Great video, thanks for sharing all this info. I've been considering getting vo2 max test done at a local University sports science centre - but am trying to get over a few injuries , and get some miles under my feet to improve my fitness before I go. I'm hopeful to check both my vo2 max and get some advice on my z2 training band, there's too many confusing options to choose (LTHR, HRR, Karvonen etc) - did the lab clarify those for you too?
The lab used a Metalyzer 3B-R3 by Cortex for the measurements and I think used their software, as my report looks very similar to the data on the Cortex videos. Cortex have a RUclips channel here: www.youtube.com/@CORTEXBiophysik There is an academic article on their accuracy compared to consumer tech here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6747132/ The report I received classified the Exercise Heart Rate Zones ABCDE rather than 12345 going from: A: Compensation 100%. They are coloured similarly to watches. Blue. Green. Yellow. Orange. Red I don't know if these figures come from Cortex. They don't align with the default settings on my Garmin which simply ramp up 50%, 60%, 70% etc. though I can set these manually in Garmin Connect. Zone E is>100%VO2 Max and they say should be done by athletes only, participating in competitions and being absolutely healthy. Thus has probably made things even more confusing...but will delve in a bit deeper myself...will report back with whatever I can find out...
I've seen your Strava and you do all your training in Zone 2. So here's the challenge. Go to Leicester Square in Zone 1. Head North in Zone 1 at Zone 1. Before Camden run at Zone 2. Highgate Zone 3...you can see where this is going and soon enough you will be running in Barnet in Zone 5. Then collapse!
My Garmin VO2.Max estimate has been going down recently. I am down from 48 to 44 now despite regularly running 40+ mile weeks. On Forerunner 955 it actually shows a graph based on fractional changes so it is much more interesting than looking at whole integers on the app/website. I noticed that my VO2.Max is going down after demanding speed workouts and is actually improving after easy runs with low HR.There is also the effect of running in 90F+ heat and humidity. Not worried much but it is interesting to see how the black box algorithm of the watch is behaving. If I find a place with reasonable fees to do the lab treadmill test I will do so to satisfy my curiosity. That said, for endurance runners like us, Lactate Threshold HR and Lactate Threshold pace are more important as we want to stay below that for most of the long race. The Stryd equivalent is Critical Power. I wouldn't worry about Vo2Max number.
I am trying to observe consistency in my Garmin HR...really just to see how the algorithm is working and as you say, more out of interest in how the algorithm works as much as anything else. It is also interesting so see the changes on VO2 Max on the Garmin, compared to my Stryd. The Stryd stays much more static and sometimes one goes down and the other up....!
Fascinating, Barry... I noticed the treadmill test calculated your HRmax. Was it much different from Garmin's estimation? Was it much different from your testing outside of the lab? Did the treadmill test give you your threshold HR range? My conclusions from this week's vlog... you can't beat lab testing for accuracy... and getting off the couch in first year of running has more positive impact on your health than running a 3hr marathon in your 8th year of running 😉
I purposefully wanted to get the HR Max evaluated during the test. It was 188 on the Garmin before the test. I wore my Garmin Chest starp HR monitor to the test but they had a Polar version and I needed to use that...I think I had enough other gadgets on. My max HR was 189 on test. I popped this back into Garmin manually afterwards. Interestingy I hit 189 on the Garmin on the track a couple of days later. I got all sorts of detailed data. I only skimmed the surface in this video...
