While I wish the interview had gone more constructively, Timmy showed his intention was never to be accountable but to try and corner me by expecting me to know every story from the book. It has been years since I read it from beginning to end. When I attempted to ask him questions and keep him on the point he ran away! I'll make a video addressing this soon and then I'm done. Timmy has shown his true self!
Although I don’t agree with Timmy, there should have been a mediator. Both sides should be allowed to speak without interruption, that is a good progressive debate.
It's a motte-and-bailey, at that. He's trying to make it seem like miorby is attacking him over innocuous human error, rather than pointing out the trend of deceptive editing Timmy uses in his video to prime his audience against Sue.
I would say that misattributing quotes and deliberately cutting sentences out that would invalidate your point is more than a "little mistake". He acts like quoting the psychologist is the problem while he's completely missing the point. The point is that he both misattributed the quote to sue AND said that she "openly" admits to kicking Byron out. "Openly" would imply that she admits this... openly. Admitting it to a psychologist but not in public would be admitting it "privately". That's basic stuff
@@zedknot230LITERALLY ME TOO! i’ve been listening to dire trip for the past couple weeks at work, best stuff. weird to find him here, it’s nice when based youtubers support eachother
It's a debate people usually prep research notes for that, instead of immediately arguing about your wrong I'm right which leaves no area for conclusion in this "debate" also a weird hill to die on defending the parents of a school shooter on both sides honestly this just a shame blame game literally no point talking over someone an entire 51 minutes and then act confused as to why it's not going well
Hasan moment lol Also I'm actually sad Jimmy did something like this when he was such a good creator. Now I feel like I have to second guess what I've seen from his other videos.
@@Femboyfriend well yeah but when you prepare for a debate, you prepare with relevant material, he was quizzing him on random details, rather than trying to make a point. also at the end of the video, timmy said he wanted to do this asap, so miorby said the soonest was in a day, so today. look, i do think miorby did talk over him unnecessarily at times, but timmy was also just not answering the question or including useless information
@@Femboyfriend if the topic is the lies Timmy said, what's the point of bringing up sections of the book and other pieces of writing that weren't in either video.
You needed a mediator for this, I think you're in the right in this video and your last but the amount of yelling over one another and both sides trying to constantly interject and never letting the other finish made this a mess to get through. This wasn't much of a debate and turned into an emotionally charged argument between two people from the minute it started. Keep up the good work though, I appreciate you fact checking people and happy you attempted a dialogue even if it didn't go well.
Agreed. Maybe I’m wrong, but the first one I see talking over the other is Timmy talking over Miorby, not to excuse Miorby talking over Timmy later on. A moderator would’ve made this much more productive.
@@emporioalnino4670, that doesn't make sense. If Miorby wanted to bring Timmy to his channel to talk, doesn't that already lend the same level of credence that you are claiming?
this was a learning experience for me. i didn’t think too hard on timmy’s video and just listened to it as background noise, taking him at his word. because who would make a long ass video full of lies? thank you for exposing this and for reminding all of us to stay vigilant and think critically.
ditto. + i can promise i’ll never make that mistake again. if his video did nothing else it did that. oh + exposed him as a person w| 0 integrity. so two things i guess.
Who would make a long ass video full of lies? Someone who wants you to believe those lies. I'll admit I watched Timmy's video in the bg too, basically taking everything he was saying at face value. This and hbomber's plagiarism video has definitely made me reevaluate giving youtubers the benefit of the doubt right off the bat
@@ahkarivae i think that's kind of the crux of this case tbh - that to many of us the question "who would make a long ass video full of lies" isn't an entirely rehtorical, but that there's a subconcious assumption that there would at least be a more understandable reason to deceive people. like someone who has a personal or political agenda, is biased because of a sponsorship, following a popular narrative started by someone else who has an agenda, or even someone making unintentional mistakes from not being well-read enough. the idea that someone would make a whole video lying about a specific individual, with a topic that isn't even a particularly current hot topic, just for the hell of it is strange enough that at least for me it put my guard down. your answer that it's as simple as "someone who wants you to believe those lies" may be blunt, but it's an important lesson. people lie for any or no reason.
@@hellaSwankkyTooI've said that before...and then Timmy's video happened. 😂 I love your optimism but honestly we probably will get fooled again and just have to try to continue to listen to dissenting opinions even when it doesn't seem necessary I guess 🤷
The funniest part is that your original video only got like 150,000 views. If he was going to just handle it like this he literally just could have ignored you 😂
@@curleyqreviews9793 I'm seeing a lot of the top critical comments on his video have been removed, he's in full damage control now. Removed his pinned comment about this debate as well.
i’m so thankful for your video. i had watched timmy’s video a while back as background noise while i was doing something else so i didn’t pay as much attention to it. i remember having some questions or confusion when first watching, but figured it was just due to me not watching as closely as i should have. i totally would not have questioned anything or known if it wasn’t for your content.
Same I watch a lot of similar length content in a similar fashion and I had a couple of "nah that doesn't really make sense" moments but it didn't bother me enough to stop watching and look it up. Probably because it was covering a topic I hadn't done thorough research on before watching.
Same. His video came on while I was running true crime stuff in the background while I was crocheting and remember it sounding off but not fully listening, but a few days later I saw the rebuttal and THAT math was mathin.
Timmy made a video on sue, using her book as one of the main driving factors to his argument. And he himself admits he didn’t even read the whole thing. He “skimmed it, fast read” that alone discredits him in my opinion lol.
What was his point even? Miorby caught him misrepresenting facts, misattributing quotes, etc. Whether he read the book or not doesn't change that. He could have not read a word of the book and all that would do is make it even more pathetic that it was o easy to catch Jimmy lying.
he really asked a battle of the books trivia ass question and then took that as evidence that oH sO yOu NeVeR rEaD tHe BoOk ThEn. I've never been more annoyed by someone. "You have to let me finish" as he yells over miorby. "that's called a red herring" before he proceeds to strawman the hell out of miorby. SO juvenile. pretty pathetic watching his shell crack live compared to the image he gave himself in edited videos.
Timmy is horrible. He’s condescending and misleading. He objectively lost this debate. He’s shown himself to be an obnoxious person who doesn’t know when to admit he’s wrong. Well done!
Honestly I find it so rude that Miorby can’t get one word in but gets a “warning” for over talking even though he’s only trying to address him by name lmao
The whole debate was Timmy saying an obvious lie and then getting flustered when he gets corrected. He complains that he is getting interupted when he was just going to embarass himself if he kept on speaking.
This guy is desperate to blame a woman for her son's actions. She is the first to admit that something went wrong, but none of us can know exactly what. She loved her son the best she could and she couldn't save him from himself any more than she could save anyone else from his actions. I have nothing but empathy from her because no matter her mistakes, she was clearly a loving mother doing her best. I watched her Ted Talk and found it to be excellent. He seems to be advocating for giving your child zero privacy in an attempt to keep them from doing something wrong, when in fact it can ONLY make the situation worse. Good thing he thinks he's god's gift to parenting; I'm sure his child will turn out perfect.
im curious to hear his opinions on gun control honestly. columbine was a pivotal moment for us gun control debates, and it would be mighty convenient to spin the narrative that people only died because of terrible parenting. it allows people to focus on the mother who shouldve “done better” instead of wonder why this kid had such easy access to guns in the first place, exemplified in the fact that timmy left out that sue didnt even keep guns in the house.
To be fair it's EXTREMELY clear why they did what they did. Not only did they have manifestos but mass murders both before and after also had manifestos talking about what they did and why. In short it was hate coupled with a God complex.
I feel like it's coming from some kind of internalized misogyny but that's totally just a vibe I get. He does seem really determined to blame Sue for this when she clearly has punished herself enough. He is mad that she is telling her story in her words and thinks that she should fade into obscurity at best, or be demonized for her teen son's unforeseeable actions. People get blindsided, this dude is gonna have a rude awakening when his daughters grow up and hide weed, or sneak booze, or who knows commits a murder, because people do unexplainable shit all the time for any reason at all, just because you want to neatly assign blame doesn't mean you are right to.
I like how when you ask him a very straightforward question: “Why did you edit out part of the TED talk where Sue takes accountability?” Timmy commits one of the most obvious examples of the tu quoque fallacy saying “you did the same thing to me.” Also his diversions from the questions are so obvious it’s painful. Timmy not only did a terrible job defending his position but at the same time managed to make himself look horrible by engaging in numerous fallacies, attempting to shift the burden of proof, attempting to change the topic when pushed into a corner. Very amateur stuff.
He made one video about a janky Russian game having cheaters and his ego exploded. He’s gone full brainiac. Idk what it is, but these “creators” get one fat Adsense check and decide this is their career and throw everything else away
Miranda Sings did not even pretend to apologize, she said she's "sorry to say she won't be apologizing." Sue absolutely accounts for her role in her son's life that led to this.
@@DodongoManoofImagine some Christianity vs Atheism debate where the atheist asks a random Bible verse and bc the Christian can't recall it off hand he says "You haven't read it have you? Im not moving on until you admit you haven't read the Bible!" 😂
I've debated for years. That Timmy dude is among worst type of debater. I picked up his little tricks throughout the debate. The implicit, unjustified assumption here, the subtle loaded question there, the avoidance of direct answers.
Oh? You’ve debated for years? I bet that means you’ve debated quite a bit? Some might say you’re a mass debater? Yep, sorry bucko. You just got rolled by a debate pro. And before you ask, yes I did have to debate a lot in order to earn that title. Oh, what’s that? Yeah, I guess that means people could call me a mass debater… FUCK, you are good. You may have won this debate carnivorous_vegan, but know our feud isn’t over just yet…
He honestly sounded like Kent Hovind and that's the best way I can describe it- the fast rambling and CONSTANT interruptions, and avoiding the questions as well.
