That young Paleoman in that picture was a knapping machine back in those days, haha! There is no way I could knap all day for 8-10 straight days now. There was a local lady who claimed to be the great grand daughter of sitting bull stopping by the apple house everyday and she would give us sore and tired workers a shoulder and neck massage, which felt pretty darn good. Her name was Rosie Bull, I'll never forget her. I could really use that massage now a days, haha!
Thanks David, it was pretty exciting and I am so grateful that I was asked to join the Buffalo crew on this adventure. They knew that I loved knapping and that was the task they gave me to do to earn my keep. DC Waldorf was the other knapper that was there and he mainly knapped at the Museum in Wenatchee where the Points were displayed. I have so many stories to tell about all of this.
When we were there, they were scanning the surrounding ground with ground penetrating radar, and several anomalies showed up, leading them to believe there were more things scattered around that area. When the site was finished that year, it was refilled and covered with a large slab of cement. It would have been pretty difficult to sneak in there to dig as a very busy county road ran just 15 feet away from the cache site. I have made one Wenatchee type Clovis that was around 9" so far.
Thanks so much qcypointhunter! Those casts are awesome! They were really well done and no details were left out. I was also impressed with the multitude of tools that were also found and the materials these artifacts were made out of. If you get time, google the Richey clovis cache and check out the images of this cache.
You're so right Joe, I was really blessed to have this experience. It's so strange how life is, and how meeting just one person can change the whole direction your life can take. I met a fellow from the Buffalo area that came to my house after my brother in law sold a Christmas tree to him at a tree farm. He was on the board at the Buffalo Museum of Science and took me under his wing and included me on all activities the museum was involved in. Wenatchee was one of those things!
That's a good theory about those points, the main object would be to open up a gaping wound that would bleed the animal out. I personally think these large knives were used for butchering the animals they killed. A few years ago there was an article published in the Ohio Archaeologist magazine about blood samples that were recovered underneath the small hinge flakes on these blades. All different kinds of blood was identified, including human blood, possibly from the man that knapped them.
You're so right, that look of amazement is genuine, and hard to describe. When you consider what you are holding and how long it has been since human eyes have looked at it and how skillfully it was made, it is mind overload! When that photo was taken that blade was just handed to me from DC Waldorf. The archaeologist told me to look up and that is the face of wonder that you see.
I was fortunate to see a similar obsidian blade as your cast found by a retired teacher in Carlsbad Ca. who uncovered it when digging a hole for a fruit tree in his front yard. It was unfluted but had two small notches at the base as if for a cord attachment. Given the closeness of the ocean, it is easy to visualize this blade used while butchering a large seal or whale carcass that had washed up and the cord attached to the blade to prevent dropping it. It was 10 inches long and the age of it was apparent by the patina or hydration of the obsidian itself. thanks for sharing.
I think you are right about the material making the different on the flute length. I know if I successfully made a beautiful 9" blade out of agate I sure would be nervous about whacking it too hard on the end and causing the blade to snap. I think those flutes were probably just the length they needed them to be for hafting them onto those bone rods. I feel that the nubs on the obsidian point were there for support when they were held in a frame work and then fluted. Just my opinion though.
Had to be beyond wonderful to be on site when some of this stuff was excavated, and be one of the first to hold them for thousands of years! We are darn lucky that the irrigation ditch digger knew what he was uncovering!! I'll have read up on the Rutz point! I may have read about it in the past, but can't recall at this time. I'll check out Paleoplanet too - sounds like a fascinating site! Tnx a ton 4 sharing Ken!
That's a very good question. I think there are a few thousand knappers in just this country alone. Some are more well known than others, but there are usually many more in areas where there is a good source of knapping stone! Missouri, Texas, Ohio, Oregon (for Obsidian), all have large available sources of knappable rock. The new stone age has begun and will continue to grow as long as the stone holds out.
Thanks Flintspall, I think what you see in that cache is what a person that lived in those times had with them on a daily basis to survive. There were preforms, scrapers, points that were in different stages of completion and so on. One can only wonder why all that stuff was left in that spot other than maybe it was cached and the owner planned on returning to the area to retrieve them at some point in time but never did. That Rutz point is a whole other story, but it was found nearby.
Thanks for watching Billie, There should be a lot of information on the net about that site. It probably goes by the name of the Richey Clovis cache. Richey was the owner of the apple orchard these points were found it. I took lots of video and pictures while I was out there, maybe someday I'll get the movies converted into digital format and put up some vids on Wenatchee.
I've been admiring those wonderful finds you've made Rocky Top Relics! What you found is much more typical. I believe the reasons that small points were made was probably 2 things; smaller materials to work with, and smaller game to hunt. In the Wenatchee area the glacial ice had just recently retreated and the rock was exposed and laying around for easy pickings. The first animals to come through were mega fauna so bigger tools were needed.
I have talked many times with both DC and Val, Val was a awesome person and probably held the originals more than anyone they were some of the points that really got me Clovis knapping and the material was top drawer stuff thanks for sharing this (Idaho Clovisman)
Thanks indychief78, I do believe those bone rods were the fore-shafts of the large blades. They were all found together and were probably from an early tool/survival kit that the hunter that left them made and used.
