Even with the ones I added in while writing I still technically missed a couple since there are some of the absolutely crack-pipe walker tanks with launchers for them. Might have to do a top 10 craziest napkinwaffe model kits someday.
You should dig deeper into this rabbit hole of fake scale model panzers, might I recommend the fist of war series of models by modelcollect through an excellent model site called scalemates which archives most if not all scale models that you could search for yourself.
Before I even watch this : I love fake tank Fridays . Also : WW1 German Oberschlesien tanks. It's gone a bit quiet recently but it's still out there, faking it's fake booty .
Just a little fun fact, the Rheintochter was actually tested with a simple infrared seeker and a proximity fuse of varying design. The early heat seeking device was pretty similar to the first sidewinder seekers in that it had one infrared sensitive cristal of the viewing field was interupted by a spinning disc with a certain pattern. In this regard, the germans were actually pretty far ahead of the allies. People always seem to get excited about the german ww2 research for the wrong reasons. There were incredible developements, they just weren't big machines but rather the small subsystems.
Wow didn't realise that there were "working" SAM systems being developed during ww2, I knew that the technology was possible at the time but in Germany it certainly is improbable.
There were alot of promising SAM designs that were tested during the war or shortly after. Rheintochter was very influential for soviet SAM design while Wasserfall influenced early American SAM
@@dave_sic1365 The Wasserfall was the only one that could've bveen effective, since it utilised a liquid explosive, to produce a 200 ft blast radius. A sinlge rocket could've brought down an entire formation.
The only reason people claim the Nazi wonder weapons were lightyears ahead is because they wound up being desperate enough to use them in combat despite serious flaws.
Because of those flaws, they were mostly ineffective and just cost Germany a ton of money and resources...so they probably helped the Allies more (and the "wonder weapons" tech was used after the war, such as in the space race.)
@@NK-qn6pq Wouldn't that mean that this tech was actually ahead? Why would the US use technology from their former enemies if they have superior or at least on par tech of theirs? So you also have Operation Paperclip which you mentioned, and that already makes for at least two reasons for people to claim some wonder weapon technologies were very ahead for their time. When you see comments starting with "The only reason..." nowadays you almost certainly know they will be untrue to some degree.
@@TheIzroda depends, remember these tech that was ahead of the time was deemed obsolete after 1950. Especially with the V1 rockets and V2. They made a better and efficient designs than those two
@@joshuajoaquin5099 both the Soviets, Americans, and British (and arguably the French) used captured German equipment and engineering data as a basis for future developments, combining it with their own experiments where appropriate. For example the Scud missiles used into the 1990s by many countries (and missiles based on them to this date) are direct derivatives of the V-2. Early Soviet SAMs like the SA-2 which was quite effective in Vietnam were direct descendants of the German WW2 designs the Soviets took back home. The early Soviet jet fighters were based on German engineering by Focke Wulf (but using copied British engines eventually).
@@joshuajoaquin5099 Yes but the tech that replaced it was also developed from improvements and upgrades of said WWII tech. This wasn't some technological vacuum where something absolutely new and developed in parallel suddenly replaced those technologies in 1950, so yes later more advanced tech owes its advancement to earlier tech which in this case includes even "wonder weapon" technology. Take a look for example at the Regulus I missile, which was developed during the late 40s and early 50s and was in service to the mid 60s. That's almost like saying Ford Model T was deemed obsolete by the early 2000s. Sure, but were would car manufacturing be without it?
Nice video. Tell us more about the experimental "assault drones" the U.S. used in the Pacific Theater. The picture you had onscreen was a first-time-seeing moment for me.
As far as I know those were modified bombers that carried a live TV camera set and were flown remotely by experienced pilots. The Americans flew at least one attack in Europe against the V3 England Geschütz in mimoyecques
@@oco8783 Quite right. I am familiar with Archimedes. Thank you for the link. This is new information for me. I could tell from the photo that it had to be early in the U.S. participation of W.W. II because of the red dot in the national insignia.
@@pauld6967 I would highly recommend viewing historian Mark Felton's video on the US drones, it's very fascinating and arguably an early version of a precision guided munition. There's also arguments that say it might be what spurred the Japanese to adopt kamikaze attacks.
while the tank mounted versions are totally fake, this was the perfect excuse to learn about those german missiles which I actually had no idea existed, good video as always
There were more designs as well. They had essentially heat seeking missiles at the end but could put many together (as with any such technology, any successes were marked as "top secret" and not allowed to be discussed.. this is why we never have data on how effective things were so assume the less you know the more it scared Allied leadership).
I remember first time seeing this specific missle carrier in 2007 rts warfront turning point. It had all of crazy ww2 gizmos, like german ultrasonic tanks and piloted mechs, usser freeze and subterranian tanks or allies force field generators and helicopters.
Thanks for pointing out how Germany wasn't the only nation testing guided missiles during the 40s, I was particularly impressed with American proto-cruise missiles when I stumbled across them.
it should be said more often that Germany wasn't the only one pushing science forward, but they were ahead in a lot of fields and had more numerous and successful designs. its also very true to say each nation excelled in different technologies, like the US with the Atomic bomb, they were decades ahead of Germany and its arguable that the German method may not have been possible at that time.
@@Archmagos_Faber The Germans were only "more successful" because they were so incredibly desperate. They were at the point of throwing money & resources to anything with even the smallest hope of success. Very much a "throw it at the wall, see what sticks" form of R&D. Due to that, they have far more successes.
@@Archmagos_Fabere US had functioning remote controlled combat drones. It’s as others have said, generally other countries weren’t as desperate as Nazi germany. Idk it’s weirdly frustrating to me because it’s almost like making a lie out of the truth. They did have some innovations, but the interest was because it was crazy nazi technology not because it was the best and 90 years ahead of its time
That's something straight up from Road to 56 mod for Hoi4. Except in that case it's Ajax SAM and "superheavy" in the eyes of Rt56 is something like late heavy tanks ie IS-7, M103, Conqueror, Object 279, T-10M, AMX-50. So it's not hard to imagine such chassis being used to carry the launcher for the battery. But that's specifically late 50's tech, not early 40's:D How do people come up with such things and more importantly how do they sell other people on such ideas?0_o
I do think that someone looked at Cuban S-75 and S-125 TELs based off the T-55 tank and went 'Wow these look interesting, now if only the Wehrmacht had its own version. 🤔'
In defense of ModelCollect, it was a rather small company and these were meant to be what-if that were released along literally walking mechs, twin barrel tanks and other sci-fi reaching stuff. They are neat for those who find it neat, not to be taken seriously.
