@@jasondoe2596 Should we care though ? He's not targetting anyone in particular, and Matt is generally a cheerful guy who loves what he shows us as well as his viewers, feeling disrepected because of a middle finger joke isn't something to be remotely offended over...
meri, eh, I know. I've been a subscriber for several years and I _know_ Matt means no harm. I certainly don't feel personally offended or anything. I think _reductio ad absurdum_ is always useful (whether trying to model a physical phenomenon, or to understand human behavior). For example, if this somehow became a trend, I'd wake up to a RUclips feed full of thumbnails giving me the finger. While I _still_ wouldn't be offended, it wouldn't be the nicest thing. At the very least, the thumbnails should represent the content (admittedly this one does - it demonstrates the gloves being flexible). PS. If flipping the bird *is* the content, no problem - I imagine if you searched RUclips for Torvalds and nVidia, you'd find something similar :P
@@tlsgrz6194 No. I think this would be problematic. My pair of RDs like to shed bits in interesting ways. Its like a malting. Bits fly across the room...
I must say for entry level synthetic sparring I always found them to be fine. I added fingertip protectors fairly swiftly, but after your video on the spes heavies I got some of them. Good for long sword/ sword and shield (tho sometimes in combination with a red dragon on the off hand). Luckily I have access to a workshop so I was able to customise them in line with the issues you raised - split the cuff and strapped it, and then replaced the thumb plates with more enclosed and articulated pieces.
Totally fair and balanced. The issue I've had is that the gloves do not fit me well, and any off the shelf piece of armour that doesn't have a huge amount of adjustment possibility will always have that issue. I can't bend my little fingers in them at all, which is clearly very dangerous. A foam waster would break my finger, so I'm going to have to alter them in lieu of a service which can do it for me. At no point though have I ever thought they were crap! For the price, for non-bespoke, tailored gear, I'm not sure what people expect!
Great video, Matt! I agree with you. I'm a sword and buckler / sword and shield enthusiast myself. And I think there is a big market for a glove that does not over-pad the back of the hand. With an in-set grip into an iron boss. Or even a buckler with twin leather straps, the biggest problem is bulk that every glove has for the bones of the hand below the knuckles. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any padding there, but between my lacrosse/hockey gloves, my Red Dragons, my Koning Gloves, the reeanctment gauntlets I've tried, and my drilling leather gloves. That one, crucial space I need clearance for with my buckler is the back of the hand. I love finger protection. I've had my pinky broken. I want the big protectiveness for them. A buckler can support that. I also like protecting my wrists with a cuff, as wrists have many small bones. But, I think buckler fencers deserve some love, and might be in the market for a new glove that makes I.33 and Lignitzer and things like that easier. I've considered buying a Sparring Glove and trying it out, or cutting it up as need be, but I'm here in the states. And that wouldn't be cheap at all. Getting my Koning's Gloves was a trial already.
For most general training they are great. ANY synthetic sword, most steel too, including longsword if you are careful... or learn how to move your hands out of the way ;-) They are a good all rounder if you want to keep costs down.
Great for SCA use, with a few modifications. Remove the "Red Dragon" back strap piece. Then purchase or make some sorta finger buckler to help disperse impact over what I call the "true edge knuckles". Been using them for several years this way, taken some really nasty shots in them, never a broken finger.
It's three years on and it's abysmal that they're still in the position Matt described here. The Ilkka Hartikainen video he mentions was from 2015-ish and he was complaining THEN how appalling it is that they're still basically the only somewhat affordable option for complex-hilt-but-smashy hand protection. At some point we may have to accept that if it were possible to market something better it would've happened by now. Maybe when the HEMA community grows out of sight something will come along.
I got a pair of these (before our club decided they weren't suitable for longsword). The stitching on one of the fingers came apart while I was first trying it on. Sent it back, and they took ages to send a new one. In the meantime, the club ruled they weren't suitable, so I cancled the order. A shame, as I think they are very comfortable, and a lot less restrictive than all the other gloves I've tried.
I use the 5 fingers by sparring gloves, there is a 3-4 months break in period. The resin on the fingers took out bits os flesh, but now they are smoothed out. Mobility wise, for me, after 7 months of use, they are similar to red dragons. Disclaimer: used only with knuckle bow napoleônico era sabres. They’re the only pair I own, so I use them with rapier and longsword as well. I understand is a overkill to use it with Rapiers, but is that or a leather glove... and I can’t afford to injury my fingers.
I use them for longsword (steel) sparing, and they are just fine. I actually don't like the other alternatives because they restrict the hands movements and especially the thumb way too much. Never had any problem with them.
I like them with fingertip protectors but I know several people in my club are sometimes reticent to rely on Red dragons for stirrup hilts & Sideswords. I think many are trying out the 5 finger Polish sparring gloves for that very reason.
I ran a pair of these gloves for a while and here are the issues I had 1. I had an issue where the plates in the fingers lined up too much with the knuckles so when I bent my finger it applied all the pressure to the knuckle and when getting hit hurt bad. 2. These gloves were too massive, I have no idea why the plates on these are shaped for hellboys hand but they are just too wide. They could slim that down and you could fit your hand in some hilts better. 3. The wrist guard is more than just worthless it actually caused some issues with getting caught on stuff or getting in the way. I use the STX Lacrosse Stallion 300 Gloves , they have plastic plated and padding in the fingers for pretty good protection but I have swollen some fingers of people wearing these more than a few times. I don't think these are great but they are the best I have tested so far a lot of the 1h stuff we do, arming sword, saber, messer. Right now from what I can tell there are no good 1h gloves out there.
