On Inequality Angela Davis and Judith Butler in Conversation
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2017
- This pannel took place at 2017 Oakland Book Festival, an unprecedented conversation between inimitable scholars Judith Butler and Angela Davis, moderated by Ramona Naddaff, in Oakland City Hall's Council Chambers.
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it was really important for us to see that universal access teaching moment in the beginning. We have to work harder to make events accessible
Fantastic video, but I really hope that the organisers learned from the shocking failure to take into account the needs of people with disabilities who attended this event.
I'm disabled. What's shocking?
@@mensabs Er, watch the vid 🙄
@@sandanista2002 the point is to stop emphasizing disability -- deal with it, as I have -- ooooo there's no ramp for the wheelchair, etc. -- in any case who would bother to want to get to an event like this with these "icons"
@@mensabs 👍
@@mensabs Disability is emphasized exactly when you are being denied access to places and events, not when effort has been made to include everybody who wants to be included. Glad that you've been able to 'deal with it', but the point here is making public life accessible for people with different needs (also for those people who are weaker than you and do not 'deal with it' as well) - so that people can freely attend all kinds of events, both those that you personally find pointless, and those you'd be excited to attend as well.
Real opportunity created to confront our blind spots when it comes to our standards and definitions of equality.
I appreciate that the commotion was not immediately quelled. So often, we raise speakers and celebrities to heights, rather than treating them as equals with more education or different experiences. We all learn from each other.
Thank you Angela for recognizing the ancestral territory of the Ohlone Nation. On Point!!!!!!! 💚
angela has been a role model for me since her days of being beautiful black panther, as she ages gracefully she resembles my favorite aunt
i have met her a few times and she was just as real as real comes, the smile which reveals the small gap in her teeth, i will always treasure this human being because her commitment to keeping it real and getting it right
i thank her for the dedication of her life for us
all the best to you angela yvonne davis.......pure love sent ur way
It is so good to listen to these women talk. It gives me strength to hear such intelligent and loving discussion.
LOL
Where, exactly, is the intelligence? And love? You simply can't be serious...
Agree with you so much, it's truly amazing. Just wanted to mention that Judith Butler is non-binary 😁
@@erikarolinenorheim1640 Non-binary and non-logical.
Its a treat to watch these two women together.
Self-importance x 2
Angela’s answer to the final question has me crying and hopeful
Love that, in a time of such horrific ableism, Angela understands how important disabled folks are to the movement (& vice versa) & does not ignore the multiply marginalized as so many do. So much would have been better in so many ways had people LISTENED to disabled people both before & during Covid. Until people learn these lessons rather than thinking they save themselves by turning their backs as disabled people are killed there will be no progress. Anything that leaves disabled folks out is supremacy. Sad to see this toxicity so much to the fore. May we have enlightenment, humanity & CHANGE.
There's an obviously perverse irony in having a discussion about inequality without guaranteeing access to deaf and disabled people. But it should be a non-controversial point that it would have been a bad result if the conversation just didn't happen.
thats literally one of Butler's, that any attempt to completely accommodate always leaves someone out, so that you are constantly changing what it means to "accommodate"
Complaining about "the way" they talk reminds me of people who do not take me seriously because I speak English with an accent. disregarding someone for a characteristic on the surface instead of focusing in the message is exactly what exists at the core of inequality.
misoglossism
is not a word
decoherence
This was a pleasure to watch. Thank you.
It was definitely entertaining .... but not how I suspect they intended. Virtue Signalling Central meets Disorganization City.
Great discussion, but poorly organized and poorly moderated. You can't even have the foresight to have a sign language interpreter? That being said, I'm very glad Butler began with a discussion about this.
Halfway through someone did mention that they did hire a certified interpreter who was a no show. Still, they should've had a better backup plan.
@@jadamgreen right. im still confused as to why they didn't
lean on the person who was stepping up to do the interpreting when the one deaf person came to address angela to let her know that people were outside. im glad for transparencies sake, that this was left in its entirety for all to see, and that the speakers were absolutely confronting the very really irony here. Also appreciate Butler's form comment in regards to having a defensive reaction, as opposed to using it as a learning tool to move forward. lots of integrity here.
Thank You Angela, wtf, the race to assimilation, Thank You Judith, the seeking of property and the state approval as recognition has always infuriated me!!! Great discussion, great evolution.
What a lack of organization in a that kind of important event.
I love that the first 30 minutes is bracketed with a demonstration of navigating and redressing inequality of access.
There's a lot of talk on the internet about what bodies should do and how things should be, that falls like a lecture about how to swim given in a desert.
