yeah, the idea was that the spey would a) be more powerful (which it was) b) be more fuel efficient with it being a turbofan (which as an engine it was) and c) over and above anything else, it would be british built. you're bang on, the drag caused by enlarging the engine bays and intakes, and the extra weight of the engine meant that it was slower, and had a lower operating altitude. it did however have an enormous power advantage on take off - helpful given the size of our carriers !
Oh just knock me out!!! When I was growing up in the 1970's here in San Antonio, Tx., the 149th at the former Kelly AFB had phantoms. They flew around so much and so often, you got tired of all the noise and all the howling. When Chase NAS in Beeville, TX. , south of San Antonio, closed in 1986 and when the air logistics center at Kelly was closed, the air traffic grinded to a halt. Now, I miss these aircraft so much. You Tube is only method of keeping the sight of these planes alive.
I worked as and Power plant maintenance engineer on Phantoms with the RR Spey engine in the seventies and they were not smoky, smoky engines were always attributed to American manufacturers back in the seventies.
Awesome, awesome video of my all-time favourite aircraft -- seeing those F4s coming overhead took me back... Got lucky and saw an RC at Reno a couple of years ago, but most of my memories are of Spey powered beasts terrorising Norfolk as a nipper :) Thanks for sharing.
@digireedoo I was at Wattisham between 89-93 and we retired the F-4J(UK) in January 1991, with the remaining FGR.2's retiring in October 1992. The 74 Sqn F-4J(UK)'s had many of the modifications found on the F-4S including the smokeless J79-GE-10B engines. It's still odd that the Germans never included this engine mod in the ICE upgrade, so they still smoke like this even now! On paper the Spey was much better, but those fuselage mods cancelled out any advantages with increased drag.
@digireedoo One main problem with they Spey powered phantoms were that even though they were a more powerfull engine and a turbofan to boot the extra width required meant they they were considerably slower and the extra drag made them consume more fuel, both reasons why they chose the spey to begin with so doesnt sound like a win to me, i'd stick with a J-79 any day
@digireedoo Yeah I understand from some of my Lufty friends that it was indeed a cost thing, after all the new radar (same APG-65 as fitted in the Hornet) cost a packet along with the new weapons suite. As the Cold War was over too, and the Typhoon project well underway they decided that the smokeless engine mods were an unnecessary additional cost. So you'd have been at CBY summer camp when 29 Sqn and 228 OCU were still there then just before the Tornado F.3 arrived!
@jetnoiseforever Yep, smokey German air force F-4F Phantoms with what appears to be the ICE upgrade. USN/USMC F-4S and USAF F-4E Phantoms eventually got J79s that were less smokey.. Am baffled as to why the Germans didn't get those engines as well. Then again, I'm baffle by a lot of things associated with the Phantom, like why the RAF chose the Tornado ADV as apposed to upgrade their Phantoms.
yeah, the idea was that the spey would a) be more powerful (which it was) b) be more fuel efficient with it being a turbofan (which as an engine it was) and c) over and above anything else, it would be british built. you're bang on, the drag caused by enlarging the engine bays and intakes, and the extra weight of the engine meant that it was slower, and had a lower operating altitude. it did however have an enormous power advantage on take off - helpful given the size of our carriers !
The Mcdonnell-Douglas Phantom. A triumph of thrust over aerodynamics.
Oh just knock me out!!! When I was growing up in the 1970's here in San Antonio, Tx., the 149th at the former Kelly AFB had phantoms. They flew around so much and so often, you got tired of all the noise and all the howling. When Chase NAS in Beeville, TX. , south of San Antonio, closed in 1986 and when the air logistics center at Kelly was closed, the air traffic grinded to a halt. Now, I miss these aircraft so much. You Tube is only method of keeping the sight of these planes alive.
Great Thunberg loves the Phantom.
Ol' smokey., i've flown a F4 & fired the gun.😊
Great video and well filmed, the two landing at 2:00 were the best!
Wow I can almost feel the heat of the engines! Scary when you are that close. 2:07 and 2:28 are great.
I worked as and Power plant maintenance engineer on Phantoms with the RR Spey engine in the seventies and they were not smoky, smoky engines were always attributed to American manufacturers back in the seventies.
In Wales in the 60s they used to fly over towns at tree top height.
Man, I miss the Phantom. What a brute.
German phantoms with the smoky j79s luv um
Awesome, awesome video of my all-time favourite aircraft -- seeing those F4s coming overhead took me back... Got lucky and saw an RC at Reno a couple of years ago, but most of my memories are of Spey powered beasts terrorising Norfolk as a nipper :)
Thanks for sharing.
Oh yes the crop spraying howlimg F4 phantom when w
e used to have an airforce
The Good old F-4 Phantom
Damn as good as the F4 Phantom was she was a real ole smoky joe...
excellent video brings back some good memories thanks you so much
Those approaches used to be amazing before they put the huge fence up on the roadside, kicked em all a little higher other the threshold after that :(
@digireedoo I was at Wattisham between 89-93 and we retired the F-4J(UK) in January 1991, with the remaining FGR.2's retiring in October 1992. The 74 Sqn F-4J(UK)'s had many of the modifications found on the F-4S including the smokeless J79-GE-10B engines. It's still odd that the Germans never included this engine mod in the ICE upgrade, so they still smoke like this even now! On paper the Spey was much better, but those fuselage mods cancelled out any advantages with increased drag.
I Completley agree with you on that,, i miss the Phantom FGR2, awesome aircraft, and all the rest of the others
Fantastic video! So wish i could have been there!
The good old days,RIP ACMI. Waddington.
Wonderful bit of filming ,hope you had your hearing protection on .Well done you
classic
@digireedoo
One main problem with they Spey powered phantoms were that even though they were a more powerfull engine and a turbofan to boot the extra width required meant they they were considerably slower and the extra drag made them consume more fuel, both reasons why they chose the spey to begin with so doesnt sound like a win to me, i'd stick with a J-79 any day
the good old days, real aircraft, ;))
@digireedoo Yeah I understand from some of my Lufty friends that it was indeed a cost thing, after all the new radar (same APG-65 as fitted in the Hornet) cost a packet along with the new weapons suite. As the Cold War was over too, and the Typhoon project well underway they decided that the smokeless engine mods were an unnecessary additional cost. So you'd have been at CBY summer camp when 29 Sqn and 228 OCU were still there then just before the Tornado F.3 arrived!
Oh for the days of seeing 56 Squadron Phantoms around.
@mikeryry Close they were Saab Drakens of the Austrian AF I think
@jetnoiseforever Yep, smokey German air force F-4F Phantoms with what appears to be the ICE upgrade. USN/USMC F-4S and USAF F-4E Phantoms eventually got J79s that were less smokey.. Am baffled as to why the Germans didn't get those engines as well. Then again, I'm baffle by a lot of things associated with the Phantom, like why the RAF chose the Tornado ADV as apposed to upgrade their Phantoms.
Phantom always had a dirty exhaust trail.
@digireedoo
No Sir they were all german toons
you obviously didnt get to waddington then !!
mmmmmmmm,faceful o kerosine !!!
Talk about coal burners ... Bet those F-4s smelt great! :-D