I have nothing against the models themselves I just like to explain the reality behind them as often it isn't done by the companies themselves which can confuse people with less knowledge on the subject.
It’s a shame that Modelcollect discontinued many of their historical models in 1/72 *cough T-65BM cough* in favor of their wacky “Fist of War” range. Maybe you could take a look at their “walking tanks” next!
honestly, I don't know who will buy those wacky fist of war kit. They looks sci-fi but that's about it. Still no idea why don't they continue their modern armor kit. It seemed pretty successful.
I wish the companies who make these kits would expand into doing other countries, WW2 Germany absolutely dominates the model kit scene, would love to some of the crazy DPRK weapons actually built for instance.
1:40 - 2:30 Was listening to this while playing another game and I had to double check I wasn't watching a hoi4 video with that iconic BGM (Specifically Bring Forth the Tanks). Great video as always man!
Soviet Union had a prototype that mounted S-25 Berkut (SA-1 Guild) missile on IS-3 chassis, maybe the model makers got the idea from there? Some of the German engineers that developed the Rheindochter were also involved in S-25 Berkut during their extended "visit" in Soviet Union.
Depends. Those early missiles were usually guided by the "zieldeckungsverfahren" or target overlaying procedure. The missile would carry a flare and the aiming personnel would move the light dot over the shilouette of the target and hold it there. the missile would be detonated by some kind of proximity Fuze. Germany had an acoustic proximity Fuze and a radar proximity Fuze. Alternatively it could be detonated by impact or command from an experienced crew.
@Mauricio Pittavino exactly. The "Kranich" acoustic proximity Fuze consisted of a thin piece of sheet metal that was vibrating. It's resonance frequency was tuned to the b17s engines. Resonating vibrations made it bend so far that an electrical connection was made with its container which fired the initial detonator. I'm unsure if they would have used an acoustic Fuze. Radar fuzes seem to be more likely to me.
To be fair, the US and USSR SAM projects were based on the german "Wasserfall" missile. While we are at it, want to guess who had the first mass producable transport helicopter in service?
War Front: Turning Point was a very fun old alternate history RTS game. I would definitely recommend giving it a try. Can't say I remember much about the story though.
I loved that game! Story was that Hitler was overthrown/assassinated before the game, and an unnammed more successful Fuhrer almost conquered Britain before you overthrow him yourself. Then as Germany and the UK/US are about to make peace, the Soviets attack both and they have to team up to take them down. Hilariously cheesy characters but the Allied/Axis real secret projects used were cool and the original cryo tech they gave the Soviets was nice too. Would have been cool to put in an expansion to fit in the Japanese but that would've probably needed to fit in naval combat...
@@wolfehoffmann2697 I think that was the successor Fuhrer though. The only reason is I remember in the briefing before the mission Hellman says that the Fuhrer is "even worse than the last one," or something to that effect. I took that as an implication that Hitler had been overthrown before the story starts.
For Wasserfall (the smaller SAM derivative of the V-2) a sound proximity fuze was proposed, same as for the Ruhrstahl X-4 air to air missile. Wether that would have worked I have no idea. I guess with the guidance methods at the time a Radar VT fuze was a must, and that was one of the reasons german SAMs didn't see any mass combat use. Edit: Apparently a proximity fuze called "Gerät Kugelblitz" (device "ball lightning") was intended for Rheintochter but I couldn't find any sources online on how that was supposed to work. Some claim radar proximity, others comparative distance from the ground (basically two rangefinders measuring range of target and missile detonating the missile remotely when the distances matched)
When I was at my University in Germany …. 1995 …. Long time ago I know 😊 …. I had a, at that time already retired, Prof. who did sometimes help out as there was a shortage of teachers. He pretty much only talked about his time when he was working on the “waterfall” project (surface to air missile) during WW2. I remember that we all had been fascinated about his stories. It’s not often that you have somebody from that time talking to you in real. As far as I know the American Hermes A 1 was based on the Wasserfall …..
I refer you to a recent book by Steve Zaloga on German rocket systems. In it, he states that the idea of using Rheintochter missiles on Flak 41 crucifiom mounts in combat is pure speculative nonsense. There were initial launch tests done with cruciform mounts, yes, BUT, right from the word 'go' they were never intended for combat, only testing of the missile itself, without added time and expense. Indeed, the R-1 was deemed a no-go during testing and only the R-3P was progressed to further testing and possible production approval. That version was always intended to be launched from a hardened static emplacement - similar to the simplified mock-up you showed in one of the photos in this video. In short, R-1 tested on a crucifix, out of expediency only, missile rejected, R-3P then tested BUT the program then cancelled outright before hardened static launchers designs had been finalized. Any idea of mobile Rheintochter missiles on tanks would also be farcical on the basis of the support vehicles and crews needed to transport, load, fuel, aim, fire, track targets and missiles, as well as defend them on the ground... It'd be like duplicating the V2 program in terms of logistical support, something Germany was in no place to do with dwindling resources.
Reintochter wasnt Volkhov. It was a mostly self contained system that could reasonably be made mobile, and would have to be if it was in fact utilized. The tests show transportable launch rigs were viable and common sense tells they were necesseary. It is of course known the system wasnt used in combat, but that was never part of the question.
It's worth mentioning that America and Britain's rocket and SAM efforts in the 1940s and 1950s were generally as, if not more successful than Germany's, simply because they did not rush them through development in order to meet some crackpot deadline to 'win the war'. America's missile projects in particular did pretty well, such as the Little Joe in 1945 and Lark in 1946, aswell as the British Fairy Stooge in 1946/47.
How convenient that we got a massive boost in all these areas just after the war. We also went from being 5 years to atomic bomb production to right now through magic because we're magical. No other reason.
Warfront Turning Point is home to my all time favourite comic-Nazi quote of all time: "Ah, there it is, London! I wonder how the city will be called in German."
no... only their weapons looked weird. b29 is hyper advanced weapon and its development did cost more than atomic bomb one. oh wait there is another hyper advanced weapon.
