The hardest part of Sons of Horus are getting the paint scheme down right to where they arent green and they arent blue. Their RoWs and specialized troops are super solid.
Would definitely agree! I actually like Phils muted green armour (though I have jokingly called it stomach-infection-poo green) Having gone through their book etc I think SoH players have a big transition from 1.0 to go through (from close range shooting to combat) but when they make it they’re going to be dishing out pain
You might be right about the pain scheme, but you are wrong on their specialized troops: they are very over-costed for what is given when compared to what other legions get. I look at Reavers and then look at Dawn Breaker cohort, and would take the latter every day of the week. Justaerin have expensive upgrades and would lose to Suzerain. Abaddon is WAY over-costed, as he is neither a buffing 1st Captain, nor a great duelist - worse than Sigismund but more expensive.
I glad the FAQ made it so Reaver Aggressor squads work in Black Reaving now and that you can turn off the disruptor array on the Master of Signals. Seems to clear up some of your biggest issues.
@@BearfootMiniatures I am working on Kitbashing a squad of Reaver Aggressors. The old Khorn Berzerkers box has been great for their running poses and plenty of chain axes.
@@Dracus40k I’ve been thinking of picking some up you know: I actually really like them still (maybe it’s nostalgia) Shoot me some pics of your reavers mate so I can see how you’ve used them!
Regarding the Carsoran Power Axe... Unlike a lot of other legion specific wargear isn't limited to characters. I think it's best used on units that won't gain extra attacks anyway (thus, negating the issue with beign a specialist weapon)
Just starting to consider getting into 2.0. I have been a long-time SoH player with a major focus on being traitor and using The Long March, very much like yourself Phil. From the get-go I haven't noticed a lot of enthusiasm over the state of SoH atm lol. I definitely acknowledge SoH were strong in 1.0, not necessarily at any one thing, but at being very versatile and able to adapt to many situations. Thats why I loved them. I am only part way through the vid. but look forward to your thoughts! First time viewer
Hope you enjoyed it mate! I actually just played as Phils sons vs Phils mech on Thursday Gotta say I liked the aggressiveness it forces into your lists now, I think it’s just a biiiigg change from the 1.0 short range firepower style (not saying they’re at the top of the legions power fist but I just think it’s been a large transition from 1.0 lists)
@@BearfootMiniatures Steve at Mountain Miniatures did some good tier listing. Had the SOH at the top of the bottom third. So about 13th out of 18 I think. If their advanced reaction meant that the enemy didn't get to shoot back with casualties included THEN i think they are then increasing that shooting output that so many other legions get. The imperial fists and death guard seem busted with their passive traits and RoWs!
Sons of horus color scheme is easily my favorite, and while I don't think the rules are bad, I also think they're just not great. Getting hit at -1 strength in combat is great, unless you're up against a shooting army. You're just gonna get smoked on your way into combat. Meanwhile, other combat armies are hitting you first/more/essentially negate your combat abilities. I just think it's a bad rule. Their special weapons are cool at least.
I agree, it’s the getting there that’s the key, without a speed boost or survivability boost the tactic will be getting there I’m going to be recommending Phil to try out assault marines and reaver assault squads I think for his next trial!
Thanks for the Vid I think the rather small upside to the carsoran axes is that its any power weapon, not just on characters, so there are some niches like a big 20 man reaver squad where a few might be good
Horus Assended seems more for Narrative battles where your having Enps, Sanguinious, and Dorn fighting on the Vengeful Spirit. Good review, listened while working on my Justerian
Cheers mate! Ye, I mean he doesn’t really fight (other than russ on the vengeful spirit if I’m remembering correctly) after moloch, but would’ve expected him to be much more dominant tbh, the rules seem more of a hinderance than benefits
Your right sir: I’ve not had experience of it myself (combats being over in one round mostly, or one round and then one sides neutered, when we’ve had them) but definitely an important distinction
I'm currently building towards my regular rites of war being Black Reaving, Long March and Drop pod assault. I've had pretty good luck with the Sons of Horus so far but I'm definitely still dailing them in. I hope they FAQ the master of signal or his wargear, though if they don't you can still deepstike a big unit if justaerin with black reaving, so you can build around that odd limitation, I also hope they'll update the Dreadclaws to be assault vehicles and the Kharibdis to have deepstike.