I did not do any "official" debating (if it can be called that 😅) but I love to debate with my friends and family. If someone kept interrupting me like this, kept avoiding direct questions and displayed this behavior I would've just walked out. I would love to see this debate but with allotted time for each argument and someone to stop Timmy from redirecting the conversation (I guess the moderator).
5 minutes in and so far Miorby is interrupting more than Timmy (I’m coming in already on Miorby’s side, so the reason this bugs me is Timmy is the one I REALLY want to hear from uninterrupted here). Maybe this will flip further on, but either way I really wish one of them had proposed a moderator. I get the impression from both of them being here that they each believe they can set the record straight, and each have very different ideas of what a “straight record” looks like at this point… so of course even amongst the coolest heads, things are bound to get heated. EDIT: Finished the video. It really fell apart at 15 minutes in at the "did you/didn't you read the book?" part. Timmy basically abandoned the debate in order to try to catch Miorby on something meaningless (it doesn't matter whether or not Miorby read the whole book... he clearly read enough to debunk Timmy's read on the book. I don't think the McDonald's scene is even in either video, is it? So how is it part of the debate?)
After seeing in your video how Timmy misled his audience, I don't even want to hear anything from him. It was the first video of his that I saw and I was greatly disappointed. I don't know if he was being intentionally malicious but he shared his two cents and he blew it.
2cents is now proper fucked. Can you imagine running away because you can't talk for 20 minutes about Miranda Sings? Maybe he can work on projects with Illuminaughtii now.
I was so confused with the argument. Like he was saying the apology wasn’t meant, but if that was the case show her saying she was a bad mom and then align that with her other statements. Leaving it out is just purposely disingenuous.
It's some major Alex Jones level of antic, which is in of itself, conspiratorial. Just look at how Timmy frames his video. He heavily implied there's more even though it's entirely baseless skepticism on his end.
A moderator definitely would have been helpful. In your defense, it's hard to be patient when you're arguing with someone like TImmy, but I think this debate would have benefited greatly from you both allowing each other to talk longer without interrupting. I see why you would want to correct things as they come, but you're not on a time limit so you would still have the opportunity to disagree as the conversation moves forward. Plus, his arguments are so weak that he looks bad just for making them in the first place. All in all I think you did the best you could and I still 100% agree with you. I also wanted to thank you for doing so much to address this issue. I hope this comment didn't rub you the wrong way, I just really appreciate what you've done here and I want you to continue to make this type of content in the most effective way possible.
I agree, i love miorby but he was interrupting Timmy as much as timmy was interrupting him. You look so much better in a debate when you dont have to cut someome off.
@@Smokey35400 Agreed. At least Timmy still made himself look bad, there's no way people are going to trust him as much going forward. And you have to respect Miorby for keeping the video up anyway and rolling with the criticism.
I’m just starting this and of course couldn’t help but read some comments 😂 just wanted to say this is a really good comment you shouldn’t feel bad at all - constructive criticism is important!
As someone who's been to a fair share of therapists/counselors, it actually pisses me off how much Timmy insists that what the counselor wrote about Sue kicking Byron out of their house *must* be true *because* a counselor wrote it. Whenever I go through my reports from therapists, I always find some inaccuracies and things that should have been worded better by the therapist. Counselors and therapists are regular human beings who also make mistakes and sometimes word things wrong based on a split second judgement they might have made during a session. I once got a report from a therapist I was seeing saying I am presenting with depressive and anxious symptoms. The last depressive episode I had was a few years ago. I last had a panic attack in high school. In our previous sessions I always told her that my mood has been stable and positive for quite some time but that I am struggling with focus and productivity (I was seeing her because I was in the process of getting an ADHD diagnosis). So why did she write that? Because during that session, I cried when I told her about a traumatic event that happened that summer. But according to Timmy2C*nts over here I must be depressed and anxious because a therapist wrote it once.
Counsellors will be the first people to admit to you that counselling notes are not "objective fact." They are secondhand info given to the counsellor FROM their client, then passed through the filter of the counsellor's own interpretation. As an exercise, some counsellors actually recommend having clients take their own notes, then comparing notes at the next session as a way of seeing the different things client and counsellor take away. One area where I do not think Timmy is necessarily wrong is that, at the end of the day, he and Miorby are comparing two different information sources that say different things. There actually is some ambiguity there. Maybe it shows Sue's story changing from the time of the therapy to the time of the book coming out. Or maybe it doesn't. If this were actually a debate hoping to collect information, then this would have been interesting to explore. But of course it wasn't nearly productive enough to even hope to shed light on this. But counsellor notes are NOT "objective paperwork."
It’s a simple power dynamic (I also know from plenty of experience), even worse at some institution. You, as the sufferer, are utterly powerless against the whims of essentially a bureaucrat who doesn’t really care at all what happens to you. It’s hilarious to me when people who have never suffered from a mental illness say “they should’ve just gotten help.” Like, exactly what help do you think exists? The situation isn’t totally hopeless but it’s worse than most mentally privileged people can ever imagine.
Interesting how when Timmy talks, and you interrupt in the slightest, he stops his entire point, says "you have to let me finish! can I finish?" then starts all over again, with a new point, doesn't even try to re-explain what he was saying before, even though in the moment it was soo important. But when you talk, he's free to just start babbling over the top of you.
I mean people did say to sit this one out because all Timmy did was try to talk over you, change the topic, deflect, etc. His intentions were never to clear the air, he felt like he had to do this to clear his name but didn't expect you to agree to the interview to challenge him. He couldn't give you any answers to why he painted such a terrible narrative about Sue because there isn't one. He probably just doesn't like her and didn't expect anyone to come along and debunk his entire video which now makes people side eye him and he loses his credibility.
yea i think it would have been good to focus on his feelings on sue as a person like asserting shes a narcissist, asking him how he came to that conclusion why he feels that way about her etc. he came on to argue that he wasnt maliciously lying in the vid but rather made mistakes (which, lol, "i wasnt lying im just lazy and incompetent") and i think his obvious bias against sue disproves that.
Miorby also interrupts Timmy here though? And Miorby is the one who starting the conversation in a heated manner - why does Timmy only get the blame? Literally watch the first 5 minutes, you can tell that Miorby is just ready to push his narrative and does not give Timmy time to actually say anything or even explain himself. It seems miorby had a narrative set about Timmy and just wanted to find a way to support it. Not on anyone's side just trying to be objective.
commented prior to hearing Miorby say it in the video, man’s mind is sharp doing it all live and processing it correctly and accurate in real time. I was subbed now the notification bell is on.
I watched Sue's Ted Talk forever ago and thought it was pretty good and one of the more interesting Ted Talks on that channel. When Jimmy's video popped up a few months ago I was pretty confused and after watching his "analysis" I was left even more confused because I noticed how much he was changing the narrative. I'm glad someone stood up to the bullshit, thanks Miorby.
same, I saw her ted talk years ago and when the timmy2cents video kept getting recommended to me all I could think was "bullshit" and I refused to watch the video, not a super educated move from me, dismissing a possible criticism that goes against my already formed preconceived notions and falling into confirmation bias, but I'm glad I did anyway given that my bullshit detector wasn't off at all
Same ! I watched it years ago and thought "do I remember her Ted Talk wrong ???" while watching Timmy's video because I didn't remember all of it but I do remember it being good.
@@OTG1776 this is hilarious because when miorby asked if he was in a position to make a claim that she was a narcissist after he flat out stated that she was, all I could think was "takes one to know one"
I don’t blame you for getting frustrated, he wasn’t answering your questions. Timmy why did you lie? Why were you trying to divert everything away from the topic which was your video. Plain and simple. There wouldn’t be this many people so passionately disagreeing with you if you didn’t commit such egregious negligence and deception
@@CptPurpleHero when he was asked "why did you edit the TED talk?', he started to talk about something different, Miorby interrupted to get Timmy back on track, Miorby stopped interrupting but Timmy's anecdote had nothing to do with the question and he tried to change the subject with a question of his own
This is a woman's real life. He could at least read the freaking book and do more research. It's all for clicks and he thinks he can justify his laziness with silly arguments.
It’s his personal opinions about a public event. People who were so ready to take his claims seriously are now turning against him with same witch hunt energy. Y’all over react to everything, clearly.
Jeeze. Im genuinely glad i found this guys video, i wouldnt have thought twice about my own opinion regarding sue after watching timmys video. This showed a lot
Yeah, unfortunately he has fans who are like him who fully support him and agree on anything he says. It's really pathetic. His unhinged fans are now calling anyone defending Sue Klebold simps 🤦🏻♀️
Standard narcissist behaviour tbh. They have to dominate the conversation and try to gish gallop any attempt at refuting their bullshit. The irony of course is Timmy calling Sue a narcissist when he acts more like a narcissist than Sue.
Miorby: *asks question/makes a point Timmy: *waffles/stutters/moves the goalposts Miorby: *interrupts to call Timmy out/get the conversation back on track Timmy: You have to let me finish, man, or I'm gonna hang up Bruh just say you screwed up, you're a disingenuous @$$, and you're mad you got called out on it. We can see and hear that.
Someone should time stamp this. It appeared to me Timmy did the majority of the talking and during that majority it was primarily Gish Galloping and changing subjects.
Almost as if he was trying to make an analogy and not literally thinking Sue Klebold is friends with Miranda Sings or whatever you think he was trying to say. It wasn't a GOOD analogy by any means, he the dude was attempting to make a point just like Miorby did when he referenced a forward from a totally different book not about the situation.
it's really pathetic that this guy is so hell bent on trying to defame the remorseful mother of one of the most notorious mass murderers in recent history
@@aersla1731 i think he just needed a controversial video (his words) to boost his channel and did not care that Sue is a real human being nor does he care for the victims.
