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The Surprising Flaws in 18650 Lithium-Ion Batteries
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- Published on Mar 11, 2026
- The standard 18650 lithium-ion battery can be found in almost every modern household, whether in rechargeable battery packs, flashlights, or even replica lightsaber hilts. Alex Hao and Andreas Bastian of Lumafield visit the cave to share the results of CT scanning over a thousand lithium-ion batteries, and the hidden risks they uncovered in battery manufacturing defects and quality control inconsistencies.
Lumafield's Battery quality report: www.lumafield....
Shot and edited by Joey Fameli
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Intro bumper by Abe Dieckman
Thanks for watching!
I work in the battery manufacturing industry, although not doing cylindricals. We x-ray our cells the same. The riot that happens if a cell that is 0.05mm above or below spec and somehow got sent through the process. Sometimes it can be as simple as someone bumped into something in the machines assembling the cells while doing routine maintenance or using the wrong screws. Battery cells have crazy tolerances. We once had to evacuate the entire factory once a few cells shortcircuited from a malfunctioning robot hand and do a several days long shutdown to investigate and fix everything. And these cheap manufacturers send such crap to consumer electronics is wild.
I worked as a semiconductor failure Analysis engineer for 25 years. We didn't have a fancy CT scan X-ray, but we did have a nice real time X-ray. The X-ray was great at imaging package faults, broken or lifted bondwires, and larger electrical overstress failures (fused open bondwires). I would demonstrate the tool by X-raying my cell phone and point out the different parts inside.
Thank you for your dedication!
Replying to the last line, we allow them. We vote and look away as those manufacturers lobby our representatives to enact laws that protect their pockets and not consumers. St-eve Bann0n said “we want the end of the regulatory state”.
@billjames1953 The things I have seen manually reviewing probally thousands and thousands of CT scan images for deep testing and the on line x-rays from cells as they pass through. Sometimes I feel like I could spot broken weldings or misaligned sheets just by glancing at a images for a split second haha. Once even saw a big piece of metal inside a cell that somehow passed all safety checks.
aluminum wires chargers that short out and turn the entire metal casing into a live wire batteries that burn out heaters with no safety shut offs we really need a website that catalogues and sells reliable safe electronics and components
I work in the battery industry. We are producing the batteries for the Apple Airpods in Germany and we are x-raying each cell multiple times to than store the images for a decade within a huge image storage cluster. So if something goes wrong we can track down all of the effected cell/Airpods.
As said in the video, don't cheap out on high energy storage of any kind, weather it's electric, liquid or gas. Otherwise you might regret it.
Varta?
You dont want a litium bomb in your ear canal..
Stay away from the no name Chinese ones..
Big name Japanese and Korean companies can't afford a bad name..
Many of the companies make their own cells or own companies that make cells..
Sony make their own from memory while Panasonic owns Sanyo that make high quality batteies on Japan..
Got to watch out for name brand made in China as their are lots of cases were people in China will swap out the genuine cells for knockoffs and keep the genuine ones for Chinese only selling products..
Apple macbooks are banned on some airlines...
Do you also process the images for defects?
@DR_1_1 and they are the ones making airpod batteries which have more margin
My 18650 battery was labeled Sure Fire. I hope the name is not a guarantee to catch fire.
SureFire doesn't make the batteries themselves, most of the ones I have seen were manufactured by Panasonic out of Georgia, but they also use Samsung and Sanyo batteries too. The Batteries are made to SureFire's specifications and branded with their name on them. SureFire makes some really great stuff, the US military uses SureFire branded batteries and other things made by them. I have used SureFire stuff for about 20 years with zeros issues. I worked in Afghanistan as a contractor for the US military for about 12 years and SureFire stuff was everywhere.
SureFire was okay, it was UltraFire you had to watch out for, those were extremely dodgy!
@JJ_ExMachina Thank you for the comment, representative of SureFire...
the name is literally the warning )
@no1DdC ... No fucking rep of Surefire, just used their stuff for over 20 years is all from my ime I served in the military to all the time I worked in a war zone as a contractor for the military. Just shared my experience with their stuff
In summary, Schrödinger just needed a CT scanner!
Clever!
A CAT scan, even.
Two cats, one alive one expired. 😝😝😝
yeah, but for quantum mechanics using a ct scanner is equivalent to opening the lid. as soon as you interact with photons be they x-ray or light doesn't make a difference.
Or just scissors.
i honestly feel that a manufacturer could label the battery as the most dangerous on the market and people would still buy them if hey were the cheapest. the "it always happens to the other guy" mentality is real and very popular
That's when regulation needs to step in
People these days are so ignorant to the fact that life has NO RESET. YOU DIE and that's it. Add a Li-ION fire to the cause of your demise and that's a really painful way to die especially when you can't escape it. I really hope we never have to say "I told you so" those those around us buying garbage from those crap websites known for knockoff products.
Anyone that has seen news stories about homes burning from a lithium fire, should think twice. I'm glad that in the DIY communities for e-bikes and RC hobbies, the majority of people have wised up years ago about cheap li-ion/ LiPo
The wild west at the moment are disposable vapes. Even though you don't recharge those lithium batteries, there are cases of new devices catching fire in backpacks and pockets
They have signs in cigarette boxes literally saying "THIS WILL KILL YOU IN A HORRIBLE WAY". And people still buy them daily...
You could also market them as 'exciting!' or 'LET THE SPARKS FLY!!'; it's a feature.
Best unheard report touching EVERYONE today except amish possibly
Ha! I worked on a framing crew with Amish carpenters. They totally use cordless tools.
@philotomybaar Yep, the Amish crew building our house uses generators to charge their cordless tools! And they have "road phones."
