Sup - I'm well out of my comfort zone with this one. Would love feedback on this style, and whether or not it's worth doing. The energy and reactions from the streams have been insane and I would love to make content live like this more often. Much love everyone.
I hear your voice, I'm happy If this style of content helps you maintain your standing in the algorithm by getting content out more regularly through supplementing the high quality edited content we usually get with live streamed videos like this that I presume take a bit less time to produce, I'm all for it
Keep it up Nomad. The way I see it most show up for your insight and/or your voice. We do love the well structured and edited videos but just showing up and talking to us about what's going on is great too. Your content is YOUR content and that's what people show up for.
Hey Nomad. I must say that this was a wonderful video with some well-reasoned takes. I also like this new style; it makes me want to wake up at ungodly o'clock to catch a stream. I know this wasn't addressed in the video, perhaps due to length, but a community worry I've seen being talked about a lot is with resilience breakpoints. Some math wizards on the Crucible Guidebook subreddit have calculated that resilience breakpoints for ttk shifting have increased across the board, with most settling around 7 resil. This obviously skews things in the favor of Titans when it comes to stat buildcrafting and arguably makes Hunters the one who get the shortest stick, due to needing to have significant stat investment in Mobility, Resilience, and Recovery. Do you have any thoughts you'd be willing to share on the this? Thanks again for the vid!
I feel like the Discord perk will start running rampant in general PvP. I mean it gives you infinite special ammo as long as you get kills with it after any primary kill.
WOOO NOMAD UPLOAD! Also is it just me or did the person who wrote this twab watch a bunch of camny's vids on crucible and its pain points before writing this? I swear he has specifically mentioned the whole 'you should be able to figure out what killed you so you can improve and know what to do differently next time' thing, hes definitely talked about flinch and snipers and special weapon uptime. Im all for it though, I would honestly trust cam to singlehandedly make all future changes to the crucible, I think he has a really interesting perspective and his insight can drastically improve pvp.
I haven't played in about 6 months... we'll see if these changes can bring me back. However, I don't think the PvP changes will fix the core issue, which is the population and drawing newer/average players in. SBMM with the skill creep means everyone is high level and average players still get stuck against top players. There needs to be an incentive for those kinds of players to hop into PvP (remember the Immortal's first week? Trials was tolerable). There needs to be loot worth chasing every week.
Yep happened to me earlier. I just started playin destiny 2 again last month and I’m almost at 1760 power. Decided to try crucible PvP for the first time ever and just kept gettin one tapped and every single person I was playin against was 1800+. Needless to say I went back to campaigns and strikes after that lmao. Tbf I’ve never really been a PvP fan in general and never played any type of BR games. I wish destiny would add a bot option for private lobbies kinda like black ops 2 just to make it easier for people like me to learn the maps and shit before hopping into PvP
I'm all for improving pvp. My only concern is I don't want them slowly moving away from what makes destiny pvp unique. I'm sure it's not easy to find that balance, but this seems like the first real step in actually trying to find that balance.
It is easier and fun, doesn't require that much skill to get kills so casual players won't have to grind for hours to finally get those consecutive head shots. One can just log in and play after a long gap and still have a wonderful time. It doesn't require players to be sweaty, unlike other fps games out there.
On the note about having a visual indicator of special ammo on the field, I wonder if it’s possible to have a small green bar underneath every players icon at the top of the screen showing representing the special ammo meter. That way you can clearly see how close each player is to having special and if the bar resets then you know they have it and can adjust your playstyle accordingly
People love HC & shotty though Hell, I’m one of them It can’t be so good nothing else is usable, but I’m never gonna complain about the dominant playstyle that’s at least usable (though not always optimal) in 90% of my matches being the one that is personally most satisfying to me Bear in mind things like DMT and fusions were still cracked during 30th Anniversary, it wasn’t overwhelmingly HC/shotgun only The biggest thing people loved about 30th sandbox wasn’t even weapons, it was the relative stability of the ability sandbox and the absence of AE, both things the coming year messed up
@@zeromythosver. Bear in mind, this is a casual PVPer's perspective. I don't love the HC/Shotty combo per se. But it's what I always end up using because the CQC combat is so bad. Unless you Shotgun or Fusion someone or have something else to OHK reliably, the punching match ensues and you lose unless you punch first. It's what I despise about Destiny's PVP...all these guns and variety and the CQC "meta" revolves around APING and punching the enemy. The melee tracking doesn't help this either. Sure, there are some abilities that can widen the gap(like Warlock's Void Melee) or alleviate this issue, but those shoehorn you into said class/subclass.
Def not the case on console, hc werent meta over there. The last and first (not counting not forgotten) hc meta was 120s on console around the beyond light era.
My takeaway is they're trying to make the game easier for new lights, but widening the skill gap won't do that. New players by virtue of their nature do not have the ability to be good off the bat because they don't have any loot, no good gear, and no exotics because THEY ARE NEW PLAYERS. Pandering to the lowest common denominator isn't good for veterans who have been here and can adapt to new changes well. That being said the health changes were a stealth nerf to Thorn burn because in the same breath they increased all weapon damage enough to ignore that +30 bump. I'm still excited for some changes like the supposed Heavy GL "buff", and the odd machine gun buff in pvp, the bow/wishender pvp nerf. I do disagree with the threaded spectre nerf because they could've added a cooldown timer like with making Tangles but for Threaded spectre so 6th Coyote users can't spam.
New players will be fine, they get to learn the system out the gate and don't need to adjust, plus lower rarity weapons are plenty capable of killing in PvP, the only thing really separating them from the legendary and exotic weapons is lesser stats and perk combinations, but even with that if they can land shots they'll still win some shootouts vs. Legendary weapons. Hell some older weapons like khvostov and sand wasp 3au are actually kinda not that bad, the latter feels pretty good tbh.
Unfortunately for me I’ll believe it when I see it. A lot of changes bungie does sound good on paper but execution on the other hand abysmal… But I would gladly hold this L if they deliver.
My thought is shifting the gap in Body Shot and Critical damage wont amount to much but harm lesser used weapons if like they said prior Optimal TTK is the standard expectation because its just that easy with all the underlying system to the gunplay that assists players.
PvE guy here. You are correct, these changes make me less interested in coming back to PvP. I hope it helps the existing crowd, but it's very much no longer for me.
I think an option for how to help players improve with special ammo would be Crucible labs! Probably not "infinite special", but maybe special per respawn as it is now, or a week of "snipers and autos only" type of loadout restrictions.
Improve please fusion rifles are physically unbeatable in most scenarios and snipers aim for you. Only shotguns have any sort of skill expression and the broken melee lunges take away from it.
@@fotis3v480i dont use fusions very much at all but today i picked one up just for fun and decided it was the most broken special weapon i had ever used. I mean i just ran around vooping people the entire game. Top fragged, got like 35 kills. It was silly. They definitely need to nerf fusion rifles.
The only special ammo weapon you can really improve with is a sniper and that can be done even in PvE if you focus on quick snipes instead of hardscoping Shotguns are not skill based weapons, they focus on your movement skills which apply to several weapons with shotguns being bottom of the barrel for that type of skill as it's literally just running around until you get close enough to click shoot. Fusions are the same idea with pre-charging being the only thing needed to learn but even then pretty much no gun can kill before a fusion finishes charging besides a shotgun or maybe an smg/sidearm at optimal range. Trace rifles are just auto rifle logic, sidearms are hand cannon logic, grenade launchers you can practice with fighting lion, beyond that it's not complicated. Snipers actually need some skill with learning player heights relative to environments, having quick enough reflexes to aim and shoot upon seeing a target, and enough consistency to be able to reliably land headshots, but that can be practiced with scout rifles or vs. PvE targets.
I think your interpretation of special weapon acquisition points for different gamemodes might be incorrect. The way I read it is that they listed the base values for certain actions, and then they listed when those numbers were different for different gamemodes, meaning that you'll still get the regular amount of points for a kill in countdown, but you'll also get 20 points by arming a charge. I could be wrong here though.
Great vid bruv, I'm concerned about what this will do for the crucible population, I don't think many destiny players want to admit but the majority of the game pop is casual and only a minor sample of this are interested in improving i think these changes will open the skill gap, alienate buildcrafters and result in more quitters. If this update doesn't kill casual crucible overnight, i fear the final shape definitely will.