Timmy2Cents: *Asks a question about a journal* Miorby: *Asks a question to clarify what he means exactly so that he can answer the question appropriately* Timmy2Cents: You haven't read the journals! Me: What?
“I made little mistakes here and there.” That’s a cute way of saying you completely misled your entire community through omission of facts, misquoting, and misinformation, into thinking that an innocent woman is responsible for a mass shooting.
This started on genuinely friendly terms and both of them being interested in trying to keep everything civil… and within a minute Timmy was deflecting and lying. It’s clear he has a vendetta against her. It’s sick. I’m going to say, he is garbage and proves he isnt going to ever take his criticism in good faith. He wanted to write a hit piece and did.
I'm from Sandy Hook, a town that had one of the most horrific widely known shootings, back in 2012. Tomorrow is the anniversary of that horrible event. Its easy for internet strangers who don't have any personal ties to these people/communities to hyper-analyze everything that comes out and act like true-crime obsessive armchair detectives because they have no personal stake in it, and yet they MAKE it their business when they put out videos like he did. I don't think people realize when they make these 'video essays' just how impactful and visible they are, and I can guarantee Sue had gotten harassment because of his video. I absolutely believe that Timmy's original video is misleading, cruel and punches down on someone whose gone through something horrible that we can't even begin to relate to. There is no perfect flawless way to navigate an experience like that because, hopefully, none of us will ever be in her shoes. Her perspective and information is invaluable. The scariest part was that I had watched his video when it first was making the rounds and it was really convincing. But I'm SO thankful I saw your video on it and its a sobering reminder how damning out-of-context quotes and withholding information can completely alter a narrative.
I edited out the last portion of my comment just cause it wasn't as important, mainly was just about my personal low tolerance for debates that have a lot of interrupting/not taking time to absorb what the other person is saying. but that's not really relevant and frankly I don't blame you for how heated this debate was; he's the one attacking and shaming a victim to the entire world, not you.
Miorby: Why did you deceptively edit Sue's talk? Timmy: You did the same thing to me. Wow Timmy, you got so caught up in 'hitting back' and 'winning the debate' that you accidentally conceded that your editing was deceptive. You also forgot that your video came out BEFORE the reaction to the video, so not really a good time to try to deflect blame.
The beginning is so frustrating, how could Sue be consistent in a point that was never hers? This dude was disingenuous from the start just like I called on his original comment
It makes me sad because, as I’ve said before, if only the conversation was not turned into one that basically revolves around Timmy’s ego and circlejerk of “I have more knowledge than you”, despite only having skimmed the book and done about 3 weeks worth of research. Even if neither party left agreeing with each other, there could have at least been understanding. Instead, Timmy barged in with his self centered nature and kept deflecting. An absolute shit show, and sadly not much was able to be debunked or answered. It’s a trainwreck, especially for someone who has been caught spreading outright lies and disinformation redhanded in a way that ultimately makes me believe that he made this video to create a smear campaign against a grieving mother who has suffered an unfathomable tragedy.
Dude, it's really clear to see who is in the right and who is most certainly in the wrong, and when the party who is in the wrong starts doubling down, it simply makes them twice as wrong in my estimation. This was David and Goliath-esque, and it's interesting seeing the dynamic between someone exuding the confidence of knowing they are protected by actual factual truth, and someone displaying the misplaced and frankly performative confidence in their own ability to spin a narrative in whatever direction suits him,
I think for the first 15 minutes in Miorby actually cut him off quite a bit, but only so that Tim didn't start deflecting for so long. Tim really turned it up a notch when he asked him about the McDonald's instance from the book (without even establishing what relevance it had) though.
@@6lacksappho456yeah I thought Miorby came in too strong kinda sad cause I was expecting a progressive debate. There’s better debate tactics. The debate topic got lost at some point.
@@6lacksappho456I agree that Miorby was interrupting too much, but when allowed to run with the last question it turned out that Timmy was just trying to change the subject
@@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrrthe key to debating is just simply listening. If Miorby simply listened it would of gave him all the ammo to get the other dude while carrying himself to a higher standard making the Timmy guy seem worse than he already was for lack of better terms.
@@OTG1776 that only works in formal debates where there's some expectation of good faith. This was not such an event, this was always going to happen. Either Miorby would have to constantly bring him back on track or if he employed your tactic Timmy would just drone on and on about irrelevant shit or ask miorby inane questions.
Opinions cannot be wrong, only the information surrounding them can be Whether intentionally or not. And when you double down on the wrong information, it's clearly intentional.
Wtf? Opinions are wrong if they’re not backed by genuine information. If you’re not working with good information, you’re not working with a good opinion. This is the dumbest comment I’ve ever read.
'I just had a baby, therefore I know more about parenting teenagers than you' I DID NOT SAY THAT!!! Yes Timmy, we know. Despite wanting to have it every way that suits you, we see right through you.
i find it not only ironic but also extremely hilarious that Timmy complained about Miorby bringing up "a red herring" fallacy like he's some sort of big shot, only to then literally make a red herring fallacy himself later on in the interview by bringing up the Miranda Sings stuff. this is the kind of stuff i'd see in a comedy
the random ass pop quizzes when he doesn't reference a thing in his own arguments besides "they said this uh a bunch of times" is audacious to say the least
Timmy is obviously guilty of what you accused him of. But boy, going in and having such an emotional reaction was not the approach. Definitely need a moderator. This was hard to watch. Timmy had no point or justification for what he did but letting him fall on his own ideas would have been nice to see. Instead just seeing two emotionally charged people try to talk over each other. Very hard to watch
@@pjstayshappy , listening to Miorby talk over Timmy every time he starts to speak is really frustrating. Every time Miorby gets a contradictory thought he suddenly has to blurt out his reaction.
@@topherkrockBruh, it was Timmy who kept interrupting Miorby lol. He kept saying "🤓you have to let me speak🤓" even though it was Miorby's turn to speak.
This is basically just an ad hominem attack by him because he is just trying to attack you for your level of knowledge, not actually address any real criticisms you had of him
I hope Timmy lives up to the parenting standard he is holding others up to. And if he doesn't, please show him this video and demand his accountability.
25:49 social worker here who has had to participate in creating a full family assessment. There is literally NO way of knowing which family member reported what piece of information, unless that information is directly attributed to an individual. If the assessment worker just wrote "X person was kicked out of the house," it doesn't mean that every person interviewed for the family assessment explicitly endorsed that statement. Also, the assessor is doing their best to gather and synthesize a TON of information from a myriad of sources. It cannot be assumed that Sue "openly admitted" anything based on that premise.
So he thinks Sue isn’t sorry enough? Put her in jail, but definitely not her husband because the father has no part. This guy needs to investigate his own misogyny.
His only defense is “uhh…my opinion” but the “objective” reality he implies to had used in his video is nowhere to be seen. showing edited “evidence” intentionally skipping quotes and acussing people of being a narcissist. I don’t think he will ever take down the video bc he only cares about money not integrity
I love how this Timmy thinks he's taking a W when asking specific questions about Dylan and Eric, when the focal point of the conversation isn't even on them. Timmy's video is about the integrity Susan Kleboid. It's not about the killers; it's not about their idols. Big L.
30:57 So infuriating how he asks three questions and cuts you off on all of them with the “correct” answer before you can even answer. So it looks like he was Correcting you even though you were clearly on track
I think neither of us look particularly good in this. I was desperate to hold him to a point and not let him weasel out (which was a negative attitude to take going into a discussion, and I need to do better) and Timmy was desperate to discredit me for not knowing enough and to lay out his well-rehearsed spin. I failed to get any of my points across, and he refused to take accountability. This conversation didn't move anything forward. But I said I'd upload the video regardless, I'm all about accountability - even if I'm the one who messed it up. Thank you for the kind words though, I appreciate it!
@@miorby He talked about how it's better that you just had this debate in person, but honestly this is why back-and-forth debates are always better than these spectacles. There's a reason academics have done that about far more impactful topics for years
@miorby you were correct it makes sense you were frustrated because he literally didn't let you talk about something ((the other book that had the farward)) that showed a similar structure. But he got mad when you didn't want to talk about Miranda sings when discussing the Ted talk ((TWO DIFFERENT MEDIUMS AND SCALES)) This is clear misinformation about the mother who's child murdered others, it's a good time to be frustrated. He's making accusations and false diagnosis when victims disagree. Seriously think this man is projecting. And yes as someone with an abusive parent who is a narcissist the way hee goes about assessing it is completely stupid. You can't throw that buzz word around, if a narcissistic person doesn't seek help and harms others, the patterns are VERY SPECIFIC and shouldn't be assumed like this
I think Miorby is correct. I also think that the video attempt to debate and expose Timmy was poorly done. If Miorby had remained calmer, and was less interrupting, he could have cornered Timmy. Instead it devolved into a "ya-huh" "nu-huh" back and forth and interrupting. This sounded like a trump debate, and it could have been a calm dissection and dismembering of Timmy All that happened was he said she said while they failed to actually talk about the main conflicts. This wasn't a debate, it was a grumpy argument
the way he kept asking you questions about the journals and the book but would immediately cut you off and prevent you from even answering was so embarrassing on his part
Him ignoring you was the best career move he could have made. I'm so glad your video got to him deeply, cuz I was wondering if it would ever amount to anything and boy did it. I see a soon to be youtube career
Man, you guys really needed a moderator. This debate was a compilation of gotcha moments, cutting of earth other, lack of preparation and no satisfying conclusion . I saw both of these videos with the original first and the rebuttal second, and they both made great sense at the time. This however has made me uncomfortable and mistrust both of you. You had some great points and great questions, but man you cut him off a lot. The both of you never accepted any of the points despite the quality. Next time, be prepared please, get a good moderator.
