The Stunning Plane that No One Really Trusts
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- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2023
- During the 1960s, advanced military trainers evolved alongside complex fighter aircraft, demanding better pilot preparation. Amid the rush, a small German company named Rhein Flugzeugbau, RFB, embarked on an unconventional idea; they set out to build a jet that wasn’t a jet at all.
The Fan Trainer was a military trainer pretending to be a fighter jet by replacing the actual engine with a ducted fan behind the cockpit - an approach that offered jet-like agility at a reduced operating cost.
So RFB created a fighter jet like no other, one that has fascinated aviation enthusiasts for decades and is looking to make a comeback…
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You have to admit that the folks at RFB were not afraid to think outside the box. Everything they ever made was unique.
By thinking outside the box. They put the fan in a box.
😮Omg you're talking Outside the box 📦! Pushing the envelope! Out there on the ragged edge! 😮
😮I've seen things man! Things! I tell ya ,things no man should see 😮
At about 2:15 I saw the aircraft with four ducted fans and said, "Holy crapoly." I would love to give that a spin. That's crazy.
Nobody told them that there was a box or even an enveleope to push.
The actual key selling pointz for the RFB Fantrainer was that the fan did not develop much thrust at low rpm, it thus emulated the behaviour of jet engines which require well over 30% throttle to really move a plane. This plane was to be a cheap way to get pilot trainees to accustomed to jet engines behaviour. The German MFD found this to be a solution to a non-problem as pilots found little difficulty in the switch between jets and classic propeller planes.
If you play any flight simulator there isn't much difference in what you do between the two.
@@thomgizziz simulator game might model the flght characteristic wrong, they are not 100 percent accurrate esp. on rare item like this
Simulators are one thing, realistic engineering is another.
The truth is, if someone had a half a brain in the industry, they would have already designed and built a ducted fan internal combustion engine powered aircraft that would have already gotten to Mach 1.1.
It wouldn’t be loud like the Thunderscreech, as the blade ends would have been enclosed by the shroud, similar to a modern high-bypass turbofan.
Nobody seems to be interested at this point, and probably never will be.
The US air force found it to be a problem hence the T-37. For decades USAF pilots would never fly a piston engine.
@@dangeary2134 why would you do that?
I am so glad to see someone continuing RFB's vision. The Fantrainer was an amazing aircraft and deserves to be continued.
Personally I think the idea of a duct fan as a pusher design for civil aviation is great. No more exposed spinning props to have to worry about someone walking into. Plus it has to be more efficient than a standard prop.
This layout is pretty close to the top of my list for an e-bike ultralight.
The idea would be the cockpit would be a detachable e-bike.
Behind the cockpit would fold into a trailer.
I'm waiting for the price of thin film solar to come down so I can use it for the top of the wings.
So I can island hop, drop the trailer and let it charge, then hop home.
Carbon fiber is the new fiberglass, it's not even that novel anymore.
Flying 10 miles @ 30mph is my target.
And some inflatable pontoons in case I mess up.
Yeah, there couldn't possibly be a good reason an 80 year old idea has never be successfully commercialized. If you had been paying attention to the experimental (home-built) aircraft designs of the last 50 years you would have noticed that this idea comes back around at least twice a decade and always fails.
@@vicnighthorse Maybe because aviation hasn't had its Tesla moment yet.
The problem is everything between ultralight and airliner has been getting further and further out of reach. Not exactly a healthy environment for new competitors in a severely regulated space.
@@vicnighthorse Never stop trying.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Never give up, never surrender, indeed. I have been an EAA enthusiast for almost 40 years and have seen so many designs (esp. engines) fail but I too have and affinity for the path less taken in airplane design. Never ever put down money on an engine that doesn't yet have several examples flying. I learned that on the hard way.
Ducted fans, both electric and gas powered, have been used to simulate jet engines in RC model aircraft forever. They work great and can produce exceptional thrust in the same airframe.
but in RC EDF is not energy efficient, with same weight and desain, pushrer prop could fly 4-5 times longer and 3 times further than EDF
@@devilbur0jets are not energy efficient either, the ducted fan was cheaper
This is one of the coolest non-combat aircraft I've ever seen a DARK channel video on!