There IS wired audio equipment
And much of the desktop gameing hardware is wired so that at least is safe
@philotomybaar and the road buggery horse carts, have lights on them horses don't have dynamos, the must be batteries in there somewhere
@dh2032 I remember when I was a kid, the Amish were opposed to putting the slow moving vehicle triangles on their buggies. Now they have lights?
This is the IT version of learning what is in your chicken nuggets..
Criminally underrated comment 💀
Except your nugs won’t spontaneously self combust. 😮
@sodakastronut Tell that to my GI tract.
@hyperu2 Touché! 😂
Meh, I'm fine with the pink slime. Meat is meat, I don't care what part of the animal it comes from, as long as it isn't awful from a nutritional or toxicological standpoint.
on a sidenote, both the guests are so well-articulated. i learnt alot! thanks Adam
They appear to be fully articulated
@plwadodveeefdv😂
@plwadodveeefdv articulant
You learned that cheap Lithium batteries are bad and usually lie about capacity. Expensive batteries are better. I would have hoped you knew this already.
@KjartanAndersen 'Expensive' in consumer products don't necessarily mean 'better'. And that applies to elecronics too where these batteries come into the picture. So it's still better to share this information with a wide audience where people might not have been all aware.
It's good that you knew, but for others (me included) it was both a reaffirmation and educational.
I'll say this about you, Adam - you haven't aged 11 minutes since your show left the air. Good on you, lad!
Cyborg
"I should throw some of those away"
Please do a segment on proper disposal of these batteries. I hope regular people out there know they certainly should not go in the regular trash.
Recycle for sure
Beyond the chemicals and whatever else is in them, no energetic surprises for the local neighborhood garbage man.
@Nicholas-f5 Oh, so put bad lithium batteries in the recycling bin, but not the trash can. Got it!
@aaronjenkinson I was told submerging them in oil will deactivate them and kill any voltage they may have, safely.
Naturalise them before you even think of doing anything with them.
SoCool Christmas surprise is a valid name. It’s just an unexpected house fire.
more like SooHot
@C4reful My crappy off-brand 18650's are called "Fire" soooo....yeah I guess I should have read the tea leaves on that one
Suplize! Yo house on fiya!
@bRad73016 I'm guessing that as you have posted this ( when really you may get a strike)just like me you have Autism and did it anyway.
BTW it ought to have been Yu house on Fwiya!
they will blame it on the christmas tree being too dry
Love that these Lumafield folk are getting more exposure, I was surprised by how low their viewer count was when I came across them months ago and yet they have such informative and high quality videos on their channel.
The view count is low, because their products are very niche and targeting industry, not end-users. This is pretty common.
This video is sort of an ad for them, but in the best possible way.
I build DIY robots and drones, and my collection of LiPo battery packs scares the living smeg out of me because I don't have a great place to store them. I keep them in fire-proof bags inside Bat-safes (a specialized dual-hull steel box with filtered vent holes) filled with inert sand. I used to do steel ammo boxes, but they get super hot during a fire (and if you do go this route remember to remove the rubber seal - you don't want venting batteries to turn your box into a pressure bomb). If you can, go for LiFePo4 batteries instead! They're way less power-dense unfortunately, but they also burn with a lot less drama. The reaction during a LiPo thermal runaway generates its own oxygen, so they become flame throwers. LiFePo4 batteries burn as well and are still a tremendous risk, but at least the fire needs to be fueled by external oxygen. Whatever you do, please have as much respect for batteries as you do for saws and blades and learn about correct and safe use!
I don't think sand will do much except slow it down. You're just going to end up with a ton of extremely hot sand. If I had to diy something, I'd probably use sand and water.
@GamesFromSpace Slowing it down enough to have enough time to get out safely is the priority. Not burning the house down is a welcome end result. :-)
I have hundreds of laptop batteries and I’m always terrified that I’m gonna have a cascade failure
And when they fail...it's dead Dave
The biggest danger is during charging. The guy said a colleague was safely charging batteries in his garage and had a fire at 4am. I thought that doesn't sound like safely charging to me.
I also build robots and drones and I never charge batteries at night. I also never leave the house with batteries charging. Not all my batteries are in fire-proof bags all the time but they are while being charged.
I checked your channel in hopes of seeing some of your robots. I was disappointed not to see any. I'm not very good at documenting my projects but I do have a few videos showing my robots. I just subscribed to your channel in hopes of seeing some of your robots in the future.
Thanks to Lumafield for doing the work and thanks to Tested for putting it in front of all of us.
This should be mandatory viewing
Very very informative. Best of all no AI narration slop.
Oh, gosh, no AI at all.
Does Adam even know how to AI slop in the first place? Adam's a DIY junkie and probably won't ever do AI even if Hell freezes over.
No A.I., no distracting background music, highly intelligent and articulate guests. Win, win, win.
@privacyvalued4134 But there exists an entity that will rule the world with a.i.
But 400 % more nauseatingly hyperactive zooming action that constantly draws attention to camera work. Good camera work doesn't make itself known.
This report explains why I have had 18650 batteries just stop working, not discharging just stop working.
It might. There is typically a way to reset them if the security goes off. But you should also be aware that li-ion batteries won't charge normally if they're drained too much, but then you can leave it charging for a long, _long_ time and once enough power has trickled into the battery, it will start to charge. My Galaxy S8 once took more than five hours to start charging, but once it was above the treshold, it was just fine and I'm still using it every day, two years later.
@jeschinstadthanks for that info ..good to know 👍.
Lithium whiskers can still grow and discharge the battery even with nominal anode overhang.
Yup. I didn’t know about those devices either. I overheated some Molicels and they just went straight to 0v
Yep, you were an idiot and bought the "safe" overpriced shitty ones which decided it is time to milk you out of more money and just bricked your device for NO REASON. If you would be sane and bought a good honestly priced one, your device would continue to work without issues even after they would like you to buy a replacement for extra profits.