With the long march you can have your terminators in transports as well? Run spartan and a land raider and then deepstrike a large retinue of Justerian with Horus. That’s the way I read it.
Yes mate you can, and I suppose heavy terminators never really want to be hoofing it up the board, so not a massive drawback And ye if your taking Horus can definitely deepstrike them, which could be a good option especially with deepstrike and charge this edition
I play Blood Angels, and my main opponent for the past few years plays Sons of Horus. When I Charge, our Legion Traits mostly cancel each other out (except he still can't be ID'd), but when he Charges, he still gets the full effect of his Legion Trait. So, basically, I do t get a Legion Trait, and he still gets his that just triggers in 50% of the time. Makes me feel like I am playing Legion Genericus. That SoH Trait is really good. Makes me feel like it should only have been on the Charge, or when Charged, and not both.
100% agree mate, we filmed this last week (edit time etc…) and the more Hearing it has matured in my mine the more the trait seems excellent! I think the problem people may be having is based on their old armies (Phil for example doesn’t have destroyers)
As a BA player, you would still win even if your Legion Trait is cancelled out, as your unique units are so much better than SoH unique units. Dawn Breakers get Furious Charge too, so the SoH trait would negate that, but you would still get your Legion Trait then. Being only slightly more expensive than Reavers, but with better armor and guns, and flying, you come out ahead.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 dawnbreakers don’t get much ID weapons tho. They are quite undercosted atm anyway. 10 man DB cohort gets at max 36 attacks at AP3 str 5 and sudden strike + 4 AP2 str 8 perdition axe attacks, but with 2+ save for themselves. This would cost 345pts. Reaver attack squad costed at 340 pts would get 16 power fist attacks at AP 2 str 8 + 20 chainaxe attacks at str 5 ap- while receiving the charge. Sure the DB would probably win, but not by that much.
@@DirtyMardi - Yes, Dawn Breakers at at S5, but they get +1 to wound on the charge, which they should get because of their jet packs. They can more easily choose their targets than crappy over-costed Reavers. Against the Reavers, they are still only wounding on 3+, but the Reavers get no saves and strike after. I would keep their Falling Spears for the +1 Initiative and Rending 5+. Most Reavers will die before getting to swing back. So, for very little points more than Reavers, DB get jet packs, great melee weapons for MEC and decent vs. TEQ, plus a ranged weapon and a 2+! Bonkers. Reavers? Barf. By every measure, DB are at least 20 points under-costed per model.
Came here to get ideas for a new allied Sons of Horus force and my first thought on how they're immune to instant death from thunder hammers or power fists is - unless it's the Imperial Fists and their Solarite power gauntlets....
I was getting ready to get in with sons of horus but iam very disappointed by the rules. The legion trait is excellent just doesnt feel very SoH. All the specific troops are overcosted which is kinda sad. I have no idea what to do with them they just feel boring.
So I was talking to phil the other day and sort of reasoned out that they feel a lot more "late heresy" (and this potentially goes for all the legions) than they did in previous edition I dont think their legion specifics are brilliant as they are (as you said below about vets, I agree much lower costed, do largely the same) but I think if someone nailed gameplay based on legion rule they're definitely in the mix
@@BearfootMiniatures hmmm interesting, didn't look at it like that. I guess my disappointed wasnt solely the SoH rules. I was planning a SoH army for a while around an assault theme with reaver in dreadclaws (which was their special transport) and deepstrike terminators. But that concept was kindoff ruined by the core rules on droppod assault. They will still be a good army just not different enough from my IF.