Amazing story and glad you shared it with us...super kewl to have the casts to go with the story. You have the same look holding that blade that Neralich had when he was holding his...thats what it's all about. Making the mind explode with wonder..thanks again!!
That had to be an awesome trip and experience Ken ! To hold one of those would be just too cool....whether it was a Clovis or not ! I'm sure that's not something you would forget easily . Thanks for sharing that and the pic of the young stud....LOL
Thanks Brooksy, yep these were supersized blades that's for sure! The skill it took those guys to make these is incredible and to hold their work in your hands is an experience that can't be described with words but is felt with strong emotions. I am impressed by the things that we as humans can do and I'll never refer to these people or other Indian folks as primitive, because they had skills we wish we had!
Beautiful! Ties in with "nub theory" by the looks of 'em........This is really really impressive! It makes sense those bone components could be split foreshafts.......
Thanks lazyknapper for the comments! Bigger was better for those folks, that's for sure, haha! That Rutz point is very interesting, if you examine it closely you can see that it was resharpened many times after the initial fluting. The numbs have always been an intriguing mystery but some of the Wenatchee Clovis's had those nubs too. My first initial reaction to those nubs was that they placed them on there as support for the holding device they used in fluting the point.
When I purchased those casts right after I returned home from Wenatchee I had to dig into my piggy bank because they weren't cheap and these casts are from the first ones made. Dr. Gramley offered them to all of us that went out and worked at the site. My wife wasn't thrilled that I was buying them back in those days but she understood why I had to have them.
I always thought they were so large was because they were used as multi purpose tools, mainly large knives! Remember too that when those people came into that area the glacial ice had just receded and the rock was exposed and easy to find. I'm sure they could find the biggest and best pieces of stone to work. At that time mega fauna was on the dinner menu, and one mammoth fed your hungry group a very long time, plus provided many other resources for their daily needs.
It was mind blowing for me Craig. I was so new to this whole scene as I just started collecting artifacts on the fields around my area a few short years before I was asked to go out and be part of this amazing discovery. I had read about this find in the October 1988 edition of the National Geographic magazine and never imagined at that time I would go there and hold those awesome artifacts. It was a once in a lifetime experience!
Fascinating.. It must have been an excellent adventure and a thrilling expierence to hold points and see the actual artifacts from a significant find such as that. Awsome point casts, awsome video . Loved hearing you tell about your trip and what you did . Thank you so much fpor sharing. .
Thanks Richard, the size of those points just blew me away, and the cool thing for me was I had just gotten into collecting artifacts and knapping. I had read about the discovery of this site in the Oct. 1988 edition of the National Geographic magazine. I never dreamed I would ever go there and help with further excavation! There were many politics going on at the time with the site that I would love to share with you sometime.
Thanks for watching Rob and Terrie! Those casts feel perfect in your hands and with the addition of the real Wenatchee soil on the back side of the large points the only difference is the weight. I held the originals in my hands and I can tell you this. The knapper/s that made them were highly skilled stone workers.
I've seen a bit about the cache,but more particularly,about the Rutz.There were utube vids about it,with opinions about the knobs on it,but I can't remember the philosophy now.I image that was a thrill to be there,and witness the excavation site.Did you ever get a count on the number of points dug up? Do you think the cache was preforms,in the sense that they really didn't appear to have finished edgework?
I wish we could go back to those days and see what life was really like for those people. We only find the stones they left behind, I would love to see what ele they made out of wood, leather and so on. I really believe those big points were butchering knives!
Thanks! I'm sure you will find this story quite interesting, lots of interesting things happened with this site and as far as I know there is still a good sized portion left to be excavated. So the story isn't totally told yet.
I agree with everything you said, When you see those bone fore shafts layed against the fluted area of the big agate points, they fit perfectly. All they need to do was to make a splint of wood to lay on the other side for tying the point onto that bone shaft. It would form a sort of clothes pin grip on the point.
man what a great vid. I think are blessed just to see the site ,and to touch one of those blades,wow. and the fact that you knapped there for demos for the people is sick. thanks for this story.
at the time I knew it was a pretty big deal being there, but it really didn't totally sink in until a few years later. Those eyes pretty much tell the feelings I had the moment I held that big blade. It was damp and brightly colored shades of red. It was made out of carnelian and still cold as it had just been released from its long earthy slumber. All the tools and points were so much bigger than anything I had ever seen up to that point!
Very impressive history! Very nice castings! They look so real till you pick them up! Little bit on the lite side. Must of been nice to of been there. Thanks for sharing!
What organic tools do you think we're used to produce these large fluted Bifaces? I have always wondered what the stone itself would be like to work with the tools that were applied. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and this great video.
Fascinating story Ken and those repro points or blades are massive but love that black one! I could only imagine the excitement of being there and seeing such incredible pieces come from the ground!! Great story mate
I was a younger, more energetic Paleoman back in those days and as you can imagine, I was running on pure adrenaline while I was there. I could go on for hours with stories about this experience that I could share with you. It was one of the most thrilling times of my life! My roommate while I was there was the owner of the famous Lamb Clovis site from western New York State, (google that one). Chris and I had a blast the whole time there and met some great people.