I'm currently in the bit about the divergence counselour and theres so much interesting shit in there, but none in a good way. Timmy keeps arguing that Sue changed her story because the counselour wrote an objective account of what was reported to them and Dylan's comments back up this claim. And that so many leaps it's probably worth a gold medal. The counselour is not magically objective just because they are a 3rd party or a medical professional, without knowing what was actually said you can't claim that they are. Second the Counselour met with more than Sue, so whatever conclusion they come to doesn't immediately mean Sue admitted to kicking Dylan's brother and she is now changing her story, and finally Dylan's comments (as far as Timmy is willing to bring up at least) are just saying his brother wasn't a part in his life anymore, and you can't make any inferences about Sue kicking him out just from that. This is kind of the problem with live "debates" like this, it takes almost a whole order of magnitude more of words to pick apart a single "argument", and Timmy ends up benefiting from that just because its unfair to expect Miorby to possess encyclopedic knowledge of the Klebolds and everything surrounding them. He can bring up stuff that's irrelevant cus it wasnt in either video, and call that a win for himself if Miorby isn't able to reply to it. "You don't know Sue's birthday? Wow I guess you arent as much of an expert as you thought :)"
And to Timmy's final point before bailing: Saying that her actions dont match her words makes no fucking sense when the actions you are focusing are just her fucking words. Like, if your problem is that she isn't admitting guilt, you can't just cut off sections of her ted talk where she admits guilt, and then pretend it's because she is being a hypocrite. That's just flat out dishonesty.
I like how he tried quizzing you on tiny details on the book & if you didn’t remember them exactly we would have to spend 5 minutes of him harping on the fact that he knows you didn’t read it.
@@fujifilm5127 what?? He asked him if he remembered if he knew who Dyan & Eric said their childhood hero was in the note book. That clearly doesn’t have shit to do with the arguments at hand he was just looking for the quickest possible own since he was already looking so bad
As a guy who has coached high school debate in the past, this timmy guy is so transparent with what hes trying to do. The "fallacy fallacy", the deflections, the gotchas, all things people try to use when they know theyre wrong and are trying to just eke out a victory. Good on you for controlling the tempo of debate and not letting him get away with all of that bs.
I love how he literally said he doesn't care what Randy Brown said and then immediately was like "but MIRANDASINGS", as if that isn't insanely less relevant to the conversion. Also, it's just super unreasonable for him to assume that because you didn't know one detail about the book that you didn't read it. Miorby, you did a great job, and I'm really glad you brought all this to light because if you didn't, me and a lot of others would still have such a negative opinion of this woman (and a positive one of Timmy)
The messed up thing about this guy’s video is Sue’s message is helpful. You might think you did everything right and raised the perfect kid but you don’t know what they’re thinking. If Timmy wants to be a good parent he needs to be aware of this.
Not looking good for Timmy. I will never understand people who blame parents for something like this, whether or not they are good or bad parents. It was Dylan’s choice. He had plenty of socialization to form his moral compass. His parents taught him that violence is wrong. Society taught him that violence was wrong. Sue did her absolute best as a parent. She respected her child’s privacy, she allowed him to have freedom while still doing her best to be his moral guide. And to blame her for this? Disgusting.
Being able to experience this in real time is incredible. The fact this video is on your channel and not Timmy’s (even though Timmy’s video got millions of views, so if he wanted more people to see it he could’ve offered to post it on his channel) speaks volumes that he clearly does not want anyone to know his video is full of misinformation, he wants us to think he just “made a mistake” when the WHOLE video is about Sue being a narcissistic, horrible mother for like 39 minutes.
While I wish the interview had gone more constructively, Timmy showed his intention was never to be accountable but to try and corner me by expecting me to know every story from the book. It has been years since I read it from beginning to end. When I attempted to ask him questions and keep him on the point he ran away! I'll make a video addressing this soon and then I'm done. Timmy has shown his true self!
He deleted his comment where he's planning on talking to you on his original video lmao
He wiggled at you and since you didn't wiggly back. He got scared you weren't a cheater and ran away. 🤣
@@NemesisOgreKingthis may be the most cultured comment I've read in months. Thank you, my friend.
Although I don’t agree with Timmy, there should have been a mediator. Both sides should be allowed to speak without interruption, that is a good progressive debate.
@@Just.Arguinghahah 😂
"I made a mistake" Dude, if you're going to accuse someone of being responsible for a massacre, then it's probably a good idea to get the facts right.
THANK YOU. Jfc at least you have some sense ❤😂
It's a motte-and-bailey, at that. He's trying to make it seem like miorby is attacking him over innocuous human error, rather than pointing out the trend of deceptive editing Timmy uses in his video to prime his audience against Sue.
Especially after three million people have seen it, so much misinfo to so many people. It’s pathetic and sad, really.
@@k8x97 , Miorby is being dishonest and deceptive. How can you side with him?
@@topherkrockSilence, Timmy simp
I would say that misattributing quotes and deliberately cutting sentences out that would invalidate your point is more than a "little mistake".
He acts like quoting the psychologist is the problem while he's completely missing the point. The point is that he both misattributed the quote to sue AND said that she "openly" admits to kicking Byron out. "Openly" would imply that she admits this... openly. Admitting it to a psychologist but not in public would be admitting it "privately". That's basic stuff
common kyle W
aye i love your channel so much man. i’ve been binge listening to all your videos work for the past week.
@@zedknot230 That's awesome, glad to hear it! Especially in such a random place
@@zedknot230LITERALLY ME TOO! i’ve been listening to dire trip for the past couple weeks at work, best stuff. weird to find him here, it’s nice when based youtubers support eachother
@@diretripwoah didn't expect to see you here! Love your channel man
the way he expects you to have every piece of media relating to columbine memorized front and back is ridiculous
"You haven't read Johnny McNuggets essay on Dylan's diet? Wow, did you do any research?"
It's a debate people usually prep research notes for that, instead of immediately arguing about your wrong I'm right which leaves no area for conclusion in this "debate" also a weird hill to die on defending the parents of a school shooter on both sides honestly this just a shame blame game literally no point talking over someone an entire 51 minutes and then act confused as to why it's not going well
Hasan moment lol
Also I'm actually sad Jimmy did something like this when he was such a good creator. Now I feel like I have to second guess what I've seen from his other videos.
@@Femboyfriend well yeah but when you prepare for a debate, you prepare with relevant material, he was quizzing him on random details, rather than trying to make a point. also at the end of the video, timmy said he wanted to do this asap, so miorby said the soonest was in a day, so today. look, i do think miorby did talk over him unnecessarily at times, but timmy was also just not answering the question or including useless information
@@Femboyfriend if the topic is the lies Timmy said, what's the point of bringing up sections of the book and other pieces of writing that weren't in either video.
You needed a mediator for this, I think you're in the right in this video and your last but the amount of yelling over one another and both sides trying to constantly interject and never letting the other finish made this a mess to get through. This wasn't much of a debate and turned into an emotionally charged argument between two people from the minute it started.
Keep up the good work though, I appreciate you fact checking people and happy you attempted a dialogue even if it didn't go well.
Agreed. Maybe I’m wrong, but the first one I see talking over the other is Timmy talking over Miorby, not to excuse Miorby talking over Timmy later on. A moderator would’ve made this much more productive.
Debates with moderators are horrible because it gives an undue level of respect and legitimacy to the debater who is wrong and acting in bad faith.
@@emporioalnino4670, that doesn't make sense. If Miorby wanted to bring Timmy to his channel to talk, doesn't that already lend the same level of credence that you are claiming?
@@gjmguy7994, Miorby talked over Timmy quite a bit early on. It doesn't excuse Timmy, but it does show that Miorby didn't want answers.
I’m unsure I can finish this. It’s so aggravating hearing someone say “you have to let me talk” and then completely talk over you every time you talk.
this was a learning experience for me. i didn’t think too hard on timmy’s video and just listened to it as background noise, taking him at his word. because who would make a long ass video full of lies? thank you for exposing this and for reminding all of us to stay vigilant and think critically.
ditto. + i can promise i’ll never make that mistake again. if his video did nothing else it did that.
oh + exposed him as a person w| 0 integrity. so two things i guess.
Who would make a long ass video full of lies? Someone who wants you to believe those lies.
I'll admit I watched Timmy's video in the bg too, basically taking everything he was saying at face value. This and hbomber's plagiarism video has definitely made me reevaluate giving youtubers the benefit of the doubt right off the bat
It's happened to me before, too. It can be easy to hear something and just assume it sounds right enough.
Always, always check.
@@ahkarivae i think that's kind of the crux of this case tbh - that to many of us the question "who would make a long ass video full of lies" isn't an entirely rehtorical, but that there's a subconcious assumption that there would at least be a more understandable reason to deceive people. like someone who has a personal or political agenda, is biased because of a sponsorship, following a popular narrative started by someone else who has an agenda, or even someone making unintentional mistakes from not being well-read enough. the idea that someone would make a whole video lying about a specific individual, with a topic that isn't even a particularly current hot topic, just for the hell of it is strange enough that at least for me it put my guard down. your answer that it's as simple as "someone who wants you to believe those lies" may be blunt, but it's an important lesson. people lie for any or no reason.
@@hellaSwankkyTooI've said that before...and then Timmy's video happened. 😂 I love your optimism but honestly we probably will get fooled again and just have to try to continue to listen to dissenting opinions even when it doesn't seem necessary I guess 🤷
The funniest part is that your original video only got like 150,000 views. If he was going to just handle it like this he literally just could have ignored you 😂
Weak people have a hard time controlling themselves.
He couldn't. His audience was really letting him have it in the comments of his video
@@curleyqreviews9793 Only if you sorted by new! Most of the top showing comments are super positive about the video.
