It was beautiful. I saw him, our lord and savior jesus christ. His hair was flowing like a river and his eyes were like the sun. He had wings with gems inlaid upon them, and a flaming cloak. At length he spoke to me, and whispered "Ape, I don't think that was a micro dose"
Sometimes a church will use the term "non-denominational" to mean that they cast a wide net to attract new members. It is in no way a designation of not belonging to a "kind" of christianity. They are all *some* kind of denomination. Non-Denominational is just a marketing meme like Fat Free, Low Calorie or Plant Based.
I was going to post this. A better word for it might be a "Mixed denomination" church, or an "unrestricted doctrinal" church. If you are a new in town methodist and your options are Mary Street Catholic church, St John's Baptist or New Life Church (a non denominational) you are likely to think that the New Lifers will be more welcoming of your own not quite aligned beliefs.
I’m not sure your marketing buzzword comparison works when comparing it to food products marketed as “fat free”, “low calorie”, or “plant based”. In those examples the product actually is fat free, plant based, or a low calorie option. As for non-denominational, as Matt pointed out, they often times are NOT what they market themselves as.
@whygodisscience is Jesus himself not a conflicted subject? I’m sure some do try to go middle of the road Jesus, but as Matt pointed out, a fair amount have connections to other denominations that they simply attempt to hide from the public in an attempt to gain favor with a public who might feel “turned off” by affiliation with any specific denomination.
Forty years ago I had a friend who wanted to write a book about the varieties of protestant religions. Sadly he never wrote it, because we had a blockbuster title picked out. The Joy of Sects
I'm familiar with that title!! If I recall correctly, it appears as a book title, in the book directory of Booty Island, in one of the Monkey Island games. Of course, I might be mis-remembering and it might be from a different game, or from a different medium altogether. Hells, it could be the name of a side-quest in the 2nd Baldurs Gate game...
I grew up in a Mennonite church, and right around the time I was turning 18 and leaving that church, they changed the name of it to a generic name. The direct, stated reason for the change was that the “Mennonite” label was scaring off potential members who might think they were Amish-adjacent old-fashioned stuffy types instead of the hip, cool, fun Christians they wanted to portray themselves as. It’s exactly what you’re saying, Matt. Marketing. The change was controversial, but the only people against it were the older members, many of whom ended up leaving. But even for years before that there wasn’t much that was identifiably Mennonite about the church, except for some of the older women wearing heads coverings, as well as a general huffiness about things like dancing, using words like “heck” and “darn,” etc.
I’ve felt for a long time that the number of denominations is a very underrated argument against the notion of God and the Bible. Thank you for this video.
I think that "denomination count" is primarily a proxy argument against inerrancy / inspiration. So many varying interpretations cast doubt on the perfection of the source material.
@@tach5884 I'd think that "popularity" would be a weak argument... Whereas, "denomination count / inerrancy" would be a pretty good argument, based on source material. Just to poke at it a bit, you could go further down "denomination count / inerrancy" into 1 Corinthians 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion". If there is to be a catholic (little c, universal) church; the source material would make that ... a little easier. I spent far too much time deep diving dead languages in search of answers.
@@landsgevaer Personally, I'm past the desire for interpretation or defense. While I'm glad to discuss slavery with you, it would be in a non-Biblical context. I'm no longer interested in what the Bible has to say on topics of morality, as it is so often deficient in those regards.
I have personal experience with a denominational split that seems unnecessary now. When I was a teenager, I followed a girl whose family was instrumental in founding a Presbyterian-split church, a spinoff from a large "downtown" church. I don't know what doctrines were in dispute, but it was enough to create another church of the same denomination about 5 miles away, with all the financial headaches and substantial legal costs associated with it. I don't know what happened, but in the 60 years since, it no longer exists.
Matt landed in the end on the answer I always assumed: they think it sounds cool. A *lot* of language the religious use comes down to that, in my opinion.
Religion is always about money, and how to scam it our of the idiots. As religious belief dies out, the denominations are going to have to reconcile their differences and reunite, or not be able to keep the grift going. It's already happening very publicly in the UK.
This is a good discussion. I know a person who doesn't know what "non denominational" means and thinks it's a specific type of church with certain beliefs... literally no sense of what a denomination even is. You get straight to the point with it and describe the origins and relations between "non-"denominations.