Germany struggled to produce normal tanks. They switched to the more simple to manufacture turretless defensive vehicles. They could not afford themselves such fantastic ideas
It has been YEARS since I have seen anyone talk about that game. Also the pacific carrier part of the campaign was annoying for my as the wild cats were very mid. The quad AA section was fun for me though.
Gloucester Meteors were starting their introduction to the RAF in July 1944, weren’t they? Intercepting V1s over the Channel before the V2s rolled around. Iirc there was at least one battle over Belgium with Meteor pilots hoping to see some Me 262s scrambled but they never did. They mostly did nighttime and ground attacks into 1945 being careful not to fly too far into occupied territory in case they got shot down and reverse-engineered. They got replaced by Hawker Hunters and Supermarine Swifts as the 40’s rolled into the 50’s and we’re pushed into training and reconnaissance roles replacing the older Spitfires and Mosquitoes.
What are you talking about? That was a real proposal. "Hey, what if we put those really expensive guided missiles on a tank to shoot down bombers?" "Hans, you're an idiot" That was the proposal.
The rockets were real enough, but the manual guidance system would be iffy, even if they were allowed to work. Remember that radio control was in it's infancy and guiding a rocket to a bomber from the ground would be really difficult at best. An onboard terminal guidance system would be required, but they didn't really exist either (barring Project Pigeon). On top of that, at this stage in the war any German radio signals were being jammed to hell - these would have been no different.
From what I have seen on TV documentaries, the Germans had developed mass manufactured surface to air missiles that were Essentially cheaply made pipes fitted with high explosives and a small rocket engine that could be fired by the dozens at Allied bomber formations once they were detected by German radar. However, Hitler was not interested in funding defensive weapons like this but was more interested in funding offensive weapons like the V-1 and V-2 missiles and jet engined fighters. Hitler always loved a good Offense as it spelled “Victory” but never a Defense as it reeked of “Defeatism” and which was a Crime that got you Executed.
There's also the question of _loading_ the damn thing. If it's on a tank chassis moving from place to place, that means there's another vehicle following it around with one or two more missiles for reload, plus a crane to get the missile on to the launch cradle. The Rheintöchter was more than 20 feet tall, 21 inches around, and its launch weight was over 3,000 pounds.
I watched a video on youtube where someone was reconstructing a german air misslile anti-air , it was more of a steel rod though with a jet powered engine.
Also, it's a complete waste of an E100 tank chassis. The whole reason for a super heavy tank is to have a weapon that is nearly invulnerable to enemy fire. Placing an almost completely unarmored missile launching turret on such a chassis defeats the purpose of the E100 entirely. This isn't even mentioning the fact that the weapon would have been extremely slow with limited mobility, unable to cross all but the strongest bridges (or the fact that they'd be using a very costly tank chassis for a role that could be easily achieved with a much lighter, faster, cheaper tank design). Assuming the Germans would propose such a weapon system at all, it's much more likely they would have used either old chassis, like the Pzkpfw-III & IV, or their newly developed lightly armored inexpensive Waffentrager chassis based on the Pzkpfw-38.
the Gs you're pulling to get close to mach 1 in half a second are gonna damage the primitive electronics you've got in there, so it's about the dumbest way to do it
The reintochter's radar guidance is not the commonly used radar targeted automatic radio command guidance seen in most cold war era SAM weapons, but a radar beamrider system, which is analogous to radar beam rider systems such as seen in the Metis ATGM.
Likely the model company make both the turret and chassis and one day they noticed "hey the gun can fit in the turret ring" and cobbled it together. They should have heavier self-propelled platforms for such things (kinda like a WWII version of bradley), but perhaps there was never the need.
Notice one of the soldiers wearing his field cap backwards at around 0:57. I've not seen any footage or pictures of somebody wearing something like a baseball cap backwards before the 1960s.
This just the launcher. It was impossible for it to operate as a stand alone system as shown in the box art. It was liquid fueled, so needed a fleet of tanker trucks, a control vehicle, warning and at least two tracking radars (target and missile) so the computer (another truck) can steer the missile into the target, one or more generator vehicles, cable vehicles to tie everything together- the whole thing would have been a traveling circus. Look what it took for 1960's era HAWK solid propellant missile battery A typical Basic Hawk battery consists of: 1 × PAR: Pulse Acquisition Radar-a search radar with a 20 rpm rotation, for high/medium altitude target detection. 1 × CWAR: Continuous Wave Acquisition Radar-a search doppler radar with a 20 rpm rotation, for low altitude target detection. 2 × HPIR: High Power Illuminator doppler Radar-target tracking, illumination and missile guidance. 1 × ROR: Range Only Radar-K-band pulse radar which provides range information when the other systems are jammed or unavailable. 1 × ICC: Information Coordination Central 1 × BCC: Battery Control Central 1 × AFCC: Assault Fire Command Console-miniature battery control central for remote control of one firing section of the battery. The AFCC controls one CWAR, one HPI, and three launchers with a total of nine missiles. 1 × PCP: Platoon Command Post 2 × LCS: Launcher Section Controls 6 × M-192: Launchers with 18 missiles. 6 × SEA: Generators 56 kVA (400 Hz) each. 12 × M-390: Missile transport pallets with 36 missiles 3 × M-501: Missile loading tractors. 1 × [bucket loader]
I mean this looks like something that some countries with some panzer hulls laying about might have used to test missile systems in the late 50s and through the 60s. But then you find out about the radio controlled missile projects. I wonder if there were some scientists notes saying "maybe we can mount them on a panther."
I just scratch build a 1/72 Rheintochter launcher for a Panzer 4, if mounted on a tank then use a some what date chassis. All the different chassis are just model companies milking there moulds
According to my moon calendar the ufo-base below Antarctica will be fully operational after 12 more orbits. You will notice it when the moon get a small black square in the middle-
reality is the Wasserfall made it obsolete too. Wasserfall was the upgrade to it based more off the v2, its 25 mile range meant it didn't need to be repossioned in the same way. as the much shorter ranged Rheintochter. with its mear 8km range. The wasserfall would have been trailer carried and rail launched much like the russian SA-1/S-25, it was manually guided though the operator used a radar system to guide it, and once it was in a bomber street its 650 lb fragmentation warhead would be detonating. the blast pulse, and fragmentation could potentially destroy several bombers flying in normal formations. making this a cost effective weapon. Not a wonder weapon, and in reality by the time they were coming into service it was already to late to change anything in the war...
