Small correction is that Qmeng didn't remove their affiliation to alien stage and they scrubbed their account before this situation! They just made a website that would link you to their affiliation however their arts on the account shown are still deleted, Vivinos still no longer follows qmeng, and Qmeng's description still has no mention of Vivinos or Alien Stage. (Which is unlikely even has any relation to this situation) Also yall it’s not misogynistic to have a preference! Some of y’all have the same mindset of the person who harassed qmeng. Ivan and Till being fandom popular can easily be explained for various reasons that stems from relevancy, the kiss, the fact that Sua has been dead for over a year and round 7 with Luka who people are wondering about Ivan AND Mizi(in addition Hyuna). Saying a gay ship overshadowing a lesbian ship is just bringing more unnecessary conflict to a story that should go beyond labels and that IS beyond labels. Alien Stage is a story not just “gay” and caring more about the ships that other people like than the actual story is just baffling to me. My argument is just that the character dynamic should triumph the fact that they’re gay/lesbian, because in hindsight we’re all human. If you like a ship, show you like it! Don’t artificially bring it up because you feel bad that it’s less popular and especially don’t attack people who don’t enjoy the ship, it’s so childish. Finally for definitions sake it’s misogynistic when somebody as a man sees themselves superior to women, don’t throw that word around like it’s nothing. Mari is not misogynistic from these tweets. But on TikTok I HAVE seen misogyny against mizisua more than once but of course people decide to devolve it into “Yuri is better!” like can we please be more mature about topics like this?
@@hiyoribpI’m pretty sure they had followed eachother but vivinos and qmeng had already unfollowed eachother earlier in the year but i couldn’t rlly find receipts for it it’s just rumors 😭
Also it means the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls.(women can be misogynistic too) And Misandry is the same thing but it’s towards men/boys. /lh
@@hermitfox3053 these people more to fetishizing specific gay people than actually supporting gay lol Im pretty much a fudanshi, but i do like yuri as well, literally same as yaoi, but its just girls
Okay, I just watched the whole video, and this Mari person is a whole level of hypocrisy. For someone so protective over fictional women and lesbians, she sure has no problems trashing on a real life queer woman for no reason
As an asexual person who loves gay and sapphic ships, man, why can't a lesbian just do yaoi just because?? Just because she's a lesbian doesn't mean she can't do yaoi! There are no rules for making LGBT content!
i think it’s just icky for women to watch/make yaoi content because of consent. children dont consent to being viewed in that way, and gay men dont consent to being viewed that way by women, regardless of it featuring REAL gay men. like, cartoon cp is still bad, so women watching gay cartoon you know what is also bad. sadly people are not realizing that romantic ships are okay to watch/make. (romantic love is different than “intimate” love) but yeah as a gay man fujoshis just make me uncomfortable. like why are you getting off to gay men as a woman. we dont consent to that!! its icky!!! so many girls/women have fetishized me in person because im gay. being a fujoshi to cartoon media is just a pipeline to harassing real gay men. its disgusting. and its not anti-women to not welcome women into gay adult spaces. i dont care if straight adult spaces are not safe for you, that does not make you welcome here. go away. it’s disgusting anyways trauma fueled rant over lol
@@amehiko4026 yaoi is inherently sexual. and specifically FOR women. have you never had a woman come up to you and another gay man and ask who’s the top and who’s the bottom? gush about how cute you are? and make comments on how gay intimate acts are hot? isnt that disgusting? to be treated as an object for their gratification? to be their gay best friend? what about gay adult spaces? why are there women there? i personally do NOT consent to them being there. like why are you viewing us that way? do you want to WATCH us do these things??? its gross. and yaoi made by women is just taking away queer voices. making romantic plotlines im fine with, but sexual ones are gross.
@@cottonfetti5509 you do realize a lot of your statements are also shit "normal" straight girls say right? Ofc there are some fujos who say that but most who said stayed in 2000's. Also, if we go by that, then this excludes every man who every made yaoi. Yes, yaoi was made for women but its not just for them anymore. Just like gay man read yuri and lesbians girl read yaoi
do people forget that...lesbians can be gay and like gay stuff...and gay stuff isn't all related to mxm dynamic..and its okay for them like mxm because they gay and um...
@@GLEPPPPPgay refers to all non-hetero individuals. Also A common misconception is that the f-slur is only for mlm folk when in reality, lesbians too were rolled up and burned, aka the origin of the f-slur. I would also like to state, as a bi chick dating a bi chick, Bi women get the same treatment from homophobes as lesbian women do. Any slur directed against lesbians can also be reclaimed by bi women.
@@GLEPPPPP "Gay" is like umbrella terms for both genders because it have the same meaning (male x male, female x female) basically a a word use to call sam sex couples
The kiss wasn't even supposed to be romantic, I passionately hate alien stage fans who think they know VIVINO's art in storytelling, it's supposed to feel hopeless, dramatic, despair, Ivan was saving Till because he knew that they'd die anyway...
Yes. That scene made me cry. It was sudden, beautiful, and very dramatic. They worked well on all characters, and explored mizisua just as much as ivantill; I don't understand how people can hate Qmeng and one gay pairing for "overshadowing a lesbian relationship". Especially that it was a one-sided love and tragedy.
Those types of fan see a “theory” someone made up and regurgitate it as if it’s truth/cannon and if anyone disagrees it’s the end of the world. They can’t handle when something doesn’t align with what they think so they feel the need to “educate” others
exactly! That scene filled me with immense DISGUST and dread, it wasn’t even GAY. It was WAY MORE THAN THAT. And now, with round 7, we know till does feel guilty for never acknowledging Ivan, but he STILL NEVER HAD or will HAVE FEELINGS FOR HIM. It’s a sad tale , it’s honestly very emotional, and not “fetishy” AT ALL. Ivan’S love and dedication WASNT reciprocated . edit: Oh i didnt know till does like ivan
@@penguin22penguin22 Honestly, I liked the scene specifically because of how disturbing it was, which is why I ship them. I absolutely adore fucked up ships.
Imagine shitting on a REAL LESBIAN for your pixel ship💀💀💀 I want to add the person who said Qmeng is a fujo, they were in the pjsekai fandom and have beef with everyone who like the gay ships. I swear they need proper help bcs wtaf😭😭
@@dumpling1512 well wlw are often overshadowed by mlm i can see where they're coming from but they took it so far sometimes which doesnt help anyone at all :/
calling her a “fujo gf” is not only understating her important role, but also calling her a “rotten girl”. that’s what fujioshi means. “rotten girl”. honestly just adds another bit more of absurdity to her claims
@@LesbianShenYuan i get what youre saying and i used to question why its named that way but the "fujo" title and the "rotten girl" originated from the past from when gay men were being commonly talked down upon and considered as something "disgusting" and faced (still are, but lesser amount than in the past) homophobia, girls who offered and expressed their support towards them were called "rotten girls", which is where the now title "fujoshi" originated from, despite how the title sounds with now knowing the meaning of it its not anything disrespectful, BUT the way the op who made that misinfo tweet used the word was downplaying of qmengs role which is a co-director of alnst to just vivinoses girlfriend who has no involvment in the development of the story and "forced" vivinos to add mlm, really disgusting how the said person still is staying ignorant about how disrespectful they really were being
no, "fujo" is not a derogatory term. it was initially a misogynistic term against women made by incels to make fun of them for enjoying romantic stories in media, "rotten" refers to them being unmarried and undesirable. japanese women AND queer people have long since reclaimed the term and associate with it positively. but in a western context, people still associate negativity with it and basically parrot the same talking points as the incels who once used it. the context matters here, and mari definitely meant it in the negative way.
@kuroamia The mari person even labelled people who were criticizing them (not even only fujo, but it was clear their intent is for the fujos) "brain-dead porn addicts"
Additionally, the reason straight women prefer BL/Yaoi is because the relationship dynamics are different and it guarantees being written by a woman or sometimes a gay male. This is important because a LOT of women hate straight porn. It is designed to cater to straight MALE fantasies. Not made for women. The entire porn industry is most run by men. It's so much stuff with the focus just being on a hyper large-breasted "pornified" female and you never see the man. Its just hovering dicks and a female getting pounded. SO many women hate that dynamic. ESPECIALLY women that are ONLY attracted to men. As a male attracted person, I am not interests in seeing a woman 99% of the screen time. The issue of straight porn being made specifically for men is a big reason why straight women gravitate to yaoi. It's NOT to "fetishization" gay men. This is usually a very ignorant perspective. It's almost always something to do with their orientation + sexually not being compatible with straight porn. This is the EXACT reason why lesbians like yaoi/BL. It may not match their orientation, but it lines up with their sexuality and relationship dynamics better. Are there "fujo-fetishists"? Yea, but NOT that many anymore. A fujo fetishizes the idea of being gay. Demands characters ONLY be gay (not bisexual) because they are attracted to the idea of being gay. Since gay people have become normalized in the western world, a lot of these types are disappearing. They like the idea of gay being taboo/"wrong", which adds to the fetish. Normalization removes this problem and these types are diminishing. NOW, the term "fujoshi" is often used to throw at ANY woman that looks at yaoi/BL, and this is just WRONG. It's just become a slur to insult women which specific sexualities/or orientation at this point. It is also misogynistic, because there isn't an equivalent slur for people who fetishize lesbians.
I feel like these people don’t actually follow alien stage because mizisua is literally the only ship to have a dedicated extra episode…they just want to be haters because they don’t kiss on screen Edit: especially since the ivantill "kiss" isn't romantic and is assault, and mizisua is actually canon
It's really frustrating how this discourse originally began as an important discussion on misogyny in fandoms, something that really needs more attention imo, quickly devolved into petty arguments about yuri vs yaoi and ship wars. While I fully support uplifting wlw ships that are overshadowed by mlm ones, harassing a real-life lesbian and spreading misinfo about them is definitely not the way to do so😭
Also this case really isn't about an mlm ship overshadowing a wlw ship due to misogyny. There are very much so many factors at play such as screentime, characters, dynamics, etc that factor in to why one gets more attention than the other!
@@alemonyoyo69420 Ehhh thats debatable imo. vivinos is a lesbian creator originally known for her wlw content but the only time one of her works truly becomes big is because of a side mlm couple. I love ivantill and mizisua both equally but you cant deny it is extremely concerning that an side mlm fanon ship overshadows the canon wlw couple that literally involves the main character😭 fandom misogyny definitely has something to do with it atp but whenever someone points that out people always end up blowing it out of proportion and turn it into something stupid like ship discourse or harassment of one of the creators, this situation being a prime example. Its best to just let this situation rest and just show support to vivinos and qmeng for their hard work
@@Scalixxr I think that's a little unfair. For one, as someone who has been in the Vivinos fandom for over 4 years, Alien Stage was popular before Ivantill. It only boomed due to the incredible angst of Round 6. It feels unfair to say that an mlm is overshadowing a wlw ship because Mizisua is only alive as a pair for one round in the overall series. Sua is dead and has been dead for 2 years, and both Mizi and Sua are far less interesting characters. Whereas Ivan and Till both have distinct and loud personalities, were alive (Till has competed in the most rounds we've seen so far), and have an unrequited aspect to their relationship that makes the angst-filled fandom jump for joy. I'm not doubting that *some* people out there prefer Ivantill due to misogyny, but I think that its a minority and that it's incredibly unfair to place that upon a whole group of people when the ships are so different within the narrative of Alien Stage.
