The original issue on Hostage/Rescue mode is mainly on the map designs, they're bad. The gamemode isn't perfect by any means but the main issue is on the maps themselves. This video showcases the problems with cs_ map designs and some of the core issues with the gamemode itself. It could be reworked and ironned out but seems kinda pointless now, due to how popular Bomb/Defuse is, but seems like a shot worth taking, instead of trying to work on other new gamemodes from scratch, fix what you have, Valve!
The maps in CS map pool are just unbalanced. That's the main issue. But on top of that, there are some insane simple fixes valve should do. Firstly, NO MORE RANDOM SPAWNS. Bomb sites don't change. Why would hostage spawns change?? Then, grenades/ moli should NEVER penalize the CT s money when they dmg tge hostage. It's awful to lose 5k just because you moli the middle on office to clear the area.
Well said. Hostage mode will always be inherently unbalanced due to the swapped economy, but It's not as big of a problem as the maps themselves. One of the trends in most hostage maps is that there is only one rescue zone making it even more T sided which is why i added 2 rescue zones.
Thing is, Valve already reworked the Hostage Mode because back when CSGO was released, the hostage mode was the same as it was in CS1.6 and CS Source where you have to rescue all the hostages as CT to win the round (they follow you, you don't have to carry them) and there were 1 or 2 rescue zones depending of the map.
@@EurovisionESC Random hostage spawns is controlled by the map maker. The hostages can be at fixed points if the map maker wants it that way. That's how it is in Climb when that was in the game.
Minus the Call of Duty is trash/n00by (even tho he's 90% right). I get it: he hate CoD and I respect him. But whenever he has chance to shit on CoD, over and over again, he can gets very annoying... Heck, I remember seeing a video of helping a CS player and literally stop helping him to focus on the ADS problem in CS, because it's the most "CaLl Of DuTy!"... Chill, TheWarOwl! I know your hatred, but sheesh man! Leave CoD behind.
@@Cat_in_The-Box No, I think you're right about me taking it seriously (not all, but many degrees). TheWarOwl's new videos, + his replies on that video's comments made me realize he may not be that person I thought, and (what really worried me) people would take some of his opinion to seriously to the point of hurting some other game's opinion, primarily CoD.
Would be horrible to watch in an esports setting, because there's no single point of conflict to focus on (e.g. football works as a spectator sport because there's only one ball you need to watch to catch all the action). Outside of esports it is fun though, I still love Agency and Apollo was pretty good when it was in the game. Random hostage spawns should definitely go though, some of the random spawns on Office make defending drastically easier.
I like your "switch the hostage with data" idea :D and make it some sort of volatile information, that can't be risked sending over an internet/internal connection because of hacking, so the physical hard drive is the only source of it.
So you actually showed how, with a little experimentation, the hostage mode can become the new competitive meta. Maybe this narrative can be pushed and, like the extinction of Cobblestone, we can greet a new era in the way the game's played.
This reminds me of one of the many custom variations of Dust2 made for CS1.6 because there were maps like cs_dust, cs_dust2, cs_dustjump, cs_dust_sniper, etc. Where in said maps, you can rescue hostages in a Dust environment. OGs will surely remember those.
I have an idea for that alternate Hostage Rescue ideas, call it “Weapons Cache” and the idea is that terrorists aim to capture weapons and securing them at two points and the CT’s try to prevent that. And the weapons they try to capture can vary depending on map/theme. Maybe on one map they try to steal a Heavy machine gun, so one item is a crate with the machine gun parts and the other is a tripod or a bag full of machine gun ammunition. Maybe it’s a mortar and mortar shells, the list goes on. That would by my idea
You don't know how much dopamine I have in my body when I see a new video of you, I want you to know that when you upload a new video you make more people happy than you expect.
2:11 warowl team flashes one guy, then trades him, and arguably teamflashes the other guy. Then lies about the enemies position, and trades his other teammate.
Perhaps an idea you should try is replicating (or just playing) the old VIP gamemode from 1.6. One player on CTs randomly becomes the VIP, and can only buy handguns, while the CTs have to escort them to a designated escape point.
Fun fact: de_Nuke was supposed to be a hostage map, and I think the announcement of the defuse mode let the creater decide to move it to defusal map, and that useless room at 1.6 which is called by the community the fake B site was supposed to be C site, yes and there's a counter strike beta map that has 3 bomb sites.
