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TESTING MY ILFORD DELTA 3200 THAT IS BROKEN! SO I CAN STILL SHOOT IT?
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- Опубликовано: 16 апр 2023
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Hi Roger, you mentioned that you do not have a densitometer - but you do have it. You can use your spot meter as a densitometer. Just use the reversed enlarger lens (eg for 35mm - 50mm) - and you have a densitometer for relative measurements (if measuring in EVs). If you use the light table - then you can establish the zero point - note that EV. Now take a reading of the clear film - this will give you a relative change in EV that determines density of clear base + fog. Every 1/3 stop in a measurement difference gives you 0.10 density, so if you two readings gives you a stop difference - the density is 0.3 , if it is 2/3 stop - density is 0.20. I am using this method with my Pentax Digital spotter - I have tested this on a Stouffer transmission step wedge - it works like a charm.
Thats amazing. Thanks for that tip!
D23 is a compensating developer, Ansel Adams used it to control contrast. T grain films work best with modern developers such as Tmax developer, DDX, and FX39 .I’ve found Fomapan 400 to be a good match with D23 at 1+2 dilution.
Hi Roger. It's not a film I use often either, but best advice I've had is rate the film at 1000 for exposure, but develop for 3200. So that would be 11mins in Rodinal @ 1:25 for example.
I know this isn't really related to the video, but just wanted to say good on ya for supporting your wife and daughters business thru your videos. From one small business owner too another that's really BIG of you!
I shot my first roll of Ilford Delta 3200 last December. My approach was to shoot it at box speed for the night photos and at ISO 1600 for the indoors photos without flash. Then I let the light meter in my Nikon FE2 decide the shutter speed. I was quite happy with the results when I got the film from the lab.
Thanks! Very logical steps. I was surprised at the 1 person light proof tent you used to get the film from the wound up spool into the tank. I have been using the Lab Box. (Ars-Imago) for quite some time now. I simply put the cassette or spool in the tank, do some maneuvers and the chemicals can go in. Everything during the day in my kitchen.
You are digging deep into this now m8!! Ive often said that the more I dig deeper into film photography, the more I realise just how little I know!!! Great vid bud 🙂
Absolutely! Cheers Iain
woo shoutout!
Cheers Tim
d23 is good for "classical" emulsions (hp5,fp4)
I was a big fan of D23 in the 90s, awesome for 4x5 film!!! I am amazed at how you are able to solve problems, good job!!!
Thanks!
Great work Boss. 400 is way different than trying 3200. Glad you figured it out and can use the rest of the rolls.
Thanks 👍
So I have that exact Darkroom Tent and I pin it down with a couple of heavy cans of beans in the corners to keep it from flopping around. Much easier to deal with when it's pinned down.
Interesting. I have ever only shot two rolls of Delta 3200 ( in over twenty years ), and I was told to rate it @ iso 1250 and develope it @ iso 3200. As for D23 ( an old favourite of Ansel Adams ), it is a neutral developer. It adds nothing nor does it take away anything from the film. It is soft working, though. One of the best.
I love shooting Delta3200, but I always shoot it at 1600 iso or lower (800) and develop in Ilfotec DD-X, which works great for all Ilford Delta frames.
I’m not a chemist either but I’m well into making my own chemistry now. D23, ID-11, Mytol and TF-2 fixer. Love it! Thanks for the video.
where do you source the compounds affordably? I broke it down and it often costs the same as buying commercial devs. :/
@@michaelalexanderjob a range of sources. Normal photographic places which specialise in film and APC pure. I’ve always found it a lot cheaper to make my own. Cost per litre of stock is much cheaper plus I have enough chemicals to make multiple batches.
My understanding was that powder developers need a 24h rest after preparation to be sure all micro_particles of some chemistries are fully dissolved, unless you get too thin negatives.
Thin neg is pretty normal with d3200. I find you have to use the Dev times for x2 the film speed you shoot at if you're going to use the film as a general purpose film. I had no issues with standard times when shooting at very high contrast scenes (gigs/concerts)
Oh, that base fog is normal for d3200
The true sensitivity of Delta 3200 is 1000 iso. The sensitivity was measured by Ilford with the ID-11 developer. Personally I got good results with Delta 3200 developed in ID-11.
