calvin is the man! i called park tool when rebuilding my i9 system wheel and he gave me some tips, inspired some confidence and they came together great and now i am building my own wheels. concurrently i also got 2 friends to build their first wheel by relaying some tips and inspiring similar confidence. there wheels turned out great, they ride them hard and they are still true. some real satisfaction riding your own wheels! i would love to watch a straight pull spoke just to see it, take some new tips, refresh memory
I was building wheels for myself back in the late '70s. Replacing steel rims with aluminum (Wow, what a difference!) After trying different patterns, I settled on 3-cross, not interlaced. The initial tensioning of the spokes was made a lot easier because I could pluck the spokes and adjust by the pitch of the tone they made. Interlaced spokes could not give a clear tone. Thanks to this video, after all these years I now no longer feel guilty about not having interlaced. Rear wheels were heavily dished in those days. There was a noticeable difference in pitch between the one side and the other.
Very cool video. I bought Jobst Brandts book and never looked back. Built several wheelsets over the last 20 years. One of the best feelings of accomplishments in the world.
Same. The book told me everything I needed. Built two Sturmey Archer drum brake hubs trued against the frame with a clothes peg. And from reading I knew to go 2x on the big flanges even though people all over the internet insisted that more crosses = more better. Still had plenty of angle for a strong wheel, I rode them until the drum brakes wore through the hub around 35k miles. In only touched them once, when I got a truing stand, to raise the standard of true and dish a bit.
@@chrislukes9037 INTERLACED SPOKES Spokes in a crossed pattern are usually interlaced at their last crossing before reaching the rim. Spokes coming from between the flanges are laid over those from outside the flanges. Interlaced spokes take up each other's slack during severe radial loading and reduce the chance of spokes becoming loose. If spokes become loose, their nipples can unscrew. Radial spokes cannot be interlaced and therefore, lose alignment from road shock more easily. Interlacing also gives more clearance between the spokes and the derailleur on rear wheels.
First of all, your channel is amazing. Thank you for sharing the knowledge, and amazing tools as well :) I found that interlacing reduces the vibration of the spokes, which helps the spoke nipples to hold the tension. I've had few radial laced wheels coming back for spoke re-tension, as during the bympy rides they tend to unwind themselves. Mostly front wheels though. Dt Swiss spoke freeze fixed the issue, but with interlacing it never happened.
The build strength has more to do with the components and even tension. 4 cross is no stronger than 2 but 4x will likely have more spokes and shallower rim so sometimes it's just a necessity.
@@countspokeula539 geometry deny you, on wheel with 36 spokes , on same hub, same rim , on 4 cross, spokes are on longer distance-radius from axle, so spoke has longer lever so it can transfer more force/momentum for same spoke strength, but question is do you need that strength because you need 4 spokes more and all spokes are longer for some 4-6mm, or 32 spoke wheel will satisfy your need for wheel-strength
In my opinion interlacing makes the wheel stiff but at the same time more flexible to impact. It has kind of the same effect that two butted spokes have. Without interlacing all the possible damping is gone and all the stress comes right at the most vulnarable points like the J bend etc. For that reason I also think the amount of impact a wheel can withstand and absorb is greater with an interlaced wheel. So therefor I believe an interlaced wheel is more durable and is more fit for applications like mountainbikes, kids bikes and city bikes. If you are on a straight road and choose for speed I think non interlacing is the application for you; more stiffness, more efficiency and less loss of unwanted loss of energy. And therefor I think that with the same amount of impact the interlaced wheel will last longer until the first spoke should brake. Besides that, the stress, and therefor the wear on the J bend will probably be much greater than on the crossings of the spokes on the interlaced wheel. So the wear on that the point of the crossing can in my view be neglected. And no one has ever seen in their life a spoke that was broken on that point 😉
Wheel building is currently beyond my comfort level. It seems to be much more art than science. What I can say is that every cross point in a spoked wheel, especially if the crossing spokes touch, makes that wheel harder to clean effectively.
it's really easy, I definitely recommend trying it. a lot of people are scared of tensioning, but if you just take another wheel and pinch two spikes together you'll know about how it should feel. I see it the same way I see new tricks or riding techniques, scary at first but definitely worth knowing.
@@ratman6417 I'm new at this game, and thus far everything I've learned about bike repair and refurb has been from need -- if it didn't need doing, I didn't learn how. So far I've not encountered a wheel that "needs" rebuilding. But someday, no doubt, I will.
That’s what wheel builders want you to believe. It’s 100% a science. You will find people discussing about what lube they use for nipples and spoke threads. Some of them will use line seed oil, some grease, some a mix of frog blood and cat pee… But it’s actually extremely fan to build wheels. Just try once, you won’t regret it
@@rangersmith4652 it opens up a lot of options for cheaper solutions, want a cassette on your cheaper bike? easy, just buy a hub. I run a bike shop so I have to know a ton a stupid, weird skills and tricks. wheel building is a good one to know
My experience. Straight pull is noisy and stiff, but no stronger than other wheels. Soldered track wheels are strong and stiff as hell, but no one really wants that for a road or trail ride. Three cross (interlace) are just right, except for radial on a front road or track wheel. Interlace provides some damping.
Bontrager paradigm comp from a few years ago is straight pull+interlaced. The rubbing helped me figure out that the tension from the factory was too low.
Interesting! But I am still studying. I can see physics-based arguments for or against interlacing. Depending on the goal. Most rigid wheel? Most durable wheel? The tension cross is a spring. Do I want the spring or not?
I remember picking up a used tubular wheelset in the 1970's specifically for the Phil hubs, which I couldn't afford new at the time. Every one of the 36 spokes on each wheel had been wrapped with thin wire and soldered at the interlace point. I thought of all the extra work that took, and I assumed that the previous owner was aiming for a stiffer wheelset, but who really knows?
At the time, there was a belief that tying and soldering spokes had a stiffness benefit. That theory has since been debunked - or at least proven to be negligible - although there is still a race day application for tying and soldering spokes: spoke retention. Especially with disc brakes these days where you can break a spoke and keep riding, tying and soldering spokes can prevent a broken spoke from flying around and getting caught in derailleurs, brake calipers, etc. All that to say that it is a dying (if not dead) practice.