I've always thought they could eliminate the T-side advantage in Hostage mode by changing it into like a "Kidnap The VIP" mode instead. CTs have to defend two helpless VIPs while the Ts have to attack, tie one VIP up, then carry them to an exit. Maybe instead of defusal kits, the CTs can buy an item that lets them untie the VIPs, then the Ts have to tie them up again to carry them. The idea needs some work to be balanced, but it'd probably still play better than the current Hostage mode. At least carrying the hostages as items in CS:GO is way less retarded than escorting them as NPCs like in the old games.
5:15 Hi there. Programmer and Cyber security enthusiast here. A good reason for them not being able to send it using a phone etc, is that it would take time that they probably don't have to send it. It isn't guaranteed to be a good connection there. And if there was a good connection, they could just jam the connection (make it unusable). Also, sending the info via the internet for example would immediately alert the people they are attacking.
In CS 1.6 there was a mode where one CT was a VIP and the rest had to escort him, while T's was trying to kill him and if they succed they won the round. That would be really fun to see in competetive Counter-Strike.
The thought I've always had for hostage rescue has been, what if the CTs start with 1 hostage? Remove budget additions for interactions. And then, what if it was about the T's stopping them from getting to extract areas, which the CT's have to defend once reached? I'm aware that it's basically just defuse flipped, but idk, could be interesting.
Wouldnt work, it would probably almsot never get to the "extraction" situation. If you only have one spot to defend, naturally, the ENTIRE TEAM will stay at that spot. So it becomes less of a spot take-over, but more of a suicide mission. Another reason as to why two spots are important: Even if one enemy wasn't defending the spot, there are still two spots that could had been attacked. And your team might lack the information which spot had been taken (e.g. they attacked both spots at the same time).
Also the issue with the original hostage mode in 1.6 was the fact that you didn't carry the hostages, they followed you like NPCs. It was a buggy mess.
It'd be fun if they added this as a casual game mode. Imagine doing A exec on mirage while you're CT side, just to rescue a hostage. That definitely would be fun to play.
It worked because the layout of the map an also, cs_dust2 has been a thing for CS1.6 years ago. Clearly the creator for the one for CSGO based his idea off that CS1.6 map.
I would love to see 3kliksphilips Defenestration gameplay! It's in my opinion the best implementation of the hostage gamemode. You pick up hostages early and work to a goal zone
I feel like Assassination could also work well in Dust 2. Make the 2 bombsites the escape zones for the VIP, so that it would be fair for the T side by having the CTs split up. I could imagine the CT side using two entry fraggers and then signalling to the VIP player which escape zone to go to
Makes me think what would have happened if Hostage mode, or Escort mode would have been competitive if they had received years of feedback and improvement. Also @TheWarOwl, how about exploring gamemodes from other games which could fit into CSGO as a competitive mode- like a thought experiment
I actually agree with the data extraction idea as a gamemode, it would be really fun, but then they would have to make it so that there are 2 data extraction points and only 1 is enough to extract, once extracted the T's have to return to spawn to escape with the data gathered
it isn't actually that far-fetched to see a "heist" sort of game mode where the Ts have to steal a famous artifact or valuable item and lug that to a getaway vehicle a la Payday 2 - i'd love to see maps based on an idea like that
![[TF2/RIJIN] self pro-claimed HVH GOD owned in hvh ft Fourteen p3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pjxuf2BtnsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think that there’s an alternate reality where defuse is the irrelevant gamemode and everyone plays hostage competitively
strider????? since when do you play CSGO also can u make csgo content I quit phantom forces
hello
do negev no recoil setup please
what a cursed reality that would be
Soooo 2002?
I stepped away streaming on Twitch, so I'm going to be making MORE videos and experimenting with new ideas, excited for the future!
Waiting for more road to face it lvl 10
FranzJ collab when
CS GO competitive but you make actual original content that is engaging to watch.
Good decision, twitch is awful nowadays anyway.
This is agreeable
1:20 WarOwl: "On round 2 we had an autosniper." T-Dan with a scout: "I'm about to destroy this man's whole career!"
The original issue on Hostage/Rescue mode is mainly on the map designs, they're bad. The gamemode isn't perfect by any means but the main issue is on the maps themselves. This video showcases the problems with cs_ map designs and some of the core issues with the gamemode itself. It could be reworked and ironned out but seems kinda pointless now, due to how popular Bomb/Defuse is, but seems like a shot worth taking, instead of trying to work on other new gamemodes from scratch, fix what you have, Valve!
bring back vip mode and make good maps for it
The maps in CS map pool are just unbalanced. That's the main issue. But on top of that, there are some insane simple fixes valve should do. Firstly, NO MORE RANDOM SPAWNS. Bomb sites don't change. Why would hostage spawns change?? Then, grenades/ moli should NEVER penalize the CT s money when they dmg tge hostage. It's awful to lose 5k just because you moli the middle on office to clear the area.