That incendiary grenade and skyburner build seems so funny, i haven't played D2 in almost a year but that clip alone made me want to get back on and try it XD
I don't care what Bungie changes in Destiny. They lost me as a player months ago. Yesterday I finally uninstalled the game (after weeks not playing) and I was never more glad to do so. I finally was able to quit the game. Not because I wanted to in the first place but because Bungie forced my hand in that case. With all that stuff that happened, all the goodwill that was burned I just can't look at the game anymore without feeling betrayed. I really hope those of you that enjoy the game still will be still able to do so. But I will move on. Which means also from this channel. I wish you the best Ascendant Nomad. Keep up your good work in your videos, even if I won't watch them anymore.
@@TechStomperGaming They aren't, they are happy, you are the one who cannot fathom someone being happy, hope you find hapiness soon although a youtube comment section probably isn't the place.
yah same. its neat theyre doing all that stuff but i just want to see how the story and raid ends and then im gone for good. 10 years was enough of a waste on this game begging for things to be different only for very little to actually change when people wanted it most. multiplayer games are so down these days
I would like to see a 6v6 casual mode that is a balance between current regular sandbox and mayhem. Slightly increased ability uptime and more common special ammo. That kind of mode would be fun for build crafting, without any ego death for the more high level players lol
The problem with that, for me, would end up being the lack of consistent feel. If you were a blueberry who actually starts digging PvP, it will be weirdly jarring to have 2 different sandboxes going at the same time. That's why Checkmate was treated like a modifier, something that you are actively signing up to play with, whereas you would just kinda need to know that casual 6v6 plays different then both Trials and Comp with 3v3
That was already a thing though. Checkmate was already separating the crucible into multiple sandboxes and when you consider mayhem, momentum control, and eruption all drastically tweak cooldowns its not that weird. The problem is Checkmate is a bandaid for crucible. It doesn't solve the ability problems or the ridiculously overturned primary and special weapons, it just makes crucible slower in some games and snowballing way more rampant in others. Yes I agree the better players and teams should win but they aren't even balancing the broken shit, they're making sweeping blanket nerfs and slapping Checkmate on the whole thing. Forcing more crits doesn't show more skill when the majority of meta weapons are meta because of how generous their crit hitboxes are
@@ShadowNemesis575 Question, if you feel that both primaries and specials are overturned, do you want Y1 D2 PvP where all you use is primaries that are super slow to kill? I think there is a fundamental difference though with the different playlists vs having 6v6 just be a different sandbox, you are specifically going out of your way to go into mayhem which tells you it plays differently on the director. Personally I would rather not have to check every single playlist I'm hopping into to find out how my abilities are gonna work in it. Also, the forgiveness in crits definitely is there but I promise you that it is not the reason primaries are strong. Igneous Hammer being the example, in the current sandbox you only need to land a single crit and 2 body shots to get a kill on I think any resilience guardian. Sure that forgiveness makes it easier to get that one crit but having 3 shots to get it in a gunfight means with peak shooting it is really easy to get the kill since I don't have to think that hard. If you are making me hit more crits, then ya I'm gonna have to work harder compared to now. This isn't like it's OW where you can just be shooting in your opponents area code and somehow land your shots lol
Technically these changes are bringing us closer to classic destiny PvP, originally you didn't get easy access to cheap one hit kill weapons, people were harder to kill and primary ammo was more dominant. Personally if that happened I'd prefer it to be either private match only or as a rotator that can be selected rather than forced, or even just an aspect of mayhem.
This video popped up for me and I will say, I am excited for the change. I played PvP in the beginning of D2 all the way up to beyond light and dabbled a lil since. I like the ability spam and special ammo high usage for PvE. PvP finally getting attention and making me want to play crucible again to give it a chance.
I have been on a bit of a break myself. But I still play a bit with friends. I am mostly pve but I will play pvp a lot when I run out of pve goals. The point about losing the ability to practice hit home for me because that is how I used special ammo last season. I got tired of not understanding sniper lanes well enough to avoid them properly. I equipped a sniper I liked, and I forced myself to use both shots every life for like a full week, playing for an hour or so every day. And it helped a lot. I’m not a good sniper, but I can do it sometimes. And it really helped me to understand what was happening on the other side of the screen when I get sniped. A compromise that wouldn’t be too difficult would be to allow for this special meter to be customized in custom games. This combined with fireteam finder, would allow players to set up personal practice lobbies for whatever special weapon they want to practice with. Or they could just practice with friends.
Im going to say this, if these changes enable the problem we had in year 1 and it doesn't fix the current problem. Im done for good! Im not about to have scout rifle andies hand holding people ruining pvp experience
What caused scout hand holding was the TTK of D21Y. Which is not what we're getting, everything else still kills faster like the current sandbox. This isn't anything like D2Y1.
I'd like a system where either special ammo drops happen only at predetermined points throughout a match, or where you have to make a set amount of special ammo last a whole match. I think it would make the game more readable and would fix the issue of snowballing while still reducing overall uptime.
Lightweight Grenade Launchers are getting ignored far too much here. They deal 220 total with spike grenades on a direct impact. On top of this, any dr, void os, or woven mail already prevent a one shot in this current patch. They got left dead in the water with no explanation on why they in specific were ignored. Lightweight’s have such a high skill ceiling in comparison to a fusion (which actually will allow for high impacts to 3 bolt ANY resil), but they don’t get the same treatment. All I’m asking for is JUST a buff to the impact damage to compensate for just how painfully bad they are to use to get impact kills. I want Justice for Lightweight GL Impact damage.
I'm more curious if this emphasis on crucible changes is coming about through the new game director; if this, this may bode well for future crucible changes and attention.
No, the new game director transition is just beginning, while checkmate type balancing has been going on for quite a while. This is just Joe+the crucible strike team at work.
While it does sound good on paper, I'm going to have to wait and see before hype. Teammates already ignore the objective already as much as it is. I fear things will remain the same, if not worse, with higher ttk values, more teamshooting, and snowballing with double primary. People running in big circles around the map in packs is only going to worsen. Any sort of strategy when it comes to Obj is going to go out the window even more so.
Off the top of my head theres 2 things i want 1) if handcannons are going to be super punishing to the body, they need to be among the best universaly for optimal ttk 2) i want to see abilities that are extremely weak but consistant. Think a grenade that does aoe handcannon damage, but it has a cooldown of 30 seconds Or a super thats classified as teir 6 with a 3 minute cooldown, but it just gives you a one time hp refill. Just abilities that arent super powerful, but iseful.
I stopped playing when Lightfall came out (You'll be happy to know, my prime was, Titan.), Lightfall was gruelling and, still is. I was a reasonable PvP player, always went for headshots. I came back recently expecting a hard time in PvP, it was hell on earth. I've kept at it, other than specials etc and not having a clue what happened, head shots don't seem worth it, especially if you're now unsure on weapons. Fusions and some exotics I haven't figured out yet, are particularly annoying. I miss sniping and scout rifles, certain bows and hand cannons are the only thing I've had some fun with, at a cost. It all seems very broken, not just some overpowered weapons anymore, entire class of weapons are now obsolete.
Started playing Destiny PvP when Curse of Osiris launched. Just finished my 7 placement matches for Competitive PvP and landed in Copper 1. All that hard work I've put in to getting better finally paid off. Feeling cute.
These changes sound great in theory and maybe they will be, but if there aren't new arenas to play in I just can't see myself being interested sadly. I want to come back to the game but I can't play on the same old ass maps we've had for an eternity now, gameplay only takes it so far.
I definitely will be leaning towards having a sour initial reaction to the changes because of the niche I exist in. I worry a lot that my enjoyment of the game will definitely be hindered, and after thinking for a while about the information we have, I'm still very on edge, but I will give it a fair shot. My biggest problem is that 6s has been neglected for years and the only time they address it is by making objectively bad decisions for the health of the declining PvP population and the people left who really care about the game. With these changes and SBMM together, I have little to no hope. However, if there is an announcement of CBMM's return, I'll be at least a little bit at ease. In my opinion, these are potentially good changes, but there were alternatives to go about it that would have less possible repercussions on the community as a whole. The reason I am so afraid of this is because if PvP has one more notable decline, I predict it would be the end of its life cycle entirely because of how many chances Bungie has been given.