@@curleyqreviews9793 Oh, nevermind they're all negative now 🤣
@@curleyqreviews9793 I'm seeing a lot of the top critical comments on his video have been removed, he's in full damage control now. Removed his pinned comment about this debate as well.
i’m so thankful for your video. i had watched timmy’s video a while back as background noise while i was doing something else so i didn’t pay as much attention to it. i remember having some questions or confusion when first watching, but figured it was just due to me not watching as closely as i should have. i totally would not have questioned anything or known if it wasn’t for your content.
Same I watch a lot of similar length content in a similar fashion and I had a couple of "nah that doesn't really make sense" moments but it didn't bother me enough to stop watching and look it up. Probably because it was covering a topic I hadn't done thorough research on before watching.
Same. His video came on while I was running true crime stuff in the background while I was crocheting and remember it sounding off but not fully listening, but a few days later I saw the rebuttal and THAT math was mathin.
pretty much had the same experience lol
Timmy made a video on sue, using her book as one of the main driving factors to his argument. And he himself admits he didn’t even read the whole thing. He “skimmed it, fast read” that alone discredits him in my opinion lol.
Pretty sure he only said this as plausible deniability
He says he read it after making the video which is just an incredible admission, honestly.
@rewegachiweerichi471 that's actually exactly what he did lmao
@@achehex Was the video centered around a) the book or b) the Ted Talk? Hint: look at the thumbnail
@@Stouty He didn't have to bring up the book in the video then. I think he just liked that one review and twisted the video to fit it in somewhere
Hearing jimmy repeatedly scream about what happened at the mcdonalds was a surreal experience to be sure
What was his point even? Miorby caught him misrepresenting facts, misattributing quotes, etc. Whether he read the book or not doesn't change that. He could have not read a word of the book and all that would do is make it even more pathetic that it was o easy to catch Jimmy lying.
Timestamp?
he really asked a battle of the books trivia ass question and then took that as evidence that oH sO yOu NeVeR rEaD tHe BoOk ThEn. I've never been more annoyed by someone. "You have to let me finish" as he yells over miorby. "that's called a red herring" before he proceeds to strawman the hell out of miorby. SO juvenile. pretty pathetic watching his shell crack live compared to the image he gave himself in edited videos.
@@Gamebadmegreat9770 around 15:00
Why did happen at McDonald's?
Timmy is horrible. He’s condescending and misleading. He objectively lost this debate. He’s shown himself to be an obnoxious person who doesn’t know when to admit he’s wrong. Well done!
Honestly I find it so rude that Miorby can’t get one word in but gets a “warning” for over talking even though he’s only trying to address him by name lmao
@@AComicsChannel for real, it was cringe to watch Timmy be an obnoxious asshole
Couldn't agree more 👏
The whole debate was Timmy saying an obvious lie and then getting flustered when he gets corrected. He complains that he is getting interupted when he was just going to embarass himself if he kept on speaking.
@isaacp.m.305your English is fine, I understand you perfectly :)
This guy is desperate to blame a woman for her son's actions. She is the first to admit that something went wrong, but none of us can know exactly what. She loved her son the best she could and she couldn't save him from himself any more than she could save anyone else from his actions. I have nothing but empathy from her because no matter her mistakes, she was clearly a loving mother doing her best. I watched her Ted Talk and found it to be excellent. He seems to be advocating for giving your child zero privacy in an attempt to keep them from doing something wrong, when in fact it can ONLY make the situation worse. Good thing he thinks he's god's gift to parenting; I'm sure his child will turn out perfect.
im curious to hear his opinions on gun control honestly. columbine was a pivotal moment for us gun control debates, and it would be mighty convenient to spin the narrative that people only died because of terrible parenting. it allows people to focus on the mother who shouldve “done better” instead of wonder why this kid had such easy access to guns in the first place, exemplified in the fact that timmy left out that sue didnt even keep guns in the house.
@@twinbruisesonmyshinsguns don't kill people, mothers do
To be fair it's EXTREMELY clear why they did what they did. Not only did they have manifestos but mass murders both before and after also had manifestos talking about what they did and why. In short it was hate coupled with a God complex.
Though their manifestos only tell us why THEY say they did this. Not why they actually did it. I very much doubt those reasons are the same.@@OTG1776
I feel like it's coming from some kind of internalized misogyny but that's totally just a vibe I get. He does seem really determined to blame Sue for this when she clearly has punished herself enough. He is mad that she is telling her story in her words and thinks that she should fade into obscurity at best, or be demonized for her teen son's unforeseeable actions. People get blindsided, this dude is gonna have a rude awakening when his daughters grow up and hide weed, or sneak booze, or who knows commits a murder, because people do unexplainable shit all the time for any reason at all, just because you want to neatly assign blame doesn't mean you are right to.
"What happened in the McDonald's" has to become a thing now
The reason Dylan was upset in the McDonalds is because some teenagers were laughing at a nearby table, and he thought that it was at him.
@@murphjones2244 So Timmy took one minor detail and blew it out of proportion? Imagine my shock /s
I like how when you ask him a very straightforward question: “Why did you edit out part of the TED talk where Sue takes accountability?” Timmy commits one of the most obvious examples of the tu quoque fallacy saying “you did the same thing to me.” Also his diversions from the questions are so obvious it’s painful. Timmy not only did a terrible job defending his position but at the same time managed to make himself look horrible by engaging in numerous fallacies, attempting to shift the burden of proof, attempting to change the topic when pushed into a corner. Very amateur stuff.
He made one video about a janky Russian game having cheaters and his ego exploded. He’s gone full brainiac. Idk what it is, but these “creators” get one fat Adsense check and decide this is their career and throw everything else away
Miranda Sings did not even pretend to apologize, she said she's "sorry to say she won't be apologizing." Sue absolutely accounts for her role in her son's life that led to this.
don't let the truth get in the way of an off topic monologue.
Ur weird
It sucks this turned into internet drama rather than a larger discussion, but Timmy probably had no intention of acting in good faith here.
He farted out ink and scooted away like a cowardly octopus 🐙
"Mehhhh YOU GOTTA LET ME FINISH MEHHHHHHHH"
@@DodongoManoofHonestly more like a weasel than an octopus.
@@DodongoManoofImagine some Christianity vs Atheism debate where the atheist asks a random Bible verse and bc the Christian can't recall it off hand he says "You haven't read it have you? Im not moving on until you admit you haven't read the Bible!" 😂
He literally cut the "failed as a mother" quote because it didn't fit his narrative/opinion. Hammer looking only for nails imo. Great job Miorby.
She said she believed it at the time, implying she doesn't anymore.
Seems like Timmy needs to trade those 2 cents for 2 brain cells to rub together so he can actually answer one of your questions properly 😂
Brain cells cost more than that.
I've debated for years. That Timmy dude is among worst type of debater. I picked up his little tricks throughout the debate. The implicit, unjustified assumption here, the subtle loaded question there, the avoidance of direct answers.
Oh? You’ve debated for years? I bet that means you’ve debated quite a bit? Some might say you’re a mass debater?
Yep, sorry bucko. You just got rolled by a debate pro. And before you ask, yes I did have to debate a lot in order to earn that title. Oh, what’s that? Yeah, I guess that means people could call me a mass debater… FUCK, you are good. You may have won this debate carnivorous_vegan, but know our feud isn’t over just yet…
He honestly sounded like Kent Hovind and that's the best way I can describe it- the fast rambling and CONSTANT interruptions, and avoiding the questions as well.
I did not do any "official" debating (if it can be called that 😅) but I love to debate with my friends and family. If someone kept interrupting me like this, kept avoiding direct questions and displayed this behavior I would've just walked out.
I would love to see this debate but with allotted time for each argument and someone to stop Timmy from redirecting the conversation (I guess the moderator).
he just uses useless gotchas that are unrelated to the topic asked, like bruh???
5 minutes in and so far Miorby is interrupting more than Timmy (I’m coming in already on Miorby’s side, so the reason this bugs me is Timmy is the one I REALLY want to hear from uninterrupted here). Maybe this will flip further on, but either way I really wish one of them had proposed a moderator. I get the impression from both of them being here that they each believe they can set the record straight, and each have very different ideas of what a “straight record” looks like at this point… so of course even amongst the coolest heads, things are bound to get heated.
EDIT: Finished the video. It really fell apart at 15 minutes in at the "did you/didn't you read the book?" part. Timmy basically abandoned the debate in order to try to catch Miorby on something meaningless (it doesn't matter whether or not Miorby read the whole book... he clearly read enough to debunk Timmy's read on the book. I don't think the McDonald's scene is even in either video, is it? So how is it part of the debate?)
After seeing in your video how Timmy misled his audience, I don't even want to hear anything from him. It was the first video of his that I saw and I was greatly disappointed. I don't know if he was being intentionally malicious but he shared his two cents and he blew it.
Fr. First video of his I ever saw, and he was immediately shown to be a massive liar
True I think that’s super valid esp after the hbomber guy video. I think it’s fair to not give intentionally misleading channels your viewership.
It was literally the first video on his channel too if i remember correctly
@@llamacopter677bro literally shat the bed on arrival
@@llamacopter677
I think his main channel is one he co-hosts with his wife
2cents is now proper fucked. Can you imagine running away because you can't talk for 20 minutes about Miranda Sings? Maybe he can work on projects with Illuminaughtii now.
I was so confused with the argument. Like he was saying the apology wasn’t meant, but if that was the case show her saying she was a bad mom and then align that with her other statements. Leaving it out is just purposely disingenuous.
@@Adeuceinthejohn and that's what he can't refute which is why he ran away.
I mean the vast majority of his original audience from his gaming channel have no clue about any of this.