Enjoyed the video. My Garmin 645/app inexplicably dropped 2 points off my Vo2 Max reading sometime around the end of May also, from 49 to 47 😮 perhaps there was an update to the algorithm? After 2 months i managed to claw back 1 point today 😂 Interesting to see your results showed the Garmin was off by around 15% perhaps they tweakee the algorithm the wrong way 🤔
@@andrewbetts2364 Now if only I was a conspiracy theorist…! I think the treadmill test suit’s my running characteristics or maybe I don’t put as much effort in during regular runs as I should… both seem likely
@@nielsv2025 Yes that's been my experience also but never 2 points straight off the bat. The "inexplicable" part was that there had been no break or discernible change in my runs/training. The only thing I can think of was that the weather got warmer and more humid around the same time and I've noticed that GARMIN doesn't seem to take that into account when it's dishing out the Productive/Unproductive "Training Status"
@@andrewbetts2364 That exactly. Also happened with me. Another reason why this may happen is if you run on softer sand or when you do hill work. Although your watch knows you are climbing, it does not seem to take that into account. A great way to compensate for this is: Take a day off, no running. Walk, cycle or jog, on a windy day to the highest spot in your surroundings. Wear your fastest shoes and run a fast 3 to 5K downhill with the wind in your back. 😉😉
I got a figure for my VT1 (3.59L/min or 43ml/min/kg). the VT2 appears on the graph in my report but I cannot assess the numerical value from the chart...it was very close to my VO2 Max point. I will tray and find out the exact figures and correlation with Lactate Thresholds
For runners and other regular endurance athletes, I don’t think a VO2 max test is important. I assume we have good CRF. How does knowing the number affect your training?
@@adamfeerst2575 For me it’s more about the training affecting the number. It shows that training is paying off and better CRF means more to me than a race PB. The test was a useful benchmark to compare against those on the watches and ring.
Yes it’s so interesting that it’s not as much that exercising is so very good for us as that not exercising is so terribly terribly bad for us!! And for our brain chemistry too!!! When Ben from Time On Feet got his VO2 tested it was wildly different to Garmin… actual was 70 something where as his watch was 52!! Just curious, if you don’t mind, how much did all that testing cost you and was it a standard package deal that they offer to the general public or perhaps part of some studies they’re doing?? Ben participated in a study for his if I remember correctly !
I went for a long session of more than just the VO2 Max...I was there for 2.5 hours. It cost just over €600. I wanted to find out where my weaknesses were so that I could work on those and I got an exercise programme with videos to follow afterwards. At every stage I could ask questions and I enjoyed it hugely. It was easily worth the money spent in terms of the potential benefits...Mine was a standard consumer package and there most of the people attending are likely in rehab. It is an outstanding centre...there is a link in the description. I will go again next year. Turns out I was a lot fitter than I thought, but could stand to lose some weight...but I knew that bit...
@@OldManRunner Ohhh so interesting!!! Should be super interesting to compare your results when you return next year after following the exercise programme then!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Yes. They were careful to point out that at my age it is about maintaining what I have and slowing the decline, not about improving...and I am 100% on board with that...I put a link in the description...some seriously impressive and extremely personable staff...
Is it necessary to run to measure VO2 max or can a stationary bike do? I'm guessing mine is quite low. I'm 65 with a crook foot and haven't done much since the covid lockdowns. I'm actually quite worried that I'm going downhill fitness wise. It's been suggested I take up swimming but I can't swim :) Running was a passion, but that seems out of reach now.
Cyclists do the test regularly. The results are different but equally relevant. When I get injured I take to the stationary bike as soon as I can and spin away whilst watching videos...which I really enjoy
@OldManRunner I was considering buying a Garmen sports watch last year before I injured my foot. Seems these provided you with the best VO2 max estimate, albeit a little low.
@@toby9999 I think the treadmill test played to my strengths in that I like running uphill at a constant speed. The Garmin is great for all round Vo2 Max calculations. There are regular sales and the 245 or 255 are similar to the 955 without navigation which I don’t find great on the Garmin…
Very interesting. And a great score from the lab 💪
@@Chris_Baily Cheers Chris. I really enjoyed the entire session. Would love to have regular access to all the kit!
Great video, thanks for sharing all this info. I've been considering getting vo2 max test done at a local University sports science centre - but am trying to get over a few injuries , and get some miles under my feet to improve my fitness before I go.