Davis, Butler et al. gather next to a pool they use, and begin by, as Davis says, "jumping straight in."
It's refreshing.
haha it's such a strange and ironic introduction
LOL. You said it.
Great!
This is a conservative's fever dream.
"¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! / A united people will never be defeated". Such a thrilling, humbling discussion with two women who always always challenge my blind spots and assumptions. As a gay man nearing seventy years of age, I attest to the reality of one step forward, half a step backward; two steps forward, one and a half steps backward... Present pain is a signal that something is wrong. As a young man, I was told that Angela Davis was a dangerous person; and there was no discussion of queer rights because even to say "queer" was to put oneself in a position of danger, of lesser-than, of exclusion and ever-present humiliation. So much has changed, but as Angela pointed out, it's change within an oppressive system. It's ALWAYS intimidating and seemingly hopeless on one's own, and I think the secret is to watch carefully for the ways in which entrenched power - white, male, heteronormative power, inevitably - seeks to resist change and promotes the false ideal of individualism to do so. We accomplish nothing by ourselves. I was crying at the end, because that's something that men do. I truly believe that women can and will transform the world, and I trust that women will not wait for permission from men to live their power.
Angela Davis ❤✊🏽remarkable woman ✊🏽thank you Angela for all your contributions and fighting for the people!
people, you dont need to clap everytime the speakers enhance their voices
UAU!!!
Judith is way above.
Racism is also intertwined with ableism, people need to make the connections
Because reaching is ableist much in the same symbiosis as chanterelles have optionality with their skills smiling gently and angrily with their gills of privilege. This in turn leaves islamaphobic folks empowered to stop the cultural realized socially acceptable beheadings for gay otherkins. Of course , sex and gender are only a construct and can change on a whim, but if someone is gay sec is not a construct unless they are straight in which case they just have internalized homophobia from the patriarchy. That should pretty much explain everything in s completely logical cohesive major. ;
2 years ago and she still hasn't answered the question does anyone suppose she just doesn't know what she's talking about.
everything is intersectional
@@colorpurple4623 What is your stance on the topic?
Such beautiful remarkable intelligent women they are my inspiration 🥰🙏🏽
So many things from the start, they should of fixed before the event.
Accessibility is not an after thought.
I'm pretty sure this video isn't captioned either-
After not HIREING (not volunteering) an asl interpreter, afterwords they should of came out with captions and a transcript.
Two absolut legends ❤
But no subtitles :-(
Why did they not hire a sign language interpreter? simply bizarre.
Thinking why weren't all those issues sorted before filming and microphone etc because some may have felt embarrassed . I know I would have with the spotlight on me. Ironic being on inequallity. Sometimes dealing with inequality needs to be done discreetly and not like this with an applause afterwards.
So far, can't stand all the applause and only just into it. Does this stop... It's like a pat on the back of the speakers and v disruptive.
are transcripts available for this?
Guess.
icons.
Can we talk about school abolishment too actually?
School is the root that supports so many other systems-
School funnels people into prison
School leaves people traumatized
School exposes wealth inequality
School teaches white washed history
Schools are STILL by geography and neighborhood segregated
Schools are built to prepare people for capitalism
School teaches disabled people they are stupid
School teaches people to bow to authority
If we completely rethink school- I think we can completely rethink a lot of society a few decades down the line.
school abolishment is the incorrect term, schooling is a great concept and would be reformed in a socialist society . You can see it in Veitnam for example were marxism is taught in schools
How are You going to force your iseals
20 mins in, and not a single thought communicated. She just keeps repeating the words "accessible, inclusive, space" Is she ok,?
I used to go to meetings like this. Every meeting was like the first thirty minutes of this event. Feminism. Nothing is ever accomplished. Nothing of substance is discussed. It is all about people interrupting the discussion to debate how the discussion should take place. So get a certified interpreter before the event, let the people in wheelchairs in first, then the people who need to sit, etc. If they wanted to ensure access they could arrange it.
Oh my god the moderator Jesus Christ
I got a philosophical question: What is equality (in the human society context) and why is it so important or more important than, say, individual freedom or material prosperity?
2 years without an answer, I'm not surprised.
equality is about EVERYONE having those two things.
Individual freedom and material prosperity are both ways to measure equality and equal opportunity. Inequality happens due to there being barriers to reaching material prosperity and suppression of individual freedoms. So the focus /is/ on individual freedom and prosperity, and because it is, inequality rises to the fore as an obvious issue because the same possibilities are not present for everyone.
Judith Butler is so soft-spoken and respectful towards Angela Davis.
