I agree with the idea that modern media tends to water down not only redemption arcs but also what's good/evil. I enjoy Childe's personality and function in Genshin's narrative. I also think that Wanderer's arc is going to take a long time, and while I used to not like the guy and how he acted, I also didn't blame him too much for the anger he held on to after being defeated. We shattered everything he thought he knew and he was willing to actively erase himself out of existence to try to put things right. He couldn't, just another failure in a long line of misfortune, and I think he deserves to be bitter for a little. We can already see the cracks in his demeanor though - actions speak louder than words. He saves the traveler and crew, he saves Durin, and although he either does not have or chooses to ignore the more sentimental human emotions, he takes care of Durin because the things he does understand is being abandoned to a world that considers you a monster I hope his redemption follows the current formula, that he keeps some sting, but I do hope he softens up enough to enjoy at least the traveler's company. When you have the opportunity to rename him, one of the only existing character names he can take is actually your own, you can give him the name Aether or Lumine use in Teyvat, I feel like they should have a stronger connection in the future of the story
The unfortunate thing is that there is a very loud part of the chinese player base thats feels the writers already considers wanderers redemption complete and therefore rushed. I do think agree with you that its a longer process than that. The way he brought little durin around to fix houses and such tells me that he kinda knows what righting wrongs look like. He's also spending days under nahida, but theres not enough info. What does he feel about inazuma, does he want to make amends, or does he think its too long ago to do anything? How does he think of nahida? Is he maturing under her? Stuff like that.
I find it interesting that you put Childe in the "Redemption through Transition" - imo he kinda falls into "Escape from Consequences" instead. Him not being sorry is one thing (and is perfectly in-character), but the fact that his actions in Liyue are only mentioned again once since then (in a limited time event, to boot) kinda irks me. To be clear, I think that's less of a problem with him specifically and more with how Genshin (and Hoyo as a whole, I'd argue) does not take as much time as it should to address character arcs and consequences of characters' actions. Part of what makes consequences so enjoyable in a redemption arc is when they are applied to the character in the long term, not just once. Great video as always!
@@thebidge ...Consequences for him, I mean lol. Funny you mention that though, because the Fatui in the Chasm say that they were sent there to protect the people of Liyue (presumably from all the Abyssal beings in the Chasm). But then they pretty much got screwed by one of their own Harbingers. And it's barely addressed outside of that World Quest.
@@strigsgamingcafe I think it's kinda symbolic of the situation they are in. They are just mere pawns on the chessboard with no real pull or influence. Therefore all details that we learn about them are still largely unknown outside of us, the Traveler who is often referred to as an observer of this world.
@@cryophoenix6114 That's fair, but I mean... if everything works like this, then the events that occur in Teyvat lose weight imo. It just cements that most of what happens, good or bad, doesn't have any long-term consequences, and that the Traveler's actions ultimately don't matter at all (even in Archon Quests, to a certain extent). So yeah, I don't think I like the whole "Traveler is just an observer and nothing else" stuff.
@@strigsgamingcafe I get your point here but also, a major point in the story is that Childe was very much led on a string by Zhongli and Signora it was in their plan that he would cause a disaster and thus test Liyue, I think they avoided giving him some form of punishment for it cause it would be too much work, but also it would feel kind off unfair if Zhongli and Signora also got off scot free for what happened. But also, I don't even think he's been redeemed yet; I'd say we wait for Snezhnaya for that
Surprised you didn't mention the villain who is evil throughout the show but does "one good thing" to help the main characters before dying and it's treated like a full redemption arc
Peridot as an example is BEAUTIFUL. I remember disliking her so much until that yellow diamond TRIGGERED scene. Her character development was made really well
Childe has not repented. He has never said anything about being wrong, never. Wanderer has actually said he was sorry. Unfortunately he thought he could give up his life to bring back those he killed in Taratarsuma by entering Irminsul. When he comes out on the other side of Irminsul, he has lost everything especially his memory and Tartarasuma’s change is no one can remember his part in its tragic economic downfall. the Traveler remembers, recognizes him and takes him to Nahida. Nahida starts helping him to make his actual move toward physically trying to redeem himself with the Fox and the kitten fable. Between Nahida putting him into school and her wise concern for him, he begins to really do things to physically redeem himself. Childe was forced to fight the Narwal. There was never any kind of repentance in his character at all. Now when Wanderer has all his memories back he realizes he wants the Traveler’s recognition as well. He knows that there are those out there who may want to take his life and may not forgive him. But he IS physically trying and Simulanka shows Wanderer is even stronger (he saves 6 or 7 people at one time). Plus he has the wisdom and compassion to understand Mini Duran and gain a friend! Lumine (the traveler) is totally blown away! That is what Wanderer wants, though he is not quite able to express himself yet, he wants the traveler’s recognition!
Enjoyed the different content from the usual lore videos and I hope you'll continue exploring the format if it intrests you. A slight disappointment however was the thumbnail promising a redemption discussion about the wanderer, which the video didn't then deliver. The examples that were used were perfectly fine and well selected, and these videos definitely can branch out from genshin. But if the thumbnail has a picture of a spesific character, I'd expect that character to be relevant in the video. (and hopefully not just being used to rope in the genshin crowd)
I don't think Tartaglia was redeemed. Him and Arlecchino are notable in my opinion because they're one of the rarest types of character: a villain who doesn't need or want redemption and believes what they're doing is right but is still on amicable and even semi-friendly terms with the protagonist because, while we're enemies and we might have to kill each other in the end, there's no need to be caught up in drama over it. The situation is gray enough that it works without feeling off. With Tartaglia it's more of a friendly rivalry because we know what he's about, but we also aren't too concerned when he ends up in jail. With Arlecchino it's more pragmatic. I find it kinda fascianting from a writing standpoint. Can't remember other similar examples in media. Probably also helps that the more we learn about the world the more we understand and even agree with the Fatui's goals.