Ivan and Till's relationship had been in the development since like, Round 2. Of course they were more popular once Round 6 and their arc was concluded once and for all. Sua was dead before people got more exposure to Mizi and Sua's relationship. I also think the word misogyny should not be thrown around so casually just because a mlm ship was more popular than a wlw one. Having more interest in one thing doesn't mean hating the other. I don't think it's fair to equate a lack of popularity with negativity always.
@@Scalixxrthis!!! the same thing happens in pjsk fandom, and A LOT. I litterally just watchef the alst videos without entering to the fandom bc of that, they started to recognize VIVINOS bc of her only mlm ship😓
As bisexual girl, who likes both mlm and wlw, AND mlw/wlm, I honestly stunned how some people just attack each other just because they like bl, or gl, or straight ships (Genshin fandom, I'm looking at you). It's like having a fight over what flavor of ice cream is better, chocolate or strawberry. Why can't people just enjoy what they enjoy and don't cuss at people who like something different.
The Genshin fandoms shipping is crap cause theres no actual ships. So say something like Jean and Lisa They have to cling on the fact Lisa said goodmorning to Jean and say its canon that theyre lesbians. Ive noticed if theres atleast one pairing it has a significant chance to make the shipping part a little less toxic
@@tirramasu7948 I've noticed a lot of hate towards straight pairs in genshin (except maybe Lumin/Childe). There's always some ews, when it's female character/male character, like Diluc/Jean. So many people were mad because it's not Diluc/Keya. Some genshin fans just crazy in general. Especially Scara and Xiao fans (I heard stories about guys in asia k!lling cats, because Scara a cat and girls having crush on him). The most recent event about it is situation about Russian event. In Russian pizzeria DoDo was special event about Inadzuma, and it ending early because people from asia buying merch and selling it themselves. Russian fans aren't happy with that, because in Asia events like that happen often, while in Russia it's rare, like, 2 times in a year.
@@InfinitySevens Literally no. The closest we got to any relationship besides siblings is JeanLuc but they are friends. there is possible implications for Kaveh and Al Haitham since it may follow into yaoi stereotypes
@@tirramasu7948 Oh, I wasn't talking about "hard confirmation" or anything when I mean "material". I feel like too many people caught up in that sort of thing are just setting themselves up for disappointment. I also saw a somewhat apt comparison to the powerscaling community and the obsession with "feats". EDIT: E also notably made some pretty lengthy vids on the matter with queer pairings specifically, but again it's all down to intepretation and isn't gospel. Though on a different note, I take issue with her still taking Betterhelp sponsorships despite their documented controveries and visible audience pushback at times.
Why would they be mad though? Vivinos has made many tragic lesbians content before alien stage beside the kiss scene purpose only to make till hate Ivan, so he could sacrifice himself without till grieving for him (That's probably what Ivan think) and probably for the shock value.
Though hating a gay while being into lesbian ships is hypocritical and stupid. You’re forgetting that what Ivan did is sexual assault and the fact that Till is a straight character too.
Vivinos is know for tragic lgbtq stories but only when the characters are together Till is the first confirmed straight character with a one sided relationship with Ivan. Somehow everyone skips over the fact that what Ivan did is sexual assault
@@heatherthetubby2458 oof I know that. But I think Ivan does that to make till hate him so he's not grieving. It's still assault and wrong and I think vivinos do mention that till is bi but he likes mizi more.
@@MochiKyo018 if vivios did mention that then apologies but Ivantill fans have gone so far as to full reanimate the scene to make Till kiss Ivan back to fulfill the ship
Making indie animation with such a small team is not an easy feat. qmeng does ALOT of the storyboarding and animatics. She also takes the time to make fun comics and AUs of the alien stage characters interacting. She obviously cares about the world her and vivinos created together.
Idk anything abt Alien Stage (i stopped watching VIVINOS when it came) but i saw a person calling Qmeng as *“fake lesbian who would leave Vivinos for a man”* and it’s SICKENING. Those people shouldn’t bring dvmb thing about the relationship between her and Vivinos and stop choosing fictional characters over REAL LESBIAN WOMEN. Sometimes we need to touch some grass and stay away from our technological devices for a moment.
as a lesbian myself, the argument of mlm constantly overshadowing wlw is so stupid imo i don’t give a damn if the characters are straight, gay, bi, etc. what gender they are as long as they have a good *story* how are we getting so caught up in the orientations of characters when that’s not the thing that matters most? “the gay boys are getting more attention than the lesbians and i don’t like it” people with this mindset sound ridiculous, why are you downgrading actual characters with complex emotions and lives to just their sexualities as if there existence is nothing more than a filler for a representation checkbook? treating gay characters like chocolate bars that have to be distributed equally amongst the fans who act like children is absurd
I just find it a little sad how some people will straight up remove the humanity of real people while humanizing fictional ones more. I feel so sad for how the treatment toward qmeng and vivinos over this just leads me with no words just sad and gross feelings. Adding the levels of straight up misogyny using fujo gf to degrade all of qmeng's hard work just awful especially the misogynistic origins of fujoshi as a term vs the reclaimed self-identifier and how it just misconstrues and demeans all the passion and work put into the series just is upsetting. Being someone who also subs to the patreon for the extra behind the scenes stuff and to support the series it's wild how completely distorted the actual statement by the pair over the creation took by the mari person. You don't have to dig deep to see how much love and passion and care were put into the entire series by vivinos and qmeng. It's so sad to have woken up to learn all of this. If you have to demean, degrade, and put down something/someone in order to uplift another that's just something you need to reassess. I only wish the best for qmeng and vivinos and hope they get just as much love and support tenfold of whatever this awful situation led to. It's just such a sad feeling. An extra ick just seeing it while finishing typing someone insinuating qmeng leaving vivi for a man adding the levels of biphobia as well is extra gross. People need to do better. These are real people who created a world and characters that many people have come to love. I am glad to see there were people defending the creators and seeing how wrong this stuff is but wow. I have no words. Sorry if my grammar/phrasing might be off. My two languages were combatting one another and made my English a little wonky.
What's that picture I see pop up every once in a while regarding Twitter? People will literally get mad over fictional characters and treat real ones as if they are fictional and then get mad at you for knowing the difference?
It’s sad that yuris are being underrated, but it’s not something to get mad and attack at people. I think there’s much better solution: introduce and expose more lesbian stuff into bl fans, maybe? I am pretty sure many of the bl fans will like it in no time because that’s how many yuri fans like myself started liking sapphic stories--simple exposure.
Not true - if we talk about western animation and movies (Disney and Cartoon Network, coated by Rebecca sugar) - it’s all lesbians/bisexual girls. Rn no one will allow gay representation or not allow it being on main role.
@@slne-pd8gknah, it doesnt work lol, a lot of bl fans are way too "weird", idk how to day it, but they see mlm ships as "better" than wlw. If you are exposed to bl you arr exposed to gl as well, but they choose to only see bl
PROUD VIVIMENG SUPPORTER FOR 3-4 YEARS‼️💗💗 That person probably doesn’t even actually like MiziSua, they did the same thing with pjsk guys and jumped to Alien Stage. They’re so clearly using MiziSua purely to hate on the guys without actually caring about the couple themself. Being upset that MiziSua is being overshadowed in the fandom is 100% valid, but the unnecessary hate towards the creators is appalling. QMENG did absolutely nothing to warrant this type of hate, and the false narrative being created about her is so horribly horrendous.
aside from hating on qmeng, she has straight up made stuff up about what vivinos said in paid patreon content that very few people can see (mari talked about vivinos not wanting male characters and having to be persuaded, when vivinos only said she needed help from her team while creating them, because she didn't have much experience with them). i can guarantee this is real, as a vivinos patron. it's really fucked up and it makes her excuses about not intending any harm a total bullshit.
They're actually just jealous that Qmeng is such a queen and that she has a girlfriend that is also a queen. Obviously, a bitter and loveless individual.
This happens so much in the Cookie Run, Genshin and Star Rail fandoms; people attacking MLM ships to uplift WLW ships. Never thought I’d see it happen 😔
@@hatguyfan22 Cookie Run has ships?! Also, many Hoyo fans are fools. They're fighting over ships when the company dgaf and gives everyone something to munch on. Out of all possible media to have ship wars over Hoyo just ain't it.
Also in those fandoms when mlm ships attacked ones, they got their karma. But when wlw or striaght ships are the one who started, Twitter just ignored sht. I feel bit icky everytime I see this happens😅 why cant ppl enjoy their ships w/o comparing to eachother?
@@Razor3000-u3fa hoyo fans here, ngl im just surprised theres still hate against gay people The game is literally full of homos😭 yall, its so funny when someone said "the main character aint gay" when the main character is refered to other main character's gf, also they literally call one of them "theyre just sisters"-> they kissed on the lips😭😭 this sht happens before the game is even known, hell probably not alot know this, the one who wrote this ship in the story is a woman,begins on their 2nd game
@@Razor3000-u3fa hoyo fans here, ngl im just surprised theres still hate against gay people The game is literally full of homosexuals😭 yall, its so funny when someone said "the main character aint gay" when the main character is refered to other main character's gf, also they literally call one of them "theyre just sisters"-> they kissed on the lips😭😭 this sht happens before the game is even known, hell probably not alot know this, the one who wrote this ship in the story is a woman,begins on their 2nd game
It is quite an ungoing problem with how lesbian ships are often overshadowed by gay ships, and I can understand the frustration that comes with that. Still, how is attacking people who like gay ships going to solve the problem, if anything, it just makes it worse.
@@Razor3000-u3fActually yes. Usually in shows, female characters are often overshadowed by male ones in a fandom, and female characters remain to be at the back, this also stems from misogynistic stuff. Commonly BL stories portray female characters as the unlikable one for the audience (women) to hate and love two male characters, they can be not canon or canon. So in a way the female character is always under represented in a fandom and underappreciated. I like both MLM/WLW stuff but it happens a lot and I noticed.
@@MrBackman85 A lot of BL stories have a supportive female cast, it depends. Though we're not talking about BL, we're talking about a show with both Yuri and Yaoi ships. Which one is more popular depends largely on the fandom. Some are fujoshi, others are himejoshi. Fujoshi simply tend to be more numerous so such ships often steal the show. That's all it is. In the case of Ivantill, they also have a very tragic story, more so than Mizisua since the guys never had a shot at happiness. Then came the intense scene with the kiss and well...the rest is history.
@@Razor3000-u3f I do get the appeal with Ivan x Til, but I'm usually explaining about the reason why some women don't like overshadowing them, in the owl house for example and Ramshackle, the female protagonist in a "Not written in a male harem" often is shadowed in the fandom by a male character just by their tragic backstory and ect. When a male character is actually interesting, he gets more love in the fandom as much as female characters are (in a not harem genre, but except Luz, she's not that popular in her own show ), but if it's a woman surrounded by male characters, she wasn't the spotlight nor she is popular so it's still frustrating. I might be referring to BL previously, but there's a lot of stories applicable to this. I do get the reasons why Ivantil is popular because Sua died first and we never get more MiziSua in a way, but I'm sorry, can people at least understand female characters get the least attention when it comes to stories written by queer people or by women alike? I know Himejoshi exists but still doesn't disprove that women in the fandom everywhere doesn't get that much attention, unless a man wrote her or she is in a harem genre for men.