I'm hopeful to check both my vo2 max and get some advice on my z2 training band, there's too many confusing options to choose (LTHR, HRR, Karvonen etc) - did the lab clarify those for you too?
The lab used a Metalyzer 3B-R3 by Cortex for the measurements and I think used their software, as my report looks very similar to the data on the Cortex videos. Cortex have a RUclips channel here:
www.youtube.com/@CORTEXBiophysik
There is an academic article on their accuracy compared to consumer tech here:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6747132/
The report I received classified the Exercise Heart Rate Zones ABCDE rather than 12345 going from: A: Compensation 100%. They are coloured similarly to watches. Blue. Green. Yellow. Orange. Red
I don't know if these figures come from Cortex. They don't align with the default settings on my Garmin which simply ramp up 50%, 60%, 70% etc. though I can set these manually in Garmin Connect.
Zone E is>100%VO2 Max and they say should be done by athletes only, participating in competitions and being absolutely healthy.
Thus has probably made things even more confusing...but will delve in a bit deeper myself...will report back with whatever I can find out...
Class, Vo2 is popping up a lot these days for its general health benefits. I’d love to see a video on zone 2 training as well 👌 Cheers uncle
I've seen your Strava and you do all your training in Zone 2. So here's the challenge. Go to Leicester Square in Zone 1. Head North in Zone 1 at Zone 1. Before Camden run at Zone 2. Highgate Zone 3...you can see where this is going and soon enough you will be running in Barnet in Zone 5. Then collapse!
@@OldManRunner😂😂😂 very good uncle.
@@jacksheehan8014Seriously thinking of giving it a go. I’m guessing you would be game… will get planning
My Garmin VO2.Max estimate has been going down recently. I am down from 48 to 44 now despite regularly running 40+ mile weeks.
On Forerunner 955 it actually shows a graph based on fractional changes so it is much more interesting than looking at whole integers on the app/website. I noticed that my VO2.Max is going down after demanding speed workouts and is actually improving after easy runs with low HR.There is also the effect of running in 90F+ heat and humidity. Not worried much but it is interesting to see how the black box algorithm of the watch is behaving.
If I find a place with reasonable fees to do the lab treadmill test I will do so to satisfy my curiosity. That said, for endurance runners like us, Lactate Threshold HR and Lactate Threshold pace are more important as we want to stay below that for most of the long race. The Stryd equivalent is Critical Power. I wouldn't worry about Vo2Max number.
I am trying to observe consistency in my Garmin HR...really just to see how the algorithm is working and as you say, more out of interest in how the algorithm works as much as anything else. It is also interesting so see the changes on VO2 Max on the Garmin, compared to my Stryd. The Stryd stays much more static and sometimes one goes down and the other up....!
Fascinating, Barry...
I noticed the treadmill test calculated your HRmax. Was it much different from Garmin's estimation? Was it much different from your testing outside of the lab?
Did the treadmill test give you your threshold HR range?
My conclusions from this week's vlog... you can't beat lab testing for accuracy... and getting off the couch in first year of running has more positive impact on your health than running a 3hr marathon in your 8th year of running 😉
I purposefully wanted to get the HR Max evaluated during the test. It was 188 on the Garmin before the test. I wore my Garmin Chest starp HR monitor to the test but they had a Polar version and I needed to use that...I think I had enough other gadgets on. My max HR was 189 on test. I popped this back into Garmin manually afterwards. Interestingy I hit 189 on the Garmin on the track a couple of days later. I got all sorts of detailed data. I only skimmed the surface in this video...
Enjoyed the video. My Garmin 645/app inexplicably dropped 2 points off my Vo2 Max reading sometime around the end of May also, from 49 to 47 😮 perhaps there was an update to the algorithm? After 2 months i managed to claw back 1 point today 😂 Interesting to see your results showed the Garmin was off by around 15% perhaps they tweakee the algorithm the wrong way 🤔
@@andrewbetts2364 Now if only I was a conspiracy theorist…! I think the treadmill test suit’s my running characteristics or maybe I don’t put as much effort in during regular runs as I should… both seem likely
It will drop a bit when you do more easy/slow runs and rise when you do more tempo and speed work. At least, that is my experience with Garmin.