Agreed. I think it's also important to note that the traveler usually is surprised, but not happy, to see Childe whenever he shows up. More annoyed or intrigued, oh it's you again. Childe is the one who is always coming on all buddy buddy how ya doin comrade?
My favourite redemption arc is Catra. She was a villan with proper motivation, who deep down was not a true villan. She was the weakest around and she have to prove anyone else she was strong enought, and the only way to do that was by manipulation and violence. At the same time she have a bond with the good protagonist she tried but was never able to cut. And when something very very bad happen she finally accept help. Honestly one of my favourite character in many years.
I'm sry, but her redemption arc was weak, they make it as if she had no agency, the only at fault being Shadow Weaver, they forgot about her killing a very important person. Adora who seemed that she finally stopped being easy on Catra after the suffering she put her trough goes back to old Adora and risks everything to saver her because she did one good thing. The Best redemption arc is Zuko, yeah, it gets old because everyone says it, but it's true, Zuko's actions had *consequences* , with Catra we just have a "side eye" of mermaid girl.
@@HA-if2mu I mean, she did express a bit during the most recent event. I think she's still working on becoming the leader her nation needs, but she did also put in 500 years of continuous combat effort to protect her nation's right to move forward. Act 1 was the wake-up call, the time between Act 1 and Act 2 is her building up understanding and resolve, and Act 2 is her taking action to start the healing process. The way it was written and presented clearly could've been better received but it's pretty clear what they were aiming for.
The difference between Ei and her son is that we’re actually seeing Wanderer improve Inazuma characters get the short end of the stick in appearing in events,unless their name happens to be itto.if they gave us more scenes of how Ei has become an active role in her nation I would actually start believing it
@@HA-if2mu Did you even play her part two, how she regrets the bad deeds she has done and will try to change her way for the better by battling the Shogun for 500 years with unwavering will
isn't "Redemption as The End" kind of what happened with Cocolia on Star Rail? We actually can't know if the "real Cocolia" resurfaced at her end (or if any of that even remained) but if you assume she did, I think you could classify it as this kind of arc...
Another thing I find funny is when an antagonist who could defeat the main cast gets redeemed and is now canon fodder 💀 like what happened to your strenght and battle iq where did it go?
Personally Sasha Waybright from Amphibia has been one of my favorites over two years and while her redemption could’ve used some more screentime I still say it’s a pretty serviceable arc.
Sasha goes from villain to anti-hero to villain to hero. She had many relapses towards villainy before finally earning her redemption earnestly and genuinely by proving herself. She didn't instantly get forgiveness from Anne when she betrayed her (twice). Which was at the time (and still is) becoming increasingly less common in other series/cartoons unfortunately.
Throwing Gabriel Agreste in there under the "redemption to remove consequences" absolutely fitting He did nothing worthy of redemption, and everyone hated it
I mean it’s not hard to prove you wrong. Firstly, Zuko from atla exists. Secondly, Amity’s “redemption arc” is pretty weak. Her parents tell her to stop associating herself with Willow so she… stars bullying her for some reason? Her bad behavior can’t even be blamed on her parents because they didn’t tell her to do that. Then, she only redeems herself so she can be with Luz. She’s not redeeming herself for Willow, (y’know, her victim for all those years) she’s redeeming herself for Luz. She doesn’t get on good terms with Willow until after her redemption arc is already over. And said arc lasts for less than a season, it happens way too fast. Then after she’s been redeemed, Amity becomes so boring. She’s lost her claws and all she does is be Luz’s girlfriend and occasionally have family issues.
I personally think the issue people have with scara is that he shows no signs of needing or deserving one from the start. Like he's shown to be guy who was sadistic and full of nothing but anger and hate with a god complex because his mother neglected him from the start. His actions were always his own and even his quest reveals his desire to wipe out the clans was his own as well. It wasn't till sumeru did he start showing more redeeming qualities and even then it was due to a person giving in and heightening his god complex. I know for me, I personally disliked the fact he was being redeemed because at the end of the day he never regretted the actions he took until he found out he was manipulated by dottore...which is another issue I had but let's ignore it for now. Scara changes felt sudden. For two years he was a sadist with a god complex and then he was suddenly the abandoned little boy Ei left. Like he choose to make wiping out the clans his revenge no one forced that. And he didn't regret it or show a hint of remorse till he realized...he was wrong. He wasn't show to feel guilt he was shown he misjudged the target of his anger. His action for try to retcon himself also feels....hollow. He goes and loses his memories temporarily but gets them back any way cause plot. I get its suppose to show him starting a new, but that's the thing when you are redeemed you have to prove it you don't just tell yourself you have a new start, you have to do so while the world watches you and makes sure to hold you accountable for even single slip up. Forgiveness is not equal to forgetting. That;s what I personally thinks he's missing. Everyone forgot...so no one can truly forgive him for what he did. Everyone who he wronged just can't hold him accountable. He has to do it himself which unless he's show to have that screen time constantly with the memories of his actions haunting him, it doesn't feel earned because we are only told he's sorry, but we don't see his actions truly make up for it. But that's just my take on his redemption. He still has good character development though especially in the simulanka event.
