I absolutely LOVE Queen Catherine of Aragon. Truly a woman ahead of her and sincerely remarkable. She is so interesting to learn about. I have a great admiration for her strengths and the deepest of sympathies for her plights later in life. This has been my favorite educational video on Queen Catherine of Aragorn. Very fascinating and educational. Wonderful video!! Cannot wait for the next one!! Sending everyone love and good wishes this holidays season!!! Have a groovy one, fellow history lovers!!
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n In every way, couldnt win any wars, but bankrupted the country in his pointless wars, couldnt father any kids that lived (only 4 surviving childhood, but only 2 becoming adults), destroyed the religion of his parents, he actually petitioned for the defender of the faith title, which was an honour bestowed to more important kingdoms a.k.a. France & Spain, he spent 2 large fortunes ( his fathers & the money from the destruction of the monasteries), he destroyed around 95% of the cultural heritage of England and by the end of his life, he had lost his "good looks", had supurating ulcers, was most likely impotent and a cuckold by Katherine Howard and he was basically rotting inside- out. He was a over inflated loser every way you look at it
I wanted to thank you for the handling of your mentions of Juana. Incidentally, Henry VII planned to marry Juana after Philip died, and refused to believe stories of her mental instability (he had actually met Juana, briefly, when she and Philip travelled to Spain for the second and last time; and knew about her stalwart championship of Margaret of York in 1499). Catherine, as ambassador, was a participant in promoting this possible marriage.
I always wonder how different life would have been for poor Juana had she actually married Henry VII. I think she certainly wouldn't have been locked away, that's for sure.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople It's intriguing to think about: who knows, she might have been able to promote Catherine's cause by her relationship with Henry. Even her most despicable jailor, Denia, admitted that Juana's eloquence could move stones.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I think that with an ambitious and ruthless father, like her, her best option was inmediately to marry anybody else who was powerful enough to shield her from her family trying to usurp her power, its the only scenario where i can see a better outcome for her horrible destiny
I think if you want a clear picture of Catherine of Aragon, the HBO series, The Tudors does a PHENOMENAL JOB! After watching that, and doing research to verify that it was mostly accurate (some timelines were off), I was shocked that Catherine wasn’t nominated for sainthood considering her intense devotion to the Catholic faith and her complete celibacy except to Henry the 8th. Anyway, that show REALLY ILLUSTRATES her plight during Henry’s courting of Anne, her exile after ward and her downgrade to dowager duchess, not to mention her complete and utter removal and separation from her one and only child. It also shows her intense love, devotion, tolerance, compassion, empathy and forgiveness for her husband King Henry the 8th continuously throughout her being repeatedly humiliated and betrayed by him and Anne Boleyn. Her humility and devotion to God is truly admirable and her story should be shared but in a way really expressing her character and deep strength amongst impossible odds. She always kept her dignity and grace, never lost her temper or displayed unbecoming of a queen, something Henry really came to admire and appreciate about her once she was gone. In that same vain, I think Mary kind of gets a rough time too. When you see her childhood, on the Tudors, you can start to understand why she was so fervent about her faith and staunch about getting married and having a child. I seriously cannot recommend that series enough, but be forewarned, there definitely are some things that are wrong or embellished for tv purposes and there’s a ton of sexual scenes. Still, the overall plot follows history and really flushed out the people true essences and what actually happened in a way that’s very understandable, if not extremely binge able. The biggest difference is the casting of Henry, as he doesn’t look like the tall ginger we’re used to, but trust me… you won’t mind. Henry Cavill is a main character, as well as Sam Neill, Natalie Dormer and Jeremy Northam. Johnathyn Rhys Myers plays Henry VIII. If you watch it and like it, come back and let me know😊
I must admit, I loved that series when it was on TV, even with any historical inaccuracies! 🤣 It was a lot of fun to watch, and there were things they got spot on (not costumes lol).
I personally think it irrelevant if the consuumation happened or not. What is more astounding to me is that she stuck to her guns for -years- that it hadn't, while waiting to be wed to Henry. Those were not easy times, and at any point she could have thrown in the towel, and requested to be sent home, where she could have wed someone else, although of obv less status. That she had the ambition to reach for the crown of England, and the determination to hold out through those years of hardship and poverty to get there, is a greater testament to her character than whether or not she had sex with Arthur. Henry should have known by that example alone that he could never have convinced her to step aside for a new queen
You're absolutely right, and throughout making the video I kept thinking about the fact that I felt it didn't matter I'd she had slept with Arthur or not. But Catherine knew it was her best argument against Henry's (especially as it couldn't be proven).
Thankyou. What a badly treated & yet remarkable lady! Shame her daughter’s bitterness blighted the possibility of mother’s spirit leading her in a great reign……
You're right, but I do have some sympathy for Mary considering what she had to go through (although I draw the line at burning people for their religion!).