Sparring Gloves hoofs. Especially if you are using the thumb up grip. If you dont and have a bowl hilt sabre you can just untie the thumb completly because either way its protected by the bowl. Additionaly its one of the lightest glove-forearm combo (~300g with extended cuff).
I always used the so called "kevlar gloves" but I only train in Italian saber (so lighter and balanced closer to the hand). I'm planning on getting a very mildly padded fabric underglove for them, also because hygene: especially in winter, when cold weakens the skin, a washable underglove could be a good solution, addig a tad bit of additional protection too.
A popular option up here in Canadaland is lacrosse gloves for the lighter swords and the buckler hand. Saber would be pushing it though, I think the thumb isn't quite protected enough for that. Hockey gear offers more protection for the budget minded, but mobility is pretty garbage.
As a general rule, if someone is commenting on the internet and they only or mainly study longsword, their opinion can be safely disregarded, on any subject.
The red dragons are just fine for long sword nylons. For the longest time I fenced with only a mask and gloves on for protection and I never had a problem with them. They’re good for what they’re designed to do.
I wonder If I should rather go for hockey gloves for saber. They seem to be sturdy enough to sustain a blunt trauma, and also less bulky to fit into hilt guard. Or even use industrial gloves like Ringers Super Hero or HexArmor. They are designed to protect hands from impact, have a good grip and do not hinder dexterity
I've got a dumb question (I'm an idiot, so dumb questions are my speciality). What about gloves from other sports? I'm specifically thinking about motorcycle gloves - either Knox Handroid (type) gloves or motocross gloves. Clearly they aren't going to offer the same type of protection, (with high impact, location specific blows from swords differing from crash type impacts) but they look like they'd be a compromise between the bulky 'Red Dragon' and usable thinner gloves. I'm just curious. (Even if it's utterly ridiculous, I'd speculate that motorcycle glove manufacturers could help with designs.)
Ian Macfarlane not really enough protection namely in the sides of the fingers, the knuckles, finger tips and the wrist, but it’s your hands so use what you want. In the end your gonna it’s gonna be protection vs mobility. A good example of a glove that offers plenty of protection but are a bit bulky are The Hoof from sparing glove. I don’t love them but they work
@@d.mat.zero6525 Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. I'm not a HEMA practitioner, but I do enjoy Matt's presentations. I suppose that as material and textile technology improves there will also be improvements in impact protection and mobility. Like I say, I was just curious, but thanks for the information.
Before specific HEMA gear became a thing, people used whatetever they could get: motorcycle or hockey gear among others... They can do the job and they're still used by some, but have many shortcomings because they're simply not designed for the specific needs of HEMA. That's why HEMA-specific gear is being developed and slowly improving over time.
If you're doing historic martial arts, with historic weapons, why would you not also use period-appropriate protective equipment? What did people who used swords, etc for real wear when training/sparring/duelling or in battle, and how would such compare to modern equipment like these gloves?
I use them with nylon longsword wasters, and they're ok for protection for that (I use them with added fingertip protectors), but not very confortable. For rapier I use some light gloves slightly more padded than your regular leather gloves that I think are supposed to be meant for sabre, but I'm not sure who makes them and I can only find this exact model in the Spanish shop we use, so maybe they make them themselves but I think they're only retailers arcensis.es/guantes-reforzados-de-esgrima-historica.html
I would say that what the Red Dragon gloves are MOST inappropriate for is Messer, haha. (Years ago, I actually even entered a few longsword tournaments using Red Dragons and never had an issue, and yet here I am now having dislocated two thumbs in Konings).
Plenty on the top of the guard, but the hand is vulnerable to strikes from the sides and especially to upward strikes to the pinky. Some HEMA sabres have extra protection there, but this decreases your range of motion.
Yes I have heard similar stories from other people. I think there must have been some batches that were inferior, because we never had any durability issues in my club that I am aware of. But of course I trust that some people did experience that.
Some tournaments offer sword-in-one-hand divisions for things like Messers, so you could enter that. The problem is, the gladius is very much designed to be used with a shield and is rubbish without one. It is too short and has no hand protection, so anyone who knows what they are doing will take your right hand and forearm apart before you can threaten them. There are very few (if any) sword-and-shield divisions in HEMA because we don't have sources for it.
What do you think about singlestick gloves? I found them useful for drilling, but it's not good for sparring at speed. Slow play was fine, but slow play is slow.
I'm new to HEMA and I'm looking at getting my own starting gear, and I don't really know what to look for. My favorite period/style of armorment is the 15th century Southern Germany's gothic style, and I would like to own my own set of armor one day. Is there a specific style of fighting that fits in with the gothic style, because I would like to be accurate when I have armor, and to not fight with a 13th century french style that's ment for tournaments when I'm wearing 15th century German battle armor. In the HEMA shop the synthetic swords are a little confusing for me, are they made of a synthetic metal, plastic, or some sort of mixture? Are they dull or just as sharp as steel. If they are sharp like steel, are there any safer options that are good for learning until I cam get comfortable enough to use steel.
I must say that I do NOT know anything about saber, I only do German Longsword and Italian Rapier. But I must ask: Gajardoni Kombat Gloves for saber? I use them for rapier and obviously we can't compare the potential harm to the hand between rapier and saber, but, would they hold up nicely? Are they too light? Just out of curiosity. You don'tk now when you are going to start another discipline, and better be prepared!
sounds like people are using the red dragon in situations where they should be using lobsters, for those who don't know, the ones that cup the whole hand are called lobster gloves and are made for more heavy duty sparring, not actually lobsters, although, i'd applaud the man who could use lobsters as protection though also see it as a waste of food and possible abuse maybe
The Red Dragon gloves are based on lacrosse gloves, but improved with extra protection and closing the biggest gaps. We used to use lacrosse gloves before better things came along. They are not terrible, but not really designed for sword impacts.
