The actual key selling pointz for the RFB Fantrainer was that the fan did not develop much thrust at low rpm, it thus emulated the behaviour of jet engines which require well over 30% throttle to really move a plane. This plane was to be a cheap way to get pilot trainees to accustomed to jet engines behaviour. The German MFD found this to be a solution to a non-problem as pilots found little difficulty in the switch between jets and classic propeller planes.
Simulators are one thing, realistic engineering is another. The truth is, if someone had a half a brain in the industry, they would have already designed and built a ducted fan internal combustion engine powered aircraft that would have already gotten to Mach 1.1. It wouldn’t be loud like the Thunderscreech, as the blade ends would have been enclosed by the shroud, similar to a modern high-bypass turbofan. Nobody seems to be interested at this point, and probably never will be.
Ducted fans, both electric and gas powered, have been used to simulate jet engines in RC model aircraft forever. They work great and can produce exceptional thrust in the same airframe.
This is one of the coolest non-combat aircraft I've ever seen a DARK channel video on! I'm so pleased that company has the rights for the Fantrainer/Fanliner, but what about all the other ducted fan technology? Did they get the rights to that? I would love to see what that four ducted fan VTOL looking thing would look like with modern materials computer aided design and other technological developments.
I'm surprised these didn't garner more interest. With cost being so low, they could get a LOT of potential pilots into seats and use them as a try-out aircraft. If you can't handle a fanjet, then you can't handle a jet.
Personally I think the idea of a duct fan as a pusher design for civil aviation is great. No more exposed spinning props to have to worry about someone walking into. Plus it has to be more efficient than a standard prop.
This layout is pretty close to the top of my list for an e-bike ultralight. The idea would be the cockpit would be a detachable e-bike. Behind the cockpit would fold into a trailer. I'm waiting for the price of thin film solar to come down so I can use it for the top of the wings. So I can island hop, drop the trailer and let it charge, then hop home. Carbon fiber is the new fiberglass, it's not even that novel anymore. Flying 10 miles @ 30mph is my target. And some inflatable pontoons in case I mess up.
Yeah, there couldn't possibly be a good reason an 80 year old idea has never be successfully commercialized. If you had been paying attention to the experimental (home-built) aircraft designs of the last 50 years you would have noticed that this idea comes back around at least twice a decade and always fails.
@@vicnighthorse Maybe because aviation hasn't had its Tesla moment yet. The problem is everything between ultralight and airliner has been getting further and further out of reach. Not exactly a healthy environment for new competitors in a severely regulated space.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Never give up, never surrender, indeed. I have been an EAA enthusiast for almost 40 years and have seen so many designs (esp. engines) fail but I too have and affinity for the path less taken in airplane design. Never ever put down money on an engine that doesn't yet have several examples flying. I learned that on the hard way.
Hanno Fischer designed virtually the first post war German aircraft even before the bans lifted - this became the RW3 Multoplane and grandfather of the fantrainer. As far as jet like handling goes there was one slight 'flaw' in that the Fantrainer 'blew' part of the rudder which gave enhanced rudder effect particularly at low speed which was UNjet like and could make for some ingrained bad habits eg in a stall turn you get more effect from the propblast . I designed and built a somewhat smaller version of my RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force ) basic trainer specification AFST 5044 (1980) the Slipstream Sapphire (and smaller civil OPAL as a test bed using also the Allison C250 - then used in the GAF Nomad . That program was a fiasco and ended the local aircraft industry with the Pilatus PC7 being bought Hanno was helpful with advice and I had a set of the manuals for the RW3 from the original importer in the 1950s My design had the prop behind the tailsurfaces (also T tail ) and hence no unwanted rudder 'boost'
The idea was to simulate the characteristics and challenges of jet training. A ducted fan design optimized for best fight characteristics and economical operation would still be a great aircraft.
Back years ago I had an RC model of the RFB Fantrainer, it flew outstandingly good I loved flying it. When I move I gave it and bunch of other models away. I wish I had it back.
In the mid 80s I did an internship at RFB. The first planes were to be delivered. We did a few last minute quick fixes day before the customer visits. Thing was a marvel and I still sad it never got wider adoption
Thank you for posting this historic video. I got to fly one of these privately owned Fan Tainers in Ingolstadt Germany back in 2012. I believe this was a 400 model, but still climbed and rolled quite well and was, like the video said very economical to fly. At that time I think we were burning about 200 euros/hr.
There still is a privately owned one stationed in Ingolstadt, parked on the same turntable as my flightschool Cessna. Was nice to see this plane in motion, but darn are they loud. Might as well be a jet. 200€/hr is what you pay today for a simple C172, but i guess 2012 it was closer to 100€. Cheers from Munich
@@rael5469 "$217 dollars an hour is a bloody fortune. It's hard to comprehend that there is anyone out there who can afford it." Well, put it in the context: "A flight on the L-39 Albatros Jet Fighter in Switzerland costs €3900 for a 30-min flight or €5520 for a 45-min flight. Alternatively, visitors can choose to fly in the Hawker Hunter Jet which costs €7500 for a 25-min flight."