@@3v3rhard - Literally feeling the same. SoH were the legion I wanted to play, but the HH core rules and ALL the SoH unique stuff being far worse than nearly every other legion really put me off it. Everything SoH is over-costed AND weaker. Really hoping they come out with a rebalance soon.
Missing the fact horus ascended instant deaths anything T4 with the claw and has deflagrate causing extra wounds. He deletes entire marine squads in a charge. it can take a serious toll on any non cataphractii terminator squad and I guess it just adds extra reliability to the fact ur gonna delete whatever he fights fairly reliably with the extra attacks. At T8 n FNP he’s virtually unkillable too.
ok so...... if I get my head around this.. the guys said that the MOS will cause a disordered deep strike on a 1-2-3 but then mentioned if you brought 1 unit in on its own it isn't affected by the disordered deep strike ? where is the wording in the rules as i can't see it written like that? i just read it it as everything that deep strikes is affected
You place the 1st unit down and scatter as instructed. Then you roll the disorder and if you roll a 1 it affects every other unit to come down. The first unit placed stays where it is.
Hi guys. Love your video! Thanks for the break down. Great commentary! I'm a 3d modeler, please get in touch with me if you ever get any interest into it
Will do mate, just looking at your stuff now, the crozius builder looks great! I do get bits pop into my head every now and then so I’ll make a note of your name (cos I can Google through your cults page)
@@BearfootMiniatures of course, thanks. I recently made a commission for valrak (servorak) and I'm trying to do a mini for all the channels, big or small as a thank you for thier content.
I stil not see why you would take a Chieftain squad, a standard command squad is cheaper and does the same. Only difference is the Banestrike bolters and the kingslayer. And even more important the command squad has more options and cheaper power weapons! 9 dudes command with boarding and power weapons = 57 points cheaper then Chieftains with the same loadout. Imo is the 57 points not worth banestrike bolters and the situational Kingslayer rule
Ye it’s not the best squad (a few of the exemplary battle squads are like that, IW dominator terminators last edition were useless) more for theme I think but a cool squad non the less
@@SleepySoviet I understand that, but why would you sacrifice an HQ slot? The characters buff units, as for Chieftans are just a expensive veteran/command squad unit. Not looking from a narrative point
@@michielschouten because 2+/5++ line unit > buff character of dubious value. My playgroup uses the tempest of war from 40K modified for 30k and being able to hold on to objectives to win the game is much more important than it is in the book missions. Of course this is just anecdotal evidence, but I can attribute a good chunk of why I’m something like 9-1 in this new edition to having as many units that can hold objectives as possible. Edit : your math is also weirdly selective. Yes, the command squad gets cheaper power weapons, but the power fists are the same price on both. A barebones chieftain squad is 4 points more than a 5 man command squad with boarding shields for which you get banestrike bolters, a better retinue rule, and kingslayers. I run my chieftains with 2-3 fists and the rest with chainswords/ axes and the math is close to even between the two.
@@alexanderk7970 it's not like you can turn off a jammer. And he's supposed to be a "master of signals" so he should know when to do it also. But we will see, everything is possible
I’m in the mid way camp: on or off but till you change it next turn, so if turn 2 you choose to turn it off it’s off for both players, t3 if it’s on it’s on for both players
Yea it should be turn by turn basis or just towards the enemy. I mean. We are able to jam others communication and keep ours open. So I can see either side of this as a fix.
I love the Reavers, Especially the Aggressorsquads. But Reavers have to take a chain axe and the Charnable/Power weapon/Power Fist does not replace, but is in addition to the chain axe.
Ohh for replacing the bolt pistol? Gives you the option i suppose, im just super sad still reavers lost the ability to go all boba fett with jump packs and collide chargers
Well can't take Power Fist & Carsaron Power Axe and get the +1 attack. If you do add a powerfist to the chain axe, you still don't get +1 attack. You still get your pistol. So they can have a pistol, chain axe, & PowerFist.
