Putnam Exam | 2010: A2

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  • Опубликовано: 24 янв 2025

Комментарии • 233

  • @rogerlie4176
    @rogerlie4176 4 года назад +612

    It's one of those questions where you immediately know the answer but you have to come up with a way to prove it. Great video!

    • @doofynetgraouw
      @doofynetgraouw 4 года назад +69

      Well i guess we immediately know that linear functions are part of the solutions, but do we know for sure there are no other solutions? I guess that's the tricky part :)

    • @sakshamgarg8531
      @sakshamgarg8531 4 года назад +11

      lol exacty. linear functions were the first thing that came to my mind after reading the problem.

    • @NStripleseven
      @NStripleseven 4 года назад +10

      You do? I didn't. Still a good video.

    • @NStripleseven
      @NStripleseven 4 года назад +3

      You do? I didn't. Still a good video.

    • @jaimeduncan6167
      @jaimeduncan6167 4 года назад +14

      Yes, exactly the same happened to me. I was like: Clearly is a linear function and it's easy to show that a linear function is a solution, now show that it's the only one.

  • @1llum1nate
    @1llum1nate 4 года назад +211

    Technically, we should also check that all the linear functions satisfy the equation, since not all of the transformations are reversible here.

    • @jaimeduncan6167
      @jaimeduncan6167 4 года назад +5

      I work the other way around, first show that a linear function (any) satisfy the question, then show that only a linear function will do.

    • @PythonPlusPlus
      @PythonPlusPlus 4 года назад +11

      Once we got to f’(x) = c, we have already proven that all linear functions satisfy the equation. If we integrated f’(x) = c with respect to x, we will get: f(x) = cx + k, which is the general equation for all linear equations.

    • @OMGclueless
      @OMGclueless 4 года назад +15

      ​@@PythonPlusPlus Technically we've only proved that linear functions satisfy the equation for n = 1 and n = 2. I think we need one more step to show that any linear function satisfies the equation for all n which is straightforwards by plugging f(x) = cx + k, f'(x) = c into the original equation and simplifying.

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 4 года назад +3

      @@OMGclueless this equation is the same as saying when does the tangent equal the secant line right since what we have in the right hand side of the equation is in fact the average rate of change as x goes from x to x plus n..

    • @lennartoorts6591
      @lennartoorts6591 4 года назад +1

      @@leif1075 that's what I thought :)) I think u can do this in 4 lines using mean value theorem

  • @stevenwilson5556
    @stevenwilson5556 4 года назад +9

    It has been awhile since I got my degree in math and I really, really enjoy your videos and it has helped me refresh my love for mathematics.

  • @DavesMathVideos
    @DavesMathVideos 4 года назад +22

    Hello, I remember a Russian professor I had years ago mentioning a question quite similar to this one being asked in oral exams during the Soviet times. The answer of course, was rather simple based on intuition, but it was explaining it to your interlocutor which would have been the more difficult part.

    • @MyOneFiftiethOfADollar
      @MyOneFiftiethOfADollar Год назад

      Right!, nothing like two interlocutors who demand precision and clarity in their dialogue.

  • @thomasniessen9131
    @thomasniessen9131 4 года назад +161

    Strictly speaking: The proof is incomplete. At the end of the video it is shown that linear functions are the only possible solutions. The easy part of verifying that indeed all of them are solutions is missing.

    • @WilliamLimao
      @WilliamLimao 4 года назад +3

      Exactly.

    • @ThaSingularity
      @ThaSingularity 4 года назад +8

      Thank you, I was thinking that what he did was demonstrate that only lines can possibly satisfy the equation for all n, since only lines do for n=1,2. And like you said, it's really easy to verify that any line c*x+d does indeed satisfy the equation.

    • @factsverse9957
      @factsverse9957 4 года назад +4

      Lol 9/10 for Michael 😂

    • @spinachstealer
      @spinachstealer 4 года назад

      With my luck, if submitted this incomplete proof, I'd get a 2/10. :/

    • @olau5478
      @olau5478 3 года назад

      @@ThaSingularity how do you verify that then?

  • @technoguyx
    @technoguyx 4 года назад +28

    Should've seen that solution coming... Really nice exposition.

  • @constipatedlecher
    @constipatedlecher 4 года назад +19

    This is easier than any putnam problem I've ever seen...

  • @wilderuhl3450
    @wilderuhl3450 4 года назад +46

    No fancy squares or what have you, just “alright we’re done”

  • @scar6073
    @scar6073 4 года назад +2

    I find these solutions extremely satisfying for some reason

  • @natepolidoro4565
    @natepolidoro4565 Год назад

    I remember this is one of the first MP videos I saw, and it got me into competition problems. I just did the 2023 Putnam, and it was great.

  • @sabyasachinayak24
    @sabyasachinayak24 4 года назад +5

    So the question is - which function has its mean value in the interval [x,x+n] equal to its derivative at x, for all real x and integer n. So by the mean value theorem, there's a c in [x,x+n] with f'(c)=f'(x), for all x. Since we can shift x by any real value, the only possibility is f'(x) = constant for all x. That is, f(x) = ax+b.

    • @maxime_weill
      @maxime_weill 4 года назад

      Can you explain? I dont understand how you get f' constant

    • @sabyasachinayak24
      @sabyasachinayak24 4 года назад

      @@maxime_weill LHS is the slope at x, RHS is the average slope in [x,x+n]. If they're equal in general, by the mean value theorem, the function can not be either concave or convex anywhere. So it must be linear everywhere.

    • @jaimeduncan6167
      @jaimeduncan6167 4 года назад +1

      This is an interesting approach.

    • @Charliethephysicist
      @Charliethephysicist Год назад

      @@sabyasachinayak24 This is a non siquitor and thus false. How do you derive the non-concavity and non-convexity from the mean value theorem?

