What If Isildur Had Survived (with the One Ring)? Theory
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2023
- Isildur’s loss of the One Ring and tragic end by the arrows of the Orcs in the waters of Anduin was a tragedy, and set much of the Third Age in its place. However, what if Isildur had survived and maintained possession of the One Ring? Thank you all for watching, let me know your thoughts on this theory in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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This alternate history doesn’t seem to take into account that Isildure has come to recognize that he would never be able to bend the ring to his will and that he was actually bringing the ring to Elrond for council because he believed that the keepers of the 3 would be better equipped to deal with the ring
I think the idea here is that the Gladden Fields becomes the moment when Isildur fell to the One Ring as Frodo did at the Sammath Naur.
No he would never do it,isildur would have,destoyed the only ring in person,so sauron would never have become the king from the middle earth
Isildur indeed had a tremendous strength of will, he didn't took the ring out of temptation but really as a wergeld, not knowing the evil in it. I think he would have brought it to "the keepers of the three" as he said to his son
@@yannickramouillet3742I don't agree. I think you're underestimating just how alluring the One Ring can be. Remember, it had a will of its own.
@@omniexistusThe One Ring was at it's weakest after Sauron was defeated, Isildur would have easily been able to resist the Ring as long as he stayed away from Mount Doom proper.
I rhink that the Elves wod have sailed away. Even when Sauron was back, they helped put some on a possible path to defeat him, but then they planned not to wait around for a victor. They had little reason to believe Men would triumph, and planned to use their "get out of jail free" cards to evade the Dark Lord, as Eru was willing to let them flee His project, and go somewhere safe, but only them. If they knew they couldn't win, i think they might have left, and let whichever Dark Lord rule, until the world was wrecked, and the Valar could sail in, crump them, and then the elves would return, and reshape what was left.
Maybe Sauron's greatest fear would be Isildur using the ring of power and realizing Boromir's great dream - a great empire composed of a great confederation of peoples:
"The Ring would give me power of Command. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!’ Boromir strode up and down, speaking ever more loudly. Almost he seemed to have forgotten Frodo, while his talk dwelt on walls and weapons, and the mustering of men; and he drew plans for great alliances and glorious victories to be; and he cast down Mordor, and became himself a mighty king, benevolent and wise."
Isildur is not bad man,would hav the possibility destroy single ring,he would af done,sauron would be defeated,boromir,he didn't seal it,the would figth together to they friends,the salvation of middle earth
Exactly. Look for my recent post below this video. I explain it further why I think isildur would be a success.
@@claudiacabra2300 Tolkien specifically wrote that no one in Middle-Earth could intentionally destroy the One Ring.
I need to say that Elrond would not be so laid back as to let Isildur off the hook.
He would have said "Isildur I know you possess the One. I, Cirdan, and Galadriel can see it around your neck. A wheel of fire around your heart." Isildur answered "The Ring is not yours, I took it from Sauron the slayer of my kin, I will not relinquish this precious thing. YOU THREE SEEK IT FOR YOUR OWN". Isildur rises to leave but Galadriel then telepathically shows Isildur what evils Morgoth brought to bare upon Middle Earth during the First Age, showing to Isildur the faces of those who stood against him, Isildur halted in place. Cirdan taking initiative of this moment would then use HIS ring along side Galadriel's, putting visions of his own foresight in Isildur's mind, visions of what will come should he keep the One Ring, seeing a tyrant like Sauron AND Morgoth, a man of wrath whose rule would encompass all of Middle Earth. Elrond would likewise step in, using his power to subdue the surging power of the One Ring on Isildur.
As strong in will power as Isildur is, he is is no match for the likes of the Keepers of the Three who have possessed the rings long enough to know of their power and Isildur only knows the burden and pain of possessing the One and also its dark whispers and lies. He then clutches his fist around it "THE RING IS MINE" he shouts, Sauron can be heard behind him, his eyes igniting with fury. The will of the One (of Sauron) would conflict with the powers in mind of the Keepers of the Three, the sky itself turns dark and a wind grows around them. A battle of wills commences, powers of mind clashing back and forth, the Three against One, until eventually Isildur remembers his brother Anarion, his father Elendil and in that fateful moment Isildur would finally be free of the Ring and cast it upon the table at which him and the council sat, recoiling away from the object. Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan sighed in relief with a sense of accomplishment and would then comfort Isildur, bringing him to rest in the house of Elrond to ease his spirit.