@@scholagladiatoria Like anything there are different qualities of lacrosse gloves and the lower end models that these appear to be based on aren't nearly as protective as the models meant for collegiate or professional lacrosse. The price difference is quiet a spread 50$ on the lower end to 200$ + for what collegiate lacrosse players would use. Axe Suede has become the standard for palm material in lacrosse and would probably be well suited to gripping a sword as well. In my experience Warrior and Brine gloves tend to be the most protective. STX/Nike tends to have the best mobility and hand flexibility.
@@scholagladiatoria Basically, the Red Dragon gloves appear to be similar to youth lacrosse gloves i.e. much less protective than higher end models primarily because of the kind of foam and polyurethane used in the construction.
@@scholagladiatoria Without knowing the particulars. One thing to consider regarding the fact that "such and such" from sport X was used back in the day before specific HEMA gear was available is the amount of product development resources that go into the evolution of equipment for many major sports compared to HEMA. E.g. just because that bit of '99' hockey/lacrose/motorcycle/americanfootball/baseball gear that you or others used 15+ years ago was no good, does not mean that the '17' version might not be worthwile, either in itself in current form, or as the "best starting point" for an adaptation or for developing new HEMA specific variants.
I don't do HEMA but what about steel gauntlets custom made for your hand. I can se that they would be far more expensive but should also be far more protective. With them being custom fitted to your hand you should have better hand movement and be thinner so they should be able to fit in hilts. Plus they were historically used for that purpose before synthetic gauntlets were used Just curious
Gauntlets work great against cuts but suck against impacts, hence they developed mitten gauntlets for things like pollaxe and longsword combat.... But steel mittens suck for once-handed swords. For fencing they actually used... padded gloves. Just like us. Gauntlets are also quite heavy.
I wonder if gloves using D30, or other similar non-Newtonian materials, would fix a lot of the problems that current gloves have. At the very least i can D30 like materials used for areas like the sides of the fingers. But I wonder how well a glove made almost entirely out of this kind of material would work well, I figure if it can help protect you form injuries in case of a motorcycle accident it acually work for HEMA.
Oh god the spes heavies...i don't know why people love those so much. I can't even remotely hold a sword correctly in that bulky stiff monstrosity. I find even the red dragon gloves too cumbersome really.
As a Canadian these look like they would be great street hockey or ball hockey gloves, something to protect your hands when some bastard slashes you across the knuckles with his old wooden KOHO hockey stick or his new aluminum one. they almost look like actual hockey gloves (hockey being what you European types call "ice hockey" I assume to differentiate it from that other kind called "field hockey". We play field hockey here in Canada too, and by "we", I mean girls in high school. Seriously though, they do look like hockey gloves. Who makes them?
They aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. As long as you're controlling your hits, even in rough sparring, it'll be fine. I've been using them with ok-ish results.
Many people did actually use cricket gloves back in the early days of HEMA, but I would not recommend them at all. The fingers are way too exposed on the sides and the sides of the thumbs and wrists normally have no protection at all. They are also rather massive and a problem to fit in a sabre hilt.
Is it available to buy? I have seen custom gloves which are great, but unfortunately unless something is commercially available for students to order then it's no use.
Red Dragon Gloves have absolutely shitty quality control. From the dozen we had, half broke of in a couple of weeks with moderate force, while the other glove of the same pair was fine (left and right hand distributed randomly). No level of context discussion will increase their quality control.
Davinel Linvega The knuckle plates come off constantly, I went through two without even getting to use them, just trying to close my hand tore out the stitching. They’re garbage
Yes I have heard this online. Luckily we have never experienced that here - I used a pair solidly twice a week since the prototype stage and they are still in one piece. I guess we've been lucky, or maybe there were just a couple of bad batches that got out there.
@@scholagladiatoria You know I agree that if they had reliable quality control, they would be decent gloves for many things. But to me it seems more like buying 2 or 3 pairs until you get one functioning couple.
@@scholagladiatoria Found my Red Dragon stood up to years of sabre and cutlass use taking a few hard hits and was equally suited to rapier and dagger on the left hand. Not a perfect glove but for the price and weapons used it was adequate. No issue with quality control either. I do wonder if the newer gloves are made to a weaker standard as it seems that the QC issues feel more recent.
We could not get them to work inside sabre hilts - the back of the hand was too big and bulky. We had two or three people in the club with them and they all got rid of them.
Custom spring stainless or titanium finger gauntlets without padding and fitted gloves. The use of padding and plastics is unfortunately why these HEMA (hockey) gloves suck. They are of course, massively cheaper than what I have suggested. Good fitted Armour has always been expensive but will last much longer than sport gear.
Certainly a lot of fencers are more thrashing than fencing, but on the other hand, we do target hands. So sometimes a hit to the hand is a success for the attacker and intentional.
What about airsoft guns? They don't look that manuvable for gun handling, (I know), but would it maybe be a bit possible? Its just that I want to play airsoft but I also want to protect my fingers. And in the airsoft world there just isn't a really "well protected option". They all want "Good looking gunning gloves" (from Oakley and mechanix and wiley x etc..) that surely are good for the military who doesn't care for getting shot in the fingers because you are fucked anyway if you get hit. Just if you had a gun lying around. Plastic toy gun or anything like that you could try to grab. I have just heard a lot of cases where airsofters get shot in the fingers and get a injury... And maybe this glove could keep my fingers protected no matter how close a gunshot...