  • @m.a.4794
    @m.a.4794 4 года назад +26

    Very simple! The question is saying that: What is the function where the slope at a specific point (derivative) is exactly equal at all times to the slope of the line that connects between the same point and another point in the function? Of course the only function that satisfies this condition is the linear function. A curved function would never satisfy the condition because the line that connects two different points in the function would intersect the function and its slope would never be the same as the slope of one point of them.

    • @maxime_weill
      @maxime_weill 4 года назад +4

      You didn't take into account that n is a natural number.

    • @m.a.4794
      @m.a.4794 4 года назад +1

      @@maxime_weill
      Actually for "n" being a natural number is just a special case from the general case where "n" is a real number, but in anyway that wouldn't change anything.

    • @maxime_weill
      @maxime_weill 4 года назад +1

      @M Sami But you're making the question look easier than it is. You're saying the question is stating that the slope at a point x is equal to the slope of any chords ( line going throught 2 points of the graph). And that's wrong.

    • @m.a.4794
      @m.a.4794 4 года назад +1

      @Sthaman Sinha
      Exactly!

    • @OMGclueless
      @OMGclueless 4 года назад +4

      @Sthaman Sinha It's not that simple. The integer restriction makes things more complicated. For example f(x) = {x if x mod 1 < 0.5, -x if x mod 1 >= 0.5} satisfies the equation, except that it's not differentiable. n being a natural number *does* matter because in theory there can be more solutions when n is a natural number than when n is a real number and the question asks for *all* solutions. Somehow your proof must show that all these other solutions are non-differentiable.

  • @adalbertofelipe
    @adalbertofelipe 4 года назад +2

    This channel deserve more and more subscribers!!

  • @bernardoamaral5743
    @bernardoamaral5743 4 года назад +5

    These problems are saving my month

  • @GhostyOcean
    @GhostyOcean 4 года назад +5

    I conjectured the correct solution at the beginning, but I had no thoughts on how to prove it. Your method makes sense, thank you!

  • @EMI94100
    @EMI94100 4 года назад +3

    You can also show f''(x) = 0 everywhere:
    It is easy to show that
    a) f' is again differentiable
    b) The second derivative is f''(x) = f'(x+1) - f'(x) = f(x+2) - 2f(x+1) + f(x)
    c) f(x+2) = f(x) + 2f'(x) = f(x) + 2(f(x+1) - f(x))
    Combining these shows f''(x) = 0.

  • @user_2793
    @user_2793 4 года назад +5

    We can also solve it this way :
    Let a,n € N
    Consider
    nf'(x+a) = f((x+a)+n) - f(x+a) --- (1)
    Also for any integer a+n
    (a+n)f'(x) = f(x+(a+n)) - f(x) ---(2)
    (2) - (1) yields :
    (a+n)f'(x) - nf'(x+a) = f(x+a) - f(x)
    as a is a natural number, the RHS is equal to af'(x). Thus,
    (a+n)f'(x) - nf'(x+a) = af'(x)
    And it follows that nf'(x) = nf'(x+a) for all natural n. As 0 is not a natural number, we can divide both sides by n, concluding that :
    f'(x+a) = f'(x) for any integer a.
    I.e d/dx( f(x+a) - f(x) ) = 0
    Thus, f(x+a) - f(x) = c for all naturals a.
    Using the initial functional equation, we conclude f'(x) = K and thus
    f(x) = Kx+C.
    Edit : I realised that I did basically the same thing as in the video. Nvm.

  • @blabla-rg7ky
    @blabla-rg7ky 4 года назад +2

    I understood absolutely nothing from these scribbles, but this shit relaxes me. I think I may be into math :)

  • @dragosstan2885
    @dragosstan2885 4 года назад +5

    Thanks! Maybee more elegant would be to use Fundamental Calculus Theorem for f’(x) on x...x+n then mean value theorem to prove that f’(x) is a constant.

  • @paulthompson9668
    @paulthompson9668 4 года назад +3

    4:27 You went directly from
    f'(x+1)-f'(x)=0
    to
    d/dx(f(x+1)-f(x))=0
    Is the operator d/dx distributive for all real functions f?

    • @giannisr.7733
      @giannisr.7733 4 года назад +3

      I think that we are looking only for differentiable functions, so it is ok

    • @arthurreitz9540
      @arthurreitz9540 4 года назад +5

      It's linear

    • @RunstarHomer
      @RunstarHomer 4 года назад +3

      For all differentiable functions, yes. That's why you can differentiate polynomials (or other functions, for that matter) one term at a time.

    • @paulthompson9668
      @paulthompson9668 4 года назад +2

      @@RunstarHomer Thanks everyone. I forgot those rules/results. I'm sure a math professor of mine proved that at one point.

    • @hemanthkotagiri8865
      @hemanthkotagiri8865 4 года назад

      when you have (d/dx)(x^2+x) you do this: (d/dx)(x^2) + (d/dx)(x). That's what he did there. going back.

  • @WILDXHjordi
    @WILDXHjordi 4 года назад +2

    Great video, Barney Stinson

  • @pandas896
    @pandas896 4 года назад +1

    Can f be a linear function only?

  • @overlordprincekhan
    @overlordprincekhan 3 года назад

    0:30
    TBH, it looks more like the formula of derivative of a function just without the " limit{n→0} " stuff

  • @andrewferrango3523
    @andrewferrango3523 4 года назад +44

    I feel like this was a really simple problem. It is just the definition of a derivative without the limit. So for any x, all points (x+N, f(x+N)) must be collinear. Already intuitively it must be a line. Suppose f'(x+c) != f'(x) for 0 < c < 1, then |f(x+c+k) - f(x+k)| ->infty for k in N, k->infty, so the function cannot be smooth

    • @loupiotable
      @loupiotable 4 года назад +5

      mmh, I agreay that intuitively the function is a line. But take f=exp. |f(x+c+k) - f(x+k)| = exp(x+k) * (exp(c) -1) and it tends to infinity with k.