Page 147 of the Traitor Legion Astartes Book, under Vox Disruptor Array; "While there is at least one model on the battlefield with a vox disruptor array, regardless of whether that model is enemy or friendly, any attempt to perform a Deep Strike Assault, Drop Pod Assault, Area Denial Drop or Subterranean Assault is Disordered on the roll of 1 2 or 3 instead of just on a 1"
Iron warriors in their original fluff actually were a predominantly cc legion for the infantry, cos once the walls are breached it’s time for some butchery!
The hardest part of Sons of Horus are getting the paint scheme down right to where they arent green and they arent blue. Their RoWs and specialized troops are super solid.
Would definitely agree! I actually like Phils muted green armour (though I have jokingly called it stomach-infection-poo green)
Having gone through their book etc I think SoH players have a big transition from 1.0 to go through (from close range shooting to combat) but when they make it they’re going to be dishing out pain
Check out the new Greenstuff Dipping inks, called azure or azur forgot, it looks really good on white base coat.
You might be right about the pain scheme, but you are wrong on their specialized troops: they are very over-costed for what is given when compared to what other legions get. I look at Reavers and then look at Dawn Breaker cohort, and would take the latter every day of the week. Justaerin have expensive upgrades and would lose to Suzerain. Abaddon is WAY over-costed, as he is neither a buffing 1st Captain, nor a great duelist - worse than Sigismund but more expensive.
Check out the cult of paint guide.
@@wijse +1 on this!
I glad the FAQ made it so Reaver Aggressor squads work in Black Reaving now and that you can turn off the disruptor array on the Master of Signals. Seems to clear up some of your biggest issues.
100% mate, the sons came out ok on the faq front
Reaver aggressors especially: so good with everything stacked in IMO
@@BearfootMiniatures I am working on Kitbashing a squad of Reaver Aggressors. The old Khorn Berzerkers box has been great for their running poses and plenty of chain axes.
@@Dracus40k I’ve been thinking of picking some up you know: I actually really like them still (maybe it’s nostalgia)
Shoot me some pics of your reavers mate so I can see how you’ve used them!
The 4x Istvaan III Legions are my 4 favorite fluffu Legions. Thanks for the content!
No worries mate, glad you enjoyed it!
Regarding the Carsoran Power Axe... Unlike a lot of other legion specific wargear isn't limited to characters. I think it's best used on units that won't gain extra attacks anyway (thus, negating the issue with beign a specialist weapon)
Just starting to consider getting into 2.0. I have been a long-time SoH player with a major focus on being traitor and using The Long March, very much like yourself Phil.
From the get-go I haven't noticed a lot of enthusiasm over the state of SoH atm lol. I definitely acknowledge SoH were strong in 1.0, not necessarily at any one thing, but at being very versatile and able to adapt to many situations. Thats why I loved them.
I am only part way through the vid. but look forward to your thoughts! First time viewer
Hope you enjoyed it mate! I actually just played as Phils sons vs Phils mech on Thursday
Gotta say I liked the aggressiveness it forces into your lists now, I think it’s just a biiiigg change from the 1.0 short range firepower style (not saying they’re at the top of the legions power fist but I just think it’s been a large transition from 1.0 lists)
@@BearfootMiniatures Steve at Mountain Miniatures did some good tier listing. Had the SOH at the top of the bottom third. So about 13th out of 18 I think.
If their advanced reaction meant that the enemy didn't get to shoot back with casualties included THEN i think they are then increasing that shooting output that so many other legions get.
The imperial fists and death guard seem busted with their passive traits and RoWs!
Sons of horus color scheme is easily my favorite, and while I don't think the rules are bad, I also think they're just not great.
Getting hit at -1 strength in combat is great, unless you're up against a shooting army. You're just gonna get smoked on your way into combat. Meanwhile, other combat armies are hitting you first/more/essentially negate your combat abilities. I just think it's a bad rule.
Their special weapons are cool at least.