Great vid, Ken! I've read the little book and seen the pictures of those, but seeing that fantastic set of casts in your hand really puts it into perspective! They were hunting some real megafauna with those bad boys! Soooo cool that you were actually there...holy chit! What a great experience =)
You say none of the flutes are very long but what about the black one the flute goes 3/4 the way up? Can you explain why that one's so different, regarding the oversized flute, was it accidental.?
The flute on the black one is longer because that blade was made out of obsidian and was not found with the white agate blades but was found a ways from there up on Badger mountain if I remember correctly, it has been 32 years since I was there.
Washington state and the Columbia river is a archeologists heaven. Some of the most beautiful points come from the area which is also rich in knappable lithic resources.
Rob V. It's so incredibly hard to find them now a days too, I live up here and go hunting along the Columbia River but surface finds are really scarce and is actually considered illegal if you pick them up unless you're on private property but the material is incredible as well as the workmanship.
When I was there, there weren't any distinguishing features prevalent. It appears that this cache was just that, a big bag of tools, preform, knives, points and bone rods. It was speculated that this may have been left to be retrieved at a future time by the owner/s as they migrated through the area following the game.
This was the hardest thing for me to understand when we were there. There were a ton of politics going on and I could tell you some long detailed stories of what occurred but the archaeologist were only allowed to did so far and leave the rest in the ground. I understand it all better now. The points to the left are my Onondaga points I featured in a video a while back! Just above them is my collection of Hard Rock cafe pins from all over the world.
Thanks kennyhooten, I not only saw and touched these artifacts but drank some of the rinse water that came off the largest of the 3 white agate blades. Haha! In a nut shell the archaeologist that was in charge of the dig and cleaning of the artifacts came out of the lab in the apple house and passed this bottle of Jack Daniels around and told us all to take a sip, after we did, he announced it was the rinse water off the points, I ran outside afterward and chugged 2 beers to dilute it. LOL!
that is cool stuff man, i gave a few presentations on clovis sites in new mexico and arkansas when i was president of the archaeological society here, i have to find my slides and make a few vids to put on here. That would be amazing to have the honor that you had to go and not only see, but touch those artifacts, Awesome man, love this video.
Joe H. had one, longer than yours and made of translucent banded red jasper. he used to take it round with his other artifacts and do talks to groups like the Boy Scouts. Then one day he dropped it on to a concrete floor while showing it off, DING!, into a thousand pieces, like glass. Ya know where Joe found it? By a curb, someones relatives had thrown someones entire relic collection out in the trash. Joe told me he loaded it all into his station wagon and that it was so heavy his axle was almost scraping the ground. (an old horror story by a member of The Philadelphia Mineral Society) they had quite a few of those, all ending badly.
man!!! ii was a junior in hs then i was ready to go level an apple orchard lucky you gettin to be there whats the story on the points on the left of ur pic?? repros also??
The Paleo flaking is just incredible when you see it and think about the skill of the knappers of those days. This was a wonderful story Paleoman...How did you hold up to 10 days of straight knapping and archeological investigation...lol..sounds rough..A lot of fun I bet!!..Those casts are impressive looking..Just the detail in those is quite amazing..Nice to know if you drop one its not the end of the world..I really like that bone foreshaft theory!...Ben
That is amazing to see clovis points of that magnitude!! True mammoth slayers!! Always intriguing to see big points like that..the biggest clovis found around my little patch of grounds was maybe 3" the two in my collection are both under 3".dont really know the reasoning behind that...seems all time periods they produced smalls...any suggestions on that?..thanks for sharing!!
How wonderful...A pic of you holding a freshly pulled Wenatchee point ... priceless !!! I think it's cool they are leaving points in the ground still, there for future improved science techniques to be applied on !!! Man how tempting for the locals ... Hey , you up for a Mission Impossible ???
I'm impressed with the skills those early knappers had to make those big monsters. Not only are they big but they are thin too. That agate is some pretty tough stone to work, I'll bet they had ivory billets because it would have been plentiful and its harder than antler or bone.
What qualified you for a trip to Washington to check out such a famous site? How cool that must have been to be there and find more pieces!!! What made that area such an attraction to the Native Americans?
very cool! thanks for showing. i wonder sometimes if some fluted points were meant to slide off the shaft and stay in the prey, then just reload your spear...?
Jason, I thought of you immediately when I shot this video, and we need to talk sometime because we have a lot of things we could talk about. There is so much more I could say about this experience, but I don't want to bore everyone with tons of details. Our group had dinner and met with the owner of the site numerous times and I could tell you lots of interesting facts about all the drama that occurred out there. You need to come to the mancave my friend!
If you come up and see me sometime, I will tell you hours of stories I have about that site in Wenatchee. I wrote a lot of them down in the book I have been writing about my life as a knapper. I have the book written but I need to have it edited and published someday.
I agree, I think many of the tools they made were multi purpose tools. It would be way more practical to make one tool to do several different tasks that to make a tool for each task.
Awesome video on this subject. I've been in awe of these points since i first heard about them a several years ago. I'm sure it takes great skill to make a Clovis of that size. I am a little surprised the flutes aren't as long on the 3 white points as they are on the obsidian point, but that probably has something to do with the material, right?