    • @leedanilek5191
      @leedanilek5191 4 года назад

      This is how i tried to do it, but I found it tricky to prove the function had to be smooth. It does, because " f' = linear combination of f " with f differentiable implies f is smooth.

    • @Charliethephysicist
      @Charliethephysicist Год назад

      Wrong!

  • @SiggiTheHopper2
    @SiggiTheHopper2 4 года назад +5

    Could you be so nice to do something involving a consistency check for a Runge-Kutta method? For example, I can't really wrap my head around this task, but it does not have to be explicitely this. Anything similar should work.
    Consider the Runge method
    0 | 0 0
    1/2a | 1/2a 0
    ---------------------------
    | (1-a) a
    and determine whether it is consistent or not. Also check if there exists values for a such that the method is consistent of order 3 despite it's tableau size.

  • @ackinito
    @ackinito 4 года назад +26

    Great work. Of course the intuitive answer can be argued as such: the instantenoues rate of change is identically equal to the average rate of change only for linear (and constant) functions, for all x in the domain of f(x).

    • @axemenace6637
      @axemenace6637 4 года назад +5

      This does not even resemble a proof. Essentially, you have rephrased the question of proof using English. There is no merit in doing so.

    • @jaimeduncan6167
      @jaimeduncan6167 4 года назад +6

      @@axemenace6637 He was not proving anything, just saying that the answer match the intuition.

    • @BiscuitZombies
      @BiscuitZombies 3 года назад

      @@axemenace6637 Bruh he wasn't trying to prove it. He was saying that you can think of it like this before doing a proof to kinda get an intuition for what the answer should be

  • @maccollo
    @maccollo 4 года назад

    You know....... When you look back at the problem it makes perfect sense, because the first order finite difference schemes approximates the derivative f'(x) assuming that f(x) is a first order polynomial. That's more or less the setup of this problem is, except n is a natural number not all non zero real number,
    I'm guessing It should be possible to extend this to finite differences of higher orders, so for example all the solutions to the DE
    f'(x) = (f(x+n)-f(x-n))/2n
    should be all polynomials of order 2.

  • @mr.soundguy968
    @mr.soundguy968 Год назад

    It's easy to see in the beginning that all linear functions satisfy the rule. But to prove that no more functions satisfy the rule is the more challenging part.

  • @harim8110
    @harim8110 4 года назад +3

    the proof was cool but the Intuition is quite simple: since n is not approaching zero, it wont be the instantaneous rate of change unless f(x) is straight and not curved. So f(x) must be linear.

  • @agytjax
    @agytjax 4 года назад +8

    What an anti-climax ? After all the great work, it turns out to be the humble linear function :-)

  • @kyleperez4959
    @kyleperez4959 4 года назад +33

    I solved this through the use of Taylor's Theorem.
    We saw that f'(x) = [f(x+n)-f(x)]/n
    This implies that nf'(x) = f(x+n) - f(x) so long as n !=0 (there is some convention about 0 being a natural number, but we'll discount that).
    Rearranging, we have f(x+n) = f(x) + nf'(x)
    We can similarly Taylor Expand f(x+n) with respect to the variable n, with n_0 = 0 [a Maclaurin Series]. Also note that the derivative of f(x+n) with respect to x and with respect to n are the same. By this, we have
    f(x+n) = f(x)+nf'(x+n) + (1/2)n^2f''(x) + O(n^3)
    Comparing the two results we have found, we see that
    (1/2)n^2f''(x) + O(n^3) = 0
    Since we are looking for functions that satisfy this for all n, we are left with f''(x) = 0.
    Note that this second derivative condition is the strongest condition we get. Having the second derivative being zero immediately implies that all the higher order derivatives are 0.
    This immediately implies that f(x) = a+bx for real numbers a,b
    Observe the following:
    f'(x) = b
    [f(x+n)-f(x)]/n = [a+b(x+n) - (a+bx)]/n = bn /n = b
    Thus our postulate is satisfied by these functions a+bx
    From our initial derivative condition, we showed that the functions must be linear, moreover, every linear function satisfies this condition.
    Also note that this was only done with the assumption that n!= 0, and nowhere did we assume that n was a natural number. Indeed, this proves something even stronger in that we can pick n to be any nonzero real number.

    • @mario_veca
      @mario_veca 4 года назад +19

      This is far from being a proof
      1) the exercise asked for all differentiabile function, NOT 2 times differentiabile function
      2) if you consider n to be continuous (and you used it in order to say that f"(x)=0 ) you are asking for function which satisfy a much more strict condition, so nobody tells you that there is some nonlinear function which do not satisfy the identity required for all n in R, but still, satisfies it for n in N
      Example: if I ask for (differentiabile) functions which satisfy f(x+n)=f(x) for all x in R and for all n in R you end up with f being a constant; if you want that equality being satisfied for n in N you have much more functions, all function having period 1 (it isan infinity dimensional vector space of function).

    • @crazyfire100
      @crazyfire100 4 года назад +2

      We don’t know that it is twice differentiable

    • @thaddeusolczyk5909
      @thaddeusolczyk5909 4 года назад +3

      @@mario_veca You do know that it is twice differentiable.. Since the derivative is a linear combination of differentiable functions f(x+n) and f(x), the derivative is differentiable. You can then use induction to show that it is infinitely differentiable.
      However you do not know that the Taylor series is convergent, so you may not be able to expand ina Taylor series.