All my wheels are built by myself. Been doing it for 15 years now. I actually started mixing in 2-Cross on the high tension side to increase the bracing angle and i usually never interlace 2-cross spokes unless they are bladed because the bend angle of the spoke would be too much. Otherwise, i always interlace because of the spring effect y’all mentioned. So generally, 3-cross interlace on the low tension side and 2-cross non-interlace on the high tension side. I’ve never had an issue with derailleur clearance. Also, i wonder if pedaling energy is being lost on an interlaced rear wheel because of needing to load the “spring” (to straighten the drive spokes) with every pedal stroke. What are your thoughts?
When you mentioned older Schwinns I had look at my photos. I have a pair of 1963 Hollywoods that I was going to clean up. Sure enough they are not interlaced! those rims are still tough as nails.
I've built wheels both ways over the years I must admit to oiling the spokes to silence a cricketing noise. Those are the wheels that eventually broke spokes. The noise is there to let you know your spokes are probably too loose. I didn't realize that interlacing spokes increases spoke to derailleur clearance. I had no idea straight pull spokes were all in the same plane and would touch without interlacing. There is also the little controversy over which spokes should be the pulling ones. I had one track wheel laced asymmetric and wondered why. Interesting topic!
"There is also the little controversy over which spokes should be the pulling ones." Actually, I've heard arguments for both...what's the current consensus? And does it matter with disc hubs, which have stresses in both directions? I used to lace the pulling spokes on the outside, but now I lace the pulling spokes on the inside, and haven't really seen much of difference either way.
Really interesting. Thanks! I always took this for granted, I do think that there is benefit in how you align the outside leading spokes. Asymmetrical in the rear and symmetrical in the front makes a lot of sense with disk wheels.
i did a 20" wheel with a hub motor once, it took like 60mm spokes and they had to be 0 cross. rim was super wide too with large offset on the holes. stingray chopper was the bike
The two main reasons for interlacing have to do with rim compliance and whether the holes in the rim are drilled on center or off center to compensate for the side of the rim. Racing tires that were built in the '70s and '80s we're going for skinny high pressure and rims that couldn't necessarily handle a large impact and so to compensate for this the spokes were interlaced to allow some compliance. Modern rims typically have a much deeper dish and are not compliant enough for the given the spokes to even matter. Secondly as mentioned in the video the angle of the spoke and during the rim on some combinations tends to have too much of a bend at the nipple. Interlacing reduces this bend, and on rims where all of the holes were drilled dead center on the rim this mattered but modern rims have the holes drilled off center to align with which side of the flange the spoke will be going to, so another reason modern wheels do not get interlaced
Great vid guys. I literally built a wheel (2 cross) just recently without interlacing. A rear wheel on my fixie. No noticeable difference to me. Interlacing can make sense on the drive side rear wheel for more derailleur room?
This video just reinforces my resentment for ebikes with hub motors. There's no good way to lace those things so the manufacturers insist larger gauge spokes are the answer, which doesn't prevent failure, only makes it hold out until after the warranty period has expired. It also exacerbates other problems with the way those wheels are often built. The closest I saw to a well built wheel with a hub motor was the later generation of BionX motors, and that's because they had a big motor between two small (conventionally sized) flanges and straight pull spokes. This allowed for tangential lacing with minimal deflection at the nipple.
Very interesting, thanks for questioning what isn't solidified in science and practise. I have been teaching wheel building for years and always recommended interlacing, some wheels that were stripped and rebuilt without interlacing seemed difficult to true until corrected. Some questions I have based on that experience: Does interlacing change the required spoke length? Are spoke calculators designed around interlacing (or perhaps even not!? They seem more theory based)? Does it make a difference to perceived spoke tension versus actual force being applied to the flange and rim?
Spoke length formulas are not that precise, but in theory it would change a straight line. Don't change length for the interlace. The spoke head pulls just as much at the flange with either method.
I have maybe 10 recumbent trikes in my fleet. Being trikes they put enormous lateral loads on the wheels. The wheels (20 and 26") are built 1 cross, 2 cross, 1 cross on one side of the hub and radial on the other. Some interlaced, some not. The same brand and model trike has had different spoke patterns between production runs. My conclusion is that if the wheel is built and tensioned properly, it doesn't matter if it's interlaced or not.
Hey, hi from France. You say more noise in the wheel : i imagine more vibration and so more risk about nipple unscrew (sorry for my english). What do you think about it ?
Did he just say that if there's any noise of spokes rubbing against each other, tighten them? Even if it's out-of-the-saddle straining? I'm glad I've watched this video because I've recently bought a truing stand to straighten my wheel and put a bit more tension in the spokes, and one of the things I've noticed is that my hub freewheel isn't as loud as it was. I wonder if this has anything to do with what you said about how interlacing dampens noise.
So basically, with no difference between crossed and non crossed. I can laced my back wheel's drive side crossed and non drive side not crossed? I really appreciate your videos, a placed for learning in terms of bicycle. Thanks park tool and staffs. Cheers
All my bikes have interlaced wheels. My MTB is 2 cross, and my old (42 years) bike has 3 cross. With a pinion drive and a "straight" hub on the rear wheel; non-laced seems to be the best answer for a road bike. Would probably work on lacing in an Enviolo hub.
I have never heard of anyone litteraly welding spokes together. Since the heat would just cause tensioned spokes to elongate and i imagine its pretty much impossible to correctly tension spokes that are already welded together. Soldering spokes is something that people have done but I think would accomplish little except prevent a loose spoke from flying all over and possibly ruining the temper pf the spoke. But what about gluing spokes? Especially flat spokes have lots of surface area in contact and modern super- or epoxy glues can be really stiff( much stiffer than solder), actually adhere to steel and hardly produce any heat.
@@BenB21361 If you solder/epoxy spokes at the interlace point you are seriously hindering the ability to make tension adjustments on that pair of spokes...which means all of them if you do this to the entire wheel. The spoke will now pull against the stress riser at the solder/epoxy joint, not at the hub, and if you do move the rim you'll likely also tweak it along the other spoke in an unintended manner. Your point on possibly altering the temper/length/shape of the spoke also stands. Other than breaking a spoke (which still doesn't guarantee part of it isn't flopping around), there is no benefit to doing this. If you're doing it for the noise or to prevent flex, then Calvin and Truman's point stands and your wheel is out of tension.