Another beautiful production about Katherine of Aragon. A remarkable woman of unwavering resilience. Sorry I haven't been able to watch your content for a while due to long covid, thankfully feeling better now. Hope you have had a wonderful time in the festive season. Fascinating storytelling as always. Thank you 💕
Although people say that she had an unrequited love and rejected and...(you know) I kinda don't buy such a thing! I believe that Henry was just too obsessed with having an heir the way it totally blinded his eyes about what Catherine truly meant to him! even if their relationship turned intense because of Catherine's constant miscarriages and stillborn children and ultimately no longer getting pregnant, but it's obvious that she was a huge part of Henry's life ever since he was a teenager! she meant a lot to him and his spirit than any of his other wives, because with her, he literally grew up! being separated from her, was the start of his descent into madness, isolated him and tire him from the life he had and how he grew up for two decades and as we all know, Catherine, unlike other 5 wives actually did have nice memories with him and had seen the best parts of him! having to abandon her, probably was like cutting out a part of his own body, what created his personality and soul and no wonder he started to loose it ever since he lost her! (all of this is coming from someone who's favorite is Anne Boleyn) anyway, although I believe Catherine's ending is sad, but I still think it's no where near as tragic and painful as that of his sister's Juana💔💔💔
You're absolutely right in that we often forget that out of all 6 of his wives, Catherine had the most years with him, and saw something in him that made her dedicate herself to him. I wonder how much he regretted what he had done years later.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople well, I don't know about the regret part, but I'm sure that being separated from her truly did a number on him! his descent into madness started from that moment as if he had killed a part of himself! which is expected as I said. she was one of the most important elements that created his personality and soul and imagine when you loose such an important person, is like literally killing a huge part of yourself and never being able to take it back
But if she did not want him overthrown for not having a male heir and keep England Catholic when he started to lean to getting rid of her she had to bite the bullet and go into a Nunnery voluntarily if she could Spain might still have objected to force the English into a squabble over Henry's failure to produce a heir. Normally Henry would have just shoved her in a Nunnery the standard divorce then. Her status as loyal to the Catholic Church is week if she knew he was considering the break before he did it and did not offer to join a nunnery if he did not break with the Church. @@HistorysForgottenPeople
It's true that Isabel. eldest daughter of the Catholic Kings, was sent home after her husband, Afonso of Portugal, died in horse riding accident. It is true that she stated she didn't want to marry again. In the event, she was married to Afonso's successor, Manuel, in 1497. She died in childbirth in August of 1498, and her little baby, Miguel, died in 1500. He is buried in vault of the Cathedral of Granada with Isabel, Fernando, Juana and Philip. Important to know is that Catherine's brother, Juan, died in 1497, before Catherine left for England. He had been married to Margaret of Austria, sister of Philip of Burgundy. Philip, as mentioned, was married to Juana, Catherine's elder sister. Catherine would have been present for the deaths of Juan, young Isabel and little Miguel, and would have been witness to what these deaths did to her mother. There is usually not much, if any, question about the result of consummation of a royal marriage, so the very fact that there is one feeds my belief that there was no consummation. We also have a letter from Isabel reflecting that Catherine's duena, Elvira Manuel, swore that Catherine was still a virgin. You didn't want to lie to Isabel, especially about something so important. Elvira would have taken an awful chance playing that kind of game, so my belief in non-consummation is strengthened by Elvira's communication to Isabel.
Poor lady. Her heart was so broken and hurt it grew into a tumor. I truly believe that. Our thoughts and emotions can and do effect the physical. Death must have been a release.
Sometimes, I wonder what if Arthur hadn’t died from the sweating sickness and managed to succeed Henry VII as King of England. Things would've been so different to Katherine had she remained married to Arthur instead of Henry VIII From what I've heard, Arthur was a lot like his father (albeit, I believe he was a bit naive and gullible at times), but I do think as time passed, he would've grown to be a faithful and devoted husband to her (instead of Henry VIII, who is said to be a lot like their grandfather Edward IV) But history would've been so different with King Arthur Tudor on the throne. Anne Boleyn wouldn't have gone to history. The Reformation wouldn't have happened. Edward VI, Mary I and Elizabeth I would've never been born. Maybe even the Stuarts would’ve never replaced the Tudors, and another branch or other dynasty would've succeeded them. So many questions
Oooh, I love doing this, but you can really end up down a big rabbit hole! 😂 I sometimes wonder if I could get away with making a channel that is basically considering 'what if's from history, but it might be a bit unwieldy as well.
Oooh finally some Katherine!! One of my favourite Queens of England and my favourite of those of Henry VIII by far. A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family:))
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family, too! 😊 I just HAD to do one on Catherine eventually. The next one will be harder though, I don't like poor Anne Boleyn very much!
@@HistorysForgottenPeople oof same I loathe her ngl😭 Ikik, a strong word for a woman who was executed, but the more I learn about her the more I hate her😭 good luck!
It’s my son’s 2nd Christmas and he is 22 months old - I can’t sleep because I am so excited to see his face tomorrow morning (Christmas day)!! This will help me relax though - 🙏🏼
RUclips recommended your video on Katherine Howard, so having an interest in the wives of Henry VIII, I watched and have made my way through most of the others (I think I just have Anne Boleyn left to watch), but Katherine of Aragon has always been my favorite. She really was the pinnacle of a medieval queen and had such a strong character. Even after all she was put through, she retained her dignity and grace until the end.
Absolutely! Henry likely would have had mistresses and 'flings' with those female subjects he was attracted to. However, had their son lived, I firmly believe he'd have never for an instant considered having their marriage annulled and likely would have given her respect (if not fidelity) as his heir's mother for the rest of her life and he wouldn't have forcibly and cruelly separated her from her offspring as he did with the surviving Mary. Now, had he outlived her, it's likely he'd have remarried but almost certainly to another Continental princess instead of any of his subjects.
Catherine is often known as "The old hag" but she was much more,she was strong,kind,beautiful and so loyal and determined. She was King Henry's true wife.
I don't understand how people praise and feel bad for Anne Boleyn. She only brought confusion and tension to the crown. Catherine was an actual queen and was done wrong by her husband. Anne thought she was different and was shown that she wasn't 🤦🏾♀️.
or maybe it's you that fails to understand that it wasn't Anne who came after Henry, it was the other way around! Anne was in love with someone else and had a total different life! and considering Catherine no longer being able to get pregnant, Henry would've literally abandon her for anyone who appeared on his way, even if it wasn't Anne and instead was some other religious stubborn girl! Henry because of his obsession ripped away everything nice in her life, her love, her chances in other courts of Europe which were high before all of the mess started, and her hopes for future, only to decide to get rid of her and remove her from existence
I do feel some sympathy for Anne in that I think there were (as always at that time) men in the form of her father and brother pushing from the back. But that's where my sympathy ends, as you say.