    • @Charliethephysicist
      @Charliethephysicist Год назад

      Wrong! n is a natural number not any real number.

  • @COZYTW
    @COZYTW 4 года назад +1

    Thank you. I don't know how this got into my recommended videos, but I do like category theory a good deal.

  • @RunstarHomer
    @RunstarHomer 4 года назад +1

    I'm not that familiar with the Putnam exam. It seemed obvious to me at the beginning that the solution was any linear or constant function. On the exam, would it be necessary to provide a rigorous proof like this one, or would it be sufficient to simply state that in order to meet the conditions presented, the function must have a constant rate of change?

  • @user-en5vj6vr2u
    @user-en5vj6vr2u 2 года назад

    I feel like whenever one answer is linear functions it ends up being the only answer. Im just conjecturing here but is there some kind of uniqueness theorem for functional equations when one solution is a linear function?

  • @akramzine5155
    @akramzine5155 4 года назад

    A beautiful way to do this is as follow :Since f' is a linear combination of differentiable function, f is twice differentiable. Take the initial equation and instead of f'(x)=1/n(f(x+n)-f(x)) write f'(x+n)=1/n(f(x+2n)-f(x+n)) then replace f'(x+n) with nf"(x)+f'(x) and f(x+2n) with 2nf'(x)+f(x) and finally f(x+n) with nf'(x)+f(x) thus you will get f"(x)=0, it's easy to go on from this.

  • @thayanithirk1784
    @thayanithirk1784 4 года назад +3

    Good explanation😀😀😀

  • @cacostaangulo
    @cacostaangulo 4 года назад +2

    Michael... could be used the Lagrange's Theorem to solve this problem? Thank you

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  4 года назад +1

      which Lagrange's Theorem?

    • @cacostaangulo
      @cacostaangulo 4 года назад +6

      @@MichaelPennMath f'(c)=(f(b)-f(a))/(b-a) for a continuous and derivative function, being c a point in the interval (a, b). Making b=x÷n and a=x, then f'(c)=f'(x) and f"(c) is a constant value u. Then integration. f(x) = ux + v. Thank you

  • @ragusan2536
    @ragusan2536 2 года назад

    How/Where do I learn this?

  • @arthurgames9610
    @arthurgames9610 4 года назад +1

    I done this by other way:
    if x=0: f'(0)=(f(n)-f(0))/n
    f'(0)=tan(theta)
    (f(n)-f(0))/n=tan(alpha)
    So theta=alpha
    Because theta is constant, alpha is constant too, so because alpha is constant f(x) is a straight line, so it's of the form ax+b

    • @killers31337
      @killers31337 4 года назад

      You only proved that points f(n) lie on a straight line, not that f(x) for any real x is on a straight line.

  • @jeewansingh4060
    @jeewansingh4060 4 года назад +1

    except for the last part(05:30), I understood everything and loved the proof

    • @IS-eb9lf
      @IS-eb9lf 4 года назад

      if you know that constant func derivative is zero and only if it is constant, then it is easy to prove that if two functions have the same derivative, then their difference must be constant. (he did it in the video) At last, if you dy/dx linear you will have a constant. So if you have df/dx = A, then f = Ax + C

  • @_kopcsi_
    @_kopcsi_ 4 года назад +1

    well there is a much easier and more intuitive way to solve this. the "discrete version" of the differential quotient defined in the question is simply a secant of the curve, meanwhile its limit is the tangent of the curve. knowing this we can conclude and even prove that the set of linear functions is the only solution. because we can approach the same question from a different, but equivalent way: which functions are those whose tangent's slope at any given point is equal to the slope of an infinite number of other secants drawn from the same point? the line is the only geometrical structure which satisfies this since the line is the only geometrical object in which case the tangents are identical to the secants (so the tangents and the secants degenerate into the same object).

  • @weilam
    @weilam 4 года назад +1

    Nice explanation! Can you do putnam question of A5 as well?

  • @iagree3409
    @iagree3409 8 месяцев назад

    Isnt sin(2πx) and cos(2πx) also solution?

  • @borzydar1196
    @borzydar1196 4 года назад +1

    What aobut periodic functions? f'(x+1)=f'(x) => f'(x) = sin(20x/pi)

    • @user_2793
      @user_2793 4 года назад +1

      That equation isn't your only constraint. You also need to use the defining property of such function (s) I.e. the question statement.

  • @evankalis
    @evankalis 2 года назад

    A purpose of the derivative is to linearize and it becomes more accurate on a function with h -> 0 for the formal def. The only class of functions that dont care about this limiting behavior is already linearized functions themselves. Is this sound reasoning?

  • @PaulMurrayCanberra
    @PaulMurrayCanberra 4 года назад

    Wat? Surely any function at all of the natural numbers has a derivative, provided theres no infinite values.
    I mean, x^2 has a derivative in the reals, right? Why doesnt it have a derivative over the rationals?

  • @egillandersson1780
    @egillandersson1780 4 года назад +2

    If f(x)=ax+b-cos(2𝜋x), then f'(x)=a+sin(2𝜋x)=a+sin(2𝜋x+2𝜋n)=f'(x+n)
    Is there a mistake ?

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  4 года назад +5

      Your forgot the chain rule!

    • @egillandersson1780
      @egillandersson1780 4 года назад +1

      @@MichaelPennMath Oh ! Yes. It is on my sheet but I forgot to write it in my comment. But nothing changes : f'(x)=a+2𝜋sin(2𝜋x)=a+2𝜋sin(2𝜋x+2𝜋n)=f'(x+n)

    • @hach1koko
      @hach1koko 4 года назад

      You do have f'(x)=f'(x+n) here so f(x+n)-f(x) is a constant but that's all you get. In the exercise you need to assume that f verifies the original equation to get f'(x)=C.