I left one of these in my drawer for like a year, was cleaning the room out and it was 4 times its normal size. Im lucky it didnt catch fire or go boom! Scary stuff.
Project farm channel on RUclips tested a few different brands of these. There were some huge differences in performance.
Project Farm on Tested when? Would be a great crossover. I'm sure Adam would really appreciate his methodologies.
@d-padnomad7671it was titled "Will China's 18650 Battery Beat LG, Samsung, Sony Panasonic? Let's find out!"
It was five years ago. Might be time a follow up....
@d-padnomad7671Project Farm is great and basically has set the standard in testing, the problem I have though is he lacks the knowledge when buying more niche things so he will find “the best” but it’s only the best out of all the other items being tested, so if they’re all junk to begin with that means he’s just finding the least ‘worst’ one.
The flashlight video he made is the best example I have, he lacked out the main 4 brands that everyone will say to go ( Sofirn, Wurkkos, Convoy, Acebeam ) so if you take his advice and buy one of the top scores on the ranking you will end up with something much worse than you could’ve gotten because he never tested anything good.
Unfortunately, performance is misleading here and how a lot of the cheaper batteries end up so popular.
Project Farm isn't power cycling these things thousands of times to determine how safe they are. Nobody would expect him to as that would take weeks. He does 1 full power cycle and checks the current output afterwards. Something a cheaply made Lithium battery can do just as well in as an expensive brand name.
What those tests don't show are any safety features built into the batteries or the likelihood of dendrite formation puncturing the separator from bad anode/cathode layer tolerances.
Point being, a cheap lithium battery can perform just as well or sometimes even better than a name brand one for just long enough to lull people into a false sense of security and satisfaction. Only for those batteries to be the exact kind to fail catastrophically far sooner than they otherwise should.
@pacmonster066 none of the cheap ones did well. Some of those are recognizable from his tests. It really miirrored the inconsistency of what was shown on the ct. He didn't say anything about the disconnect. May not have known.
Todd later did a knock off battery pack test for overcurrent specifically. Some of those, omitted safety disconnect as well. Performance was poor on those also. I think it goes hand in hand.
So glad that there are hundreds of these batteries on every international flight I take.
The 18650s are very save compared to pouch cells.
Actually, the number is closer to a dozen, as raw batteries are not allowed in passenger aircrafts per IATA and ICAO regulations.
@topeye4202
So you didn’t watch the video then
New nightmare. Thanks
And hopefully they're not sent to the cargo hold in this crazy "you have to check your hand bags" thing of nowadays...
REAL SAVAGE. Thank you for exploring this, Adam and the Tested Crew.
I have never trusted cheap or unknown brands of batteries for safety reasons. Now my concerns are validated
Haha agreed, but I think it's validated
@osbjmg "Validified" would be a G. W. Bush-ism.
USA opted for LiPo - the worst possible technology, now 40 years old. It's archaic, but only to avoid easily destroying oil bussines. That's why China is far ahead of the USA in acu technology, because they don't care about maintaining an oil monopoly.
lmfao never? what a mong
So the Chinese slap an unrecognizable name on the battery and its good to go?
my work actually went down a deep rabbit hole chasing batteries that we made that may have had misaligned layers. they ct scanned thousands of cells over months
Colab
I know this is off topic but when am I gonna have the chance to talk to someone who makes batteries again! Is there a thin flexible battery that I can buy. Or a battery that works off of cold temperature
I suppose i could bring my batteries to the VA to have them scanned for free
One of the most informative and interesting videos I have ever seen on RUclips
Wow this is great information. Thanks Adam, Tested, and Lumafield!
Are you kidding. These are a bunch of Clowns just trying to make a You Tube Name for themselves!
16:17 a colleague of mine also had a garage/house fire from charging an aftermarket lithium ion battery pack
This is probably why Ryobi does not "honor" any returns purchased from other than authorized sellers.
brilliant - learned a lot! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for showcasing this report Adam!
TY Adam! This is by far the most comprehensive explanation I have ever witnessed!
but they fall short on where to buy the Catscan machine so you can examine the defective batteries
Thanks so much for this video Adam!
I've worked in the battery industry for 20 years and it drives me absolutely BONKERS that there is no governing body that enforces the accuracy of labeled capacity. Dodgy manufacturers can slap any capacity on the label without any repercussions.
I know, right? Unenergized electrical devices have strict standards to be met. You would think energized devices (batteries) would have strict standards…
Especially given how many of these are on every flight you take...
Ask your doctor, the next time she orders a CT scan for you, if you can bring your batteries along with you? 🤣
And later you got a call from your doctor about a strange and "terminal" disease you got.. 😳
@Bob-1802Battery terminal? Dad jokes hiding everywhere - how can we avoid getting crazy? 😂
@Bob-1802 He told me to stay positive.
@myleswillis At least the consultation was free of charge.
@Senthiuz Yes - but did they discharge their responsibility?
19:40 the most humble person ever. She was the reason that massively popular product got pulled‽ Girl, lead with that line next time!
Ssssshhhhh, let her cook.
Upvote for Interrobang.
She gives me Mona Lisa vibes
@willmonson5691I thought I was the only one that appreciated the interrobang. This made my day.
@BrandonAaskov Wait... Someone other than me who is normally using the interrobang‽ This is so awesome!!!
If they come up with a rating system, and start rating li-ion batteries, that would be great.
Would be interesting to see just how bad the batteries used in the single-use vapes are. These are increasing in popularity, get generally get tossed on the ground, or into the garbage, and are becoming a growing problem. Even if not catching fire...
If you throw a li-ion battery in the garbage, you should assume it will catch fire at some point. Even an absolutely perfect battery will go off if you pierce it.