@@balletshoes first of all, she wasn't a mistress at that point, she was his wife, so don't excuse that! and you say she was mean spirited as if she was like that to all people while no, she tried to help and gain the respect and the cruelty towards Mary is also just non-proven story by (I guess I know, everyone who prefers to belief with no evidence) she tried to reach out to Mary only to be rejected every time, but that's not called cruelty. the only person she mistreated, was Catherine and honestly, it's really funny that you people expect anyone to treat their love rival nicely. especially someone like Anne who was having serious mental issues at that point thanks to what Henry put her through for years
@@balletshoes I have read much better things about her and words of actual historians. Not like you who just believes in rumours said by those who weren't even presented
Stop applying modern thinking to the 16th century actions of the past. Ann is basically a modern day women running around w high body counts and taking advantage of men and you would be saying yassss kween go girl if she lived today
Even though we’ve had had a myriad of beauties in the film industry up until recently, Katherine of Aragon has always been considered the most beautiful woman in the world.
She was named after her great-grandmother Catherine of Lancaster who was the daughter of John of Gaunt and his second wife Constance of Castile. Catherine of Lancaster married Henry III of Castile. Technically Catherine of Aragon did have a claim to the English throne stronger than her own husband Henry VIII because she descended from the Plantaganet kings. Could you do a video on Catherine of Lancaster too?
One thing that absolutely needs to be recognized is that it was only Isabella who did the wise rulership of Castile. Not Ferdinand. He was on paper but it was only a formality. She gave him paper supremacy to placate him from being totally cut out of Isabella's Castilian coronation. That was the result of Isabella not tolerating his pathological infidelity and their fights that resulted. Read the awesome book "Isabella: The Warrior Queen" by Kirstin Downey.
I was honestly never impressed by Catherine of Aragon. Her stubbornness was her downfall and it set her daughter up for a miserable life. Yes, Henry was very wrong in how he completely screwed her over but at some point you have to realize that this is a fight you’ll never win and it’s time for a little self-preservation.
You can also say why not relent for the better treatment of her daughter as well? Though she was raised to think she would be queen of England so I understand why she felt entitled. Lol
43:20 bravo! I was rewatching this video and this part brought me to tears. Your sympathy and admiration for her (which I heartily share) really shone through🙏
It's certainly genuine! It's not that I like her more than the other wives, exactly (I have my favourites, but at the end of the day, they were all victims of a horrible monarch), but she absolutely was the rightful queen in my humble opinion, and her situation was only made more sad by the lack of people around her at the end. 😔
Plus Catherine had been raised EXTREMELY Catholic. She had been raised to cherish her virginity above all else, so I doubt she’d be willing to give it up to a complete stranger who’s language she didn’t speak just because they’d been married
It does feel more as though the marriage wasn't consummated, you're right. For me personally though, even if Catherine was lying and she had slept with Arthur, it really wasn't hugely important, and she could see Henry was just trying to be rid of her.
I find it very difficult to believe two teenagers would be married for 6 months and not consummate their marriage. I think Catherine desired to be Queen of England and would have said anything to keep that possibility and maintain it.
My thoughts on it were that possibly there had been what we might call 'adolescent fumbling', and since she hadn't become pregnant, Catherine sorted it in her own mind that was not actual intercourse. Not that I personally think it mattered if she did it with Arthur or not!
Queen Marie Antoinette and her husband King XVI famously had an unconsumated marriage for 7yrs and they were also teens when they wed. So, ya never know... I do agree that indeed Catherine had great ambition to be queen. And, with the Pope dispensation it didn't matter if she and Prince Arthur had relations or not. I think she was a remarkable woman. Far ahead of her time. I have great admiration for her but the deepest of sympathies for her in how she was treated at the end. Wishing you happy holidays and a great New Year, fellow history lover. ❤
Hi awesome live history video I enjoyed it merry Christmas and a happy new year 2024 to you your family and your cat Mallard. How are you both doing? I'm doing well and so is my cat Benjamin. See you next video your fan friend Michelle 😊
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year for 2024, Michelle! 😊 I'm glad to hear you and Benjamin are doing well. Mallard is great; my little boy has been spoiling her with treats all day long, so she is super happy and a little fatter now! 🤣
Soy española, y en mi país, la vida de Catalina de Aragón, no ha sido tan estudiada ni conocida como la de sus padres los Reyes católicos, Isabel y Fernando, o la de su muy conocida hermana, Juana "la loca". Que era una mujer completamente cuerda, y también demostró ser muy valiente e inteligente, más que su marido Felipe "el Hermoso". Muy buen video. Gracias, y saludos desde Málaga, España 🇪🇦, y por cierto, me gusta mucho Inglaterra😊
Henry VIII was the absolute worst. I've been reading and watching books and vids on him for decades. There's always a new tidbit of foulness to learn of him.
Every nation does this. It’s just localisation. If the Spanish can call Elizabeth II ‘Isabel II’ and call Henry VIII ‘Enrique VIII’ then we’ll continue to call her Catherine, which is the English version of Catalina
Hinduism recognizes four stages of adult life -- Kama, Artha, Dharma, and Sith. Kama corresponds to pleasure, followed by resposibility, wisdom, and death. Like the stages of a rose -- bud, rose petals. seed and, decay. Anne was executed 11 days before Jane married Henry VIII. Did Jane make her marriage conditional? Did Henry regret what he'd done to Anne? Anne Bolyen's daughter, Elizabeth, was greatly beloved by Henry VIII and England. Phillip II expected to marry Elizabeth who was much younger than Mary. Liz promised not to marry anyone else. Phillip waited patiently and but Liz never did. She was a virgin who loved her country and led it for 45 years When Phillip came calling with a Spanish Armada in 1588 she and her advisors destroyed the "Armada".