Maybe you spar at lower intensities than we do at our club, but I have one clubmate who is stuck with a pair of these, and he doesn't trust them and has been hurt in them. And yes, I'm talking about steel sabre. We use Neyman 5-finger gloves. They're a bit cumbersome, but they fit in our sabre hilts fine, and we actually trust them to protect our hands against stronger blows. They need to be properly broken in, though. But I know you don't like Neyman. And I don't blame you, to be honest.
We don't spar at lower intensity, we have the 1st and 2nd HEMA sabre fencers (HEMA Ratings) in the UK and the 2nd was the British Stick Fighting champion for years. If anything, we need to scale back some of the 'intensity'. I guess we are just good at not getting hit in the hands as hard as some people.
@@scholagladiatoria I'm not disparaging your fencers' skill at all, Matt. It was just a thought, I've seen you use a lot more push cuts than we use. Though you've given me food for thought, I can't really remember the last time I was seriously hit in the hand. Maybe it's time to reevaluate. P.S.: We've had that exact conversation before :P They fit okay, but after months of breaking in, which I accept isn't very nice. So far, I've found the trade-off worth it. That said, I won't be buying a new pair after my current one wears out.
I have had repeated bad experiences with Neyman products and service, as have various other members of my club. But if Neyman made a glove that I thought was better for our purposes than Red Dragons then I'd absolutely buy a pair. The problem for me is that while there are certainly gloves that protect better than Red Dragons, I find they all drastically reduce mobility and grip options and lead to worse fencing. I already find Red Dragons as big and cumbersome as I'd like (well more than I'd like), so whatever I replace them with will have to be at least the same if not better in this regard.
@@scholagladiatoria The interactions I've had with them haven't been perfect, but overall quite positive, yet I keep hearing bad things, and I'm really not sure what to make of that... Anyway, the pair of RD gloves in my club are falling apart and have been since pretty much the start of their use (mesh torn, stitches failing, crumbling leather...) while my Neymans have survived years of sparring with one torn stitch that was easy to fix. Neither product is perfect, I think it comes down to us sticking to the devil we know over one we don't know :P At the end of the day, we're all waiting for the "holy grail" of ProGauntlet, or more realistically sometime this millenia, Dario's WeaponMaster gauntlets :)
There really aren't any appropriate gloves for Sword & Buckler and Sidesword at the moment - Red Dragons aren't protective enough, while everything else is far too restrictive (especially for sideswords due to the finger ring). It's a damned shame.
The weird thing is that I got Red Dragons for saber sparring, then I found out that they didn't fit in the hilt but my Neyman Thokks do. Plus yeah the glove sucks for what it is. Same with the SPES Heavy, the thumb has sucked for years, and people have modded them into a split-hoof design with no issues. It boggles my mind that you'd sell dozens/hundreds/thousands of these without fixing such basic things.
Context is dead, long live Perspective and long shall he meme!
Depends on the context, really.
Never thought I'd see the day that Matt would give me the finger
Star finger
*SHINING FINGER!!!!*
Sticky fingaaa
Well lubricated and expertly applied finger...
Finger me, senpai
I love that thumbnail.
I get that it's humorous, but it's still kinda disrespectful, to be honest.
(I mean, it looks directed to the viewers...)
@@jasondoe2596
Should we care though ? He's not targetting anyone in particular, and Matt is generally a cheerful guy who loves what he shows us as well as his viewers, feeling disrepected because of a middle finger joke isn't something to be remotely offended over...
meri, eh, I know. I've been a subscriber for several years and I _know_ Matt means no harm. I certainly don't feel personally offended or anything.
I think _reductio ad absurdum_ is always useful (whether trying to model a physical phenomenon, or to understand human behavior). For example, if this somehow became a trend, I'd wake up to a RUclips feed full of thumbnails giving me the finger. While I _still_ wouldn't be offended, it wouldn't be the nicest thing.
At the very least, the thumbnails should represent the content (admittedly this one does - it demonstrates the gloves being flexible).
PS. If flipping the bird *is* the content, no problem - I imagine if you searched RUclips for Torvalds and nVidia, you'd find something similar :P
@@jasondoe2596 >wants respect on the internet
You must be new here?
Wendy James, indeed, kind sir.
I was born yesterday!
I can confirm, without any hesitation, that RD gloves are not good for Baroque dance hand gestures.
Or smallsword.
I'm pretty sure they aren't god for steel mace either.
@@tlsgrz6194 No. I think this would be problematic. My pair of RDs like to shed bits in interesting ways. Its like a malting. Bits fly across the room...
@@tlsgrz6194 pretty good for full contact poleaxe though
Would this work for 9mm pistol sparring?
I must say for entry level synthetic sparring I always found them to be fine. I added fingertip protectors fairly swiftly, but after your video on the spes heavies I got some of them. Good for long sword/ sword and shield (tho sometimes in combination with a red dragon on the off hand). Luckily I have access to a workshop so I was able to customise them in line with the issues you raised - split the cuff and strapped it, and then replaced the thumb plates with more enclosed and articulated pieces.
Nice
Saw the sneak-peek on the context posting group
Totally fair and balanced. The issue I've had is that the gloves do not fit me well, and any off the shelf piece of armour that doesn't have a huge amount of adjustment possibility will always have that issue. I can't bend my little fingers in them at all, which is clearly very dangerous. A foam waster would break my finger, so I'm going to have to alter them in lieu of a service which can do it for me. At no point though have I ever thought they were crap! For the price, for non-bespoke, tailored gear, I'm not sure what people expect!