@alexprus7953 I always read ei a traumatized soldier. It's less about her being redeemed and more about her learning to properly cope with the trauma. All things considered nothing about ei character changes beyond her actually listening to the people now. Ei was always under the assumption what she did was for the good of inazuma and that hasn't cha get beyond listening to others more and not running away from her duties.
I honestly don’t think any of the changes he goes through feel sudden or out of nowhere. Like, I get where you’re coming from, but from the beginning in Inazuma he’s portrayed as this bitter, spiteful kid lashing out at the world. Then in the Sumeru archon quest you get a glimpse into why he’s lashing out, and then in his story quest he starts to understand it himself. But the thing is that he doesn’t just suddenly decide he’s sorry for everything. Heck, it seems like he’s not even sorry for 70% of it, up till the end. The reason he changes is because when he unknowingly hits the reset button, the path that Dottore lead him down in his first life if replaced by the one Nahida and the Traveler open for him. It’s not that he’s a whole new person, he just gets to reexamine his past from a new perspective. I do sort of agree with you on the accountability point, though. It kind of ruins the point of a redemption arc, although there are hints he might meet up with Kazuha in the future and own up. That’s still only a minuscule fraction of all the people he’s hurt, though.
The way I see it, it wasn't just about him being wrong about what happened back in Tatarasuna that changed things. It’s the fact that the event was a highly formative experience that greatly contributed to his later mindset because of how early it happened in his life. It wasn’t just them he was angry at, he hated humanity as a whole too, and it stemmed from that second “betrayal” of his, along with the child’s death just sending him over the edge and fully convincing him not to get attached to anyone again. Finding out he was lied to would in turn force him to reconsider the beliefs he held because of that event. It would overturn the foundation that held up his hatred and distrust for so long. Especially after directly seeing one of the few people in his life who ever cared about him die and hearing what he wished for him to know in his final moments. His hatred has no point now, no basis. And that’s why his decision to attempt to change the past makes sense. The story puts emphasis on him doing it to save the friends he once cared for first and foremost, although undoing his past harm was definitely a factor as well. Heck, even long before all this goes down we have the fact that he didn’t even finish the job back when he took revenge, the Irodori festival highlighting that he stops and abandons the whole thing after encountering someone related to Niwa. He didn’t even know the truth yet and still somehow that stopped him in his tracks. (There’s also the one artifact story that just kinda shows him treating everybody like crap UNLESS they are a child or a little old lady which I think is funny lol) At any rate I’d also like to see more of that side of his story fleshed out, but considering all the foreshadowing where he says he wants the remaining descendants to know the truth about what he did n all that I have a bit of confidence it’ll come to pass. It’s why I don’t like calling Inversion of Genesis a redemption arc, at best it’s the very beginning of one, and everything that comes after contributes to it in one way or another. Maybe they’re deciding to spend time showing changes in his character and growing as a person before going to confront his past? Only time will tell.
The thing about Scara is that this is just the beginning of his redemption. His whole arc of his hatred of humanity and gods stems from betrayals that he eventually discovered was false all along, the foundation of his hatred no longer have a basis but no one would be able to quickly change after a thousand of years of misled hatred. If it took like, 100+ years for Scara to become the person he is today, he would also need a long time to be redeemed because he couldn't just immediately change who he is as a person after that long. Furina said it herself, after a thousand of years playing a mask, she is unable to truly leave that personality behind.
The problem with writing a virtuous character is that the writer must exhibit those same virtues themselves. A morally indifferent person can’t write someone who chooses constant good.
@@LycanMOON Let me put it this way. A fully good person could write both good and evil characters, but a totally evil person would be incapable of writing a good person. If a writer is lacking in certain virtues, when he tries to write a good character, that “good” character will lack the same virtue that the writer lacks. Unless the writer is painfully self-aware of their own moral defects. An indifferent or bad person wouldn’t care about their defects. Do you understand what I’m trying to say?
I would look at writing overall; book/text or media.. as in Star Trek, if you look at the Character Spock in the 1960s series- emotional in ways, etc. but still logical. It was only extremes that "brought out" his emotions whatever the situation was: happy he didn't kill his Captain but still able to "logically" recover, in the first movie (The Motion Picture) he wasn't able to remove/deny his emotions because of the antagonist V'ger [even other vulcans such as his father who did remove/deny his feelings in the follow up series The Next Generation was shown to still have them, Spock just learned to live with them]. Look at the 2009 *Star Trek can't have amymore stories unless it is rebooted! effort.. that version of Spock was not a logical but emotional person but compareable to a human trying to deny their emotions [to "recover" from depression that Vulcan was destroyed Uhura has to bring positive I love you romantic feelings, the follow up which was a rewrite if Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan had him yell emotionally in response to Kirk's death]. In the "reboot" rather than being co-crew in command of a vessel Kirk was turned into a challange/enemy that only a Uhura/Spock romance turned into a working relationship. Same can be said with Star Wars, say: the *Good guys never got a break because it was the antagonism that made the story not character- using Star Wars as example the father (Vader) becoming a friend was organic but him turning on Papaptine was almost forced in writing [if he wasn't defeated the good guys would lose, Vader was defending his son while Palatine was just removed].