I use a huge amount for different videos, so you'd have to be a bit more specific (which video, for example, and then I can tell you my sources for that video). I use a combination of the ODNB, journals and articles through sites such as JSTOR, and historical non-fiction books from accepted sources (by which I mean usually historians who have studied the subject for many years and are qualified, but obviously there are times this is not the case on more obscure people), as well as historical books contemporary to the time the subject of the video was alive.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I'm doing an assignment for Catherine of Aragon and found this video incredibly easy to follow and understand. Could you give which sources you used for this one? Thanks for making this dissemination of knowledge so convenient!!
So, my completely unpredictable Christmas gift to you is- who would guess- a question 😱😱 How would you rate the Stuart Monarchs from best to worst? For me it’d be (though tbh I don’t rly like any of them) Anne Charles II -now it gets hard- James II?😭 Mary II and William III Charles I James VI and I- one of the worst monarchs of England and Scotland
I thought William and Mary were able to provide stability, something Charles l and James ll weren't able to. Anne was loved, you can't take that from her
As for James VI of Scotland and Ist of England, he was called the English Solomon. Not a name any other English King was called, no-one ever disputed his right to rule
Okay, that is a hard question! I want an easy one next week, haha! 🤣 First would be same as you, Anne, followed by; Charles II James II (gets a pass because he was apparently a nice person in himself). Mary II/William III James IV and I (some redeemable qualities in person, possibly) Charles I (started a civil war, instant Fail, Pass Go and do not collect your money! 🤣) Although honestly, you could lump the bottom 3 (4? Mary-William?) in together for me. All awful, really!
@@suemcgregor9248 who came up with that nickname?😭 his was the reason Elizabeth I was elevated to semi-goddess status- he published a book on the divine authority of kings and how he ought to be followed without question- not to mention his other book on how to hunt, torture and kill witches💀
@@HistorysForgottenPeople ikr it’s hard to order them after Charles II😭 Fo me Charles I and his father would be on the same level, but the former was apparently good for his family, that’s honestly why I put him before the latter😭
I always find the history of royals so interesting and what the women went through was terrible but thats the way it was in those times. Ive done family genealogy and i find a few royal neames showing up on my mothers side. But theres so history there that it gets confusingly confusing to say the least.
I’ve always felt a mix of sympathy and distaste for Anne Boleyn, but there is a hint of karma that she miscarried right after celebrating another women’s death…
I feel the same! I do have sympathy for her as I think she had her father and brother pushing her from the sidelines (I genuinely believe the intelligent, sexy, attractive Anne Boleyn would rather have married a sexy, wealthy young courtier with a well-turned leg over marrying an old, fat king with a smelly leg full of gout personally, others may disagree lol), but the way she behaved towards Catherine of Aragon was horrific.
You're right, I think most of us today wouldn't be so close to our faith as many people were back then. The Reformation proved that there were people literally willing to die for their faith.
Good for Mary of teck to realize that this is a queen who has not been acknowledged as such, and provided a correction
I loved that little fact, I didn't know about that at all!
The late queen's grandmother?
I absolutely LOVE Queen Catherine of Aragon. Truly a woman ahead of her and sincerely remarkable. She is so interesting to learn about.
I have a great admiration for her strengths and the deepest of sympathies for her plights later in life.
This has been my favorite educational video on Queen Catherine of Aragorn. Very fascinating and educational. Wonderful video!! Cannot wait for the next one!!
Sending everyone love and good wishes this holidays season!!! Have a groovy one, fellow history lovers!!
She is definitely my favourite of Henry's wives! She is such an interesting figure in her own right, outside of her famous marriage. Happy Holidays! 😊
She annoyed me keeping hanging around when not wanted
Henry absolutely HATED the fact that Catherine kicked the King of Scotland's ass while he basically lost his campaign in France!
He lost every campaign, he didnt inherit his grandfather military prowess one bit
@@doriamurriola7188You mean Edward IV? Absolutely, Henry was a bt of a loser in that way!
Not that anyone would have had the courage to tell him that to his face!
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n In every way, couldnt win any wars, but bankrupted the country in his pointless wars, couldnt father any kids that lived (only 4 surviving childhood, but only 2 becoming adults), destroyed the religion of his parents, he actually petitioned for the defender of the faith title, which was an honour bestowed to more important kingdoms a.k.a. France & Spain, he spent 2 large fortunes ( his fathers & the money from the destruction of the monasteries), he destroyed around 95% of the cultural heritage of England and by the end of his life, he had lost his "good looks", had supurating ulcers, was most likely impotent and a cuckold by Katherine Howard and he was basically rotting inside- out. He was a over inflated loser every way you look at it
Henry owed her everything for it .. and he threw her away 💔😡
I wanted to thank you for the handling of your mentions of Juana.
Incidentally, Henry VII planned to marry Juana after Philip died, and refused to believe stories of her mental instability (he had actually met Juana, briefly, when she and Philip travelled to Spain for the second and last time; and knew about her stalwart championship of Margaret of York in 1499). Catherine, as ambassador, was a participant in promoting this possible marriage.
