Hand-Laying Carbon Fiber
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- Опубликовано: 26 мар 2010
- The interior is reinforced with carbon fiber. Carbon fiber wets out in the same manner as fiberglass, however it is harder to tell when you have done it right. Unlike 'glass which starts white and becomes clear upon saturation, CF is black and stays black. Since this boat is wood, enough epoxy must be applied to saturate the cloth and soak into the wood. The indications you have to work with are the color and reflectivity of the fabric and how it handles. For example if the cloth does not stay down or bubbles up the wood behind it is likely still dry. If the cloth is deep black with little reflectivity, it is likely under-saturated.
For more Information about this technique visit www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guill...
This series of videos shows the steps of building a wooden kayak using the "strip-planked" or "strip-built" method. This particular boat is a double paddle canoe design called the microBootlegger by Guillemot Kayaks. More information about the boat is available at www.guillemot-kayaks.com . Further information about the building techniques shown in these videos is available in the book "Building Strip-Planked Boats": building-strip-planked-boats.com/ For more videos in this series please visit: www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guill... 
Хобби
Ignore the negative comments, I always work to music and if other people don’t like it well to bad for them. You are a master of the craft and please keep sharing
Excellent video loved the music. Thank you, sir.
Great tunes, Beautiful boat!!
Good Demonstration, Thanks.
Kudos on the Thad Jones soundtrack. I also use Jazz sound tracks in our demonstration videos; our company manufactures epoxy resin systems as well. It is good to come across videos like yours with the same cool music format. Bravo!
Great work!
great video, you got some great technique. also dig the music, thanks for uploading.
That music, indeed, is insanely brilliant; I wonder what that was . . . . . Miles Davis, perhaps ?
Great Work
@DanFrederiksen The outside had previously been laminated with fiberglass cloth. There is only one layer of CF on the inside. This is more than enough.
great video
Nick Schade Спасибо Вам за труд, за науку. У русских есть пословица: терпенье и труд всё перетрут. Вы редкий мастер своего дела.
@aSheeple It is fine to combine CF with a flexible core material.
True up to a point, but I wouldnt make airplane wings or even expensive boats withoutmaking sure I was with in the flexural/strength window based on the loadings of the part being made. Carbon fiber works better with Kevlar as a composite giving a greater area to that window. Not saying that many parts canot be made that way but its wasting the true utility of the carbon fiber. There are more costly combinations, but they offer far better performance.
Brilliant videos. I'm looking at giving a composite bicycle frame a go and videos like yours are very helpful / inspirational so thanks
On a different note, what's the music?
Very nice work, is that a very flexible rubber skimmer you are using to spread the resin evenly? Just wondering as I would have thought it would distort the weave
My standard squeegee is a plastic "Bondo" applicator: amzn.to/2jj6wSN. It is flexible enough to not mess up the cloth.
@tommyyap87 I'm using MAS epoxies.
How long did the carbon fiber process take from beginning to end? Have you had good/bad experiences from any particular carbon fiber supplier(s)? I have a project I plan on tackling soon - and have been looking at a few suppliers and was wondering if there is a huge difference between quality of products (because pricing varies a lot!). Thanks!
Very nice work. I have seen people put on a base coat first on the wood or plastic to give the cf something to stick to. Just let it dry to a tack
nice music! i'd love to handlay Cf whilst listening to this!
Just some questions:
1. Can fiberglass expoy resin work with carbon fiber cloth? If not, what is the correct type?
2. Would applying the adhesive onto the wood first be an ideal for a fully saturated area? My project involves some what of a small wood area.
So interesting! Did you use pre-preg fibres or not? Which CF have you applied? 200gr/mq?
This kind of deal on a kayak is mostly harmless overbuilding. When the Gougeons (who invented the SNAME hydro test for panels) tested their laminate for their Formula 40 trimaran, they found linear 6 oz (inside and out), 90 degrees to the 3/8" red cedar hull material that they used, tested out as superior to 1" D-Fir, marine ply. So if you consider one often uses 6 oz glass inside and out on 1/4" red cedar in canoes and kayaks, you can see how massively the carbon plays with the outcomes.
However, in this case, the carbon appears to be cloth which means that probably much of it is being wasted and improperly aligned with the wood, but who cares, it is going to come out mega stout.