@jeschinstad It won't even if is fully charge. It will just discharge slowly over the years.
I had fully charge li-ion batteries left in my garage in some old tools for 10 years. Still had power in them still work perfectly.
Li-ion are pretty hard to destroy, since the cilinder is kind of made for that purpose. And even if you shortcircuit them, they have kind of like a fuse inside wich burns before the battery catches on fire.
Li-pos on the other hand are much more dangerous, and in most E-cigarets, you will find a lipo battery, usually a poor quality one too.
But again, the only way it can catch fire is if is pierced or you force the battery terminals to shortcircuit. And even so it will melt the wire and lose connection before it catches on fire.
The main reason lipo and li-ion explodes and catches fire is when charged with the wrong charger or a faulty one.
@jeschinstad That's my point. Vape users treat them as they would a cigarette. Tossing it on the ground, out the window, into the trash, etc. So many city streets are strewn with them.
@_SurferGeek_ That sounds absolutely crazy.
Either way, those things are such an incredible waste. I bought one a couple of years ago and used it occasionally. When it stopped working on me a few weeks ago, my natural instinct was to charge it but oops, there's no charge port. It makes me wonder just how much juice was left, not to mention, how many dozens of times the battery could've taken a recharge. There are folks out there who'll scavenge single-use vapes out of garbages and off of sidewalks because, hey, free rechargeable battery!
Wow, this was a very approachable view into a very technical issue. A lot to think about. Thanks for all of you
Dynamite quality work. Thanks to you and Lumafield for sharing!
seems about right, and scary at the same time too.
Really don’t know why I watched this but I’m glad I did. Turns out it was fascinating
Fascinating - and scary as hell.
Fantastic interview. Thank you
This was a hundred times better than the cable video from last year. Really important information, clearly presented. Kudos
Appreciate the positive words!
What the hell are you talking about?
@rogerd4559 Huh? I'm talking about a video they did last year using the same technology that compared an expensive apple lightning cable with a cheap dollar store usbc cable. The methodology was terrible and it came across as a 20 minute apple commercial. This video was a much better use case of the tech and actually provided some important consumer safety information.
The quality and safety needed for lithium its necessary to buy from reputable brands. the dropship flybynight suppliers are scary. These are not alkaline or lead batteries that at most would leak.
More importantly buy reputable brands from reputable distributors….NOT AMAZON!
LOL, pure nonsense. I have had hundreds of these batteries in devices, all the lowest price. It would take years for a defect to emerge and it would just stop working. It is not like they are going to actually catch on fire, lol.
@ASDasdSDsadASD-nc7lf lucky you.
@ASDasdSDsadASD-nc7lf except for all the stories where they do in fact catch fire of course
@ASDasdSDsadASD-nc7lf ignorance is bliss.
Maybe should have told ppl what to do with lithium cells they don’t want to use…like throwing in the garbage is almost def not the right course of action lol
That has little to do with the topic. This is about quality not disposal.
Most things don't go into the garbage. Especially anything that's this technical or specialized. I get that it isn't common sense, but still...for some reason.
@esaedvik have to wonder where you're from......
@manuelh.4147he says he’s gonna throw out some of his batteries so I disagree
Most whole foods have a recycling battery spot at the front of their store. You can call up your local recycling centers. There's usually one in every area. Also computer parts batteries so on.
Great to see you again, Adam! Thanks for highlighting the important issue of battery safety.
Very interesting and well communicated reporting.
Hey, great work.
Question: Can I just put gibberish into the company name and job title sections on your website and still get the report? Would be cool tbh.
SUPER relevent to what i'm doing right now, which is a mobile meshtastic node thats using a couple 18650 batteries.
18650s are ubiquitous. The Ingenuity helicopter that rode to Mars on the belly of the Perseverance Rover used six off-the-shelf Sony 18650 batteries, recharged by solar, and flew on Mars for almost three years before an unfortunate crash.
That's wild. I would have thought some compact pouch cells were used... Less weight from the metal casing.
Pretty cool though, especially since it was still working and a crash took it out.
@volvo09 Sony VTC4 18650s to be precise. It is claimed the used them based on their popularity and reliability in hobby drones and small communication satellites.
@volvo09 Not sure about that, the cylindrical form factor offers better strength and weight to volume ratios.
Also as mentioned in the other reply, these are tried and tested, reliable - and much cheaper than a new development!
It crashed????
@rogierius Yes, it was traveling over sand dunes using autonomous flying and it didn't see a dune and broke it's rotors in a bad landing.
I am unable to see the report at the link... Just an option to provide my email address etc. and when clicking "get report" nothing happens.
I've messaged Amazon on several occasions regarding the completely bogus claims on 18650 cell capacity, and heard nothing but crickets.
You would have to message the store selling the batteries on Amazon, not Amazon directly.
Yes, my reviews don't get published when I call out scam or untrue specifications.
Amazon doesn't make money off of _not_ selling a ton of sketchy shit...
"Made in China" is a consumer WARNING !!! ☹️
@edwardfletcher7790 A lot of Chinese manufactured electrical stuff is great.
A lot is made under contract to USA and and other western countries.
But.... many other manufacturers are a little sketchy. Quality control or certification problems. The odd manufacturer will ask what specification do you want and instantly (within a few hours) have emailed certifications to you, that are total bullshit. (I used to certify for importing electrical goods being imported to my country)..... so some manufacturers are great and honest.... and some are very shady.
If you find a good manufacturer, stay with them.
But even batteries from a good manufacturer can later breakdown....
Thank you for the video and the coverage of the information. Those are some of the VERY best guests you have every had. Thank you.
Amazon is **ABSOLUTELY** aware that **some** of their products are not just "technically possibly" dangerous but are KNOWN to have caused grievous physical harm to property, humans AND animals, including loss of life.
