The UNDERGROUND Porsche market you never knew existed!
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- Опубликовано: 20 фев 2024
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Doug from @switchcars shares the reality of the Porsche market behind the scenes.
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If any of you have the pleasure of dealing with Doug, he's exactly like the video. Honest and straight up. Bought my gt3 from him last year, called him and told him I wanted a 997.2 gt3 and he said he had one. We made the deal and it was easy as can be.
Thanks for the kind words!
I’ve never met an “honest” dealer or broker ever
Can I have the GT3?
@@ihyln1That's just because dealers are people and people are dishonest. We have a saying in the car industry "buyers are liars". Welcome to humanity.
@@ihyln1 there’s good and bad dealers. When you find the good ones you’ll never have issues sending a wire to buy a car sight unseen and they don’t have issues sending a wire for a car you are selling. Reputation is all you ever have.
My dad was a Porsche owner and when he died I got to meet Jerry Seinfeld because he wanted to buy one of his cars.
That's how crazy Porsche community is.
Doug’s rule:
The car you are selling is worth less than you think
The car Doug is selling is worth more than you think
There is some truth to this, although it's only as a response to the general public's rule which is: Buyers: "The market is terrible and your car ain't worth jack." Sellers: "My car is the greatest thing ever, no lowballers I know what I got"
Buy or sell anything automotive related and tell me I'm wrong. :)
Agreed Doug
Thats just people man, get used to it
Your thing is shit and my thing is gold
Right, since the pandemic, everyone thinks their car is a 1 of 1 bc they have the titanium leaf springs instead of the iron ones and only I ticked that box when I bought this ‘87 Camaro. So now it’s worth $200k bc of the rarity.
Delusional ppl, I mean if you make less than $100 mill a year nothing you own is 1 of 1. Manny Koshbin can say it with his 1 of 1 Hermes Chiron for example.
The underground Buick market is more my speed. 😅
I feel like there's a different connotation to "underground" when you're talking about big-body American cars.
Oh.... too good for Chevys and Fords like the rest of us. 😂
Those are most likely the ones you'll find for dirt cheap may or may not have bullet holes or hidden compartments in the doors 😂
the "underground" Plymouth market, are actualy buried under ground
Underground Buick market, didn't know we were in the presence of Bill Gates money. 😅
You are describing the real-estate market. "Keep it secret to keep my value". When information is made public your talents and special abilities are diminished. Signed Travel Agents of the 1990's
I love the fact that absolutely wrecked unnafordable supercars are widely known as an "Ed Bolian Special" haha
Watching videos like this at my job is why I'll never make enough to where I could ever even own a Porsche in the first place.
Same here. I play NFS games free time.
You can do it. Start with same one I did Boxster 986.
a 987 cayman is a really good car tbh.
Definitely true with that attitude
What you mean is you'll never own a 911. There are lots of cheap porsches out there. And there's a reason they are too. If you want the badge, you can get it. If you want specifically a 911, I feel your struggle.
Underground Toyota Yaris market : AM I A JOKE TO YOU
“The market is crashing! Except for my cars.”
That’s not what he said.
The 917/30 mentioned sold for $3,000,000. Not sure why you said it did not. You are correct about the car not actually being raced by Mark Donohue and only being finished in that livery, but that was all public information and written in the catalog.
I was going to say that was a well known story about that car long before it even went up for sale.
The truth just ruins the story though... Hahaha
Hey Sam! As my memory serves me (which is rapidly failing), it went reserve not met at the auction that I attended. I watched it not sell. Maybe it sold after?
And it was not clear based on the auction announcements that it was not Mark Donohue’s race car. Granted I was not planning to bid on it so I did not do any research on it prior, but as an observer in the room during the live auction, one would have been led to believe it was Donohue’s race car.
All 997.2 Coupe Manuals 📈
Seeing this 5:06 GT2RS Sonderwunsch painted in Urban Bamboo Chromoflair in person at Dream Ride was surreal, the color shouldn't even exist it's so unique
Daaang I didnt even catch that, I wasnt looking closely enough. I thought that was the standard silver with some exposure/white balance/whatever. But looking at it again it's beautiful.