They didn't have SAM's that functioned with any real effect, but I don't think they were that far off either. After all, they had guided bombs and ballistic missiles. They also had massive batteries of 88mm flak guns that were connected via some complex system, and guided via radar to fire at enemy aircraft.
Was the missile you mentioned a part of the Wasserfall Project aswell? Also what are your thought on the German X-7 Rotkappchen ATGM? Especially the models with it ma=ounted on a tiger turret or something.
I have that game War Front Turning Point the Wirbelwind and Rheitochter are both pretty good. The Wirbelwind is like the one used on Company of Heroes opposing fronts on the Luftwaffe doctrine.
Remenber me a lot of the french "pluton" featuring an AMX hull on wich is monted a tactical nuclear rocket. Equally goofy and terrifying at the same time
2:00 i saw videos of this long time ago and it was said (if i remember correctly) detonated in middle of bomber formation. so i assume its manual trigger.
eh but then you have to consider Germany's production capabilities by 1944/1945 is there really a chance that they make even 5 of these before the factory becomes a crater
At least cannon AA on super heavy tank chassis made sense because you still can use guns against ground targets for either self defense or attack, long 88 mm still could beat most armor allies could field. This is just useless
I am late to the party, but you definitelty should check War Front. There is a lot of very interesting stuff like famous german Panther light tank, or Tiger medium tank. As well as giant flying wing bombers, jetpacks, soviet vodka dealers (actual historical unit btw), and the ability to manually control turrets on the battlefield. I nanaged to run it on my PC on a Windows 10, but i can't go over the details because, well, yar-har-har
why would you need such a ridiculously armored hull for something that could be pretty much permanently disabled by light MG fire ontop of it, not only would it be more effective to just hitch it to a truck you are also waisting a perfectly useful tank hull and in most of those cases making it completely vulnerable to any kind of attack having at most a single mg mount
Most likely it would have had a radio controlled detonator or timed fuse, none of the German proximity fuse projects seem to have made it past the drawing board.
@@egoalter1276 That was because the German torpedoes used magnetic influence detector which required the target to literally be made of multiple tons of steel, so it makes sense that it didn't work so well in an anti air role.
Never mind the relative pointlessness of such a combination, what's the point to use a gun shield clearly meant for a conventional gun and which doesn't allow the missile to depress far enough into a remotely sane travel position (low and more or less horizontal)?
Well, yes... Most of the artwork belongs to Modelcollect's Fist of War series based on an Alternate Reality. It's Panzer'46 revved up a notch. But, then again. If people can take 40k tanks as perfectly usable, then these should be effin' dandy as well. Cheers.
Doing this would seem like a waste of a hull that could be used to make an actual tank anyway, especially at the later stages of the war. To carry multiple of these missles they'd have to be loaded on a supply truck also because you ain't fitting that in the hull so making these mobile would have been dumb in it's own right.
I volunteer at the Olympic Flight Museum and we have the prototype air to ship missile they would drop it from a plane and the bombardier would manually guide it if your interested I can take some photos next weekend
Even with the ones I added in while writing I still technically missed a couple since there are some of the absolutely crack-pipe walker tanks with launchers for them. Might have to do a top 10 craziest napkinwaffe model kits someday.
You'd enjoy some of the kitbash heresy then
You should dig deeper into this rabbit hole of fake scale model panzers, might I recommend the fist of war series of models by modelcollect through an excellent model site called scalemates which archives most if not all scale models that you could search for yourself.
Before I even watch this : I love fake tank Fridays .
Also : WW1 German Oberschlesien tanks. It's gone a bit quiet recently but it's still out there, faking it's fake booty .
Just a little fun fact, the Rheintochter was actually tested with a simple infrared seeker and a proximity fuse of varying design. The early heat seeking device was pretty similar to the first sidewinder seekers in that it had one infrared sensitive cristal of the viewing field was interupted by a spinning disc with a certain pattern. In this regard, the germans were actually pretty far ahead of the allies.
People always seem to get excited about the german ww2 research for the wrong reasons.
There were incredible developements, they just weren't big machines but rather the small subsystems.
Top 10 Wehaboo-bait vehicles
This was a real proposal... by model companies. Even cheap models go through a design and approval stage.
And his production stopped in 2017. Today is a vintage kit.
Wow didn't realise that there were "working" SAM systems being developed during ww2, I knew that the technology was possible at the time but in Germany it certainly is improbable.
There were alot of promising SAM designs that were tested during the war or shortly after. Rheintochter was very influential for soviet SAM design while Wasserfall influenced early American SAM
@@dave_sic1365 The Wasserfall was the only one that could've bveen effective, since it utilised a liquid explosive, to produce a 200 ft blast radius. A sinlge rocket could've brought down an entire formation.
I went to the Udvar Hazy center in Virginia during a trip to DC and that fascinated me when I learned missiles were that far along in 1944.
A lot of people are unaware that the US literally had radar-guided glide bombs that they deployed against the Japanese in early 1944 too
@@anzaca1 Bomber's cant be taken down by a light shockwave. Fragmentation of any kind?
The only reason people claim the Nazi wonder weapons were lightyears ahead is because they wound up being desperate enough to use them in combat despite serious flaws.
Because of those flaws, they were mostly ineffective and just cost Germany a ton of money and resources...so they probably helped the Allies more (and the "wonder weapons" tech was used after the war, such as in the space race.)
@@NK-qn6pq Wouldn't that mean that this tech was actually ahead? Why would the US use technology from their former enemies if they have superior or at least on par tech of theirs?
So you also have Operation Paperclip which you mentioned, and that already makes for at least two reasons for people to claim some wonder weapon technologies were very ahead for their time. When you see comments starting with "The only reason..." nowadays you almost certainly know they will be untrue to some degree.
@@TheIzroda depends, remember these tech that was ahead of the time was deemed obsolete after 1950. Especially with the V1 rockets and V2. They made a better and efficient designs than those two
@@joshuajoaquin5099 both the Soviets, Americans, and British (and arguably the French) used captured German equipment and engineering data as a basis for future developments, combining it with their own experiments where appropriate.