The One Ring would then be brought into a secret chamber within Rivindell and kept under lock and key, until it's fate is one day decided.
*me remembering this is a comment Woah, I really put a lot into this
The Ring would never get that far in corrupting Isildur at all, people don't take into considering that after Sauron's 1st defeat that the One Ring was at it's absolute weakest it had ever been and ever would be.
Isildur is an incredibly powerful Human, from a line of nothing but the best of Humanity, it would take decades and eventually the awakening of Sauron in earnest to corrupt him just as it slowly became doing to Bilbo.
@@maylabrown4584 i guess though. Still this scenario would be epic. Maybe I'd reset the timing about 10 maybe 20 years into Isildur's reign
Awesome comment mate I love your version as well.
There's a theory that Isildur was taking the ring to Elrond as he passed through the Gladden Fields and was killed. In the books, Isildur after the Last Alliance of Elves and men didn't take the ring to Mount Doom like in the movies, but took it back to Minas Tirith to see if he could use the ring for good. After spending years studying the ring and trying all the ways he could to use the ring for good, he found that it was not possible. So he decided to take it to someone more wise than he and see if he would know what do do with it. So if he survived may he not have simply completed this errand and shown it to Elrond to see what Elrond would advise him to do?
It’s not just a theory, it’s exactly what Isildur said he was trying to do, and was on the way to bring the ring to Elrond when he got ambushed. This is described in the book “Unfinished Tales.”
I am more in line with this theory actually.
That's an interesting idea that the Gladden Fields would become the moment that Isildur fell to the One Ring, particularly because he had planned to stop in Imladris to consult with Elrond on the matter of the effect the One Ring was having on the king.
The Elves were already leaving Middle-Earth; I don't think they would have had any chance in a war with Gondor and Arnor so they would have left. Eventually Sauron would have returned and that would make for an interesting sequel to this story.
This was a fascinating speculation! It very much supports the plot of the original work as the only feasible solution to the dangers of Sauron. That ring just had to go!
Here is why I think isildur would be a success with the ring outside of being of the line of Númenoreans that had the thousands of Annatar’s armies run away in terror upon the sight of their armadas showing up as they gleam in their 7 to 8 feet tall glory even with Annatar at the helm of those armies still fled - The Peter Jackson movies are masterpieces but they do Isildur some injustice. In the books, while he later ‘succumbs’, he spends his time being a fair ruler who practically gave power away to the people instead of being power hungry. He comes to realize that he is not powerful enough to truly bend the ring to his will. That it will eventually overcome him. Isildur resolves to give the ring to Elrond but is killed on the way to Rivendel. It's a tragic story of a man that tries to right his wrong but ultimately fails.
In the books isildur literally repented and was about to bring the ring to Rivendell and apologize as he recognized it was beyond him even for a great numenorean connected to the faithful line of the mighty Elendil
I preface the prologue & war, other depictions I LOVE, captured the themes WELL, the vibe of the whole trilogy! The significance of the duel between Elendil & Sauron was Nerffed; (He wasn’t some random old bloke in armour getting smacked around) This man was MIGHTY and gleaming with power which you’ll find out in the great videos you’ll soon react to with joy!
* He and Gil-Galad; last true Elven King battled Sauron and slayed Sauron’s physical body and both died in the process. GilGalad was held high by the face for all free peoples to see as he then incinerated his bodily form to a crisp of ash! Isildur was part of the fight too but not as prominently and he just comes up to the body to cut the ring finger off and…. So one example is how easily Sauron is killed in the intro.
* He's set up as this super powered badass, but all you have to do is cut off his finger? That's not how it went down in the book, where the greatest man-king and the greatest elven-king had to double-team Sauron to strike down his body, but were killed in the effort (Isildur then cuts the ring from the corpse).
Especially for elves the title of king has many meanings & by the Third Age there isn’t a population large enough to even attempt to such a thing as creating a unified kingdom which would put a target on their backs, let alone many of them are beyond all of that anyway as it’s seen as doing more harm than anything good.
* They also seen what happened when the elves fell upon the swords of their own hubris and passion no matter if it was for the right reasons some of the time. That it always ended up in some sort of tragedy which sometimes even damaged the earth itself.