When they brought back SBMM, they said exactly that. That there were no tools for players to improve just by dying/being stomped. The "remove SBMM, L2P scrubs!!!" crowd never understood that not having a kill cam like other games is huge. SBMM "fix" that a bit. Now they're saying it again, with even more stuff added to it.
They should just normalize supers in trials or imo at this point, just have no supers on the game. Main reason void titan is so strong is its super just wins a round in a trials without doing much. Granted the void subclass is really strong, but I loved checkmate weekends allowing to me to use arc titan again just cause supers weren’t on the field. In both checkmates weekends, I only saw 3 supers at the end of a 4-4 game.
The special ammo points for rumble makes perfect sense. You dont have teammates so assists aren't really assists and you can't plan them, just means someone else got the kill with your help n they're technically your opponent too. Points on death isn't necessary because it just drags out the game with the most killed player having a futile comeback moment, or does literally nothing. Rumble should be the place for players to hone and show off their primary skill and survival going solo, thats always been bungies intent.
First time viewer, and I have to say, I'm loving the Titan bashing! Seriously, my largest issue with the previous iterations of Checkmate was I didn't have any Special ammo to stop the inevitable melee-ape Titan that then kills me. Whoever thought fast Titans was a good idea was either delusional or a Titan main; speed is Hunter territory (and I say that as a Warlock main). Even in regular Crucible (pre-changes), if I'm using a Special weapon, it is saved to counter someone aping me, and 9 times out of 10, that's a Titan (the 10th is always a Stasis or Void Hunter with a shotgun).
If you want to try countering those apes a little better, try adding a mid to close range weapon to your PvP kit, or a high damage weapon like a bow, nothing quite beats mowing down one of those crayon munchers with a sidearm or smg before they get close, or hitting them with a bow and watching them panic as their health vanishes and they can then be beaten at their own game with an uncharged melee. Additionally as a warlock main myself, solar with icarus dash is great for dodging their attempts which thanks to the nerf that takes energy away when they do that renders them an easier target, even more so after this update goes live as they likely won't have a shotgun to fall back on. Other good options are blink, stasis freeze either via melee or rift or hitting them in the face with a sticky grenade, the magnetic and flux being nice for their one shot potential. Also while much harder to pull of(but amazing when it works) you can time a well of radiance juuuust right to smack them with the sword and potentially trade with them without losing the well.
I'm pretty sure discord doesn't work if your ammo counter is 0 so you would still need to earn ammo first. It could help a disciplined and aggressive player stretch the ammo they earn definitely, but I don't think it'll penetrate into the wider meta. I could be wrong though if they release a bunch of powerful special weapons with the perk as the game goes on.
Very excited for the change. I really really really think they need to change resilience asap. Every single guardian inside the crucible should have the same health regardless of resilience. Hunters need mobility and no other class does and it makes it harder to win 1v1 gunfights against warlocks and titans (mostly). If they gave every guardian the same health it would be so much better
Seems like you're experiencing an echo chamber. The only people I've spoken to who don't like it are the "furniture" playbase who cheese the meta. The majority of people I spoke to like it. They're casual, older, and tend not to sweat it either way. These are the folk we need to make crucible better for everyone, not just the meta furniture teabagging nerds.
@@j4ksx the large part of the destiny playerbase are horrible at the game and are casuals. These changes won't affect me, however i know that these changes wont be taken in a possitive way by most players. Snowballin, team shots, the special ammo sistem, all these changes will make a good portion of the pvp playerbase leave out of frustration.
@@Danil_JRK have to agree to disagree here, brother. The population is tiny and it is anything but casual. Most players who still play PvP are sweaty furniture that have been mastering the meta week in week out since day zip. This is pretty much what Bungie have outright states in this twab and are looking to address. If these changes pushes the cheese out of the game and welcomes in new blood to replace it, then it's a net positive. The problem in crucible is the tiny population left and what this tiny population is. It ain't casual, buddy. I try playing casual playlists and it's 6 sweaty teenagers team shooting and cheesing KD like they're Old McDonald...Eeeyaa Eeeyaa Yawn.
Do you think that means 120's loose their ability to 2 head 1 body !? If yes doesnt that mean igneous hammer with precision instrument is going to be meta !?
Deathballin' is unbearable.. I play only "casual" sixes (and Control is far from casual for a 2-3 months now) I played only like 10 matches of Checkmate Control and left it because of deathballin' everytime.. that is basically the only viable tactic in checkmate control and it's beyond annoying, you get deleted in 0.01 seconds, nobody strays off, everybody is grouped in teamshooting etc. And they say all of these changes are to help new/lower skill players.. HOW? While no word about terrible matchmaking which is the cause of this (I know it's very low population but still, I shouldn't be matched against people doing like 4, 15, 22.0 KD wtf.. I hope we can pressure them to revert these changes and just to leave Checkmate and its variants to Trials and Comp, where it kinda makes sense. Currently there are no real normal casual modes (I don't count silly stuff like Mayhem..) for us "regular" people who are new/bad/mid and just want to have fun for a couple of hours a day or even a week, everything is a bloody sweatfest, and this will make it even worse.. D2 desperately needs influx of new PVP players just for Crucible to survive and have healthy population.. This will only drive them away, and actually new/low/mid skill players who want to improve are being actively discouraged to stay in PVP, for months now.. and this will only make it worse.. in the end, you're gonna have couple of thousand of hardcores and cheaters left in crucible.. I can't believe Bungie can't see this trend
I'll definitely be happy to see less ability spam, zero skill shotguns, fusions, etc. We've asked for years that the easiest stuff to use not also be the most powerful stuff.
@@tomz6594 as ive watched more videos about the topic, i am more optimisitc about the change. Just never want to go back to Midas/Uriels from trials of the nine.
Hand cannon popularity will skyrocket. As all the good players already prefer them and are skilled with them, the skill gap to average / bad players will grow. It will be pretty boring to see even much more hand cannons in PvP and snowballing matches :/ Ps. Great video as always,though I would have preferred just the analysis part, I can always skip the reading out loud part 😏
I am glad they're making an effort to fix some of the issues in pvp but they are still half stepping in some areas and I hate that. Making ttks rely more on crits does not matter that much when alot of meta weapons can hit crits with little effort or skill requirements for the player. The game itself is built around overly generous bullet magnetism and aggressively tracking abilities instead of the skill shot based sandbox they've tried to tell us they were trying to make years ago. I'm really glad they targeted some annoying things that people have crutched for years but its gonna take more fundamental changes for crucible to be in a legitimately good place. On top of that I hate the idea of less space magic in the space magic game. Like don't get me wrong I get satisfaction in getting perfect kills with my primaries but imo destiny should lean into the space magic and make a genuine effort to balance it as a whole instead of just blanket nerfing cooldowns. Like look at the strand changes: threadlings are annoying people so they're getting blanket nerfed and they're counter balancing the nerfs on warlock (the threadling class) by buffing the melee? The melee needed buffs but that doesn't change the fact that the super is inconsistent at best and these changes will push it even more into being one of the worse one and done supers in the game. Where are the well of radiance and bubble balance passes? When are we gonna make warlock void melee consistent? Fix child of the old gods pathing? Melee registration in general? When's the last time you got hit by arcbolt? Flashbang nade? Handheld supernova? Hell all the charged grenades on void lock? Fan of knives? Thunder clap? SHIELD TOSS?! Abilities are part of the bones of the game and need to be balanced properly so just blanket nerfing cooldowns without actually buffing and nerfing the abilities themselves won't solve the problem, its just another bandaid. Checkmate has always been a bandaid on a GSW. It's not helping. If anything it just shines a light on bigger issues in pvp that haven't been actually fixed for years. All we can really do is wait and see but from what I can tell crucible is just going to be even less fun for the average player despite some of these changes benefiting them by forcing other players to play the obj more and use their primaries more. The more destiny changes the more it stays the same. There will still be people running the same cookie cutter loadouts they always do and they'll never get the patches they need to balance them. I mean stompees got how many changes just to still be one of the best pvp exotics, Peacekeepers got nerfed as a whole by 50% and its still just monstrous to fight against and they're still running the same smgs that got ALL smgs nerfed. My whole point is these are alot of changes that don't really balance things the way they should and since crucible will overall be less fun because with all these changes the real problems STILL aren't being addressed so I don't see this moving the needle in the right direction to keep delicated crucible players playing and make people who only play when they have to want to keep playing because they still won't have an enjoyable experience.