That was the trip of a lifetime for me. I loved the area this site was in. It was my only time that far west and the scenery was incredible. The artifacts were the icing on the cake for me.
That sounds like the Clovis cache that was found on the Lamb Farm. I got to participate in that dig and found the bottom of the only Flintridge Clovis in the cache.
WOW, cant imagine being part of that "history of prehistory", heard about, read about it, seeing your "bug" eyes in that photo as your handling a piece of it says it all. Darn things didn't fit on my screen.
what a stellar story &vidra,man how lucky could 1 be to get asked to come to a site like that as its still being discovered! i alwaz forget the guys name from the smithsonian,but him & many others believe the BIG Clovis Cashes, were actual sacrificial cashes,offerings to the great spirit so they may have a bountiful hunt or something,because of all the Clovis Points found that arent made as thin&big, every mastadon dig w/clovis points are never that big,case points are the only 1's that way/size
Whaling would be perfect for these large points! They were quite far from the ocean though and I personally think they killed the mamoths and other large game with some of the smaller points in the assemblage and used these huge blades for butchering. The blood samples that were recovered under some of the small thumbnail hinge fractures tested for many different types of animal blood plus human blood. The article is in a past issue of the Ohio Archaeologist magazine if you can find it.
I was not qualified to be invited on this adventure actually, I was asked because the Buffalo Museum of Science was going to conduct the excavation after it was shut down in 1988, long story there! I was friends with a member on the museum board and he asked me to go and do flintknapping demos and talks at the site as part of and educational tour that was set up while we were there. The area was just east of the Cascade mountains and the Columbia river was nearby. Lots of open plains there.
Too many. I live fairly close to Pritchett, Colorado where Marvin McCormick made all his fake paleo, especially Folsoms and sold them as authentic. Fact is I have 2 of his points and because of the fame associated with McCormick I'm proud to have them in my extensive collection from the Southern High Plains but have never passed them off as authentic and never will. There are many McCormick Folsom displayed in museums being confused with authentic and this is how the modern knapper hurts us all. ele.net/mccormick/mccormick.htm
I believe you, I found a 7 1/2 inch clovis close to the Columbia River ( I won't disclose to anyone) and return often, its on private land and more often then not do I walk away with something in the form of native American tools....
Post a picture of your 7.5 inch clovis. It can be with total anonymity if you are worried about repercussions. Any Clovis point found should be added to the Clovis database that has been created for such finds. Especially a 7.5 inch point. That is at the extreme for that kind of point, the majority found are in the neighborhood of 4-6 inches. Make it available for castings to be made instead of hiding it in a shoebox stored in your closet.
I have given a number of pieces to agency's of such with the understanding I would receive a acknowledgment after their findings, 11 years and still waiting... They have put them away in their drawers and the public isn't able to see or enjoy them... I know a number of collectors who have experienced the same and also now feel the same way.. I have since given my small collection to other worthy collectors who show theirs at different functions ....
Woow amazing i was reading. the other day. about some one bought The biggest. clovis about 9 inch Plus size. was It You. The person. who bought. It? for 276,000$? on auction. The person. who,bought. It was From Texas. and had The same tatto. of The clovis on his calf. i have a colecction. of points. do You. buy.?
Claudia Vargas Unfortunately Claudia it wasn't me that bought that large obsidian Clovis point, all I could afford is the cast of it you see here. I also collect points but only the ones I find.
Alabama, Points, real points, why let it known., i get it about finding something ,that most cant imigine seeing, rare or not, soon like all will be no more, my self i hunted daily, un speakable finds, over kill on something is bad , i mean on every thing. soon every one has it , or worse , nothing to leave history to belive . but hear say. it a rock now where it once meant something..
wow clovis points are well made
That young Paleoman in that picture was a knapping machine back in those days, haha! There is no way I could knap all day for 8-10 straight days now. There was a local lady who claimed to be the great grand daughter of sitting bull stopping by the apple house everyday and she would give us sore and tired workers a shoulder and neck massage, which felt pretty darn good. Her name was Rosie Bull, I'll never forget her. I could really use that massage now a days, haha!
Thanks David, it was pretty exciting and I am so grateful that I was asked to join the Buffalo crew on this adventure. They knew that I loved knapping and that was the task they gave me to do to earn my keep. DC Waldorf was the other knapper that was there and he mainly knapped at the Museum in Wenatchee where the Points were displayed. I have so many stories to tell about all of this.
When we were there, they were scanning the surrounding ground with ground penetrating radar, and several anomalies showed up, leading them to believe there were more things scattered around that area. When the site was finished that year, it was refilled and covered with a large slab of cement. It would have been pretty difficult to sneak in there to dig as a very busy county road ran just 15 feet away from the cache site. I have made one Wenatchee type Clovis that was around 9" so far.
Thanks so much qcypointhunter! Those casts are awesome! They were really well done and no details were left out. I was also impressed with the multitude of tools that were also found and the materials these artifacts were made out of. If you get time, google the Richey clovis cache and check out the images of this cache.