They had long known about what’s called the Long Defeat as ever since Morgoth’s marring of the land itself; pouring his remnants into it that caused the “magic” to slowly drain away from the land itself which is sad because for ages several clans of elves were born there. even the greatest ancestors were “born” in middle earth awakening to the stars !
Many of who are left have accepted the next phase of their life which is to become councillors, healers and loremasters to those within the heart to listen and the desire to learn. But above all the guardians and custodians of several things and the world itself for as long as they can remain!❤ The elves “exist” as long as the world does. And Tolkien made it obvious in many ways that it’s our world as he restored Anglo Saxon culture/Mythologies and folklore, and their languages too alongside Irish, Welsh and Finnish mythologies too. Especially Norwegian(of which I am)
This is what Amazon didn’t deliver (AKA the actual story which inspired everything we love into existence with games and movies and books and so forth. Skyrim, elder scrolls, oblivion, Diablo, and world of Warcraft and D&D. And Game Of Thrones was hugely inspired by Tolkien… yet as the godfather of everything and the heart of what caused many peoples lives to be saved cannot get the justice it deserves for adaptations? People literally conquered cancer because of the books and the trilogy, the books were read to their children for years. All 25 of them. The man was a hugely respected scholar and professor in the world. Translated ancient artifacts and hieroglyphs and petroglyphs and so forth for the government etc. even rejected being recruited into the CIA several times and he wrote everyone by letter. The fans especially. He’d write back to everyone back and forth and many have shared the stories regarding these conversations which were past down throughout the family lines of the people who had a personal relationship with Tolkien which was hundreds of people when he was alive. Thousands.
Even if Isildur had survived and given the One Ring to Elrond, the threat the Ring poses remains. Remember how close Galadriel came to taking the One Ring when Frodo offered it to her? And Gandalf's reason for not taking the Ring when Frodo offered it to him? Isildur was trying to do the right thing in taking it to Imladris but they still would have been faced with the problem of destroying it and Tolkien wrote that no one in Middle-Earth could intentionally destroy the One Ring.
@@istari0 it wouldn’t be an evil Galadriel. She evebwittour the ring could subdue him and from her mastery of all things taught by the Valar could teach puts her at the top of being able to use it and not let Sauron take control. Even Tolkien stated she’d be able to do so but it’d end up causing the world to become an eternal forest spreading far and wide. Even without any rings he was afraid of her for a dozen reasons. Couldn’t even read her mind nor influence it.
With the ring he said she’d be able to fully subdue him and fully keep him outside of her in all ways. But he’d remain alive in some form. Becoming non potent like he did when he was set into a zone where he couldn’t interact with the world etc.
@@istari0 Glorfindel would willingly get rid of it. But his presence in the unseen realm would get the eye of Sauron on the company which is why he went off temporarily in an erratic ride to different directions to have his eye fixed upon him since his Fëa was like a pillar of light becoming a become for those like Sauron anywhere he moves so the fellowship would get a head start.
"I was there the day the strength of men failed."
Very interesting change of history. It's not a matter of if the ring would corrupt but how. Isildur following in the footsteps of the last king of Numenor seems darkly poetic. But the elves would have eventually stood against this, albiet too late to significantly change the course but they would b compelled at some point, no?
Seems it's true; u die a hero or live long enough to become the villain
Fantastic alternate history.
You are a wonderful storyteller. Looking forward to the next story…What if someone got all 20 rings of power! 😮
I think the elves would have fled to the West. They would have seen in Isildur the spirit of Ar-Pharazon and would want to have escaped Middle-Earth before it suffered the same fate as Numenor.
I still wish to see a WHAT IF video about the Three Elf rings. About what if they never lost their powers after The One Ring was destreyed.
This alternate history does not take into account the working of Providence (in the context of Middle Earth: the Valar).
Even if Isildur had survived and retained the Ring, light would have found a way to defeat darkness.
True but that might not have happened for quite some time.
Man, what a theory!!! I was getting tense at points, this was really something!!!
Thanks Again for another Theory, until What If someone had all 20 *OP super OP* RIngs..Marion Baggins Out!!!
