You Can NOT Isolate the VMO Muscle!
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
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Shout out @Muscle and Motion with the amazing anatomy graphics.
btw kneesovertoes guy never said you can isolate the vmo, he just said you can bias it by squatting deeper and having your knees further over your toes. his shit is still top notch
also elevating your heels i think, the elevation is crazy good at hitting my vmos at least
I think the confusion is because he has an exercise named “the vmo squat” where its a squat with heels elevated.
I think the confusion comes from the idea of "isolating", even in your tricep pulldowns you aren't perfect isolating your triceps, probably some engagement in rear delt/lats.
Seems like a necessary implication of "cant be isolated" is "cannot be directly favored" despite them showing how to favor the VMO.
@@testingmysoup5678 Yeah because when you squat with elevated heels it allows you to drive your knees further over your toes allowing to squat deeper
@@virno69420 what is this Derrick mpmd
That squat should be in every sport science textbook ever
VMO activation is highest during upper 15% of motion (Reverse Step Ups) and lower 15% of the motion of knee flexion (Slant Board Squat).
Could u pls explain this , if its not an issue with u , I mostly want to know what type of excercises to do which incorporate said motion
@@danyalkhan6152 step up or quarter squat for little knee flexion, deep squat or pistol squat for high knee flexion
@@ArkbladeIX oh... I see thanks man , really appreciate it
This is like making a vid saying you can't isolate the upper chest. No shit but you can emphasize it more.
And you can do it to a degree that it can be called isolation
Umm ok
For anyone who has doubts of what Kneesovertoesguy said, just do a set of 50 poliquin step up, then see for yourself that the VMO is gonna burn like crazy
Ikr
His teardrop squat gets em even worse
KOT guy Ben Patrick never said you could isolate the VMO, he said you can target it preferentially based on squat depth/angles which this video later confirms, despite the click bait title based on a false dichotomy
Okay listen… for those criticizing this video, please feel free to read.
I love Ben, but sometimes he can be wrong. Squat U gets things wrong too, we all can be. However, in this video he’s pretty factual. Deep squatting and extending from a fully flexed position can *somewhat emphasize the medialis because of the direction of the fibers and how they *somewhat keep the knees from valgus and internal rotation… BUT it’s typically not a significant difference. And that’s only based on a couple studies of EMG data which is not entirely indicative of hypertrophy. Just squat deep and enjoy developing the whole quad and having healthy knees (and others). 🙂
Can’t isolate it but you can bias it
How do I do that then, I didn't really understand the video
@@childishdream6949 basically deep squats or leg extensions. you can't train it alone but it will feel most of the weight hope that makes sense
@@owensheasbyunfortunately deep squatting is painful if you have chondromalacia patella (my case ) . More detailed information would be helpful
@@jackiealv6547 if you go to a gym you can use a leg extension machine. I'm busy right now, so I would send you over to the knees over toes guy. he knows his stuff
Everyone’s so confused, Ben has never said you can isolate the VMO. He’s only said exactly what this video says “the deeper you squat the more activation you get out of the VMO. You’d have to be a total moron to believe the rest of the musculature crossing the same joint would just shut off and allow one muscle to do all the work. For all of you saying “Ben was wrong” well I’m afraid you suffer from a condition known as “not listening”! Everything stated in this video in regards to not being able to isolate the VMO is not only exactly what kneesovertoesguy has always said, but literally common sense if you just think about it.
Ryan Humiston did a good video disputing this. Although the vmo technically originates in the same place as the vastus medialis. There are certain angles which favour training the vmo shown. Much like how the pec major is technically one muscle but u can align better with certain fibres from different leverages
I was just about to say snatches and C&J definitely grow the Vastus medialis.