Ultimately, the market decides. Anyone can build a case for some car being more / less in value, however the true cost is whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
That was very informational. Thanks, Stew!
Thats true for every used market. The best deals are NOT advertised anywhere. They are word of mouth. They are knocking on the door and asking about the boat or whatever else in the backyard. The internet only hosts the highest priced examples. The real market is always less than what the internet implies.
Private transactions will always by a mystery to most people. Bat and RM results are still amazingly accurate for the bulk of the market. Not surprising that people want rare colors as that is what will always sell well. Rarity is king…for any collectable car. The whole car market overall is still cooling. Even GT3 etc are not immune to economics. It just takes longer to impact Porsche owners as they have the disposable income to buy investment grade cars in cash. Don’t have to care about interest rates
Love the information and the set up thank you for the video.
One thing I noticed he never mentions Cars and Bids as an auction site. He will rattle off a bunch of different ones but will not mention the newest one on the block.
Between this and switchcast, it’s Tabbutt Wednesday!!
I really, really want a 997.2 GT3. Back in 2018 when I bought my 987.2, I could find a nice one for around $100k, thought to myself ok, in 4 years I’ll have the Cayman paid off and I can afford to upgrade into my dream car. Then COVID prices happened and that same car went to $150k in 2022, just out of reach again. I know they’ve only continued to increase since so it’s just keeps staying slightly out of reach. Damnit 😢
At this point it might be cheaper to be dumb and do a Mezger swap and make the 987 GT4 Porsche refused to make at the time.
We need more Doug car stories!!
It has taken me way longer than it should have to realize that affording the car is the easy part. Paying for maintenance is a whole other matter, and that’s why I own a Corvette lol!
I'm here for a beater porsche!
Anyone can afford to buy a Porsche. Can you afford to own a Porsche?
Same here
Doug is the very knowledgeable guy. Thanks for the info Doug!
Any insight on spec besides exterior color?.. besides buckets and carbons
Thanks for the advice Doug.
One of the aqua blue GT3 run around North Atl towards "the mountains" and I was lucky enough to see it one day while its owner and another high end sports car were out goofing off. The exhaust note was like a siren song.
The person selling their car on the public market clearly doesn't have access to the "underground" market. Thus, they know what their car is worth in the public world because that's where they're selling it. The "underground" market is essentially irrelevant to them because they don't have access to it. Ironically, in MY world (i.e. the driver quality air cooled world) the cars that sell on places like BaT are so stupid overpriced compared to the private transactions I'm familiar with. It's literally the opposite of what he's saying...
This whole thing is a sales pitch to attract 2 types of people: those who want to sell their GT3’s for top dollar, and those with a lot of money who will pay a premium for an exact specification of Porsche. He will gladly be the middle man for connecting these two people.
Very cool episode... small Question What is ...Paint to Sample? Haven't heard this term before
I drive blue, red and green cars, and blue and purple motorcycles. Life is boring without color. My wife’s van is white.
I enjoy listening to this man speek, to the podcast i go!
I'm just a dumb construction worker so I don't know much about the collector car market, other than what I see on vinwiki or other car related channels. However, I am in the workforce where pickup trucks are a necessity. How can ford, chevy or dodge dealership justify charging $120,000 for a 1 ton pickup? Chip shortages, for instance, does not justify a $50-60k mark up over window sticker for a(already high priced) $75,000 work truck?! Even a basic manual everything, except transmission, is almost unobtainable at $40k+. Do these dealerships not understand that without the American workers being able to get a decent truck to get the job done, there won't be a force to do anything? I REALLY hope the average person remembers this bullxxxx and makes them eat every $150k truck on their lot.
Sorry, rant over. Carry on
And yet I still see a ton of lifted f-250 platinums driving around.