Nice work dude thanks
This is a very interesting theory Yoystan. To answer your question on how the elves would react. My theory is that Elrond, and Galadriel would unite, and also they’d gather the dwarves of Durin to combat Isildur and his empire. This would lead to a war titled, “The battle of the children of Illuvitar,” and every battlefield would have rain since the elves can sense these are Illuvitar’s tears, and this war would last for in my opinion 10 years and this would push the Arnorians all the way to the mountains, and the Gondorians would assist the united dwarven and elven army since I think they’d be led by the new faithful. Later after living in the mountains the Arnorians soon abandon Isildur and surrender to the united army and he would later be alone in a cave holding the ring and call it, “MY PRECIOUS!” Elrond would then stab his former friend with his sword and finally take the ring from the broken king. There would be peace for a time but even in the safety of Rivendell Elrond and the others knew the ring had to be destroyed so he alone gathers a small band of companies and decides to venture to Mordor but he sees Mount Doom erupting and senses the spirit of Sauron gathering his forces. Apologizes if this seemed long I’m something of a writer so sorry if this was a long read.
I really enjoy your what if videos
If he had survived with the One Ring arrows and all, he’d then be considered….a “Holy Man” though I also like Shadow of Wars interpretation of him becoming a Nazgûl
It took enormous power to create the Nazgûl and the king defeat through Morgoth’s Ring(his poisonous essence poured into the world itself causing to the magic to bleed from the world over time. Enhancing fading etc etc)
Check out Why Tolkien Cannot Be Counterfeited.
Isildur it didn 't become a nazgul,he remined human,he would continue to figth,togheter with relatives and friends,the of salvation of middle earth
Great Video! You should do an alternate What if to this where Isildur survives but loses the ring in the river?
The Elves would have departed for Valinor. Even Thranduil, who had no love for the Noldor, would have seen the danger and departed with the vast majority of his folk. Any of the Silvan elves that dared to stay behind would have eventually been swept up in Isildur's crusades along with the Orcs or Trolls if the High King of Men was convinced, by being corrupted by the Ring, that the few elves remaining were just as deserving of death as Sauron's minions were.
The interesting part would happen much later though. What would happen when Sauron returned? He would encounter a wildly strong realm of corrupted Men, all the Elves of significance departed to the West, the Orcs & Trolls of western Middle Earth effectively exterminated, and a maniacally enraged Isildur who had effectively turned by the Ring into a some sort of super-wraith who truly wanted to tear Sauron to shreds. I don't think the same tricks Sauron used to destroy Numenor would have worked at all in this sort of scenario.
And would the Istari even be sent to Middle Earth at all? If the Valar decided that, with the vast majority of the Elves having all come to Valinor, Middle Earth under the tyranny of Isildur (a Man) was not their issue to deal with, the way they eventually would have if the world came under the tyranny of Sauron (a Maiar), they might just leave the situation as is. Isildur's rule, even if corrupt, could technically be seen as Men finally inheriting all of Middle Earth as per Eru's design. How Men governed themselves afterwards never was the duty of the Valar to supervise.
Thank you
Very good 🎉, I wish more and more story like that
Poor Isildur! I think he would've been willing to *try* to destroy the ring - that's my reading of The Disaster of Gladden Fields, at least. Would he have failed at the last moment? Probably, but Providence would provide. As for this version, I think the Elves would've fought. It's only a few years after the last war, and they have more strength then they would 3000 years later.
very cool theory cheers :)
There are a lot of times in Tolkin literature when thing that looks as the will of the evil actually coming to be good. I love it!!
What if the Easterlings and Haradrim betrayed Sauron
Hello, new subscriber here. I have always wondered, how come when Elrond and Isildur first travelled to Mt. Doom, Elrond didnt just smite Isildur once he became aware of his corruption by the one ring.
Full disclossure i have never read any of the books only watched the movies, forgive me if this seems like a stupid question.
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He wouldn’t do that for a number of reasons and in the books is very very different. Simply put It’d cause a war of its own if he fricken killed off the king of these superhuman men which lineages span back thousands of years. Plus isildur is his great grea great great great nephew a hundred times removed through Elronds brother Elros who became Tar Minyatur. For the whole thing watch Tolkien Untangled’s “Elrond’s epic history, it’s a sad story”. And then the 3 hour one from Philospher’s games.
The Peter Jackson movies are masterpieces but they do Isildur some injustice. In the books, while he later ‘succumbs’, he spends his time being a fair ruler who practically gave power away to the people instead of being power hungry. He comes to realize that he is not powerful enough to truly bend the ring to his will. That it will eventually overcome him. Isildur resolves to give the ring to Elrond but is killed on the way to Rivendel. It's a tragic story of a man that tries to right his wrong but ultimately fails.