@@Razor3000-u3f There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking BL, heck, I am a woman who frequently consumes BL stories. But there is a long running problem of people in fandoms (mostly woman, ironically), who take their love for BL ships too far and essentially end up acting misogynistic. This includes demonising the woman character for “getting in the way” of their ship. This also includes the problem of the fetishisation of gay men, where people will put gay men on a pedestal, portraying them as either perfect beings or objects of sexual gratification.
mari taking something posted behind a paywall out of context and then saying she'd only send the patreon post to mizisua fans was absolutely insane bc the post said nothing that she claimed it did. i tried talking to her at some point and she literally just doubled down on the fact that she did nothing wrong and she didn't say anything bad it was like talking to a brick wall
This Mari person has been hating on everything abt Alien Stage except for Mizisua since april 6th. Literally a day after round 6's release. And they didn't know abt Alien Stage before that. If they were an actual fan they'd probably realize our fandom talks a lot abt the latest episode bc, y'know, it's the lastest fucking episode. Back when round 5 released a whole year prior no one would shut up abt Luka e Mizi bc the episode was abt them, people barely mentioned anyone else from the cast
2:30 I just wanna add that it becomes clear that Till has a huge yet incredibly baseless crush on Mizi, and it’s clear that he’s not truly “in love”with her when you look at Sua or Ivan. Mizi even says in her relationship bio that Till doesn’t talk to her and she thinks he hates her
The biggest thing about Mari’s talking points is it comes from radfem/terf talking points. Now I don’t think Mari is one but a lot of how she words things is way too close to the radfem sun, with how she acts like vivinos is the meek cute woman who done all this WLW content but acts like Qmeng is a gender/lesbian traitor and twisting vivi arm to art of men not realizing these are all vivinos ocs and the main lead of the project. Also her not saying sorry is fucking messed up
i think the irony of it is advocating for a fictional wlw couple only to bring down a real wlw couple whilst doing so. yes there is an issue with female characters being overshadowed by male characters but i genuinely dont see it being the case in the alnst fandom. overall, all this fighting over wlw and mlm is nerve-wracking, despite our different experiences (and popularity when it comes to ships if that ever so matters) there's no point in bringing down each other when we face bigger problems together as queer people
There's always discourse like this. Once I saw people hating on lesbians who liked fictional male characters just bc they were men, even calling them "men obsessed" or not real lesbians. Damn can lesbians not have hobbies anymore?? Also lesbians who love mlm ships are definitely some of the chillest people I've met.
In Sweden and the rest of the Nordic countries, the LGBTQ+ acronym is spelled as HBTQ+. H standing of course for homosexualities. Of course Swedish is a little bit stunted when it comes to queer discourse, but I really think that having the H in place of the LG makes more sense. We're all in this together, and splitting things up unnecessarily is how we destroy each other. Some women seem to think that "lesbianism" means "anti-man", which used to be the case--in the 1920s.
This is so awful! I’m not a big Alien Stage fan not super familiar with the story or characters (I only watch the pretty animations and amazing songs) and I don’t know much about the creators either But this is just so sad….
Even crazier when this mari has peopel agreeing with her and they just keep harassing qmeng for that reason alone People just cant sit still and not ruin everything dont they?
This is why we can’t have nice things in life 😔 and one of the main reasons why I avoid twitter or social media in general for that matter (I just feel bad for the creators though and they don’t deserve such hate for creating masterpieces)
if these specific wlw shippers just made their own content instead of crying about the lack of it their problem would be solved by now ToT i have a TON of rarepairs that have always been overshadowed by mlm ships, but who cares? those people are having fun with their thing doesn't stop me from enjoying mine. i learned to draw /specifically/ because i knew no one else was going to do it for me. this is why i never bring up my sexuality in these online spaces, some people can be so judgmental over strangers they don't even know. im just sad wlw shippers get this rep because of a vocal minority, they're just making it more unlikely for people take interest in what we like by making us seem like bullies
i do agree that we should bring more attention to wlw ships but that shouldn’t be at the cost of dragging other random ships that aren’t wlw down lol people are crazy
Something that makes this even CRAZIER is the fact that Vivinos and Qmeng have made plenty of other mvs before Alien Stage, several revolving around couples... And almost all are yuri couples, with one hetero couple and one where a hookup between two boys was implied. So to summarize, Ivantill is also the first ever yaoi ship on Vivino's channel, and this person is acting like it's all that matters to Qmeng because of a kiss- (THIS IS ALL FROM MY MEMORY, SO TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, BUT I'VE BEEN A VIVINOS FAN FOR A WHILE)
I personally don't think ivantill is her first mlm couple in her channel. She does like one time she post once a (implied) mlm content cherry bitch club (even tho is direct by qmeng but still-) and some of her art dump of her ocs that are clearly mlm but she never really post it alot
I personally don't think ivantill is her first mlm couple in her channel. She does like one time she post once a (implied) mlm content cherry bitch club (even tho is direct by qmeng but still-) and some of her art dump of her ocs that are clearly mlm but she never really post it alot
after qmeng got attacked, the community did a big support movement of #thankyouvivimeng where people drew vivinos and qmeng’s icons together and posted stuff in support of qmeng. I thought that was kinda sweet but it was still super messed up how fast people were quick to attack qmeng
I fear what these people would do if they knew Vivinos made Cherry Bxxch club. Like this isn’t her first time making mlm content, she makes BOTH doomed yuri AND yaoi
Tbh im so confused why Yuri Fandom who Hates people like Yaoi content? Like literally both gay its just a male gender 😭 There was a tweet of someone getting very angry about ivantill content getting more popular, like bruh yoy know you can just make your fanart to put more yuri out there 😅😅😅 POOR QMEING! WKWNQKQNQ THIS IS SOOO AAAAAHHHHH
I think the issue is that in fandom spaces MLM ships over WLW ships , and while both are good and neither should be put down , it is frustrating to see.
From what I've seen there's various reasons for why yuri fans hate yaoi fans. For female yuri fans, a lot of them see female yaoi fans as fetishizers since most yaoi content is made by women and often sexualizes gay guys, features abusive relationship dynamics treated as attractive, and the female authors normally don't have much understanding of actual gay relationships. A lot of them are also frustrated that yaoi tends to be more abundant than yuri in fandom spaces. For male yuri fans, a lot of them see yaoi fans as gross because they think yaoi is gross because they're insecure straight dudes who get grossed out at seeing two dudes kiss. A lot of it also comes from stuff girls like just being trashed on a lot more and overly criticized, like how people acted towards Twilight and other popular romance novels targeted towards girls/women and call shoujo manga/anime trash.
istg these like saviour complex people think their so right about everything that they start thinking backwards and hurt the people who they think they know so much about (in this case the queer community). raging over yuri and yaoi is the most chronically online shit i've seen in a minute. also kinda unrelated but i'm also bisexual and these days i always see a lot of artists shipping only gay ships or only straight ships so alien stage having ALL was such a breath of fresh air (even though it's so angsty/toxic and half of them die
im only like 4 mins in but i dont get it - do they want mizi to kiss suas dead body? 💀 also to me just bcs they werent shown kissing doesnt mean it couldnt have happened but tbh it doesnt really matter if they did? the ivan and till kiss occurred more so bcs of ivans personality. like, both sua and ivan sacrificed themselves, however i feel sua was trying to have a more passive role whilst ivan wanted the recognition he never got from till (which is diff from sua bcs her and mizi had mutual feelings) - also this is just a small detail but i saw someone mention that in round six prior to ivan approaching till till had actually stopped singing, his lips not moving at all at his lines. edit: i never saw qmeng as a fujoshi just because she drew and made content that involved mlm because that makes no sense. i love qmeng for their art and ive seen their works and claiming that she is a fujoshi because of that is just reaching. also, its really unfortunate that she has been watered down to vivinos gf. This was something they work hard on, like, if you look at vivinos community tab you can see the immense amount of art qmeng makes for all the characters too. To not only be robbed of something you worked hard on but be basically told youre someone who fetishises mlm relationships must suck. I feel like if you view things in such a shallow way you just failed to understand the characters, their emotions, motives, struggles and such. Ivan and Sua albeit both sharing feelings for someone did not have the same experience. I feel like the community tab post of Ivan literally talking about he thought they were the same only to realise that was not the case (Due to mizi actually reciprocating sua's affection) showed that difference and this was also intentional because they didnt want to just have copy and paste dynamics but just with a diff gender
I honestly hate the fact that its always man vs woman not man and woman. I don't understand why the yaoi and yuri fans are so different? GL fans hate BL and vice versa. Even in Instagram reels on bls I have seen comments normalising not liking gls and saying stuffs like they don't chemistry between women or they wanna see 2 hot guys
im mostly incredibly disappointed by the people that allowed this discourse to spread as far as it did 😢 why was that tweet so popular in the first place? how could people believe that misinformation so easily? How come people feed into it SOOO MUCH that it led to qmeng going inactive?!?!! it disgusted me really that they care more about fictional lesbians (that they wouldn’t have w/out qmeng+vivi btw) over the TWO REAL LESBIANS that are breaking boundaries 💔
Is mostly children the ones spreading this kind of hurtful thought process too. They see someone yelling with enough indignation and they go "huh, she must be right I can't understand half the words she's saying so she must know what she's talking about" and then we got an entire cult of people parroting the most retrograde christian fundamentalist rhetoric of why women ruin everything, but in their mind they're actually doing the community a big favor for bashing the icky women and gay fakers out of LGBTQ spaces. Is baffling honestly.
That's what I'm talking about. Instead of this person harassing the co-creator, why doesn't they create fan content for their favorite ship? This is how it works, I found out Alien Stage from Ivan and Till's edits. And then I went to watch the videos and discovered Mizi and Sua, and cry once again with another couple's angst. And I spent a good time liking and retweeting fan arts, talking about theories, looking for fanfics and sharing, that's how fandom works. Trying to embarrass someone's ship cuz is bl, it only makes people invest more in what they like. I've seen something similar where someone complains that there aren't enough wlw fanfics and demands more, not with a sense of humor, because that's what we do in femslash, joking about that we live on crumbs to support each other to do more fanwork, but really complaining and like... fanfic writer is not like netflix where we are clients and our series get canceled, fanfic writers do for hobby. There's no way to demand anything unless you pay a commission, then you become a client. Otherwise no, and if you want to see more wlw in our fandom, you have to start making more wlw content in the fandom, That's what I do, that's what everyone does. (And I do BG and BL too, many people don't make content for just one type of couple, even because they ship multiple couples, there's that too). Anyone who has rareship in life knows this. I think that person is just very complacent. Like many people are so comfortable watching series only in english, but they don't value GL from other places, like Thai GL is dominating the market and has subtitles! We didn't have all that and now it's back to back. I gave up on Netflix and things like that, and I went to support independent directors, there are even indie GL series in Chinese! Chinese! Everyone knows the censorship they suffer and yet there are several on RUclips. And in South Korea, GL manhwas are growing. Honestly, as a BL and GL fan, I couldn't help but notice how many sapphic creators love romance, women love romance and because it's seen as a "girly thing", It is frowned upon, so it became something that if women don't do it for themselves, who will? No one. So they started doing it and dominated the genre, it doesn't matter if the couple is bg, bl, gl, queerlove, they are there, and GL has only been growing over the years. Having a BL couple doesn't mean they will always dominate the fandom, there are many, and I mean MANY, aquilian couples in sapphic works and often they don't become popular like that. Tamem de gushi has, for example. It really is a about of whether the ship appeals to people, sometimes a secondary couple attracts more fandom, It even happens that a non-canon attracts a lot, sapphics know, 'cuz there are many popular sapphic ships that are not even canon or central to the work. This person didn't make any sense, they doesn't even know how fandom works.