You're conflating two different parts of the market. Basic work trucks can still be had for reasonable prices, especially in fleet deals. Luxury pickup trucks, those expensive ones you're complaining about, are the American luxury car. You could buy a Mercedes-Benz E-Class that can carry your family in comfort or you could buy a Ford F-150 Platinum that can carry your family in comfort plus tow your boat plus carry your largest purchases home. They can justify charging that much because buyers are willing to pay.
because those companies don't really make cars so much, and trucks are in fashion..... so buy used.
Used to work as a lot attendant for a Porsche BMW AUDI center… owner has a 71 RSR 1/6 I believe and a white 4.0.. I was told back in 2016 it was insured for over $650k.. and an orange an black 2007 GT3RS insured at $200k that was almost 10 years ago now.. can’t imagine how much they are now
Before the video started i said, “this better be Doug Tabbutt i swear to god”. Was not disappointed.
$1m for a modern Porsche. I’ll never be that lucky. I could only imagine
I think Doug mistook the 4.0 for the 3.8 in a short segment here. 1m for a 911 is wildddddd
Hey, i didnt finish the audi video, bring it back!
Why yall private the audi video?
friends covering friends
@@Forseenlife basically
My first 911 was a burgundy targa with a whale tail. Loved it and ended up selling it for a very unique 911SC that was Paxton supercharged.
If I ever get rich af I would order two Porsche 911’s and have them painted Volvo T-Gul and Saffron
What kind of application are these screenshot from the auction from?
These markets exist in all varieties of sales. I was a harley dealer in the late 90s. I have tons of these stories
Wow. Two times dichotomy and one anomaly in a Vinwiki vid!
I remember when Ed and John Temerian always said that manual LP640 is already 1 million dollars car and every collectors wants this model, and then open auction on Carsandbids LP640 blue manual for sale and sold for 710k to... Ed.
I’ve been on the list at dealer for GT3rs for several years …we are not special in Canada… my sister is a track person as well and has 2 gt4’s /2018 and 2023 ..
Being a car guy but dealing in the world of firearms used by the Germans and Japanese in WW2. I’ve found MANY similarities between the car dealing world and the collector firearm world.
The collector car market is a store of wealth for rich people (like art, watches....)
These cars rarely store wealth. 99.99% of cars won’t beat the market over 10 years.
@@edgesince84it’s not about beating the market, it’s about getting out of the market. These types of cars, and watches, hold value even in a bad economy.
Bring back the audi video! Im working with an audi dealership in AZ to figure out how I can get one! 😂
so much knowledge
Just recently picked up my cheap Porsche and oh do I love it
define cheap
@@ashp5406 40k for the 981 with PDK transmission pretty cheap
A rising tide lifts all ships,,,except for the leaky ones. No problem. Ed is bringing his patch kit....
I wish they would match the photos to what’s being said.
Green is the new gray. Calling it now
I always enjoy a good Doug story.👍
A show of hands - Who would you trust more, car brokers or auction houses.
Trick question - Neither! Doug you are a great storyteller.
Dude, the first rule of Underground Porsche Market is you don’t talk about Underground Porsche Market!🤫
I ruined some more test drive cars on the track. Thanks for the advice.
Vin wiki rocks!
Private sellers this time.
I believe you go further when you have both full pedigree / documentation / and story that backs the vehicle.
As long as the premier financial boys still have credit for everyone the market will stay insane.
Won't last much longer though.....
Why did the video get removed just now? I was on the middle of it 😢
On December 26, 2023 I won an auction on bring a trailer. I got a 1986 Saab 900 spg for the princely sum of $1001. Did I crash the market?
I just got a 98 986 Boxster does that count
I'm more in the segment of vehicle buyer for stuff that should be under the ground, or at least one with it once more, so...
I find the paint-to-sample values fascinating. If the cars are bringing double their typical production counterparts, why doesn't everyone ordering a higher end model order it as paint to sample? Do you have to know a guy who knows a guy to be able to order one that way?
50k option now wait 20 years
@@danielkerkotchian I'm seeing numbers a lot closer to $10k than $50k. Let's assume it's somewhere in the middle. If it literally doubles the value of an already obscenely collectible car, it seems like a good deal?