Amazon will *NOT* remove the products even when confronted and in the rare occasions that they *DO* remove a single product sku if the **SAME** product is available under multiple skus or suppliers they will do nothing.
Louis Rossman has gone over this extensively. Fuses that **DO NOT** cut off at their ratings levels or even TEN TIMES what they are rated and an automated litterbox that has killed multiple cats.
Do not count on AMAZON to care or take positive action.
The battery pack on Louis Rossmann's electric bike caught fire just outside the front door of his apartment building (back when he lived in New York). It wasn't even on charge. The manufacturers had cheaped out on the batteries in the battery pack. Just thank goodness the bike wasn't inside the building.
Some? After all, Amazon is awash in garbage; their entire strategy from the very beginning has been focused on the principle: buy low, sell high. Which worked because the Merican society is poor and not quality, but price are the main purchasing factors. It's the same approach as Ford's back in the day: it's better to pay compensation for passenger deaths than to improve the design. This is madness that could only happen in the USA. Greed is good, right?
Yest we continue to bring them on passenger Jets every day
I purchased a plug-in thermostat from Amazon and happened to notice after a few weeks of use that it smelled funny. Trying to unplug the small heater that it was plugged into, I found that the interior of the thermostat had melted and fused to my plug. I wrote a review on Amazon describing this as a fire risk and Amazon rejected my review citing "Violation of Amazon Policy" ?????
@p0k314COM Ummm....much of what has horrible reviews on Amazon is not American-made, but cheap Chinese garbage. The items I've had to return or have had early fail rates all came with Chinese packaging and instructions that said "Avoid water playing with product. Don't touch children. Please don't be edible"
I would love for that gentleman to narrate everything from the news to the phone book
I really hope the donutlab battery turns out to be real.
But what would be the reason for believing in a fantasy spec without any tangible evidence?
@allanallansson9532 : drive.google.com/file/d/1xxWS_cn-ExittX9cjDtZik4BCBcNllyc/view?usp=sharing
@allanallansson9532 totally agree. big statements at ces with promises of more to come when nothing else is on the market at that size/scale. could totally skip ces and just come out with actual data/demo's/etc. to showcase and have people tangibly deal/experience it. It screams Nikola
@allanallansson9532 Humanity runs on hope. I am all along, unless that is proven incorrect. Imagine, the world energy problems and all the wars that battery technology is going to solve.
@allanallansson9532 It's fantasy specifications for a battery, but not for a super capacitor. The only problem to fix would be the fast self-discharge rate and if they fixed that then it would be better than actual batteries.
If this is an ad, this is ad content I want to see. Advertised the company and its capabilities in a way I was genuinely interested in.
This is not an ad. We are not paid in any way for these, nor do we receive any sort of product -- we just think the tech is cool.
@tested You mean you're not getting an industrial CT scanner for the cave?! Imagine the content.
It would be really helpful to have a rundown of risk applications. I wouldn't risk cheap cells in a device that can take external damage (scooter or EV) however is solar support much safer? No real movement or potential to be crashed into..... what's the actual risk?
@testedBut you need to give them your data to download the report. Kind of an ad.
How has this interview not happened at LTT yet? They've been using a Lumafield for a few years now.
Thanks for the upload, Adam.
The unfortunate truth is even if Amazon does the right thing and bans these dangerous batteries, the companies making them will simply rebrand and keep selling them. Truth is there's literally nothing that consumers can do because by the time the bad reviews come in, the company will make back enough money to rebrand and keep selling their garbage.
amazon NEVER does the right thing ever unless government forces their hand. and then like you said, they just allow these seller to change there name from sjsafjsjjs to sdkskskj and resell the same unsafe products.
This is why I avoid lithium cells from Amazon and buy only reputable, name-brand cells (protected, if possible) from places like Battery Junction and the like. When some products come with unknown lithium cells pre-installed, it adds extra cost to immediately replace those unknown cells, but it's worth it. All risks cannot be eliminated, but they can be mitigated. Also, I often don't use built-in charging and, instead, use good-quality, name-brand chargers.
I do not like Bit Coin (won't go into that here), but the blockchain technology behind it is made for products like these where supply chains from reputable manufacturers can be verified. Alas, we are not there yet!
@paulcummings55Sadly, the term "blockchain" is a bit muddy. Do you mean a hash tree by itself, a published hash tree or a collectively maintained hash tree via a consensus finding mechanism?
@paulcummings55blockchain is overkill for that. Just a regular database would be faster and more efficient. No need for decentralization when only manufacturere are addig to the db
There is also a big difference between lithium ion and lipo batteries from a stability/safety standpoint.
Bravo and thanks for the free report. 👽
Considering some of these types of batteries gets shaken due to the type of use and environment. Oof. I can see how they turn into firecrackers that never end.
The batteries measure 18 mm in diameter by 65.0 mm in length, giving them the name 18650. The zero at the end denotes the cylinder shape. This was a great episode. 🙏❤️
That is really interesting, thanks for sharing! I was curious why it wasn't just called an '1865.' It turns out the '0' is actually a shape code used in the industry to designate a cylindrical cell. If it were a different shape, that fifth digit would change. It’s a clever way to fit all those specs into one number!
The zero at the end is the first decimal, not to signify a round cell. For instance a 2032 coin cell is 20mm diameter and 3.2 mm thick.
Cept anyone who's dealt with 18650 cells will tell you that they're all a little different physical size. Some a little fatter, some a little or a lot longer. You can even see it in the opening shots of this video, with all the cells lined up next to each other. The protection circuit and button on top don't count as part of the 65.0mm but even among the cells that don't have either, there are size differences.
@daemn42True. Some companies don’t follow the standard sizing rules.