Not isolated but definitely stimulated from bottoming out squats. Nobody knows what a true ass to grass squat is until they catch a snatch at the bottom
I have been doing cyclist squats, atg split squats and poliquin steps with weights and a full knee bend, my vmo has grown seriously big.
ok but you can still preferntialy train the VMO by squatting below 90 degrees, not isolation but still utilizing the VMO more than the rest of the quad muscles, also a big premise of ben patricks programme is that strengening the VMO more that the othet quad muscles reduces knee pain. is that false?
It would depend on what type of knee pain you have
Bro he literally said that in the short
This is wrong
You are assuming knee functions a pure hinge... it doesn't
There is rotation and varus/valgus force that will infact activate some fibers more than others. This is despite the common and broad insertion.
This can be misleading
Most exercises don’t isolate a muscle. You can’t isolate but definitely can pick exercises that favor them.
KOTG would like it if you'd please stop click-baiting people about VMO activation and to at least acknowledge the Poliquin step-up shown near the end of this clip.
click bait makes money. if he got more money not click baiting he would.
What is this video trying to prove exactly? By this definition, no muscles can be isolated. But you can certainly use specific exercises to target any muscle including the VMO. As a comment below says, Poliquin Step Up is one example.
It’s information
It feels like you’re saying yes and no, and yes and no
He’s saying isolating the vmo like you would your bicep for a bicep curl is impossible but by modifying squat depth you can utilize your vmo more that you would squatting with less depth
@@finnsaunders2344 I get that he just says it really weird, it’s like doing chin ups instead of pull-ups to get more bicep activation
I don't agree with the guy in this video.
There's exercises to emphasize more the VMO.
This is actually pretty ignorant to state. Anything you do during the day moving around your can emphasize different muscles more than others. What a lame video to have as your claim to the most clicks of your life.
I don't get why people are saying he's contradicting kotg. They're saying the same thing people! Do we not even have enough attention span to watch a whole short anymore?
Sam looking shredded 🤒🤒
Tell that to kneesovertoes guy
he’ll say himself you cant ISOLATE the vmo, but you CAN preferentially train it when you squat below parallel
He was the first in my awareness to tell that it can't be isolated but targeted among others.
Damn that squat was deeper than the Mariana Trench
Although you can't isolate the vmo there are ways to train it better.
Exactly. Sick of physios telling me to ‘train’ the VMO. I point out that one muscle having four heads doesn’t change the fact that it is one muscle.
Yes, but most people are under training the VMO by not doing extreme ROM squats, which really stretch the quads. Look at ANY elite strength athlete- CrossFit, Oly, bodybuilding, etc. - and they will have a huge VMO. That is not coincidence.
True, I squat past 90 degrees and it really activates the teardrop part
This is bs. While you possibly cannot isolate completely, you can train to make it prominent in the movement.
Well, yer. That’s the point. You can’t isolate it, it’s not like it doesn’t grow, it’s just that you simply cannot target the single muscle group 🤦♀️
@@goonimann5028 by that account you cannot isolate a single muscle in your body.
@@Ilethsamael Pretty much. The muscles in your blood vessels still are working, and your heart, and stabilising muscles, etc, etc. You can't expect to isolate a muscle 100%.
@@alexc7857 that said, with proper training you can heavily emphasise one muscle or muscle group to offer the most training stimulus changing the muscle even within the same exercise.
Exactly. I don't agree with this video.
I've always felt like I couldn't target the teardrop no matter what I did. I feel less crazy.
same. i saw this pic where you point your toes outward on the leg extensions to develop it, but it’s not working.
Only thing that ever grew my tear drop more than ever was hack squats
You can target it, you can't isolate it.
My slant board says otherwise
Well kneesovertoesguy begs to differ
He has come out and said that he does agree the vmo cannot be isolated, but like squat university, they agree that going deeper and increasing the overall knee flexion in the squat can preferentially strengthen the Vmo whilst still strengthening the quad overall
@@remdabomb Thank you man. Some of these comments are ridiculous. It’s like they didn’t even bother listening to the video.
There is non homogenous hypertrophy so this short is wrong. Depending on the exercise and when the muscle has to perform the most it can lead to heterogenic hypertrophy.