@@paristo I see what you are saying but we're not talking about exotic jet rides, we're talking basic introductory training aircraft. I remember when you could rent a Cessna 150 for $17 dollars and hour, not including instructor. But I was only making $4 dollars an hour......so even THAT was out of reach for me. The price of a pilot's license and staying proficient has always been out of reach for me. I had the choice of going for it or saving for retirement. It's for rich people, that's for sure.
I grew up just a few miles north of the plant in Mönchengladbach and remember the distinct sound the FanTrainers made. I also saw the one FanLiner designed by the German industrial designer Luigi Colani at an airshow once. Interesting design for sure!
Here's our trainer! Do you guys like it? Nah, we'll pass... K, well shoot, maybe we just sell them to the public, then.... Hey, that's a really nifty product you got there! Any chance they could be made into trainers?
You list the SEPECAT Jaguar as a trainer! There may have been trainer versions but it was pimarily a Ground Attack aircraft (what we would have termed, back in the day, a Mud Mover). It have the the advantage that after delivering its munitions across the battlefields of Central Europe and as we know now, causing alarm and despondancy amongst the soviet horde, it was a capable fighter too for its journey back to base. It was capable of operating from forward temporary airstrip made out of lengths of Autobahn as it was comparitvely small and light compared to say - the Buccaneer which was originally built for carrier operations and therefore built of sturdier stuff. The Jaguar was not known as a trainer, certainly in the RAF, for that - look at the Hawk.
I believe the original specification was for an advanced trainer particularly from the French side of the project, ultimately such sophistication was not needed for effective training and it was much more expensive to purchase and fly than a purely transonic aircraft like the Hawk.
Man... I promise you, there is few moments in my life that I regret not been a billonaire... this is one of them... I LOVE the Fan-T... it reminds me an acrobatic little plane from Macross/Robotech and I would give one of every duplicated vital organ in my body if I can get one...
The Royal Thai Air Force took the Fantrainer out of service in 1994, replacing them from 1993 with the Aero L-39. While there had been concern about Fantrainer parts availability the fall of the Soviet Union and attractive terms from the Czech Aero company for the trainer/attack variant made acquisition a sensible move.
There's still one (probably non-functioning) Fantrainer standing outside of a restaurant here in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Very hard to miss even when you're driving down the road.
New drinking game: Take a shot every time the narrator says something about this plane's operating costs being below that of trainer jets. You may die of alcohoo poisoning. 😂
If they made that aircraft using modern composites, it might be a whole lot lighter and more agile. It may even be possible to make an electric-powered LSA version for short-flight recreational use. The basic design looks quite good, even by today's standards.
Fantrainer was cool but the Fanliner is still the coolest 2 seater ever. With Colani interior, jet feeling and unbelievable seating position Hanno Fischer made a masterpiece. It was for sale in the late 90´s but as a student I could not afford the 50.000 DM plus the necessary test pilots license. What a shame. The RW3 shown early in the movie is probably the plane with the highest ratio outside landing / regular landing of all planes :-) Hanno still flew it in his 90ies and may be still doing so. RFB´s test pilot Knöpfle was an ex-WW2-fighter pilot and I never saw anyone crazier than him :-)
According to wikipedia, the main reasons ducted fans have never become useful production aircraft are: Drawbacks include increased weight due to the added structure of the shroud, a need for precision in tolerances of blade-tip to shroud clearance, a need for better vibration control compared to free-air propellers, and complex duct design requirements. Lastly, when at high angles of attack, the shroud can stall and produce high drag.
Another ducted fan aircraft that didn't do too well was the Optima. It was promoted as a cost effective alternative to helicopters. Unfortunately it had some very nasty stall characteristics, particularly in the event of engine failure. The duct seriously impaired elevator and rudder effectiveness with a dead fan. Ta.
It sure was. And appeared in a sci fi movie with Mark Hamill (Slipstream?). I grew up near Old Sarum, saw it many times flying overhead. Usually the yellow one.
Imagine if the P-39 / P-63 had done their mid-craft engine placement but instead of the weird coaxial power shaft to a front propeller, they'd done a ducted fan like this. It would've been amazing.
I bet if you decreased the horsepower of the engine and went to a piston, then go to a 4 seat configuration it would make a great GA aircraft in the American market. Its unique, great visibility, and with the ducted fan you don't have a man-splitter out front. Too bad no one saw it that way.