Actually the last digit is the tolerance. 18650 can be 18+-0.5mm and 65mm+-0.05mm in size. You always give dimensions with the least significant decimal that's allowed.
Great video. Thanks for sharing - very informative.
Thanks very much Lumafield and thanks Adam for featuring this report. Don't know if anybody else has already said this but I think it would be fantastic if underwriter's laboratory would subcontract to Lumafield.
This in response to Adam's question. I mean testing product safety is the goal of their organization. I don't think the UL label has the meaning it once had
Underwriters lab has been bought by rich gangsta executives they dont mean anything any more. They are just a false label of false confidence
i'm wondering if 12:06 we're seeing maybe the same factory made both, but one went to a discount market for being out of spec and the other went on to the name brand wing of the factory.
Backdooring? In Chinese factories?
No…..
Exactly my thoughts.
@Racing_Pig not even backdoor deals, the cells that fail the strict QC are sold as B grade batteries with more lax QC.
Also even outside of chinese factories it's very common, like for bread the discount bread was literally the same as the previous batch for another manufacturer, they just do their count, and whatever is left over goes in the discount brand sandwich bread packets.
Pineapples that fail QC for the stem are sold as rings instead of fresh, and those that fail QC for the shape get diced.
I'm just a hobbyist and thought Lumafield's report was interesting when it released a few months ago! It's good to get the word out about bad lithium batteries.
Cant download the report unless you work for a company, as they want company name and position within the company, would be so helpful for people that rely on these batteries for projects and prototyping, like myself.
Agreed, it seems they share the same marketing as the good battery manufacturers 🙄 I'll bet it's full of subliminal adverts for a particular brand
The only field that needs to be accurate is the email field. And you should have a throw-away email account for such purposes.
I mean yes, "white papers" are generally self-promo, so if you're not a business, it's not too hard to find a "Lumafield Battery Report pdf" another way.
Look up mooch battery tests. He's someone who began testing 18650 cells back in the early 20-teens for vape users, but he tests all ranges of 18650 cells and writes up spec sheets. He also retests them every so often to check for changes made by the manufacturer that could change the specs. He found that SO MANY 18650 cells blatantly lie about their advertised specs.
They got my email but every other field I marked "private". I got the report, no problem.
amazon is to blame for allowing this... as she stated its IMPOSSIBLE for an 18650 to be 9000mah... any 18650 on amazon over 3000mah can easily be assumed to be fraud yet amazon allows them to flow. u cant leave negative comments on amazon either.... so these grenades flow non stop into houses....
So i Broght 18650 beattery from digi-key casued more reliable sources...
You can bump that up to around 3500mAh: there are legit cells in the 3000-3500 range, such as the NCR18650GA at a nominal 3350 mAh. I got to test that and it holds up (not sure how many cycles until it falls under 3000 tho). Yet still, anything 4000 and up would be straight up unbelievable.
@_trupples 4050mah is the current highest capacity actually. vapcell n41, is in fact, legit.
@_trupples except amazon sellers arent trustable. I get my 18650's from dead OEM laptop batteries those are legit. I just use them for projects etc not heavy use... Im tempted to grab the bad battery packs people dump at homedepot/lowes as usually its just 1 bad cell that nixes the pack the rest of the batteries still have some good life and well free...
I wonder if it was a typo that was just ignored. Like 900 mAh is doable, 9000 mAh is impossible
What great study's ! Interesting comments from people in battery industry too !
0:31 what about a 4A-GE?
Would LOVE to see the top brands that Battery Mooch has reviewed and rated well. What are the actual differences inside well-rated cells, not just junky Temu ones!
Preferably tabless cells
All I can find is a YT channel that has no new content for 5 years.
@manuelh.4147 Still very relevant though! Search ECF for the other review charts, full name "ecigarette forums". Most 18650/21650/21700 cells have not changed in the last 5+ years. For example the wildly acclaimed Samsung 25R has been in production since 2014. Sony Murata VTC5 (and VTC6) has been in production since 2012. Both of these models and many similar to them are used in cordless tool battery packs. Safe high amperage discharge is relevant as they were used for vapes that can easily draw up to 30 amps. Definitely the kind of thing you want confidence in--hence all the testing.
@manuelh.4147mooch's?
@Datviwhat's tabless?
I wish there was a mention or deep dive into tab less cell design
I wish I had one of this scanners
buy a capacity tester.. it will not replace a scanner but you can tell if the cells are at least close to the capacity you bough or not.
I’m sure they would happily sell one to you. For a LOT of money.
As soon as i find an extra 90k i will give lumafield a call for one of theses CT machines 😅
This is the best resource I have seen about rechargeable batteries. It provides information most of us would have no access to. The important lesson is that you get what you pay for. We would be wise to stick to "name brand" batteries which limits our exposure to hazardous products. Why skimp with a poorly made product and risk an expensive accident just to save a few dollars? Here we see with our eyes proof of poorly made products. Thanks for this educational resource. "RUclips" at its best.
Would you believe that I had bought two 18650 cells right before this video popped up in my feed? I cancelled the order and did my research to get high quality batteries. Amazing! Thank you Adam.
!!!!!!!!
Adam I suggest you provide a disclaimer for your statement regarding throwing away 18650 batteries! They need to be properly disposed at a recycling center. Most municipalities have this capability.
Lowes, Home Depot, Batteries Plus. All accept rechargeable batteries FOR FREE because of a program funded BY THE BATTERY MANUFACTURERS. Imagine if all consumer product manufacturers did this!
Program is called RBRC, or Call2Recycle. Website is clunky though. 😁
Oh yes, otherwise there is a high risk that the trash truck will be set on fire. Not to mention the environmental pollution.