My vmo is the most developed part of my quad. I want to activate the rest of my quad more.
lol
IMO you can by doing the bottom half of a leg extension with toes pointed out
I tried isolating my VMO once...and got banned from Plant Fitness.
sounds like terrible management I go to planet fitness and unless your rude they don't care what you do
😂😂😂
Cycling has grown my VMO/quad disproportionally to everything else
Ps love the content
when you said cycling i thought you were talking about a different cycling lol
@@sylokthedefiled 💉💉
@@sylokthedefiled ahahaha cycling on cycle 🤝
I had vmo trouble for years. I fought it temporarily with foam rolling. But some days, I had to skip a leg workout or have a dismal one. When I rode my bike, the problem went away immediately
For me the best way to target it are step ups on a box thats close to the height of my knee. Yes i feel all of the quad working but the vmo burns like hell when i'm done with it.
Do split squats and the teardrop will explode
I realized i hav great upper lef thickness, but my teardrops are lagging. I decided to yry a few sets of lef extensions with my feet wider apart and toes pointed outward. I used a maximum of 120lbs for very slow strict reps. After getting off the machine, BOTH teardrops cramped, badly. I could barley bend my legs, and had to stretch for quite a while and massage them before attempting to leave the gym. For the record i dont ever get muscle cramps, and dont believe in stretching before workouts, just good warmups.
You may not be able to isolate it, but you can preferentially train it, squat deep my friends
Not sure what language this video was in
On leg extensions you sure can
Might as well say this about any exercise though since no single muscle can ever be completely isolated
Pretty much. Lateral raises for example will always involve the serratus anterior, scapular muscles, and other deep muscle BUT you can take tension of the traps which are the only muscle that will actually affect the intensity of the lateral delt. When it comes to rear delts you can pretty much isolate 100% but it will involve more activation in the triceps but that's OK.
I dunno I've heard the VMO grows best from single leg work. And I've mostly squated and done leg extensions. And my outer sweep is good but my inner sweep is very lackluster.
I care more about the guy in the beginning that just squated but to grass with what looks to be three or more plates with ease
Perhaps, but there are definitely exercises/variations I can do that make me feel it there more than other exercises. Whatever the reasoning behind it, it works. Even if you told me it was all placebo (which I doubt) that would still be fine with me.
Yes. You can’t make the VMO do ALL OF THE WORK. But you can create a greater emphasis on the VMO and drive focused work through that area and create near direct strength and hypertrophy gains as if you were isolating it. You’re correct on a technicality but not in practice. This is horribly deceiving information and I encourage you to do two things. 1st, take a set of Reverse Nordics to failure while holding say 10-20% of body weight and let us know how those legs feel afterwards. 2nd, take the video down and do a proper restatement of your information because your claim “you can’t hit the VMO” is complete and utter non-sense when you apply proper full range movements. This goes for all deep knee-bending extension movements.
Why is this controversial? Bodybuilders have been isolating different pieces of muscles for decades (long head vs short head triceps anyone?)
Why would there be 4 different heads to the quad if they didn't serve slightly different functions?
@Kneesovertoesguy wants to know your location.
Can’t isolate but you can find ways to better target VMO.
Close feet leg press heels at the bottom of leg press will target tear drops.
Literally watch all your videos && smash the thumbs UP everytime. Let's get this man an award yall 💪
Poliquin step up?
I always feel like that spot in my quads gets smaaaashed when i do 5-10 miles on a recumbant bike with high resistance
You cant but you can
Please more info on how to get quad coordination back when vmo is inhibited!
anyone else do front squats and you have an action where you squat into the balls of your feet and then return to heels? Feels natural and powerful.
I have knee problems (just a little more crepitation and discomfort in the right vs left), so my left leg is my “stronger” leg because it reaches better depth during squats and lifts more of the weight because I shift to the right. My left VMO is wayyy bigger than the right. So I’m assuming I should start light again and work my way up to restore balance?