You're so right Joe, I was really blessed to have this experience. It's so strange how life is, and how meeting just one person can change the whole direction your life can take. I met a fellow from the Buffalo area that came to my house after my brother in law sold a Christmas tree to him at a tree farm. He was on the board at the Buffalo Museum of Science and took me under his wing and included me on all activities the museum was involved in. Wenatchee was one of those things!
That's a good theory about those points, the main object would be to open up a gaping wound that would bleed the animal out. I personally think these large knives were used for butchering the animals they killed. A few years ago there was an article published in the Ohio Archaeologist magazine about blood samples that were recovered underneath the small hinge flakes on these blades. All different kinds of blood was identified, including human blood, possibly from the man that knapped them.
man, Ken that must have been something, to go and do and see that. thanks for showing such cool castings.
Great to hear a recount of that historical find and your participation. Thanks for sharing the story.
You're so right, that look of amazement is genuine, and hard to describe. When you consider what you are holding and how long it has been since human eyes have looked at it and how skillfully it was made, it is mind overload! When that photo was taken that blade was just handed to me from DC Waldorf. The archaeologist told me to look up and that is the face of wonder that you see.
Thanks Tom, It was something I'll always remember and a good topic to share around the campfire!
I was fortunate to see a similar obsidian blade as your cast found by a retired teacher in Carlsbad Ca. who uncovered it when digging a hole for a fruit tree in his front yard. It was unfluted but had two small notches at the base as if for a cord attachment. Given the closeness of the ocean, it is easy to visualize this blade used while butchering a large seal or whale carcass that had washed up and the cord attached to the blade to prevent dropping it. It was 10 inches long and the age of it was apparent by the patina or hydration of the obsidian itself. thanks for sharing.
I think you are right about the material making the different on the flute length. I know if I successfully made a beautiful 9" blade out of agate I sure would be nervous about whacking it too hard on the end and causing the blade to snap. I think those flutes were probably just the length they needed them to be for hafting them onto those bone rods. I feel that the nubs on the obsidian point were there for support when they were held in a frame work and then fluted. Just my opinion though.
Had to be beyond wonderful to be on site when some of this stuff was excavated, and be one of the first to hold them for thousands of years! We are darn lucky that the irrigation ditch digger knew what he was uncovering!! I'll have read up on the Rutz point! I may have read about it in the past, but can't recall at this time. I'll check out Paleoplanet too - sounds like a fascinating site! Tnx a ton 4 sharing Ken!
That's a very good question. I think there are a few thousand knappers in just this country alone. Some are more well known than others, but there are usually many more in areas where there is a good source of knapping stone! Missouri, Texas, Ohio, Oregon (for Obsidian), all have large available sources of knappable rock. The new stone age has begun and will continue to grow as long as the stone holds out.
Thanks Flintspall, I think what you see in that cache is what a person that lived in those times had with them on a daily basis to survive. There were preforms, scrapers, points that were in different stages of completion and so on. One can only wonder why all that stuff was left in that spot other than maybe it was cached and the owner planned on returning to the area to retrieve them at some point in time but never did. That Rutz point is a whole other story, but it was found nearby.
Thanks for watching Billie, There should be a lot of information on the net about that site. It probably goes by the name of the Richey Clovis cache. Richey was the owner of the apple orchard these points were found it. I took lots of video and pictures while I was out there, maybe someday I'll get the movies converted into digital format and put up some vids on Wenatchee.
I've been admiring those wonderful finds you've made Rocky Top Relics! What you found is much more typical. I believe the reasons that small points were made was probably 2 things; smaller materials to work with, and smaller game to hunt. In the Wenatchee area the glacial ice had just recently retreated and the rock was exposed and laying around for easy pickings. The first animals to come through were mega fauna so bigger tools were needed.
I have talked many times with both DC and Val, Val was a awesome person and probably held the originals more than anyone they were some of the points that really got me Clovis knapping and the material was top drawer stuff thanks for sharing this (Idaho Clovisman)
Thanks indychief78, I do believe those bone rods were the fore-shafts of the large blades. They were all found together and were probably from an early tool/survival kit that the hunter that left them made and used.
Amazing story and glad you shared it with us...super kewl to have the casts to go with the story. You have the same look holding that blade that Neralich had when he was holding his...thats what it's all about. Making the mind explode with wonder..thanks again!!
That had to be an awesome trip and experience Ken ! To hold one of those would be just too cool....whether it was a Clovis or not ! I'm sure that's not something you would forget easily .
Thanks for sharing that and the pic of the young stud....LOL
Thanks Brooksy, yep these were supersized blades that's for sure! The skill it took those guys to make these is incredible and to hold their work in your hands is an experience that can't be described with words but is felt with strong emotions. I am impressed by the things that we as humans can do and I'll never refer to these people or other Indian folks as primitive, because they had skills we wish we had!
Beautiful! Ties in with "nub theory" by the looks of 'em........This is really really impressive! It makes sense those bone components could be split foreshafts.......
Thanks lazyknapper for the comments! Bigger was better for those folks, that's for sure, haha! That Rutz point is very interesting, if you examine it closely you can see that it was resharpened many times after the initial fluting. The numbs have always been an intriguing mystery but some of the Wenatchee Clovis's had those nubs too. My first initial reaction to those nubs was that they placed them on there as support for the holding device they used in fluting the point.