Can I just say. You deserve Mr Beast kind of money and notoriety for your absolutely phenomenal channel. I've followed you from literally day one and I've always been blown away by your ability to source some of the most interesting footage and provide the most interesting information on the widest spectrum of subjects I've ever seen or watched. If you all agree, give this comment a massive thumbs up and do the same for this video. Well done sir and please never stop wowing me 🎉🎉🎉
A wonderful airplane, and the inspiration for Rick Hunter's pane in Robotech (yes, I know. Macross). I do wonder why you chose to use a WW2 film clip when mentioning the postwar Luftwaffe.
The original two RFB fanned aircraft always seems to be interesting to me... although the large, mostly flat, areas behind the fan seemed to be a lot of wetted surface, and therefore drag, with little reason for that large area? I would really like to hear more about why various operators had trouble with them.
With use of lightweight material like fiberglass composites..like in the longeze..and advanced engine design and turbopro engines.. This aircraft would be a great fighter... And as a drone theycould be built in great numbers.... I see a great future for a platform like this...manned or unmanned... Great video....
I really been wanting to built my own aircraft, make it as close to a jet as possible yet still be a propeller plane and be affordable to use, i think this just answered a few of my design issues.
It's a brilliant concept. Why it was never fully invested in by any air force or even private organisations is just odd. A huge missed opportunity. It surely makes huge sense in these financially pressed times to use an aircraft like this instead of a rattly old piston powered trainer. This aircraft could be modified to run on sustainable jet fuel and be a world beater!! It's neat and compact, ruggedly built and is good looking too! I wish them every success with a re-launch of the design. (I am old enough to remember seeing the original demo models at air shows here in the UK!)😊
No. What it is is a really cool LOOKING concept. Which far too many people mistake for a brilliant concept. The very problem that it was trying to solve was itself minimal bordering on nonexistent. While it was arguably cheaper to purchase and operate than a dedicated full jet trainer. It still remained much more expensive than the traditional turbo prop trainers. While introducing a number of new problems and flight characteristics into the mix. And as many have pointed out, pilots in truth have very few issues transitioning from propellers to jets. This was a solution in search of a problem to solve. And the services still needed jet trainers as managing jet engines in flight still needs to be learned. Plus this thing almost certainly has some unique aerodynamic characteristics and problems. Does learning these in any way benefit a pilot transitioning to jet warplanes? This thing almost certainly has some strange angle of attack quirks. Plus all the joys of a high T tail.
I think it was one of these that I saw at a Farnborough airshow once. There was a quite strong headwind right down the main runway, and the plane was able to fly so slowly that it ended up actually hovering right next to where I was spectating. It was quite a sight seeing this small aircraft with a ducted fan at quite a high angle of attack slowing down as it approached, until finally, for a few seconds it was able to actually stop all forward movement. Then it powered up and flew away. Amazing!
One should compare it to a turboprop PC-6, PC-9, PC-21 not an Alpha jet or BAE Hawk. The light turboprop trainer market is very hard to break into, as there are many options available. Unfortunately if the German government doesn't support it, who will buy it?
The first airplane that I saw that had a ducted fan on it like was the Pegasus P-400t. It was a canard style aircraft. I remembered seeing it on the 1980s TV show cartoon called Macross and Robotech. One of the characters in there had one of the XB-NKI Pegasus P-400T I also remembered liking the Edgey Optica too.
@@02ennuu-zg5tb I remember my local Service Merchandise had some of those toys, but they were gone the next time I went there with my parents, and I never saw them again. I did get Transformers Jetfire for Xmas that year, though.
It's a beautiful design. I'm not sure how 'no one really trusts' belongs in the title, seeing as it had just one fatal accident in its development. It's easier to imagine its petite size was more of a barrier to air force jocks. It seems fuel efficiency wasn't/isn't a pressing concern for any military.
One of these planes can be seen parked outside Thailand's Nakhon Phanom airport. I've been curious about this particular plane for quite some time but have never been able to determine its identity.
There were moments in the video where the profile angle makes this aircraft a dead-ringer (shape-wise) to the Airco DH.1. Nice work! Enjoyable and fascinating presentation!
With that efficiency it sounds to me like the perfect platform for an entirely Electric powertrain! With huge power and so cheap and simple to run it could finally be the fantastic aircraft it was always meant to be.
They are going about it all wrong. Come out with an experimental fast build kit for the EAA crowd... Go light weight composites, an off the shelf aircraft motor around 200 horsepower, and a basic glass cockpit for single engine IFR operation under $150K... Generate revenue to get profitable first, then worry about other designs like a General Aviation product or two.
“Fighter Jets developed into costy machines “ when I look at the cost for a sexy F-35 this is a humble understatement. Between a double decker of WWI and a F-35 is a statistical significant increase of cost noticeable. I did some research. For the cost of one F-35 you can buy a fleet of double deckers.