Himejos will LITERALLY do ANYTHING BUT pick up a pen and write/draw their favourite yuri ships. All I hear is them always complaining about how there is a severe lack of yuri ship works compared to yaoi ship works and it’s like…..maybe if you picked up a pen instead we wouldn’t be here
I've been wondering if it could be linked to there being more canon lesbian couples in mainstream media (especially for younger audiences) in recent years causing himejos to get used to just getting their content while fujos are still mostly creating their stuff from crumbs in the cannon narratives
@@blairfujin In mainstream spaces, definitely. However I think if you look at BL and GL specifically, I think there’s more BL than there is GL. And usually people who’re into lesbian ships most of them are naturally into GL and get pissed when GL is not in the majority like their mainstream yuri content.
did mari forget that the kiss wasnt even romantic it was ivan UNCONSENTUALLY KISSING TILL BECAUSE HE WAS ABT TO SACRIFICE HIS LIFE FOR HIM. TILL DIDNT LIKE IT. HE WAS ACTIVELY TRYING TO PUSH IVAN AWAY FROM THE KISS BECAUSE HES. NOT. GAY.😭😭😭😭 god some alien stage fans make me so mad. ANYWAYS ALNST ON TOP🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I think this situation also have something to have with the whole... things about ships going in western part of ALNST fandom. People are attacked for reipairs, non-canons, even if Vivimeng said that you can ship the characters as you like, they are bisexual. I myself saw how for a long time people attacked the Twitter of the artist for drawing a rareship of lukamizi and all of this. The fact that people literally call lesbians "lesbofobic" for drawing anime pictures that don't feature lesbians is complete nonsense. A lesbian, a queer, may not even draw queer characters but that doesn't make them queer, especially if they are the CREATORS of the content. I used a translator, but I hope my meaning is clear, and I agree with most of what you say ❤
It also looks like "Mari" has a some kind of parasocial relationship with VIVINIOS, getting into her relationship like that. The fact that people do this at all is absolutely disgusting.
I hate that people just hate on everything (especially since it seems like the more drawing-related it is the more people hate) because I would love to post my stuff online, more than I do currently, but I'm scared that I'll get hate. And besides that I just don't have the motivation in the first place to create stuff knowing people might just hate me into the ground for it.
I spit out my drink wtf why are they mad over a gay ship??? Hello?? "girls kiss other girls, but when I kiss my homies goodnight, society." ahh situation
Sadly it's always happen when projects gets attention and popularity. Like with creator Yaeklore, who's making songs with their characters, and some people from TikTok from "OMG I love this song!" turned to "I hate this Yaeklore sh!t so much".
@@dashaash5903 oh yes I remember this, thankfully alien stage and the creators in general have a stronger fandom so I don’t ever expect a huge switch up like that, I mean recently it’s mainly the few loud mouths that are turning against it
Bring attention to the fact that wlw ships are often buried in favor of a mlm is something that should be addressed. BUT that has nothing to do with the content itself. For fuck sake- Hazbin Hotels protagonist has a girlfriend who they actively show being in love and still people are more obsessed with ships that aren’t even developed. (Such as Radioapple and Radiostatic) It has nothing to do with the creator! They have no control over what fandoms attach themselves too.
twitter should start charging for tweeting😭 No but seriously this drama is so unnecessary just enjoy the show and let others enjoy it too…saying weird stuff about real people is beyond disrespectful…some people need to grow up💀
I read the original post and I absolutely do not recall Mari ever mentioned Qmeng being CODIRECTOR and just said fujo gf. Then girl really had the nerve to say people are twisting her words??? Also I just checked her newest posts and she just does not admit fault at all and kept acting like she didnt spread misinformation against Qmeng, blaming the fandom instead of being like “oh yeah i fucked up sorry” Not even colleen ballinger’s PR team can help you at this point because wtf
plus, I can't stand watching VIVINOS work getting misunderstood, clearly these people don't understand and haven't watched their previous works. Hate these people so much
Im straight, and love is love to me. I don't care if the love is hetero, gay, or lesbian. I just want the depiction of the romance in stories to be believable. Im tired of shoe horned BS. This is silly unnecessary drama, smh
First off didn't even know VIVINOS had a GF. 100% knew she was gay I mean look at her content, but GF is news to me. Second, I'm so tired of people coming out of the woodwork to shit on indie animators for the hell of it. Like the moment they smell a hint of success from small studios, they awaken like an ancient curse to spew vitriol at anyone that will listen about this show they "totally" watched more than 5 seconds of.
The kiss was supposed to be uncomfortable and forceful, it was meant as a distraction and a way for ivans score to start dropping. They didnt judt put the kiss in cuz “omg gay men 🤭“ ITS LITERALLY FOR A REASON??? We can gave wlw and mlm guys istg
I’m a queer man who reads both BL and GL, it’s okay to enjoy both, it doesn’t actually effect your sexuality. Unless your closeted or something. In some cases, it helps people realize their sexuality and gender identity actually. But besides that, a lesbian can read bl and a gay man can read gl and that doesn’t change who they are. Pretty simple.
It makes sense that people would be talking more about Ivan x Till. I feel like there's just been more characterization for them. It was a whole build-up knowing they'd go against each other for months and months. 😢 Plus, this was the most recent round. 🤦♀️
when i first saw their post i thought it was just about how women get overshadowed a lot in fandom spaces which i think is important to bring up, but then they started bringing vivimeng (especially qmeng) into it and turning it into some sort of yaoi vs yuri war like hello?!? i just cannot understand why they were trying to defend fictional lesbians by bringing down real life lesbians where is the logic 😭😭😭 i’m so glad i’ve seen so much support going towards vivimeng after this though, they deserve all the love in the world !!
This is why I hate twitter lmfao. They can't just let people have fun without blowing a fuse about it. I swear, it's like they're allergic to happiness.
I saw this thread on twitter originally, idk if the screenshots were grabbed of the additional posts but Mari was claiming Vivinos said this on patreon and that Mari didnt want to leak pateon content. The problem is I just checked Vivinos patreon and her most recent post was 15 hrs ago as of today the evening of 9/27/24 with the one before that being august 27th while Mari made her post on 9/21/24. So like Mari's supposed timeline is already screwed up why make a twitter post gloating about something said almost a month ago?
Alien stage has a fandom now?!?!?!?! I mostly know her because of pink bitch club (watched all her videos related to pink bitch club) i still remember seeing alien stage early days when it was just a thing that only vivinos fans know
Some ppl forget that lesbians do make aloooot of yaoi ,infact ,I tend to see alot of gay girls and nonbinary and Trans men and women loving yaoi than yuri ,it's just preference like??? Vivinos whole Chanel focused on yuri bc she likes it! Qmeng's Chanel focused on yaoi bc she likes it ! I knew this stupid argument will gonna happen sooner or later ,but making Qmeng apologies for something she and viv worked and planned on is so mean like why ?
do people just not consider that maybe ivantill could be more popular bc more people relate to them...? specifically ivan- ofc there are some people who only like it bc its gay, but a lot of people have extremely valid reasons for liking the ship and also.... its a fictional ship... between fictional characters... if it bothers you so much, then create your own series focusing only on lesbian characters or lesbian couples.
i love alnst and this whole situation is so stupid ofc it happened on twitter some people there do not know how to shut up😭 its like mari has this weird fictional idea of qmeng being controlling towards vivinos like stfu these are real people we’re talking about not fictional characters……
![Lets redesign Marinette!! [this took 3 years to make]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cgXLx4jklZU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Small correction is that Qmeng didn't remove their affiliation to alien stage and they scrubbed their account before this situation! They just made a website that would link you to their affiliation however their arts on the account shown are still deleted, Vivinos still no longer follows qmeng, and Qmeng's description still has no mention of Vivinos or Alien Stage. (Which is unlikely even has any relation to this situation)
Also yall it’s not misogynistic to have a preference! Some of y’all have the same mindset of the person who harassed qmeng. Ivan and Till being fandom popular can easily be explained for various reasons that stems from relevancy, the kiss, the fact that Sua has been dead for over a year and round 7 with Luka who people are wondering about Ivan AND Mizi(in addition Hyuna). Saying a gay ship overshadowing a lesbian ship is just bringing more unnecessary conflict to a story that should go beyond labels and that IS beyond labels. Alien Stage is a story not just “gay” and caring more about the ships that other people like than the actual story is just baffling to me.
My argument is just that the character dynamic should triumph the fact that they’re gay/lesbian, because in hindsight we’re all human. If you like a ship, show you like it! Don’t artificially bring it up because you feel bad that it’s less popular and especially don’t attack people who don’t enjoy the ship, it’s so childish.
Finally for definitions sake it’s misogynistic when somebody as a man sees themselves superior to women, don’t throw that word around like it’s nothing. Mari is not misogynistic from these tweets. But on TikTok I HAVE seen misogyny against mizisua more than once but of course people decide to devolve it into “Yuri is better!” like can we please be more mature about topics like this?
If im not mistaken they had never followed each other on first place!!
@@hiyoribpI’m pretty sure they had followed eachother but vivinos and qmeng had already unfollowed eachother earlier in the year but i couldn’t rlly find receipts for it it’s just rumors 😭
If you want me to explain further I gladly will.
@@flemter💀
Also it means the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls.(women can be misogynistic too)
And Misandry is the same thing but it’s towards men/boys. /lh
Why can’t there be Yuri AND yaoi? Why can’t the two coexist???😭
Fr like people can enjoy BOTH no one needs to take sides or something 😭
because fujoshis
Exactly
If we have gay men then there‘s more women left for yuri stuff and vice versa. Those two sides attacking each other just doesn‘t make sense lol
@@hermitfox3053 these people more to fetishizing specific gay people than actually supporting gay lol
Im pretty much a fudanshi, but i do like yuri as well, literally same as yaoi, but its just girls
Okay, I just watched the whole video, and this Mari person is a whole level of hypocrisy. For someone so protective over fictional women and lesbians, she sure has no problems trashing on a real life queer woman for no reason
Literally and her being homophobic towards gay men multiple times
Classic twitter user
FORREAL
The Average Twitter Experience
the massive red flag is that sge protects fictional character but not the real person
As an asexual person who loves gay and sapphic ships, man, why can't a lesbian just do yaoi just because?? Just because she's a lesbian doesn't mean she can't do yaoi! There are no rules for making LGBT content!
Right like I’m aro, I see art as art. ESPECIALLY in conservative Korea we should not be hating queer artists for making lgbtq media.
i think it’s just icky for women to watch/make yaoi content because of consent. children dont consent to being viewed in that way, and gay men dont consent to being viewed that way by women, regardless of it featuring REAL gay men. like, cartoon cp is still bad, so women watching gay cartoon you know what is also bad. sadly people are not realizing that romantic ships are okay to watch/make. (romantic love is different than “intimate” love) but yeah as a gay man fujoshis just make me uncomfortable. like why are you getting off to gay men as a woman. we dont consent to that!! its icky!!! so many girls/women have fetishized me in person because im gay. being a fujoshi to cartoon media is just a pipeline to harassing real gay men. its disgusting. and its not anti-women to not welcome women into gay adult spaces. i dont care if straight adult spaces are not safe for you, that does not make you welcome here. go away. it’s disgusting
anyways trauma fueled rant over lol
@@cottonfetti5509 as a gay man and a fudanshi.. what are you on about..