In the books isildur literally repented and was about to bring the ring to Rivendell and apologize as he recognized it was beyond him even for a great numenorean connected to the faithful line of the mighty Elendil
I preface the prologue & war, other depictions I LOVE, captured the themes WELL, the vibe of the whole trilogy! The significance of the duel between Elendil & Sauron was Nerffed; (He wasn’t some random old bloke in armour getting smacked around) This man was MIGHTY and gleaming with power which you’ll find out in the great videos you’ll soon react to with joy!
* He and Gil-Galad; last true Elven King battled Sauron and slayed Sauron’s physical body and both died in the process. GilGalad was held high by the face for all free peoples to see as he then incinerated his bodily form to a crisp of ash! Isildur was part of the fight too but not as prominently and he just comes up to the body to cut the ring finger off and…. So one example is how easily Sauron is killed in the intro.
* He's set up as this super powered badass, but all you have to do is cut off his finger? That's not how it went down in the book, where the greatest man-king and the greatest elven-king had to double-team Sauron to strike down his body, but were killed in the effort (Isildur then cuts the ring from the corpse).
Especially for elves the title of king has many meanings & by the Third Age there isn’t a population large enough to even attempt to such a thing as creating a unified kingdom which would put a target on their backs, let alone many of them are beyond all of that anyway as it’s seen as doing more harm than anything good.
* They also seen what happened when the elves fell upon the swords of their own hubris and passion no matter if it was for the right reasons some of the time. That it always ended up in some sort of tragedy which sometimes even damaged the earth itself.
They had long known about what’s called the Long Defeat as ever since Morgoth’s marring of the land itself; pouring his remnants into it that caused the “magic” to slowly drain away from the land itself which is sad because for ages several clans of elves were born there. even the greatest ancestors were “born” in middle earth awakening to the stars !
Many of who are left have accepted the next phase of their life which is to become councillors, healers and loremasters to those within the heart to listen and the desire to learn. But above all the guardians and custodians of several things and the world itself for as long as they can remain!❤ The elves “exist” as long as the world does. And Tolkien made it obvious in many ways that it’s our world as he restored Anglo Saxon culture/Mythologies and folklore, and their languages too alongside Irish, Welsh and Finnish mythologies too. Especially Norwegian(of which I am)
This is what Amazon didn’t deliver (AKA the actual story which inspired everything we love into existence with games and movies and books and so forth. Skyrim, elder scrolls, oblivion, Diablo, and world of Warcraft and D&D. And Game Of Thrones was hugely inspired by Tolkien… yet as the godfather of everything and the heart of what caused many peoples lives to be saved cannot get the justice it deserves for adaptations? People literally conquered cancer because of the books and the trilogy, the books were read to their children for years. All 25 of them. The man was a hugely respected scholar and professor in the world. Translated ancient artifacts and hieroglyphs and petroglyphs and so forth for the government etc. even rejected being recruited into the CIA several times and he wrote everyone by letter. The fans especially. He’d write back to everyone back and forth and many have shared the stories regarding these conversations which were past down throughout the family lines of the people who had a personal relationship with Tolkien which was hundreds of people when he was alive. Thousands.
It would not have been within Elrond's character to kill Isildur. Elrond's power was in wisdom. He would have tried with all his might to persuade Isildur to destroy the Ring. But killing and taking the One Ring by force would have been very dangerous for Elrond.
Isildur it didn 't become a nazgul,he would remain human,he continue to figth togheter whit his relatives and friends,againist sauron's army
I expected this What If to end poorly. Most of them do other than Saruman never turning evil and Thorin living ones.
What if the Oathbreakers had been loyal in the War of the Last Alliance?
What if videos are my absolute favourite.. The Elves are left with two choices and both are bad. They are aware they could not resist for a long time in a war with the Numenoreans, but they were aware as well that Sauron sooner or later would have returned to seek vengeaance . Therefore they chose survival and left Middle Earth . I’m wondering if the Valar would have sent the Istari to help and support the few free peoples who remained in Middle Earth
The hard cold lesson is the One Ring no matter who possessed it had to be destroyed no matter what. It would bring anyone and anything to ultimate ruin.