I'm really glad they're doing this, but I really wish they'd introduce some variants (For Iron Banner I guess) that has higher special/ability uptime. I spent a fair amount of time this season trying to get good with the Epicdefender playstyle, feels bad to basically be losing an entire loadout slot.
They should bring back invective, ice breaker, and a fuzion equivelent where the whole idea is that it takes forever, but now you can get some reliable ammo at the cost of the ammo for objectives. (In pve they would get a faster ammo generation, bigger mag count, or the ability to pick up normal special ammo)
I feel like if we can keep heavy ammo this could make specials being less prevalent be better for the game in general for shutdowns. Heavy would get a much more needed positional control of the pvp sandbox too.
I think "nerfing" (that's how I see it at least) the really good/tryhardy players is REALLY GOOD for casual players, like myself! I feel outclassed rn and feel like there's no room to experiement with offmeta loadouts, but now maybe I could do that. Thank you Bungo Also- *WOOOOOOO NOMAD UPLOAD!* Agree with the Titan thing. The fact I'm a Hunter may or may not have something to do with it.
This is a great change. I love destiny but I miss the actual "dueling" aspect of games like halo. In destiny pvp if you shoot second you loose the duel 90 percent of the time. Love this change.
YESSS CRUCIBLE DOCTOR laying it down baby!!! Personally Im SO SO pumped for the changes but 99999% aggree (and am also wondering about) how they can make soecial ammo known when somone got it. Sure its in the stupid dumb mini feed that is impossible to watch 24/7 during a gunfight but Ill only catch that 1/100 times somone gets special. Other than that I personally dont think buildcrafting will die in pvp remember abilities r only 15% slower its not like the og checkmate where it was 50% or even 30% like the one u showed with the incendiary with the cabal scout will be FINE just bump ur disapline up a few points and itll only feel a TAD slower. But yeah itll def be slowed a but but not dead imo. 😂😂😂 where is march 5th already? 🎉🎉🎉
My biggest worry is this will sunder the game in 2 and pvp will wither and die. Not like it hasn't been doing it but i suspect in more spectacular fashion. The pvp strike team just told me that warlocks don't matter in pvp, so why bother.
I'm excited for the shakeup. Regardless of how it will end up (it will probably be all fine), I just want to look at a new game, something new to figure out. Worst thing is for the game to stagnate. I want them to try new things and change things up. Lets go, cant wait for the update.
If this is the start of change then it looks as close to a reset as there's been in a long time. I've no clue whether it will be great or toilet worthy but the shottie/fusion vs sniper vs primary choice will a key part of the build selection and i can see 3 prepared load outs to be applied as we fly out of the loading screen being important. Initially at least this will slow down the matches until we get the measure of increased "resilience" and how many body shots we can take before dying. Let's see what else they have in the pipeline but new maps alone won't cut it. Decent reasons to get into the PvP modes have to be central to increase the population. New Redrix, mountaintop or recluse are things they won't be giving us and they kept the PvE players in the crucible as the weapons were too good not to have in the arsenal. I'm happy to try the new structures but a banner or shader are not going to cut it, if they want me to stay.
Hmmmm.... Getting back destiny 2 vanilla is a good change? I don't know, guys, but this changes sound no good for me. Checkmate was... Fun? First two or three games, but whenever you get to fight against smart players, it becomes a teamshot simulator. No skill, no exciting gameplay, just teamshot. And this kind of gameplay is what almost killed this game many years ago, while the opposite one (tons of amo, tons of broken weapons, tons of abilities. Basically, Forsaken) literally made destiny one of the better games to play. I don't know, guys, I think I am leaving the game next season if bungie trully do what they say :/
I think the body shot changes are fine, but they're gonna kill specials with this. My biggest problem is I don't think I care because I haven't played a single time this season. My favorite thing was the weapons, but now everything looks the same. Easiest job on the planet is the destiny rewards designer cause you get to grab any old existing weapon skin and plug numbers in. I might not even come back for final shape, especially if everything is just a reskin for the 100th time
If you were here long enough, they did a similar changes before. they realised it didnt work. because it sucked. so they changed it back. now they changed it again? do they not keep a list of things they have "tested" before? i dont think this will work. this is a SPACE MAGIC GAME FFS. stop trying to turn this into some COD nonsense shooting only game nonsense.
Great video. I was literally cheering as I was reading this twab. I have been disenfranchised with crucible for a long time now and these changes are finally addressing some huge painpoints for me. I'm excited to jump back in once these changes are live.
"Special ammo meter"... geez, I don't like the looks of that -- a skilled primary user will earn special ammo 2x faster than a lesser skilled player (23 points per kill vs 10 points per death). That feels like the strong get stronger to me (especially in Rumble), so it'll be interesting to see how it actually plays.
Be honest, if you can't identify why you died, then idk. It's easy to know that maybe you pushed with the wrong weapon, pushed at the wrong time, peeked the wrong corner, didn't have awareness of the situation. I think more so than anything most d2 players lack situational awareness and they play very passive
I can imagine a 4-4 game against a bubble titan and/or a wellock, and literally not being able to do anything against it because you have no special ammo availabe
I have to wonder if this is a direct consequence of a Halo 3 Multiplayer design lead taking the reigns as lead game director. If so, I'm lowkey here for it. PvP was the only thing keeping me playing over the years and it's become such a shitshow now.
Sup - I'm well out of my comfort zone with this one. Would love feedback on this style, and whether or not it's worth doing. The energy and reactions from the streams have been insane and I would love to make content live like this more often. Much love everyone.
I hear your voice, I'm happy
If this style of content helps you maintain your standing in the algorithm by getting content out more regularly through supplementing the high quality edited content we usually get with live streamed videos like this that I presume take a bit less time to produce, I'm all for it
Was a great stream and you covered everything well! I'd definitely tune in for these every time. Feels like our old Crucible Dr is back ❤
I enjoyed it ^_^
Keep it up Nomad. The way I see it most show up for your insight and/or your voice. We do love the well structured and edited videos but just showing up and talking to us about what's going on is great too. Your content is YOUR content and that's what people show up for.
Hey Nomad. I must say that this was a wonderful video with some well-reasoned takes. I also like this new style; it makes me want to wake up at ungodly o'clock to catch a stream. I know this wasn't addressed in the video, perhaps due to length, but a community worry I've seen being talked about a lot is with resilience breakpoints. Some math wizards on the Crucible Guidebook subreddit have calculated that resilience breakpoints for ttk shifting have increased across the board, with most settling around 7 resil. This obviously skews things in the favor of Titans when it comes to stat buildcrafting and arguably makes Hunters the one who get the shortest stick, due to needing to have significant stat investment in Mobility, Resilience, and Recovery. Do you have any thoughts you'd be willing to share on the this? Thanks again for the vid!
*People start invading in gambit just to get sniper practice*
We over there welcome all! C’mon in, the water’s fine~
That would be a hilarious turn of events and I welcome it honestly. My fellow Dredgen 11's will be here ready and waiting
WE RISE fellow Dredgen 11. So few of us. @@ShadowNemesis575
Lmao maybe that will reinvigorate gambit and we can unironically call it a core game mode again
Agree and just my opinion, Gambit is fun.
I feel like the Discord perk will start running rampant in general PvP. I mean it gives you infinite special ammo as long as you get kills with it after any primary kill.
that's why I picked up Mercurial Overreach (comp sniper) with discord/opening w/ 92 handling
WOOO NOMAD UPLOAD!
Also is it just me or did the person who wrote this twab watch a bunch of camny's vids on crucible and its pain points before writing this? I swear he has specifically mentioned the whole 'you should be able to figure out what killed you so you can improve and know what to do differently next time' thing, hes definitely talked about flinch and snipers and special weapon uptime.
Im all for it though, I would honestly trust cam to singlehandedly make all future changes to the crucible, I think he has a really interesting perspective and his insight can drastically improve pvp.
what if the pvp strike team is just secretly 3 cammys in a trenchcoat
@@AscendantNomadthen I think we are in good hands, lol
@@AscendantNomad God I wish
"Live Studio Audiance" means there are people physically IN the studio watching .... not offsite watching in real time
@@AscendantNomadI guess the only question, then, is - vertical cammys or horizontal?