@@AndrewTheMandrew531 In point yes I did.. "virtuous writing" is about knowing a character. The actors of older Star Trek had to in a way become protectors of the character they played, as in the first Not 1960s Star Trek film was supposed to include Spock (actor Leonard Nimoy) but he declined and instead took a deeper role in the next Star Trek. Star Wars is science fantasy, like 2009 Star Trek and Star Trek Discovery, all action- the characters and settings are plot, the real chacters are the CGI and action [like the tell don't show principle in Genshin but in reverse: show just enough that... but rely on tell]. Star Trek was more science fiction, real science "projected" ahead to be futuristic (unlike say the old futuristic idea that by our time we would have flying cars) was used. I said any writing, I use documentaries (media and texts), biographies (mostly non-fiction but the same idea- the one telling the story may or may not embellish the story as they wish; like making oneself more important than they were), historical accounts (some describe them like ONLY we know what it was like, nobody else can: while others actually reveal what they know and don't try to make up more than they know) or retelling of past events, pure fiction of both people and places in the real world publishing/reading scene, etc. I get that media is the point, but the same truths come across all writing including printed books. Some of the recent movies have books, the good ones take what the media showed and add to it, but some only take what the media showed and put it into words. if you want to put it into a "pure Genshin" comparison, that is possible too. Look at La Signora.. she was barely there when we first see her (no, not dress or appearance, story wise she barely fits beyond the gnosis trouble and introducing the Fatui) and even seemingly is only there before she is killed by Ei/Shogun to fit inbetween the main issue [Fatui interfering in Inazuma] and to somehow slide into the Traveler and how they survive despite the attempt to target them. Another deeper issue is how all the supposed focuses of each region actually echoes or is used in the next one; and that is part of why some theories of Genshin appear to contradict despite having the same focus or using the same data. I am a book reader, not just media lore crafter. Or portal 1 and 2, despite differences whether Glados is watching a person or robot she is no less creul despite seeming it in the 2nd game. Writers of all media use the same values, that includes newspapers and TV or film and video games.
Scaramouche and Arlecchino's sucked. I love a good redemption arc but it should come at some personal cost. Both of them just blamed Dottore/Ei/whatever else and just moved on. Terrible writing, especially Arlecchino's because you can tell they didn't know what to do with her and her lore now contradicts prior WQs and info on her. Scaramouche at least doesn't have that issue but god if he isn't insufferable. All I know is these two better not get in the way of my precious Zandik being playable like he deserves.
Arlecchino hasn't done anything really bad to be redeemed though??? She was really passive in the archon quest, actually hasn't done much at all, it's not a villain who turned good, she was always gray from the start and her relationship with the traveler hasn't changed one bit from start to finish
Scara didn’t blame Ei or Dottore for his own actions. He was only mad that Dottore manipulated him into thinking the swordsmen betrayed him. But he accepts his own actions ridding of the swordsmen as his own and wants to make up for it by having traveler tell them who he is. And he just hates Ei for abandoning him, he doesn’t blame her for his actions. Ei kind of blames herself in her cn voiceline where she thinks she was apart of his evil awakening and whatnot (which she was so she’s not wrong). But Wanderer never blamed her, just hated her actions towards him.
@@DarkSeraph Yep, definitely, this is Genshin we're talking about Not Hsr So Hoyo definitely whitewash Dottore (clone) any time in the future to increase their "product" Sale
I agree with the idea that modern media tends to water down not only redemption arcs but also what's good/evil.
I enjoy Childe's personality and function in Genshin's narrative. I also think that Wanderer's arc is going to take a long time, and while I used to not like the guy and how he acted, I also didn't blame him too much for the anger he held on to after being defeated. We shattered everything he thought he knew and he was willing to actively erase himself out of existence to try to put things right. He couldn't, just another failure in a long line of misfortune, and I think he deserves to be bitter for a little.
We can already see the cracks in his demeanor though - actions speak louder than words. He saves the traveler and crew, he saves Durin, and although he either does not have or chooses to ignore the more sentimental human emotions, he takes care of Durin because the things he does understand is being abandoned to a world that considers you a monster
I hope his redemption follows the current formula, that he keeps some sting, but I do hope he softens up enough to enjoy at least the traveler's company. When you have the opportunity to rename him, one of the only existing character names he can take is actually your own, you can give him the name Aether or Lumine use in Teyvat, I feel like they should have a stronger connection in the future of the story
Yeah. Wanderer is growing everytime we meet him. It does sell his redemption more.
Wanderer gaining his vision was the beginning of his redemption arc
I also think Tartar sauce is going to have a “what have I done?” moment
The unfortunate thing is that there is a very loud part of the chinese player base thats feels the writers already considers wanderers redemption complete and therefore rushed. I do think agree with you that its a longer process than that.
The way he brought little durin around to fix houses and such tells me that he kinda knows what righting wrongs look like.
He's also spending days under nahida, but theres not enough info. What does he feel about inazuma, does he want to make amends, or does he think its too long ago to do anything? How does he think of nahida? Is he maturing under her? Stuff like that.
I find it interesting that you put Childe in the "Redemption through Transition" - imo he kinda falls into "Escape from Consequences" instead. Him not being sorry is one thing (and is perfectly in-character), but the fact that his actions in Liyue are only mentioned again once since then (in a limited time event, to boot) kinda irks me.