"German engineering". As a German, I am very proud of this ingenuity and creativity, coupled with an unconditional desire for perfection! After the current major crisis of values, this will experience its own revival! This time for the benefit of all mankind! There must be a cure for humanity!
Skip the Gear Reducer ! Add Full Force Ducted ,Gimballed Air Flow for Short Runway ,T&L Its got Junior Harrier Characteristics with a Unique Form in Flight !.
Great vid. One thing, the background music, for me, really took away from the presentation. It drew attention away from the information and subsequent lines of thought, instead the question of " Why is this here?", comes to mind . The information and video presentation was interesting , and neat.
I want to see a medium bomber with a blended wing, using this engine mount. Get the biggest high bypass fan in the civvy world, put it in the middle of a blended wing. Channel air to & from the turbofan so it's stealth af.
Well now i know where the plane used in the the early 1980 Japanese cartoon called RoboTech came from. The hero was flying a Fan plane in the start of the show.
Question for pilots: Why is it inherently different to learn to fly a jet? They're generally faster, but not always. I'm sure they have different considerations for how they handle fuel or emergency shutdowns, but when it comes to just holding the yoke and controlling the machine, isn't it just a matter of varying thust, which props can also do?
Looks like it would be a blast to fly! Probably a little more than the Tweet. The Tweet was fun to fly but very fuel limited to about 1+15 of flight time if you were doing a productive flight profile.
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
You have to admit that the folks at RFB were not afraid to think outside the box. Everything they ever made was unique.
By thinking outside the box. They put the fan in a box.
😮Omg you're talking Outside the box 📦! Pushing the envelope! Out there on the ragged edge! 😮
😮I've seen things man! Things! I tell ya ,things no man should see 😮
At about 2:15 I saw the aircraft with four ducted fans and said, "Holy crapoly." I would love to give that a spin. That's crazy.
Nobody told them that there was a box or even an enveleope to push.
I am so glad to see someone continuing RFB's vision. The Fantrainer was an amazing aircraft and deserves to be continued.
The actual key selling pointz for the RFB Fantrainer was that the fan did not develop much thrust at low rpm, it thus emulated the behaviour of jet engines which require well over 30% throttle to really move a plane. This plane was to be a cheap way to get pilot trainees to accustomed to jet engines behaviour. The German MFD found this to be a solution to a non-problem as pilots found little difficulty in the switch between jets and classic propeller planes.
If you play any flight simulator there isn't much difference in what you do between the two.
@@thomgizziz simulator game might model the flght characteristic wrong, they are not 100 percent accurrate esp. on rare item like this
Simulators are one thing, realistic engineering is another.
The truth is, if someone had a half a brain in the industry, they would have already designed and built a ducted fan internal combustion engine powered aircraft that would have already gotten to Mach 1.1.
It wouldn’t be loud like the Thunderscreech, as the blade ends would have been enclosed by the shroud, similar to a modern high-bypass turbofan.
Nobody seems to be interested at this point, and probably never will be.
The US air force found it to be a problem hence the T-37. For decades USAF pilots would never fly a piston engine.
@@dangeary2134 why would you do that?
Ducted fans, both electric and gas powered, have been used to simulate jet engines in RC model aircraft forever. They work great and can produce exceptional thrust in the same airframe.
but in RC EDF is not energy efficient, with same weight and desain, pushrer prop could fly 4-5 times longer and 3 times further than EDF
@@devilbur0jets are not energy efficient either, the ducted fan was cheaper
This is one of the coolest non-combat aircraft I've ever seen a DARK channel video on!
I'm so pleased that company has the rights for the Fantrainer/Fanliner, but what about all the other ducted fan technology?
Did they get the rights to that?
I would love to see what that four ducted fan VTOL looking thing would look like with modern materials computer aided design and other technological developments.
I'm surprised these didn't garner more interest. With cost being so low, they could get a LOT of potential pilots into seats and use them as a try-out aircraft. If you can't handle a fanjet, then you can't handle a jet.
Personally I think the idea of a duct fan as a pusher design for civil aviation is great. No more exposed spinning props to have to worry about someone walking into. Plus it has to be more efficient than a standard prop.
This layout is pretty close to the top of my list for an e-bike ultralight.
The idea would be the cockpit would be a detachable e-bike.
Behind the cockpit would fold into a trailer.
I'm waiting for the price of thin film solar to come down so I can use it for the top of the wings.
So I can island hop, drop the trailer and let it charge, then hop home.
Carbon fiber is the new fiberglass, it's not even that novel anymore.
Flying 10 miles @ 30mph is my target.
And some inflatable pontoons in case I mess up.
Yeah, there couldn't possibly be a good reason an 80 year old idea has never be successfully commercialized. If you had been paying attention to the experimental (home-built) aircraft designs of the last 50 years you would have noticed that this idea comes back around at least twice a decade and always fails.