Nice video and presentation. Interlacing has more to do with torque between the hub and the rim. A wheel with no interlacing suffers more on phase ripple between hub and rim during acceleration and or braking. That should cause relative more rubbing of spike on hub and nipple on rim.
I'm building a wheel with superboost 12x157. Would the wider hub make difference on interlacing or not? Seems like by not interlacing on a wide hub it would pull at a wider angle giving it more lateral stiffness? What do you think?
The hub width will allow for more consistent bracing angles from DS to NDS. The bracing angles are better too, so you would not gain any lateral stiffness from interlacing. It would actually make the outer spokes bracing angle worse and the inner spokes bracing angle better.
I interlaced a spoke when I replaced it out of habit, on a non-interlaced wheel, and that one spoke I replaced ended up pulling out of the rim, causing serious damage to the rim.
I tried building a rear wheel with a coaster brake and kept snapping spokes when i interlaced until i noticed the front wheel isn't interlaced. The bike was built in 1979 and lasted this long without snapping. I respoked the rear non interlaced and so far, so good. Who knows. I don't like the way i have to bend a spoke to interlace it. Maybe that puts too much stress on it...
In my touring bike the front wheel contains the hub Dynamo and is not interlaced but, the rear wheel with 9 speed derailleur is. Both 3-cross. On my e-bike both wheels are interlaced and 28" inch. On my bike trailer the wheel is interlaced and it's 16" inch. My spare front wheel is 28" inch and interlaced.
How do you guys at Park feel about the Shimano way of lacing differently on DS and NDS? I always do 3x interlaced with the trailing spokes on the outside of the last cross but I also see many wheels with the leading spokes on the outside. I believe Shimano says to do trailing on DS and leading on NDS of rear wheels.
For me, the interlacing step...ties it all together (sorry for that). Wheelbuilding is somewhat meditational, one step after another. Crude build, lacing, interlacing, tensioning..it's unique. Never even thought about doing it differently.
I have a rear wheel, size 451, that's laced x2 on drive side, interlaced and cross 1, non interlaced on the left side. It looks funny but works well. The front is x1, non interlaced.
as a relatively new wheel builder myself, it sounds like the crossing pattern is more important than anything else. What I take from this video is that interlacing is unnecessary and does not make a difference in durability for any discipline of riding. The biggest issue would be explaining the lack of interlace to somebody. Yes, no, way off?
I liked this video a lot, I might try straight lacing the front wheel on a bike in my shop. my main bike has Rolf Dolomite wheels so nothing here really applies 😆
yeah! i'z gonna ask abt paired spoke wheels! ..they're jst a single cross so there's really no "interlacing"... but which way are they spost to cross?? over or under?
@@ratman6417 i'm rolling on the Rolf Prima TDF58 12 spoke rear. (i'm trying to figure out how to attach an image to my msg here on RUclips to show how my spokes are laced, w/o any luck!) but w/ such a low count of spokes they're not really able to cross over more than jst one time from hub to rim..
I am curious about strait laced wheels. they seem to be more difficult to true. what are some advantages or disadvantages, and do you just true them like a normal wheel?
Radially laced wheels offer a lot of radial and lateral strength. What it lacks is rotational strength. So when the hub is driven as in when you are pedaling, the hub will have a tendency to "wind up". On modern bikes, the issue would be braking with disc brakes. Great for front rim brake bikes though.
@@MrSandperson0 When you are rolling along your momentum is going forward. When you use a disc brake to slow down your brakes try to prevent the hub from turning. Your momentum is still going forward and it's the spokes job to transfer the force from the hub to the rim. If the spokes are not crossed it's like trying to tip over a person with their feet together. When the spokes are crossed its like trying to push a person over with there feet far apart and very stable. A bit hard to describe in a youtube comment without visuals.
@@parktool I have a back wheel (20 inch, rim brakes, SRAM Dual Drive, so a "largish" hub) with interlacing on the drive side, and radially laced on the non-drive, it came like this from Dahon. It always seemed strange to me. Is there any benefit to that kind of lacing?
1:12 I don’t know about mountain bike wheels but with Bmx wheels you can have them 3 cross 4 cross and I’ve seen Radial front wheels on flatland bikes, and I’ve seen snowflake wheels back in the day on the front as well 👍🚲💨
Interlacing helps keep your wheel true. When the wheel encounters a load that is high enough, like hitting a big pothole, to completely unload the spoke, the interlaced spoke will keep it from going completely slack and having the nipple back off.
@@ericpmoss you can use threadlock, but that will make servicing the wheel harder than it needs to be. If you have high even tension, the nipples should not back off.
@@jrh2015 I see. It really depends on the load put on the wheel. Interlacing is not going to make a huge difference but it will make a difference. How much? I can't say. I never set up instrumentation to test it.
I would think that by interlacing the spokes the wheel will better survive a hard impact without popping a spoke so an ever so slightly softer ride although in-perceivable.
I was hoping someone with the reach of parktool could give me a more accurate answer. Maybe talk to some manufacturers or engineers as we are in the simulation age and bring some results
Clearly interlacing does not make a huge difference. But does it make a small difference? Under torsional loads (disc brake) does the interlacing disperse the load over two spokes instead of focusing it on one spoke, potentially preventing excess tension that could eventually crack a spoke hole at rhe rim? Premature fatigue on aluminum nipples? How about deflection under torsional loads, does the wheel move/deflect to one side more with non-interlaced wheels?
Rather than enjoyable heresay can you back it up with data? I thought the cross was so one spoke could take up its partners tension. Certainly we see the effect of the shared tension when building a wheel. Can you show us with all your tools? Simply use tensiometer on both sorts of heavily weighted wheels and see if theres any difference. I predict the interlaced will have lower peak spoke loads.
@@parktool How does that work? do they cross opposite flanges? Because otherwise if they are on the same side, I don't see how they can satisfy the criteria that you said "the last cross has to go under", since there is only one cross per spoke and every "under" physically corresponds to "over" on the other spoke.