I'm so pleased that company has the rights for the Fantrainer/Fanliner, but what about all the other ducted fan technology?
Did they get the rights to that?
I would love to see what that four ducted fan VTOL looking thing would look like with modern materials computer aided design and other technological developments.
I'm surprised these didn't garner more interest. With cost being so low, they could get a LOT of potential pilots into seats and use them as a try-out aircraft. If you can't handle a fanjet, then you can't handle a jet.
This video made my day! I love this aircraft! Thanks for doing a video on it!
Thank you for covering this little gem of an aircraft! I have always loved the concept and design, since I first read about it about 20 years ago.
Back years ago I had an RC model of the RFB Fantrainer, it flew outstandingly good I loved flying it. When I move I gave it and bunch of other models away. I wish I had it back.
I wish them so much success. Ducted fan especially placed where it aids laminarity of the flow along the fuselage seems like a best option.
Hanno Fischer designed virtually the first post war German aircraft even before the bans lifted - this became the RW3 Multoplane and grandfather of the fantrainer. As far as jet like handling goes there was one slight 'flaw' in that the Fantrainer 'blew' part of the rudder which gave enhanced rudder effect particularly at low speed which was UNjet like and could make for some ingrained bad habits eg in a stall turn you get more effect from the propblast . I designed and built a somewhat smaller version of my RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force ) basic trainer specification AFST 5044 (1980) the Slipstream Sapphire (and smaller civil OPAL as a test bed using also the Allison C250 - then used in the GAF Nomad . That program was a fiasco and ended the local aircraft industry with the Pilatus PC7 being bought Hanno was helpful with advice and I had a set of the manuals for the RW3 from the original importer in the 1950s My design had the prop behind the tailsurfaces (also T tail ) and hence no unwanted rudder 'boost'
The idea was to simulate the characteristics and challenges of jet training. A ducted fan design optimized for best fight characteristics and economical operation would still be a great aircraft.
Thank you for posting this historic video. I got to fly one of these privately owned Fan Tainers in Ingolstadt Germany back in 2012. I believe this was a 400 model, but still climbed and rolled quite well and was, like the video said very economical to fly. At that time I think we were burning about 200 euros/hr.
There still is a privately owned one stationed in Ingolstadt, parked on the same turntable as my flightschool Cessna. Was nice to see this plane in motion, but darn are they loud. Might as well be a jet. 200€/hr is what you pay today for a simple C172, but i guess 2012 it was closer to 100€. Cheers from Munich
$217 dollars an hour is a bloody fortune. It's hard to comprehend that there is anyone out there who can afford it.
Yes, we don't all make 200€ an hour, but many do. Lawyers, doctors, CPA's. It's a trainer, sport plane, not for circling the globe.
@@rael5469 "$217 dollars an hour is a bloody fortune. It's hard to comprehend that there is anyone out there who can afford it."
Well, put it in the context:
"A flight on the L-39 Albatros Jet Fighter in Switzerland costs €3900 for a 30-min flight or €5520 for a 45-min flight.
Alternatively, visitors can choose to fly in the Hawker Hunter Jet which costs €7500 for a 25-min flight."
@@paristo I see what you are saying but we're not talking about exotic jet rides, we're talking basic introductory training aircraft. I remember when you could rent a Cessna 150 for $17 dollars and hour, not including instructor. But I was only making $4 dollars an hour......so even THAT was out of reach for me. The price of a pilot's license and staying proficient has always been out of reach for me. I had the choice of going for it or saving for retirement. It's for rich people, that's for sure.
Excellent presentation as always! So sad that a great plane was denied it's full glory.
Man... I promise you, there is few moments in my life that I regret not been a billonaire... this is one of them... I LOVE the Fan-T... it reminds me an acrobatic little plane from Macross/Robotech and I would give one of every duplicated vital organ in my body if I can get one...
Great video. I remember these in Mönchengladbach when I was training for my PPl in the 70’s
I grew up just a few miles north of the plant in Mönchengladbach and remember the distinct sound the FanTrainers made. I also saw the one FanLiner designed by the German industrial designer Luigi Colani at an airshow once. Interesting design for sure!