@@vicnighthorse Maybe because aviation hasn't had its Tesla moment yet.
The problem is everything between ultralight and airliner has been getting further and further out of reach. Not exactly a healthy environment for new competitors in a severely regulated space.
@@vicnighthorse Never stop trying.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Never give up, never surrender, indeed. I have been an EAA enthusiast for almost 40 years and have seen so many designs (esp. engines) fail but I too have and affinity for the path less taken in airplane design. Never ever put down money on an engine that doesn't yet have several examples flying. I learned that on the hard way.
Hanno Fischer designed virtually the first post war German aircraft even before the bans lifted - this became the RW3 Multoplane and grandfather of the fantrainer. As far as jet like handling goes there was one slight 'flaw' in that the Fantrainer 'blew' part of the rudder which gave enhanced rudder effect particularly at low speed which was UNjet like and could make for some ingrained bad habits eg in a stall turn you get more effect from the propblast . I designed and built a somewhat smaller version of my RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force ) basic trainer specification AFST 5044 (1980) the Slipstream Sapphire (and smaller civil OPAL as a test bed using also the Allison C250 - then used in the GAF Nomad . That program was a fiasco and ended the local aircraft industry with the Pilatus PC7 being bought Hanno was helpful with advice and I had a set of the manuals for the RW3 from the original importer in the 1950s My design had the prop behind the tailsurfaces (also T tail ) and hence no unwanted rudder 'boost'
The idea was to simulate the characteristics and challenges of jet training. A ducted fan design optimized for best fight characteristics and economical operation would still be a great aircraft.
Back years ago I had an RC model of the RFB Fantrainer, it flew outstandingly good I loved flying it. When I move I gave it and bunch of other models away. I wish I had it back.
In the mid 80s I did an internship at RFB. The first planes were to be delivered. We did a few last minute quick fixes day before the customer visits. Thing was a marvel and I still sad it never got wider adoption
The private market would certainly be interested in this if this is comin back!
Thank you for posting this historic video. I got to fly one of these privately owned Fan Tainers in Ingolstadt Germany back in 2012. I believe this was a 400 model, but still climbed and rolled quite well and was, like the video said very economical to fly. At that time I think we were burning about 200 euros/hr.
There still is a privately owned one stationed in Ingolstadt, parked on the same turntable as my flightschool Cessna. Was nice to see this plane in motion, but darn are they loud. Might as well be a jet. 200€/hr is what you pay today for a simple C172, but i guess 2012 it was closer to 100€. Cheers from Munich
$217 dollars an hour is a bloody fortune. It's hard to comprehend that there is anyone out there who can afford it.
Yes, we don't all make 200€ an hour, but many do. Lawyers, doctors, CPA's. It's a trainer, sport plane, not for circling the globe.
@@rael5469 "$217 dollars an hour is a bloody fortune. It's hard to comprehend that there is anyone out there who can afford it."
Well, put it in the context:
"A flight on the L-39 Albatros Jet Fighter in Switzerland costs €3900 for a 30-min flight or €5520 for a 45-min flight.
Alternatively, visitors can choose to fly in the Hawker Hunter Jet which costs €7500 for a 25-min flight."
@@paristo I see what you are saying but we're not talking about exotic jet rides, we're talking basic introductory training aircraft. I remember when you could rent a Cessna 150 for $17 dollars and hour, not including instructor. But I was only making $4 dollars an hour......so even THAT was out of reach for me. The price of a pilot's license and staying proficient has always been out of reach for me. I had the choice of going for it or saving for retirement. It's for rich people, that's for sure.
I grew up just a few miles north of the plant in Mönchengladbach and remember the distinct sound the FanTrainers made. I also saw the one FanLiner designed by the German industrial designer Luigi Colani at an airshow once. Interesting design for sure!
You can see the Luigi Colani designed FanLiner at time mark 4:40.
Right, I was also thrilled as I saw this plane 50 years ago as a 15 years old boy. Sad, that it faced so much resistance.
Why do you keep repeating the same few sentences?
To make the video longer? Not sure.
@@THEROTTINGDOGThank you
different takes edited together
Many of these videos could actually be summed up in about 3 minutes. 3 minutes won't make as much money 😊
Do you want to learn this stuff or not ?
Here's our trainer! Do you guys like it?
Nah, we'll pass...
K, well shoot, maybe we just sell them to the public, then....
Hey, that's a really nifty product you got there! Any chance they could be made into trainers?
My favorite fan plane was the Rohr 2-175. Wish that made it into production.