Hi ROGER - I always though that Delta 3200 you exposed when you came to Brentwood and Videoed ME was 'THIN' -- I have not had much success with it either but D23 not 'Strong Enough' as only METOL as the Developing Agent . Microphen would have been better. Keep Snapping ! ( PS -- only have ONE EYE in operation now as I had another CATARACT OPERATION yesterday ! )
Thanks Pete. Stay well mate!
Great watching you experiment to get the exposure from the film. With the fog on the leader, I'm guessing it's been hit with x-rays. 1600 will be more suseptable than a normal speed rate of below 400. But at least you can still use it now you've tested
I think that also Matt.
It's actually a 1250 film. I shoot it at 1600 and develop normally except shortening dev by about 10%. I love it in 645 for the grain size for portraits. The grain is diminished even further in 67.
that base fog looks totally normal for d3200 in a long dev time. the base fog is always much denser than compared to tri-x, i dont think there is anything wrong with it. the longer the development time goes, the more the base fog will also increase. some developers are better at handling this than others. considering that d23 does not have any restrainer (like BZT) in it, i would expect it to not be that great with expired films.
d3200 is a speciality film that is meant for extreme contrast situations where you want to be able to salvage some image information no matter how overexposed parts of the image are. as demonstrated in your overexposure test, you will get decent enough results many stops over. however, the actual film speed is ISO 1000 according to ilford themselves, so if just looking at shadow detail, you would want to expose it at around 800. if you imagine for example shooting a concert where the singer has a bright spotlight on him but the rest of the band are not light very much at all, this is where d3200 will shine. your negatives will be printable even though the contrast is very difficult to deal with.
your negatives look quite overdeveloped if you want to use EI400, which is also evident in you having to go all the way down to filter 0. reducing the development time will also reduce your base fog.
I never have issues at 1600 - 2500 ASA. Especially on medium format.
I love D23 but I treat Delta 3200 as a specialty film and use it with Microphen. Got great results rated at 1600 in Microphen (dev as 3200). I thinks since Delta 3200 is not true 3200 ISO it really gains from modern “full speed” developers. Great test, happy you’re liking the D23 👍🏽 Cheers!
Long way to go with D-23 yet. So far so good!
Could try a more aggressive developer like DD-X. You might be loosing some speed with the D23.
I think so!
What I've read for years is that both Delta 3200 and the Kodak equivalent, T-Max P3200, are really 800-1000 speed films designed to push well. If you shoot them at box speed and develop by the published data, you're pushing about two stops, which will mean you have dead shadows -- but the mid tones and highlights will be pretty okay. D-23, on the other hand, is widely said to lose 1/3 stop of true film speed, bringing your Delta 3200 down to a true ISO 800 at best. Having never shot either one myself, I suspect I can do better with them (because of the way I develop -- I use a time and temp as if for a two stop push, but then agitate only every third minute; this gets me 1/3 to 2/3 stop speed increase over what the same developer/film combination would usually do, but with normal contrast), but this is the way they are with published data.
Films do tend to fog with age, and the faster the film, the more fog will build up just from thermal activation of the halide grains. For Delta 3200 two years past expiration, that fog level doesn't look excessive at all -- certainly not what you'd get from modern CT type airport x-rays.
John Finch's D-23 video series (mixing, mixing the replenisher, using the replenisher, and developing with the D-23) are excellent. I've got a batch of D-23 that's been seasoned and had three rolls of replenishment so far; as you note, it's the simplest developer to mix, and the DK-25R replenisher only has one additional ingredient (use of replenisher lets you reuse a liter of D-23 for around 35 rolls of film before you need to mix fresh). Back in 2006 or so, I ran replenished D-23 for about a year (ran the replenishment longer than I should have, didn't know when I stop then, but quit when my negatives started getting thin).
Also, please *please* get a proper stirring paddle. Every time you stir in a glass beaker with a glass thermometer I cringe! One extra bump and you'll break that expensive (if it's mercury, worse if it's gallinstan) thermometer. Stirring paddles are cheap from photo suppliers; they do a better job of mixing chemicals than a round rod shape, they're shatterproof plastic, and some have a flattened end you can use to crush slow-dissolving granules of chemical.
Cheers Mike.
Hi Roger, you're probably getting inundated with comments regarding development and exposure of Delta 3200, so I might as well chip in my tuppenceworth...!
I absolutely hated Delta 3200 for the longest time. I got thin negs, muddy tones, you name it. I was about to swear off it for good when I came across a website with a photographer who raved about the stuff. He went as far as to call it his favourite B/W emulsion, and going by the examples he uploaded, I could see why.