I always have trouble growing that part of the quad. I've been doing elevated goblet squats and it's working, but ever so slightly.
he spends .5 seconds at the end saying you can preferentially target the VMO but then says you shouldn't. if you VMO was weak or damaged targeting it makes sense to me.
Sounds good
You 100% can isolate the vmo
Kneesovertoesguy fans are hurt from this
I haven’t paid enough attention to Ben’s exact words but he is certainly onto something with targeting the VMO but likely not “isolating”
What he said basically backs up what Ben says anyways
Imagine being so dumb to comment that. What are you ? Like 13 ?
This is an old argument concerning muscles. Old muscle groups work together to support movement. However, depending on the angle, position and joint rotation, muscle can and are emphasized. This is a biological, anatomical and scientific fact... period.
kneeovertoesguy what's up bro jk
Cyclist have huge VMO's, probably from pressing into the pedal from quarter depth
You can isolate it with an EMS pad :)
Raise your heels which will increase range
I just try to isolate it AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE with a leg extension machine.
that aside, this guy has massive quads
So does it help with knee pain?
100%
Tell that to knees over toes guy. He seems to think you can.
He never said that.
He said you can prefer it more when you go for a full knee bend like 140 degree or beyond.
m.ruclips.net/video/aF9dWYfloOQ/видео.html See 1:09. There is also a short where Ben explains this further.
Isolate nothing, how do I get that wide squat stance?
Bs. If a muscle exists after millions of years of evolution, it has a function. Therefore, it can be targeted by utilizing that function. The only question is how exactly is the best way.
Idk why everyone doesn’t call that muscle the VMO (Vastus medialis oblique) instead of the vastus medialis drives me crazy.
Thanks..for saying something sensible. It's rare these days
does that mean i can unbias the vmo and focus on the vastus lateralis instead? if so how?
Why my vmo have pain after intense training basketball how to fix it?
VMO the only muscle that activates for me I’m trying to hit that laterallis
Tom platz used to do sissy squats at the heck press to get a more tear drop shaped muscle on his leg.
It's true you can't isolate it but you can certainly sell a program around it!
"Integrating the entire kinetic chain" isn't as marketable 😌
what program?
Kneesovertoes guy thinks you can isolate or at least focus
Mine grew quite a lot after running the program.
As a black man I'm jealous of his VMO but I feel superior because I have bigger calves that his.
Google teardrop squat
Is it good that even after acl surgery and losing alot of leg muscle i can flex either my whole quad or just the tear drop part
James 1:17
yikes bro more inaccurate information
To isolate vmo, put your legs closer
Its like saying im gonna leg extend one third of my leg
My VMO is abnormally large for me
Shiiittt, that just ruined my leg day
Of course you can’t. And nobody said you need or would ever want to. What a ridiculous post. Trying to sound smarter than people giving actual useful advice to improve knee function in this manner has exactly the opposite effect. The squat is a compound movement, so popular precisely because it works so many key muscles in one movement.
Then don’t watch the damn video
What an odd, this is specially for people with VMO problems
So internally rotating my hips does nothing?
IR of the hips would put the VM and VMOF at a disadvantage
Close stance cyclist squat says hi
It’s not that deep 😂
So is this like the anti Ben channel?
What nonsense are you talking about?? You can literally isolate a few fibers at a time, just try it. Twitch the part by your knee just a tiny little bit. See how the whole entire muscle didn’t go poof? srlsy ppl
I have 2 weeks trying get deep squat, my back hurts :(
I agree with the other guy that it is likely how you are bracing. Also make sure you warm up properly with a lot of controlled, dynamic stretching to open up the hips. The image that helps me is keeping my core all engaged, but trying to push my belly to the ground at the bottom of the squat.
Make sure you’re not leaning forward too much
I will try everything recommended by you guys, thank you very much
I don’t even want to isolate my VMO.
Try cycling... Look at cyclist legs