The pathway to improving these boats is to do better alignment of wood fiber, ditch the football approach, and use computer design and CNC to cutomize the designs, at a technical level there is no reason to do hand boats that don't fit the client as though one was building ready to wear suits with old world tailors.
Wondering why you did not paint the wood with resin first (or did you?) Was there just not time for it with a hand layup this big? Or were you worried about the cloth sticking before you had it set in place correctly?
What weight cloth did you use and is this a twill that will form to curves easily?
I wonder if a light coat of spray adhesive, like 3M77, on surface of boat would hold cloth in place while resin is applied. Adhesive would probably dissolve from chemicals in glue as its applied so it doesnt interfere with lamination.
Nice bebop, what tune, who is playing?
do you notice any delamination between your carbon fiber layer and your glass or wood layers? ive wondered if carbon is too brittle to laminate well over a more flexible material.
If I only did one side of the boat, is it more important to apply CF to the deck or to the hull?
Thank u sir,
I'm happy to see you're wearing a respirator. Is it for protection against particulates or solvent fumes (or both)?
the fumes from epoxy can be more harmful than that of polyester resins and u can't smell them like polyester resin
Hi, you posted this video a few years ago, so I was curious if you had any issues with the carbon fibre delaminating from the wood because of the wood expanding differently to the cf. I don't see many objects made from wood and CF and I thought that might be the reason? Thanks
No that is not a problem if you follow normal wood epoxy protocols. The biggest problem with building with wood and carbon is that carbon is massively stronger than wood. People often slap some carbon into a load area, figure that should help, when what they really did was to assume all the loads on the carbon, and it will have to break before it shares load with the wood. If they didn't add carbon to the level that will carry the whole load, the carbon snaps, and creates a stress riser that will break the wood.
Issues of the kind you are mentioning will occur with glass as much as carbon.
Carbon has been used with wood for a long time, but the evolution has been slow. For instance in archery, arrows of carbon are the high tech choice, but wood carbon composite limbs where the carbon carries the load took for ever to arrive, and have only become common in the last 10 years. While with say fishing rods, carbon took over in the 70s. But again, this was due to not understanding the material, not the issues you raise.
Where can I souce carbonfiber reasonably. I would like to make a few parts for myself
Are you letting one section of fabric harden before moving on to surrounding areas?
Did you trim the excess carbon fiber before or after the epoxy cured?
It is easiest to trim the fabric after the resin has set up a bit, but before it is fully hardened. A "leathery" feel is about right.
Thanks!
⭐Did you also do the bottom of the boat for increased durability..?
The inside of both the deck and the hull had carbon fiber, the outside of both were reinforced with fiberglass fabric because it is clear, allowing the wood to show.
@Diostelibre The music was really good.
What epoxy resin did you use?
@guillemot12 Thanks...can you find it online??i can't seem to find it anywhere in my country.
can you carbon fiber over fiber glass such as a dune buggy body
Awesome work! Do you think it would be possible to have a skiff upside down and lay carbon fiber over it and make a whole new carbon fiber boat?
Yes, it is possible to use an existing boat as mold to make a new boat out of fiberglass or carbon fiber. It may not be the best way, but it can be done.
Right on! Thank you
@@andrewrlj2018 there is an sg model that is wrapped cf.
@@fudozanokamae2579 awesome!!!
What weave do you use?
Where do you buy the carbon fiber rolls?
+sean O'Connell You can buy from us; cacomposites.com
And what about bottom part of the kayak? Kayak is made of 2 wooden core parts?
You have the CB, now create the Trifoiler, the worlds fastest commercial sailboat and set a new speed record!
I would and i will :)
What do you do with the fiber you cut off?
Great video but I don't really understand why you used CF in this particular application. Since it's not a high-performance boat why does it require this level of stiffness?
Steal rollers work great.
Good, clear video. Really shows how much care you take to make it right. To: @mikebmix, perhaps you could learn how to form clear thoughts before you send them out to the world. Hint: bad grammar, spelling and word choice really don't help your rant.
sorry i am a newbie her! after the fabric dries it snaps out of the wood or it stays there?
The fabric and the wood are both part of the finished product. The epoxy adheres the the fabric to the wood.
Thanks Nick!
Will the same method work if I want to line ABS plastic? Do I use different methods or materials?
Evil Empire of Florida I have no experience with ABS so I can not help you.