@@Aaron-fh6hd take the comments to that channel too. Hold him accountable for his lies.
Timmy doesn't understand that presenting information dishonestly and out of context is as bad as just making shit up.
I'd say it may even be worse, making stuff up is easy. Actually editing and cherry picking sows proper effort and intention was put in
Especially at this point where he’s been corrected and admitted he “messed up,” why not delete the video and repost a corrected version?
It's some major Alex Jones level of antic, which is in of itself, conspiratorial. Just look at how Timmy frames his video. He heavily implied there's more even though it's entirely baseless skepticism on his end.
A hell of a lot of deflection here. 'Do you have children? ' was the start of a slippery slope.
I was like is he aboutvto blame his wrong doing on his kids
A moderator definitely would have been helpful. In your defense, it's hard to be patient when you're arguing with someone like TImmy, but I think this debate would have benefited greatly from you both allowing each other to talk longer without interrupting. I see why you would want to correct things as they come, but you're not on a time limit so you would still have the opportunity to disagree as the conversation moves forward. Plus, his arguments are so weak that he looks bad just for making them in the first place. All in all I think you did the best you could and I still 100% agree with you. I also wanted to thank you for doing so much to address this issue. I hope this comment didn't rub you the wrong way, I just really appreciate what you've done here and I want you to continue to make this type of content in the most effective way possible.
I agree, i love miorby but he was interrupting Timmy as much as timmy was interrupting him. You look so much better in a debate when you dont have to cut someome off.
@@Smokey35400 Agreed. At least Timmy still made himself look bad, there's no way people are going to trust him as much going forward. And you have to respect Miorby for keeping the video up anyway and rolling with the criticism.
@@jackthurman2642 100%!
I’m just starting this and of course couldn’t help but read some comments 😂 just wanted to say this is a really good comment you shouldn’t feel bad at all - constructive criticism is important!
@@cady__ I'm the same way when it comes to reading comments 😂 Thank you I appreciate that!
As someone who's been to a fair share of therapists/counselors, it actually pisses me off how much Timmy insists that what the counselor wrote about Sue kicking Byron out of their house *must* be true *because* a counselor wrote it. Whenever I go through my reports from therapists, I always find some inaccuracies and things that should have been worded better by the therapist. Counselors and therapists are regular human beings who also make mistakes and sometimes word things wrong based on a split second judgement they might have made during a session.
I once got a report from a therapist I was seeing saying I am presenting with depressive and anxious symptoms. The last depressive episode I had was a few years ago. I last had a panic attack in high school. In our previous sessions I always told her that my mood has been stable and positive for quite some time but that I am struggling with focus and productivity (I was seeing her because I was in the process of getting an ADHD diagnosis). So why did she write that? Because during that session, I cried when I told her about a traumatic event that happened that summer.
But according to Timmy2C*nts over here I must be depressed and anxious because a therapist wrote it once.
Counsellors will be the first people to admit to you that counselling notes are not "objective fact." They are secondhand info given to the counsellor FROM their client, then passed through the filter of the counsellor's own interpretation. As an exercise, some counsellors actually recommend having clients take their own notes, then comparing notes at the next session as a way of seeing the different things client and counsellor take away.
One area where I do not think Timmy is necessarily wrong is that, at the end of the day, he and Miorby are comparing two different information sources that say different things. There actually is some ambiguity there. Maybe it shows Sue's story changing from the time of the therapy to the time of the book coming out. Or maybe it doesn't. If this were actually a debate hoping to collect information, then this would have been interesting to explore. But of course it wasn't nearly productive enough to even hope to shed light on this. But counsellor notes are NOT "objective paperwork."
It’s a simple power dynamic (I also know from plenty of experience), even worse at some institution. You, as the sufferer, are utterly powerless against the whims of essentially a bureaucrat who doesn’t really care at all what happens to you. It’s hilarious to me when people who have never suffered from a mental illness say “they should’ve just gotten help.” Like, exactly what help do you think exists? The situation isn’t totally hopeless but it’s worse than most mentally privileged people can ever imagine.
Interesting how when Timmy talks, and you interrupt in the slightest, he stops his entire point, says "you have to let me finish! can I finish?" then starts all over again, with a new point, doesn't even try to re-explain what he was saying before, even though in the moment it was soo important. But when you talk, he's free to just start babbling over the top of you.
gishgallop, but done a different way, there must be a name for it
Smarmy Individual
I mean people did say to sit this one out because all Timmy did was try to talk over you, change the topic, deflect, etc. His intentions were never to clear the air, he felt like he had to do this to clear his name but didn't expect you to agree to the interview to challenge him. He couldn't give you any answers to why he painted such a terrible narrative about Sue because there isn't one. He probably just doesn't like her and didn't expect anyone to come along and debunk his entire video which now makes people side eye him and he loses his credibility.
yea i think it would have been good to focus on his feelings on sue as a person like asserting shes a narcissist, asking him how he came to that conclusion why he feels that way about her etc. he came on to argue that he wasnt maliciously lying in the vid but rather made mistakes (which, lol, "i wasnt lying im just lazy and incompetent") and i think his obvious bias against sue disproves that.
He should have expected this wouldnt be easy because this guy had the balls to debate a larger channel after calling him out
Miorby also interrupts Timmy here though? And Miorby is the one who starting the conversation in a heated manner - why does Timmy only get the blame? Literally watch the first 5 minutes, you can tell that Miorby is just ready to push his narrative and does not give Timmy time to actually say anything or even explain himself. It seems miorby had a narrative set about Timmy and just wanted to find a way to support it.
Not on anyone's side just trying to be objective.
@@skole349telling the truth/correcting bad journalism is not “pushing a narrative”
Crazy how he went from bringing up his reaching out to Randy Brown then flipping immediately to disregarding him.
commented prior to hearing Miorby say it in the video, man’s mind is sharp doing it all live and processing it correctly and accurate in real time. I was subbed now the notification bell is on.
I watched Sue's Ted Talk forever ago and thought it was pretty good and one of the more interesting Ted Talks on that channel. When Jimmy's video popped up a few months ago I was pretty confused and after watching his "analysis" I was left even more confused because I noticed how much he was changing the narrative. I'm glad someone stood up to the bullshit, thanks Miorby.
same, I saw her ted talk years ago and when the timmy2cents video kept getting recommended to me all I could think was "bullshit" and I refused to watch the video, not a super educated move from me, dismissing a possible criticism that goes against my already formed preconceived notions and falling into confirmation bias, but I'm glad I did anyway given that my bullshit detector wasn't off at all
Same ! I watched it years ago and thought "do I remember her Ted Talk wrong ???" while watching Timmy's video because I didn't remember all of it but I do remember it being good.
Wow. You didn't think about her Ted Talk critically and believe her "poor me" story.
@@Oswaldo_Godoy Same here
@@camille_skye3768More like Timmy NON sense amirite?
The fact that he was brazen enough to debate with you after you clearly debunked everything he said in his original video is wild to me.
Narcissistic behavior lol.
@@OTG1776 this is hilarious because when miorby asked if he was in a position to make a claim that she was a narcissist after he flat out stated that she was, all I could think was "takes one to know one"
@@colemix1852 Hahahaha! My MAN! *Denzel Voice*😂💯🔥
@@OTG1776 😂
Timmy was projecting the whole time, he’s the narcissist! 😂
I don’t blame you for getting frustrated, he wasn’t answering your questions. Timmy why did you lie? Why were you trying to divert everything away from the topic which was your video. Plain and simple. There wouldn’t be this many people so passionately disagreeing with you if you didn’t commit such egregious negligence and deception
Nah, Timmy was never given a real chance to answer any questions without being interrupted.
@@CptPurpleHerohi Timmy 🤓
@@SpaghettiEnjoyer hello
@@CptPurpleHero coping 😂
@@CptPurpleHero when he was asked "why did you edit the TED talk?', he started to talk about something different, Miorby interrupted to get Timmy back on track, Miorby stopped interrupting but Timmy's anecdote had nothing to do with the question and he tried to change the subject with a question of his own
A Miranda Sings apologist is not what I thought would come out of this.
He was? I thought he was gonna say something like "she acknowledges the accusations, but downplays everything else LiKe NaRKy SuE"
miorby: *breathes*
Timmy: “Y-you have to let me finish.”
What?!? Miorby did interrupt Timmy the hole time, what are you about
😂😂😂
This is a woman's real life. He could at least read the freaking book and do more research. It's all for clicks and he thinks he can justify his laziness with silly arguments.
EXACTLY
It’s his personal opinions about a public event. People who were so ready to take his claims seriously are now turning against him with same witch hunt energy. Y’all over react to everything, clearly.
Jeeze. Im genuinely glad i found this guys video, i wouldnt have thought twice about my own opinion regarding sue after watching timmys video. This showed a lot
he got 3 million views of course he thought he'd get away with it. that's a super typical guilty response. "why would i ever do that bad thing"
You'd be surprised how well that works in real life when conversations aren't being recorded
Bro asks "do you think I thought i could get away that" As if he wasn't getting away with it up until a month ago 💀💀
Nobody was questioning Timmy's video until Miorby made his video. He would have gotten away with it
LOOL he’s gonna need level 100 in speech if he’s going to win any respect back from his audience 😭😂
What sucks is that his following is so large that they just piggyback off of Timmy regardless of what he says.
Yeah, unfortunately he has fans who are like him who fully support him and agree on anything he says. It's really pathetic. His unhinged fans are now calling anyone defending Sue Klebold simps 🤦🏻♀️
Timmy: *asks question
Miorby: *starts to answer
Timmy: *BLAH BLAH BLAH 5 more questions!