To be clear, I think that's less of a problem with him specifically and more with how Genshin (and Hoyo as a whole, I'd argue) does not take as much time as it should to address character arcs and consequences of characters' actions. Part of what makes consequences so enjoyable in a redemption arc is when they are applied to the character in the long term, not just once.
Great video as always!
Oh it DID have a a lot of consequence, after what he did, the Fatui in the Chasm were unable to leave, thus, pretty much died
@@thebidge ...Consequences for him, I mean lol.
Funny you mention that though, because the Fatui in the Chasm say that they were sent there to protect the people of Liyue (presumably from all the Abyssal beings in the Chasm). But then they pretty much got screwed by one of their own Harbingers. And it's barely addressed outside of that World Quest.
@@strigsgamingcafe I think it's kinda symbolic of the situation they are in. They are just mere pawns on the chessboard with no real pull or influence. Therefore all details that we learn about them are still largely unknown outside of us, the Traveler who is often referred to as an observer of this world.
@@cryophoenix6114 That's fair, but I mean... if everything works like this, then the events that occur in Teyvat lose weight imo. It just cements that most of what happens, good or bad, doesn't have any long-term consequences, and that the Traveler's actions ultimately don't matter at all (even in Archon Quests, to a certain extent).
So yeah, I don't think I like the whole "Traveler is just an observer and nothing else" stuff.
@@strigsgamingcafe I get your point here but also, a major point in the story is that Childe was very much led on a string by Zhongli and Signora it was in their plan that he would cause a disaster and thus test Liyue, I think they avoided giving him some form of punishment for it cause it would be too much work, but also it would feel kind off unfair if Zhongli and Signora also got off scot free for what happened. But also, I don't even think he's been redeemed yet; I'd say we wait for Snezhnaya for that
Surprised you didn't mention the villain who is evil throughout the show but does "one good thing" to help the main characters before dying and it's treated like a full redemption arc
Reminds me of-
EEEEVERY NIGHT IS THE DREAM BUT THE DAYYY, RELENTLESSLY... KEEPS ME AWAAAAKE
Just to clarify, are we talking about Catra, or am I misunderstanding? :)
@@shanedoesyoutube8001 We may hate him, but we also understand...nahhh.
Wait till Sunday get one when IPC colonize penacony
Meanwhile Cocolia still die in every universe
@@samihaislam7764 dont forget hawk moth too🤧 goddamn i didnt realize in how many shows they do this move like its lowkey concerning....
Peridot as an example is BEAUTIFUL. I remember disliking her so much until that yellow diamond TRIGGERED scene. Her character development was made really well
I remember religiously watching SU when it aired. Peridot’s arc was 10/10.
Childe has not repented. He has never said anything about being wrong, never. Wanderer has actually said he was sorry. Unfortunately he thought he could give up his life to bring back those he killed in Taratarsuma by entering Irminsul. When he comes out on the other side of Irminsul, he has lost everything especially his memory and Tartarasuma’s change is no one can remember his part in its tragic economic downfall. the Traveler remembers, recognizes him and takes him to Nahida. Nahida starts helping him to make his actual move toward physically trying to redeem himself with the Fox and the kitten fable. Between Nahida putting him into school and her wise concern for him, he begins to really do things to physically redeem himself. Childe was forced to fight the Narwal. There was never any kind of repentance in his character at all. Now when Wanderer has all his memories back he realizes he wants the Traveler’s recognition as well. He knows that there are those out there who may want to take his life and may not forgive him. But he IS physically trying and Simulanka shows Wanderer is even stronger (he saves 6 or 7 people at one time). Plus he has the wisdom and compassion to understand Mini Duran and gain a friend! Lumine (the traveler) is totally blown away! That is what Wanderer wants, though he is not quite able to express himself yet, he wants the traveler’s recognition!
when did wanderer ever say sorry
12:45 Doki Doki Literature Club music in the background is an interesting choice 😂
Enjoyed the different content from the usual lore videos and I hope you'll continue exploring the format if it intrests you.
A slight disappointment however was the thumbnail promising a redemption discussion about the wanderer, which the video didn't then deliver. The examples that were used were perfectly fine and well selected, and these videos definitely can branch out from genshin. But if the thumbnail has a picture of a spesific character, I'd expect that character to be relevant in the video. (and hopefully not just being used to rope in the genshin crowd)
I don't think Tartaglia was redeemed. Him and Arlecchino are notable in my opinion because they're one of the rarest types of character: a villain who doesn't need or want redemption and believes what they're doing is right but is still on amicable and even semi-friendly terms with the protagonist because, while we're enemies and we might have to kill each other in the end, there's no need to be caught up in drama over it. The situation is gray enough that it works without feeling off. With Tartaglia it's more of a friendly rivalry because we know what he's about, but we also aren't too concerned when he ends up in jail. With Arlecchino it's more pragmatic. I find it kinda fascianting from a writing standpoint. Can't remember other similar examples in media.
Probably also helps that the more we learn about the world the more we understand and even agree with the Fatui's goals.
Agreed. I think it's also important to note that the traveler usually is surprised, but not happy, to see Childe whenever he shows up. More annoyed or intrigued, oh it's you again.
Childe is the one who is always coming on all buddy buddy how ya doin comrade?