For example the Scud missiles used into the 1990s by many countries (and missiles based on them to this date) are direct derivatives of the V-2.
Early Soviet SAMs like the SA-2 which was quite effective in Vietnam were direct descendants of the German WW2 designs the Soviets took back home.
The early Soviet jet fighters were based on German engineering by Focke Wulf (but using copied British engines eventually).
@@joshuajoaquin5099 Yes but the tech that replaced it was also developed from improvements and upgrades of said WWII tech. This wasn't some technological vacuum where something absolutely new and developed in parallel suddenly replaced those technologies in 1950, so yes later more advanced tech owes its advancement to earlier tech which in this case includes even "wonder weapon" technology. Take a look for example at the Regulus I missile, which was developed during the late 40s and early 50s and was in service to the mid 60s.
That's almost like saying Ford Model T was deemed obsolete by the early 2000s. Sure, but were would car manufacturing be without it?
Nice video.
Tell us more about the experimental "assault drones" the U.S. used in the Pacific Theater. The picture you had onscreen was a first-time-seeing moment for me.
As far as I know those were modified bombers that carried a live TV camera set and were flown remotely by experienced pilots. The Americans flew at least one attack in Europe against the V3 England Geschütz in mimoyecques
@Dave_sic That's a different drone, operation archimedes.
This was the drone in the video
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_TDR
@@oco8783 thanks I knew it under the name operation Aphrodite.
I'll have a look at the link
@@oco8783 Quite right. I am familiar with Archimedes.
Thank you for the link. This is new information for me.
I could tell from the photo that it had to be early in the U.S. participation of W.W. II because of the red dot in the national insignia.
@@pauld6967 I would highly recommend viewing historian Mark Felton's video on the US drones, it's very fascinating and arguably an early version of a precision guided munition. There's also arguments that say it might be what spurred the Japanese to adopt kamikaze attacks.
while the tank mounted versions are totally fake, this was the perfect excuse to learn about those german missiles which I actually had no idea existed, good video as always
There were more designs as well. They had essentially heat seeking missiles at the end but could put many together (as with any such technology, any successes were marked as "top secret" and not allowed to be discussed.. this is why we never have data on how effective things were so assume the less you know the more it scared Allied leadership).
Would love a WW2 RTS Game to have customizable units so I can mobilize horrid creations like this
I remember first time seeing this specific missle carrier in 2007 rts warfront turning point. It had all of crazy ww2 gizmos, like german ultrasonic tanks and piloted mechs, usser freeze and subterranian tanks or allies force field generators and helicopters.
Kinda like alpha centurai, that would be great
Men of War with mods?
Thanks for pointing out how Germany wasn't the only nation testing guided missiles during the 40s, I was particularly impressed with American proto-cruise missiles when I stumbled across them.
it should be said more often that Germany wasn't the only one pushing science forward, but they were ahead in a lot of fields and had more numerous and successful designs. its also very true to say each nation excelled in different technologies, like the US with the Atomic bomb, they were decades ahead of Germany and its arguable that the German method may not have been possible at that time.
@@Archmagos_Faber The Germans were only "more successful" because they were so incredibly desperate. They were at the point of throwing money & resources to anything with even the smallest hope of success. Very much a "throw it at the wall, see what sticks" form of R&D. Due to that, they have far more successes.
@@Archmagos_Faber Germans on the other hand have numerous nuclear reactors, much more advanced then american ones.
@@deauthorsadeptus6920 THEY DIDN'T HAVE NUCLEAR REACTORS, there is no proof that, they tried but they failed, end of story
@@Archmagos_Fabere US had functioning remote controlled combat drones. It’s as others have said, generally other countries weren’t as desperate as Nazi germany. Idk it’s weirdly frustrating to me because it’s almost like making a lie out of the truth. They did have some innovations, but the interest was because it was crazy nazi technology not because it was the best and 90 years ahead of its time
That's something straight up from Road to 56 mod for Hoi4. Except in that case it's Ajax SAM and "superheavy" in the eyes of Rt56 is something like late heavy tanks ie IS-7, M103, Conqueror, Object 279, T-10M, AMX-50. So it's not hard to imagine such chassis being used to carry the launcher for the battery. But that's specifically late 50's tech, not early 40's:D How do people come up with such things and more importantly how do they sell other people on such ideas?0_o
Hilarity mostly.
The pizzazz factor
They pitch it to wehraboos probably.
I do think that someone looked at Cuban S-75 and S-125 TELs based off the T-55 tank and went 'Wow these look interesting, now if only the Wehrmacht had its own version. 🤔'
I've got to be honest, I do have a good number of the model kits you showed. I know they're not real, but I just think they look cool.
They are very cool
In defense of ModelCollect, it was a rather small company and these were meant to be what-if that were released along literally walking mechs, twin barrel tanks and other sci-fi reaching stuff.
They are neat for those who find it neat, not to be taken seriously.
I have nothing against the models themselves I just like to explain the reality behind them as often it isn't done by the companies themselves which can confuse people with less knowledge on the subject.
My only question is how on earth do people think this is real who on earth would need a SPAA with the armour of a maus
for more hit points duh
this serie is interesting but I hate it, because after every episode I want to buy a model of those cool looking tank
i cant wait until some model company pops up and makes "poopenfartenkannone 38 mounted on maus hull"
Just add the hull of a E-100 to tag it as ultra fake
It’s a shame that Modelcollect discontinued many of their historical models in 1/72 *cough T-65BM cough* in favor of their wacky “Fist of War” range. Maybe you could take a look at their “walking tanks” next!
honestly, I don't know who will buy those wacky fist of war kit. They looks sci-fi but that's about it. Still no idea why don't they continue their modern armor kit. It seemed pretty successful.
I wish the companies who make these kits would expand into doing other countries, WW2 Germany absolutely dominates the model kit scene, would love to some of the crazy DPRK weapons actually built for instance.
1:40 - 2:30 Was listening to this while playing another game and I had to double check I wasn't watching a hoi4 video with that iconic BGM (Specifically Bring Forth the Tanks).
Great video as always man!
Soviet Union had a prototype that mounted S-25 Berkut (SA-1 Guild) missile on IS-3 chassis, maybe the model makers got the idea from there? Some of the German engineers that developed the Rheindochter were also involved in S-25 Berkut during their extended "visit" in Soviet Union.
does the missile knows where it is at all times?