His recipe for success required only two things: using Ilford DD-X and overdeveloping. I have used all manner of developers, and I have to admit this guy was right - no other developer can give the speed increase required to shoot Delta 3200 at box speed and above. The other thing to do is to *always* use the timings for the stop above what you shot, i.e. use the times for 6400 ISO if you metered your exposures at 3200, and so on.
Hey presto! No more thin negs and muddy shadows. Hello snappy highlights, smooth contrast and excellent shadow detail. As far as I know the base fog is actually perfectly normal for this emulsion. Even super-fresh in-date rolls that I've shot all come out with that slightly milky look to them.
So over dev in DDX. Thanks. DDX is a very good developer. I've used it many times in the past. Interesting. Thanks.
I had the same results with my Delta 3200 in DD-X. If you read the technical data sheet, it says it's a 1000 ASA, in daylight, film. The dev times for it range from 400 to 125000, so you're lead to believe it just pushes well while retaining dynamic range better than other stocks. Shot and developed per their specs at 3200, my negatives are just as thin a yours, and it kinda has the standard Ilford Delta base fog. I was going to throw the rest of my 3200 away to avoid making the mistake of shooting it again, but instead gave it to someone I didn't particularly like; it was a malicious act, I gave them no warning.
I tried XTol with similar results, but D76 with this jawn is the business
Malicious film gifts 😂
If I remember correctly, the 3200 is in fact a 1000 speed film, which is only marketed as "3200" , so some pushing is already part of the game. Rest might be due to age/storage/xray etc ? Anyway, great video and results 👍🏻
I think it's 800 from what I read.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss It's a tgrain film - a proper developer will boost the speed a bit.
I've always wanted to use Ilford Delta 3200, but I've always struggled with it. My negs have always been thin. I wonder if I should increase the development to get the speed out of the film.
Others suggesting DDX Developer. Just do some tests James.
Apparently Delta 3200 true film speed is 1000 asa and can be pushed to 3200.
Anhydrous - contains no water.
Ahh... Cheers
IMO d23 is arguably one of the least suitable developers for delta 3200
tmax-like developers are much better
or at least d76/id11
note: if you are happy with shooting it at 400 ei then d23 is obviously ok
Yes I'll try a roll at 400 out on the streets and develop in D-23 see how it turns out.
It sure does look like xray fog. That 3200 is definitely sensitive to xray - I don't take it on vacation anymore after similar experiences with fogging. It doesn't age well either. I love that stock, but it's the only stock I don't trust to freeze past the expiration date.
Looks about how mine looked frozen and never sent through an x-ray... The base fog is pretty thicccc.
Sorry, I forgot the most relevant part. I have been searching for information about risks for films by X ray scanners for over 10 years. The results are very meagre. A very few times I was assured that up to 800 ISO, all was fine. Once, that up to 1600, all was fine. This doesn’t get you any further. My recommendation is to contact Ilford. I have found them to be very friendly and helpful.
I think P3200 and Delta 3200 are nominally 1000. I wonder if the developer is also robbing you of some speed.
P3200 is actually rated at 1000 ISO. It can be pushed to 3200. Good guess.
My previous rolls were developed in Rodinal and were still thin Dane. I never knew but other saying D-23 reduces speed. So possibly.
I developed at recommended and it came out 1000 lol. Shoot 3200 develop 6400
Ja już dawno zrezygnowałem z ilforda 3200. Od kilku lat nie mogę dojść do dobrego obrazu.
You don't use your food microwave do you?
Only to develop good taste ;)
Of course.... just don't tell my wife!
This film, even fresh, is the most deceitful Ilford can offer. Even with high end developers like Ilford DDX that should work like a a charm with it don't hold up either. It's just meh and the best pictures I've seen with it were studio shots. So not the low light scenes you'd think a fake "3200 iso" would come in handy. Tmax P3200 is better but grainy as fuck most of the times. I like, for settings with high contrast ratios (1 to 4 and beyond) with soft lights to push Tmax 400 to 3200 and developing it for way longer than Kodak recommands in Tmax Dev : usually 11.5min at 24°C. When you nail the exposure you have nice contrast and less grain than a Tri-X or Hp5. It's as finicky as shooting slide but it worths it 😂
D23 lowers your ISO and also IMHO is not the best to use with Delta 3200 since its a real ISO 1000 film and D23 is not very good at pushing
We'll see how another roll goes out on the streets.