I feel like hoyo actually learned their lesson after eis very rushed redemption arc because their actually taking their time with scara ngl
Should have had us date her until we end up unknowingly showing her the battle field full of red flowers.
I liked ei’s redemption more than the wanderers tbh
My favourite redemption arc is Catra.
She was a villan with proper motivation, who deep down was not a true villan. She was the weakest around and she have to prove anyone else she was strong enought, and the only way to do that was by manipulation and violence.
At the same time she have a bond with the good protagonist she tried but was never able to cut.
And when something very very bad happen she finally accept help.
Honestly one of my favourite character in many years.
I'm sry, but her redemption arc was weak, they make it as if she had no agency, the only at fault being Shadow Weaver, they forgot about her killing a very important person. Adora who seemed that she finally stopped being easy on Catra after the suffering she put her trough goes back to old Adora and risks everything to saver her because she did one good thing.
The Best redemption arc is Zuko, yeah, it gets old because everyone says it, but it's true, Zuko's actions had *consequences* , with Catra we just have a "side eye" of mermaid girl.
empic phrases of history "YOu CLOOOD" hahahaha
Personal favorite redemption arc was Impmon in Digimon Tamers
Probably an unpopular opnion but i really like ei's redemption in her second story quest.
@@nicolasrocha9429 the redemption was In the first and it was the worst written redemption imaginable
What redemption? There wasn't really any....ei never showed sorrow or empathy for her actions or those who suffered
@@HA-if2mu I mean, she did express a bit during the most recent event. I think she's still working on becoming the leader her nation needs, but she did also put in 500 years of continuous combat effort to protect her nation's right to move forward.
Act 1 was the wake-up call, the time between Act 1 and Act 2 is her building up understanding and resolve, and Act 2 is her taking action to start the healing process. The way it was written and presented clearly could've been better received but it's pretty clear what they were aiming for.
The difference between Ei and her son is that we’re actually seeing Wanderer improve
Inazuma characters get the short end of the stick in appearing in events,unless their name happens to be itto.if they gave us more scenes of how Ei has become an active role in her nation I would actually start believing it
@@HA-if2mu Did you even play her part two, how she regrets the bad deeds she has done and will try to change her way for the better by battling the Shogun for 500 years with unwavering will
isn't "Redemption as The End" kind of what happened with Cocolia on Star Rail? We actually can't know if the "real Cocolia" resurfaced at her end (or if any of that even remained) but if you assume she did, I think you could classify it as this kind of arc...
Nice Doki Doki background music.
I have learnt much, thank you for teaching us villain writing 💖💖
Another thing I find funny is when an antagonist who could defeat the main cast gets redeemed and is now canon fodder 💀 like what happened to your strenght and battle iq where did it go?
They became a playable character
Reminds of Jellal from Fairy Tail. His growth stops after he's redeemed.
Personally Sasha Waybright from Amphibia has been one of my favorites over two years and while her redemption could’ve used some more screentime I still say it’s a pretty serviceable arc.
Sasha goes from villain to anti-hero to villain to hero. She had many relapses towards villainy before finally earning her redemption earnestly and genuinely by proving herself. She didn't instantly get forgiveness from Anne when she betrayed her (twice). Which was at the time (and still is) becoming increasingly less common in other series/cartoons unfortunately.
This was such a well made video, im shcoked it has so little views
Otto from hi3 has the most well written redemption
Soooooo what are your thoughts on Wanderer specifically? I know we don’t know enough of this arc but are you interested in where it’s going?
I can fix him, gang 😓🤪 /lh
Peridot and scars are my favorite villain to hero type
Are you playing wuthering waves ?
Throwing Gabriel Agreste in there under the "redemption to remove consequences" absolutely fitting
He did nothing worthy of redemption, and everyone hated it
Yeh, I don't think becomes the best "Toy Seller" will help him kick some ass instead of *getting ass kicked* every single time he showed up 🤡
Amity from The Owl House is best arc... prove me wrong... it won't happen
She was never a "villan". But lumity is cute.
I mean it’s not hard to prove you wrong. Firstly, Zuko from atla exists. Secondly, Amity’s “redemption arc” is pretty weak.
Her parents tell her to stop associating herself with Willow so she… stars bullying her for some reason? Her bad behavior can’t even be blamed on her parents because they didn’t tell her to do that.
Then, she only redeems herself so she can be with Luz. She’s not redeeming herself for Willow, (y’know, her victim for all those years) she’s redeeming herself for Luz. She doesn’t get on good terms with Willow until after her redemption arc is already over. And said arc lasts for less than a season, it happens way too fast. Then after she’s been redeemed, Amity becomes so boring. She’s lost her claws and all she does is be Luz’s girlfriend and occasionally have family issues.
Catra is one of the worst examples of this in my opinion.
OMG YIU WATCHED STEVEN UNIVERSE!??
I personally think the issue people have with scara is that he shows no signs of needing or deserving one from the start. Like he's shown to be guy who was sadistic and full of nothing but anger and hate with a god complex because his mother neglected him from the start. His actions were always his own and even his quest reveals his desire to wipe out the clans was his own as well.
It wasn't till sumeru did he start showing more redeeming qualities and even then it was due to a person giving in and heightening his god complex.