Yes, because it knows where it isn't.
remote guiding missiles like this in video games is very difficult, and probably even harder irl
Depends. Those early missiles were usually guided by the "zieldeckungsverfahren" or target overlaying procedure.
The missile would carry a flare and the aiming personnel would move the light dot over the shilouette of the target and hold it there. the missile would be detonated by some kind of proximity Fuze. Germany had an acoustic proximity Fuze and a radar proximity Fuze. Alternatively it could be detonated by impact or command from an experienced crew.
@Mauricio Pittavino exactly.
The "Kranich" acoustic proximity Fuze consisted of a thin piece of sheet metal that was vibrating. It's resonance frequency was tuned to
the b17s engines. Resonating vibrations made it bend so far that an electrical connection was made with its container which fired the initial detonator.
I'm unsure if they would have used an acoustic Fuze. Radar fuzes seem to be more likely to me.
To be fair, the US and USSR SAM projects were based on the german "Wasserfall" missile. While we are at it, want to guess who had the first mass producable transport helicopter in service?
Also whyd they have a gun shield lmao
War Front: Turning Point was a very fun old alternate history RTS game. I would definitely recommend giving it a try. Can't say I remember much about the story though.
I loved that game!
Story was that Hitler was overthrown/assassinated before the game, and an unnammed more successful Fuhrer almost conquered Britain before you overthrow him yourself. Then as Germany and the UK/US are about to make peace, the Soviets attack both and they have to team up to take them down. Hilariously cheesy characters but the Allied/Axis real secret projects used were cool and the original cryo tech they gave the Soviets was nice too. Would have been cool to put in an expansion to fit in the Japanese but that would've probably needed to fit in naval combat...
Support for it to get the darn thing working is non existent.
@@tomayto70 I do remember that in the German campaign for the game, you actually played out the coup against Hitler in one of the early missions.
@@wolfehoffmann2697 I think that was the successor Fuhrer though. The only reason is I remember in the briefing before the mission Hellman says that the Fuhrer is "even worse than the last one," or something to that effect. I took that as an implication that Hitler had been overthrown before the story starts.
I don't care about the impracticality, it looks awesome. I'll definitely try to build one out of lego
For Wasserfall (the smaller SAM derivative of the V-2) a sound proximity fuze was proposed, same as for the Ruhrstahl X-4 air to air missile. Wether that would have worked I have no idea. I guess with the guidance methods at the time a Radar VT fuze was a must, and that was one of the reasons german SAMs didn't see any mass combat use. Edit: Apparently a proximity fuze called "Gerät Kugelblitz" (device "ball lightning") was intended for Rheintochter but I couldn't find any sources online on how that was supposed to work. Some claim radar proximity, others comparative distance from the ground (basically two rangefinders measuring range of target and missile detonating the missile remotely when the distances matched)
I dont think the nazis ever managed to get doppler radar fusing to work. So it would have had to have been either acoustic, or command detonated.
thanks for this, not only was it a beautiful debunking, but also helped answer a question I put in the comments a while ago.
When I was at my University in Germany …. 1995 …. Long time ago I know 😊 …. I had a, at that time already retired, Prof. who did sometimes help out as there was a shortage of teachers. He pretty much only talked about his time when he was working on the “waterfall” project (surface to air missile) during WW2. I remember that we all had been fascinated about his stories. It’s not often that you have somebody from that time talking to you in real. As far as I know the American Hermes A 1 was based on the Wasserfall …..
I refer you to a recent book by Steve Zaloga on German rocket systems. In it, he states that the idea of using Rheintochter missiles on Flak 41 crucifiom mounts in combat is pure speculative nonsense. There were initial launch tests done with cruciform mounts, yes, BUT, right from the word 'go' they were never intended for combat, only testing of the missile itself, without added time and expense. Indeed, the R-1 was deemed a no-go during testing and only the R-3P was progressed to further testing and possible production approval. That version was always intended to be launched from a hardened static emplacement - similar to the simplified mock-up you showed in one of the photos in this video. In short, R-1 tested on a crucifix, out of expediency only, missile rejected, R-3P then tested BUT the program then cancelled outright before hardened static launchers designs had been finalized. Any idea of mobile Rheintochter missiles on tanks would also be farcical on the basis of the support vehicles and crews needed to transport, load, fuel, aim, fire, track targets and missiles, as well as defend them on the ground... It'd be like duplicating the V2 program in terms of logistical support, something Germany was in no place to do with dwindling resources.
Totally agree
Reintochter wasnt Volkhov.
It was a mostly self contained system that could reasonably be made mobile, and would have to be if it was in fact utilized.
The tests show transportable launch rigs were viable and common sense tells they were necesseary.
It is of course known the system wasnt used in combat, but that was never part of the question.
How to make a barely functional hull into a fixed emplacement: shoot rocket exhaust on your engine deck.
It's worth mentioning that America and Britain's rocket and SAM efforts in the 1940s and 1950s were generally as, if not more successful than Germany's, simply because they did not rush them through development in order to meet some crackpot deadline to 'win the war'. America's missile projects in particular did pretty well, such as the Little Joe in 1945 and Lark in 1946, aswell as the British Fairy Stooge in 1946/47.
What a 4,7 to 1 ressource disadvantage does to a motherf_cker.
How convenient that we got a massive boost in all these areas just after the war. We also went from being 5 years to atomic bomb production to right now through magic because we're magical. No other reason.
Napkinwaffe... I love it.
Maybe not true german wunder weapons, but my 40k imperial guard army just got new deathstrike models.
Looks like that rocket blast would be really healthy when it hit the engine deck.......
Warfront Turning Point is home to my all time favourite comic-Nazi quote of all time:
"Ah, there it is, London! I wonder how the city will be called in German."
War front turning point is a very enjoyable "What if" game and i can't wait for you to play it!
As I always say, Germany wasn't the only nation with hyper advanced modern weapons. They were just the only ones desperate enough to try and use them
no... only their weapons looked weird. b29 is hyper advanced weapon and its development did cost more than atomic bomb one. oh wait there is another hyper advanced weapon.