Perhaps this just exists in a world that I will never understand where someone would go through the trouble and expense to have the car painted _just_ exactly the way they want it, then sell it a year or two later?
Was genuinely thinking this was gonna start in John Ficarra’s basement
market is falling right now even for blue chip supercars and exotics. and you can see it not only because of BAT results, but also on results of biggest resent auctions around the world. too many overpriced and overhyped cars on market. Especially Countach Murcielago etc. even Zonda market are falling quickly right now and many examples are for sale right now. Was impossible to buy 2 years ago
I have a question about the Porsche colors. You said you can rank them, but I'm mostly curious about that purple color... I've only noticed one metallic purple color, maybe there's multiple but are they highly desirable or does that mean the one I want to get is cheaper?
There are many purple Porsche colors. Check out rennbow for more information. Any "odd" color now is highly desirable and trendy.
Have 1997 993 turbo silver colour with blue interior with a little less than 50k miles …I’m in Canada but it’s a US car …have2018 GT2RS running on Hoosiers R7’s, only use car on track … but must say not even 1-4 seconds faster on lap times than C6 ZR1 or R35 GTR track edition with aero improvements race seats and belts ,and 2007 wrx sti full race car 620hp …run all cars on Hoosiers …only changes on corvette are obviously the seats, seat belts and steering wheel…the Subaru is the 1 second difference and GTR the 4…have all original parts and 2 other 911’s …1970 and 77 both have been stripped and track ready ..yes still have original parts ..the car with the highest mileage is the 993..
I knew Porsche owners were different when my buddy had a 991 gt2rs that he couldn't sell because he didn't have the original seats in the car. sat on it for a few months then basically gave it away lol
Buick seats are the correct upgrade
Doug,
Question for ya. What’s a reasonable valuation of a 1970’s Fiat Spider? The sales info is all over the place, probably due to condition.
Base the number on a really nice driver. Think 8 or 9/10th s car. Not exactly a trailer Queen.
What happened to the leasing Audi video
Crazy Prices ! The Carerra Gt was like $500,000 or something when it was new 20 years ago , unless you have money to burn , why would you pay 2 mil today ¿ sounds crazy to me , I would rather Buy a Lexus LFA similar engine experience for half the price
LFA has an automatic transmission.
Not the same experience
I’m a simple man. I see a Doug video, I click and watch
What you are describing is the difference between the science of car sales and the art of car sales. Clients/customers may be able to lock down the science pretty well, but without experience they can’t have the art, as you do with all of your sales experience.
Honestly this guy's a prick
Very well stated. I could have just said that and saved everyone 15 minutes of their time. :)
@@switchcars Naw, it’s always great to hear your stories and views about the industry.
So I guess I am just late into the game. As a person in their twenties whos career is just beginning to take off, I fear that I will be priced out of the market completely by the time I am ready to purchase even a Bolian spec gt3. Anyone feeling the same?
Right, since the pandemic, everyone thinks their car is a 1 of 1 bc they have the titanium leaf springs instead of the iron ones and only I ticked that box when I bought this ‘87 Camaro. So now it’s worth $200k bc of the rarity.
Delusional ppl, I mean if you make less than $100 mill a year nothing you own is 1 of 1. Manny Koshbin can say it with his 1 of 1 Hermes Chiron for example.
Lol i want a beater 1970-1980s 911. Sc is my dreamm car
I just moved to Ohio and I've seen a couple cars in his site I've wanted to check out but my Oregon bank won't finance a used car in Ohio🤦🏻♂️
What does “paint to sample” mean in the context of the Porsche 911’s he’s talking about?
A $14k option that allows you to choose a non-standard color from the Porsche library.
Create the value you want to see in the world. If that dont work, there's always youtube.
What i dont u derstand is how can you not track the registration. Even if sold in the underground
I was halfway through your lease hack video when it got privated 😭
Who was the host?
Same here I was at the part where the salesman gave out his personal cell phone number.