@steffenbreyerlol ok
@chimpo131 Garbage trucks compact as they go through their route - a cell being punctured as part of this compacting process is not so farfetched as you make it seem to be. High risk, low risk, both are irrelevant in the face of "you shouldn't be tossing them into your garbage at all"
@chimpo131 ruclips.net/user/shortsmZVpx3oIzSM
ruclips.net/user/shortsI7P0dLiRRhI
thank you so much for the effort and information.
18:02 three 18650s in a trench coat 😆
I was thinking *exactly* the same thing 😂
There's trending defects happening now on legacy Model S from defective pack design. 👀
That's the pack, not the cells. Tesla used Panasonic cells back then, IIRC, which are obviously not low quality, but the packs were designed by Tesla themselves - and we should know by now that safety isn't exactly a priority at this company.
Thanks Adam an team super great information
If you have a 18650 in your pocket with your keys, the key can make a perfect short circuit, resulting in a party in your pants.
I think THIS is why they are not used in more devices instead of AA/AAA's. People would treat them like AA/AAA's and burn their house down.
The big problem with manufacturing is too many "knock-off" manufacturers depend on the BMS safety features to protect their battery from itself Then the BMS manufacturers rely on the batteries to conform to an industry standard of redundant safety features to accept a charge. Needless to say, when your house burns down in the middle of the night, how do you prove who's fault it was. The battery, the BMS, or the charger??? If you can even figure out what brand battery or BMS was in the device!
Excellent point about the BMS being used as a safety mechanism instead of engineering a robust battery
Wow. Super important report. Thanks so much.
Alex’s voice records so well
Errm.
He sounds familiar to me.
Yes. I noticed that too. Former hospital DJ perhaps. If not then maybe a future one 😂.
Dx.
I also wonder if a bunch of these are all built on the same line, and then a binning/sorting process sends the ones that come out within spec to get a name-brand label, and duds get a no-name label.
Pretty much. Many of the off brand ones are basically the quality control rejects. Especially when they just have the shrink wrap to change the name. They’ll generally test that it puts out voltage and call it good.
no... your peoples republic of cheap batteries purposely dumps junk on the market
I doubt it. It's just very easy to manufacture this design in a way it will still function while containing latent flaws. The controls necessary to prevent the flaws are expensive so they are skipped. If there is no government accountability, they will keep doing it because it makes them money.
Oh, and don't worry about the cells in Chinese EVs. Domestically in China, they take quality and safety very seriously and the punishments are real. It's the directly exported cells and batteries that their government struggles to handle. In the past it was the traditionally accepted bribes to officials all the way down, but that has been getting better.
Apparently not. The bad batteries are physically very different and the reputable brands have their own recycling program that ensures they are actually recycled, not sent to landfill. The recycling program also minimizes their financial losses from the defective batteries.
Excellent information. Thank you.
It would be interesting to see the scans of failed batteries, like the "spicy pillows". (Though I totally understand if they don't want to be putting those in their machines)
There is infact CT scans of swollen pouch batteries in the Lumafield Battery Report.
Aw i'd loved to see LG HG2 in the report.
I use those a lot and no failures in 10 years.
...but the Sonys and Samsungs i have, didn't fail me either. ^^
I can emphasize to always watch your cells when you charge them.
Check out those Vapcell 4000mAh cell. It is the next gen. They aren't a fake rewrap they are the strongest on the market in 18650 size
Yes, I am awake and aware, and nearby when I charge my batteries.... that is an important safety precaution. I am in the same room or the next room, not dozing.
Maybe doing other things, but alert.
@cajampa the higher the "spec's".... the more potential hazard you may be dealing with.
The more capacity, if true, means more firepower, if things go wrong.
@colonelfustercluck486No don't be silly.
You will not see any different between a 3000mah cell or a 4000mah cell if you would screw one up for example.
You think you are being cautious but you just don't understand the technology.
And your point have nothing to do with what i am talking about.
My point is just because this is a relatively unknown brand. Doesn't mean they don't sell good stuff. As i said that cell is one if the strongest and a real uplift over the old gen cells. There is even newer cells that have come out after that one. That is tabless silica carbon lithium cells that is WAY stronger still.
And no stronger doesn't mean more dangerous. It means lower cell resistance so they run less hot when you charge and discharge them. And that in many cases will increase safety.
@cajampa What are your qualifications, seeing that you brought that up?
I am qualified in electronics hardware repairs and a limited electrical license having performed years of on the job training and exams.. like a 2 electrical qualification situation. AC (3 phase) or DC equipment.
Just to clarify.... the difference between 3000 and 4000 of anything is a substantial difference. Or ratio.
In this case it indirectly refers to energy density. Potential energy contained in the same sized can. Compare it to 4 gallons of petrol, or 3 gallons of petrol/gasoline.... in the same can. Obviously 4 gallons, if released in the wrong conditions, do more potential damage than 3 gallons.
Like 3 sticks of Dynamite or 4 sticks of Dynamite.
Think about energy density, and include with the idea of safety considerations.
That's all.
Some manufacturers are great, others are not so great. Where do I put my faith. No-one because I have seen the best equipment possible get 'smoked'.
Components, even into the best of equipment can break down.
The manufacturer of the gasoline/petrol doesn't matter in my example.
But quality control in the manufacture of the can, and user knowledge and common sense also matters.
I agree totally with your comment on very low internal resistance....and external connections. Both are always a consideration with very low voltage DC electrical supplies.... in a high current situation. Or anything in a high current situation.
What a time to be alive. Adam Savage and Michael (vsauce) uploading consistently in youtube.
Fine information.
I am shocked how terrible the battery industry has become. Most notably about grossly over stating the capacity as well as charge and discharge rates.
Whilst an issue in 18650 cells it's even more prevalent in the (RC) pouch batteries.