I haven't played in about 6 months... we'll see if these changes can bring me back.
However, I don't think the PvP changes will fix the core issue, which is the population and drawing newer/average players in. SBMM with the skill creep means everyone is high level and average players still get stuck against top players.
There needs to be an incentive for those kinds of players to hop into PvP (remember the Immortal's first week? Trials was tolerable). There needs to be loot worth chasing every week.
This.
Yep happened to me earlier. I just started playin destiny 2 again last month and I’m almost at 1760 power. Decided to try crucible PvP for the first time ever and just kept gettin one tapped and every single person I was playin against was 1800+. Needless to say I went back to campaigns and strikes after that lmao. Tbf I’ve never really been a PvP fan in general and never played any type of BR games. I wish destiny would add a bot option for private lobbies kinda like black ops 2 just to make it easier for people like me to learn the maps and shit before hopping into PvP
I'm all for improving pvp. My only concern is I don't want them slowly moving away from what makes destiny pvp unique. I'm sure it's not easy to find that balance, but this seems like the first real step in actually trying to find that balance.
From your thoughts what makes the crucible unique?
@@anthonyislas1413 Having loads of the exact same stuff we always moan about.
@anthonyislas1413 simple space magic. And all the nuance with builds and weapons synergizing.
It is easier and fun, doesn't require that much skill to get kills so casual players won't have to grind for hours to finally get those consecutive head shots. One can just log in and play after a long gap and still have a wonderful time. It doesn't require players to be sweaty, unlike other fps games out there.
@@sandipanghosh0511 good point.
On the note about having a visual indicator of special ammo on the field, I wonder if it’s possible to have a small green bar underneath every players icon at the top of the screen showing representing the special ammo meter. That way you can clearly see how close each player is to having special and if the bar resets then you know they have it and can adjust your playstyle accordingly
30th anni is an example of looking at something with rose coloured glasses tbh. It was fine but was still just HC/Shottys and No Time.
People love HC & shotty though
Hell, I’m one of them
It can’t be so good nothing else is usable, but I’m never gonna complain about the dominant playstyle that’s at least usable (though not always optimal) in 90% of my matches being the one that is personally most satisfying to me
Bear in mind things like DMT and fusions were still cracked during 30th Anniversary, it wasn’t overwhelmingly HC/shotgun only
The biggest thing people loved about 30th sandbox wasn’t even weapons, it was the relative stability of the ability sandbox and the absence of AE, both things the coming year messed up
I loved it.
true it was a balanced sandbox abilities wise i’m pretty sure unless citans was crazy around that time
@@zeromythosver.
Bear in mind, this is a casual PVPer's perspective.
I don't love the HC/Shotty combo per se. But it's what I always end up using because the CQC combat is so bad.
Unless you Shotgun or Fusion someone or have something else to OHK reliably, the punching match ensues and you lose unless you punch first.
It's what I despise about Destiny's PVP...all these guns and variety and the CQC "meta" revolves around APING and punching the enemy. The melee tracking doesn't help this either.
Sure, there are some abilities that can widen the gap(like Warlock's Void Melee) or alleviate this issue, but those shoehorn you into said class/subclass.
Def not the case on console, hc werent meta over there. The last and first (not counting not forgotten) hc meta was 120s on console around the beyond light era.
My takeaway is they're trying to make the game easier for new lights, but widening the skill gap won't do that. New players by virtue of their nature do not have the ability to be good off the bat because they don't have any loot, no good gear, and no exotics because THEY ARE NEW PLAYERS. Pandering to the lowest common denominator isn't good for veterans who have been here and can adapt to new changes well. That being said the health changes were a stealth nerf to Thorn burn because in the same breath they increased all weapon damage enough to ignore that +30 bump. I'm still excited for some changes like the supposed Heavy GL "buff", and the odd machine gun buff in pvp, the bow/wishender pvp nerf. I do disagree with the threaded spectre nerf because they could've added a cooldown timer like with making Tangles but for Threaded spectre so 6th Coyote users can't spam.
New players will be fine, they get to learn the system out the gate and don't need to adjust, plus lower rarity weapons are plenty capable of killing in PvP, the only thing really separating them from the legendary and exotic weapons is lesser stats and perk combinations, but even with that if they can land shots they'll still win some shootouts vs. Legendary weapons. Hell some older weapons like khvostov and sand wasp 3au are actually kinda not that bad, the latter feels pretty good tbh.
Unfortunately for me I’ll believe it when I see it. A lot of changes bungie does sound good on paper but execution on the other hand abysmal… But I would gladly hold this L if they deliver.
Sees TWID.
Sees length of this video.
Oh baby, we're in for a banger Nomad video.
My thought is shifting the gap in Body Shot and Critical damage wont amount to much but harm lesser used weapons if like they said prior Optimal TTK is the standard expectation because its just that easy with all the underlying system to the gunplay that assists players.
PvE guy here. You are correct, these changes make me less interested in coming back to PvP. I hope it helps the existing crowd, but it's very much no longer for me.
I think an option for how to help players improve with special ammo would be Crucible labs! Probably not "infinite special", but maybe special per respawn as it is now, or a week of "snipers and autos only" type of loadout restrictions.
Improve please fusion rifles are physically unbeatable in most scenarios and snipers aim for you.
Only shotguns have any sort of skill expression and the broken melee lunges take away from it.
@@fotis3v480i dont use fusions very much at all but today i picked one up just for fun and decided it was the most broken special weapon i had ever used. I mean i just ran around vooping people the entire game. Top fragged, got like 35 kills. It was silly. They definitely need to nerf fusion rifles.
The only special ammo weapon you can really improve with is a sniper and that can be done even in PvE if you focus on quick snipes instead of hardscoping
Shotguns are not skill based weapons, they focus on your movement skills which apply to several weapons with shotguns being bottom of the barrel for that type of skill as it's literally just running around until you get close enough to click shoot.
Fusions are the same idea with pre-charging being the only thing needed to learn but even then pretty much no gun can kill before a fusion finishes charging besides a shotgun or maybe an smg/sidearm at optimal range.
Trace rifles are just auto rifle logic, sidearms are hand cannon logic, grenade launchers you can practice with fighting lion, beyond that it's not complicated.
Snipers actually need some skill with learning player heights relative to environments, having quick enough reflexes to aim and shoot upon seeing a target, and enough consistency to be able to reliably land headshots, but that can be practiced with scout rifles or vs. PvE targets.
I think your interpretation of special weapon acquisition points for different gamemodes might be incorrect. The way I read it is that they listed the base values for certain actions, and then they listed when those numbers were different for different gamemodes, meaning that you'll still get the regular amount of points for a kill in countdown, but you'll also get 20 points by arming a charge.
I could be wrong here though.
My topmost issue with pvp is that nobody wants to engage in a gun fight without having an overshield or threadlings.
Great vid bruv, I'm concerned about what this will do for the crucible population, I don't think many destiny players want to admit but the majority of the game pop is casual and only a minor sample of this are interested in improving i think these changes will open the skill gap, alienate buildcrafters and result in more quitters.
If this update doesn't kill casual crucible overnight, i fear the final shape definitely will.
Great video, cheers Nomad! Appreciate your insight and views on the upcoming changes. I'm looking forward to it, hopefully it goes well
That incendiary grenade and skyburner build seems so funny, i haven't played D2 in almost a year but that clip alone made me want to get back on and try it XD
I don't care what Bungie changes in Destiny. They lost me as a player months ago. Yesterday I finally uninstalled the game (after weeks not playing) and I was never more glad to do so.
I finally was able to quit the game. Not because I wanted to in the first place but because Bungie forced my hand in that case. With all that stuff that happened, all the goodwill that was burned I just can't look at the game anymore without feeling betrayed.
I really hope those of you that enjoy the game still will be still able to do so. But I will move on. Which means also from this channel.