When I purchased those casts right after I returned home from Wenatchee I had to dig into my piggy bank because they weren't cheap and these casts are from the first ones made. Dr. Gramley offered them to all of us that went out and worked at the site. My wife wasn't thrilled that I was buying them back in those days but she understood why I had to have them.
I always thought they were so large was because they were used as multi purpose tools, mainly large knives! Remember too that when those people came into that area the glacial ice had just receded and the rock was exposed and easy to find. I'm sure they could find the biggest and best pieces of stone to work. At that time mega fauna was on the dinner menu, and one mammoth fed your hungry group a very long time, plus provided many other resources for their daily needs.
It was mind blowing for me Craig. I was so new to this whole scene as I just started collecting artifacts on the fields around my area a few short years before I was asked to go out and be part of this amazing discovery. I had read about this find in the October 1988 edition of the National Geographic magazine and never imagined at that time I would go there and hold those awesome artifacts. It was a once in a lifetime experience!
I'll be sure to take a look and get back to you!
Back in time with ya Bud~! One year after i even began finding anything!
Great stuff! What an amazing job they did on those casts! I'm gonna looks this up and do some reading on it! Thanks!! Ga. Rob & Terrie
Fascinating.. It must have been an excellent adventure and a thrilling expierence to hold points and see the actual artifacts from a significant find such as that. Awsome point casts, awsome video . Loved hearing you tell about your trip and what you did .
Thank you so much fpor sharing. .
Thanks Richard, the size of those points just blew me away, and the cool thing for me was I had just gotten into collecting artifacts and knapping. I had read about the discovery of this site in the Oct. 1988 edition of the National Geographic magazine. I never dreamed I would ever go there and help with further excavation! There were many politics going on at the time with the site that I would love to share with you sometime.
Thanks for watching Rob and Terrie! Those casts feel perfect in your hands and with the addition of the real Wenatchee soil on the back side of the large points the only difference is the weight. I held the originals in my hands and I can tell you this. The knapper/s that made them were highly skilled stone workers.
Them points are awesome. You know they delt with some big game.
Thanks for showing - very interesting cache. I will try to read up on it more!
I've seen a bit about the cache,but more particularly,about the Rutz.There were utube vids about it,with opinions about the knobs on it,but I can't remember the philosophy now.I image that was a thrill to be there,and witness the excavation site.Did you ever get a count on the number of points dug up? Do you think the cache was preforms,in the sense that they really didn't appear to have finished edgework?
I wish we could go back to those days and see what life was really like for those people. We only find the stones they left behind, I would love to see what ele they made out of wood, leather and so on. I really believe those big points were butchering knives!
OMG what a collection...Thanks for sharing the story and casts...they r so cool to see
Thanks! I'm sure you will find this story quite interesting, lots of interesting things happened with this site and as far as I know there is still a good sized portion left to be excavated. So the story isn't totally told yet.
I agree with everything you said, When you see those bone fore shafts layed against the fluted area of the big agate points, they fit perfectly. All they need to do was to make a splint of wood to lay on the other side for tying the point onto that bone shaft. It would form a sort of clothes pin grip on the point.
man what a great vid.
I think are blessed just to see the site ,and to touch one of those blades,wow.
and the fact that you knapped there for demos for the people is sick.
thanks for this story.
I``d never seen period clovis points anywhere near that size before. Thanks for sharing.
at the time I knew it was a pretty big deal being there, but it really didn't totally sink in until a few years later. Those eyes pretty much tell the feelings I had the moment I held that big blade. It was damp and brightly colored shades of red. It was made out of carnelian and still cold as it had just been released from its long earthy slumber. All the tools and points were so much bigger than anything I had ever seen up to that point!
Very impressive history! Very nice castings! They look so real till you pick them up! Little bit on the lite side. Must of been nice to of been there. Thanks for sharing!
Man oh man....can you imagine the size of beast they were huntin' with those things?!!....pretty freakin' scary when you think about it!!!
Thanks gtrpkr1, that point is out there waiting for you to find it, because it does exist somewhere!
What organic tools do you think we're used to produce these large fluted Bifaces? I have always wondered what the stone itself would be like to work with the tools that were applied. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and this great video.
I have believed for quite some time that they may have used billets made out of Ivory that they procured from the mammoth tusks.
Fascinating story Ken and those repro points or blades are massive but love that black one! I could only imagine the excitement of being there and seeing such incredible pieces come from the ground!! Great story mate
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I was a younger, more energetic Paleoman back in those days and as you can imagine, I was running on pure adrenaline while I was there. I could go on for hours with stories about this experience that I could share with you. It was one of the most thrilling times of my life! My roommate while I was there was the owner of the famous Lamb Clovis site from western New York State, (google that one). Chris and I had a blast the whole time there and met some great people.
Great vid, Ken! I've read the little book and seen the pictures of those, but seeing that fantastic set of casts in your hand really puts it into perspective! They were hunting some real megafauna with those bad boys! Soooo cool that you were actually there...holy chit! What a great experience =)
You KNOW you don't need THESE to kill deer or even black bear. Mammoth, giant sloth- definitely.