+Evil Empire of Florida ABS is not a suitable core. There are "plastic" cores that have a poly scrim applied to the surface, but are only really suitable for secondary applications. Like a wall or a door on a yacht for example. Suitable cores would be balsa, Nida core, phenolic honeycomb, marine plywood, or any one of a million foam cores. The cedar Mr. Schade uses makes a boat stronger than logic dictates.
Oooo musiquinha duida hein!!!!!
As far as telling if it's saturated or not, could you add a UV phosphorescent to the resin so that you could tell if you had gone over it? No need to work in a UV room, just wave a UV light over it.
What was on your CF? CF is a horror to attach to polymers, hence it often comes 'prepregged' i.e. co-extruded with a polymer layer that is adhesive to the polymer the CF is to be laid in.
how many ounces carbon fibre is that?
What's the weight of that fabric? It looked incredibly stiff.
Why don t you use a vacuum bag for the curing?
Nikosss31 The hand layup method shown in this video is much less complex than vacuum bagging. The hand layup may not be as good structurally but it is still a nice layup that does not require special tools.
I have another video showing the process using vacuum infusion. ruclips.net/video/hEyF5KOkhUY/видео.html
methabol injection inti my 4 cylinder intaje
Nick Schade Assuming you get proper wet out and contact, hand lay-up is not structurally less than vac. Vac has pressure to ensure great bond to substrate, and it allows one to get a "better" resin fiber ratio, this will give about the same tensile strength in elongation, more in flex, but it will normally be less stiff, simply because the resultant laminate is thinner. Sure on spec vac bagging wins, but it those concerns are normally not what drives a layup on wood. Wood is often mostly about stiffness, or tensile strength in elongation (the latter mostly for spars).
The Gougeons led the way on combining carbon and wood. You really have to know what and why you are doing it, structures can often end up worse (not in your application). You can't just say, "hey, you didn't vac bag, your result must be worse." They knew about bagging and used it with wood, but mostly hand laid up carbon, as far as I know. Their cheap lumberyard trimarans consistently beat multi million dollar mega boats in the conditions they designed them for.
how thick is the carbon fiber being used
Basically it only comes in a few sizes, and you don't need cloth as heavy as glass. Glass is normally 4-6 oz for boats this size, and carbon weighs less for the same dimension, and the same dimension is many times stronger. So you cam work it out at an egineering level, or just jump to the obvious conclusion from examining a catalog and trying a few samples.
Then again, lets say you wanted to do this. Why? You have to have some theory as to why you are doing this, and therefore what material and dimension you want to use.
Do you have any scraps I can buy from you?
what resing is used in carbon fiber??
+Oswaldo Castillo You can use pretty much whatever resin you want, although laminating epoxy works best. Any epoxy will make a great product but if you use a good quality one with a slow hardener you will get a much stronger product overall. Just use something like West Systems epoxy or Norglass.
Wher can i buy carbon fiber?
only the one layer and only on the inside?
no but i can buy it if i want to
You have skills, that said I would much rather listen to you speak about your techniques, what to watch out for, what tasks to accomplish, etc.. 1000% more than the horn solo, or any music for that matter. Share your KNOWLEDGE, along with the videos. Thank you.
Aye,,, had to mute to watch this vid...Felt Like Snoopy and Woodstock were gonna pop in any minute.
You make this look so easy. It is not. I use West System and the fiber I used looks to be of similar weight as yours. The bubbles are relentless! Corners and ends are almost impossible to deal with. Unfortunately the epoxy tends to adhere better to the Fiber than anything else. Meaning it pulls and shifts so it is a constant fight because every time it pulls it creates a bubble somewhere. I see you let the fiber hang over the edge to be trimmed later. I do that and the weight of the fabric tends to lift it off the edge about 1/4 of an inch down. Creating an impossible to deal with bubble across the entire top. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Im not ready to give up but until I have more information im not wasting any more money on this.
larry haley laying CF is not much different from glass. It requires more resin because the cloth is less dense, thus absorbing more resin than the same weight of glass. Working in a warm space with falling temperatures makes a big difference.