I wish you the best Ascendant Nomad. Keep up your good work in your videos, even if I won't watch them anymore.
understandable, no hard feelings and thank you for your viewership all this time. ❤
cry about it
@@TechStomperGaming They aren't, they are happy, you are the one who cannot fathom someone being happy, hope you find hapiness soon although a youtube comment section probably isn't the place.
yah same. its neat theyre doing all that stuff but i just want to see how the story and raid ends and then im gone for good. 10 years was enough of a waste on this game begging for things to be different only for very little to actually change when people wanted it most. multiplayer games are so down these days
I quit not because of some interval pissing match but cuz the game on the pvp side was neglected for a long time.
I would like to see a 6v6 casual mode that is a balance between current regular sandbox and mayhem. Slightly increased ability uptime and more common special ammo. That kind of mode would be fun for build crafting, without any ego death for the more high level players lol
The problem with that, for me, would end up being the lack of consistent feel. If you were a blueberry who actually starts digging PvP, it will be weirdly jarring to have 2 different sandboxes going at the same time. That's why Checkmate was treated like a modifier, something that you are actively signing up to play with, whereas you would just kinda need to know that casual 6v6 plays different then both Trials and Comp with 3v3
That was already a thing though. Checkmate was already separating the crucible into multiple sandboxes and when you consider mayhem, momentum control, and eruption all drastically tweak cooldowns its not that weird. The problem is Checkmate is a bandaid for crucible. It doesn't solve the ability problems or the ridiculously overturned primary and special weapons, it just makes crucible slower in some games and snowballing way more rampant in others. Yes I agree the better players and teams should win but they aren't even balancing the broken shit, they're making sweeping blanket nerfs and slapping Checkmate on the whole thing. Forcing more crits doesn't show more skill when the majority of meta weapons are meta because of how generous their crit hitboxes are
@@ShadowNemesis575 Question, if you feel that both primaries and specials are overturned, do you want Y1 D2 PvP where all you use is primaries that are super slow to kill?
I think there is a fundamental difference though with the different playlists vs having 6v6 just be a different sandbox, you are specifically going out of your way to go into mayhem which tells you it plays differently on the director. Personally I would rather not have to check every single playlist I'm hopping into to find out how my abilities are gonna work in it.
Also, the forgiveness in crits definitely is there but I promise you that it is not the reason primaries are strong. Igneous Hammer being the example, in the current sandbox you only need to land a single crit and 2 body shots to get a kill on I think any resilience guardian. Sure that forgiveness makes it easier to get that one crit but having 3 shots to get it in a gunfight means with peak shooting it is really easy to get the kill since I don't have to think that hard. If you are making me hit more crits, then ya I'm gonna have to work harder compared to now. This isn't like it's OW where you can just be shooting in your opponents area code and somehow land your shots lol
It would be nice to have a “classic” modifier that reverts these changes
Technically these changes are bringing us closer to classic destiny PvP, originally you didn't get easy access to cheap one hit kill weapons, people were harder to kill and primary ammo was more dominant.
Personally if that happened I'd prefer it to be either private match only or as a rotator that can be selected rather than forced, or even just an aspect of mayhem.
This video popped up for me and I will say, I am excited for the change. I played PvP in the beginning of D2 all the way up to beyond light and dabbled a lil since. I like the ability spam and special ammo high usage for PvE. PvP finally getting attention and making me want to play crucible again to give it a chance.
I have been on a bit of a break myself. But I still play a bit with friends.
I am mostly pve but I will play pvp a lot when I run out of pve goals.
The point about losing the ability to practice hit home for me because that is how I used special ammo last season. I got tired of not understanding sniper lanes well enough to avoid them properly. I equipped a sniper I liked, and I forced myself to use both shots every life for like a full week, playing for an hour or so every day.
And it helped a lot. I’m not a good sniper, but I can do it sometimes. And it really helped me to understand what was happening on the other side of the screen when I get sniped.
A compromise that wouldn’t be too difficult would be to allow for this special meter to be customized in custom games.
This combined with fireteam finder, would allow players to set up personal practice lobbies for whatever special weapon they want to practice with.
Or they could just practice with friends.
So cheaters and zimmers are going to have an extreme advantage now. All the PVP changes mean nothing without addressing the cheats.Thanks Bunji.
Watching the sunset in Ascendant Nomad's bedroom was one of my favorite parts of this video!
Im going to say this, if these changes enable the problem we had in year 1 and it doesn't fix the current problem. Im done for good! Im not about to have scout rifle andies hand holding people ruining pvp experience
What caused scout hand holding was the TTK of D21Y. Which is not what we're getting, everything else still kills faster like the current sandbox. This isn't anything like D2Y1.
I'd like a system where either special ammo drops happen only at predetermined points throughout a match, or where you have to make a set amount of special ammo last a whole match.
I think it would make the game more readable and would fix the issue of snowballing while still reducing overall uptime.
Checkmate is boring 😂 I guess I will only play when momentum control is available
Lightweight Grenade Launchers are getting ignored far too much here. They deal 220 total with spike grenades on a direct impact. On top of this, any dr, void os, or woven mail already prevent a one shot in this current patch. They got left dead in the water with no explanation on why they in specific were ignored. Lightweight’s have such a high skill ceiling in comparison to a fusion (which actually will allow for high impacts to 3 bolt ANY resil), but they don’t get the same treatment. All I’m asking for is JUST a buff to the impact damage to compensate for just how painfully bad they are to use to get impact kills. I want Justice for Lightweight GL Impact damage.
Basically if you're skilled, you'll like the changes if you're bad, you'll hate em.
So the usual routine then.
Thankyou for making this video Nomad! I took a long break from Destiny, I'm really hyped and want to start playing again.
I'm more curious if this emphasis on crucible changes is coming about through the new game director; if this, this may bode well for future crucible changes and attention.
No, the new game director transition is just beginning, while checkmate type balancing has been going on for quite a while. This is just Joe+the crucible strike team at work.
While it does sound good on paper, I'm going to have to wait and see before hype. Teammates already ignore the objective already as much as it is. I fear things will remain the same, if not worse, with higher ttk values, more teamshooting, and snowballing with double primary. People running in big circles around the map in packs is only going to worsen. Any sort of strategy when it comes to Obj is going to go out the window even more so.
Off the top of my head theres 2 things i want
1) if handcannons are going to be super punishing to the body, they need to be among the best universaly for optimal ttk
2) i want to see abilities that are extremely weak but consistant. Think a grenade that does aoe handcannon damage, but it has a cooldown of 30 seconds
Or a super thats classified as teir 6 with a 3 minute cooldown, but it just gives you a one time hp refill.
Just abilities that arent super powerful, but iseful.
I stopped playing when Lightfall came out (You'll be happy to know, my prime was, Titan.), Lightfall was gruelling and, still is.
I was a reasonable PvP player, always went for headshots. I came back recently expecting a hard time in PvP, it was hell on earth. I've kept at it, other than specials etc and not having a clue what happened, head shots don't seem worth it, especially if you're now unsure on weapons. Fusions and some exotics I haven't figured out yet, are particularly annoying.
I miss sniping and scout rifles, certain bows and hand cannons are the only thing I've had some fun with, at a cost.
It all seems very broken, not just some overpowered weapons anymore, entire class of weapons are now obsolete.
Started playing Destiny PvP when Curse of Osiris launched. Just finished my 7 placement matches for Competitive PvP and landed in Copper 1. All that hard work I've put in to getting better finally paid off. Feeling cute.
These changes sound great in theory and maybe they will be, but if there aren't new arenas to play in I just can't see myself being interested sadly. I want to come back to the game but I can't play on the same old ass maps we've had for an eternity now, gameplay only takes it so far.
I definitely will be leaning towards having a sour initial reaction to the changes because of the niche I exist in. I worry a lot that my enjoyment of the game will definitely be hindered, and after thinking for a while about the information we have, I'm still very on edge, but I will give it a fair shot.
My biggest problem is that 6s has been neglected for years and the only time they address it is by making objectively bad decisions for the health of the declining PvP population and the people left who really care about the game. With these changes and SBMM together, I have little to no hope. However, if there is an announcement of CBMM's return, I'll be at least a little bit at ease.
In my opinion, these are potentially good changes, but there were alternatives to go about it that would have less possible repercussions on the community as a whole. The reason I am so afraid of this is because if PvP has one more notable decline, I predict it would be the end of its life cycle entirely because of how many chances Bungie has been given.