Miorby: *talks
Timmy: "YOU HAVE TO LET ME SPEAK"
Standard narcissist behaviour tbh. They have to dominate the conversation and try to gish gallop any attempt at refuting their bullshit. The irony of course is Timmy calling Sue a narcissist when he acts more like a narcissist than Sue.
Miorby: *asks question/makes a point
Timmy: *waffles/stutters/moves the goalposts
Miorby: *interrupts to call Timmy out/get the conversation back on track
Timmy: You have to let me finish, man, or I'm gonna hang up
Bruh just say you screwed up, you're a disingenuous @$$, and you're mad you got called out on it. We can see and hear that.
Someone should time stamp this. It appeared to me Timmy did the majority of the talking and during that majority it was primarily Gish Galloping and changing subjects.
There was nothing crazier than watching this live and him all of a sudden bringing up MirandaSings
Do you think Timmys going to learn to play the ukulele
Almost as if he was trying to make an analogy and not literally thinking Sue Klebold is friends with Miranda Sings or whatever you think he was trying to say. It wasn't a GOOD analogy by any means, he the dude was attempting to make a point just like Miorby did when he referenced a forward from a totally different book not about the situation.
That is absolutely NOT what I thought. It was just wild when it happened when I wasn’t expecting anything like that.
it's really pathetic that this guy is so hell bent on trying to defame the remorseful mother of one of the most notorious mass murderers in recent history
But why? Does he ever explain it?
@@aersla1731bc he’s prolly the real narcissist and he loves the attention and money he makes off of it.
@@aersla1731 i think he just needed a controversial video (his words) to boost his channel and did not care that Sue is a real human being nor does he care for the victims.
@@official_miracoli1186 That's pretty messed up....
@@aersla1731#money
Timmy2Cents: *Asks a question about a journal*
Miorby: *Asks a question to clarify what he means exactly so that he can answer the question appropriately*
Timmy2Cents: You haven't read the journals!
Me: What?
Then the sudden pop quiz?? Unhinged
He really studied before the call so he could ask questions unrelated like it's a gotcha moment and he's not supposed to be the one defending himself
"I'm not asking you to recite the book"
*asks you to recite the book*
“SO YOU DON’T KNOW WHICH NINJA TURTLE WAS HIS FAVORITE?! SEE?! YOU DIDN’T READ THE BOOK!”
what the f is wrong with this timmy guy.
“I made little mistakes here and there.” That’s a cute way of saying you completely misled your entire community through omission of facts, misquoting, and misinformation, into thinking that an innocent woman is responsible for a mass shooting.
This started on genuinely friendly terms and both of them being interested in trying to keep everything civil… and within a minute Timmy was deflecting and lying. It’s clear he has a vendetta against her.
It’s sick.
I’m going to say, he is garbage and proves he isnt going to ever take his criticism in good faith. He wanted to write a hit piece and did.
"Who was their other idol from the journals?"
"Well, it w--"
"YOU HAVEN'T READ THE JOURNALS!"
😂 I couldn’t believe he was being that dishonest just to try to 1-up him. Truly pathetic.
I'm from Sandy Hook, a town that had one of the most horrific widely known shootings, back in 2012. Tomorrow is the anniversary of that horrible event. Its easy for internet strangers who don't have any personal ties to these people/communities to hyper-analyze everything that comes out and act like true-crime obsessive armchair detectives because they have no personal stake in it, and yet they MAKE it their business when they put out videos like he did. I don't think people realize when they make these 'video essays' just how impactful and visible they are, and I can guarantee Sue had gotten harassment because of his video. I absolutely believe that Timmy's original video is misleading, cruel and punches down on someone whose gone through something horrible that we can't even begin to relate to.
There is no perfect flawless way to navigate an experience like that because, hopefully, none of us will ever be in her shoes. Her perspective and information is invaluable. The scariest part was that I had watched his video when it first was making the rounds and it was really convincing. But I'm SO thankful I saw your video on it and its a sobering reminder how damning out-of-context quotes and withholding information can completely alter a narrative.
I edited out the last portion of my comment just cause it wasn't as important, mainly was just about my personal low tolerance for debates that have a lot of interrupting/not taking time to absorb what the other person is saying. but that's not really relevant and frankly I don't blame you for how heated this debate was; he's the one attacking and shaming a victim to the entire world, not you.
I kinda wish this talk had a moderator but I'm really glad it didn't because it was funny af imo
same! The memories. This was gold! I'm still chuckling hours later.
"She refuses to give any admission that she failed as a mother"
"Did you watch the Miranda Sings apology video???"
what an exchange
Miorby: Why did you deceptively edit Sue's talk?
Timmy: You did the same thing to me.
Wow Timmy, you got so caught up in 'hitting back' and 'winning the debate' that you accidentally conceded that your editing was deceptive. You also forgot that your video came out BEFORE the reaction to the video, so not really a good time to try to deflect blame.
The beginning is so frustrating, how could Sue be consistent in a point that was never hers? This dude was disingenuous from the start just like I called on his original comment
It makes me sad because, as I’ve said before, if only the conversation was not turned into one that basically revolves around Timmy’s ego and circlejerk of “I have more knowledge than you”, despite only having skimmed the book and done about 3 weeks worth of research. Even if neither party left agreeing with each other, there could have at least been understanding.
Instead, Timmy barged in with his self centered nature and kept deflecting. An absolute shit show, and sadly not much was able to be debunked or answered. It’s a trainwreck, especially for someone who has been caught spreading outright lies and disinformation redhanded in a way that ultimately makes me believe that he made this video to create a smear campaign against a grieving mother who has suffered an unfathomable tragedy.
it is, nevertheless, immensely entertaining :D
Dude, it's really clear to see who is in the right and who is most certainly in the wrong, and when the party who is in the wrong starts doubling down, it simply makes them twice as wrong in my estimation. This was David and Goliath-esque, and it's interesting seeing the dynamic between someone exuding the confidence of knowing they are protected by actual factual truth, and someone displaying the misplaced and frankly performative confidence in their own ability to spin a narrative in whatever direction suits him,
Desperately needed an unbiased moderator.
I have to admit, 15 minutes in, I was praying you'd just snap and tell him to shut the fuck up and let you answer once.
I think for the first 15 minutes in Miorby actually cut him off quite a bit, but only so that Tim didn't start deflecting for so long. Tim really turned it up a notch when he asked him about the McDonald's instance from the book (without even establishing what relevance it had) though.
@@6lacksappho456yeah I thought Miorby came in too strong kinda sad cause I was expecting a progressive debate. There’s better debate tactics. The debate topic got lost at some point.
@@6lacksappho456I agree that Miorby was interrupting too much, but when allowed to run with the last question it turned out that Timmy was just trying to change the subject
@@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrrthe key to debating is just simply listening. If Miorby simply listened it would of gave him all the ammo to get the other dude while carrying himself to a higher standard making the Timmy guy seem worse than he already was for lack of better terms.
@@OTG1776 that only works in formal debates where there's some expectation of good faith. This was not such an event, this was always going to happen. Either Miorby would have to constantly bring him back on track or if he employed your tactic Timmy would just drone on and on about irrelevant shit or ask miorby inane questions.
This "conversation" would have gone much better with a mediator or a neutral third party.
the second he went "so you didn't like my video" I knew the way it was going to go lmao
Opinions cannot be wrong, only the information surrounding them can be
Whether intentionally or not.
And when you double down on the wrong information, it's clearly intentional.
Wtf? Opinions are wrong if they’re not backed by genuine information. If you’re not working with good information, you’re not working with a good opinion. This is the dumbest comment I’ve ever read.
Opinions can absolutely be wrong, it's wrong to like Steven Seagal.
@@JrezThat's a straw man, nobody likes Steven Segal
@@Jrezthey can be morally or ethically or otherwise wrong, but not objectively wrong
@@Jrezwhat if you like him as a lolcow
Christ you really should have gotten someone to moderate this discussion. It's kind of all over the place
'I just had a baby, therefore I know more about parenting teenagers than you' I DID NOT SAY THAT!!! Yes Timmy, we know. Despite wanting to have it every way that suits you, we see right through you.
When Timmy has three teenagers in the house he will be mortified at how wrong he was about parenting.
Honestly, this man should have his channel deleted. Obvious misinformation should not be tolerated. These are dangerous times.
Honestly, people who unironically believe this should delete themselves
@@briankaes1274 Sure. That seems like an entirely reasonable response... /s
@@k.s.deville3927 I couldn't care less.
@@briankaes1274 a bit strong there.
@@briankaes1274 sorry I'm a crowd follower, you first
The way he keeps going "let meeee talk!" is so manipulative he's so insufferable.
i find it not only ironic but also extremely hilarious that Timmy complained about Miorby bringing up "a red herring" fallacy like he's some sort of big shot, only to then literally make a red herring fallacy himself later on in the interview by bringing up the Miranda Sings stuff. this is the kind of stuff i'd see in a comedy
Just minutes in, the way he keeps trying to gishgallop, it's clear he has no argument.
Spoiler alert: you have described this entire debate.
This is the first time I've ever heard the term "gishgallop"
the random ass pop quizzes when he doesn't reference a thing in his own arguments besides "they said this uh a bunch of times" is audacious to say the least
being the biggest fanboy of the one source you read does not make you well-researched it makes you biased. and a bit of a jackass
What happened at McDonalds?
What the fuck happened at McDonalds??
Y’all desperately need a moderator lol
Yeah this was very unfocused and unproductive
I was really hoping Miorby would do better in this and make Timmy look like even more of an asshole
Timmy is obviously guilty of what you accused him of. But boy, going in and having such an emotional reaction was not the approach. Definitely need a moderator. This was hard to watch. Timmy had no point or justification for what he did but letting him fall on his own ideas would have been nice to see. Instead just seeing two emotionally charged people try to talk over each other. Very hard to watch
THIS! Omg watching this was so hard it felt very bad faith and militaristic. It's not an interrogation it's a debate
@@pjstayshappy , listening to Miorby talk over Timmy every time he starts to speak is really frustrating. Every time Miorby gets a contradictory thought he suddenly has to blurt out his reaction.