It is very possible, it will take some defecting of the spokes to accomplish but it would not be too crazy to do on that wheel. It would simply be going under the spoke that it's currently going over.
how abt suma' the artsy designs done by twisting spokes arnd each other to create sum kinda kool designs?? seems like that's gonna create tension throughout the rim that'd cause warping or un-aligning of the trueness... looks kool but is it functional!!?!!...
If fluid is leaking at the hose fitting, it likely can be repaired. If it leaks at the pistons or the body, replace the brake. And also interlace your spokes.
To just claim that interlacing doesn't make a wheel stronger is somewhat pointless, isn't it? Without any measurements, how can you know? And while non interlaced wheels are available, they still seem to be the oddity. There is certainly a reason why the vast majority of wheels are built interlaced, and considering it has a pretty large impact to the manufacturing time, I'm hesitant to say it's just because some guy in England thought it was a good idea 100 years ago!
@@IverKnackerov Because there is no data. Why not claim that interlacing will make your bike 5 lbs lighter? Back up the claim, don't just say it doesn't matter!
The data is in the physics. As with much of cycling there is a ton of backyard engineering (which is fun but probably not always right). I suspect most choices like this one really come down to ascetics and a perception of quality.
@@airliftpilot Maybe. Or maybe not. I've certainly seen many instances of people "knowing" things that aren't true. But also of people discounting details that turned out to be critical. My point is just don't look at an interlaced spoke and say "nah", back it up somehow. I don't know if interlacing has a significant impact to the performance of a wheel, but based on the information presented in this video, neither does anybody else.
They suggest that it might be to "flatten" that side of the spokes and provide more clearance for the derailleur/chain. Rewatch the video and look for where they're demonstrating with the bicycle on the stand our left which had half interlaced and half not on its rear wheel.
'Wheel Builder' 2022: A system of spokes interlaced within spokes interlaced within spokes interlaced within one wheel... Interlaced! 'Baseline Rebuilding Test'
I own 2 bikes, one with shimano and the other with roval wheels, both J-spokes, both pairs have interlaced spokes. Bike 1 from 2002, bike 2 from 2014 and both aluminum. 23-622 and 25-622. I like both, on rough terrain the 25s have a nicer ride, on all "flat" roads the 23s gives a very happy buzzzzzzzz
First of all, we're talkig about pretty minute difference here. No way to actually feel this in your butt. But I think you missed a significant factor: there is more spring in an interlaced wheel, and there fore it gives a slightly easier ride, and.more importantly lower stress on the spokes and a longer life. This would give a longer life to the wheel and less liklihood of a failure when you're 50 miles from home. i have wheels I built 40 years ago that are sitll going strong. I have only one spoke failure, that was caused by chain contact, in all that time. And I use super thin DB spokes and weigh 210! Every wheei I built was interlaced. And I don't see any downside.
You've neglected to mention the only reason for existence of straight pull hubs and non-interlaced wheels: Machine lacing. That's the chief reason to change a piece of engineering that's been proven over a hundred years 🙂 Why fewer spokes, straight pull hubs and non-interlaced wheels? Cost and automation.
calvin is the man! i called park tool when rebuilding my i9 system wheel and he gave me some tips, inspired some confidence and they came together great and now i am building my own wheels. concurrently i also got 2 friends to build their first wheel by relaying some tips and inspiring similar confidence. there wheels turned out great, they ride them hard and they are still true. some real satisfaction riding your own wheels! i would love to watch a straight pull spoke just to see it, take some new tips, refresh memory
I was building wheels for myself back in the late '70s. Replacing steel rims with aluminum (Wow, what a difference!)
After trying different patterns, I settled on 3-cross, not interlaced. The initial tensioning of the spokes was made a lot easier because I could pluck the spokes and adjust by the pitch of the tone they made. Interlaced spokes could not give a clear tone.
Thanks to this video, after all these years I now no longer feel guilty about not having interlaced.
Rear wheels were heavily dished in those days. There was a noticeable difference in pitch between the one side and the other.
Very cool video. I bought Jobst Brandts book and never looked back. Built several wheelsets over the last 20 years. One of the best feelings of accomplishments in the world.
Same. The book told me everything I needed. Built two Sturmey Archer drum brake hubs trued against the frame with a clothes peg. And from reading I knew to go 2x on the big flanges even though people all over the internet insisted that more crosses = more better. Still had plenty of angle for a strong wheel, I rode them until the drum brakes wore through the hub around 35k miles. In only touched them once, when I got a truing stand, to raise the standard of true and dish a bit.
What did Jobst Brandt have to say about interlacing though?!
@@chrislukes9037
INTERLACED SPOKES
Spokes in a crossed pattern are usually interlaced at their last crossing before
reaching the rim. Spokes coming from between the flanges are laid over those
from outside the flanges. Interlaced spokes take up each other's slack during
severe radial loading and reduce the chance of spokes becoming loose. If spokes
become loose, their nipples can unscrew. Radial spokes cannot be interlaced and
therefore, lose alignment from road shock more easily. Interlacing also gives
more clearance between the spokes and the derailleur on rear wheels.
First of all, your channel is amazing. Thank you for sharing the knowledge, and amazing tools as well :) I found that interlacing reduces the vibration of the spokes, which helps the spoke nipples to hold the tension. I've had few radial laced wheels coming back for spoke re-tension, as during the bympy rides they tend to unwind themselves. Mostly front wheels though. Dt Swiss spoke freeze fixed the issue, but with interlacing it never happened.
As a newer wheel builder, this is fascinating information. I'd like to see you guys do one on the differences in cross patterns--2, 3, 4 cross, etc.
The build strength has more to do with the components and even tension. 4 cross is no stronger than 2 but 4x will likely have more spokes and shallower rim so sometimes it's just a necessity.
@@countspokeula539 geometry deny you, on wheel with 36 spokes , on same hub, same rim , on 4 cross, spokes are on longer distance-radius from axle, so spoke has longer lever so it can transfer more force/momentum for same spoke strength, but question is do you need that strength because you need 4 spokes more and all spokes are longer for some 4-6mm, or 32 spoke wheel will satisfy your need for wheel-strength
@@countspokeula539 it's safer for the hub to have 4x cross.