  • @thaddeusolczyk5909
    @thaddeusolczyk5909 4 года назад

    I approached it with a method that is bit more mathematically sophisticated and systematic. I observe that if h(x) and g(x) are solutions then all linear combinations, Af(x)+Bg(x), are solutions.
    A little play indicates that Ax+B is a solution. So I can write f(x)=g(x)+f''(0)x+f(0). Where g(x) is also a solution but with g'(0)=0 and g(0)=0. Then write $g(x)=\int p(k)e^(ikx) dk $. Plug that in and you discover that p(k) =0 when k!= 0. So g(x) is at most a constant and thus 0.

  • @sheerrmaan
    @sheerrmaan 4 года назад +4

    Why did he write it down just until n=2 ? Is it enough to demonstrate that the equation is satisfied for all whole n ?

    • @snickydoodle4744
      @snickydoodle4744 4 года назад

      it would be actually! If you wanna be more formal about it you can prove it by induction

    • @_Ytreza_
      @_Ytreza_ 4 года назад +1

      The fact that f satisfies the equation for all n is the assumption.
      He only needed to write it for n = 1 and 2 because it gave enough necessary conditions to narrow down the solution f.
      After proving that f is necessary an affine function, he should have proved that affine functions satisfy the equation but it's quite simple.

  • @afonsorufino4867
    @afonsorufino4867 4 года назад

    This can also be easily deduced by doing a Fourier transform of the equation

  • @skylardeslypere9909
    @skylardeslypere9909 4 года назад

    Could you also have trigonometric functions (with period of 1) that 'look' linear from far? I mean like
    x + sin(x) or cos(x) - x or something. Would that even be possible?

    • @FadkinsDiet
      @FadkinsDiet 4 года назад

      No, that's one of the last steps.

    • @mcwulf25
      @mcwulf25 4 года назад

      I thought that. It applies to the f(X+n) = constant part but not the original eqn.

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад +1

      @@mcwulf25 they dont satisfy f' being constant

  • @omarjyharb
    @omarjyharb 4 года назад +1

    What about functions that are periodic, with period of 1.
    They also satisfy f'(x+1) - f'(x) =0.
    Like f(x) = sin(2pi * x)

    • @sweatshirtman8933
      @sweatshirtman8933 4 года назад

      Yeah, the proof is incomplete as is. To fix it, you would need to use the same process but instead of substituting 1 and 2 as n, use n and 2n. If you work it out, you will get f’(x)=f’(x+n) and this will narrow the solution to only linear functions. I hope this helps!

    • @cookieshade197
      @cookieshade197 4 года назад +2

      Yes, but they don't satisfy that f'(x) = f(x+1)-f(x). This allows concluding that f''(x) = 0, which doesn't hold for periodic functions.

  • @dnre123
    @dnre123 4 года назад

    Thank you for sharing this video!

  • @sirB0nes
    @sirB0nes 4 года назад

    I agree that this would be a more elementary proof if Michael showed that the property was satisfied by all affine functions (which is what he means when he says "linear functions"). But I don't agree that it's incomplete as he presents it. He's appealing to previous results: you can prove using the Mean Value Theorem that the only continuous functions that have derivative identically 0 are constant--and then you can cite that result any time you want without proving it again. Similarly, the Mean Value Theorem implies that the only continuous functions that have constant derivative are affine functions. And then you can cite that result any time you want without having to prove it again. This is what he means when he says "by elementary differential calculus."
    Also, for the people thinking about periodic functions with period 1: it's true that those functions will satisfy the property f(x+1)-f(x)=0, but it is not true that they satisfy the original property from the statement of the problem. Such functions will have f(x+n)-f(x)=0 for all x and for all n, but they will not have f'(x)=0 for all x (otherwise, they would be constant functions...because Mean Value Theorem). This is exactly the point that No Way Haze makes below: Michael shows that, if a function satisfies Property A, then it also satisfies Property B; that doesn't mean that any function satisfying Property B also satisfies Property A.

  • @jha4197
    @jha4197 4 года назад

    By mathematical induction, f'(x) = f'(x+n)

  • @hellopeter121
    @hellopeter121 4 года назад +1

    Just put n tending to infinity and apply lhopital's rule, the RHS becomes a constant limit

    • @user_2793
      @user_2793 4 года назад

      How do you know that as n approaches infinity f(x+n) also approaches infinity? You can't use l'hospitals rule here.

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад

      And also n is a discrete variable

  • @uy-ge3dm
    @uy-ge3dm 4 года назад

    Such an easy Putnam problem... instant solve...

  • @shaevor5680
    @shaevor5680 4 года назад

    So in this proof you essentially only used the fact f'(x) = f(x+1)-f(x) = (f(x+2)-f(x))/2 and didn't need the statement for higher n. But what if we only assume f'(x) = f(x+1)-f(x) ? In other words, is there a differentiable function f: R -> R that satisfies f'(x) = f(x+1) - f(x) but is not linear? I guess that at least for infinitely differentable functions there shouldn't be any, but I couln't prove it yet.

  • @ImaginaryMdA
    @ImaginaryMdA Год назад

    Oh, that solution is waaaay easier than the one I found.