Thanks Mr. Ken really neat story will have to look it up . Billie thetnrelichunter
You say none of the flutes are very long but what about the black one the flute goes 3/4 the way up? Can you explain why that one's so different, regarding the oversized flute, was it accidental.?
The flute on the black one is longer because that blade was made out of obsidian and was not found with the white agate blades but was found a ways from there up on Badger mountain if I remember correctly, it has been 32 years since I was there.
Washington state and the Columbia river is a archeologists heaven. Some of the most beautiful points come from the area which is also rich in knappable lithic resources.
Rob V. It's so incredibly hard to find them now a days too, I live up here and go hunting along the Columbia River but surface finds are really scarce and is actually considered illegal if you pick them up unless you're on private property but the material is incredible as well as the workmanship.
Luther Cressman country!
When I was there, there weren't any distinguishing features prevalent. It appears that this cache was just that, a big bag of tools, preform, knives, points and bone rods. It was speculated that this may have been left to be retrieved at a future time by the owner/s as they migrated through the area following the game.
This was the hardest thing for me to understand when we were there. There were a ton of politics going on and I could tell you some long detailed stories of what occurred but the archaeologist were only allowed to did so far and leave the rest in the ground. I understand it all better now. The points to the left are my Onondaga points I featured in a video a while back! Just above them is my collection of Hard Rock cafe pins from all over the world.
Thanks kennyhooten, I not only saw and touched these artifacts but drank some of the rinse water that came off the largest of the 3 white agate blades. Haha! In a nut shell the archaeologist that was in charge of the dig and cleaning of the artifacts came out of the lab in the apple house and passed this bottle of Jack Daniels around and told us all to take a sip, after we did, he announced it was the rinse water off the points, I ran outside afterward and chugged 2 beers to dilute it. LOL!
that is cool stuff man, i gave a few presentations on clovis sites in new mexico and arkansas when i was president of the archaeological society here, i have to find my slides and make a few vids to put on here. That would be amazing to have the honor that you had to go and not only see, but touch those artifacts, Awesome man, love this video.
wondering how I missed this one?? so much one could say but will just go with WOW
You didn't miss it Bud, you commented on it 4 years ago I think ...
Joe H. had one, longer than yours and made of translucent banded red jasper. he used to take it round with his other artifacts and do talks to groups like the Boy Scouts. Then one day he dropped it on to a concrete floor while showing it off, DING!, into a thousand pieces, like glass. Ya know where Joe found it? By a curb, someones relatives had thrown someones entire relic collection out in the trash. Joe told me he loaded it all into his station wagon and that it was so heavy his axle was almost scraping the ground. (an old horror story by a member of The Philadelphia Mineral Society) they had quite a few of those, all ending badly.
Been waiting on this vid,,,Just awesome!! Thanks for sharing your insight and that cool picture!
man!!! ii was a junior in hs then i was ready to go level an apple orchard lucky you gettin to be there whats the story on the points on the left of ur pic?? repros also??
Those are insane
The Paleo flaking is just incredible when you see it and think about the skill of the knappers of those days. This was a wonderful story Paleoman...How did you hold up to 10 days of straight knapping and archeological investigation...lol..sounds rough..A lot of fun I bet!!..Those casts are impressive looking..Just the detail in those is quite amazing..Nice to know if you drop one its not the end of the world..I really like that bone foreshaft theory!...Ben
What a great experience. Thanks for sharing.
That is amazing to see clovis points of that magnitude!! True mammoth slayers!! Always intriguing to see big points like that..the biggest clovis found around my little patch of grounds was maybe 3" the two in my collection are both under 3".dont really know the reasoning behind that...seems all time periods they produced smalls...any suggestions on that?..thanks for sharing!!
How wonderful...A pic of you holding a freshly pulled Wenatchee point ... priceless !!! I think it's cool they are leaving points in the ground still, there for future improved science techniques to be applied on !!! Man how tempting for the locals ... Hey , you up for a Mission Impossible ???
I'm impressed with the skills those early knappers had to make those big monsters. Not only are they big but they are thin too. That agate is some pretty tough stone to work, I'll bet they had ivory billets because it would have been plentiful and its harder than antler or bone.
What qualified you for a trip to Washington to check out such a famous site? How cool that must have been to be there and find more pieces!!! What made that area such an attraction to the Native Americans?
Is the Rutz still the largest Clovis?
Cool, I'll have to check out your vids and see the new record! Can you tell me which vid it is or what it is called? Thanks! Right on West Ky!
very cool! thanks for showing. i wonder sometimes if some fluted points were meant to slide off the shaft and stay in the prey, then just reload your spear...?
Nice video, enjoyed!
Jason, I thought of you immediately when I shot this video, and we need to talk sometime because we have a lot of things we could talk about. There is so much more I could say about this experience, but I don't want to bore everyone with tons of details. Our group had dinner and met with the owner of the site numerous times and I could tell you lots of interesting facts about all the drama that occurred out there. You need to come to the mancave my friend!
If you come up and see me sometime, I will tell you hours of stories I have about that site in Wenatchee. I wrote a lot of them down in the book I have been writing about my life as a knapper. I have the book written but I need to have it edited and published someday.