I always wonder how different life would have been for poor Juana had she actually married Henry VII. I think she certainly wouldn't have been locked away, that's for sure.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople It's intriguing to think about: who knows, she might have been able to promote Catherine's cause by her relationship with Henry. Even her most despicable jailor, Denia, admitted that Juana's eloquence could move stones.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I think that with an ambitious and ruthless father, like her, her best option was inmediately to marry anybody else who was powerful enough to shield her from her family trying to usurp her power, its the only scenario where i can see a better outcome for her horrible destiny
Henry VII marrying Juana would have created a complicated situation, as she had became queen of Castille after her mother's death.
I think if you want a clear picture of Catherine of Aragon, the HBO series, The Tudors does a PHENOMENAL JOB! After watching that, and doing research to verify that it was mostly accurate (some timelines were off), I was shocked that Catherine wasn’t nominated for sainthood considering her intense devotion to the Catholic faith and her complete celibacy except to Henry the 8th. Anyway, that show REALLY ILLUSTRATES her plight during Henry’s courting of Anne, her exile after ward and her downgrade to dowager duchess, not to mention her complete and utter removal and separation from her one and only child. It also shows her intense love, devotion, tolerance, compassion, empathy and forgiveness for her husband King Henry the 8th continuously throughout her being repeatedly humiliated and betrayed by him and Anne Boleyn. Her humility and devotion to God is truly admirable and her story should be shared but in a way really expressing her character and deep strength amongst impossible odds. She always kept her dignity and grace, never lost her temper or displayed unbecoming of a queen, something Henry really came to admire and appreciate about her once she was gone. In that same vain, I think Mary kind of gets a rough time too. When you see her childhood, on the Tudors, you can start to understand why she was so fervent about her faith and staunch about getting married and having a child. I seriously cannot recommend that series enough, but be forewarned, there definitely are some things that are wrong or embellished for tv purposes and there’s a ton of sexual scenes. Still, the overall plot follows history and really flushed out the people true essences and what actually happened in a way that’s very understandable, if not extremely binge able. The biggest difference is the casting of Henry, as he doesn’t look like the tall ginger we’re used to, but trust me… you won’t mind. Henry Cavill is a main character, as well as Sam Neill, Natalie Dormer and Jeremy Northam. Johnathyn Rhys Myers plays Henry VIII. If you watch it and like it, come back and let me know😊
I must admit, I loved that series when it was on TV, even with any historical inaccuracies! 🤣 It was a lot of fun to watch, and there were things they got spot on (not costumes lol).
Showtime now paramount +
That’s one of my favorite shows. I actually loved Princess Mary.
Saw that series 3 times! I totally agree with you in regards to the portrayal of Catherine.
@@HistorysForgottenPeopleThose costumes were excellent compared to Reigns costumes. That show was so ridiculous it was unwatchable.
I personally think it irrelevant if the consuumation happened or not. What is more astounding to me is that she stuck to her guns for -years- that it hadn't, while waiting to be wed to Henry. Those were not easy times, and at any point she could have thrown in the towel, and requested to be sent home, where she could have wed someone else, although of obv less status. That she had the ambition to reach for the crown of England, and the determination to hold out through those years of hardship and poverty to get there, is a greater testament to her character than whether or not she had sex with Arthur. Henry should have known by that example alone that he could never have convinced her to step aside for a new queen
You're absolutely right, and throughout making the video I kept thinking about the fact that I felt it didn't matter I'd she had slept with Arthur or not. But Catherine knew it was her best argument against Henry's (especially as it couldn't be proven).
Being torn from her daughter and still claiming to being Henry's rightful wife took guts.
Thankyou. What a badly treated & yet remarkable lady! Shame her daughter’s bitterness blighted the possibility of mother’s spirit leading her in a great reign……
You're right, but I do have some sympathy for Mary considering what she had to go through (although I draw the line at burning people for their religion!).
Henry viii burned people too so I'm not surprised.
Catherine had nothing like her own mothered spirit. Once in England her mother didn’t want her back and she hung around clinging on
@@HistorysForgottenPeople
Every monarch did it,
Every single Tudor monarch sucks by today’s standards.
Another beautiful production about Katherine of Aragon. A remarkable woman of unwavering resilience. Sorry I haven't been able to watch your content for a while due to long covid, thankfully feeling better now. Hope you have had a wonderful time in the festive season. Fascinating storytelling as always. Thank you 💕
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺ I'm glad you're feeling better, long covid is bloody awful.
Although people say that she had an unrequited love and rejected and...(you know) I kinda don't buy such a thing! I believe that Henry was just too obsessed with having an heir the way it totally blinded his eyes about what Catherine truly meant to him! even if their relationship turned intense because of Catherine's constant miscarriages and stillborn children and ultimately no longer getting pregnant, but it's obvious that she was a huge part of Henry's life ever since he was a teenager! she meant a lot to him and his spirit than any of his other wives, because with her, he literally grew up! being separated from her, was the start of his descent into madness, isolated him and tire him from the life he had and how he grew up for two decades and as we all know, Catherine, unlike other 5 wives actually did have nice memories with him and had seen the best parts of him! having to abandon her, probably was like cutting out a part of his own body, what created his personality and soul and no wonder he started to loose it ever since he lost her! (all of this is coming from someone who's favorite is Anne Boleyn) anyway, although I believe Catherine's ending is sad, but I still think it's no where near as tragic and painful as that of his sister's Juana💔💔💔
You're absolutely right in that we often forget that out of all 6 of his wives, Catherine had the most years with him, and saw something in him that made her dedicate herself to him. I wonder how much he regretted what he had done years later.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople well, I don't know about the regret part, but I'm sure that being separated from her truly did a number on him! his descent into madness started from that moment as if he had killed a part of himself! which is expected as I said. she was one of the most important elements that created his personality and soul and imagine when you loose such an important person, is like literally killing a huge part of yourself and never being able to take it back
But if she did not want him overthrown for not having a male heir and keep England Catholic when he started to lean to getting rid of her she had to bite the bullet and go into a Nunnery voluntarily if she could Spain might still have objected to force the English into a squabble over Henry's failure to produce a heir. Normally Henry would have just shoved her in a Nunnery the standard divorce then. Her status as loyal to the Catholic Church is week if she knew he was considering the break before he did it and did not offer to join a nunnery if he did not break with the Church. @@HistorysForgottenPeople
It's true that Isabel. eldest daughter of the Catholic Kings, was sent home after her husband, Afonso of Portugal, died in horse riding accident. It is true that she stated she didn't want to marry again. In the event, she was married to Afonso's successor, Manuel, in 1497. She died in childbirth in August of 1498, and her little baby, Miguel, died in 1500. He is buried in vault of the Cathedral of Granada with Isabel, Fernando, Juana and Philip. Important to know is that Catherine's brother, Juan, died in 1497, before Catherine left for England. He had been married to Margaret of Austria, sister of Philip of Burgundy. Philip, as mentioned, was married to Juana, Catherine's elder sister. Catherine would have been present for the deaths of Juan, young Isabel and little Miguel, and would have been witness to what these deaths did to her mother.