  • @kylecow1930
    @kylecow1930 Год назад

    the tangent line must intersect all a+n, if its not tangent to some a+n then a+n+1 intersects two different tangent lines which is impossible, so f' is periodic with period 1 so d/dx(f(x+1)-f(x))=0 so f(x+1)-f(x)=C, f(x+1)-f(x)/1 = f'(x) so f'=C and f(x)=Cx+D

  • @qwrty6348
    @qwrty6348 4 года назад

    Is this proof wrong:
    I saw that the right side of the original equation was the limit def. of a derivative so I recognized that it must be the average rate of change over an interval of [x, n]. Assuming there is a function whose derivative at one point is the same as its average rate of change from one point to another arbitrary point exists, this implies that any change in the second point won't cause the original equality to become false. A function that does this must have the same derivative everywhere because if not, then changing the second point will make the original equality false. The only function whose derivative is constant every where is a linear function f(x) = mx + b.
    I thought it might be wrong because I didn't use the fact that n (which I referred to as the 'second point') is element of the natural numbers, even though that isn't necessary for my explanation.

  • @markkennedy9767
    @markkennedy9767 4 года назад +1

    Can somebody be tell me why he doesn't have to show this for more than n=1 and n=2. It's sure he's right but it's just bugging me

    • @tonymontana9221
      @tonymontana9221 4 года назад +1

      It is one of the conditions for this problem. If it works for every number n, then picking 2 numbers n will just be good enough.

    • @markkennedy9767
      @markkennedy9767 4 года назад

      @@tonymontana9221 ok thanks but why couldn't say n=3 and n=4 produce different additional properties giving a more general solution for f'(x). I strongly suspect they don't but I thought he would do an induction step or something to show this and only this solution for all n. Apologies if I'm not getting this

    • @jcastellvi1
      @jcastellvi1 4 года назад +2

      @@markkennedy9767 The hypothesis say that for every n, the function f must satisfy a given property. Using the cases n=1 and n=2, he derives a NECESSARY condition that all solutions must satisfy, namely that they are straight lines. Then he says he is done, but he should have checked that, in fact, all straight lines satisfy the hypothesis, which means that being a straight line is a SUFFICIENT condition, hence proving that the functions that satisfy the hypothesis are, precisely, the straight lines.
      This means that the solution to this problem is exactly the same as the solution to the problem relaxing the condition "for all n" to only "for n=1 and n=2".

  • @kwinvdv
    @kwinvdv 4 года назад

    It is incorrect that linear functions are the only solutions. Namely, this system is linear time invariant for which in general the solutions are often of the form exp(a x). Plugging that into the initial differential equation yields a=(-W_k(-1/e)-1)/n, with W_k(x) the kth Lambert-W function. It can be noted that for k=-m and k=m+1 yields complex conjugate values (with positive real part), which means that f(x) could also be a linear combination of exponentially growing oscillations.

    • @_Ytreza_
      @_Ytreza_ 4 года назад

      So your value a depends on n ? Do you understand that the equation must be satisfied for any natural number n ?

  • @Daniel-ye4uz
    @Daniel-ye4uz 4 года назад

    Great video! Why did the question say for all n rather than just n=1 and n=2?

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад

      To allow other approaches and to disguise the solution

  • @Ara_-gu8mk
    @Ara_-gu8mk 4 года назад +3

    Question tell slope of the function remains constant. Hence straight lines.

  • @NVDAbets
    @NVDAbets 4 года назад

    You got my subscription right now

  • @marccowan3585
    @marccowan3585 4 года назад +1

    At 4:11 you could have just set it equal to a constant rather than your whole random ramble, and in general although this is a nice proof, I think there are much simpler ways to do this

    • @hach1koko
      @hach1koko 4 года назад

      What are you talking about ?

  • @loteanuadrian7555
    @loteanuadrian7555 4 года назад

    I think I have a simpler solution. If f(x+n) grows to infinity then make n go to infinity in f’(x)=(f(x+n)-f(x))/n and apply l’Hospital with n as the variable and get f’(x)=f’(x+inf)=f’(inf). It follows that f’(inf) exists and is finite and as this is true for all x it follows that f’(x) is constant. Therefore f(x) is a linear function.
    If f(x+n) does not go to infinity then it is either bounded or oscilates between +/- infinity or infinity and some finite values. If it is bounded then as n->inf we get f’(x)=0 which means f is constant which is a particular case of linear equation. It is easy to show it cannot oscilate as if it oscilates then f’(x) must be 0 for the equation to hold for all n, which is a contradiction. Qed

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад +1

      You cant use L'H if you got a discrete variable I guess
      And since the functional eq. only holds for n in N, we cant switch to continous variables

  • @MrGeorge1896
    @MrGeorge1896 4 года назад +6

    When we are looking just at the right hand side of the board at the end of the video so what about f'(x)=sin(2*pi*x), which also satisfies f'(x+1)-f'(x)=0 while not being constant. Of course we won't get a valid solution for the problem with this f'(x) so the proof on the right side is not flawless.

    • @TwinDoubleHelix
      @TwinDoubleHelix 4 года назад +2

      Under-rated comment. This proof has an important hole

    • @ebonilha
      @ebonilha 4 года назад

      No, the proof is fine. In the last line he used the problem hypothesis that f(x + 1) - f(x) = f'(x), combined with f(x + 1) - f(x) = c (which 1-periodic funcions would indeed satisfy) to get f'(x) = c (which they would not).

    • @chemmaz
      @chemmaz 4 года назад

      He was talking about the function g, where g'(x) = f'(x+1) - f'(x), and not f. Since g'(x) = 0, then g(x) = c. That's why f(x+1) - f(x) is constant. What he wrote on the third line would still be satisfied with the function you gave; f'(x) = sin(2πx), where f(x+1) - f(x) = -1/(2π) cos(2πx + 2π) +1/(2π) cos(2πx) = 0, which is a constant in R. The proof is complete.

  • @ktk1229
    @ktk1229 4 года назад

    nice vid man, liked it.⚡

  • @robokarizma0308
    @robokarizma0308 3 года назад

    This is beautiful

  • @jongyon7192p
    @jongyon7192p 4 года назад

    I made a stupid infinite matrix equation for a vector of all the coefficients of a Taylor series from the x^2 term. And i found all of them have to be zero. So I'm left with the x^1 x^0 terms. It was overly complicated, the way i went about it.