Overspeccing up to physically impossible capacities has always been there.
It's just that online sales directly from scammers have increased from that of say 15-20 years ago.
Adam, it would have been very helpful you listed the top 3 brands and the bottom 3.
Lumafield published their study, and the abstract is easy to find on their site.
@robroberts2064 Great! Thanks.
The full ranking information is given in the lumafield report, see the URL that Adam provided in the video notes.
Amazing work! Thank You!
Amazing video
I can't shake how the lady (Alex) bears more than a passing resemblance to Nelson de la Rosa. I ain't trippin', am I?
TL;DR - Do NOT cheap out when buying li-ion batteries. EVER!
I wonder which expensive batteries are equally bad. Reputable might be the better way to say "don't buy cheap".
What I didn't see is which brands have the best batteries.
There no way to know what batteries are in your appliance.
@denisabalakov73I noticed the the one they held up as having excellent construction and wrap consistency was labeled Panasonic, so there’s that.
@denisabalakov73Just buy from a reputable brand like LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Murata, or EvE. Of course, make sure to order it from a reputable seller as there are many fakes floating around.
19:53 they make gummy bears 😂 how is this a surprise 😳 if you buy electronics from a candy maker you kind of deserve this 😂
Most of the time the candy (or non-electronic) company who puts out branded electronics just slap a logo onto a product, they don't make their own.
Yeah, but you would think a big name in candy like Haribo would pick a more reputable business partner, to avoid besmirching their own good name.
Remember, Amazon does not give a single care about selling garbage to you and lying about it. Their reporting process and back end action is nearly nonexistent.
Where are the link to the files?
I have a couple of Drones and one I had not used in about a year, I decided to charge it up and have a play, BUT
when I took the pouch batteries out they had swollen, about 20% over the original, and cracked the drone frame.
I sent them off to the recyclers and binned the drone.
It was just sitting on the shelf in my study !
Like cans of food, discard any bloated lipos.
@Racing_PigRecycle, not "discard".
They can do that if over discharged, always disconnect batteries if not in use for a while and for long term storage it's best to (dis)charge them to 70-80%.
Thanks all for producing this report and video. Hopefully the word spreads. Anyone remember this in 2010:
On September 3, 2010, UPS Airlines Flight 6 crashed due to a fire caused by lithium batteries in the cargo hold, resulting in the deaths of both crew members.
Fires are bound to happen
Thats why there were changes after that crash so if another fire happens in the same way it shouldnt lead to a crash
One thing i very much like with avation
It tends to have everything that allowed such a thing to happen be investigated
Great consumer advice, knowledge is power
Bloody hell, the Haribo stuff, that's not just scary AF, that's borderline criminal... they are explicitely targeting children with this branding and brand, and then they have actively dangerous, zero QC manufactured Li-Ion-batteries in those products, even the earbuds that could potentially cost a child their hearing, not to mention disfigure them for life...
I cannot even put into words how much this disgusts me... Haribo is a german household name brand, and as a german myself, I am ashamed and frankly outraged that they put their name on products that are not only shoddy, but actively dangerous and then on top of all that have children as their target demographic!
They should stick to gummy bears. Those are the best
its not borderline, honestly that's fully criminal to put out a product with not enough testing that exists in the consumers EARS. It's not about where its from, if this was from my country (canada) I would denounce that too. It's cute but DON'T do this. Stop being cheap with peoples' lives
@LyleAshbaughwell... maybe not even the gummy bears. To the best of my knowledge, it's only allegations but, there are claims that they are using slave labor for their products. My understanding is that it's specifically the carnauba wax.
Edited because of fat fingers.
@alertsquirrel That story is 9 years old. Haribo wasn't "using slaves", but supplied their wax from farms where the authorities said "it could be described as slavery".
The main problem here are the supply chains. Go deep enough and you find for most industrial products at least questionable sources and production conditions. They tried to enact a law where manufacturers had to check their supply chains, but the sad truth of reality is that either it is almost impossible to have full control over the supply chain or when you only source products by the highest standards a lot of products would be much much more expensive.
do u think haribo is really selling these over amazon? or did just someone stole their name to get their shitty product sold.
Are the defects random or do they constantly appear in similar locations?
Expect both to occur, but it depends on point of view.
Key issue is poor quality control, and likely poor line setup.
One quality issue can be alignement drifting on the machine and allowed to drift way past (safe) tolerances. So between sequential batteries rolling of the line, there might indeed be a consistency. However, between two batteries shipped in a retail package, the defects are just as random as anything, even if there is a clear, potentially even predictable process causing it.
Those batteries with that large waves are particularly dubious, as it means the cutting process is already terribly inconsistent within 10 mm of roll length, let alone the thousands of miles the machine is actually through-putting. That is a cutting process failing outright and the manufacturer just doesn't care or even lacks the understanding their machine is broken.
Very interesting. Thanks guys.
20:41 don’t throw away batteries. Recycle them. Home Depot has a recycling program. Best Buy and Target used to take batteries. They may now only do electronics. I believe battery specific stores will take old batteries for recycling.
RC hobby shops will usually take them as well.
Yes. they will be happy to throw them away for you.
Don't kid yourself, how do you think they are recycling these batteries ?
The landfill near my home has tons of
5 cent deposit aluminum soda cans that were to be "recycled "
@tylaranderson8559the same could be said for the people who take your trash from your house. At least here, both cans go in the same compartment of the truck. It doesnt matter where you take them, of course you should ask what they do with the batteries. Most employees will be happy to explain their disposal process in as much detail as they can.
@dlaw1954doesn't mean that these employees are going to be honest with you
@tylaranderson8559 The improper disposal is on them then. At least you won't be responsible for setting the garbage truck on fire if the cells get crushed or shorted.