In my opinion interlacing makes the wheel stiff but at the same time more flexible to impact. It has kind of the same effect that two butted spokes have. Without interlacing all the possible damping is gone and all the stress comes right at the most vulnarable points like the J bend etc. For that reason I also think the amount of impact a wheel can withstand and absorb is greater with an interlaced wheel. So therefor I believe an interlaced wheel is more durable and is more fit for applications like mountainbikes, kids bikes and city bikes.
If you are on a straight road and choose for speed I think non interlacing is the application for you; more stiffness, more efficiency and less loss of unwanted loss of energy. And therefor I think that with the same amount of impact the interlaced wheel will last longer until the first spoke should brake.
Besides that, the stress, and therefor the wear on the J bend will probably be much greater than on the crossings of the spokes on the interlaced wheel. So the wear on that the point of the crossing can in my view be neglected. And no one has ever seen in their life a spoke that was broken on that point 😉
Gerd Schraner's book The Art of Wheel Building has been my go to book for every wheel I have ever built 3 cross interlaced will never let you down
Wheel building is currently beyond my comfort level. It seems to be much more art than science. What I can say is that every cross point in a spoked wheel, especially if the crossing spokes touch, makes that wheel harder to clean effectively.
it's really easy, I definitely recommend trying it. a lot of people are scared of tensioning, but if you just take another wheel and pinch two spikes together you'll know about how it should feel.
I see it the same way I see new tricks or riding techniques, scary at first but definitely worth knowing.
like any art, it requires practice. build up a simple wheelset and then undo it and do it again. you'll get comfortable in no time
@@ratman6417 I'm new at this game, and thus far everything I've learned about bike repair and refurb has been from need -- if it didn't need doing, I didn't learn how. So far I've not encountered a wheel that "needs" rebuilding. But someday, no doubt, I will.
That’s what wheel builders want you to believe. It’s 100% a science. You will find people discussing about what lube they use for nipples and spoke threads. Some of them will use line seed oil, some grease, some a mix of frog blood and cat pee…
But it’s actually extremely fan to build wheels. Just try once, you won’t regret it
@@rangersmith4652 it opens up a lot of options for cheaper solutions, want a cassette on your cheaper bike? easy, just buy a hub. I run a bike shop so I have to know a ton a stupid, weird skills and tricks. wheel building is a good one to know
My experience. Straight pull is noisy and stiff, but no stronger than other wheels. Soldered track wheels are strong and stiff as hell, but no one really wants that for a road or trail ride. Three cross (interlace) are just right, except for radial on a front road or track wheel. Interlace provides some damping.
Bontrager paradigm comp from a few years ago is straight pull+interlaced. The rubbing helped me figure out that the tension from the factory was too low.
Interesting! But I am still studying. I can see physics-based arguments for or against interlacing. Depending on the goal. Most rigid wheel? Most durable wheel? The tension cross is a spring. Do I want the spring or not?
Thanks … love the banter
As someone who builds wheels these videos are very informative
I remember picking up a used tubular wheelset in the 1970's specifically for the Phil hubs, which I couldn't afford new at the time. Every one of the 36 spokes on each wheel had been wrapped with thin wire and soldered at the interlace point. I thought of all the extra work that took, and I assumed that the previous owner was aiming for a stiffer wheelset, but who really knows?
At the time, there was a belief that tying and soldering spokes had a stiffness benefit. That theory has since been debunked - or at least proven to be negligible - although there is still a race day application for tying and soldering spokes: spoke retention. Especially with disc brakes these days where you can break a spoke and keep riding, tying and soldering spokes can prevent a broken spoke from flying around and getting caught in derailleurs, brake calipers, etc.
All that to say that it is a dying (if not dead) practice.
In the late 70's, early 80's tied and soldered wheels were common on the track.
All my wheels are built by myself. Been doing it for 15 years now. I actually started mixing in 2-Cross on the high tension side to increase the bracing angle and i usually never interlace 2-cross spokes unless they are bladed because the bend angle of the spoke would be too much. Otherwise, i always interlace because of the spring effect y’all mentioned.
So generally, 3-cross interlace on the low tension side and 2-cross non-interlace on the high tension side. I’ve never had an issue with derailleur clearance. Also, i wonder if pedaling energy is being lost on an interlaced rear wheel because of needing to load the “spring” (to straighten the drive spokes) with every pedal stroke. What are your thoughts?
When you mentioned older Schwinns I had look at my photos. I have a pair of 1963 Hollywoods that I was going to clean up. Sure enough they are not interlaced! those rims are still tough as nails.
I've built wheels both ways over the years I must admit to oiling the spokes to silence a cricketing noise. Those are the wheels that eventually broke spokes. The noise is there to let you know your spokes are probably too loose. I didn't realize that interlacing spokes increases spoke to derailleur clearance. I had no idea straight pull spokes were all in the same plane and would touch without interlacing. There is also the little controversy over which spokes should be the pulling ones. I had one track wheel laced asymmetric and wondered why. Interesting topic!
"There is also the little controversy over which spokes should be the pulling ones." Actually, I've heard arguments for both...what's the current consensus? And does it matter with disc hubs, which have stresses in both directions? I used to lace the pulling spokes on the outside, but now I lace the pulling spokes on the inside, and haven't really seen much of difference either way.
Really interesting. Thanks! I always took this for granted, I do think that there is benefit in how you align the outside leading spokes. Asymmetrical in the rear and symmetrical in the front makes a lot of sense with disk wheels.
i did a 20" wheel with a hub motor once, it took like 60mm spokes and they had to be 0 cross. rim was super wide too with large offset on the holes. stingray chopper was the bike
Your bike totorials are so explansive that a kid could fix a bike
And I’m that kid thank you so much
Great video, guys!