  • @WilliamLimao
    @WilliamLimao 4 года назад

    Need to check if every implication is actually an "if and only if".

  • @joaopedrogoncalvesramos2218
    @joaopedrogoncalvesramos2218 Год назад

    Unnecessarily hard solution: let P(x,n) be the assertion of the problem. Then P(x,n+1) compared with P(x+1,n) and then sending n to infinity implies f’(x+1)=f’(x). Notice that then f’ is periodic, and hence since P(x,n) holds, f’ is bounded (as f is continuous).
    Then we use the fundamental theorem of calculus: f(x)-f(0) is the integral from 0 to x of f’(t). But this equals floor(x) times integral f’(t), plus a bounded term. Dividing by x and sending x to infinity, we conclude that lim f(x)/x exists (and equals integral f’(t) from 0 to 1).
    Now we just take n to infinity in our original equation. The RHS converges to a limit L independent of x, while the left is simply f’(x). Hence f’ constant, and f is affine.
    Notice that this shows we only need the property to hold for sufficiently large n.

  • @thedoublehelix5661
    @thedoublehelix5661 4 года назад +4

    Shouldn't you check your work and prove that f satisfies the differential equation for all n in the natural numbers

  • @danielleza908
    @danielleza908 Год назад

    Since not all steps are reversible, the proof is incomplete. One should verify directly that the linear functions indeed satisfy the condition.

  • @martinzapata7289
    @martinzapata7289 2 года назад

    But it wasn’t a good place to stop???

  • @Duedme
    @Duedme 4 года назад

    Maaan, I really do need to get to study right now

  • @caffreys1979
    @caffreys1979 3 года назад

    And a quick verification shows...
    f(x)=cx+d;
    f(x+n)=c(x+n)+d;
    f'(x)= [f(x+n)-f(x)]/n = (cx+cn+d-cx-d)/ n = cn/n = c (QED)
    A consequence of this is that the derivative of any smooth continuous LINEAR function does NOT depend on N (i.e "dx" (or delta x)), so we dont even need to think of it as a LIMIT tending to 0. The only time we need to think of it as a limit tending to 0 is for degree 2 or higher. (Quadratic, Cubic etc, as there it DOES depend on N). :)
    Q: Would it work for f(x) = |x| ?? Strictly speaking no as mod x is not smooth it has a sharp point at 0 where is not differentiable, so we would have to include a domain of validity e.g x > 0 or x < 0 for it to make sense... (it is "piecewise" continuous though but not smooth)

  • @noreldenzenky1527
    @noreldenzenky1527 4 года назад

    Great mr go on

  • @chaosredefined3834
    @chaosredefined3834 3 года назад

    What about f(x) = sin(2*x*pi) and f(x) = cos(2*x*pi)? These will have the same condition, f(x) = f(x+1), and will affect your answer.

  • @samueljele
    @samueljele 4 года назад

    I'm a little bit concerned about the last part of the proof, maybe you could elaborate it a bit more.
    You say, that from f'(x+1)-f'(x)=0 follows d/dx(f(x+1)-f(x))=0, so the difference must be constant, which of course is correct. But consider the counterexample for c=0:
    f(x) =sin(2pi*x)
    f'(x+1) - f(x)'=2pi*(cos(2pi*x+2pi) - cos(2pi*x)) = 0
    The condition f'(x+1) - f'(x) = 0 just means that the derivative of the function is periodic. So you would have to rule out all of the non linear but periodic functions in order to complete the proof.

    • @shaevor5680
      @shaevor5680 4 года назад

      He does. After concluding that f(x+1)-f(x) is a constant, he goes back to the equation f'(x) = f(x+1) - f(x) and replaces the right hand side with said constant.

    • @markryback3797
      @markryback3797 4 года назад

      @@shaevor5680 I don't see this.
      f'(x+1)=f'(x) is satisfied by periodic function, and f(x+1)=f(x) also, so how we exclude such function?

    • @_Ytreza_
      @_Ytreza_ 4 года назад

      @@markryback3797 The initial equation satisfied by f is that (for n = 1) f'(x) = f(x+1)-f(x)
      He proves that f(x+1)-f(x) is constant, therefore f'(x) is constant

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад

      Your sine function doesnt satisfy f'(x) = f(x+1) - f(x), which he did use in his very next step

  • @kriswillems5661
    @kriswillems5661 4 года назад

    I saw the answer 2 seconds after the question, but I just couldn't prove it in a formal way. The difficulty of this question is the formal proof.

  • @timtime7360
    @timtime7360 Год назад

    I wish all putnam problems are easy as this one

  • @abhishektendolkar5036
    @abhishektendolkar5036 4 года назад

    It was the very first equation taught to start with differentiation aka first principle 😀

  • @AhmedBachir
    @AhmedBachir 4 года назад

    for me i found that f" is defined since f'(x)=f(x+1)-f(x) and f"(x)=f'(x+1)-f'(x)
    then i worked with f'(x+1)
    since f'(x)=f(x+1)-f(x) we get f'(x+1)=f(x+2)-f(x+1).....(1)
    since 2f'(x)=f(x+2)-f(x) we have 2f'(x)+f(x)=f(x+2) .....(2)
    since f'(x)=f(x+1)-f(x) we have f'(x)+f(x)=f(x+1)....(3)
    using (2) and (3) in (1) we get f"(x)=0
    hence f(x)=ax+b
    but notice that what we have done is true just for n=1 and n=2 and we need to check that this holds true for all n in IN
    we have nf'(x) =na and f(x+n)-f(x)=a(x+n)+b-ax-b=na
    hence the solutions of the problem are under the form f(x)=ax+b

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад

      You should mention that f is twice differentiable since f'(x) = f(x+1) - f(x). This implies that f' is diff. (RHS is diff.)