Good video
Here's an idea that is a slight difference: what if Isildur survived without the Ring? Shortly before the disaster of the Gladden Fields and his death, Isildur said to one of his companions that he had actually noticed the corruption of the Ring, and that it should go to the keepers of the Three. This suggests that had he made it to Rivendell without incident, he probably would have willingly given the Ring up to Elrond, Galadriel, and Cirdan.
If Isildur had survived, he would have realized that the One Ring had to be destroyed (as Elrond suggested) due to the pain of his sons dying in the Gladden Fields, and the One Ring would have been taken to Orodruin and destroyed in an expedition at the beginning of the Third Age.
If Isildur had not lost the One Ring and kept it from those around him:
1) The anomaly observed in his natural aging process would have created doubt in him that the One Ring could be found.
2) Those who wielded the Threes could mentally perceive Isildur when he wielded the One Ring. This would again create suspicion that Isildur had the One Ring.
As a result, it seems unlikely that Isildur would hide the One Ring from those around him. Additionally, the long life (until it fades) that the One Ring would provide would also cause him to become corrupted by power (like Ar-Pharazôn). It could even cause a further conflict between Elves and Men. When I considered this theory, I came to the conclusion that it is a good thing Isildur died.
Recall when Legolas and Gimli discussed what might have happened if Aragorn had taken the Ring. They perceived that it would have been a terrible thing, Aragorn already being of a high lineage and noble, with a great power already within him. They saw that the Ring would have both augmented everything that Aragorn was within himself, but also the Ring would subvert all of this to evil. This would not be any less true of Isildur, had he lived.
Would the elves have warred, or left Middle-earth? I think they would have left; the might of the Arnor and Gondor was already greater than that of the elves. The Last Alliance had cost the elves dearly. I doubt the elves by this time had the military strength to win against Isildur, and they might well have questioned the point of continuing to fight the legacy of Sauron, this time without the men in alliance with them. They might have seen it as a war they could not win.
I could see Isildur going farther and use it more and even beliving he had mastery over it. Maybe eventually declaring a new darkness, but Sauron would return and claim The One back and show who is the true Lord of The Rings.
I think one thing that you missed is by the third age which Isildor would have lived in, Gandalf and the other wizards would have arrived in Middle Earth. Alternatively they may have been sent sooner than in canon due to the ring poisoning his mind. Another thing to consider is that he found it impossible to bend the ring to his will. So he would have likely locked it away somewhere secret, somewhere he thought was safe. He would likely try to find a way to destroy the ring without entering Mordor, and fail. If it came to that. I don't think Isildor could destroy the ring without destroying himself. As Gollom fell because of Iluvitar, it's likely Iluvitar would give Isildor the grace to throw himself into the fire with the ring. The kingdom of men would see him as a martyr, as in his final movement he sacrificed himself to destroy The One Ring.
I would like to see “What if Theodred survived?” I feel he’s one of the tragic few who could’ve been a great during The War of the Ring
I think another interesting what if would be what if he survived the ring abandoning him.
Oh another one. What if the Last king of Arnor had listened to the warning of the men of the ice and stayed with them till winter ended.
I really like the new name for the reforged Narsil.
If Isildur had become a 400 year old tyrant, corrupted by Sauron's One Ring, the elves would have known that they could not beat him. Men were more numerous than elves in the Third Age, and the elves no longer had the strength they had in the Second Age when Gil-galad led them. Rather than fight a losing war, they would have sailed west. But the Valar would not have given up on men, and they would have sent the Istari to save Middle-Earth. Gandalf and the other Istari would have had a nearly impossible challenge, for they would have faced a tyrannical Numenorian king with vast armies, wielding the One RIng, and a rising Sauron gathering strength just outside Isildur's kingdom.
Well you ask what do we think the Elves would do, but that question assumes the Elves were a monolith, which they were not, and not all Elves were of even temperament, and so with that in mind, I believe some would have gone to war, some would have sailed away, but what I am sure of is if the Elves had defeated Isildur and taken ownership of the ring, it would not have ended well for any of the Children of Ilúvatar.