The two main reasons for interlacing have to do with rim compliance and whether the holes in the rim are drilled on center or off center to compensate for the side of the rim. Racing tires that were built in the '70s and '80s we're going for skinny high pressure and rims that couldn't necessarily handle a large impact and so to compensate for this the spokes were interlaced to allow some compliance. Modern rims typically have a much deeper dish and are not compliant enough for the given the spokes to even matter. Secondly as mentioned in the video the angle of the spoke and during the rim on some combinations tends to have too much of a bend at the nipple. Interlacing reduces this bend, and on rims where all of the holes were drilled dead center on the rim this mattered but modern rims have the holes drilled off center to align with which side of the flange the spoke will be going to, so another reason modern wheels do not get interlaced
Great vid guys. I literally built a wheel (2 cross) just recently without interlacing. A rear wheel on my fixie. No noticeable difference to me. Interlacing can make sense on the drive side rear wheel for more derailleur room?
This video just reinforces my resentment for ebikes with hub motors. There's no good way to lace those things so the manufacturers insist larger gauge spokes are the answer, which doesn't prevent failure, only makes it hold out until after the warranty period has expired. It also exacerbates other problems with the way those wheels are often built.
The closest I saw to a well built wheel with a hub motor was the later generation of BionX motors, and that's because they had a big motor between two small (conventionally sized) flanges and straight pull spokes. This allowed for tangential lacing with minimal deflection at the nipple.
What about twisted spokes? "Snowflakes" were so popular in the 90s. 🤩 I already drive them.
Very interesting, thanks for questioning what isn't solidified in science and practise. I have been teaching wheel building for years and always recommended interlacing, some wheels that were stripped and rebuilt without interlacing seemed difficult to true until corrected. Some questions I have based on that experience:
Does interlacing change the required spoke length? Are spoke calculators designed around interlacing (or perhaps even not!? They seem more theory based)?
Does it make a difference to perceived spoke tension versus actual force being applied to the flange and rim?
Spoke length formulas are not that precise, but in theory it would change a straight line. Don't change length for the interlace. The spoke head pulls just as much at the flange with either method.
@@parktool Great, thanks so much for the answer! All makes sense. Will have to build a set of non-interlaced wheels for myself to try out
I’m always looking at ways to improve my wheel building knowledge
I have maybe 10 recumbent trikes in my fleet. Being trikes they put enormous lateral loads on the wheels. The wheels (20 and 26") are built 1 cross, 2 cross, 1 cross on one side of the hub and radial on the other. Some interlaced, some not. The same brand and model trike has had different spoke patterns between production runs.
My conclusion is that if the wheel is built and tensioned properly, it doesn't matter if it's interlaced or not.
Hey, hi from France. You say more noise in the wheel : i imagine more vibration and so more risk about nipple unscrew (sorry for my english). What do you think about it ?
2:23 - This Wheel's on Fire - Bob Dylan
Did he just say that if there's any noise of spokes rubbing against each other, tighten them? Even if it's out-of-the-saddle straining? I'm glad I've watched this video because I've recently bought a truing stand to straighten my wheel and put a bit more tension in the spokes, and one of the things I've noticed is that my hub freewheel isn't as loud as it was. I wonder if this has anything to do with what you said about how interlacing dampens noise.
great video
When I was Racing in 70ies the holy grale we’re wheel that were interlaced and bound with cuper wire and then brazed this was used for track races
Good video.
So basically, with no difference between crossed and non crossed. I can laced my back wheel's drive side crossed and non drive side not crossed? I really appreciate your videos, a placed for learning in terms of bicycle. Thanks park tool and staffs. Cheers
All my bikes have interlaced wheels. My MTB is 2 cross, and my old (42 years) bike has 3 cross. With a pinion drive and a "straight" hub on the rear wheel; non-laced seems to be the best answer for a road bike. Would probably work on lacing in an Enviolo hub.
Just rebuilt a straight pull rear mtb wheel and decided to interlace it. I think I like it better.
My Bontrager wheels came interlaced. Honestly might redo them sometime, the rubbing does cause some wear.
What is the name of the bike hanging from the repair stand? It is gorgeous!
That is an Origin8 Hellcat.
Should talk about the twisted spokes!!!
Interesting topic. Advanced, too. Controversial some might say... Like welding spokes together.
I have never heard of anyone litteraly welding spokes together. Since the heat would just cause tensioned spokes to elongate and i imagine its pretty much impossible to correctly tension spokes that are already welded together. Soldering spokes is something that people have done but I think would accomplish little except prevent a loose spoke from flying all over and possibly ruining the temper pf the spoke. But what about gluing spokes? Especially flat spokes have lots of surface area in contact and modern super- or epoxy glues can be really stiff( much stiffer than solder), actually adhere to steel and hardly produce any heat.
@@BenB21361 I guess I meant soldering. I just googled what the difference is (welding vs brazing vs soldering). Thanks for correcting me.
@@BenB21361 If you solder/epoxy spokes at the interlace point you are seriously hindering the ability to make tension adjustments on that pair of spokes...which means all of them if you do this to the entire wheel. The spoke will now pull against the stress riser at the solder/epoxy joint, not at the hub, and if you do move the rim you'll likely also tweak it along the other spoke in an unintended manner. Your point on possibly altering the temper/length/shape of the spoke also stands. Other than breaking a spoke (which still doesn't guarantee part of it isn't flopping around), there is no benefit to doing this. If you're doing it for the noise or to prevent flex, then Calvin and Truman's point stands and your wheel is out of tension.
Nice video and presentation.
Interlacing has more to do with torque between the hub and the rim. A wheel with no interlacing suffers more on phase ripple between hub and rim during acceleration and or braking. That should cause relative more rubbing of spike on hub and nipple on rim.
So what about straight lacing used on the 100 plus spoked Lowrider wheel or "Race Laced" as seen on some BMX wheels?
I'm building a wheel with superboost 12x157. Would the wider hub make difference on interlacing or not? Seems like by not interlacing on a wide hub it would pull at a wider angle giving it more lateral stiffness? What do you think?
The hub width will allow for more consistent bracing angles from DS to NDS. The bracing angles are better too, so you would not gain any lateral stiffness from interlacing. It would actually make the outer spokes bracing angle worse and the inner spokes bracing angle better.
@@parktool Ok..Thanks! So would you recommend not interlacing that wheel then?