I like the red dragon gloves. I have used them for longsword for over a year now and never have had an injury.
that’s a provocative thumbnail if ever I saw one
Great video, Matt! I agree with you. I'm a sword and buckler / sword and shield enthusiast myself. And I think there is a big market for a glove that does not over-pad the back of the hand. With an in-set grip into an iron boss. Or even a buckler with twin leather straps, the biggest problem is bulk that every glove has for the bones of the hand below the knuckles. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any padding there, but between my lacrosse/hockey gloves, my Red Dragons, my Koning Gloves, the reeanctment gauntlets I've tried, and my drilling leather gloves. That one, crucial space I need clearance for with my buckler is the back of the hand.
I love finger protection. I've had my pinky broken. I want the big protectiveness for them. A buckler can support that. I also like protecting my wrists with a cuff, as wrists have many small bones. But, I think buckler fencers deserve some love, and might be in the market for a new glove that makes I.33 and Lignitzer and things like that easier.
I've considered buying a Sparring Glove and trying it out, or cutting it up as need be, but I'm here in the states. And that wouldn't be cheap at all. Getting my Koning's Gloves was a trial already.
I would recommend high end lacrosse gloves
For most general training they are great. ANY synthetic sword, most steel too, including longsword if you are careful... or learn how to move your hands out of the way ;-) They are a good all rounder if you want to keep costs down.
Great for SCA use, with a few modifications. Remove the "Red Dragon" back strap piece. Then purchase or make some sorta finger buckler to help disperse impact over what I call the "true edge knuckles". Been using them for several years this way, taken some really nasty shots in them, never a broken finger.
the master of thumbnail.
For those watching the video to see Matt flip the bird: 4:29
I use Age of Craft visby gauntlets for saber and sidesword. They fit inside my hilts excellently and have great dexterity and flexibility.
I use the rd gloves for steel longsword sparring, usually only up to medium level sparring, they work just fine for me 🤷♂️
I like mine, and fine them to work quite well for synthetic longsword.
It's three years on and it's abysmal that they're still in the position Matt described here. The Ilkka Hartikainen video he mentions was from 2015-ish and he was complaining THEN how appalling it is that they're still basically the only somewhat affordable option for complex-hilt-but-smashy hand protection. At some point we may have to accept that if it were possible to market something better it would've happened by now. Maybe when the HEMA community grows out of sight something will come along.
I got a pair of these (before our club decided they weren't suitable for longsword). The stitching on one of the fingers came apart while I was first trying it on. Sent it back, and they took ages to send a new one. In the meantime, the club ruled they weren't suitable, so I cancled the order.
A shame, as I think they are very comfortable, and a lot less restrictive than all the other gloves I've tried.
I use the 5 fingers by sparring gloves, there is a 3-4 months break in period. The resin on the fingers took out bits os flesh, but now they are smoothed out. Mobility wise, for me, after 7 months of use, they are similar to red dragons. Disclaimer: used only with knuckle bow napoleônico era sabres.
They’re the only pair I own, so I use them with rapier and longsword as well. I understand is a overkill to use it with Rapiers, but is that or a leather glove... and I can’t afford to injury my fingers.
I use them for longsword (steel) sparing, and they are just fine. I actually don't like the other alternatives because they restrict the hands movements and especially the thumb way too much.
Never had any problem with them.
I like them with fingertip protectors but I know several people in my club are sometimes reticent to rely on Red dragons for stirrup hilts & Sideswords.
I think many are trying out the 5 finger Polish sparring gloves for that very reason.
I ran a pair of these gloves for a while and here are the issues I had
1. I had an issue where the plates in the fingers lined up too much with the knuckles so when I bent my finger it applied all the pressure to the knuckle and when getting hit hurt bad.
2. These gloves were too massive, I have no idea why the plates on these are shaped for hellboys hand but they are just too wide. They could slim that down and you could fit your hand in some hilts better.
3. The wrist guard is more than just worthless it actually caused some issues with getting caught on stuff or getting in the way.
I use the STX Lacrosse Stallion 300 Gloves , they have plastic plated and padding in the fingers for pretty good protection but I have swollen some fingers of people wearing these more than a few times. I don't think these are great but they are the best I have tested so far a lot of the 1h stuff we do, arming sword, saber, messer. Right now from what I can tell there are no good 1h gloves out there.
Just bought these for escrima sparring. We use wooden sparring sticks so hopefully these will be OK. I bought the finger tip inserts also.
The leather rapier gloves from purpleheart armoury has about the same protection but with longer cuffs and more comfortable.
sometimes the HEMA community gets really picky. Great video Matt.
Sparring Gloves hoofs. Especially if you are using the thumb up grip. If you dont and have a bowl hilt sabre you can just untie the thumb completly because either way its protected by the bowl. Additionaly its one of the lightest glove-forearm combo (~300g with extended cuff).
I cannot get any form of hoof or mitten to work in a sabre hilt properly at all.
I always used the so called "kevlar gloves" but I only train in Italian saber (so lighter and balanced closer to the hand). I'm planning on getting a very mildly padded fabric underglove for them, also because hygene: especially in winter, when cold weakens the skin, a washable underglove could be a good solution, addig a tad bit of additional protection too.
4:29 What you came for
An actually brief video :)
Mat i love your content :3 i wonder when could we see you doing some fantastic saber sparring c:
Thanks! I do have some sparring footage to upload, but not of me.
A popular option up here in Canadaland is lacrosse gloves for the lighter swords and the buckler hand. Saber would be pushing it though, I think the thumb isn't quite protected enough for that.
Hockey gear offers more protection for the budget minded, but mobility is pretty garbage.
As a general rule, if someone is commenting on the internet and they only or mainly study longsword, their opinion can be safely disregarded, on any subject.