You list the SEPECAT Jaguar as a trainer! There may have been trainer versions but it was pimarily a Ground Attack aircraft (what we would have termed, back in the day, a Mud Mover). It have the the advantage that after delivering its munitions across the battlefields of Central Europe and as we know now, causing alarm and despondancy amongst the soviet horde, it was a capable fighter too for its journey back to base. It was capable of operating from forward temporary airstrip made out of lengths of Autobahn as it was comparitvely small and light compared to say - the Buccaneer which was originally built for carrier operations and therefore built of sturdier stuff. The Jaguar was not known as a trainer, certainly in the RAF, for that - look at the Hawk.
I believe the original specification was for an advanced trainer particularly from the French side of the project, ultimately such sophistication was not needed for effective training and it was much more expensive to purchase and fly than a purely transonic aircraft like the Hawk.
This video made my day! I love this aircraft! Thanks for doing a video on it!
Man... I promise you, there is few moments in my life that I regret not been a billonaire... this is one of them... I LOVE the Fan-T... it reminds me an acrobatic little plane from Macross/Robotech and I would give one of every duplicated vital organ in my body if I can get one...
The Royal Thai Air Force took the Fantrainer out of service in 1994, replacing them from 1993 with the Aero L-39. While there had been concern about Fantrainer parts availability the fall of the Soviet Union and attractive terms from the Czech Aero company for the trainer/attack variant made acquisition a sensible move.
Many lives were lost during Fantrainer operation brought it to the end.
There's still one (probably non-functioning) Fantrainer standing outside of a restaurant here in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Very hard to miss even when you're driving down the road.
@@RavenAdventwingswhat restaurant?
@@ericbudoryu5716 Ohkajhu Organic Farm Sansai, out by the second ring road.
So I’m guessing it’s considered a turboprop because of its configuration. It really blurs the definition of turboprop and turbofan. Intriguing.
New drinking game: Take a shot every time the narrator says something about this plane's operating costs being below that of trainer jets. You may die of alcohoo poisoning. 😂
😁
If they made that aircraft using modern composites, it might be a whole lot lighter and more agile. It may even be possible to make an electric-powered LSA version for short-flight recreational use. The basic design looks quite good, even by today's standards.
I think a lighter, modernized, electric version of that would attract some recreational interest for sure.
Fantrainer was cool but the Fanliner is still the coolest 2 seater ever. With Colani interior, jet feeling and unbelievable seating position Hanno Fischer made a masterpiece. It was for sale in the late 90´s but as a student I could not afford the 50.000 DM plus the necessary test pilots license. What a shame.
The RW3 shown early in the movie is probably the plane with the highest ratio outside landing / regular landing of all planes :-) Hanno still flew it in his 90ies and may be still doing so.
RFB´s test pilot Knöpfle was an ex-WW2-fighter pilot and I never saw anyone crazier than him :-)
Thank you for covering this little gem of an aircraft! I have always loved the concept and design, since I first read about it about 20 years ago.
According to wikipedia, the main reasons ducted fans have never become useful production aircraft are:
Drawbacks include increased weight due to the added structure of the shroud, a need for precision in tolerances of blade-tip to shroud clearance, a need for better vibration control compared to free-air propellers, and complex duct design requirements. Lastly, when at high angles of attack, the shroud can stall and produce high drag.
Thanks, Dark Skies.
I wish them so much success. Ducted fan especially placed where it aids laminarity of the flow along the fuselage seems like a best option.
Another ducted fan aircraft that didn't do too well was the Optima. It was promoted as a cost effective alternative to helicopters. Unfortunately it had some very nasty stall characteristics, particularly in the event of engine failure. The duct seriously impaired elevator and rudder effectiveness with a dead fan.
Ta.
That civilian version at 4:34 is one gorgeous machine.
It's a beautiful trainer. Very cost effective. I wish it would have found more buyers around the world.
The Edgely Optica was developed and manufactured at Old Sarum near Salisbury, propelled by a ducted fan behind the passenger compartment
That didn't end well either....
It sure was. And appeared in a sci fi movie with Mark Hamill (Slipstream?). I grew up near Old Sarum, saw it many times flying overhead. Usually the yellow one.
Imagine if the P-39 / P-63 had done their mid-craft engine placement but instead of the weird coaxial power shaft to a front propeller, they'd done a ducted fan like this. It would've been amazing.
I bet if you decreased the horsepower of the engine and went to a piston, then go to a 4 seat configuration it would make a great GA aircraft in the American market. Its unique, great visibility, and with the ducted fan you don't have a man-splitter out front. Too bad no one saw it that way.
Can I just say. You deserve Mr Beast kind of money and notoriety for your absolutely phenomenal channel. I've followed you from literally day one and I've always been blown away by your ability to source some of the most interesting footage and provide the most interesting information on the widest spectrum of subjects I've ever seen or watched. If you all agree, give this comment a massive thumbs up and do the same for this video. Well done sir and please never stop wowing me 🎉🎉🎉
A wonderful airplane, and the inspiration for Rick Hunter's pane in Robotech (yes, I know. Macross).