You can see the Luigi Colani designed FanLiner at time mark 4:40.
Right, I was also thrilled as I saw this plane 50 years ago as a 15 years old boy. Sad, that it faced so much resistance.
The original two RFB fanned aircraft always seems to be interesting to me... although the large, mostly flat, areas behind the fan seemed to be a lot of wetted surface, and therefore drag, with little reason for that large area?
I would really like to hear more about why various operators had trouble with them.
Another great video of an aircraft I had never heard of. Thanks
There were moments in the video where the profile angle makes this aircraft a dead-ringer (shape-wise) to the Airco DH.1. Nice work! Enjoyable and fascinating presentation!
My favorite fan plane was the Rohr 2-175. Wish that made it into production.
The private market would certainly be interested in this if this is comin back!
Thanks, Dark Skies.
I really been wanting to built my own aircraft, make it as close to a jet as possible yet still be a propeller plane and be affordable to use, i think this just answered a few of my design issues.
Another ducted fan aircraft that didn't do too well was the Optima. It was promoted as a cost effective alternative to helicopters. Unfortunately it had some very nasty stall characteristics, particularly in the event of engine failure. The duct seriously impaired elevator and rudder effectiveness with a dead fan.
Ta.
Fascinating, I've never seen this type of craft before.
loving the tunes in the videos. gives it a different feel!
You list the SEPECAT Jaguar as a trainer! There may have been trainer versions but it was pimarily a Ground Attack aircraft (what we would have termed, back in the day, a Mud Mover). It have the the advantage that after delivering its munitions across the battlefields of Central Europe and as we know now, causing alarm and despondancy amongst the soviet horde, it was a capable fighter too for its journey back to base. It was capable of operating from forward temporary airstrip made out of lengths of Autobahn as it was comparitvely small and light compared to say - the Buccaneer which was originally built for carrier operations and therefore built of sturdier stuff. The Jaguar was not known as a trainer, certainly in the RAF, for that - look at the Hawk.
I believe the original specification was for an advanced trainer particularly from the French side of the project, ultimately such sophistication was not needed for effective training and it was much more expensive to purchase and fly than a purely transonic aircraft like the Hawk.
If they made that aircraft using modern composites, it might be a whole lot lighter and more agile. It may even be possible to make an electric-powered LSA version for short-flight recreational use. The basic design looks quite good, even by today's standards.
I think a lighter, modernized, electric version of that would attract some recreational interest for sure.
A wonderful airplane, and the inspiration for Rick Hunter's pane in Robotech (yes, I know. Macross).
I do wonder why you chose to use a WW2 film clip when mentioning the postwar Luftwaffe.
Nice! I wonder if it can finally find a niche market as its been designed and implemented very well with so many benefits.
Looks like it would be a blast to fly! Probably a little more than the Tweet. The Tweet was fun to fly but very fuel limited to about 1+15 of flight time if you were doing a productive flight profile.
Love the intro with the F-104! Top Notch.
It's a beautiful trainer. Very cost effective. I wish it would have found more buyers around the world.
Would make a nice low cost ground attack platform for countries of more modest means. Hell it might even be a candidate for mild thrust vectoring. 🤔
Excellent video!!
Fantrainer was cool but the Fanliner is still the coolest 2 seater ever. With Colani interior, jet feeling and unbelievable seating position Hanno Fischer made a masterpiece. It was for sale in the late 90´s but as a student I could not afford the 50.000 DM plus the necessary test pilots license. What a shame.
The RW3 shown early in the movie is probably the plane with the highest ratio outside landing / regular landing of all planes :-) Hanno still flew it in his 90ies and may be still doing so.
RFB´s test pilot Knöpfle was an ex-WW2-fighter pilot and I never saw anyone crazier than him :-)
I made a RFB fan Trainer as a model with an .049 engine to heavy I never made it out of ground effect but fun )
Great work!
One of these planes can be seen parked outside Thailand's Nakhon Phanom airport. I've been curious about this particular plane for quite some time but have never been able to determine its identity.