I attended a bricks and mortar church in the 1990s and was actually ordained by that church in 2002. It's called Pebble Hill Interfaith Church. When i was in classes for ordination, I would sometimes mention that I was going to be a non-denominational minister and was often caught off by that term indicating to the listener that I was still a 'christian' minister... but no... Pebble Hill is truly interfaith as a community (I am not promoting it, just describing) with people from every faith that are open to the concepts of any faith belief. The schooling for ordination was 2 years part-time with year one covering world religions and year two covering topics for ministers. In year one we had a reconstructionist rabbi teach us about Judaism, an ex-catholic priest about Christianity, an atheist regarding Humanism, a professor on West African religions, we attended an Ashram to discuss Hinduism as well as Buddhism, etc... It was my time in that 2 year program that resolved my atheism for me, so in fact I have been an atheist now for 22 years this December.
That’s very interesting. Sounds like a nice place that truly welcomes all. I wonder how they reconcile inconceivable differences between their faiths. Was it just a shoulder shrug “that’s nice”?
Being exposed to numerous religions when I was a child didn't make me an atheist at the time, but it did make it harder for the indoctrination of Christianity to stick as powerfully as it could have. I just kept remembering but there is other gods and other believers how could it just be this one particular story ??? That thought was a good friend to me .
As an atheist I have no more interest in denominations than I have in people who dispute the colour of fairies' wings. The issue begins and ends with supernatural belief.
The difference between fairies and God is pretty clear. I haven’t seen any atheist making countless videos discussing what type of wings fairies have or their color.
@@donepearceI understand your point about the nature of delusion. However, the distinction between fairies and God is significant because of the impact these beliefs have on society. While fairies are generally seen as harmless myths, belief in God often influences laws, ethics, and personal decisions. That’s why the nature of the delusion matters-because its consequences are far-reaching.
A Presup named Light Before The Tunnel stunned me when I used the denomination argument against God’s existence. When I argued there are so many denominations, he replied by saying "there are 1000s of different particular non-theistic worldviews that different atheists believe. Does this entail they're all false? It would, if you're going to remain consistent with your argument about denominations" I honestly didn't know how to reply to that. But I did accuse him of stuff to derail and change the topic which was effective. That's always a good thing to do in scenarios like that because if they DO defend themselves from the accusation, then the derailment is complete. The topic has been changed and everyone forgets what was just in contention. If they do NOT take the bait and defend themselves, I then convince the audience that the lack of a defense is justification that the accusation is true. And I equate that with victory in the debate. Either way they respond, it's a win-win situation in the eyes of the audience. I recommend it.
@@Simoneswansong theism and atheism are equivalent... one has a burden of proof that hasn't been met, one is the default. Additional consistent beliefs are irrelevant.
@SansDeity Well we weren't talking about "theism" and "atheism," we were talking about worldviews (something everyone has, whether it's theistic or non-theistic)
@SansDeity Are you saying that all the thousands of different non-theistic worldviews don't have a burden of proof? So basically they're all the default position?
Matt, these are so great! Thankyou! I am trying to catch up enough to actually support you! Unfortunately, damn months are way bigger than my checks.😢 I do let ads play, hope that helps a bit. 👍🏼🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌
I affirm that my particular non-theistic worldview is true. What's my rational justification for this? I don't have one, entailing that I'm an irrational person by definition. But let's be real here, this isn't really about being rational. We don't know that the way everything works is entirely logical. Secular Humanism, in particular, is a favorite position of mine because it allows for reframing literally anything as "true." This comes in handy when people give rational arguments showing why what I'm saying is contradictory / false. I simply reinterpet it through my particular non-theistic worldview and Secular Humanism allows me to frame whatever I subjectively like as if it's actually true. This really does come in handy and provides a lot of freedom. Thanks Matt, keep it up!
In John 17:20-21, Jesus (who is also God) prayed to God (who is also Jesus) that all his followers would hold the same belief and that would serve as proof of the overall truth of Jesus/God. That must have been an AWKWARD reunion in Heaven: "Hey me, why didn't I answer my prayer to myself?!?"
And it seems the presupposed jebus hero fantasy man didn't even heard about ad populum logical fallacy. Definitely wasn't the sharpest guy in his herd. If existed, at all. 😂
Matt, I want to thank you for helping me shed my belief in God through your appearances on AXP/The Line. It’s been a long process over the last three years, but I believe I’ve reached the end of my journey with your show. You often treat people with disrespect whenever they disagree with your beliefs, you have anger management issues and I think you should retire. 20 years of hearing the same bullshit can take its toll. Thanks again man!