I think some of the elves would have given Middle Earth up as a bad job at this point and sailed to Valinor, but I think others would have remained, lacking the strength to take the offensive and seize the Ring from Isildur by force. These elves would likely have focused on building up their own defenses and trying to wait it out, as the Ring would gradually turn Isildur into a wraith. Unlike the Nazgul, his change from man to wraith would be from the Ruling Ring rather than one of the Nine Rings that were subject to it, so it's hard to say in what ways he would be different from the Ringwraiths and in what ways he would be similar to them. While the elves were waiting for Isildur to finish falling under the Ring's power, there would also be time for other events to potentially happen. The Ring, for example, would still be hostile to Isildur and would try to betray him if the opportunity arose. It could certainly incite those near Isildur to try to overthrow him and take it for themselves. If someone succeeded in doing so, and if the elves were ready and waiting, they could pounce on the Ring's new owner before that owner could reach Isildur's level of power, get ahold of the Ring, and hopefully destroy it before it corrupted them.
What if Fingolfin killed Morgoth in their Duel?
Nice video. But I disagree with it. I believe Isildur would have given the ring to Elrond. I have this from unfinished tales when Isildur planned to give the ring to the elves when he returned. I recall reading somewhere that while in Gondor, Isildur was having second thoughts about the ring.
Can you do a video on what if the nirnaeth arnoridiad was successful
I want "what if Farmer Maggot got the one ring, and raised an army of Mr. Potatohead-Hai."
It always seemed to me that the way Isildur die was a week point in Tolkiens lore. I mean... the high king of the faithful, a great prince of Numenor, high king of Arnor and Gondor, the guy who fought in the biggest war of the second age and not only survived but gets to cut the ring of the hand of the most powerful being in middle Earth... gets ambushed and killed by some Orks, in some valley beside the river. Come on now....
As Isildur gained power through the ring, the Nazgul are summoned to his power. The 9 revealed themselves as the kingdom of Angmar arises. Riverdell is assaulted and the elves flee at great loss. With Smaug in Erebor and a new dark lord in Arnor, Saurman joins forces with Gandalf to assault Isildur. All along, Sauron waits to take the ring from the winner of the war.
If the elves tried to take Isildur and the Ring by force, Sauron and his allies would have just destroyed who ever 'won'.
If the elves give up and leave Middle Earth, Sauron sends an ally like Wormtongue and Sauron eventually has an accident and the Ring is returned to Sauron. Or with the Elves gone Sauron just destroys Isildur and ends the remnants of The Men of the West.
For me it begs the question of why the Ring left him if he would have been so powerful. Maybe the Ring thought it actually couldn't corrupt him as much as it wanted? Meaning this theory might have turned out much differently: perhaps the Ring would have tried to corrupt one of Isildur's underlings to murder him?
Wouldn't the holders of the Three be aware of each time Isildur put on the One?
Exactly. And Galadriel from the times before the sun and the moon would easily thwart the little shite and subdue him and even without any rings she could block Sauron out of her mind and so forth. He was afraid of her for several reasons.
When Sauron had the One Ring, the keepers of the Three dared not put on their rings for fear of Sauron being able to dominate them. Isildur was of course not nearly so powerful but I would not assume that he, using the One Ring, would have posed no threat to the wearers of the Three.
I get the idea of all your what ifs is that everything needed to happen exactly as it did for a happy ending, but it does lose a lot of the charm of fanfiction, which is ultimately what "what ifs" are, to have every story go like this...
I wonder what would have happened if Bilbo had left the Shire in the Beginning of Fellowship with the One Ring still in his possession.
I guess we'd not have any more second breakfasts
Funny how so many artists put beards on the Numenoreans
Yes the Numenorians of the royal line of Elros would have been beardless. The non royal Numenorians however would have been able to grow beards. though.
@@Alexs.2599 hmm, something about that doesn’t sound quite right to me. Or my understanding of events at least is wrong.
Ar Pharazôn was the last King of Numenor and Elendil was the High King of Arnor and Gondor.
But they’re not related, so Elendil is a Numenorean but not “Numenorean royalty”.
So Elendil can have a beard but, after he becomes King, none of his ancestors (ie Aragorn) have facial hair?
@@David.Bowman. No Elendil is a direct descendant of the first king of Numenor Elros, who was the twin brother of Elrond. His Great Great Great Great etc Grandmother was Silmariën the daughter of Tar-Elendil the fourth king of Numenor. But because she was a woman at the time she could not inherited the throne. She was the eldest child of the king but her younger brother Meneldur inherited the throne. Aragorn's lineage comes from that line. So Elendil is indeed of the royal line of Elros through Silmariën. So Elendil, Isildur and his brother Anárion and their descendants would be beardless because of the Elven strain in their bloodline. Elendil was related to Ar-Pharazôn, they were cousins. They were both of the royal line of Elros, though Ar-Pharazôn usurped the throne from his wife Tar-Míriel.