@@amehiko4026 yaoi is inherently sexual. and specifically FOR women. have you never had a woman come up to you and another gay man and ask who’s the top and who’s the bottom? gush about how cute you are? and make comments on how gay intimate acts are hot? isnt that disgusting? to be treated as an object for their gratification? to be their gay best friend? what about gay adult spaces? why are there women there? i personally do NOT consent to them being there. like why are you viewing us that way? do you want to WATCH us do these things??? its gross. and yaoi made by women is just taking away queer voices. making romantic plotlines im fine with, but sexual ones are gross.
@@cottonfetti5509 you do realize a lot of your statements are also shit "normal" straight girls say right? Ofc there are some fujos who say that but most who said stayed in 2000's. Also, if we go by that, then this excludes every man who every made yaoi. Yes, yaoi was made for women but its not just for them anymore. Just like gay man read yuri and lesbians girl read yaoi
do people forget that...lesbians can be gay and like gay stuff...and gay stuff isn't all related to mxm dynamic..and its okay for them like mxm because they gay and um...
lesbians can be gay? im a little lost... how would they be gay if theyre lebians?
@@GLEPPPPPgay refers to all non-hetero individuals.
Also
A common misconception is that the f-slur is only for mlm folk when in reality, lesbians too were rolled up and burned, aka the origin of the f-slur.
I would also like to state, as a bi chick dating a bi chick,
Bi women get the same treatment from homophobes as lesbian women do. Any slur directed against lesbians can also be reclaimed by bi women.
@@tikimillie damn I didn't know abt the origin of the f slur that's just sad
@@igagyatt As long as they don’t objectify it.
@@GLEPPPPP "Gay" is like umbrella terms for both genders because it have the same meaning (male x male, female x female) basically a a word use to call sam sex couples
The kiss wasn't even supposed to be romantic, I passionately hate alien stage fans who think they know VIVINO's art in storytelling, it's supposed to feel hopeless, dramatic, despair, Ivan was saving Till because he knew that they'd die anyway...
Yes. That scene made me cry. It was sudden, beautiful, and very dramatic. They worked well on all characters, and explored mizisua just as much as ivantill; I don't understand how people can hate Qmeng and one gay pairing for "overshadowing a lesbian relationship". Especially that it was a one-sided love and tragedy.
Those types of fan see a “theory” someone made up and regurgitate it as if it’s truth/cannon and if anyone disagrees it’s the end of the world. They can’t handle when something doesn’t align with what they think so they feel the need to “educate” others
@@ca678.4 OH MY GOD EXACTLY this is the entirety of Twitter and Tiktok
exactly! That scene filled me with immense DISGUST and dread, it wasn’t even GAY. It was WAY MORE THAN THAT.
And now, with round 7, we know till does feel guilty for never acknowledging Ivan, but he STILL NEVER HAD or will HAVE FEELINGS FOR HIM.
It’s a sad tale , it’s honestly very emotional, and not “fetishy” AT ALL. Ivan’S love and dedication WASNT reciprocated .
edit: Oh i didnt know till does like ivan
@@penguin22penguin22 Honestly, I liked the scene specifically because of how disturbing it was, which is why I ship them. I absolutely adore fucked up ships.
Vivinos get behind me..I'll protect you 🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺
Protect vivinos and qmeng at all cost from the horrid people know as Twitter users
alpha....🐺
Lmao
Cough lemme be in role...
AWOOO
RAAAGGHHHH VIVINOS AND QMENG GET BEHIND US 🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺😈😈😈
Very sigma comment, I like it 👍
Imagine shitting on a REAL LESBIAN for your pixel ship💀💀💀
I want to add the person who said Qmeng is a fujo, they were in the pjsekai fandom and have beef with everyone who like the gay ships. I swear they need proper help bcs wtaf😭😭
Sekai is one of the few fandom where the wlw ships are just as popular as the mlm. What were they even complaining about.😭
@@dumpling1512 well wlw are often overshadowed by mlm i can see where they're coming from but they took it so far sometimes which doesnt help anyone at all :/
so... they just hate gay ships?? ok, good to know. Anyway, gay ships are cool, and they're stupid for not respecting people for enjoying gay ships.
Ohhh they're homophobic to gay men, that makes sense
Oh lord, they need theraphy
calling her a “fujo gf” is not only understating her important role, but also calling her a “rotten girl”. that’s what fujioshi means. “rotten girl”. honestly just adds another bit more of absurdity to her claims
@@LesbianShenYuan i get what youre saying and i used to question why its named that way but the "fujo" title and the "rotten girl" originated from the past from when gay men were being commonly talked down upon and considered as something "disgusting" and faced (still are, but lesser amount than in the past) homophobia, girls who offered and expressed their support towards them were called "rotten girls", which is where the now title "fujoshi" originated from, despite how the title sounds with now knowing the meaning of it its not anything disrespectful, BUT the way the op who made that misinfo tweet used the word was downplaying of qmengs role which is a co-director of alnst to just vivinoses girlfriend who has no involvment in the development of the story and "forced" vivinos to add mlm, really disgusting how the said person still is staying ignorant about how disrespectful they really were being
no, "fujo" is not a derogatory term. it was initially a misogynistic term against women made by incels to make fun of them for enjoying romantic stories in media, "rotten" refers to them being unmarried and undesirable. japanese women AND queer people have long since reclaimed the term and associate with it positively. but in a western context, people still associate negativity with it and basically parrot the same talking points as the incels who once used it. the context matters here, and mari definitely meant it in the negative way.
@kuroamia The mari person even labelled people who were criticizing them (not even only fujo, but it was clear their intent is for the fujos) "brain-dead porn addicts"
@@svnscythewasn’t it cuz women were fetishing gay men and making them uncomfortable
@@tillywilly4524ironic because yuris have smuts too.
the mari person kept on yapping about “protecting real lesbian women” when she got outed but attacked a real lesbian woman 💀
The hippopotamucracy is strong with this one 🙏😭
ISTG THIS IS WHY I DONT GO ON TWITER 🔥🔥
ME FRRR
HELL YEAH THIS WHY MY COUNTRY BANNED IT🔥🔥🔥🔥W MOMENT
Bsd pfp spotted
@@Coco_kitty_cl LMAO
@@cccc4i good. And keep it that way. Trust me.
im a lesbian who enjoys both lesbian and gay ships...people need to calm the fuck down.
as another lesbian who enjoys both lesbian and gay ships I agree
Bick dig enjoyer here, i also like the lesbian people and fellow gayge
I'm a bisexual who enjoys both wlw and mlm ships, why can't we just have gay lesbian solidarity
Frrr finally finding my people 😭
Samee, they need to chill fr
Bruh, i had a woman friend on discord who's a lesbian and she loves to draw gay and straight stuff 😭 these ppl need to calm their asses down
Additionally, the reason straight women prefer BL/Yaoi is because the relationship dynamics are different and it guarantees being written by a woman or sometimes a gay male.
This is important because a LOT of women hate straight porn. It is designed to cater to straight MALE fantasies. Not made for women. The entire porn industry is most run by men. It's so much stuff with the focus just being on a hyper large-breasted "pornified" female and you never see the man. Its just hovering dicks and a female getting pounded. SO many women hate that dynamic. ESPECIALLY women that are ONLY attracted to men. As a male attracted person, I am not interests in seeing a woman 99% of the screen time.
The issue of straight porn being made specifically for men is a big reason why straight women gravitate to yaoi. It's NOT to "fetishization" gay men. This is usually a very ignorant perspective. It's almost always something to do with their orientation + sexually not being compatible with straight porn. This is the EXACT reason why lesbians like yaoi/BL. It may not match their orientation, but it lines up with their sexuality and relationship dynamics better.
Are there "fujo-fetishists"? Yea, but NOT that many anymore. A fujo fetishizes the idea of being gay. Demands characters ONLY be gay (not bisexual) because they are attracted to the idea of being gay. Since gay people have become normalized in the western world, a lot of these types are disappearing. They like the idea of gay being taboo/"wrong", which adds to the fetish. Normalization removes this problem and these types are diminishing.
NOW, the term "fujoshi" is often used to throw at ANY woman that looks at yaoi/BL, and this is just WRONG. It's just become a slur to insult women which specific sexualities/or orientation at this point. It is also misogynistic, because there isn't an equivalent slur for people who fetishize lesbians.
Its kinda crazy how someone is hating on a real life lesbian relationship for a fictional lesbian relationship 🤧
Soumds like fetishization for me idk
this shit was so serious my friend who was defending qmeng got r#pe and death threats from ppl supporting maris point
What the hell im so sorry they had to deal with that oh my lord 😓 bless you and them against these crazy people
That's terrible that they know r#pe is a serious threat and they were holding it against them because of vulnerability
But they’re against misogyny 🤪
I feel like these people don’t actually follow alien stage because mizisua is literally the only ship to have a dedicated extra episode…they just want to be haters because they don’t kiss on screen
Edit: especially since the ivantill "kiss" isn't romantic and is assault, and mizisua is actually canon
It's really frustrating how this discourse originally began as an important discussion on misogyny in fandoms, something that really needs more attention imo, quickly devolved into petty arguments about yuri vs yaoi and ship wars. While I fully support uplifting wlw ships that are overshadowed by mlm ones, harassing a real-life lesbian and spreading misinfo about them is definitely not the way to do so😭
Also this case really isn't about an mlm ship overshadowing a wlw ship due to misogyny. There are very much so many factors at play such as screentime, characters, dynamics, etc that factor in to why one gets more attention than the other!
@@alemonyoyo69420 Ehhh thats debatable imo. vivinos is a lesbian creator originally known for her wlw content but the only time one of her works truly becomes big is because of a side mlm couple. I love ivantill and mizisua both equally but you cant deny it is extremely concerning that an side mlm fanon ship overshadows the canon wlw couple that literally involves the main character😭 fandom misogyny definitely has something to do with it atp but whenever someone points that out people always end up blowing it out of proportion and turn it into something stupid like ship discourse or harassment of one of the creators, this situation being a prime example. Its best to just let this situation rest and just show support to vivinos and qmeng for their hard work
@@Scalixxr I think that's a little unfair. For one, as someone who has been in the Vivinos fandom for over 4 years, Alien Stage was popular before Ivantill. It only boomed due to the incredible angst of Round 6. It feels unfair to say that an mlm is overshadowing a wlw ship because Mizisua is only alive as a pair for one round in the overall series. Sua is dead and has been dead for 2 years, and both Mizi and Sua are far less interesting characters. Whereas Ivan and Till both have distinct and loud personalities, were alive (Till has competed in the most rounds we've seen so far), and have an unrequited aspect to their relationship that makes the angst-filled fandom jump for joy. I'm not doubting that *some* people out there prefer Ivantill due to misogyny, but I think that its a minority and that it's incredibly unfair to place that upon a whole group of people when the ships are so different within the narrative of Alien Stage.
Ivan and Till's relationship had been in the development since like, Round 2. Of course they were more popular once Round 6 and their arc was concluded once and for all. Sua was dead before people got more exposure to Mizi and Sua's relationship. I also think the word misogyny should not be thrown around so casually just because a mlm ship was more popular than a wlw one.
Having more interest in one thing doesn't mean hating the other. I don't think it's fair to equate a lack of popularity with negativity always.
@@Scalixxrthis!!! the same thing happens in pjsk fandom, and A LOT. I litterally just watchef the alst videos without entering to the fandom bc of that, they started to recognize VIVINOS bc of her only mlm ship😓
gay people on twitter when they go to a gay club and see people doing ket instead of discussing whether or not yaoi is bad
mood
As bisexual girl, who likes both mlm and wlw, AND mlw/wlm, I honestly stunned how some people just attack each other just because they like bl, or gl, or straight ships (Genshin fandom, I'm looking at you).