This video pointed out the ups and downs of both methods so that you can make up your own mind ;)
I interlaced a spoke when I replaced it out of habit, on a non-interlaced wheel, and that one spoke I replaced ended up pulling out of the rim, causing serious damage to the rim.
I tried building a rear wheel with a coaster brake and kept snapping spokes when i interlaced until i noticed the front wheel isn't interlaced. The bike was built in 1979 and lasted this long without snapping. I respoked the rear non interlaced and so far, so good. Who knows. I don't like the way i have to bend a spoke to interlace it. Maybe that puts too much stress on it...
In my touring bike the front wheel contains the hub Dynamo and is not interlaced but, the rear wheel with 9 speed derailleur is. Both 3-cross.
On my e-bike both wheels are interlaced and 28" inch.
On my bike trailer the wheel is interlaced and it's 16" inch.
My spare front wheel is 28" inch and interlaced.
How do you guys at Park feel about the Shimano way of lacing differently on DS and NDS? I always do 3x interlaced with the trailing spokes on the outside of the last cross but I also see many wheels with the leading spokes on the outside. I believe Shimano says to do trailing on DS and leading on NDS of rear wheels.
Good points. Our feeling is that it is important to connect the hub to the rim in every case. Failing to do this may result in a poorly wheel build.
For me, the interlacing step...ties it all together (sorry for that). Wheelbuilding is somewhat meditational, one step after another. Crude build, lacing, interlacing, tensioning..it's unique. Never even thought about doing it differently.
I have a rear wheel, size 451, that's laced x2 on drive side, interlaced and cross 1, non interlaced on the left side. It looks funny but works well. The front is x1, non interlaced.
as a relatively new wheel builder myself, it sounds like the crossing pattern is more important than anything else. What I take from this video is that interlacing is unnecessary and does not make a difference in durability for any discipline of riding. The biggest issue would be explaining the lack of interlace to somebody. Yes, no, way off?
What about the idea of tying and soldering an interlaced wheel... Old skool touring wheels sometimes had this?
I liked this video a lot, I might try straight lacing the front wheel on a bike in my shop. my main bike has Rolf Dolomite wheels so nothing here really applies 😆
yeah! i'z gonna ask abt paired spoke wheels! ..they're jst a single cross so there's really no "interlacing"... but which way are they spost to cross?? over or under?
@@KickTurner mine looks like it's under 1 over 2.
@@ratman6417 i'm rolling on the Rolf Prima TDF58 12 spoke rear. (i'm trying to figure out how to attach an image to my msg here on RUclips to show how my spokes are laced, w/o any luck!) but w/ such a low count of spokes they're not really able to cross over more than jst one time from hub to rim..
@@KickTurner mine are 26" Rolf Dolomite Disc. the spokes cross 3 times on those. it's an XC MTB wheelset so the pattern is very different from prima
have always interlaced spokes 2x & higher. My understanding is the contact at the final crossing helps reduce spoke twist and hence loosening.
I am curious about strait laced wheels. they seem to be more difficult to true. what are some advantages or disadvantages, and do you just true them like a normal wheel?
Radially laced wheels offer a lot of radial and lateral strength. What it lacks is rotational strength. So when the hub is driven as in when you are pedaling, the hub will have a tendency to "wind up". On modern bikes, the issue would be braking with disc brakes. Great for front rim brake bikes though.
@@parktool Can you expand on why it's not so good with disc and great for rim brake?
@@MrSandperson0 When you are rolling along your momentum is going forward. When you use a disc brake to slow down your brakes try to prevent the hub from turning. Your momentum is still going forward and it's the spokes job to transfer the force from the hub to the rim. If the spokes are not crossed it's like trying to tip over a person with their feet together. When the spokes are crossed its like trying to push a person over with there feet far apart and very stable. A bit hard to describe in a youtube comment without visuals.
@@parktool I have a back wheel (20 inch, rim brakes, SRAM Dual Drive, so a "largish" hub) with interlacing on the drive side, and radially laced on the non-drive, it came like this from Dahon. It always seemed strange to me. Is there any benefit to that kind of lacing?
Can you specify on spokes length on MTB rims? Like 27.5 rims uses what length of spokes for disc brake. Thank you❤
20", 24", 26", 27.5", the process is the same. See ruclips.net/video/kSFmvV3J99c/видео.htmlsi=cC0P8J8iziHQQ3zr
My thought is that interlacing increases the contact area of the spoke and hub flange, increasing strength of both
1:12 I don’t know about mountain bike wheels but with Bmx wheels you can have them 3 cross 4 cross and I’ve seen Radial front wheels on flatland bikes, and I’ve seen snowflake wheels back in the day on the front as well 👍🚲💨
Off topic maybe, but what about 28H vs 32H on a 29er rim? is it just for weight benefits?
My wheels are interlaced because I learnt how to lace wheels from you, and I have never had a broken spoke.
Interesting....I am considering building a wheel set for my Trek FX
What's parks opinion on campy's lacing patterns?
Interlacing helps keep your wheel true. When the wheel encounters a load that is high enough, like hitting a big pothole, to completely unload the spoke, the interlaced spoke will keep it from going completely slack and having the nipple back off.
Oh, that's an interesting point. I wonder if threadlock prevents the back-off as well.
@@ericpmoss you can use threadlock, but that will make servicing the wheel harder than it needs to be. If you have high even tension, the nipples should not back off.
@@jrh2015 what is doubtful?
@@jrh2015 I see. It really depends on the load put on the wheel. Interlacing is not going to make a huge difference but it will make a difference. How much? I can't say. I never set up instrumentation to test it.
The first pair of wheels that I laced (1976?) I did not know to interlace and they rode like sponge wheels.
What about tied and soldered spokes?
Nice your video 👌👌👌
mine's a 4-cross interlaced.
I would think that by interlacing the spokes the wheel will better survive a hard impact without popping a spoke so an ever so slightly softer ride although in-perceivable.