I do wonder why you chose to use a WW2 film clip when mentioning the postwar Luftwaffe.
The original two RFB fanned aircraft always seems to be interesting to me... although the large, mostly flat, areas behind the fan seemed to be a lot of wetted surface, and therefore drag, with little reason for that large area?
I would really like to hear more about why various operators had trouble with them.
With use of lightweight material like fiberglass composites..like in the longeze..and advanced engine design and turbopro engines..
This aircraft would be a great fighter...
And as a drone theycould be built in great numbers....
I see a great future for a platform like this...manned or unmanned...
Great video....
I agree … outside the box thinking
Another great video of an aircraft I had never heard of. Thanks
Love the intro with the F-104! Top Notch.
Excellent video!!
loving the tunes in the videos. gives it a different feel!
Dark has the BEST narrator...hands down...😊
I really been wanting to built my own aircraft, make it as close to a jet as possible yet still be a propeller plane and be affordable to use, i think this just answered a few of my design issues.
It's a brilliant concept. Why it was never fully invested in by any air force or even private organisations is just odd. A huge missed opportunity. It surely makes huge sense in these financially pressed times to use an aircraft like this instead of a rattly old piston powered trainer. This aircraft could be modified to run on sustainable jet fuel and be a world beater!! It's neat and compact, ruggedly built and is good looking too! I wish them every success with a re-launch of the design. (I am old enough to remember seeing the original demo models at air shows here in the UK!)😊
No. What it is is a really cool LOOKING concept. Which far too many people mistake for a brilliant concept. The very problem that it was trying to solve was itself minimal bordering on nonexistent. While it was arguably cheaper to purchase and operate than a dedicated full jet trainer. It still remained much more expensive than the traditional turbo prop trainers. While introducing a number of new problems and flight characteristics into the mix. And as many have pointed out, pilots in truth have very few issues transitioning from propellers to jets. This was a solution in search of a problem to solve. And the services still needed jet trainers as managing jet engines in flight still needs to be learned. Plus this thing almost certainly has some unique aerodynamic characteristics and problems. Does learning these in any way benefit a pilot transitioning to jet warplanes? This thing almost certainly has some strange angle of attack quirks. Plus all the joys of a high T tail.
I think it was one of these that I saw at a Farnborough airshow once. There was a quite strong headwind right down the main runway, and the plane was able to fly so slowly that it ended up actually hovering right next to where I was spectating. It was quite a sight seeing this small aircraft with a ducted fan at quite a high angle of attack slowing down as it approached, until finally, for a few seconds it was able to actually stop all forward movement. Then it powered up and flew away. Amazing!
Great video. I remember these in Mönchengladbach when I was training for my PPl in the 70’s
It's a mid mounted ducted fan POWERED BY A JET TURBINE
Like turboPROP aircraft, right?
@@artysanmobileyes
I remember seeing Popular Mechanics articles about these planes. They showed fantastic promise. I'm sorry they didn't catch on.
Jeez that's good memory
Excellent presentation as always! So sad that a great plane was denied it's full glory.
The T-38 Talon is my favorite trainer jet
The T-38 had every thing the Fantrainer aspired to be but the T-38 had the real feel and speed of a jet fighter.
One should compare it to a turboprop PC-6, PC-9, PC-21 not an Alpha jet or BAE Hawk.
The light turboprop trainer market is very hard to break into, as there are many options available.
Unfortunately if the German government doesn't support it, who will buy it?
Great work!
The first airplane that I saw that had a ducted fan on it like was the Pegasus P-400t. It was a canard style aircraft.
I remembered seeing it on the 1980s TV show cartoon called Macross and Robotech. One of the characters in there had one of the XB-NKI Pegasus P-400T
I also remembered liking the Edgey Optica too.
That would be Rick Hunter.
@@POPNDOUGH
And Lynn Minmay
@@02ennuu-zg5tb I remember my local Service Merchandise had some of those toys, but they were gone the next time I went there with my parents, and I never saw them again. I did get Transformers Jetfire for Xmas that year, though.
I could totally see some techie making an electric version of this
Having trained in T-37s, I prefer the advantages of side-by-side instruction over that offered by the tandem seat arrangement of the RFB.
It's a beautiful design. I'm not sure how 'no one really trusts' belongs in the title, seeing as it had just one fatal accident in its development. It's easier to imagine its petite size was more of a barrier to air force jocks. It seems fuel efficiency wasn't/isn't a pressing concern for any military.
Various public servants potentially working with it don't trust it'll get them laid like a jet would 😂
Would make a nice low cost ground attack platform for countries of more modest means. Hell it might even be a candidate for mild thrust vectoring. 🤔
One of these planes can be seen parked outside Thailand's Nakhon Phanom airport. I've been curious about this particular plane for quite some time but have never been able to determine its identity.