Germany struggled to produce normal tanks. They switched to the more simple to manufacture turretless defensive vehicles. They could not afford themselves such fantastic ideas
It seems Secret Weapons over Normandy wasn't entirely off base here....they had it mounted on a half-track
It has been YEARS since I have seen anyone talk about that game.
Also the pacific carrier part of the campaign was annoying for my as the wild cats were very mid. The quad AA section was fun for me though.
Did you watch the video? There was no attempt at a mobile mount
@@ROBERTN-ut2il was adding to the ridiculous ideas for a mobile launcher....hence the reason I brought up the game
I'd like to see Cone's thoughts on the common misconception, that last prototypes of german jets influenced all jet history.
Gloucester Meteors were starting their introduction to the RAF in July 1944, weren’t they? Intercepting V1s over the Channel before the V2s rolled around.
Iirc there was at least one battle over Belgium with Meteor pilots hoping to see some Me 262s scrambled but they never did. They mostly did nighttime and ground attacks into 1945 being careful not to fly too far into occupied territory in case they got shot down and reverse-engineered.
They got replaced by Hawker Hunters and Supermarine Swifts as the 40’s rolled into the 50’s and we’re pushed into training and reconnaissance roles replacing the older Spitfires and Mosquitoes.
What are you talking about? That was a real proposal.
"Hey, what if we put those really expensive guided missiles on a tank to shoot down bombers?"
"Hans, you're an idiot"
That was the proposal.
Ah, yes, my favourite german ww2 tanks: Trapeze and slightly thiccer trapeze
The rockets were real enough, but the manual guidance system would be iffy, even if they were allowed to work. Remember that radio control was in it's infancy and guiding a rocket to a bomber from the ground would be really difficult at best. An onboard terminal guidance system would be required, but they didn't really exist either (barring Project Pigeon). On top of that, at this stage in the war any German radio signals were being jammed to hell - these would have been no different.
From what I have seen on TV documentaries, the Germans had developed mass manufactured surface to air missiles that were Essentially
cheaply made pipes fitted with high explosives and a small rocket engine that could be fired by the dozens at Allied bomber formations once they were detected by German radar.
However, Hitler was not interested in funding defensive weapons like this but was more interested in funding offensive weapons like the V-1 and V-2 missiles and jet engined fighters. Hitler always loved a good Offense as it spelled “Victory” but never a Defense as it reeked of “Defeatism” and which was a Crime that got you Executed.
As soon as i saw the tiger and e 100/maus hull i already new this was fake
There's also the question of _loading_ the damn thing. If it's on a tank chassis moving from place to place, that means there's another vehicle following it around with one or two more missiles for reload, plus a crane to get the missile on to the launch cradle. The Rheintöchter was more than 20 feet tall, 21 inches around, and its launch weight was over 3,000 pounds.
Germans: Strap a rocket in heavy tank
Soviets: Builds a KV-44 tank
Me: you guys are insane eh wait till you see mine.
I watched a video on youtube where someone was reconstructing a german air misslile anti-air , it was more of a steel rod though with a jet powered engine.
I used to play Warfront Turning point back in 2007-2008, good game with a good story.
I could see these being mounted on Panzer IIIs and IVs, although they would probably be mounted on obsolete models
The standalone launcher in 1:72 from Modelcollect is actually quite a nice kit if you're a modeller
Also, it's a complete waste of an E100 tank chassis. The whole reason for a super heavy tank is to have a weapon that is nearly invulnerable to enemy fire. Placing an almost completely unarmored missile launching turret on such a chassis defeats the purpose of the E100 entirely. This isn't even mentioning the fact that the weapon would have been extremely slow with limited mobility, unable to cross all but the strongest bridges (or the fact that they'd be using a very costly tank chassis for a role that could be easily achieved with a much lighter, faster, cheaper tank design). Assuming the Germans would propose such a weapon system at all, it's much more likely they would have used either old chassis, like the Pzkpfw-III & IV, or their newly developed lightly armored inexpensive Waffentrager chassis based on the Pzkpfw-38.
I kinda figured the mouth-breathing wherbs would screech at this, and they didn't disappoint
Man they made all this crazy stuff and yet they still put their best tech on the slowest and the most expensive platforms
the Gs you're pulling to get close to mach 1 in half a second are gonna damage the primitive electronics you've got in there, so it's about the dumbest way to do it
One of the areas that the allies were away ahead of the Germans was in the electronic warfare.
SAM systems would quickly be rendered ineffective
The reintochter's radar guidance is not the commonly used radar targeted automatic radio command guidance seen in most cold war era SAM weapons, but a radar beamrider system, which is analogous to radar beam rider systems such as seen in the Metis ATGM.
Likely the model company make both the turret and chassis and one day they noticed "hey the gun can fit in the turret ring" and cobbled it together.
They should have heavier self-propelled platforms for such things (kinda like a WWII version of bradley), but perhaps there was never the need.
You should do the Sturmpanther.
Notice one of the soldiers wearing his field cap backwards at around 0:57. I've not seen any footage or pictures of somebody wearing something like a baseball cap backwards before the 1960s.
They’re Croats
@@tapeesa2866 Do you mean they are Ustasha fighters? Why do you think so?
What you don't know the Germans had a underground base in the Antarctic in the hollow earth.
And a base on the moon.
Proof and Source?
@@tinker2269
Dude youtube.
@@mygodisyahweh8634 book tittles article titles
This just the launcher. It was impossible for it to operate as a stand alone system as shown in the box art. It was liquid fueled, so needed a fleet of tanker trucks, a control vehicle, warning and at least two tracking radars (target and missile) so the computer (another truck) can steer the missile into the target, one or more generator vehicles, cable vehicles to tie everything together- the whole thing would have been a traveling circus. Look what it took for 1960's era HAWK solid propellant missile battery
A typical Basic Hawk battery consists of:
1 × PAR: Pulse Acquisition Radar-a search radar with a 20 rpm rotation, for high/medium altitude target detection.
1 × CWAR: Continuous Wave Acquisition Radar-a search doppler radar with a 20 rpm rotation, for low altitude target detection.
2 × HPIR: High Power Illuminator doppler Radar-target tracking, illumination and missile guidance.
1 × ROR: Range Only Radar-K-band pulse radar which provides range information when the other systems are jammed or unavailable.