I know for me, I personally disliked the fact he was being redeemed because at the end of the day he never regretted the actions he took until he found out he was manipulated by dottore...which is another issue I had but let's ignore it for now. Scara changes felt sudden. For two years he was a sadist with a god complex and then he was suddenly the abandoned little boy Ei left.
Like he choose to make wiping out the clans his revenge no one forced that. And he didn't regret it or show a hint of remorse till he realized...he was wrong. He wasn't show to feel guilt he was shown he misjudged the target of his anger.
His action for try to retcon himself also feels....hollow. He goes and loses his memories temporarily but gets them back any way cause plot. I get its suppose to show him starting a new, but that's the thing when you are redeemed you have to prove it you don't just tell yourself you have a new start, you have to do so while the world watches you and makes sure to hold you accountable for even single slip up. Forgiveness is not equal to forgetting.
That;s what I personally thinks he's missing. Everyone forgot...so no one can truly forgive him for what he did. Everyone who he wronged just can't hold him accountable. He has to do it himself which unless he's show to have that screen time constantly with the memories of his actions haunting him, it doesn't feel earned because we are only told he's sorry, but we don't see his actions truly make up for it.
But that's just my take on his redemption.
He still has good character development though especially in the simulanka event.
I think Ei's redemption was even worse. It was very sudden and made her less interesting as a character for a while
@alexprus7953 I always read ei a traumatized soldier.
It's less about her being redeemed and more about her learning to properly cope with the trauma.
All things considered nothing about ei character changes beyond her actually listening to the people now.
Ei was always under the assumption what she did was for the good of inazuma and that hasn't cha get beyond listening to others more and not running away from her duties.
I honestly don’t think any of the changes he goes through feel sudden or out of nowhere. Like, I get where you’re coming from, but from the beginning in Inazuma he’s portrayed as this bitter, spiteful kid lashing out at the world.
Then in the Sumeru archon quest you get a glimpse into why he’s lashing out, and then in his story quest he starts to understand it himself. But the thing is that he doesn’t just suddenly decide he’s sorry for everything. Heck, it seems like he’s not even sorry for 70% of it, up till the end.
The reason he changes is because when he unknowingly hits the reset button, the path that Dottore lead him down in his first life if replaced by the one Nahida and the Traveler open for him. It’s not that he’s a whole new person, he just gets to reexamine his past from a new perspective.
I do sort of agree with you on the accountability point, though. It kind of ruins the point of a redemption arc, although there are hints he might meet up with Kazuha in the future and own up. That’s still only a minuscule fraction of all the people he’s hurt, though.
The way I see it, it wasn't just about him being wrong about what happened back in Tatarasuna that changed things. It’s the fact that the event was a highly formative experience that greatly contributed to his later mindset because of how early it happened in his life. It wasn’t just them he was angry at, he hated humanity as a whole too, and it stemmed from that second “betrayal” of his, along with the child’s death just sending him over the edge and fully convincing him not to get attached to anyone again. Finding out he was lied to would in turn force him to reconsider the beliefs he held because of that event. It would overturn the foundation that held up his hatred and distrust for so long. Especially after directly seeing one of the few people in his life who ever cared about him die and hearing what he wished for him to know in his final moments. His hatred has no point now, no basis.
And that’s why his decision to attempt to change the past makes sense. The story puts emphasis on him doing it to save the friends he once cared for first and foremost, although undoing his past harm was definitely a factor as well. Heck, even long before all this goes down we have the fact that he didn’t even finish the job back when he took revenge, the Irodori festival highlighting that he stops and abandons the whole thing after encountering someone related to Niwa. He didn’t even know the truth yet and still somehow that stopped him in his tracks. (There’s also the one artifact story that just kinda shows him treating everybody like crap UNLESS they are a child or a little old lady which I think is funny lol)
At any rate I’d also like to see more of that side of his story fleshed out, but considering all the foreshadowing where he says he wants the remaining descendants to know the truth about what he did n all that I have a bit of confidence it’ll come to pass. It’s why I don’t like calling Inversion of Genesis a redemption arc, at best it’s the very beginning of one, and everything that comes after contributes to it in one way or another. Maybe they’re deciding to spend time showing changes in his character and growing as a person before going to confront his past? Only time will tell.
The thing about Scara is that this is just the beginning of his redemption. His whole arc of his hatred of humanity and gods stems from betrayals that he eventually discovered was false all along, the foundation of his hatred no longer have a basis but no one would be able to quickly change after a thousand of years of misled hatred.
If it took like, 100+ years for Scara to become the person he is today, he would also need a long time to be redeemed because he couldn't just immediately change who he is as a person after that long.
Furina said it herself, after a thousand of years playing a mask, she is unable to truly leave that personality behind.
The problem with writing a virtuous character is that the writer must exhibit those same virtues themselves.
A morally indifferent person can’t write someone who chooses constant good.
What are you suggesting,that a writer can’t write a character that is any different from them or their beliefs?
It makes little to no sense
@@LycanMOON Let me put it this way. A fully good person could write both good and evil characters, but a totally evil person would be incapable of writing a good person.
If a writer is lacking in certain virtues, when he tries to write a good character, that “good” character will lack the same virtue that the writer lacks. Unless the writer is painfully self-aware of their own moral defects.
An indifferent or bad person wouldn’t care about their defects.
Do you understand what I’m trying to say?