Same
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing your perspective on the update. I'm excited to see how it goes too
When they brought back SBMM, they said exactly that. That there were no tools for players to improve just by dying/being stomped. The "remove SBMM, L2P scrubs!!!" crowd never understood that not having a kill cam like other games is huge. SBMM "fix" that a bit.
Now they're saying it again, with even more stuff added to it.
They should just normalize supers in trials or imo at this point, just have no supers on the game. Main reason void titan is so strong is its super just wins a round in a trials without doing much. Granted the void subclass is really strong, but I loved checkmate weekends allowing to me to use arc titan again just cause supers weren’t on the field. In both checkmates weekends, I only saw 3 supers at the end of a 4-4 game.
great vid, i stopped playing destiny about 6 months ago but still watch your content .
The special ammo points for rumble makes perfect sense. You dont have teammates so assists aren't really assists and you can't plan them, just means someone else got the kill with your help n they're technically your opponent too. Points on death isn't necessary because it just drags out the game with the most killed player having a futile comeback moment, or does literally nothing. Rumble should be the place for players to hone and show off their primary skill and survival going solo, thats always been bungies intent.
First time viewer, and I have to say, I'm loving the Titan bashing! Seriously, my largest issue with the previous iterations of Checkmate was I didn't have any Special ammo to stop the inevitable melee-ape Titan that then kills me. Whoever thought fast Titans was a good idea was either delusional or a Titan main; speed is Hunter territory (and I say that as a Warlock main). Even in regular Crucible (pre-changes), if I'm using a Special weapon, it is saved to counter someone aping me, and 9 times out of 10, that's a Titan (the 10th is always a Stasis or Void Hunter with a shotgun).
If you want to try countering those apes a little better, try adding a mid to close range weapon to your PvP kit, or a high damage weapon like a bow, nothing quite beats mowing down one of those crayon munchers with a sidearm or smg before they get close, or hitting them with a bow and watching them panic as their health vanishes and they can then be beaten at their own game with an uncharged melee.
Additionally as a warlock main myself, solar with icarus dash is great for dodging their attempts which thanks to the nerf that takes energy away when they do that renders them an easier target, even more so after this update goes live as they likely won't have a shotgun to fall back on. Other good options are blink, stasis freeze either via melee or rift or hitting them in the face with a sticky grenade, the magnetic and flux being nice for their one shot potential.
Also while much harder to pull of(but amazing when it works) you can time a well of radiance juuuust right to smack them with the sword and potentially trade with them without losing the well.
I think the perk 'discord' is now S+ tier which is only on about a dozen special weapons right now. might be a good video topic.
I'm pretty sure discord doesn't work if your ammo counter is 0 so you would still need to earn ammo first.
It could help a disciplined and aggressive player stretch the ammo they earn definitely, but I don't think it'll penetrate into the wider meta.
I could be wrong though if they release a bunch of powerful special weapons with the perk as the game goes on.
oh yeah you'll have to earn your ammo first but I think the perk will catch on.@@joshtenney4143
Very excited for the change. I really really really think they need to change resilience asap. Every single guardian inside the crucible should have the same health regardless of resilience. Hunters need mobility and no other class does and it makes it harder to win 1v1 gunfights against warlocks and titans (mostly). If they gave every guardian the same health it would be so much better
I agree with your last points about the bigger issues still having to be addressed
This was super fun to watch live
Da série brasileira da rede Globo: "Entenda como isso é bom".
This update will either destroy the crucible playerbase or make it the same.
Most people i've talked to don't like the checkmate mode.
Seems like you're experiencing an echo chamber. The only people I've spoken to who don't like it are the "furniture" playbase who cheese the meta. The majority of people I spoke to like it. They're casual, older, and tend not to sweat it either way. These are the folk we need to make crucible better for everyone, not just the meta furniture teabagging nerds.
@@j4ksx the large part of the destiny playerbase are horrible at the game and are casuals.
These changes won't affect me, however i know that these changes wont be taken in a possitive way by most players. Snowballin, team shots, the special ammo sistem, all these changes will make a good portion of the pvp playerbase leave out of frustration.
@@Danil_JRK have to agree to disagree here, brother. The population is tiny and it is anything but casual. Most players who still play PvP are sweaty furniture that have been mastering the meta week in week out since day zip. This is pretty much what Bungie have outright states in this twab and are looking to address. If these changes pushes the cheese out of the game and welcomes in new blood to replace it, then it's a net positive. The problem in crucible is the tiny population left and what this tiny population is. It ain't casual, buddy. I try playing casual playlists and it's 6 sweaty teenagers team shooting and cheesing KD like they're Old McDonald...Eeeyaa Eeeyaa Yawn.
Yes. We Titans are a problem we shall persist. 😎
Great vid btw. 😊
Do you think that means 120's loose their ability to 2 head 1 body !? If yes doesnt that mean igneous hammer with precision instrument is going to be meta !?
120s will have a resilience tier 7 breakpoint.
Would be cool if they increased mayhem super cooldown (like private matches), so it can be that playlist with ability spam; part mode :)
Deathballin' is unbearable.. I play only "casual" sixes (and Control is far from casual for a 2-3 months now) I played only like 10 matches of Checkmate Control and left it because of deathballin' everytime.. that is basically the only viable tactic in checkmate control and it's beyond annoying, you get deleted in 0.01 seconds, nobody strays off, everybody is grouped in teamshooting etc. And they say all of these changes are to help new/lower skill players.. HOW? While no word about terrible matchmaking which is the cause of this (I know it's very low population but still, I shouldn't be matched against people doing like 4, 15, 22.0 KD wtf.. I hope we can pressure them to revert these changes and just to leave Checkmate and its variants to Trials and Comp, where it kinda makes sense.
Currently there are no real normal casual modes (I don't count silly stuff like Mayhem..) for us "regular" people who are new/bad/mid and just want to have fun for a couple of hours a day or even a week, everything is a bloody sweatfest, and this will make it even worse..
D2 desperately needs influx of new PVP players just for Crucible to survive and have healthy population.. This will only drive them away, and actually new/low/mid skill players who want to improve are being actively discouraged to stay in PVP, for months now.. and this will only make it worse.. in the end, you're gonna have couple of thousand of hardcores and cheaters left in crucible.. I can't believe Bungie can't see this trend
I'll definitely be happy to see less ability spam, zero skill shotguns, fusions, etc. We've asked for years that the easiest stuff to use not also be the most powerful stuff.
So, slower, boring and everyone shifts to devils ruin. Love your vids Nomad.
Less ability spam, zero skill shotguns, fusions, etc.
@@tomz6594 as ive watched more videos about the topic, i am more optimisitc about the change. Just never want to go back to Midas/Uriels from trials of the nine.
Hand cannon popularity will skyrocket. As all the good players already prefer them and are skilled with them, the skill gap to average / bad players will grow. It will be pretty boring to see even much more hand cannons in PvP and snowballing matches :/ Ps. Great video as always,though I would have preferred just the analysis part, I can always skip the reading out loud part 😏
I am glad they're making an effort to fix some of the issues in pvp but they are still half stepping in some areas and I hate that. Making ttks rely more on crits does not matter that much when alot of meta weapons can hit crits with little effort or skill requirements for the player. The game itself is built around overly generous bullet magnetism and aggressively tracking abilities instead of the skill shot based sandbox they've tried to tell us they were trying to make years ago. I'm really glad they targeted some annoying things that people have crutched for years but its gonna take more fundamental changes for crucible to be in a legitimately good place. On top of that I hate the idea of less space magic in the space magic game. Like don't get me wrong I get satisfaction in getting perfect kills with my primaries but imo destiny should lean into the space magic and make a genuine effort to balance it as a whole instead of just blanket nerfing cooldowns. Like look at the strand changes: threadlings are annoying people so they're getting blanket nerfed and they're counter balancing the nerfs on warlock (the threadling class) by buffing the melee? The melee needed buffs but that doesn't change the fact that the super is inconsistent at best and these changes will push it even more into being one of the worse one and done supers in the game. Where are the well of radiance and bubble balance passes? When are we gonna make warlock void melee consistent? Fix child of the old gods pathing? Melee registration in general? When's the last time you got hit by arcbolt? Flashbang nade? Handheld supernova? Hell all the charged grenades on void lock? Fan of knives? Thunder clap? SHIELD TOSS?! Abilities are part of the bones of the game and need to be balanced properly so just blanket nerfing cooldowns without actually buffing and nerfing the abilities themselves won't solve the problem, its just another bandaid. Checkmate has always been a bandaid on a GSW. It's not helping. If anything it just shines a light on bigger issues in pvp that haven't been actually fixed for years. All we can really do is wait and see but from what I can tell crucible is just going to be even less fun for the average player despite some of these changes benefiting them by forcing other players to play the obj more and use their primaries more. The more destiny changes the more it stays the same. There will still be people running the same cookie cutter loadouts they always do and they'll never get the patches they need to balance them. I mean stompees got how many changes just to still be one of the best pvp exotics, Peacekeepers got nerfed as a whole by 50% and its still just monstrous to fight against and they're still running the same smgs that got ALL smgs nerfed. My whole point is these are alot of changes that don't really balance things the way they should and since crucible will overall be less fun because with all these changes the real problems STILL aren't being addressed so I don't see this moving the needle in the right direction to keep delicated crucible players playing and make people who only play when they have to want to keep playing because they still won't have an enjoyable experience.