Well said. Hostage mode will always be inherently unbalanced due to the swapped economy, but It's not as big of a problem as the maps themselves. One of the trends in most hostage maps is that there is only one rescue zone making it even more T sided which is why i added 2 rescue zones.
Thing is, Valve already reworked the Hostage Mode because back when CSGO was released, the hostage mode was the same as it was in CS1.6 and CS Source where you have to rescue all the hostages as CT to win the round (they follow you, you don't have to carry them) and there were 1 or 2 rescue zones depending of the map.
@@EurovisionESC Random hostage spawns is controlled by the map maker. The hostages can be at fixed points if the map maker wants it that way. That's how it is in Climb when that was in the game.
"TDan.. Was a problem" every video with TDan hahahah
To this day, Warowl's videos are some of my favorite to watch. Always a great time.
Minus the Call of Duty is trash/n00by (even tho he's 90% right).
I get it: he hate CoD and I respect him. But whenever he has chance to shit on CoD, over and over again, he can gets very annoying...
Heck, I remember seeing a video of helping a CS player and literally stop helping him to focus on the ADS problem in CS, because it's the most "CaLl Of DuTy!"...
Chill, TheWarOwl! I know your hatred, but sheesh man! Leave CoD behind.
@@gameboyadvancedsp6727 it's just a recurring joke, you're taking it too hard imo
@@Cat_in_The-Box I wish you where right, but sadly no, it's not always a joke.
@@Cat_in_The-Box No, I think you're right about me taking it seriously (not all, but many degrees).
TheWarOwl's new videos, + his replies on that video's comments made me realize he may not be that person I thought, and (what really worried me) people would take some of his opinion to seriously to the point of hurting some other game's opinion, primarily CoD.
I love these simpler ideas that use what the game already has instead of being something outlandish (those are fun too).
that clip at the end made me realize warowl has literally not aged in the several years ive been watching
The ending is hilarious.T_dan has become your sworn enemy.
this is great how gameplay spreads across the whole map and in every direction.
Would be horrible to watch in an esports setting, because there's no single point of conflict to focus on (e.g. football works as a spectator sport because there's only one ball you need to watch to catch all the action). Outside of esports it is fun though, I still love Agency and Apollo was pretty good when it was in the game. Random hostage spawns should definitely go though, some of the random spawns on Office make defending drastically easier.
Simple yet Interesting idea, cant wait to maybe see more maps later on
cs_dust was already a thing in Counter-Strike 1.6 many years ago. The creator of the map shown in this video took inspiration from there.
I like your "switch the hostage with data" idea :D and make it some sort of volatile information, that can't be risked sending over an internet/internal connection because of hacking, so the physical hard drive is the only source of it.
Maybe the item you'd have to capture is a copy of Source 2 and all the defenders could be copies of Gabe Newell trying to force you to open cases
🤣
The items are dlore/rare skins and whoever saves them gets to use next round
So you actually showed how, with a little experimentation, the hostage mode can become the new competitive meta. Maybe this narrative can be pushed and, like the extinction of Cobblestone, we can greet a new era in the way the game's played.
I love how TDan is WarOwl's archnemesis in these videos.
"And there's only one bomb." But what if there were two bombs on a competitive match?
what if you could buy a second one for say 3000
This reminds me of one of the many custom variations of Dust2 made for CS1.6 because there were maps like cs_dust, cs_dust2, cs_dustjump, cs_dust_sniper, etc. Where in said maps, you can rescue hostages in a Dust environment. OGs will surely remember those.