I would look at writing overall; book/text or media.. as in Star Trek, if you look at the Character Spock in the 1960s series- emotional in ways, etc. but still logical. It was only extremes that "brought out" his emotions whatever the situation was: happy he didn't kill his Captain but still able to "logically" recover, in the first movie (The Motion Picture) he wasn't able to remove/deny his emotions because of the antagonist V'ger [even other vulcans such as his father who did remove/deny his feelings in the follow up series The Next Generation was shown to still have them, Spock just learned to live with them]. Look at the 2009 *Star Trek can't have amymore stories unless it is rebooted! effort.. that version of Spock was not a logical but emotional person but compareable to a human trying to deny their emotions [to "recover" from depression that Vulcan was destroyed Uhura has to bring positive I love you romantic feelings, the follow up which was a rewrite if Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan had him yell emotionally in response to Kirk's death]. In the "reboot" rather than being co-crew in command of a vessel Kirk was turned into a challange/enemy that only a Uhura/Spock romance turned into a working relationship. Same can be said with Star Wars, say: the *Good guys never got a break because it was the antagonism that made the story not character- using Star Wars as example the father (Vader) becoming a friend was organic but him turning on Papaptine was almost forced in writing [if he wasn't defeated the good guys would lose, Vader was defending his son while Palatine was just removed].
@@lehuakimberly6166 Did you respond to the right comment, my friend?
@@AndrewTheMandrew531 In point yes I did.. "virtuous writing" is about knowing a character. The actors of older Star Trek had to in a way become protectors of the character they played, as in the first Not 1960s Star Trek film was supposed to include Spock (actor Leonard Nimoy) but he declined and instead took a deeper role in the next Star Trek. Star Wars is science fantasy, like 2009 Star Trek and Star Trek Discovery, all action- the characters and settings are plot, the real chacters are the CGI and action [like the tell don't show principle in Genshin but in reverse: show just enough that... but rely on tell]. Star Trek was more science fiction, real science "projected" ahead to be futuristic (unlike say the old futuristic idea that by our time we would have flying cars) was used. I said any writing, I use documentaries (media and texts), biographies (mostly non-fiction but the same idea- the one telling the story may or may not embellish the story as they wish; like making oneself more important than they were), historical accounts (some describe them like ONLY we know what it was like, nobody else can: while others actually reveal what they know and don't try to make up more than they know) or retelling of past events, pure fiction of both people and places in the real world publishing/reading scene, etc. I get that media is the point, but the same truths come across all writing including printed books. Some of the recent movies have books, the good ones take what the media showed and add to it, but some only take what the media showed and put it into words. if you want to put it into a "pure Genshin" comparison, that is possible too. Look at La Signora.. she was barely there when we first see her (no, not dress or appearance, story wise she barely fits beyond the gnosis trouble and introducing the Fatui) and even seemingly is only there before she is killed by Ei/Shogun to fit inbetween the main issue [Fatui interfering in Inazuma] and to somehow slide into the Traveler and how they survive despite the attempt to target them. Another deeper issue is how all the supposed focuses of each region actually echoes or is used in the next one; and that is part of why some theories of Genshin appear to contradict despite having the same focus or using the same data. I am a book reader, not just media lore crafter. Or portal 1 and 2, despite differences whether Glados is watching a person or robot she is no less creul despite seeming it in the 2nd game. Writers of all media use the same values, that includes newspapers and TV or film and video games.
The Genshin writing team is not going to get me to care about Scaramouche.
Same or any of the Harbingers to be honest.
Same
I still think he's a brat
@@DarkSeraph You sure about that 🤡
Same. He's by far my least favorite character, I hate him so much
@@DarkSeraph You're not just a clown you're the whole circus.
Scaramouche and Arlecchino's sucked.
I love a good redemption arc but it should come at some personal cost. Both of them just blamed Dottore/Ei/whatever else and just moved on. Terrible writing, especially Arlecchino's because you can tell they didn't know what to do with her and her lore now contradicts prior WQs and info on her.
Scaramouche at least doesn't have that issue but god if he isn't insufferable. All I know is these two better not get in the way of my precious Zandik being playable like he deserves.
Arlecchino hasn't done anything really bad to be redeemed though??? She was really passive in the archon quest, actually hasn't done much at all, it's not a villain who turned good, she was always gray from the start and her relationship with the traveler hasn't changed one bit from start to finish
Scara didn’t blame Ei or Dottore for his own actions. He was only mad that Dottore manipulated him into thinking the swordsmen betrayed him. But he accepts his own actions ridding of the swordsmen as his own and wants to make up for it by having traveler tell them who he is. And he just hates Ei for abandoning him, he doesn’t blame her for his actions. Ei kind of blames herself in her cn voiceline where she thinks she was apart of his evil awakening and whatnot (which she was so she’s not wrong). But Wanderer never blamed her, just hated her actions towards him.
I pray Hoyoverse wont give Dottore a redemption arc just because he has mentally questionable fanbase who wont stop barking "I CAN FIX HIM! UMU" 🥲
It's probably gonna happen anyway cause hoyo loves money instead of conmitting to actually evil characters.
@@DarkSeraph Yep, definitely, this is Genshin we're talking about Not Hsr
So Hoyo definitely whitewash Dottore (clone) any time in the future to increase their "product" Sale
Don't ask why Dottore Simp/ships exist
Just Accept it
Cuz We live in a society
it's gonna happen they gave us a hint back in 3.3, also i don't want to fix him, he's perfect the way he is