@@nielsv2025 Yes that's been my experience also but never 2 points straight off the bat. The "inexplicable" part was that there had been no break or discernible change in my runs/training.
The only thing I can think of was that the weather got warmer and more humid around the same time and I've noticed that GARMIN doesn't seem to take that into account when it's dishing out the Productive/Unproductive "Training Status"
@@andrewbetts2364 That exactly. Also happened with me. Another reason why this may happen is if you run on softer sand or when you do hill work. Although your watch knows you are climbing, it does not seem to take that into account. A great way to compensate for this is: Take a day off, no running. Walk, cycle or jog, on a windy day to the highest spot in your surroundings. Wear your fastest shoes and run a fast 3 to 5K downhill with the wind in your back. 😉😉
Hi, did you get your Lactate Threshold levels tested?
I got a figure for my VT1 (3.59L/min or 43ml/min/kg). the VT2 appears on the graph in my report but I cannot assess the numerical value from the chart...it was very close to my VO2 Max point. I will tray and find out the exact figures and correlation with Lactate Thresholds
For runners and other regular endurance athletes, I don’t think a VO2 max test is important. I assume we have good CRF. How does knowing the number affect your training?
@@adamfeerst2575 For me it’s more about the training affecting the number. It shows that training is paying off and better CRF means more to me than a race PB. The test was a useful benchmark to compare against those on the watches and ring.
Yes it’s so interesting that it’s not as much that exercising is so very good for us as that not exercising is so terribly terribly bad for us!! And for our brain chemistry too!!! When Ben from Time On Feet got his VO2 tested it was wildly different to Garmin… actual was 70 something where as his watch was 52!! Just curious, if you don’t mind, how much did all that testing cost you and was it a standard package deal that they offer to the general public or perhaps part of some studies they’re doing?? Ben participated in a study for his if I remember correctly !
I went for a long session of more than just the VO2 Max...I was there for 2.5 hours. It cost just over €600. I wanted to find out where my weaknesses were so that I could work on those and I got an exercise programme with videos to follow afterwards. At every stage I could ask questions and I enjoyed it hugely. It was easily worth the money spent in terms of the potential benefits...Mine was a standard consumer package and there most of the people attending are likely in rehab. It is an outstanding centre...there is a link in the description. I will go again next year. Turns out I was a lot fitter than I thought, but could stand to lose some weight...but I knew that bit...
@@OldManRunner Ohhh so interesting!!! Should be super interesting to compare your results when you return next year after following the exercise programme then!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Yes. They were careful to point out that at my age it is about maintaining what I have and slowing the decline, not about improving...and I am 100% on board with that...I put a link in the description...some seriously impressive and extremely personable staff...
Is it necessary to run to measure VO2 max or can a stationary bike do? I'm guessing mine is quite low. I'm 65 with a crook foot and haven't done much since the covid lockdowns. I'm actually quite worried that I'm going downhill fitness wise. It's been suggested I take up swimming but I can't swim :) Running was a passion, but that seems out of reach now.
Cyclists do the test regularly. The results are different but equally relevant. When I get injured I take to the stationary bike as soon as I can and spin away whilst watching videos...which I really enjoy
@OldManRunner I was considering buying a Garmen sports watch last year before I injured my foot. Seems these provided you with the best VO2 max estimate, albeit a little low.
@@toby9999 I think the treadmill test played to my strengths in that I like running uphill at a constant speed. The Garmin is great for all round Vo2 Max calculations. There are regular sales and the 245 or 255 are similar to the 955 without navigation which I don’t find great on the Garmin…