I agree, it’s the getting there that’s the key, without a speed boost or survivability boost the tactic will be getting there
I’m going to be recommending Phil to try out assault marines and reaver assault squads I think for his next trial!
Thanks for the Vid
I think the rather small upside to the carsoran axes is that its any power weapon, not just on characters, so there are some niches like a big 20 man reaver squad where a few might be good
Just mixing them in, I suppose as your getting so many attacks there anyway
Horus Assended seems more for Narrative battles where your having Enps, Sanguinious, and Dorn fighting on the Vengeful Spirit. Good review, listened while working on my Justerian
Cheers mate!
Ye, I mean he doesn’t really fight (other than russ on the vengeful spirit if I’m remembering correctly) after moloch, but would’ve expected him to be much more dominant tbh, the rules seem more of a hinderance than benefits
um, it's only -1 str, when charging or being charged... thats not always. And is a big difference than saying when always in melee combat.
Your right sir: I’ve not had experience of it myself (combats being over in one round mostly, or one round and then one sides neutered, when we’ve had them) but definitely an important distinction
Love your heresy vids, looking forward to your night lords one.
Will be out as soon as I can nail someone down! All the NL in my group are unavailable salfly
I'm currently building towards my regular rites of war being Black Reaving, Long March and Drop pod assault. I've had pretty good luck with the Sons of Horus so far but I'm definitely still dailing them in. I hope they FAQ the master of signal or his wargear, though if they don't you can still deepstike a big unit if justaerin with black reaving, so you can build around that odd limitation, I also hope they'll update the Dreadclaws to be assault vehicles and the Kharibdis to have deepstike.
Oh surely one or the other on the MoS, so weird on the interactions there, but ye 15 justerin the way to go atm haha
I think RAW your read on the advance reaction is correct
Yeah, whether that’s RAI I don’t know but it makes it a brilliantly unique Reaction this way.
With the long march you can have your terminators in transports as well? Run spartan and a land raider and then deepstrike a large retinue of Justerian with Horus. That’s the way I read it.
Yes mate you can, and I suppose heavy terminators never really want to be hoofing it up the board, so not a massive drawback
And ye if your taking Horus can definitely deepstrike them, which could be a good option especially with deepstrike and charge this edition
I play Blood Angels, and my main opponent for the past few years plays Sons of Horus. When I Charge, our Legion Traits mostly cancel each other out (except he still can't be ID'd), but when he Charges, he still gets the full effect of his Legion Trait. So, basically, I do t get a Legion Trait, and he still gets his that just triggers in 50% of the time.
Makes me feel like I am playing Legion Genericus.
That SoH Trait is really good. Makes me feel like it should only have been on the Charge, or when Charged, and not both.
100% agree mate, we filmed this last week (edit time etc…) and the more Hearing it has matured in my mine the more the trait seems excellent!
I think the problem people may be having is based on their old armies (Phil for example doesn’t have destroyers)
@@BearfootMiniatures I do have Destroyers I just don’t have them painted…..Yet
As a BA player, you would still win even if your Legion Trait is cancelled out, as your unique units are so much better than SoH unique units. Dawn Breakers get Furious Charge too, so the SoH trait would negate that, but you would still get your Legion Trait then. Being only slightly more expensive than Reavers, but with better armor and guns, and flying, you come out ahead.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 dawnbreakers don’t get much ID weapons tho. They are quite undercosted atm anyway. 10 man DB cohort gets at max 36 attacks at AP3 str 5 and sudden strike + 4 AP2 str 8 perdition axe attacks, but with 2+ save for themselves. This would cost 345pts. Reaver attack squad costed at 340 pts would get 16 power fist attacks at AP 2 str 8 + 20 chainaxe attacks at str 5 ap- while receiving the charge. Sure the DB would probably win, but not by that much.
@@DirtyMardi - Yes, Dawn Breakers at at S5, but they get +1 to wound on the charge, which they should get because of their jet packs. They can more easily choose their targets than crappy over-costed Reavers. Against the Reavers, they are still only wounding on 3+, but the Reavers get no saves and strike after.