There is usually not much, if any, question about the result of consummation of a royal marriage, so the very fact that there is one feeds my belief that there was no consummation. We also have a letter from Isabel reflecting that Catherine's duena, Elvira Manuel, swore that Catherine was still a virgin. You didn't want to lie to Isabel, especially about something so important. Elvira would have taken an awful chance playing that kind of game, so my belief in non-consummation is strengthened by Elvira's communication to Isabel.
Poor lady. Her heart was so broken and hurt it grew into a tumor. I truly believe that. Our thoughts and emotions can and do effect the physical. Death must have been a release.
Sometimes, I wonder what if Arthur hadn’t died from the sweating sickness and managed to succeed Henry VII as King of England. Things would've been so different to Katherine had she remained married to Arthur instead of Henry VIII
From what I've heard, Arthur was a lot like his father (albeit, I believe he was a bit naive and gullible at times), but I do think as time passed, he would've grown to be a faithful and devoted husband to her (instead of Henry VIII, who is said to be a lot like their grandfather Edward IV)
But history would've been so different with King Arthur Tudor on the throne. Anne Boleyn wouldn't have gone to history. The Reformation wouldn't have happened. Edward VI, Mary I and Elizabeth I would've never been born. Maybe even the Stuarts would’ve never replaced the Tudors, and another branch or other dynasty would've succeeded them. So many questions
Oooh, I love doing this, but you can really end up down a big rabbit hole! 😂 I sometimes wonder if I could get away with making a channel that is basically considering 'what if's from history, but it might be a bit unwieldy as well.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople What do you think though?
Oooh finally some Katherine!! One of my favourite Queens of England and my favourite of those of Henry VIII by far.
A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family:))
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family, too! 😊 I just HAD to do one on Catherine eventually. The next one will be harder though, I don't like poor Anne Boleyn very much!
@@HistorysForgottenPeople oof same I loathe her ngl😭 Ikik, a strong word for a woman who was executed, but the more I learn about her the more I hate her😭 good luck!
It’s my son’s 2nd Christmas and he is 22 months old - I can’t sleep because I am so excited to see his face tomorrow morning (Christmas day)!! This will help me relax though - 🙏🏼
Aww, I hope he enjoyed Christmas Day! It's so magical when they're little. 😊🎄
RUclips recommended your video on Katherine Howard, so having an interest in the wives of Henry VIII, I watched and have made my way through most of the others (I think I just have Anne Boleyn left to watch), but Katherine of Aragon has always been my favorite. She really was the pinnacle of a medieval queen and had such a strong character. Even after all she was put through, she retained her dignity and grace until the end.
How different England would have been had their son lived.
Catherine would have lived longer and die with a elaborate funeral.
Absolutely! Henry likely would have had mistresses and 'flings' with those female subjects he was attracted to. However, had their son lived, I firmly believe he'd have never for an instant considered having their marriage annulled and likely would have given her respect (if not fidelity) as his heir's mother for the rest of her life and he wouldn't have forcibly and cruelly separated her from her offspring as he did with the surviving Mary. Now, had he outlived her, it's likely he'd have remarried but almost certainly to another Continental princess instead of any of his subjects.
Catherine is often known as "The old hag" but she was much more,she was strong,kind,beautiful and so loyal and determined.
She was King Henry's true wife.
Anne Boleyn wasn't traditionally attractive by Tudor standards, but her wit, and obvious intelligence made her alluring to Henry!
Props to Mary of Teck for recognizing Katherine.
Loved the video. Thank you Merry Christmas!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Merry Christmas! 😊
I don't understand how people praise and feel bad for Anne Boleyn. She only brought confusion and tension to the crown. Catherine was an actual queen and was done wrong by her husband. Anne thought she was different and was shown that she wasn't 🤦🏾♀️.
or maybe it's you that fails to understand that it wasn't Anne who came after Henry, it was the other way around! Anne was in love with someone else and had a total different life! and considering Catherine no longer being able to get pregnant, Henry would've literally abandon her for anyone who appeared on his way, even if it wasn't Anne and instead was some other religious stubborn girl! Henry because of his obsession ripped away everything nice in her life, her love, her chances in other courts of Europe which were high before all of the mess started, and her hopes for future, only to decide to get rid of her and remove her from existence
I do feel some sympathy for Anne in that I think there were (as always at that time) men in the form of her father and brother pushing from the back. But that's where my sympathy ends, as you say.