The red dragons are just fine for long sword nylons. For the longest time I fenced with only a mask and gloves on for protection and I never had a problem with them. They’re good for what they’re designed to do.
You have no idea how many sleepless hours I have spent in the middle of the night worrying about this.
I wonder If I should rather go for hockey gloves for saber. They seem to be sturdy enough to sustain a blunt trauma, and also less bulky to fit into hilt guard. Or even use industrial gloves like Ringers Super Hero or HexArmor. They are designed to protect hands from impact, have a good grip and do not hinder dexterity
Whoops darn it. When you "like" a video you liked a few years back, you end up "unliking" it
I've got a dumb question (I'm an idiot, so dumb questions are my speciality).
What about gloves from other sports?
I'm specifically thinking about motorcycle gloves - either Knox Handroid (type) gloves or motocross gloves.
Clearly they aren't going to offer the same type of protection, (with high impact, location specific blows from swords differing from crash type impacts) but they look like they'd be a compromise between the bulky 'Red Dragon' and usable thinner gloves.
I'm just curious.
(Even if it's utterly ridiculous, I'd speculate that motorcycle glove manufacturers could help with designs.)
Ian Macfarlane not really enough protection namely in the sides of the fingers, the knuckles, finger tips and the wrist, but it’s your hands so use what you want. In the end your gonna it’s gonna be protection vs mobility. A good example of a glove that offers plenty of protection but are a bit bulky are The Hoof from sparing glove. I don’t love them but they work
@@d.mat.zero6525 Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.
I'm not a HEMA practitioner, but I do enjoy Matt's presentations.
I suppose that as material and textile technology improves there will also be improvements in impact protection and mobility.
Like I say, I was just curious, but thanks for the information.
@@d.mat.zero6525 I just Googled the 'Hoof' HEMA glove.
Looks like I'm miles off - that's a lot of protection.
Before specific HEMA gear became a thing, people used whatetever they could get: motorcycle or hockey gear among others... They can do the job and they're still used by some, but have many shortcomings because they're simply not designed for the specific needs of HEMA. That's why HEMA-specific gear is being developed and slowly improving over time.
Lacrosse gloves may be what your looking for
Pro Gauntlets are coming out, I think they might be better.
I use the Gajardoni for sabre, rapier, smallsword, and singlestick. Koning for longsword and arming sword.
Got a like simply for the epic thumbnail
If you're doing historic martial arts, with historic weapons, why would you not also use period-appropriate protective equipment? What did people who used swords, etc for real wear when training/sparring/duelling or in battle, and how would such compare to modern equipment like these gloves?
thats a pretty cheeky thumbnail
What about sparring gloves special?
Love that thumbnail
I like them , i wish they would make a HEMA special edition in which they color it more brownishleathery and remove the red Dragon Thing
I guess you could paint them. Idk, I'm not much of a DIY guy myself, but if that's important to you... heh
I use them with nylon longsword wasters, and they're ok for protection for that (I use them with added fingertip protectors), but not very confortable. For rapier I use some light gloves slightly more padded than your regular leather gloves that I think are supposed to be meant for sabre, but I'm not sure who makes them and I can only find this exact model in the Spanish shop we use, so maybe they make them themselves but I think they're only retailers arcensis.es/guantes-reforzados-de-esgrima-historica.html
Here for the thumbnail image! XD
Could to do a breakdown of arms to armament matching dos and don'ts for the renaissance and medieval period?
That actually makes a lot of sense. I hated them for Longsword
I would say that what the Red Dragon gloves are MOST inappropriate for is Messer, haha. (Years ago, I actually even entered a few longsword tournaments using Red Dragons and never had an issue, and yet here I am now having dislocated two thumbs in Konings).
They are bad for steel longsword, but are they good for synthetic?
For a cup hilt Saber wouldn’t the guard be sufficient protection?
Plenty on the top of the guard, but the hand is vulnerable to strikes from the sides and especially to upward strikes to the pinky. Some HEMA sabres have extra protection there, but this decreases your range of motion.
what do you think about steel stick (700g) could be safe sparring? (for finges knuckes)
I went through two pairs that broke BEFORE even using them. In my experience the quality of construction is the issue, not coverage.
Yes I have heard similar stories from other people. I think there must have been some batches that were inferior, because we never had any durability issues in my club that I am aware of. But of course I trust that some people did experience that.
Would you say they would slsi be good for holding katana
Thumbnail got me...
What division of hema could best apply to using a gladius?
Some tournaments offer sword-in-one-hand divisions for things like Messers, so you could enter that. The problem is, the gladius is very much designed to be used with a shield and is rubbish without one. It is too short and has no hand protection, so anyone who knows what they are doing will take your right hand and forearm apart before you can threaten them. There are very few (if any) sword-and-shield divisions in HEMA because we don't have sources for it.
Well that sucks :( i love shields
Hello please is it possible to hold a shield handle into umbo with this ?
1:07 drilling with an actual drill.
That thing looks like a hockey glove
What do you think about singlestick gloves? I found them useful for drilling, but it's not good for sparring at speed. Slow play was fine, but slow play is slow.
I'm new to HEMA and I'm looking at getting my own starting gear, and I don't really know what to look for.
My favorite period/style of armorment is the 15th century Southern Germany's gothic style, and I would like to own my own set of armor one day. Is there a specific style of fighting that fits in with the gothic style, because I would like to be accurate when I have armor, and to not fight with a 13th century french style that's ment for tournaments when I'm wearing 15th century German battle armor.
In the HEMA shop the synthetic swords are a little confusing for me, are they made of a synthetic metal, plastic, or some sort of mixture? Are they dull or just as sharp as steel. If they are sharp like steel, are there any safer options that are good for learning until I cam get comfortable enough to use steel.