I would keep their Falling Spears for the +1 Initiative and Rending 5+. Most Reavers will die before getting to swing back.
So, for very little points more than Reavers, DB get jet packs, great melee weapons for MEC and decent vs. TEQ, plus a ranged weapon and a 2+! Bonkers. Reavers? Barf. By every measure, DB are at least 20 points under-costed per model.
Came here to get ideas for a new allied Sons of Horus force and my first thought on how they're immune to instant death from thunder hammers or power fists is - unless it's the Imperial Fists and their Solarite power gauntlets....
hahaha fists is a special case though, they should be put in a box to play with them selves till late war (like they actually did!)
I was getting ready to get in with sons of horus but iam very disappointed by the rules. The legion trait is excellent just doesnt feel very SoH. All the specific troops are overcosted which is kinda sad. I have no idea what to do with them they just feel boring.
So I was talking to phil the other day and sort of reasoned out that they feel a lot more "late heresy" (and this potentially goes for all the legions) than they did in previous edition
I dont think their legion specifics are brilliant as they are (as you said below about vets, I agree much lower costed, do largely the same) but I think if someone nailed gameplay based on legion rule they're definitely in the mix
@@BearfootMiniatures hmmm interesting, didn't look at it like that. I guess my disappointed wasnt solely the SoH rules. I was planning a SoH army for a while around an assault theme with reaver in dreadclaws (which was their special transport) and deepstrike terminators. But that concept was kindoff ruined by the core rules on droppod assault. They will still be a good army just not different enough from my IF.
@@3v3rhard - Literally feeling the same. SoH were the legion I wanted to play, but the HH core rules and ALL the SoH unique stuff being far worse than nearly every other legion really put me off it. Everything SoH is over-costed AND weaker. Really hoping they come out with a rebalance soon.
Fluff wise, I can’t believe they didn’t give the talon of Horus mastercrafted: Didn’t the Fabricator General of Mars make it for him?
Nooo mastercrafted is such a loyalist/fists rule, unwieldy is more a chad traitor rule to have
Missing the fact horus ascended instant deaths anything T4 with the claw and has deflagrate causing extra wounds. He deletes entire marine squads in a charge. it can take a serious toll on any non cataphractii terminator squad and I guess it just adds extra reliability to the fact ur gonna delete whatever he fights fairly reliably with the extra attacks. At T8 n FNP he’s virtually unkillable too.
But i agree not worth 400pts maybe half that.
I agree, he’s really killy (the best maybe except potentially ferrus) it’s just horus’ points that puts me off him massively tbh…
ok so...... if I get my head around this.. the guys said that the MOS will cause a disordered deep strike on a 1-2-3 but then mentioned if you brought 1 unit in on its own it isn't affected by the disordered deep strike ? where is the wording in the rules as i can't see it written like that? i just read it it as everything that deep strikes is affected
You place the 1st unit down and scatter as instructed. Then you roll the disorder and if you roll a 1 it affects every other unit to come down. The first unit placed stays where it is.
Hi guys. Love your video! Thanks for the break down. Great commentary! I'm a 3d modeler, please get in touch with me if you ever get any interest into it
Will do mate, just looking at your stuff now, the crozius builder looks great!
I do get bits pop into my head every now and then so I’ll make a note of your name (cos I can Google through your cults page)
@@BearfootMiniatures of course, thanks. I recently made a commission for valrak (servorak) and I'm trying to do a mini for all the channels, big or small as a thank you for thier content.