My thoughts exactly, there were so many moments that, if Miorby had just let him continue, Timmy would've outed himself.
@@topherkrockBruh, it was Timmy who kept interrupting Miorby lol. He kept saying "🤓you have to let me speak🤓" even though it was Miorby's turn to speak.
@@gabemissouri, I love how childlike your view of the discussion is. How was it Miorby's turn to speak as Timmy had just opened his mouth?
This is basically just an ad hominem attack by him because he is just trying to attack you for your level of knowledge, not actually address any real criticisms you had of him
Watching him run away on stream was so funny (funniest part was him trying to discuss about miranda sings)
I hope Timmy lives up to the parenting standard he is holding others up to.
And if he doesn't, please show him this video and demand his accountability.
I guess we'll see if his children end up doing any school shootings
I tried spreading the message to other channel's comments, hoping we get an hbomberguy video about this
If we do it’ll be one year from now
@@anyalaASMR only if it leads to something worse, which if it does, then the year is worth the truth
I think the last thing we want is a leftist debate bro weighing in on this.
It may pop up on his new H Burgerguy channel for shorter and lower effort content. I'd like to see how he feels about this~
25:49 social worker here who has had to participate in creating a full family assessment. There is literally NO way of knowing which family member reported what piece of information, unless that information is directly attributed to an individual. If the assessment worker just wrote "X person was kicked out of the house," it doesn't mean that every person interviewed for the family assessment explicitly endorsed that statement. Also, the assessor is doing their best to gather and synthesize a TON of information from a myriad of sources. It cannot be assumed that Sue "openly admitted" anything based on that premise.
Timmy really thought he ate with the McDonald's anecdote.
So he thinks Sue isn’t sorry enough? Put her in jail, but definitely not her husband because the father has no part. This guy needs to investigate his own misogyny.
You need to check your use of the word misogyny and use it in More appropriate places
His only defense is “uhh…my opinion” but the “objective” reality he implies to had used in his video is nowhere to be seen. showing edited “evidence” intentionally skipping quotes and acussing people of being a narcissist. I don’t think he will ever take down the video bc he only cares about money not integrity
debates without a moderator are a complete waist of time, it always devolves into petty bickering
I love how this Timmy thinks he's taking a W when asking specific questions about Dylan and Eric, when the focal point of the conversation isn't even on them. Timmy's video is about the integrity Susan Kleboid. It's not about the killers; it's not about their idols. Big L.
This is so frustrating to watch, he's just refusing to admit that he lied.
Wow i literally just finished watching your video and subscribing this is perfect timing 😭
Saaaammme
I turned my notifications on just for this, let’s go!
Edit: When he brings up Miranda Sings 💀💀
SAME LMAO
30:57 So infuriating how he asks three questions and cuts you off on all of them with the “correct” answer before you can even answer. So it looks like he was Correcting you even though you were clearly on track
Miorby, fantastic work here.
I think you came out as the victor in this.
I think neither of us look particularly good in this. I was desperate to hold him to a point and not let him weasel out (which was a negative attitude to take going into a discussion, and I need to do better) and Timmy was desperate to discredit me for not knowing enough and to lay out his well-rehearsed spin.
I failed to get any of my points across, and he refused to take accountability. This conversation didn't move anything forward. But I said I'd upload the video regardless, I'm all about accountability - even if I'm the one who messed it up. Thank you for the kind words though, I appreciate it!
@@miorby He talked about how it's better that you just had this debate in person, but honestly this is why back-and-forth debates are always better than these spectacles. There's a reason academics have done that about far more impactful topics for years
@miorby you were correct it makes sense you were frustrated because he literally didn't let you talk about something ((the other book that had the farward)) that showed a similar structure. But he got mad when you didn't want to talk about Miranda sings when discussing the Ted talk ((TWO DIFFERENT MEDIUMS AND SCALES))
This is clear misinformation about the mother who's child murdered others, it's a good time to be frustrated. He's making accusations and false diagnosis when victims disagree. Seriously think this man is projecting. And yes as someone with an abusive parent who is a narcissist the way hee goes about assessing it is completely stupid. You can't throw that buzz word around, if a narcissistic person doesn't seek help and harms others, the patterns are VERY SPECIFIC and shouldn't be assumed like this
I think Miorby is correct. I also think that the video attempt to debate and expose Timmy was poorly done. If Miorby had remained calmer, and was less interrupting, he could have cornered Timmy. Instead it devolved into a "ya-huh" "nu-huh" back and forth and interrupting.
This sounded like a trump debate, and it could have been a calm dissection and dismembering of Timmy
All that happened was he said she said while they failed to actually talk about the main conflicts.
This wasn't a debate, it was a grumpy argument
the way he kept asking you questions about the journals and the book but would immediately cut you off and prevent you from even answering was so embarrassing on his part
The ginger dude cut him off nearly every sentence what are you on about?
The idea that this boils down to a difference of opinion is more gaslighting from Timmy.
Just like the majority of his original video.
Him ignoring you was the best career move he could have made. I'm so glad your video got to him deeply, cuz I was wondering if it would ever amount to anything and boy did it. I see a soon to be youtube career
Insane that this is the same dude who made those tarkov videos that blew up
AHHHH, so THAT'S where I know the smarmy, know it all, face shoved into the camera delivery from. omege kek
Man, you guys really needed a moderator.
This debate was a compilation of gotcha moments, cutting of earth other, lack of preparation and no satisfying conclusion .
I saw both of these videos with the original first and the rebuttal second, and they both made great sense at the time.
This however has made me uncomfortable and mistrust both of you. You had some great points and great questions, but man you cut him off a lot. The both of you never accepted any of the points despite the quality.
Next time, be prepared please, get a good moderator.
I'm currently in the bit about the divergence counselour and theres so much interesting shit in there, but none in a good way. Timmy keeps arguing that Sue changed her story because the counselour wrote an objective account of what was reported to them and Dylan's comments back up this claim.
And that so many leaps it's probably worth a gold medal. The counselour is not magically objective just because they are a 3rd party or a medical professional, without knowing what was actually said you can't claim that they are. Second the Counselour met with more than Sue, so whatever conclusion they come to doesn't immediately mean Sue admitted to kicking Dylan's brother and she is now changing her story, and finally Dylan's comments (as far as Timmy is willing to bring up at least) are just saying his brother wasn't a part in his life anymore, and you can't make any inferences about Sue kicking him out just from that.
This is kind of the problem with live "debates" like this, it takes almost a whole order of magnitude more of words to pick apart a single "argument", and Timmy ends up benefiting from that just because its unfair to expect Miorby to possess encyclopedic knowledge of the Klebolds and everything surrounding them. He can bring up stuff that's irrelevant cus it wasnt in either video, and call that a win for himself if Miorby isn't able to reply to it. "You don't know Sue's birthday? Wow I guess you arent as much of an expert as you thought :)"
And to Timmy's final point before bailing: Saying that her actions dont match her words makes no fucking sense when the actions you are focusing are just her fucking words.
Like, if your problem is that she isn't admitting guilt, you can't just cut off sections of her ted talk where she admits guilt, and then pretend it's because she is being a hypocrite. That's just flat out dishonesty.
I like how he tried quizzing you on tiny details on the book & if you didn’t remember them exactly we would have to spend 5 minutes of him harping on the fact that he knows you didn’t read it.
It was the scene that was the emotional center of the book.
@@fujifilm5127 what?? He asked him if he remembered if he knew who Dyan & Eric said their childhood hero was in the note book. That clearly doesn’t have shit to do with the arguments at hand he was just looking for the quickest possible own since he was already looking so bad
As a guy who has coached high school debate in the past, this timmy guy is so transparent with what hes trying to do. The "fallacy fallacy", the deflections, the gotchas, all things people try to use when they know theyre wrong and are trying to just eke out a victory. Good on you for controlling the tempo of debate and not letting him get away with all of that bs.
I see it the other way. Miorby falls on the wrong side of things here.
I love how he literally said he doesn't care what Randy Brown said and then immediately was like "but MIRANDASINGS", as if that isn't insanely less relevant to the conversion. Also, it's just super unreasonable for him to assume that because you didn't know one detail about the book that you didn't read it. Miorby, you did a great job, and I'm really glad you brought all this to light because if you didn't, me and a lot of others would still have such a negative opinion of this woman (and a positive one of Timmy)
The messed up thing about this guy’s video is Sue’s message is helpful. You might think you did everything right and raised the perfect kid but you don’t know what they’re thinking. If Timmy wants to be a good parent he needs to be aware of this.
I love how many times Timmy demands to “let him speak” when he doesn’t allow full responses
Not looking good for Timmy. I will never understand people who blame parents for something like this, whether or not they are good or bad parents. It was Dylan’s choice. He had plenty of socialization to form his moral compass. His parents taught him that violence is wrong. Society taught him that violence was wrong. Sue did her absolute best as a parent. She respected her child’s privacy, she allowed him to have freedom while still doing her best to be his moral guide. And to blame her for this? Disgusting.
Being able to experience this in real time is incredible. The fact this video is on your channel and not Timmy’s (even though Timmy’s video got millions of views, so if he wanted more people to see it he could’ve offered to post it on his channel) speaks volumes that he clearly does not want anyone to know his video is full of misinformation, he wants us to think he just “made a mistake” when the WHOLE video is about Sue being a narcissistic, horrible mother for like 39 minutes.
Time to board the toxic gossip train
lol hilarious
So weird how he tries to change the direction of the convo as often as possible.