Cuban dissidents like Armando Valladares (who spent 25 years in Castro's prisons) would be very interested to learn from Davis that the had the right to pay, and to form an union....
What was the objective of this discussion?
Get claps
Two grifters doing their grift.
To talk about whats needed to be talked about
Eventhough this talk is in Oakland, it's still very Berkeley. I put money on it that most of the people in that audience were mostly white and had at least some graduate education. A good chunk of the audience were probably undergrads and grad students. This conversation isn't just inaccessible based on ability, but because Butler and Davis are academic critical theorists. They need to shift their attention to mass media and start to actually televise the revolution.
GettingWolfie interesting that ableism as as construct is not mentioned as a topic even by these critical theorists especially Davis
Uh this is on RUclips...does that not count
Angela Davis' revolution has been plenty televised all throughout her life. Academics have a job and that is being a critical part of the academic field - it has nothing to do with mass media potential of ideas. These people have done so much for society - how about you create a RUclips channel that elevates their work for them, if its so vital?
20:13
wholesome
also 59:49 how judith looks to angela..... they r precious
This kind of academic talk drives me insane.
But what do you mean by "academic?" I'm concerned with the assumption that we always feel the _academic_ always exists. Historically, I know that the academy is a good thing -- and so is criticizing it. But I'm very concerned by the fact that the ways that we criticize certain types of talk for being "academic" are AND BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Hello from 2020 -- Bernie Sanders is a flawed man, but he's leagues better than others!
Max, I think he has worked hard the past two years to bring the ideas expressed here firmly into his platform, he evolves, he listens, he has good counsel, thankfully!
I find the comments more interesting than the video. :-p
i dont understand, whatever these two say on this panel reflects only the slightest fraction of their scholarship. While its probably cool to be there, anyone with a serious interest would probably rather read their works than be patronized for 30 minutes before the speakers they came to see could actually talk.
I mean what If you read their books and are just vibing
legendas em português, Please !
AUF DEUTCH MUTTERFICKTER AUF DEUTSCH
Esta no ar!
Parlez francais, s'il vous plaites.
Existe um zilhão de idiomas no mundo
Here the approach of gulags
unfucking believable
33:11
hold my coffee
How is it you think it's your job to "make everybody equal?
خبر عاجل
قمر صناعي بريطاني في الفضاء الان .كروي الشكل سماوي في النهار وفي الليل تظهر كأنه هلال..
سؤال يطرح نفسه بقوة ثورية.
هل تنقل الاخبار بشكل سليم الى فيسبوك
yes, two great intellects -- Jack and Angela -- go girls! Watch the guy jump up and fix the microphone and, er, make the whole media things possible from computers to wifi - what a joke Jack. They're SOOOO serious. Watch the girly hands handling the equipment. And how much do each of them spend (and the moderatoress) at the hairdresser each week or two to keep that "look"? Fashion. Everything from Jack's mouth is hackneyed phrases -- navigate the public sphere, spaces this and spaces that. How much were they each paid for this appearance?
30 minutes of discussion about the discussion before the discussion starts. And then a rambling and incoherent stream of consciousness riff that makes no sense. Connecting unions to that 20 percent of the world lives in slums, going directly from suggestions that marriage as a concept should be done away with to that we live in a prison society that is a direct product of capitalism, and just cherry picking random stories about what happened in Barcelona or to a person somewhere and not citing any actual studies or statistics or any substantive analysis. But, above and beyond, when faced with two very real realities: 1) the venue is at capacity, and 2) the sign language interpreter was a flake and didnt show up; their answer is that it is all an act of oppression. This is where I struggle, as a leftist, with the movement. Yes, some nice ideological philosophical ideas but no actual acknowledgement of reality. They dance around their ideas of how "things should be", they offer no concrete ideas of "how things should be", but they, and everyone else in the room, are in agreement that "things are wrong", but they also offer no critical analysis of how exactly "things are wrong". In the same paragraph they defend and tear down capitalism, defend and tear down democracy, always modulating facts and logic to back up whatever their opinion happens to be at that minute. I listened to the whole thing, it makes no sense, it doesn't make me optimistic.
@Jon Brown no one is going to join a movement that doesn’t make sense. If you want to build opposition to government, then clearly and coherently state your case. This video is incoherent rambling, preaching to the choir and patting each other on the back- not the way you increase membership.
Become vapour, then everywhere will be accessible. And you need to check your fudged dialectical formula in CRT. What a joke
What a load of bullshit. Sophistry at its most pretentious.
able white people in the front not moving..... revolting audience and organising and Ramona...shame on you. INEQUALITY in action. How can you lecture on it ???