It's like having a fight over what flavor of ice cream is better, chocolate or strawberry. Why can't people just enjoy what they enjoy and don't cuss at people who like something different.
The Genshin fandoms shipping is crap cause theres no actual ships.
So say something like Jean and Lisa
They have to cling on the fact Lisa said goodmorning to Jean and say its canon that theyre lesbians.
Ive noticed if theres atleast one pairing it has a significant chance to make the shipping part a little less toxic
@@tirramasu7948 I've noticed a lot of hate towards straight pairs in genshin (except maybe Lumin/Childe). There's always some ews, when it's female character/male character, like Diluc/Jean. So many people were mad because it's not Diluc/Keya.
Some genshin fans just crazy in general. Especially Scara and Xiao fans (I heard stories about guys in asia k!lling cats, because Scara a cat and girls having crush on him). The most recent event about it is situation about Russian event. In Russian pizzeria DoDo was special event about Inadzuma, and it ending early because people from asia buying merch and selling it themselves. Russian fans aren't happy with that, because in Asia events like that happen often, while in Russia it's rare, like, 2 times in a year.
@@tirramasu7948 Isn't there way more material to work with?
@@InfinitySevens Literally no.
The closest we got to any relationship besides siblings is JeanLuc but they are friends.
there is possible implications for Kaveh and Al Haitham since it may follow into yaoi stereotypes
@@tirramasu7948 Oh, I wasn't talking about "hard confirmation" or anything when I mean "material". I feel like too many people caught up in that sort of thing are just setting themselves up for disappointment. I also saw a somewhat apt comparison to the powerscaling community and the obsession with "feats".
EDIT: E also notably made some pretty lengthy vids on the matter with queer pairings specifically, but again it's all down to intepretation and isn't gospel. Though on a different note, I take issue with her still taking Betterhelp sponsorships despite their documented controveries and visible audience pushback at times.
Why would they be mad though? Vivinos has made many tragic lesbians content before alien stage beside the kiss scene purpose only to make till hate Ivan, so he could sacrifice himself without till grieving for him (That's probably what Ivan think) and probably for the shock value.
Though hating a gay while being into lesbian ships is hypocritical and stupid. You’re forgetting that what Ivan did is sexual assault and the fact that Till is a straight character too.
Vivinos is know for tragic lgbtq stories but only when the characters are together Till is the first confirmed straight character with a one sided relationship with Ivan. Somehow everyone skips over the fact that what Ivan did is sexual assault
@@heatherthetubby2458 oof I know that. But I think Ivan does that to make till hate him so he's not grieving. It's still assault and wrong and I think vivinos do mention that till is bi but he likes mizi more.
@@MochiKyo018 if vivios did mention that then apologies but Ivantill fans have gone so far as to full reanimate the scene to make Till kiss Ivan back to fulfill the ship
@@heatherthetubby2458 I do think this ship is still toxic and not really fan of it too
Making indie animation with such a small team is not an easy feat. qmeng does ALOT of the storyboarding and animatics. She also takes the time to make fun comics and AUs of the alien stage characters interacting. She obviously cares about the world her and vivinos created together.
Idk anything abt Alien Stage (i stopped watching VIVINOS when it came) but i saw a person calling Qmeng as *“fake lesbian who would leave Vivinos for a man”* and it’s SICKENING. Those people shouldn’t bring dvmb thing about the relationship between her and Vivinos and stop choosing fictional characters over REAL LESBIAN WOMEN. Sometimes we need to touch some grass and stay away from our technological devices for a moment.
Nah that person on Twitter is tripping wtf
as a lesbian myself, the argument of mlm constantly overshadowing wlw is so stupid imo
i don’t give a damn if the characters are straight, gay, bi, etc. what gender they are
as long as they have a good *story*
how are we getting so caught up in the orientations of characters when that’s not the thing that matters most?
“the gay boys are getting more attention than the lesbians and i don’t like it” people with this mindset sound ridiculous, why are you downgrading actual characters with complex emotions and lives to just their sexualities as if there existence is nothing more than a filler for a representation checkbook?
treating gay characters like chocolate bars that have to be distributed equally amongst the fans who act like children is absurd
Yapping about how lesbian is underrated while attacking an actual lesbian is a crazy work
crazy bc most of vivinos previous works have been wlw
I just find it a little sad how some people will straight up remove the humanity of real people while humanizing fictional ones more. I feel so sad for how the treatment toward qmeng and vivinos over this just leads me with no words just sad and gross feelings. Adding the levels of straight up misogyny using fujo gf to degrade all of qmeng's hard work just awful especially the misogynistic origins of fujoshi as a term vs the reclaimed self-identifier and how it just misconstrues and demeans all the passion and work put into the series just is upsetting. Being someone who also subs to the patreon for the extra behind the scenes stuff and to support the series it's wild how completely distorted the actual statement by the pair over the creation took by the mari person. You don't have to dig deep to see how much love and passion and care were put into the entire series by vivinos and qmeng. It's so sad to have woken up to learn all of this. If you have to demean, degrade, and put down something/someone in order to uplift another that's just something you need to reassess. I only wish the best for qmeng and vivinos and hope they get just as much love and support tenfold of whatever this awful situation led to. It's just such a sad feeling.
An extra ick just seeing it while finishing typing someone insinuating qmeng leaving vivi for a man adding the levels of biphobia as well is extra gross. People need to do better. These are real people who created a world and characters that many people have come to love. I am glad to see there were people defending the creators and seeing how wrong this stuff is but wow. I have no words.
Sorry if my grammar/phrasing might be off. My two languages were combatting one another and made my English a little wonky.
What's that picture I see pop up every once in a while regarding Twitter? People will literally get mad over fictional characters and treat real ones as if they are fictional and then get mad at you for knowing the difference?
I will say that it is much too often that lesbian ships get overtaken by gay ships, I understand the anxiety but it does not warrant an attack.
It’s sad that yuris are being underrated, but it’s not something to get mad and attack at people.
I think there’s much better solution: introduce and expose more lesbian stuff into bl fans, maybe? I am pretty sure many of the bl fans will like it in no time because that’s how many yuri fans like myself started liking sapphic stories--simple exposure.
it's stupid too because basically some video before alstg is yuri
@@slne-pd8gk as somone who is not into either would say just being exposed to bl also made you like it then?
Not true - if we talk about western animation and movies (Disney and Cartoon Network, coated by Rebecca sugar) - it’s all lesbians/bisexual girls. Rn no one will allow gay representation or not allow it being on main role.
@@slne-pd8gknah, it doesnt work lol, a lot of bl fans are way too "weird", idk how to day it, but they see mlm ships as "better" than wlw. If you are exposed to bl you arr exposed to gl as well, but they choose to only see bl
PROUD VIVIMENG SUPPORTER FOR 3-4 YEARS‼️💗💗 That person probably doesn’t even actually like MiziSua, they did the same thing with pjsk guys and jumped to Alien Stage. They’re so clearly using MiziSua purely to hate on the guys without actually caring about the couple themself. Being upset that MiziSua is being overshadowed in the fandom is 100% valid, but the unnecessary hate towards the creators is appalling. QMENG did absolutely nothing to warrant this type of hate, and the false narrative being created about her is so horribly horrendous.
aside from hating on qmeng, she has straight up made stuff up about what vivinos said in paid patreon content that very few people can see (mari talked about vivinos not wanting male characters and having to be persuaded, when vivinos only said she needed help from her team while creating them, because she didn't have much experience with them). i can guarantee this is real, as a vivinos patron. it's really fucked up and it makes her excuses about not intending any harm a total bullshit.
A true Yuri fan respects yaoi like a true yaoi fan respects Yuri
They're actually just jealous that Qmeng is such a queen and that she has a girlfriend that is also a queen. Obviously, a bitter and loveless individual.
This happens so much in the Cookie Run, Genshin and Star Rail fandoms; people attacking MLM ships to uplift WLW ships. Never thought I’d see it happen 😔
@@hatguyfan22 Cookie Run has ships?! Also, many Hoyo fans are fools. They're fighting over ships when the company dgaf and gives everyone something to munch on. Out of all possible media to have ship wars over Hoyo just ain't it.
Also in those fandoms when mlm ships attacked ones, they got their karma. But when wlw or striaght ships are the one who started, Twitter just ignored sht. I feel bit icky everytime I see this happens😅 why cant ppl enjoy their ships w/o comparing to eachother?
@@Razor3000-u3fa hoyo fans here, ngl im just surprised theres still hate against gay people
The game is literally full of homos😭 yall, its so funny when someone said "the main character aint gay" when the main character is refered to other main character's gf, also they literally call one of them "theyre just sisters"-> they kissed on the lips😭😭 this sht happens before the game is even known, hell probably not alot know this, the one who wrote this ship in the story is a woman,begins on their 2nd game
@@Razor3000-u3fa hoyo fans here, ngl im just surprised theres still hate against gay people
The game is literally full of homosexuals😭 yall, its so funny when someone said "the main character aint gay" when the main character is refered to other main character's gf, also they literally call one of them "theyre just sisters"-> they kissed on the lips😭😭 this sht happens before the game is even known, hell probably not alot know this, the one who wrote this ship in the story is a woman,begins on their 2nd game
People have no common sense
It is quite an ungoing problem with how lesbian ships are often overshadowed by gay ships, and I can understand the frustration that comes with that. Still, how is attacking people who like gay ships going to solve the problem, if anything, it just makes it worse.
Why would it be a problem that Yaoi is more popular?
@@Razor3000-u3fActually yes. Usually in shows, female characters are often overshadowed by male ones in a fandom, and female characters remain to be at the back, this also stems from misogynistic stuff. Commonly BL stories portray female characters as the unlikable one for the audience (women) to hate and love two male characters, they can be not canon or canon. So in a way the female character is always under represented in a fandom and underappreciated. I like both MLM/WLW stuff but it happens a lot and I noticed.
@@MrBackman85 A lot of BL stories have a supportive female cast, it depends. Though we're not talking about BL, we're talking about a show with both Yuri and Yaoi ships. Which one is more popular depends largely on the fandom.
Some are fujoshi, others are himejoshi. Fujoshi simply tend to be more numerous so such ships often steal the show. That's all it is.
In the case of Ivantill, they also have a very tragic story, more so than Mizisua since the guys never had a shot at happiness. Then came the intense scene with the kiss and well...the rest is history.
@@Razor3000-u3f I do get the appeal with Ivan x Til, but I'm usually explaining about the reason why some women don't like overshadowing them, in the owl house for example and Ramshackle, the female protagonist in a "Not written in a male harem" often is shadowed in the fandom by a male character just by their tragic backstory and ect. When a male character is actually interesting, he gets more love in the fandom as much as female characters are (in a not harem genre, but except Luz, she's not that popular in her own show ), but if it's a woman surrounded by male characters, she wasn't the spotlight nor she is popular so it's still frustrating.
I might be referring to BL previously, but there's a lot of stories applicable to this.
I do get the reasons why Ivantil is popular because Sua died first and we never get more MiziSua in a way, but I'm sorry, can people at least understand female characters get the least attention when it comes to stories written by queer people or by women alike?
I know Himejoshi exists but still doesn't disprove that women in the fandom everywhere doesn't get that much attention, unless a man wrote her or she is in a harem genre for men.
@@Razor3000-u3f There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking BL, heck, I am a woman who frequently consumes BL stories.
But there is a long running problem of people in fandoms (mostly woman, ironically), who take their love for BL ships too far and essentially end up acting misogynistic. This includes demonising the woman character for “getting in the way” of their ship.