Ok makes alot of sense. It's cold here and I can't get my garage real warm.
larry haley your better of using prepress carbon fibre, no bubbles what so ever
+t800 How would you do that in this application? It has no mold and the cedar would gas like mad when put in the oven to cure. Pre-preg has a ton of uses and a ton of reasons not to use it as well. Not to mention the short shelf life and insane cost that makes a boat cost to much to build.
this is a good video.
but why is there so many dislikes? someone try to sabo?
no peel ply , why not?
I would have used black fiberglass in this application and saved you about 30.00 linear yard in cost, the carbon fiber is really only cosmetic in this application it seems?
Hensley Composites, LLC
Where's the finish product???
Holy shit, background music to run away. I'm insane now!
Also wetting out the wood would have helped too.
GOD! That fuckin' music.....
Why would you use carbon with glass? it makes no sense, chalk and cheese, also if you wet the surface out before laying the cloth it will stop it dancing around and give far better saturation. Just a thought...
You'll need to learn about combining materials with modulii of elasticity. Putting the carbon on the inside means it will take more of the load, being way stiffer than the other two materials. Structurally not a good idea. If you get a load large enough to flex the rest of the boat, the carbon will simply crack. Either use all carbon, or an equal carbon/wood/carbon sandwich.
Only if he was laying it on a green layer of epoxy already on his core. You will not that is not the case here. Besides, prewetting only really works on large 2d shapes without 3 directions of warp. 3d shapes like what is laid up here is a horror doing as you suggest
Carbon fiber and fiberglass have very different flexural strengths, carbon is much less than fiberglass. if your project will flex beyond that strength then it will shear the fiber layer and leave you with only the fiberglass. If you really want to mix composites for strength and not looks then put the fiber first, still a poor choice, best to keep fiber on fiber as it gives you the best strength weight combination.
The glass and CF are separated by wood. The composite is more complex than you outline, but yes, it is possible to break it.
That gotta cost..
that guy blowing that stupid wistle ruin it all
Why not just build an entire kayak out of carbon fiber by just wrapping a styrofoam mold in it? I was considering this myself... why is it a bad idea?
The process you describe is an established manner to make a kayak. It certainly works. But it is not a way to make a light kayak unless you remove all the foam after it is complete. While foam is a very light material, it is substantially heavier than empty space.
Foam is also not very strong. If you were to wrap the same amount of CF around foam as I have used here, you would break the CF the first time you hit something hard because the foam supporting the CF would fail and compress leaving a deep bruise and or rip.
Wood is substantially stronger than foam, so you can get away with a lot less CF to achieve the same strength. As a result the wood/carbon/epoxy composite is stronger and lighter than you can achieve with styrofoam.
There are plenty of all carbon kayaks and canoes. The biggest problem is many glass and carbon canoes are made of fabric and resin, no core. This makes it tough to get highly efficient, and often means that out of the mold or later the boat will not hold a perfect shape, either globally or localized lumps. But when it comes to making a proper structure with cores and cloth, you basically have to do everything Nick does, but in nasty ugly foam. And then you are locked into shapes that aren't suitable to most people. You would be talking about plastic looking boats that cost 10-20 K.
all you have to do is turn down the volume . he might not have the same taste in music but builds a hellofa boat .
i suppose you like rap ? if you dont like the music just turn the volume down .
Looks neat. Learned nothing.
why waste youre time doing that when you can just vacuum bag it
Awfull musc.....
orrible music
no i like house more!!
Had to stop watching because of the "music"......
I had to jump (fast forward) thru this video, in order to minimize the time that I had to listen to THAT AWFUL 'HORN MUSIC'!!! YEEKS!!! The Glass work is very tedious enough to watch, by itself. That music made it unbearable!!!...Nice boat, though!....
guloguloguy Two very useful features of RUclips: Volume control - if you don't like the music, turn it down, and Speed (click on the little gear on the lower right) - run the video at 2X if things are too tedious.
I watch most instructional videos muted so I don't disturb others, and I usually watch at high speed so I don't waste as much time in front of the computer.
?? Nothing wrong with the music! You just don't like jazz I guess...
guloguloguy You sir are a MORON. The visuals are all you need. To fast forward through this great instructional video is lost on RUclips trolls such as yourself that probably has your phone set up on a porn site. You are a pathetic Troll. Why the maker of this excellent series even bothers to reply to you is beyond reason. Crawl back from under the rock you came from
+guloguloguy I think you just showed the world why your not a boat builder an he is. Jokes on you.
that stupid music kills everything