1 × ICC: Information Coordination Central
1 × BCC: Battery Control Central
1 × AFCC: Assault Fire Command Console-miniature battery control central for remote control of one firing section of the battery. The AFCC controls one CWAR, one HPI, and three launchers with a total of nine missiles.
1 × PCP: Platoon Command Post
2 × LCS: Launcher Section Controls
6 × M-192: Launchers with 18 missiles.
6 × SEA: Generators 56 kVA (400 Hz) each.
12 × M-390: Missile transport pallets with 36 missiles
3 × M-501: Missile loading tractors.
1 × [bucket loader]
I mean this looks like something that some countries with some panzer hulls laying about might have used to test missile systems in the late 50s and through the 60s. But then you find out about the radio controlled missile projects. I wonder if there were some scientists notes saying "maybe we can mount them on a panther."
Classy choice of music.
I just scratch build a 1/72 Rheintochter launcher for a Panzer 4, if mounted on a tank then use a some what date chassis. All the different chassis are just model companies milking there moulds
Before I even saw the thumbnail, I imagined 4 Fliger Fausts strapped together on top of a Pazner 3 body.
According to my moon calendar the ufo-base below Antarctica will be fully operational after 12 more orbits. You will notice it when the moon get a small black square in the middle-
reality is the Wasserfall made it obsolete too. Wasserfall was the upgrade to it based more off the v2, its 25 mile range meant it didn't need to be repossioned in the same way. as the much shorter ranged Rheintochter. with its mear 8km range.
The wasserfall would have been trailer carried and rail launched much like the russian SA-1/S-25, it was manually guided though the operator used a radar system to guide it, and once it was in a bomber street its 650 lb fragmentation warhead would be detonating. the blast pulse, and fragmentation could potentially destroy several bombers flying in normal formations. making this a cost effective weapon.
Not a wonder weapon, and in reality by the time they were coming into service it was already to late to change anything in the war...
They didn't have SAM's that functioned with any real effect, but I don't think they were that far off either. After all, they had guided bombs and ballistic missiles. They also had massive batteries of 88mm flak guns that were connected via some complex system, and guided via radar to fire at enemy aircraft.
Was the missile you mentioned a part of the Wasserfall Project aswell? Also what are your thought on the German X-7 Rotkappchen ATGM? Especially the models with it ma=ounted on a tiger turret or something.
No, Wasserfall was a scaled-down A-4 (V2) with storable propellants, launched vertically. You can get a kit of it from Brengun Models.
I have that game War Front Turning Point the Wirbelwind and Rheitochter are both pretty good. The Wirbelwind is like the one used on Company of Heroes opposing fronts on the Luftwaffe doctrine.
Remenber me a lot of the french "pluton" featuring an AMX hull on wich is monted a tactical nuclear rocket. Equally goofy and terrifying at the same time
2:00 i saw videos of this long time ago and it was said (if i remember correctly) detonated in middle of bomber formation. so i assume its manual trigger.
I think if they were to mount these missiles on a tank chassis, it would probably be a panzer 3 or 4
If it was really built, then we would be absolutely scared in WW2.
It may have been planned, but never put forward.
eh but then you have to consider Germany's production capabilities by 1944/1945
is there really a chance that they make even 5 of these before the factory becomes a crater
“Napkin-waffe” glorious term
Saw the missile at the hazy center in VA
When I first saw "German sam's" the first thing came to mind was the secret weapons of Normandy mission.
Every time that HOI4 music pump me up lol
War front turning point is a fun PC game, old but fun
At least cannon AA on super heavy tank chassis made sense because you still can use guns against ground targets for either self defense or attack, long 88 mm still could beat most armor allies could field.
This is just useless
5:45 YES War Front deserves more love. And a remaster. However it couldn't compete with C&C Generals
I am late to the party, but you definitelty should check War Front. There is a lot of very interesting stuff like famous german Panther light tank, or Tiger medium tank. As well as giant flying wing bombers, jetpacks, soviet vodka dealers (actual historical unit btw), and the ability to manually control turrets on the battlefield.
I nanaged to run it on my PC on a Windows 10, but i can't go over the details because, well, yar-har-har
Its a bit like Luft 46.....but they were based on actual drawings in some cases!
why would you need such a ridiculously armored hull for something that could be pretty much permanently disabled by light MG fire ontop of it, not only would it be more effective to just hitch it to a truck you are also waisting a perfectly useful tank hull and in most of those cases making it completely vulnerable to any kind of attack having at most a single mg mount
The missile was very real and helped the USSR to develop it's first SAM, the SA-1, which bore a lot of similarity, as did the SA-2.
Most likely it would have had a radio controlled detonator or timed fuse, none of the German proximity fuse projects seem to have made it past the drawing board.
They worked fine in torpedoes, not so much against aircraft.
@@egoalter1276 That was because the German torpedoes used magnetic influence detector which required the target to literally be made of multiple tons of steel, so it makes sense that it didn't work so well in an anti air role.
Another wonder weapon........
Pz sam is awesome maybe someday in an alternative time video game we can have it
Can you talk about the German Anti air rocket for the FW,
Never mind the relative pointlessness of such a combination, what's the point to use a gun shield clearly meant for a conventional gun and which doesn't allow the missile to depress far enough into a remotely sane travel position (low and more or less horizontal)?
Well, yes... Most of the artwork belongs to Modelcollect's Fist of War series based on an Alternate Reality. It's Panzer'46 revved up a notch. But, then again. If people can take 40k tanks as perfectly usable, then these should be effin' dandy as well.
Cheers.
They missed out. Should have called it the Samzer
Doing this would seem like a waste of a hull that could be used to make an actual tank anyway, especially at the later stages of the war. To carry multiple of these missles they'd have to be loaded on a supply truck also because you ain't fitting that in the hull so making these mobile would have been dumb in it's own right.
Idk if you do fake aircraft of not, but the new Indiana Jones trailer had a really cool looking Heinkel 111 thing.
US:Hahaa ASM-N-2 BAT missile go brrrt
Gorgon SAM and AAM go brrrt
I volunteer at the Olympic Flight Museum and we have the prototype air to ship missile they would drop it from a plane and the bombardier would manually guide it if your interested I can take some photos next weekend
Fritz-X or Hs-293?
I do have a question is the jadgpanzer 38t still consider a panzer 38t since me and my friends can’t agree
we've got bamboozled again