Pain point 2; would private matches not help with secondary weapon practice?
All ur going to see in crucible after these changes is smg titans with fusions and shotguns.. sound fun to u? 🙃
I'm really glad they're doing this, but I really wish they'd introduce some variants (For Iron Banner I guess) that has higher special/ability uptime. I spent a fair amount of time this season trying to get good with the Epicdefender playstyle, feels bad to basically be losing an entire loadout slot.
They should bring back invective, ice breaker, and a fuzion equivelent where the whole idea is that it takes forever, but now you can get some reliable ammo at the cost of the ammo for objectives. (In pve they would get a faster ammo generation, bigger mag count, or the ability to pick up normal special ammo)
I feel like if we can keep heavy ammo this could make specials being less prevalent be better for the game in general for shutdowns. Heavy would get a much more needed positional control of the pvp sandbox too.
Scout Rifles will be back for long range engagements! woot
I think "nerfing" (that's how I see it at least) the really good/tryhardy players is REALLY GOOD for casual players, like myself! I feel outclassed rn and feel like there's no room to experiement with offmeta loadouts, but now maybe I could do that. Thank you Bungo
Also- *WOOOOOOO NOMAD UPLOAD!*
Agree with the Titan thing. The fact I'm a Hunter may or may not have something to do with it.
I'm one of the crazy crucible build crafters. We're gonna be fine. We'll still have more ability uptime than our opponents.
This is a great change. I love destiny but I miss the actual "dueling" aspect of games like halo. In destiny pvp if you shoot second you loose the duel 90 percent of the time. Love this change.
YESSS CRUCIBLE DOCTOR laying it down baby!!! Personally Im SO SO pumped for the changes but 99999% aggree (and am also wondering about) how they can make soecial ammo known when somone got it. Sure its in the stupid dumb mini feed that is impossible to watch 24/7 during a gunfight but Ill only catch that 1/100 times somone gets special. Other than that I personally dont think buildcrafting will die in pvp remember abilities r only 15% slower its not like the og checkmate where it was 50% or even 30% like the one u showed with the incendiary with the cabal scout will be FINE just bump ur disapline up a few points and itll only feel a TAD slower. But yeah itll def be slowed a but but not dead imo. 😂😂😂 where is march 5th already? 🎉🎉🎉
My thing is I'm optimistic about these changes
I dont want to get my hopes up just yet
At 2:54 you missed an entire paragraph starting with "It also places a strong. . ."
My biggest worry is this will sunder the game in 2 and pvp will wither and die. Not like it hasn't been doing it but i suspect in more spectacular fashion. The pvp strike team just told me that warlocks don't matter in pvp, so why bother.
soooooooo did they rehire the security team or does none of this matter because trials will still be filled with hackers?
They said all that about wanting people to know what they got killed by, figured they were finally adding killcams
Hopefully private matches have special ammo settings so people can practice
Dude im incredibly excited the changes!
I'm excited for the shakeup. Regardless of how it will end up (it will probably be all fine), I just want to look at a new game, something new to figure out.
Worst thing is for the game to stagnate. I want them to try new things and change things up. Lets go, cant wait for the update.
does that mean my heavy weighted knife won’t longer one shot?
If this is the start of change then it looks as close to a reset as there's been in a long time.
I've no clue whether it will be great or toilet worthy but the shottie/fusion vs sniper vs primary choice will a key part of the build selection and i can see 3 prepared load outs to be applied as we fly out of the loading screen being important.
Initially at least this will slow down the matches until we get the measure of increased "resilience" and how many body shots we can take before dying.
Let's see what else they have in the pipeline but new maps alone won't cut it. Decent reasons to get into the PvP modes have to be central to increase the population. New Redrix, mountaintop or recluse are things they won't be giving us and they kept the PvE players in the crucible as the weapons were too good not to have in the arsenal.
I'm happy to try the new structures but a banner or shader are not going to cut it, if they want me to stay.
Hmmmm.... Getting back destiny 2 vanilla is a good change? I don't know, guys, but this changes sound no good for me. Checkmate was... Fun? First two or three games, but whenever you get to fight against smart players, it becomes a teamshot simulator. No skill, no exciting gameplay, just teamshot. And this kind of gameplay is what almost killed this game many years ago, while the opposite one (tons of amo, tons of broken weapons, tons of abilities. Basically, Forsaken) literally made destiny one of the better games to play. I don't know, guys, I think I am leaving the game next season if bungie trully do what they say :/
They should seriously just decouple pve and pvp entirely.
I think the body shot changes are fine, but they're gonna kill specials with this. My biggest problem is I don't think I care because I haven't played a single time this season. My favorite thing was the weapons, but now everything looks the same. Easiest job on the planet is the destiny rewards designer cause you get to grab any old existing weapon skin and plug numbers in. I might not even come back for final shape, especially if everything is just a reskin for the 100th time
Am I the only one who thinks this just means that the team shot meta will be the only meta moving forward?
Crushed it. Haven’t played much since last April apart from a two week stint for crotas End but this was an excellent video.
Very good 1 for the algorithm Thanks
Loved the format, if it works for you, keep it coming.
If you were here long enough, they did a similar changes before. they realised it didnt work. because it sucked. so they changed it back. now they changed it again? do they not keep a list of things they have "tested" before?
i dont think this will work.
this is a SPACE MAGIC GAME FFS. stop trying to turn this into some COD nonsense shooting only game nonsense.
Love this style of content.
I think they should show special ammo under players names as a bar
I just hope it doesn't weed out casual players who were currently having fun getting easy kills each game without any grind.
Great video. I was literally cheering as I was reading this twab. I have been disenfranchised with crucible for a long time now and these changes are finally addressing some huge painpoints for me. I'm excited to jump back in once these changes are live.
Head Seeker = The new meta. Congratulations.
"Special ammo meter"... geez, I don't like the looks of that -- a skilled primary user will earn special ammo 2x faster than a lesser skilled player (23 points per kill vs 10 points per death).
That feels like the strong get stronger to me (especially in Rumble), so it'll be interesting to see how it actually plays.
Thanks I needed an opinion from a trusted commentator.
I’m just wondering why they can’t add a killcam in the game mode. It would help you improve and make cheaters 10X easier to spot
Be honest, if you can't identify why you died, then idk. It's easy to know that maybe you pushed with the wrong weapon, pushed at the wrong time, peeked the wrong corner, didn't have awareness of the situation. I think more so than anything most d2 players lack situational awareness and they play very passive
ngl it’s funny as shit to see Bungie do this so soon after overwatch made every projectile way easier to hit
With the integration of checkmate into the normal sandbox I think bungie really needs to rethink trials as a game mode, mostly just the dominion part.
I can imagine a 4-4 game against a bubble titan and/or a wellock, and literally not being able to do anything against it because you have no special ammo availabe
when I said special ammo kills should prevent the enemies special ammo from dropping, people said I was crazy, WHOSE CRAZY NOW?
I have to wonder if this is a direct consequence of a Halo 3 Multiplayer design lead taking the reigns as lead game director. If so, I'm lowkey here for it. PvP was the only thing keeping me playing over the years and it's become such a shitshow now.