4:29 Who else put a thumbs up just because of this one moment?
I must say that I do NOT know anything about saber, I only do German Longsword and Italian Rapier. But I must ask: Gajardoni Kombat Gloves for saber? I use them for rapier and obviously we can't compare the potential harm to the hand between rapier and saber, but, would they hold up nicely? Are they too light? Just out of curiosity. You don'tk now when you are going to start another discipline, and better be prepared!
I just wish they were sewn together with decent thread so they didn't come apart at the seams all the time.
Curious about that knuckle part, those knuckle bulges are knuclkes actually even near them if dont bulges should be ditched.
Looks like Ice Hockey gloves.
Are they good for wooden/synthetic longsword sparring? :)
sounds like people are using the red dragon in situations where they should be using lobsters, for those who don't know, the ones that cup the whole hand are called lobster gloves and are made for more heavy duty sparring, not actually lobsters, although, i'd applaud the man who could use lobsters as protection though also see it as a waste of food and possible abuse maybe
It seems like lacrosse gloves would suit your purpose fairly well
The Red Dragon gloves are based on lacrosse gloves, but improved with extra protection and closing the biggest gaps. We used to use lacrosse gloves before better things came along. They are not terrible, but not really designed for sword impacts.
@@scholagladiatoria Like anything there are different qualities of lacrosse gloves and the lower end models that these appear to be based on aren't nearly as protective as the models meant for collegiate or professional lacrosse. The price difference is quiet a spread 50$ on the lower end to 200$ + for what collegiate lacrosse players would use. Axe Suede has become the standard for palm material in lacrosse and would probably be well suited to gripping a sword as well. In my experience Warrior and Brine gloves tend to be the most protective. STX/Nike tends to have the best mobility and hand flexibility.
@@scholagladiatoria Basically, the Red Dragon gloves appear to be similar to youth lacrosse gloves i.e. much less protective than higher end models primarily because of the kind of foam and polyurethane used in the construction.
@@scholagladiatoria something like this www.lax.com/lacrosse-equipment/stx-surgeon-700-gloves-18
@@scholagladiatoria
Without knowing the particulars. One thing to consider regarding the fact that "such and such" from sport X was used back in the day before specific HEMA gear was available is the amount of product development resources that go into the evolution of equipment for many major sports compared to HEMA.
E.g. just because that bit of '99' hockey/lacrose/motorcycle/americanfootball/baseball gear that you or others used 15+ years ago was no good, does not mean that the '17' version might not be worthwile, either in itself in current form, or as the "best starting point" for an adaptation or for developing new HEMA specific variants.
I don't do HEMA but what about steel gauntlets custom made for your hand. I can se that they would be far more expensive but should also be far more protective. With them being custom fitted to your hand you should have better hand movement and be thinner so they should be able to fit in hilts. Plus they were historically used for that purpose before synthetic gauntlets were used
Just curious
Gauntlets work great against cuts but suck against impacts, hence they developed mitten gauntlets for things like pollaxe and longsword combat.... But steel mittens suck for once-handed swords. For fencing they actually used... padded gloves. Just like us. Gauntlets are also quite heavy.
I wonder if gloves using D30, or other similar non-Newtonian materials, would fix a lot of the problems that current gloves have. At the very least i can D30 like materials used for areas like the sides of the fingers. But I wonder how well a glove made almost entirely out of this kind of material would work well, I figure if it can help protect you form injuries in case of a motorcycle accident it acually work for HEMA.
Thokk gloves
@@ikksksknsk4720 Yeah, whenever they actually materialize, they're a big hope.
Matt do you know progauntlet?
Oh god the spes heavies...i don't know why people love those so much. I can't even remotely hold a sword correctly in that bulky stiff monstrosity. I find even the red dragon gloves too cumbersome really.
*sees thumbnail* - _DEMONITIZED_
They look like hockey gloves.
But are they good for grinding?
As a Canadian these look like they would be great street hockey or ball hockey gloves, something to protect your hands when some bastard slashes you across the knuckles with his old wooden KOHO hockey stick or his new aluminum one. they almost look like actual hockey gloves (hockey being what you European types call "ice hockey" I assume to differentiate it from that other kind called "field hockey". We play field hockey here in Canada too, and by "we", I mean girls in high school. Seriously though, they do look like hockey gloves. Who makes them?
Why are there no modern metal gloves?
Because steel gauntlets aren't as safe as you believe them to be.
I actually just bought a set 6 hours ago. Damn
They aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. As long as you're controlling your hits, even in rough sparring, it'll be fine. I've been using them with ok-ish results.
@@mattmanbrownbro Thanks mate I appreciate that. They arrive in 2 ish weeks and then I guess I will know for myself.
🖕First.
Cricket gloves will work fine in Hema for Saber.
Red dragon gloves are perfect for Batsman.
Many people did actually use cricket gloves back in the early days of HEMA, but I would not recommend them at all. The fingers are way too exposed on the sides and the sides of the thumbs and wrists normally have no protection at all. They are also rather massive and a problem to fit in a sabre hilt.
I think the glove I came up with is better, I sent you a picture a few years back.
Is it available to buy? I have seen custom gloves which are great, but unfortunately unless something is commercially available for students to order then it's no use.
+1 to Matt memes
Red Dragon Gloves have absolutely shitty quality control. From the dozen we had, half broke of in a couple of weeks with moderate force, while the other glove of the same pair was fine (left and right hand distributed randomly). No level of context discussion will increase their quality control.