  • @conrad5342
    @conrad5342 3 года назад

    Thank you for the solution. It looks so obvious. However, I am still confused how f(x) = cos 2πx agrees to f'(x) = f'(x+1), but it does not solve the initial equation.

    • @lrrobock
      @lrrobock 3 года назад

      same. that's where i got lost (and still am). a function where the slope is the same as the slope at x+1 made me think of trig function. how is it that an answer to the intermediary step is not an answer to the original problem... i'm confused.

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад

      So where is the confusion exactly?
      Trig functions may satisfy f'(x+1) = f'(x) but as you pointed out, we got further restrictions
      The step at 5:09 is the 'neck breaker' for the trigs

  • @bttfish
    @bttfish 4 года назад

    It's not done yet! You need to check that the linear functions satisfy all conditions! Otherwise you will lose points!

  • @mcwulf25
    @mcwulf25 4 года назад

    Why can't f'(X) be a wave function. Eg f'(X) = cos(2πx) then f'(X+1) = cos(2πx+2π) = cos (2πx)

    • @mcwulf25
      @mcwulf25 4 года назад

      Actually forget that. Doesn't work with the original eqn.

  • @ziyanwang6937
    @ziyanwang6937 4 года назад

    I think the prove is incomplete because d/dx(f(x+1)-f(x)) = 0 *CAN’T* get you a linear function. A sin function with period 1 also satisfies that.
    I come up with a very different approach. The right part of the equation can’t be written in a integral of f’(x)/n from x to x+n. Let’s randomly pick some x, say 1. The left part is an integral of f’(1)/n from 1 to 1+n, and the right side can be written as f’(x)/n from 1 to 1+n. So we know that f’(x) = f’(1), which is some constant. Therefore, the function must be linear.

    • @_Ytreza_
      @_Ytreza_ 4 года назад

      The right part of the equation can’t be written in a integral of f’(x)/n from x to x+n. Let’s randomly pick some x, say 1
      The left part is an integral of f’(1)/n from 1 to 1+n"
      What does this mean ?
      You can write (f(x+n)-f(x))/n as integral(f(t)/n, for t = x to x+n) indeed (I think the assumptions on f are sufficient)
      Then you can change x if you want, if you put x = 1, you get integral(f(t)/n, for t = 1 to 1+n)
      You can't assign a value to the variable t inside the integral

    • @reeeeeplease1178
      @reeeeeplease1178 2 года назад

      His proof is valid, you just skipped some steps.
      The function f(x+1)-f(x) definitely has to be constant. Your sine finction satisfies this.
      But it does not satisfy f'(x) = f(x+1) - f(x), which he used in the next step to get f' is constant

  • @paritosh07
    @paritosh07 4 года назад

    Seems like LMVT.

  • @speeshers
    @speeshers 4 года назад

    Wow, great proof!

  • @adamfattal468
    @adamfattal468 4 года назад

    I have an alternative solution: Linear functions. It’s trivial

  • @vbcool83
    @vbcool83 4 года назад

    I was thinking more in terms of taylor series of f(x+n), but that assumes infinite differentiability :(
    Then I pondered that f(x) = [x]*f'(x-[x]) + f(x-[x]) --- (1)
    So, this becomes the study of a real valued function f in the domain [0,1).
    It's easy to deduce that f'(0) = f(1) - f(0)
    Let's assume that for some 0 < h < 1, f'(h) f(1) - f(0) (used to denote not equals sign)
    This would mean that f(1+h) f(h) + f(1) - f(0)
    But from (1) f(1+h) = f(1) - f(0) + f(h), which leads to a contradiction.
    This means that for all 0

    • @_Ytreza_
      @_Ytreza_ 4 года назад

      I don't think it's obvious that the Taylor series of f converges so I don't know if it's a valid approach.

  • @jeffreykalb9752
    @jeffreykalb9752 4 года назад

    Two words: Laplace transforms...

  • @cmilkau
    @cmilkau 4 года назад

    Would write this as f(x+n) = f(x) + nf'(x). Now this is clearly a line when n can take any value, but only naturals are given. Now observe f'(x+1) = f'(x) + 1f"(x) and (f(x+1+n) - f(x+1))/n = f'(x). By task request, both LHS have to be equal and thus f"(x) = 0, so f has the form f(x) = ax + b (integrate twice). It is easy to show any values for a and b will do.
    Now how to come up with this? I initially let f(x) be anything, say g(x) between 0 and 1 and reconstructed the rest of f from the (rearranged) task equation. this gives you f(x) = g(x - z) + zg'(x - z) where z=floor(x). Now the task gave us an equation so I computed the LHS and the RHS of that equation. This gives you g"(x - z) = 0 and f"(x) = g"(x - z) = 0. Now g is essentially just f restricted to 0..1 so the whole argument can be done with f itself instead of g. Also n occurs twice in different roles but we can choose a simple value like 1 in one occasion. Actually could even have done that for both n, but it seemed more obvious to let one n just stay.

  • @benyseus6325
    @benyseus6325 Год назад +1

    All of that just to get a: y = mx + b, lol

  • @allinall6736
    @allinall6736 4 года назад +1

    What about negative axis .as n belongs to N

  • @Saki630
    @Saki630 4 года назад +2

    WTF? I saw the answer right away by looking at the statement. I immediately noticed it was linear functions only, because I am a genius, would that be a valid answer?

  • @수하긴
    @수하긴 4 года назад

    I am touched by you
    I mean 'Not physically'