I was hoping someone with the reach of parktool could give me a more accurate answer. Maybe talk to some manufacturers or engineers as we are in the simulation age and bring some results
Sounds like the job of an engineer at a wheel building company. They all seem to disagree though. Makes this a fun space to talk theory in :)
Clearly interlacing does not make a huge difference. But does it make a small difference? Under torsional loads (disc brake) does the interlacing disperse the load over two spokes instead of focusing it on one spoke, potentially preventing excess tension that could eventually crack a spoke hole at rhe rim? Premature fatigue on aluminum nipples? How about deflection under torsional loads, does the wheel move/deflect to one side more with non-interlaced wheels?
Let's put it to the test! Sometimes the buddy system works. Sometimes it's not the greatest.
Rather than enjoyable heresay can you back it up with data? I thought the cross was so one spoke could take up its partners tension. Certainly we see the effect of the shared tension when building a wheel. Can you show us with all your tools? Simply use tensiometer on both sorts of heavily weighted wheels and see if theres any difference. I predict the interlaced will have lower peak spoke loads.
What about tied and soldered spokes
That's another video. It doesn't help the wheel but it has its uses.
… twist lace ?
Mine need spoke tension. Next time I’m
Building a wheel I’m not going to interlace
Bring back dimpled spoke bed?
T1000 rim I remember they were the coolest rim ever
5:24 Wouldn't it be impossible to interlace a 1 cross spoke pattern?
Impossible? No, we have seen it done....maybe not a good idea, but spokes will bend to it.
@@parktool How does that work? do they cross opposite flanges? Because otherwise if they are on the same side, I don't see how they can satisfy the criteria that you said "the last cross has to go under", since there is only one cross per spoke and every "under" physically corresponds to "over" on the other spoke.
It is very possible, it will take some defecting of the spokes to accomplish but it would not be too crazy to do on that wheel. It would simply be going under the spoke that it's currently going over.
how abt suma' the artsy designs done by twisting spokes arnd each other to create sum kinda kool designs?? seems like that's gonna create tension throughout the rim that'd cause warping or un-aligning of the trueness... looks kool but is it functional!!?!!...
How about raidal lacing...
i have seen people tie and solder the spokes at the interlace i guess then it might have some benefit.
I have a small problem . fluid is leaking from my brake caliper (shimano m315). it can be repaired
If fluid is leaking at the hose fitting, it likely can be repaired. If it leaks at the pistons or the body, replace the brake. And also interlace your spokes.
@@parktool thank you very much! by the way I already have interlace spokes! good job and thank you for your support! keep it up
To just claim that interlacing doesn't make a wheel stronger is somewhat pointless, isn't it? Without any measurements, how can you know? And while non interlaced wheels are available, they still seem to be the oddity. There is certainly a reason why the vast majority of wheels are built interlaced, and considering it has a pretty large impact to the manufacturing time, I'm hesitant to say it's just because some guy in England thought it was a good idea 100 years ago!
How is it pointless? It’s either true or false but not pointless. If there’s a reason, what is It then…?
@@IverKnackerov Because there is no data. Why not claim that interlacing will make your bike 5 lbs lighter? Back up the claim, don't just say it doesn't matter!
The data is in the physics. As with much of cycling there is a ton of backyard engineering (which is fun but probably not always right). I suspect most choices like this one really come down to ascetics and a perception of quality.
@@airliftpilot Maybe. Or maybe not. I've certainly seen many instances of people "knowing" things that aren't true. But also of people discounting details that turned out to be critical. My point is just don't look at an interlaced spoke and say "nah", back it up somehow. I don't know if interlacing has a significant impact to the performance of a wheel, but based on the information presented in this video, neither does anybody else.
what happens if I combine a shimano deore m6000 10s derailleur with a 9-speed cassette and a sram x5 9-speed shifter?
Give it a whirl and let us know! :)
What about no cross, no interlace? The only example off the top of my head are radial front wheels...
Subtitulo en español 🙏🙏🙏
I just purchased a new Canyon the cassette side is laced while the rotor side is not. Why?
They suggest that it might be to "flatten" that side of the spokes and provide more clearance for the derailleur/chain. Rewatch the video and look for where they're demonstrating with the bicycle on the stand our left which had half interlaced and half not on its rear wheel.
@@davidhbrown0us thanks David, I miss that.
Bill Mould Says the same as you. The only time it may make a difference is on the rear drive side. Structurally, it makes no difference.
'Wheel Builder' 2022:
A system of spokes interlaced within spokes interlaced within spokes interlaced within one wheel...
Interlaced!
'Baseline Rebuilding Test'
90% I build for personal use and for customers are 3x and interlaced. I’ve built wheels 2x,3x, and 4x
Interlaced front and rear on two bikes, radial front and interlaced rear on another.
Newman Evolution SL A-30 wheels...
28 spoke Straight pull hubs AND they ARE interlaced 😲
all interlaced on the wheels I built.
Can I have new frame🥺
I own 2 bikes, one with shimano and the other with roval wheels, both J-spokes, both pairs have interlaced spokes. Bike 1 from 2002, bike 2 from 2014 and both aluminum. 23-622 and 25-622. I like both, on rough terrain the 25s have a nicer ride, on all "flat" roads the 23s gives a very happy buzzzzzzzz
How can you interlace a radial laced wheel? 😜
Crows foot? Ahh good times. 😅
First of all, we're talkig about pretty minute difference here. No way to actually feel this in your butt. But I think you missed a significant factor: there is more spring in an interlaced wheel,
and there fore it gives a slightly easier ride, and.more importantly lower stress on the spokes and a longer life. This would give a longer life to the wheel and less liklihood of a failure when you're 50 miles from home. i have wheels I built 40 years ago that are sitll going strong. I have only one spoke failure, that was caused by chain contact, in all that time. And I use super thin DB spokes and weigh 210! Every wheei I built was interlaced. And I don't see any downside.
To tie and solder wheels is a question for six day riders. #STIFFNESS
💯👌
Hi, I just bought a Dub BB and GX crankset, how many spacers do I need? I have X Caliber 7 2021, Thanks.
You've neglected to mention the only reason for existence of straight pull hubs and non-interlaced wheels: Machine lacing.
That's the chief reason to change a piece of engineering that's been proven over a hundred years 🙂
Why fewer spokes, straight pull hubs and non-interlaced wheels? Cost and automation.