I stil not see why you would take a Chieftain squad, a standard command squad is cheaper and does the same. Only difference is the Banestrike bolters and the kingslayer. And even more important the command squad has more options and cheaper power weapons! 9 dudes command with boarding and power weapons = 57 points cheaper then Chieftains with the same loadout. Imo is the 57 points not worth banestrike bolters
and the situational Kingslayer rule
Ye it’s not the best squad (a few of the exemplary battle squads are like that, IW dominator terminators last edition were useless) more for theme I think but a cool squad non the less
Because chieftains don’t have to be fielded as a retinue, you can just take them separately
@@SleepySoviet I understand that, but why would you sacrifice an HQ slot? The characters buff units, as for Chieftans are just a expensive veteran/command squad unit. Not looking from a narrative point
@@michielschouten because 2+/5++ line unit > buff character of dubious value. My playgroup uses the tempest of war from 40K modified for 30k and being able to hold on to objectives to win the game is much more important than it is in the book missions. Of course this is just anecdotal evidence, but I can attribute a good chunk of why I’m something like 9-1 in this new edition to having as many units that can hold objectives as possible.
Edit : your math is also weirdly selective. Yes, the command squad gets cheaper power weapons, but the power fists are the same price on both. A barebones chieftain squad is 4 points more than a 5 man command squad with boarding shields for which you get banestrike bolters, a better retinue rule, and kingslayers. I run my chieftains with 2-3 fists and the rest with chainswords/ axes and the math is close to even between the two.
Sorry for being blind but can’t see the Chieftain unit mentioned anywhere 🫣
I hope they faq the master of signal very very soon :D it's so stupid (and pretty clear it shouldn't work like that)
not sure on that, it’s basically jamming, so the non-selective nature fits thematically, still a pity though
@@alexanderk7970 it's not like you can turn off a jammer. And he's supposed to be a "master of signals" so he should know when to do it also. But we will see, everything is possible
I’m in the mid way camp: on or off but till you change it next turn, so if turn 2 you choose to turn it off it’s off for both players, t3 if it’s on it’s on for both players
Yea it should be turn by turn basis or just towards the enemy. I mean. We are able to jam others communication and keep ours open. So I can see either side of this as a fix.
Where are the rules for reaver chieftain squad? I can't find them
They’re a legendary battle pdf on Warhammer community article for sons!
www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/6i9CeSwKmbWmzac4.pdf
Horus ascended probably needs a rework lol
Agreed… slightly not the best…
I love the Reavers, Especially the Aggressorsquads. But Reavers have to take a chain axe and the Charnable/Power weapon/Power Fist does not replace, but is in addition to the chain axe.
Ohh for replacing the bolt pistol? Gives you the option i suppose, im just super sad still reavers lost the ability to go all boba fett with jump packs and collide chargers
Well can't take Power Fist & Carsaron Power Axe and get the +1 attack. If you do add a powerfist to the chain axe, you still don't get +1 attack. You still get your pistol. So they can have a pistol, chain axe, & PowerFist.
Veterans are just so much better. Even the power weapon upgrade is half points cheaper.
Don't forget the Counter-attack 1, Precision shots & strikes and the bonuses if ran in The Black Reaving. Reavers out shine the Vets.
@@marcmiddleton2277 precision strike/shot on a 6+ isn’t great though.
nothing says your own master of signal
will hurt your own deep strike. That is only something you have to worry about when your opponent has one
Ill double check mate!
Page 147 of the Traitor Legion Astartes Book, under Vox Disruptor Array; "While there is at least one model on the battlefield with a vox disruptor array, regardless of whether that model is enemy or friendly, any attempt to perform a Deep Strike Assault, Drop Pod Assault, Area Denial Drop or Subterranean Assault is Disordered on the roll of 1 2 or 3 instead of just on a 1"
@@Domojin I guess i was wrong. That’s a pretty damn stupid rule
Is it just me that gets bothered when the guest guy gets interrupted so often?
why is the iron warrior telling us about combat? get back in your bunker.
also, chainaxes no longer ap4.
What do you think happens when they breach into a castle or a fort gotta use a little melee every now and again
Iron warriors in their original fluff actually were a predominantly cc legion for the infantry, cos once the walls are breached it’s time for some butchery!
@@BearfootMiniatures hmmm. The events of the Siege of Terra makes you guys almost as terrible as the WE.