@@balletshoes first of all, she wasn't a mistress at that point, she was his wife, so don't excuse that!
and you say she was mean spirited as if she was like that to all people while no, she tried to help and gain the respect and the cruelty towards Mary is also just non-proven story by (I guess I know, everyone who prefers to belief with no evidence) she tried to reach out to Mary only to be rejected every time, but that's not called cruelty. the only person she mistreated, was Catherine and honestly, it's really funny that you people expect anyone to treat their love rival nicely. especially someone like Anne who was having serious mental issues at that point thanks to what Henry put her through for years
@@balletshoes I have read much better things about her and words of actual historians. Not like you who just believes in rumours said by those who weren't even presented
Stop applying modern thinking to the 16th century actions of the past. Ann is basically a modern day women running around w high body counts and taking advantage of men and you would be saying yassss kween go girl if she lived today
Even though we’ve had had a myriad of beauties in the film industry up until recently, Katherine of Aragon has always been considered the most beautiful woman in the world.
...according to whom?
In which period? Because it is commonly attributed to Isabella of Portugal, wife of Charles V
You are my favorite narrator ❤ thanks for sharing. Your comments here and there made this documentary feel like I was talking with you
She was named after her great-grandmother Catherine of Lancaster who was the daughter of John of Gaunt and his second wife Constance of Castile. Catherine of Lancaster married Henry III of Castile. Technically Catherine of Aragon did have a claim to the English throne stronger than her own husband Henry VIII because she descended from the Plantaganet kings. Could you do a video on Catherine of Lancaster too?
A very Merry Christmas to you, HRP! Looking forward to this one, and to your output in the new year. 😊
Thank you, and Merry Christmas to you too! 😊🎅
One thing that absolutely needs to be recognized is that it was only Isabella who did the wise rulership of Castile. Not Ferdinand. He was on paper but it was only a formality. She gave him paper supremacy to placate him from being totally cut out of Isabella's Castilian coronation. That was the result of Isabella not tolerating his pathological infidelity and their fights that resulted. Read the awesome book "Isabella: The Warrior Queen" by Kirstin Downey.
I was honestly never impressed by Catherine of Aragon. Her stubbornness was her downfall and it set her daughter up for a miserable life. Yes, Henry was very wrong in how he completely screwed her over but at some point you have to realize that this is a fight you’ll never win and it’s time for a little self-preservation.
I don't blame her for being stubborn, he flaunted his mistresses in her face. The stress alone from that probably contributed to her miscarriages.
You can also say why not relent for the better treatment of her daughter as well? Though she was raised to think she would be queen of England so I understand why she felt entitled. Lol
Catherine stayed true to henry and her faith very strong minded and very brave.
43:20 bravo!
I was rewatching this video and this part brought me to tears. Your sympathy and admiration for her (which I heartily share) really shone through🙏
It's certainly genuine! It's not that I like her more than the other wives, exactly (I have my favourites, but at the end of the day, they were all victims of a horrible monarch), but she absolutely was the rightful queen in my humble opinion, and her situation was only made more sad by the lack of people around her at the end. 😔
Excellent video.
Well, they were strangers to each other. They may not have been so eager to have sex right away.
Definitely - plus they were very young!
Plus Catherine had been raised EXTREMELY Catholic. She had been raised to cherish her virginity above all else, so I doubt she’d be willing to give it up to a complete stranger who’s language she didn’t speak just because they’d been married
I think it is quite possible that the marriage wasn't consummated and given Katherine's religious belief i really think she would not have lied
It does feel more as though the marriage wasn't consummated, you're right. For me personally though, even if Catherine was lying and she had slept with Arthur, it really wasn't hugely important, and she could see Henry was just trying to be rid of her.
I find it very difficult to believe two teenagers would be married for 6 months and not consummate their marriage. I think Catherine desired to be Queen of England and would have said anything to keep that possibility and maintain it.
As the world turns .. you're most likely correct
My thoughts on it were that possibly there had been what we might call 'adolescent fumbling', and since she hadn't become pregnant, Catherine sorted it in her own mind that was not actual intercourse. Not that I personally think it mattered if she did it with Arthur or not!
Queen Marie Antoinette and her husband King XVI famously had an unconsumated marriage for 7yrs and they were also teens when they wed. So, ya never know...
I do agree that indeed Catherine had great ambition to be queen. And, with the Pope dispensation it didn't matter if she and Prince Arthur had relations or not.
I think she was a remarkable woman. Far ahead of her time. I have great admiration for her but the deepest of sympathies for her in how she was treated at the end.
Wishing you happy holidays and a great New Year, fellow history lover. ❤
Considering my own teens years with a boyfriend, I can believe she did nothing.
They checked for an intact hymen back then . An easy way to verify virginity
A fine tribute to a formidable woman; my favorite of the 6 wives.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺
Hi awesome live history video I enjoyed it merry Christmas and a happy new year 2024 to you your family and your cat Mallard. How are you both doing? I'm doing well and so is my cat Benjamin. See you next video your fan friend Michelle 😊
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year for 2024, Michelle! 😊 I'm glad to hear you and Benjamin are doing well. Mallard is great; my little boy has been spoiling her with treats all day long, so she is super happy and a little fatter now! 🤣
Would you being doing her mother Isabel of castile soon?
Soy española, y en mi país, la vida de Catalina de Aragón, no ha sido tan estudiada ni conocida como la de sus padres los Reyes católicos, Isabel y Fernando, o la de su muy conocida hermana, Juana "la loca". Que era una mujer completamente cuerda, y también demostró ser muy valiente e inteligente, más que su marido Felipe "el Hermoso".
Muy buen video. Gracias, y saludos desde Málaga, España 🇪🇦, y por cierto, me gusta mucho Inglaterra😊
Henry VIII was the absolute worst. I've been reading and watching books and vids on him for decades. There's always a new tidbit of foulness to learn of him.