Davinel Linvega The knuckle plates come off constantly, I went through two without even getting to use them, just trying to close my hand tore out the stitching. They’re garbage
Yes I have heard this online. Luckily we have never experienced that here - I used a pair solidly twice a week since the prototype stage and they are still in one piece. I guess we've been lucky, or maybe there were just a couple of bad batches that got out there.
@@scholagladiatoria You know I agree that if they had reliable quality control, they would be decent gloves for many things. But to me it seems more like buying 2 or 3 pairs until you get one functioning couple.
@@scholagladiatoria Found my Red Dragon stood up to years of sabre and cutlass use taking a few hard hits and was equally suited to rapier and dagger on the left hand. Not a perfect glove but for the price and weapons used it was adequate. No issue with quality control either. I do wonder if the newer gloves are made to a weaker standard as it seems that the QC issues feel more recent.
It is totally inappropriate for the type of drilling that leaves holes in wall.
"Here's the perspective for you"
sabre ..and sidesword also ..
What about Neyman Fencing's Inigo Montoya gloves?
We could not get them to work inside sabre hilts - the back of the hand was too big and bulky. We had two or three people in the club with them and they all got rid of them.
@@scholagladiatoria Have you tried the Neyman Thokk gloves?
Shame he never put his hand into a saber to show how it fits.
Darth vader wants his glove back...
Red Dragon HEMA gloves are horrible for lightsaber fighting. No protection at all. Needs to be made of cortosis.
Custom spring stainless or titanium finger gauntlets without padding and fitted gloves. The use of padding and plastics is unfortunately why these HEMA (hockey) gloves suck. They are of course, massively cheaper than what I have suggested. Good fitted Armour has always been expensive but will last much longer than sport gear.
Anytime I hear a color followed by "dragon", I start getting Ashida Kim flashbacks.
Why are they blocking with hands, when they've got 3ft of steel? ;)
Certainly a lot of fencers are more thrashing than fencing, but on the other hand, we do target hands. So sometimes a hit to the hand is a success for the attacker and intentional.
MINE LORD
What about airsoft guns? They don't look that manuvable for gun handling, (I know), but would it maybe be a bit possible?
Its just that I want to play airsoft but I also want to protect my fingers. And in the airsoft world there just isn't a really "well protected option". They all want "Good looking gunning gloves" (from Oakley and mechanix and wiley x etc..) that surely are good for the military who doesn't care for getting shot in the fingers because you are fucked anyway if you get hit.
Just if you had a gun lying around. Plastic toy gun or anything like that you could try to grab. I have just heard a lot of cases where airsofters get shot in the fingers and get a injury... And maybe this glove could keep my fingers protected no matter how close a gunshot...
I was deeply offended by the thumbnail.
Maybe you spar at lower intensities than we do at our club, but I have one clubmate who is stuck with a pair of these, and he doesn't trust them and has been hurt in them. And yes, I'm talking about steel sabre.
We use Neyman 5-finger gloves. They're a bit cumbersome, but they fit in our sabre hilts fine, and we actually trust them to protect our hands against stronger blows. They need to be properly broken in, though.
But I know you don't like Neyman. And I don't blame you, to be honest.
We don't spar at lower intensity, we have the 1st and 2nd HEMA sabre fencers (HEMA Ratings) in the UK and the 2nd was the British Stick Fighting champion for years. If anything, we need to scale back some of the 'intensity'. I guess we are just good at not getting hit in the hands as hard as some people.
p.s. We tried all the models of Neyman gloves and cannot hold a sabre like a sabre, only like a club. :-)
@@scholagladiatoria I'm not disparaging your fencers' skill at all, Matt. It was just a thought, I've seen you use a lot more push cuts than we use. Though you've given me food for thought, I can't really remember the last time I was seriously hit in the hand. Maybe it's time to reevaluate. P.S.: We've had that exact conversation before :P They fit okay, but after months of breaking in, which I accept isn't very nice. So far, I've found the trade-off worth it. That said, I won't be buying a new pair after my current one wears out.
I have had repeated bad experiences with Neyman products and service, as have various other members of my club. But if Neyman made a glove that I thought was better for our purposes than Red Dragons then I'd absolutely buy a pair. The problem for me is that while there are certainly gloves that protect better than Red Dragons, I find they all drastically reduce mobility and grip options and lead to worse fencing. I already find Red Dragons as big and cumbersome as I'd like (well more than I'd like), so whatever I replace them with will have to be at least the same if not better in this regard.
@@scholagladiatoria The interactions I've had with them haven't been perfect, but overall quite positive, yet I keep hearing bad things, and I'm really not sure what to make of that... Anyway, the pair of RD gloves in my club are falling apart and have been since pretty much the start of their use (mesh torn, stitches failing, crumbling leather...) while my Neymans have survived years of sparring with one torn stitch that was easy to fix. Neither product is perfect, I think it comes down to us sticking to the devil we know over one we don't know :P At the end of the day, we're all waiting for the "holy grail" of ProGauntlet, or more realistically sometime this millenia, Dario's WeaponMaster gauntlets :)
There really aren't any appropriate gloves for Sword & Buckler and Sidesword at the moment - Red Dragons aren't protective enough, while everything else is far too restrictive (especially for sideswords due to the finger ring). It's a damned shame.
Yeah, I've used Red Dragons with my sidesword simply because it is the only option for us. But I got one really painful hit on the index finger.
The weird thing is that I got Red Dragons for saber sparring, then I found out that they didn't fit in the hilt but my Neyman Thokks do.
Plus yeah the glove sucks for what it is. Same with the SPES Heavy, the thumb has sucked for years, and people have modded them into a split-hoof design with no issues. It boggles my mind that you'd sell dozens/hundreds/thousands of these without fixing such basic things.