I remember seeing Popular Mechanics articles about these planes. They showed fantastic promise. I'm sorry they didn't catch on.
Jeez that's good memory
Honestly If I see something like this flying, I am buying it❤
I bet if you decreased the horsepower of the engine and went to a piston, then go to a 4 seat configuration it would make a great GA aircraft in the American market. Its unique, great visibility, and with the ducted fan you don't have a man-splitter out front. Too bad no one saw it that way.
With use of lightweight material like fiberglass composites..like in the longeze..and advanced engine design and turbopro engines..
This aircraft would be a great fighter...
And as a drone theycould be built in great numbers....
I see a great future for a platform like this...manned or unmanned...
Great video....
I agree … outside the box thinking
I recall seeing this plane in Popular Science magazine. It really made me want to fly.
Having trained in T-37s, I prefer the advantages of side-by-side instruction over that offered by the tandem seat arrangement of the RFB.
The Royal Thai Air Force took the Fantrainer out of service in 1994, replacing them from 1993 with the Aero L-39. While there had been concern about Fantrainer parts availability the fall of the Soviet Union and attractive terms from the Czech Aero company for the trainer/attack variant made acquisition a sensible move.
Many lives were lost during Fantrainer operation brought it to the end.
There's still one (probably non-functioning) Fantrainer standing outside of a restaurant here in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Very hard to miss even when you're driving down the road.
@@RavenAdventwingswhat restaurant?
@@ericbudoryu5716 Ohkajhu Organic Farm Sansai, out by the second ring road.
So I’m guessing it’s considered a turboprop because of its configuration. It really blurs the definition of turboprop and turbofan. Intriguing.
Can I just say. You deserve Mr Beast kind of money and notoriety for your absolutely phenomenal channel. I've followed you from literally day one and I've always been blown away by your ability to source some of the most interesting footage and provide the most interesting information on the widest spectrum of subjects I've ever seen or watched. If you all agree, give this comment a massive thumbs up and do the same for this video. Well done sir and please never stop wowing me 🎉🎉🎉
It's a beautiful design. I'm not sure how 'no one really trusts' belongs in the title, seeing as it had just one fatal accident in its development. It's easier to imagine its petite size was more of a barrier to air force jocks. It seems fuel efficiency wasn't/isn't a pressing concern for any military.
Looks like a ton of fun to fly
Interesting video!
Kinda reminds me of the Edgley EA-7.
The RFD Fantrainer flew 2 years before the Edgley EA-7.
Germany was technalogically ahead of all other countries with their aircraft and design ideas.
Imagine if the P-39 / P-63 had done their mid-craft engine placement but instead of the weird coaxial power shaft to a front propeller, they'd done a ducted fan like this. It would've been amazing.
Great content
The first airplane that I saw that had a ducted fan on it like was the Pegasus P-400t. It was a canard style aircraft.
I remembered seeing it on the 1980s TV show cartoon called Macross and Robotech. One of the characters in there had one of the XB-NKI Pegasus P-400T
I also remembered liking the Edgey Optica too.
That would be Rick Hunter.
@@POPNDOUGH
And Lynn Minmay
@@02ennuu-zg5tb I remember my local Service Merchandise had some of those toys, but they were gone the next time I went there with my parents, and I never saw them again. I did get Transformers Jetfire for Xmas that year, though.
Neat little aircraft.
One should compare it to a turboprop PC-6, PC-9, PC-21 not an Alpha jet or BAE Hawk.
The light turboprop trainer market is very hard to break into, as there are many options available.
Unfortunately if the German government doesn't support it, who will buy it?
@DarkSkies Could you do a video on the BAE Hawk please?
DANG, I want one ! It's a nice looking ship too !
Makes sense. Hope they endure. Very cool airplane.
I'm starting to wonder if these videos have the dialogue AI scripted (and voiced) because the information repeats often over and over again with a slightly different variation. Cool aircraft though.
When the voice says four twenty instead of four hundred and 20.. you know it's not real or the person reading has no idea what they're saying.
That is a happy turn in aviation.
very cool, why have I not seen this tech before?
That civilian version at 4:34 is one gorgeous machine.