I couldn't listen because of the obnoxious noise in the background. I think it was an electrical guitar or some thing
After watching this video I have to admit this is a smart concept and a very attractive plane.
There were moments in the video where the profile angle makes this aircraft a dead-ringer (shape-wise) to the Airco DH.1. Nice work! Enjoyable and fascinating presentation!
Interesting video!
Honestly If I see something like this flying, I am buying it❤
Kinda reminds me of the Edgley EA-7.
The RFD Fantrainer flew 2 years before the Edgley EA-7.
Germany was technalogically ahead of all other countries with their aircraft and design ideas.
This feels like it was written by chat gpt and/or a kid trying to reach a word requirement for their school paper.
📠📠📠
I made a RFB fan Trainer as a model with an .049 engine to heavy I never made it out of ground effect but fun )
Great content
I recall seeing this plane in Popular Science magazine. It really made me want to fly.
I’m so happy that another German company took on the production and legacy of this beautiful airplane
Very interesting explanation about this plane I've liked very much since my young times.
Someone went to the William Shatner school of speaking.
And failed
I am up to 04:00 minutes and you have repeated the same thing al least 3 times.
This thing must have been the inspiration behind Rick Hunter's Mockingbird Fanjet
The exposure this video is giving this design may well reignite interest within the civil aviation community.
With that efficiency it sounds to me like the perfect platform for an entirely Electric powertrain! With huge power and so cheap and simple to run it could finally be the fantastic aircraft it was always meant to be.
I had the same thought!
They are going about it all wrong. Come out with an experimental fast build kit for the EAA crowd... Go light weight composites, an off the shelf aircraft motor around 200 horsepower, and a basic glass cockpit for single engine IFR operation under $150K... Generate revenue to get profitable first, then worry about other designs like a General Aviation product or two.
The heavy metal music is way too noisy in the background.
“Fighter Jets developed into costy machines “ when I look at the cost for a sexy F-35 this is a humble understatement. Between a double decker of WWI and a F-35 is a statistical significant increase of cost noticeable. I did some research. For the cost of one F-35 you can buy a fleet of double deckers.
"German engineering". As a German, I am very proud of this ingenuity and creativity, coupled with an unconditional desire for perfection! After the current major crisis of values, this will experience its own revival! This time for the benefit of all mankind! There must be a cure for humanity!
Once again Germany is now the largest manufacturer of jet aircraft in Europe
The tone of the narrator's voice, and the insip rock and roll background music, and I was done at 1:07.
11:10 D-EATR isn't something I'd want on my aircraft 😮
What is up with the low background metal music...?
Hopefully a one-time miscalculation.
That is a happy turn in aviation.
The idea is brilliant
Fascinating, I've never seen this type of craft before.
Skip the Gear Reducer ! Add Full Force Ducted ,Gimballed Air Flow for Short Runway ,T&L Its got Junior Harrier Characteristics with a Unique Form in Flight !.
I actually had the pleasure of flying this fine aircraft many years ago on MS flight simulator X.
Haha. The 400 or 600?
😂 great twist ending
That's just like the racer flown by Rick Hunter on that fateful day on Macross Island.
Great vid. One thing, the background music, for me, really took away from the presentation. It drew attention away from the information and subsequent lines of thought, instead the question of " Why is this here?", comes to mind . The information and video presentation was interesting , and neat.
The fan design is so good, a certain group of people used it on Oct 7th to get over certain border.
I want to see a medium bomber with a blended wing, using this engine mount. Get the biggest high bypass fan in the civvy world, put it in the middle of a blended wing. Channel air to & from the turbofan so it's stealth af.
Who wrote your lines, ChatGPT?
No i think u might be tho. 😂
That's a Good Looking Bird! Could it compete in the "Advanced Trainer Market" for Civilian Aircraft Training Programs?
Well now i know where the plane used in the the early 1980 Japanese cartoon called RoboTech came from. The hero was flying a Fan plane in the start of the show.
Time to revisit this intriguing design. Maybe for more conventional rather than the trainer aircraft.
Question for pilots: Why is it inherently different to learn to fly a jet? They're generally faster, but not always. I'm sure they have different considerations for how they handle fuel or emergency shutdowns, but when it comes to just holding the yoke and controlling the machine, isn't it just a matter of varying thust, which props can also do?
Looks like it would be a blast to fly! Probably a little more than the Tweet. The Tweet was fun to fly but very fuel limited to about 1+15 of flight time if you were doing a productive flight profile.
How much additional weight with normal military equipment? Would it be able to perform other military duties like FO, COIN functions, etc?
I think it was a great idea. I also think politics and and perhaps unfair competition from the other companies help to scuttle the program.