@@Alexs.2599 ahhhh, thanks for clearing that up. I’m not so familiar with Numenor or the Silmarillion material, still mostly muddling my way through the Lord of the Rings!
@@David.Bowman.Oh no problem happy to help. Yeah it's definitely a deep dive into the lore for sure. Cheers 👍
He would begin well, but I cannot say the same for his ending. It is unlikely that he would give up the Ring to his son, even if he planned to do that initially.
Vengeance begets vengeance.
There are only two ways tobreak this cycle.
One is to commit the ultimate sin: ge ocide.
The other is that a great power commits to always protect the weak against the strong, until, in time, the weak and the strong become the same, and become one.
The ring amplifies whatever the wearer posses. Isildur would have been a Tyrant of Order.
Wasn’t Isldur on his way to give up the ring to the Elves prior to his death?
Does a man have to wear the ring a lot to be turned into a ring wraith, or does simply possessing it have the same effects?
The reason I ask is because if he never wears it, and never turns. He would eventually die of old age, and the elves could wait for him to pass and take the ring, or have whoever would be taking is place as king ready to claim it and then destroy it.
Hopefully he’d make it easier by wanting buried with his prized ring, then you just rob his grave of it, and go destroy it.
Mortal beings are not cut out for infinitely long lives in this plane of existence, with or without a totally evil, corrupt Ring, lol! Life, if Long---even the most positive, upbeat, and BLESSED life, is also full of heart-break, as all those you knew in youth or raised as children, age, grow old, die. The only way through and to endure, is being At One with the Love-Light-Source from the Other Side...because that Love is Infinite. The Elves dance between both Worlds, which is why they can remain unchanging as well as balanced and sane. Also, in your imaginative narrative---Sauron was defeated and withdrew----but you know he was still there. He would once again regroup. The only sure way to exterminate him was the destruction of his Ring. I think, ultimately, Isildur would have become a form of Ring-Wraith---and been drawn to wherever Sauron was hiding---and maybe even merged with him---then, die. Not Good. Isildur's Rule with the Ring of Dark Powers would have enriched the "memory" of the Ring itself, and so make Sauron stronger, more able to Read and Divine the Minds of Men.
I think the elves would’ve left Middle-Earth and left men to their fate.
`I think it is time...
elves could have hid until the right time to act and end the ring too, wait for the faithful good humans to rise up
An interesting and viable alternative history. But it still does not address what I asked a few of your posts ago: how did Isildur know the ring would make him invisible?
He had it for two years. It probably wasn't the first time he had put it on.
Isildur after fighting the orcs,he had invisible distract enemys,save his relatives and allies
What if the Wizard said come in this alternate history?
Would the Valar still sent the Wizards to aid the people of Middle-Earth?
How the War of the Last Alliance should have ended.
Elrond: I can't cast it into the fire for you... BUT I CAN CAST YOU!
Sadly neither version happened in the books. He and his father and Gil Galad slayed the physical form of Sauron easily. (Sauron lifted Gil Galad by the face for all thousands to see among all free peoples and his body incinerated to ash in a spontaneous flame.
@@Makkaru112 Easily? Sauron had to fight his way from Barad-dûr to Orodruin to finally face-off against Elendil and Gil-Galad and they died in the battle where they slew the Dark Lord. There was nothing easy about that.
I think this is silly isildur wanted to get the ring out of his sight and felt pain when he touched the one 💍 and wanted to give the to the wisest
Shadow of War pretty much answer that.
Wrong
THE ELVES, I BELIEVE WOULD HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE A GREATER DESTINY FOR THE ALLIANCES OF MIDDLE EARTH, I THINK COULD HAVE BEEN GREAT
It would have been better for the world if Elrond and Cirdan and their soliers had cast Isildur and the Ring into the Sammath Naur nigh at hand,
And what's Sauron doing during all this? 😂
I imagine the story takes place in the time before Sauron returned.
Why has nobody considered just taking the damn thing to Valinor? The stupid Ainur are the cause of this problem, drop it at their feet to deal with
Random thought, but what if Faramir went into Mordor with Frodo and Sam and Gollum?