Can't wait for the flying scoutman version of Dust 2 fr
Players: counter strike is a balanced game
warowl: "on round two, we had autosnipers"
2:46 this did not age well
Dang I'm feeling so tired rn that I actually read it as "Dota 2 but it's hostage rescue"
The fact that your walk-key doesn't slow your acceleration when strafing while carrying a hostage messes with my aim everytime.
that's true i've noticed this
I have an idea for that alternate Hostage Rescue ideas, call it “Weapons Cache” and the idea is that terrorists aim to capture weapons and securing them at two points and the CT’s try to prevent that. And the weapons they try to capture can vary depending on map/theme. Maybe on one map they try to steal a Heavy machine gun, so one item is a crate with the machine gun parts and the other is a tripod or a bag full of machine gun ammunition. Maybe it’s a mortar and mortar shells, the list goes on. That would by my idea
we already have a map called cache
@@gold7610 Then maybe call it 'Gunrun', as in Gunrunning. It would fit the theme of the gamemode
Sounds like Payday 2 but hey, not bad at all.
we need this in the regular game for dust 2
Yeah pls volvo remove de_dust2 and replace it with cs_dust2
I would play this more than defusal dust2
When the map is more balanced in the most unbalanced game mode in the game than the way it was intended to be(sorta)
Ngl man that T-Dan double wall bang was one of the sickest thing I've seen in CS
Well, we obviously need a sequel with the reverse: Defuse on a hostage map.
de_office?
Gotta love that forget about freeman remix at the beginning, sick beat
"you can't defuse a hostage, you can try, but he'll probably die"
awww men love your "still have no closure" closure.
1:23 "We had auto snipers" and they had T-Dan
love how TDan became a legend in WarOwl Video
Hostage rescue is basically capture the flag. CTF should be a staple gamemode of every game
Warowl: provides commentary on the gamemode and its quirks
Mek in the killfeed during every single clip: x_x
Man these videos (and warowl in general) are my comfort zone.
Sounds weird to say.
"War owl when he intentionally spreads miss information"
"Yea just like when i say source 2 is going to happen"
It happened.
The video is really good and all but I was just a little surprised to find out T-dan ended up being a problem, who could have guessed =/
recommended you this at some point on twitch, glad you finally did it :)
You don't know how much dopamine I have in my body when I see a new video of you, I want you to know that when you upload a new video you make more people happy than you expect.
Video idea! “CSGO but I can hear the enemies voice chat"
Hostage mode should be the Ts trying to steal the bombs that they use in bomb defusal mode
negev fastly become a meta...
2:11 warowl team flashes one guy,
then trades him,
and arguably teamflashes the other guy.
Then lies about the enemies position,
and trades his other teammate.
Perhaps an idea you should try is replicating (or just playing) the old VIP gamemode from 1.6. One player on CTs randomly becomes the VIP, and can only buy handguns, while the CTs have to escort them to a designated escape point.
"Protect the VIP team!"
I loved VIP mode on the oil rig map!
3:46 the little sound when he que ota that dude
T-Dan is like the quite kid in class who then wrecks everyone in the lan party XD
Warowl, about to win a casual round of CSGO:
"Why do I hear Hard Technology Rock"
Fun fact: de_Nuke was supposed to be a hostage map, and I think the announcement of the defuse mode let the creater decide to move it to defusal map, and that useless room at 1.6 which is called by the community the fake B site was supposed to be C site, yes and there's a counter strike beta map that has 3 bomb sites.
I've always thought they could eliminate the T-side advantage in Hostage mode by changing it into like a "Kidnap The VIP" mode instead. CTs have to defend two helpless VIPs while the Ts have to attack, tie one VIP up, then carry them to an exit. Maybe instead of defusal kits, the CTs can buy an item that lets them untie the VIPs, then the Ts have to tie them up again to carry them. The idea needs some work to be balanced, but it'd probably still play better than the current Hostage mode.
At least carrying the hostages as items in CS:GO is way less retarded than escorting them as NPCs like in the old games.
"T-Dan was a problem"
And he always will be....
"i'm and old man so i know everything" -TheWarOwl
"What if we post the hostage mode into a good map"
Still waiting for that to happen
5:15 Hi there. Programmer and Cyber security enthusiast here.
A good reason for them not being able to send it using a phone etc, is that it would take time that they probably don't have to send it.
It isn't guaranteed to be a good connection there. And if there was a good connection, they could just jam the connection (make it unusable).
Also, sending the info via the internet for example would immediately alert the people they are attacking.
In CS 1.6 there was a mode where one CT was a VIP and the rest had to escort him, while T's was trying to kill him and if they succed they won the round. That would be really fun to see in competetive Counter-Strike.
And this is how Insertion II becomes a comp map.
The thought I've always had for hostage rescue has been, what if the CTs start with 1 hostage? Remove budget additions for interactions.
And then, what if it was about the T's stopping them from getting to extract areas, which the CT's have to defend once reached?
I'm aware that it's basically just defuse flipped, but idk, could be interesting.
Wouldnt work, it would probably almsot never get to the "extraction" situation.