Im waitin Ken to find mine stickin out of a claybank
I agree, I think many of the tools they made were multi purpose tools. It would be way more practical to make one tool to do several different tasks that to make a tool for each task.
Awesome video on this subject. I've been in awe of these points since i first heard about them a several years ago. I'm sure it takes great skill to make a Clovis of that size. I am a little surprised the flutes aren't as long on the 3 white points as they are on the obsidian point, but that probably has something to do with the material, right?
Are those forshafts for atl atl.and Knives after the kill? nice to here about it from you Killer vid
That was very cool. Thanks for sharing!
I bet the same knapper made the Wenatchee and Rutz clovis points.
Ken I would love to show you what I have and see what you think. I live near Rochester.
I'd love to see what you found sometime.
Seems like I was there for a couple of months as well or was it only a dream. Nah, a person couldn't dream up that kind of stuff
That was the trip of a lifetime for me. I loved the area this site was in. It was my only time that far west and the scenery was incredible. The artifacts were the icing on the cake for me.
How about the Clovis in Corfu NY ?
That sounds like the Clovis cache that was found on the Lamb Farm. I got to participate in that dig and found the bottom of the only Flintridge Clovis in the cache.
I hope to find one some day what do you think of the theory that they could be Solutrean rest in peace Dennis Stanford
@@mikedickson6362 I believe that it is very possible that there was a Soultrean influence with these points.
WOW, cant imagine being part of that "history of prehistory", heard about, read about it, seeing your "bug" eyes in that photo as your handling a piece of it says it all. Darn things didn't fit on my screen.
Did u find a
what a stellar story &vidra,man how lucky could 1 be to get asked to come to a site like that as its still being discovered! i alwaz forget the guys name from the smithsonian,but him & many others believe the BIG Clovis Cashes, were actual sacrificial cashes,offerings to the great spirit so they may have a bountiful hunt or something,because of all the Clovis Points found that arent made as thin&big, every mastadon dig w/clovis points are never that big,case points are the only 1's that way/size
Whaling would be perfect for these large points! They were quite far from the ocean though and I personally think they killed the mamoths and other large game with some of the smaller points in the assemblage and used these huge blades for butchering. The blood samples that were recovered under some of the small thumbnail hinge fractures tested for many different types of animal blood plus human blood. The article is in a past issue of the Ohio Archaeologist magazine if you can find it.
I was not qualified to be invited on this adventure actually, I was asked because the Buffalo Museum of Science was going to conduct the excavation after it was shut down in 1988, long story there! I was friends with a member on the museum board and he asked me to go and do flintknapping demos and talks at the site as part of and educational tour that was set up while we were there. The area was just east of the Cascade mountains and the Columbia river was nearby. Lots of open plains there.
I've seen a replica of that obsidian blade! It is amazing! And this is a random question, but how many flintknappers do you think there are?
Too many. I live fairly close to Pritchett, Colorado where Marvin McCormick made all his fake paleo, especially Folsoms and sold them as authentic. Fact is I have 2 of his points and because of the fame associated with McCormick I'm proud to have them in my extensive collection from the Southern High Plains but have never passed them off as authentic and never will. There are many McCormick Folsom displayed in museums being confused with authentic and this is how the modern knapper hurts us all.
ele.net/mccormick/mccormick.htm
I believe you, I found a 7 1/2 inch clovis close to the Columbia River ( I won't disclose to anyone) and return often, its on private land and more often then not do I walk away with something in the form of native American tools....
Post a picture of your 7.5 inch clovis. It can be with total anonymity if you are worried about repercussions. Any Clovis point found should be added to the Clovis database that has been created for such finds. Especially a 7.5 inch point. That is at the extreme for that kind of point, the majority found are in the neighborhood of 4-6 inches. Make it available for castings to be made instead of hiding it in a shoebox stored in your closet.
I have given a number of pieces to agency's of such with the understanding I would receive a acknowledgment after their findings, 11 years and still waiting... They have put them away in their drawers and the public isn't able to see or enjoy them... I know a number of collectors who have experienced the same and also now feel the same way.. I have since given my small collection to other worthy collectors who show theirs at different functions ....
Woow amazing i was reading. the other day. about some one bought The biggest. clovis about 9 inch Plus size. was It You. The person. who bought. It? for 276,000$? on auction. The person. who,bought. It was From Texas. and had The same tatto. of The clovis on his calf. i have a colecction. of points. do You. buy.?
Claudia Vargas Unfortunately Claudia it wasn't me that bought that large obsidian Clovis point, all I could afford is the cast of it you see here. I also collect points but only the ones I find.
Do you know of any videos of the discovery?
I really don't know if there are any videos on this discovery. It was featured in the October 1988 issue of the National Geographic magazine.
The new record is in my videos. Check it out. Your a lucky man to have been there
I know where the new record Clovis is from. Go West Ky.
Alabama, Points, real points, why let it known., i get it about finding something ,that most cant imigine seeing, rare or not, soon like all will be no more, my self i hunted daily, un speakable finds, over kill on something is bad , i mean on every thing. soon every one has it , or worse , nothing to leave history to belive . but hear say. it a rock now where it once meant something..
All that
i ser still. It Isa uno que pice