This also includes the problem of the fetishisation of gay men, where people will put gay men on a pedestal, portraying them as either perfect beings or objects of sexual gratification.
mari taking something posted behind a paywall out of context and then saying she'd only send the patreon post to mizisua fans was absolutely insane bc the post said nothing that she claimed it did. i tried talking to her at some point and she literally just doubled down on the fact that she did nothing wrong and she didn't say anything bad it was like talking to a brick wall
also off topic but this is how i learned i've been saying ivan and sua's names wrong
This Mari person has been hating on everything abt Alien Stage except for Mizisua since april 6th. Literally a day after round 6's release. And they didn't know abt Alien Stage before that. If they were an actual fan they'd probably realize our fandom talks a lot abt the latest episode bc, y'know, it's the lastest fucking episode. Back when round 5 released a whole year prior no one would shut up abt Luka e Mizi bc the episode was abt them, people barely mentioned anyone else from the cast
Yeah, they've also been hating on qmeng if you look through their tweets. They're deranged as fuck
2:30 I just wanna add that it becomes clear that Till has a huge yet incredibly baseless crush on Mizi, and it’s clear that he’s not truly “in love”with her when you look at Sua or Ivan. Mizi even says in her relationship bio that Till doesn’t talk to her and she thinks he hates her
Mari just loves hearing themself talk at this point because wtf
This is what happens when you give narcissists a platform.
dude...so what if im a bi woman??? im not allowed to enjoy ships of both genders or ill get called a fujo?? also, IT DOESNT MATTER IVAN IS DEAD NOWWW
With how common biphobia is, I wouldn't even be surprised
Even if you were straight. Don't give attention to their opinion.
NOPE). Feminists will be disappointed
since when has there been bi representation???
Man, I hate twitter. Hope Qmeng and Vivinos are okay 😕
The biggest thing about Mari’s talking points is it comes from radfem/terf talking points. Now I don’t think Mari is one but a lot of how she words things is way too close to the radfem sun, with how she acts like vivinos is the meek cute woman who done all this WLW content but acts like Qmeng is a gender/lesbian traitor and twisting vivi arm to art of men not realizing these are all vivinos ocs and the main lead of the project. Also her not saying sorry is fucking messed up
We got my favourite characters MIZZI, SUAH TILL AND EVON🗣️
ivan is pronounced like that though (i think)
LMAOOOO
Heck! What is wrong with having both Yuri and Yaoi in one fandom is that illegal?!😭
i think the irony of it is advocating for a fictional wlw couple only to bring down a real wlw couple whilst doing so. yes there is an issue with female characters being overshadowed by male characters but i genuinely dont see it being the case in the alnst fandom.
overall, all this fighting over wlw and mlm is nerve-wracking, despite our different experiences (and popularity when it comes to ships if that ever so matters) there's no
point in bringing down each other when we face bigger problems together as queer people
There's always discourse like this. Once I saw people hating on lesbians who liked fictional male characters just bc they were men, even calling them "men obsessed" or not real lesbians. Damn can lesbians not have hobbies anymore?? Also lesbians who love mlm ships are definitely some of the chillest people I've met.
On behalf of the alphabet mafia, this ain't us, we have real problems to worry about
I agree. As a transgender man ftm and a gay man. I'm with you on this .
In Sweden and the rest of the Nordic countries, the LGBTQ+ acronym is spelled as HBTQ+. H standing of course for homosexualities. Of course Swedish is a little bit stunted when it comes to queer discourse, but I really think that having the H in place of the LG makes more sense. We're all in this together, and splitting things up unnecessarily is how we destroy each other. Some women seem to think that "lesbianism" means "anti-man", which used to be the case--in the 1920s.
lesbian is first in lgbtq+ because of the work sapphics and lesbians did during the AIDS crisis.
Ah yes, Twitter. The only place where fictional people matter more than real people
Why are MLM couples and WLW couples constantly at each other’s throats?😭😭🙏‼️
frl
I genuinely appreciate both I don’t understand The war
I don't understand that you're fighting with the same homosexuality, not against heterosexuality
not even couple...The "fans"
This is so awful! I’m not a big Alien Stage fan not super familiar with the story or characters (I only watch the pretty animations and amazing songs) and I don’t know much about the creators either But this is just so sad….
One time I saw people attacking a lesbian for doing a genderbend of a saphic ship
You know, if lesbiaphobia never ends... is their fault
Even crazier when this mari has peopel agreeing with her and they just keep harassing qmeng for that reason alone
People just cant sit still and not ruin everything dont they?
This is why we can’t have nice things in life 😔 and one of the main reasons why I avoid twitter or social media in general for that matter (I just feel bad for the creators though and they don’t deserve such hate for creating masterpieces)
they have a history of bullying pjsk players who ship mlm ships in the game sadly
i heard it on twitter
if these specific wlw shippers just made their own content instead of crying about the lack of it their problem would be solved by now ToT i have a TON of rarepairs that have always been overshadowed by mlm ships, but who cares? those people are having fun with their thing doesn't stop me from enjoying mine. i learned to draw /specifically/ because i knew no one else was going to do it for me. this is why i never bring up my sexuality in these online spaces, some people can be so judgmental over strangers they don't even know. im just sad wlw shippers get this rep because of a vocal minority, they're just making it more unlikely for people take interest in what we like by making us seem like bullies
i do agree that we should bring more attention to wlw ships but that shouldn’t be at the cost of dragging other random ships that aren’t wlw down lol people are crazy
SO GLAD I DELETED TWITTER ‼️‼️‼️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Something that makes this even CRAZIER is the fact that Vivinos and Qmeng have made plenty of other mvs before Alien Stage, several revolving around couples... And almost all are yuri couples, with one hetero couple and one where a hookup between two boys was implied.
So to summarize, Ivantill is also the first ever yaoi ship on Vivino's channel, and this person is acting like it's all that matters to Qmeng because of a kiss-
(THIS IS ALL FROM MY MEMORY, SO TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, BUT I'VE BEEN A VIVINOS FAN FOR A WHILE)
I personally don't think ivantill is her first mlm couple in her channel. She does like one time she post once a (implied) mlm content cherry bitch club (even tho is direct by qmeng but still-) and some of her art dump of her ocs that are clearly mlm but she never really post it alot
I personally don't think ivantill is her first mlm couple in her channel. She does like one time she post once a (implied) mlm content cherry bitch club (even tho is direct by qmeng but still-) and some of her art dump of her ocs that are clearly mlm but she never really post it alot
after qmeng got attacked, the community did a big support movement of #thankyouvivimeng where people drew vivinos and qmeng’s icons together and posted stuff in support of qmeng. I thought that was kinda sweet but it was still super messed up how fast people were quick to attack qmeng
I fear what these people would do if they knew Vivinos made Cherry Bxxch club. Like this isn’t her first time making mlm content, she makes BOTH doomed yuri AND yaoi
Tbh im so confused why Yuri Fandom who Hates people like Yaoi content? Like literally both gay its just a male gender 😭
There was a tweet of someone getting very angry about ivantill content getting more popular, like bruh yoy know you can just make your fanart to put more yuri out there 😅😅😅
POOR QMEING! WKWNQKQNQ THIS IS SOOO AAAAAHHHHH
i love yuri more but i also like yaoi-
I think the issue is that in fandom spaces MLM ships over WLW ships , and while both are good and neither should be put down , it is frustrating to see.
From what I've seen there's various reasons for why yuri fans hate yaoi fans.
For female yuri fans, a lot of them see female yaoi fans as fetishizers since most yaoi content is made by women and often sexualizes gay guys, features abusive relationship dynamics treated as attractive, and the female authors normally don't have much understanding of actual gay relationships. A lot of them are also frustrated that yaoi tends to be more abundant than yuri in fandom spaces.
For male yuri fans, a lot of them see yaoi fans as gross because they think yaoi is gross because they're insecure straight dudes who get grossed out at seeing two dudes kiss. A lot of it also comes from stuff girls like just being trashed on a lot more and overly criticized, like how people acted towards Twilight and other popular romance novels targeted towards girls/women and call shoujo manga/anime trash.
Recently it's been super normalized to hate on Yaoi and gay ships because it "fetishizes mlm", that is part of it
@@ultimateidiot2344ah, so they decide to bring back the "yaoi guys in anime are so gross, and yuri girls are pure, untainted (lillies)"
THIS IS SO SAD ☹️ QMENG IS SUCH AN AMAZING ANIMATOR ☹️☹️ (KAZ, MY POOKS, I SEE THEM)
istg these like saviour complex people think their so right about everything that they start thinking backwards and hurt the people who they think they know so much about (in this case the queer community). raging over yuri and yaoi is the most chronically online shit i've seen in a minute. also kinda unrelated but i'm also bisexual and these days i always see a lot of artists shipping only gay ships or only straight ships so alien stage having ALL was such a breath of fresh air (even though it's so angsty/toxic and half of them die
im only like 4 mins in but i dont get it - do they want mizi to kiss suas dead body? 💀 also to me just bcs they werent shown kissing doesnt mean it couldnt have happened but tbh it doesnt really matter if they did? the ivan and till kiss occurred more so bcs of ivans personality. like, both sua and ivan sacrificed themselves, however i feel sua was trying to have a more passive role whilst ivan wanted the recognition he never got from till (which is diff from sua bcs her and mizi had mutual feelings) - also this is just a small detail but i saw someone mention that in round six prior to ivan approaching till till had actually stopped singing, his lips not moving at all at his lines.
edit: i never saw qmeng as a fujoshi just because she drew and made content that involved mlm because that makes no sense. i love qmeng for their art and ive seen their works and claiming that she is a fujoshi because of that is just reaching. also, its really unfortunate that she has been watered down to vivinos gf. This was something they work hard on, like, if you look at vivinos community tab you can see the immense amount of art qmeng makes for all the characters too. To not only be robbed of something you worked hard on but be basically told youre someone who fetishises mlm relationships must suck. I feel like if you view things in such a shallow way you just failed to understand the characters, their emotions, motives, struggles and such. Ivan and Sua albeit both sharing feelings for someone did not have the same experience. I feel like the community tab post of Ivan literally talking about he thought they were the same only to realise that was not the case (Due to mizi actually reciprocating sua's affection) showed that difference and this was also intentional because they didnt want to just have copy and paste dynamics but just with a diff gender
I honestly hate the fact that its always man vs woman not man and woman. I don't understand why the yaoi and yuri fans are so different? GL fans hate BL and vice versa. Even in Instagram reels on bls I have seen comments normalising not liking gls and saying stuffs like they don't chemistry between women or they wanna see 2 hot guys
I can relate to wanting to see 2 hot guys, but show these BL fans Sailor Uranus and Neptune and their minds will explode.
@@ClubPuguin their minds already got explode with 4minutes
im mostly incredibly disappointed by the people that allowed this discourse to spread as far as it did 😢 why was that tweet so popular in the first place? how could people believe that misinformation so easily? How come people feed into it SOOO MUCH that it led to qmeng going inactive?!?!! it disgusted me really that they care more about fictional lesbians (that they wouldn’t have w/out qmeng+vivi btw) over the TWO REAL LESBIANS that are breaking boundaries 💔
Is mostly children the ones spreading this kind of hurtful thought process too. They see someone yelling with enough indignation and they go "huh, she must be right I can't understand half the words she's saying so she must know what she's talking about" and then we got an entire cult of people parroting the most retrograde christian fundamentalist rhetoric of why women ruin everything, but in their mind they're actually doing the community a big favor for bashing the icky women and gay fakers out of LGBTQ spaces.