If you only have one spot to defend, naturally, the ENTIRE TEAM will stay at that spot. So it becomes less of a spot take-over, but more of a suicide mission.
Another reason as to why two spots are important: Even if one enemy wasn't defending the spot, there are still two spots that could had been attacked. And your team might lack the information which spot had been taken (e.g. they attacked both spots at the same time).
CSGO but it’s me signing my wife’s divorce papers.
Bro warowl the ideas you have are AMAZING
Also the issue with the original hostage mode in 1.6 was the fact that you didn't carry the hostages, they followed you like NPCs. It was a buggy mess.
CSGO had Hostage NPCs that followed you when it was released, it was reworked to what we have today later on.
"why doesnt he send the data from his phone" cuz cs is set in like 2001 duh
I've playing hostage mode the last few days, and it was a lot of fun.
So watching this made me want to play it also on other maps.
Keep the content up man!
you're back ! always so happy to see a notification
It'd be fun if they added this as a casual game mode. Imagine doing A exec on mirage while you're CT side, just to rescue a hostage. That definitely would be fun to play.
Similar concept: There is a de_office map in the workshop, that is (in my opinion) fun to play. As a one off at least
Now I want to see cs_office as Defusal map
Maybe for your hypothetical mode, they could be stealing a briefcase full of money or a bomb to plant?
Hostage rescue on Dust 2 looks like it worked really well. I wonder what other defuse maps might work.
It worked because the layout of the map an also, cs_dust2 has been a thing for CS1.6 years ago. Clearly the creator for the one for CSGO based his idea off that CS1.6 map.
"Greetings I the warowbl greets you!"
Mr owl, good day
Imagine this: Bomb only plantable by Terrorists but can be carried by a CT
You may defuse the hostage but he may die.
Warowl 2022
i think what makes it great is that the hostages are much further apart than the regular cs maps
5:17 thats easy. He doesnt send it with his phone because he knows the goverment spies his phone. 😛
Hostage should be like a Bomb plant. - one hostage being placed by one side and the other side trying to find him.
that bowie knife looks so good
Every warowl video: "T Dan was a problem"
Hi, I love your modded videos ❤
WarOwl notifications are so blessing
I would love to see 3kliksphilips Defenestration gameplay! It's in my opinion the best implementation of the hostage gamemode. You pick up hostages early and work to a goal zone
This needs more attention
Ah yes.
Can we have Office as a defuse map?
The WarOwl is back in the land of RUclips, Finally!!
Yerrrrrrrrrrr
I feel like Assassination could also work well in Dust 2. Make the 2 bombsites the escape zones for the VIP, so that it would be fair for the T side by having the CTs split up. I could imagine the CT side using two entry fraggers and then signalling to the VIP player which escape zone to go to
Makes me think what would have happened if Hostage mode, or Escort mode would have been competitive if they had received years of feedback and improvement. Also @TheWarOwl, how about exploring gamemodes from other games which could fit into CSGO as a competitive mode- like a thought experiment
The classic Bepis Man clip
Oh man, now you HAVE to do de_office. I think defusal on office would be interesting, lol
5:15 Alert. The enemy has taken our intelligence
3:43 "If CTs do stop one of the hostages being rescued, the game doesn't end".
hmmmmmmmmmmm
CS:GO VIP?
5:22 had me choking HAHAHA
Cops vs robbers mode where CT defend while T’s take a duffel bag of money/contraband back to one of two escape truck no more hostages
They could call the gamemode "heist" and make it about stealing a variety of different items. Sounds like a fun idea!
Ahhh the old times of Counter-Strike when defuse maps weren"t a thing. Fuck i"m old
5:26 ah yes, the true warowl special.
Damn you'll do anything other than Solo Queue to Global Elite
I actually agree with the data extraction idea as a gamemode, it would be really fun, but then they would have to make it so that there are 2 data extraction points and only 1 is enough to extract, once extracted the T's have to return to spawn to escape with the data gathered
Great content as always!
i REALLY love CS and CSCZ VIP Mode - so much fun ;)
One would come to think that hostage mode could actually work and be a lot of fun if the economy was slightly tweaked and better maps were made…!
3:30 So hear me out. Two bombs.
"TDan was a problem" what the fuck were those shotssss
it isn't actually that far-fetched to see a "heist" sort of game mode where the Ts have to steal a famous artifact or valuable item and lug that to a getaway vehicle a la Payday 2 - i'd love to see maps based on an idea like that
5:38
Never seen a WarOwl play.
Except for this time, and it'll be the only ever time.