LOL. I love how it took them almost a half an hour to actually get the talk started because everyone had to get their virtue signal on..
Whilst I found it annoying & as uncomfortable as fuck - there was an outcome. That doesn't fit with VS now does it?
Listen fuckwit, just because you are a self centered arsehole, doesn't mean anyone else that shows an interest is VSing. It is possible that you are just trash & you would rather bring others down than improve yourself.
But American conservativism is all about virtue signaling: patriotism, Christianity, southern pride(coded racism is most cases), tough on crime(again often coded racism). Anyways everybody virtue signals, buy often what I find is that liberals actual care about what they say they care about, while powerful conservatives use their virtues as codes for their actual values which usually ultimately center around retaining money and power in select groups.
This is the intellectual equivalent of an episode of “The View”
@ Or the word equivalent, for that matter
Hahaha!
Moderator begins by lying.
it would be awesome if cisgenders started to call themselves CISGENDER, in order to recognize the cisgenerity tho
I love how Judith equalizes getting shot in the street, getting harrassed in the street and coming across a curb in the street. They are all equal violations of our rights, its so true.
Yeah, @Garrett Halas Its all the same I think?
10 minutes into the talk and you already have people grandstanding about the unequal access to the talk because there's no sign language interpreter. and the speakers and organizers then start arguing back about how hard they tried and virtuous they are for like five minutes instead just saying "it is what it is, sorry but for anyone would didn't get to listen this'll be up on youtube with subtitles." meanwhile the brain dead audience claps anytime one of them starts talking all dramatic passionate, what a mess. Can you imagine trying to live in a society made up of people like this....
Couldn't much worse than a society run by paranoid egocentric John Smiths obsessed with pussy and money.
"Can you imagine trying to live in a society made up of people like this...."
We already do. Or are the people in that video not part of society already? :-D
Yes the ableist voice of the audience is complicit
it's so funny people who have so much faith in government regulations are so willing to violate those regulations they happen to find inconvenient for themselves. Cuz, you know, rule of law and whatever--except not...
"The prison system, is a continuation of slavery"- No, slaves were not criminals. Big distiction
Germanine Greer is streaks ahead in her thinking,
Germaine Greer is a bigot. She would do very well to read more Butler, who actually cares about people.
Who is Germanine Greer? The German version of Germaine? lol
Double speak nonsense
A deep feminism, working at the heart of contradictions, without having to pick sides or say anything of substance at all.
Yet many people seem to have a problem with non-object oriented conversations.
LOL And yes so sad. Talk about a missed opportunity.
yes
This is mostly pageantry, sorry not sorry.
Angela Davis is a fed.
Angela Davis owns two homes, which I couldn't help thinking about when they both start droning on about property.
HA that's actually disgusting
kek
How do these purple dramatists think they've reached an improved end to resentment, when you need to slap, order, and slam open the obedience to justice, as the only purpose and honor the "grace" that can put an AC and DC current together and light up the east coast, and burn/snap/razzle the creatures as numerical that get in the way. No thought is necessary in the least consideration of any shame that a dog , or other animal, feels, as obvious that he becomes aware of some inferior incapacity in his relationships. WE WILL give no consideration to torture, of anyone, on the basis of weakness, inferiority, or struggle in any emotional sense related to structuring their lives, other than us as the clarified valuation having NOTHING to do with the false anti-possible of heard sensitivity.
Demonio o que vc quer no Brasil. Sai da america vai pro oceano e faça uma morada lá.
.....grrrr capitalism .... property grrrrr : Angela '2 houses' Davis
How touching. You all care so much. You want a perfect world where everybody gets exactly the same lollipop. You make a place for everybody in your perfect world. But I must ask. Have you made place for any conservatives? Then you could have a real discussion instead of a encounter group where everybody nods their head sagely as the commissars speak.
Isn't butler the whole reason we have this huge mess we are in now?
The reason people are confused about gender and reality
Stay calm and continue (or start) studying and you will see that the fog will disappear.
Or wait for your mother to give you food for weaning.
Goodness, this was disappointing. The fiasco at the beginning. Typically unorganized. Virtue signalling. Unsurprising that when one of the organizers states that two sign language interpreters actually were hired and only one showed, Butler accuses the speaker of being "defensive", silences him, and shuts him down. Of course, he was a man. Going on, both ignore the moderator and launch into a list of complaints, all obvious, with no real workable proposals (of course more unions would help, that is, if they don't become corrupt), and some literally laughable, if it wasn't so shocking and embarrassing, such as abolishing all prisons. There wasn't even a realistic discussion of sentencing, just more drama regarding slavery proxy. Seriously, is everyone in prison now actually innocent? I doubt either Butler or Davis is prepared to start running a half way house to find out. Literally, same old, same old from these two. They cancel each other and themselves out of any real equation. Definitely not in the game. Yet at this time, April 2019, Congress and the President put into law real change now that has freed over 500 prisoners from oppressive and excessive sentences with the new law and is requiring a massive review of current sentences and shaping for the better all future sentencing. Finally, Butler completely misreads Europe.