Is baffling honestly.
That's what I'm talking about. Instead of this person harassing the co-creator, why doesn't they create fan content for their favorite ship? This is how it works, I found out Alien Stage from Ivan and Till's edits.
And then I went to watch the videos and discovered Mizi and Sua, and cry once again with another couple's angst. And I spent a good time liking and retweeting fan arts, talking about theories, looking for fanfics and sharing, that's how fandom works. Trying to embarrass someone's ship cuz is bl, it only makes people invest more in what they like.
I've seen something similar where someone complains that there aren't enough wlw fanfics and demands more, not with a sense of humor, because that's what we do in femslash, joking about that we live on crumbs to support each other to do more fanwork, but really complaining and like... fanfic writer is not like netflix where we are clients and our series get canceled, fanfic writers do for hobby. There's no way to demand anything unless you pay a commission, then you become a client. Otherwise no, and if you want to see more wlw in our fandom, you have to start making more wlw content in the fandom, That's what I do, that's what everyone does. (And I do BG and BL too, many people don't make content for just one type of couple, even because they ship multiple couples, there's that too). Anyone who has rareship in life knows this. I think that person is just very complacent.
Like many people are so comfortable watching series only in english, but they don't value GL from other places, like Thai GL is dominating the market and has subtitles! We didn't have all that and now it's back to back. I gave up on Netflix and things like that, and I went to support independent directors, there are even indie GL series in Chinese! Chinese! Everyone knows the censorship they suffer and yet there are several on RUclips.
And in South Korea, GL manhwas are growing. Honestly, as a BL and GL fan, I couldn't help but notice how many sapphic creators love romance, women love romance and because it's seen as a "girly thing", It is frowned upon, so it became something that if women don't do it for themselves, who will? No one. So they started doing it and dominated the genre, it doesn't matter if the couple is bg, bl, gl, queerlove, they are there, and GL has only been growing over the years.
Having a BL couple doesn't mean they will always dominate the fandom, there are many, and I mean MANY, aquilian couples in sapphic works and often they don't become popular like that. Tamem de gushi has, for example.
It really is a about of whether the ship appeals to people, sometimes a secondary couple attracts more fandom, It even happens that a non-canon attracts a lot, sapphics know, 'cuz there are many popular sapphic ships that are not even canon or central to the work.
This person didn't make any sense, they doesn't even know how fandom works.
WELL SAID
PREACH
true. also got any recommendations on some good thai GLs?
@@rpras6067 of course! Blank: The Series
GAP: The Serie
The Secret of Us
23.5
The Loyal Pin (same actress from GAP)
Love Senior
@@rpras6067 Gap the series
Blank the series
The secret of us
23.5
Reverse 4 you
Himejos will LITERALLY do ANYTHING BUT pick up a pen and write/draw their favourite yuri ships. All I hear is them always complaining about how there is a severe lack of yuri ship works compared to yaoi ship works and it’s like…..maybe if you picked up a pen instead we wouldn’t be here
I've been wondering if it could be linked to there being more canon lesbian couples in mainstream media (especially for younger audiences) in recent years causing himejos to get used to just getting their content while fujos are still mostly creating their stuff from crumbs in the cannon narratives
@@blairfujin In mainstream spaces, definitely. However I think if you look at BL and GL specifically, I think there’s more BL than there is GL. And usually people who’re into lesbian ships most of them are naturally into GL and get pissed when GL is not in the majority like their mainstream yuri content.
its a lot easier to just yap than draw if imma be honest😭
@@pole8740 lmaoooo appreciate the honesty
did mari forget that the kiss wasnt even romantic it was ivan UNCONSENTUALLY KISSING TILL BECAUSE HE WAS ABT TO SACRIFICE HIS LIFE FOR HIM. TILL DIDNT LIKE IT. HE WAS ACTIVELY TRYING TO PUSH IVAN AWAY FROM THE KISS BECAUSE HES. NOT. GAY.😭😭😭😭 god some alien stage fans make me so mad. ANYWAYS ALNST ON TOP🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I think this situation also have something to have with the whole... things about ships going in western part of ALNST fandom.
People are attacked for reipairs, non-canons, even if Vivimeng said that you can ship the characters as you like, they are bisexual. I myself saw how for a long time people attacked the Twitter of the artist for drawing a rareship of lukamizi and all of this.
The fact that people literally call lesbians "lesbofobic" for drawing anime pictures that don't feature lesbians is complete nonsense. A lesbian, a queer, may not even draw queer characters but that doesn't make them queer, especially if they are the CREATORS of the content.
I used a translator, but I hope my meaning is clear, and I agree with most of what you say ❤
It also looks like "Mari" has a some kind of parasocial relationship with VIVINIOS, getting into her relationship like that.
The fact that people do this at all is absolutely disgusting.
when i'm in the most chronically online person ever competition and my opponent is twitter user... who's also in the pjsk fandom
I hate that people just hate on everything (especially since it seems like the more drawing-related it is the more people hate) because I would love to post my stuff online, more than I do currently, but I'm scared that I'll get hate.
And besides that I just don't have the motivation in the first place to create stuff knowing people might just hate me into the ground for it.
I spit out my drink wtf why are they mad over a gay ship??? Hello??
"girls kiss other girls, but when I kiss my homies goodnight, society." ahh situation
WOAH THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING ME…I CANT BELIEVE A FANDOM WITH SUCH A CREATIVE FANBASE HAS COME TO THIS, THE CREATORS DESERVE BETTER 💔
Sadly it's always happen when projects gets attention and popularity. Like with creator Yaeklore, who's making songs with their characters, and some people from TikTok from "OMG I love this song!" turned to "I hate this Yaeklore sh!t so much".
@@dashaash5903 oh yes I remember this, thankfully alien stage and the creators in general have a stronger fandom so I don’t ever expect a huge switch up like that, I mean recently it’s mainly the few loud mouths that are turning against it
Bring attention to the fact that wlw ships are often buried in favor of a mlm is something that should be addressed. BUT that has nothing to do with the content itself. For fuck sake- Hazbin Hotels protagonist has a girlfriend who they actively show being in love and still people are more obsessed with ships that aren’t even developed. (Such as Radioapple and Radiostatic) It has nothing to do with the creator! They have no control over what fandoms attach themselves too.
Are you kidding me? There's that who's angry because of lesbian does some gay art?
*What the hell is their problem?!*
twitter should start charging for tweeting😭
No but seriously this drama is so unnecessary just enjoy the show and let others enjoy it too…saying weird stuff about real people is beyond disrespectful…some people need to grow up💀
didn't understand "too woke" until twitter... apparently pixel sapphics are more important than real queer women. wow
I read the original post and I absolutely do not recall Mari ever mentioned Qmeng being CODIRECTOR and just said fujo gf. Then girl really had the nerve to say people are twisting her words??? Also I just checked her newest posts and she just does not admit fault at all and kept acting like she didnt spread misinformation against Qmeng, blaming the fandom instead of being like “oh yeah i fucked up sorry”
Not even colleen ballinger’s PR team can help you at this point because wtf
Bro alien stage have gay,lesbian and straight ships
like WHAT ARE YOU FIGHTING ABOU?????
plus, I can't stand watching VIVINOS work getting misunderstood, clearly these people don't understand and haven't watched their previous works. Hate these people so much
"fujo gf" ??? is that how they see qmeng ?? someone who has assisted vivinos in her projects for a very long time ??
Dude I'm lesbian and i love both w|w, m|m, and w|m so everyone needs to come the fuck down and let people enjoy their hobby! 😭
Im straight, and love is love to me. I don't care if the love is hetero, gay, or lesbian. I just want the depiction of the romance in stories to be believable. Im tired of shoe horned BS. This is silly unnecessary drama, smh
I literally thought it was good that the series isn’t just all girl love or all boy love, it’s not that common. mlm and wlw don’t cancel eachother out
First off didn't even know VIVINOS had a GF. 100% knew she was gay I mean look at her content, but GF is news to me. Second, I'm so tired of people coming out of the woodwork to shit on indie animators for the hell of it. Like the moment they smell a hint of success from small studios, they awaken like an ancient curse to spew vitriol at anyone that will listen about this show they "totally" watched more than 5 seconds of.
People just need to go outside goddam, this is such a non issue
I had know idea this had been going on within the community. I dont get how you can argue and create so much conflict about something like this.
The kiss was supposed to be uncomfortable and forceful, it was meant as a distraction and a way for ivans score to start dropping. They didnt judt put the kiss in cuz “omg gay men 🤭“ ITS LITERALLY FOR A REASON??? We can gave wlw and mlm guys istg
I’m a queer man who reads both BL and GL, it’s okay to enjoy both, it doesn’t actually effect your sexuality.
Unless your closeted or something. In some cases, it helps people realize their sexuality and gender identity actually.
But besides that, a lesbian can read bl and a gay man can read gl and that doesn’t change who they are. Pretty simple.
It makes sense that people would be talking more about Ivan x Till. I feel like there's just been more characterization for them. It was a whole build-up knowing they'd go against each other for months and months. 😢
Plus, this was the most recent round. 🤦♀️
when i first saw their post i thought it was just about how women get overshadowed a lot in fandom spaces which i think is important to bring up, but then they started bringing vivimeng (especially qmeng) into it and turning it into some sort of yaoi vs yuri war like hello?!? i just cannot understand why they were trying to defend fictional lesbians by bringing down real life lesbians where is the logic 😭😭😭 i’m so glad i’ve seen so much support going towards vivimeng after this though, they deserve all the love in the world !!
This is why I hate twitter lmfao. They can't just let people have fun without blowing a fuse about it. I swear, it's like they're allergic to happiness.
thats stupid vivinos makes gay content ofc their going to make more gay couples i love that quality 😭 and their art style and story telling ofc lol
I saw this thread on twitter originally, idk if the screenshots were grabbed of the additional posts but Mari was claiming Vivinos said this on patreon and that Mari didnt want to leak pateon content.
The problem is I just checked Vivinos patreon and her most recent post was 15 hrs ago as of today the evening of 9/27/24 with the one before that being august 27th while Mari made her post on 9/21/24. So like Mari's supposed timeline is already screwed up why make a twitter post gloating about something said almost a month ago?
Alien stage has a fandom now?!?!?!?! I mostly know her because of pink bitch club (watched all her videos related to pink bitch club) i still remember seeing alien stage early days when it was just a thing that only vivinos fans know
Some ppl forget that lesbians do make aloooot of yaoi ,infact ,I tend to see alot of gay girls and nonbinary and Trans men and women loving yaoi than yuri ,it's just preference like??? Vivinos whole Chanel focused on yuri bc she likes it! Qmeng's Chanel focused on yaoi bc she likes it ! I knew this stupid argument will gonna happen sooner or later ,but making Qmeng apologies for something she and viv worked and planned on is so mean like why ?
do people just not consider that maybe ivantill could be more popular bc more people relate to them...? specifically ivan- ofc there are some people who only like it bc its gay, but a lot of people have extremely valid reasons for liking the ship and also.... its a fictional ship... between fictional characters... if it bothers you so much, then create your own series focusing only on lesbian characters or lesbian couples.
i love alnst and this whole situation is so stupid ofc it happened on twitter some people there do not know how to shut up😭 its like mari has this weird fictional idea of qmeng being controlling towards vivinos like stfu these are real people we’re talking about not fictional characters……
At this point, they just be hating to hate. This is why we can’t have nice things, people like this ruin the fun for everyone.