Honestly, he just gets worse the more you learn about him! 😂
Catalina de Aragon sounds better than Catherine. 😮 How dare they charge her name.
Right? I love her actual name.
Su nombre real sería ese .
Every nation does this. It’s just localisation. If the Spanish can call Elizabeth II ‘Isabel II’ and call Henry VIII ‘Enrique VIII’ then we’ll continue to call her Catherine, which is the English version of Catalina
Hinduism recognizes four stages of adult life -- Kama, Artha, Dharma, and Sith.
Kama corresponds to pleasure, followed by resposibility, wisdom, and death.
Like the stages of a rose -- bud, rose petals. seed and, decay.
Anne was executed 11 days before Jane married Henry VIII.
Did Jane make her marriage conditional? Did Henry regret what he'd done to Anne?
Anne Bolyen's daughter, Elizabeth, was greatly beloved by Henry VIII and England.
Phillip II expected to marry Elizabeth who was much younger than Mary.
Liz promised not to marry anyone else. Phillip waited patiently and but Liz never did.
She was a virgin who loved her country and led it for 45 years
When Phillip came calling with a Spanish Armada in 1588 she and her advisors destroyed the "Armada".
Can I know the sources you use for these videos?
I use a huge amount for different videos, so you'd have to be a bit more specific (which video, for example, and then I can tell you my sources for that video). I use a combination of the ODNB, journals and articles through sites such as JSTOR, and historical non-fiction books from accepted sources (by which I mean usually historians who have studied the subject for many years and are qualified, but obviously there are times this is not the case on more obscure people), as well as historical books contemporary to the time the subject of the video was alive.
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I'm doing an assignment for Catherine of Aragon and found this video incredibly easy to follow and understand. Could you give which sources you used for this one? Thanks for making this dissemination of knowledge so convenient!!
A great Queen!
I guess you can’t expect anyone to play fair when all relationships at the time were based on raising status and adding to the bank account…
Only knowing French Latin and Spanish!!? That’s 3 freaking languages!
I know, it's only in the context of other queens knowing 4 or 5 languages. 😂
@@HistorysForgottenPeople I’m honestly such a peasant for only knowing English 🤣
So, my completely unpredictable Christmas gift to you is- who would guess- a question 😱😱
How would you rate the Stuart Monarchs from best to worst?
For me it’d be (though tbh I don’t rly like any of them)
Anne
Charles II
-now it gets hard-
James II?😭
Mary II and William III
Charles I
James VI and I- one of the worst monarchs of England and Scotland
I thought William and Mary were able to provide stability, something Charles l and James ll weren't able to. Anne was loved, you can't take that from her
As for James VI of Scotland and Ist of England, he was called the English Solomon. Not a name any other English King was called, no-one ever disputed his right to rule
Okay, that is a hard question! I want an easy one next week, haha! 🤣
First would be same as you, Anne, followed by;
Charles II
James II (gets a pass because he was apparently a nice person in himself).
Mary II/William III
James IV and I (some redeemable qualities in person, possibly)
Charles I (started a civil war, instant Fail, Pass Go and do not collect your money! 🤣)
Although honestly, you could lump the bottom 3 (4? Mary-William?) in together for me. All awful, really!
@@suemcgregor9248 who came up with that nickname?😭 his was the reason Elizabeth I was elevated to semi-goddess status- he published a book on the divine authority of kings and how he ought to be followed without question- not to mention his other book on how to hunt, torture and kill witches💀
@@HistorysForgottenPeople ikr it’s hard to order them after Charles II😭 Fo me Charles I and his father would be on the same level, but the former was apparently good for his family, that’s honestly why I put him before the latter😭
Thanks!
Thank you very much, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺
I always find the history of royals so interesting and what the women went through was terrible but thats the way it was in those times. Ive done family genealogy and i find a few royal neames showing up on my mothers side. But theres so history there that it gets confusingly confusing to say the least.
It's weird that so many people gave him different options. Like polygamy was even suggested. 🤦🏼♀️
Are any of Henry’s clothes anywhere on display? I would love to see them/it
Cutest baby Mary ever
Women were just chattel…..sad
I would enjoy her time with her parents, preEngland, being covered. She is so well educated and traveled...
I’ve always felt a mix of sympathy and distaste for Anne Boleyn, but there is a hint of karma that she miscarried right after celebrating another women’s death…
I feel the same! I do have sympathy for her as I think she had her father and brother pushing her from the sidelines (I genuinely believe the intelligent, sexy, attractive Anne Boleyn would rather have married a sexy, wealthy young courtier with a well-turned leg over marrying an old, fat king with a smelly leg full of gout personally, others may disagree lol), but the way she behaved towards Catherine of Aragon was horrific.
She didn't lead troops in battle. Her story is interesting enough without having to resort to making stuff up.
❤
Ex wives club
A bit dangerous 😂
@@suemcgregor9248 Definitely in those times😄
I would have separated as my catholic faith is not as important to me as it was to Catherine of Aragon but my parents were not the catholic monarchs.
You're right, I think most of us today wouldn't be so close to our faith as many people were back then. The Reformation proved that there were people literally willing to die for their faith.
💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
I would never consider her a warrior queen.
That's fair enough!
Sorry, I'm not buying it. The Spanish Inquisition speaks for itself and Katherine's jealousy of Anne Boleyn endangered her daughter Mary's position
Anne treated Mary like crap.
So you’re saying a wife should be docile to a mistress just so her child isn’t deprived of her birthright?
Are you forgetting that Anne was the side piece in that scenario? One of MANY spare parts Henry had gotten himself into?