The Edgely Optica was developed and manufactured at Old Sarum near Salisbury, propelled by a ducted fan behind the passenger compartment
That didn't end well either....
It sure was. And appeared in a sci fi movie with Mark Hamill (Slipstream?). I grew up near Old Sarum, saw it many times flying overhead. Usually the yellow one.
Did anyone else notice the tail marking? D- EATR. ( Death eater) a stretch I know but intriguing none the less.
Why do you keep repeating the same few sentences?
To make the video longer? Not sure.
@@THEROTTINGDOGThank you
different takes edited together
Many of these videos could actually be summed up in about 3 minutes. 3 minutes won't make as much money 😊
Do you want to learn this stuff or not ?
That's just like the racer flown by Rick Hunter on that fateful day on Macross Island.
An excellent and innovative design that should have cought on. A contra rotating propeller would have reduced the yaw on take off.
Question would aircraft make a good ground support aircraft like the Bronco or a cheaper version of a A10 what do you think
Interesting, thank you.
This is so cool 😎 that every civilian wants to fly with this 😊🎉
You would need deep pockets for the certification process and the litigation from American pilots not able to make the transition to type without killing themselves. Perhaps an experimental kit would be better. It’s very desirable to look at.
Time to revisit this intriguing design. Maybe for more conventional rather than the trainer aircraft.
This thing must have been the inspiration behind Rick Hunter's Mockingbird Fanjet
The idea is brilliant
That's a Good Looking Bird! Could it compete in the "Advanced Trainer Market" for Civilian Aircraft Training Programs?
According to wikipedia, the main reasons ducted fans have never become useful production aircraft are:
Drawbacks include increased weight due to the added structure of the shroud, a need for precision in tolerances of blade-tip to shroud clearance, a need for better vibration control compared to free-air propellers, and complex duct design requirements. Lastly, when at high angles of attack, the shroud can stall and produce high drag.
Inspiration for Rick Hunters bird in Robotech.
That is Macross. 🙂
ducted fans are neat, I wonder if an EDF plane like this could work.
I could totally see some techie making an electric version of this
Here's our trainer! Do you guys like it?
Nah, we'll pass...
K, well shoot, maybe we just sell them to the public, then....
Hey, that's a really nifty product you got there! Any chance they could be made into trainers?
Great episode, to be honest, I'll probably forget a good bit of it's content tomorrow, not being rude just my brain, but the soundtrack to this is whopper 👍👍
This aircraft looks like it had some significant influence on the design of the Optica spotter plane in the late 70s
How much additional weight with normal military equipment? Would it be able to perform other military duties like FO, COIN functions, etc?
The T-38 Talon is my favorite trainer jet
The T-38 had every thing the Fantrainer aspired to be but the T-38 had the real feel and speed of a jet fighter.
Guess that's where the Fan Racer in the pilot episode of Macross got the idea from.
New drinking game: Take a shot every time the narrator says something about this plane's operating costs being below that of trainer jets. You may die of alcohoo poisoning. 😂
😁
There are a pair of these at the Royal Thai Airforce Museum in Bangkok. And some parts lying around, too.
It seems like a no brainer. I wonder why it didn't catch on as much as I would think it would.
I'm wondering if the RFB plane, although cheaper than a jet, maybe costs more than a traditional prop plane?
Well now i know where the plane used in the the early 1980 Japanese cartoon called RoboTech came from. The hero was flying a Fan plane in the start of the show.
11:10 D-EATR isn't something I'd want on my aircraft 😮
Cool little plane!
The heavy metal music is way too noisy in the background.
I hope they make a go of it!
With that efficiency it sounds to me like the perfect platform for an entirely Electric powertrain! With huge power and so cheap and simple to run it could finally be the fantastic aircraft it was always meant to be.
I had the same thought!
That is a very pretty aircraft.
I want to see a medium bomber with a blended wing, using this engine mount. Get the biggest high bypass fan in the civvy world, put it in the middle of a blended wing. Channel air to & from the turbofan so it's stealth af.
Great video and plane. How much faster if it was a canard design, with a V-tail instead of T-tail?