I somehow found those ladies sympathetic, friendly - but most of their talk was sadly nonsense. Yes, there are problems like racism, sexism etc. but things are getting better, sure, also because of activists. But the general population in the so called Western world changed a lot since World War II. Yes, they did not become perfect beings, but things got gradually and even massively better altogether. Yes, Capitalism is not a panacea, it creates problems, should not be without constraints, not without overview. This concerns especially the massive environmental problems it created. Having said that, it is also not at fault for every problem. Sometimes, it even is quite good to have it, in many ways. Saying that e.g. the prison system is a legacy of slavery is nonsense. Abolishing prisons is dangerous nonsense. who wants to see people like Anders Breivik or Ted Bundy free? Only ideologues can believe that better schooling and the "community" can "heal" rapists and murderers. Yes, I am always for more and better schooling, but there are limits in what it can achieve! And the word "community" and its inflationary use annoyes me. Why lump together people who have maybe one (albert significant) trait in common? Yes, one can work on issues together, but that does not create a "community". And society does not need more "communities", it needs engaged and critical citizens! Because "communities" are representing particular interests (which is sometimes necessary) and yes, they are playing "identy politics", no matter what those two ladies say. And they do lose the bigger picture, more often than not. Also, great for Israel to be singled out again as a villain state. Lovely and thoughtful to reduce the problems of the world to that conflict and misrepresent it (which is inevitable in the matter of time given) gravely and dangerously. This is irresponsible. Since 1948 there were and are may conflicts that are graver. Why always bring up Israel? Believe me, if the problem there would be as grave as those ladies think it is, I would not complain about their obsession. Also, yes, indigenous populations where treated abominaly. But that does not mean that they were or are models for a good, functioning or just society either. First of all, their size was extremly different from ours. Face to face interactions were the rule. And conflict, aggression was usually very high, especially concerning the outgroup, i.e. neighbours. Warfare with (adjusted to the size of the groups) many casualties were the norm. Even the practice of killing strangers or non-group members "on sight" were the rule. And conquest and empire are known since histories dawn. Before "white" people and so called Westerners existed! And after, e.g. Jenghis Khan, who also loved a revolutionary change and dreamed of the distruction of all cities to create more space for the pastures of his horses. Please, let us not be nostalgic. Just because the forbearers of modern time Westerners were in modern ethical standards often cruel and inhumane to an extreme does not mean that the rest of the world was paradise. Anyone who is not an ideologue would know that.
As an outsider (I am German) I see that the USA is struggling with massive problems. For me, it is the lack of a decent social state and a representative voting system that are the main issues. Not this nonsense.
A useless conversation rooted in ignorance justified by ideology.
can you specify?
What a freak show!
hilarious self-importance ... thank you for tossing out ideas moderator - otherwise I bet no one would have a clue on what to say
violate the building code regarding numbers - how egalitarian ... unless there is a fire
citizens include people there illegally - so "citizen" means nothing
do these people speak like this all the time - huge theatrics
colonized land - show me some land that was not at some time taken over by some outside group
"democracy is racialized ... Haitian revolution ... misogyny" ... randomly toss out terms ... how profound
why did the deaf show up late? got to love the hierarchy of oppression at play
16 minutes and still discussing the basis upon which the discussion will occur
property is the major problem ... capitalism - you go commie
U.S. offered prisons to the world ... quintessential democratic institution - is Davis insane?
slavery behind capitalism ... well there was slavery a long time ago in capitalist economies and slavery before that in non-capitalist economies - what's your point?
capital punishment comes from slavery - evidence for causation?
I can't take any more drivel
Do you have an alternative to the "drivel?" Or do you simply wish to spout dissent on RUclips (hardly original of you)? So how would you do it better?
Also it deserves pointing out: it is not their obligation to be entertaining or easy for you to listen to.
Jonathan TBD I know, their opener was a virtue signal with a side of 'fuck the system' (and the fire codes). 100% SJW kek
Didn't bother to organise a signer or interpreter and had to ask for volunteers.
the fragility is strong in this one
Two absolut legends ❤