I could fully watch it, but when i tried to put in a comment afterwards the video was gone 😢
@@JasonVEliteExpeditethe guy that put the lease deal together for the EV Audi’s Ed bought in Birmingham.
@@iamscottmitchellprobably got absolutely slammed with requests from the viewers
Colors and options aside recent public auction prices are valid because they exist in this hidden secondary market you are talking about. So as far as someone saying they know what their car is worth if they have an apples to apples comparison of the same car with none of the rarity/desirability situations you are referring to. Those results would represent at least the the lower end. Again considering the cars are equal. These private personal sales would make no financial sense if they ended up paying more than the price they could buy it for in some public market.
Again, given the same car.
So when I say I know what my car is worth and I’m comparing it to a similarly desirable specification I would be talking about approximately the minimum likely value.
Where I think you and your relationships and knowledge comes into play is by knowing collectors and being able to quickly connect a seller with buyer at near top dollar without the hassle or wait of an auction.
you added nothing with this comment. guy said all that verbatim.
Who doesn't know about private sales?
That's cool. But, imagine a camry with a v6. Shewee boi. 👊😆
more of doug! :)
ED Bolian spec ahahah
This couldn’t be more true
I just sold my 997 gt2 privately on a phone call to a well known car bud in Miami
It’ll never hit the market as you said on BAT and I’ve made comments on other 997gt2’s that didn’t meet expectations that it’s not indicative of the market and private cars are selling and transactions are happening that people have no clue about
Thx for shedding light on this
What is your favorite rare Porsche?
Anything that is Zanzibar red.
911R
934s are very cool but I also love the look and dynamic of a 930 flatnose.
I like beat up examples that I can build into what I like. albeit, I would never say no to a 959.....
930 Turbo. Im waiting for the kit car 930 that uses a 986 donor car as the base. Only way I’ll ever be able to afford one.
Doug you never spoke about the value of the blue ball cars. Unless they are one in the same as the blue-chip cars?
What does paint to sample mean?
Just fancy auto talk for choosing whatever color paint you want on your car outside of the standard manufacturer’s color palette
I putting Doug in my will to sell my 3 RS if I die lol
Haha thanks Bryan. I hope I'm retired long before that time comes.
You mean to tell me there's a secret society? What have I been doing wrong with my life....
My name is Caimen… I just want a Cayman
It's garage art.
Sign me up for a Daily Porsche !!
Briefly translated, I'm a dealer in my stuff's worth a lot. You're not so your stuff is worth nothing so sell it to sell it to me cheap. Because I know about private deals that Rich guys are making... Yet I'm humble and not an expert ok. So see I'm human and you can trust my calls on all of this. Because if I know about little nuances in the industry. Oops... The car I bought from you for nothing I'm now selling for a million dollars more now than I gave you? Remember I said I'm not an all-knowing expert so that was just a weird freak of nature. Because your car is burgundy now and people are all the sudden changing their minds and liking it. And again you can't go by what people are selling them for on Barrett-Jackson or everywhere in the public forum. That's all BS. I'ma Dealer... Trust me
Thats nice, except the 'unknown' market doesn't really factor into the 'known' market if all the players in the known market are unaware of the unknown market.
Why are the photos of cars shown completely random and have nothing to do with what is talked about at that moment?
Doug is great. Love the content
What is paint to sample cars
Some higher end cars you can pay the manufacturer to have the car semi-customized. Usually there’s a fee ($10k+) to just be in the program and then a cost for each thing like paint color, stitching, etc. It makes the car a bit more “personalized” or “special” and sometimes re-sell for a lot more $$$.
Actualy in porsche world that is a name for a car in “non standard” color.
For example,lets say you have around 15 standard colors for a 911. Few of them are no-cost, few are metalic ones for around 1000 usd and few more are “special” colors for around 2500 usd.
But if you pay 10 000 usd you can select one of the “paint to sample” colors, so you dont have to chose from just those 15 that are “standard” but from a more than a hundred colors that are offered by “paint to sample” program.