Could be so many non-denominational, so they don't have to share loot with a church hierarchy. A person says, "You can follow Matt into hell". Atheist America (2015) - Atheist vs Christian Scene (8/8) | Movieclips
2:00 So far as I can tell, there are about 2.4 billion denominations. Every believer has their own particular beliefs (taking religious censuses at face value).
There’s a YT channel called Ready to Harvest. They do tons of videos on the history, and the tenets of various Christian denominations, often comparing two groups. It’s pretty useful, although they never provide any commentary on the details.
As a child I was forced to repeat the Nicene (Apostles) Creed everyday for fifteen years. When I finally began to examine my beliefs many years later I discovered I did not believe a word of it. A 76 year old atheist.
The SBC was explicitly formed to be a Baptist denomination opposed to civil rights though they ultimately dropped this doctrine. My old preacher used to rail against how “liberalism” had taken over the SBC and I finally learned what he really meant.
Yep, that's what I'd say. Denominations are all about you are going to hate. The key to having the same denominations is to hate the same people. Why are all these Methodist churches splitting off? Because United Methodist decreed that it's ok to have gay people. That's a step too far, so this church is going to split. As far as I can tell, most of the splits are based on not hating the right people.
I went to a non-denominational church as a kid, but quit after a couple years. Later, when studying comparative religion and Christian denominations, I discovered everything taught and practiced in my old church was indistinguishable from the SBC. I speculated ND churches do this in opposition to answering to any denominational oversight, but that’s what the IFB is already for.
I still think it’d be funny to see the fallout from every denominational word removed from a community’s churches and temples. That said, religion is just politics by another name and ceremony. As such, it is safe to assume those who peddle it are sincere and/or lying.
I grew up the son of an Assemblies of God pastor... in the 1990's **something** happened and a bunch of Assemblies of God chuches (including ours) started just saying they were Non-Denominational -- not sure what happened, but I guess it AoG was starting to get a bad reputation... but as far as I could tell, no theological differences emerged. So i just always assume that when i see a non-denom church, it's just an evangelical Pentecostal church that is too afraid to say so.
Actually there is such thing as a non-denominational Christianity that exists and its this, ``I`m not convinced of any of this stuff until someone can find a way to demonstrate the truth of one over the other`` Hah, great job explaining all this Matt!
I'm of the tentative opinion that there are literally as many versions of Christianity as there are people who claim to be Christian. Which is why no matter how small the in group is reduced to, someone will still be left out, until there is only one person in the group.
It would be appreciated if all the Christians could agree between themselves before they tell me how to behave. It's only one "book", how hard can it be? Thanks ❤
Exactly the same with martial arts clubs. We believe broadly in karate or MMA or jujitsu or judo, but there can be a few important tactical differences. Ultimately, a lot of it is ego.
I've noticed this in my small town in Florida. Most of the "Non-denominational" churches, at least where I'm from, tend to lean towards evangelical pentecostal. Most of them ,that I know of, were formed from people leaving some of the AOG churches around here.
Not just one god, but one book. and not a fiction book, where people are encouraged to have different interpretations. The Bible is presented to the believer as a recipe book: follow the instructions in this book and you will receive the end result promised. I was going to elaborate on the end result promised, but many denominations don't even agree on that. Atonement? Heaven? A good life here? as with so many religious things, it depends on who you ask. And it seems a recipe which can be interpreted in a thousand wildly different ways with a thousand wildly different results is about as useful as no recipe at all.
Speaking of Assembly of God churches: my tiny hometown had a prominent AoG church. They had a church bus. It was the First Assembly of God. I always laughed when I would see their abbreviation on the front of the bus: FA of G. Whoops.
So how is one saved? How to become able to enter heaven? If anyone tells you that there is a simple defined way to know, this video shows that it is as clear as mud. If a loving God truly wanted to be sure you know with certainty, the path you must take, he should have fired the Holy Spirit and hired a good technical writer.
The people from Nepal I used to work with were VERY much like this, "nondenominational" but really Pentecostals. They tried telling me atoms were an atheist lie.
Non denominational christians dont know what irony is. Just like if i form a group of people and i call our group "we are not a group" it is undeniably still a group, calling your denomination "non denominational" is still a denomination, so why choose a label that contradicts itself?
The number of different religions and different denominations of Christianity was a substantial part of what led me to atheism. I reasoned that if one church really was in contact with the divine, and all others were not, which one is the correct one should be completely obvious. Since it's not at all clear that any one of them is closer to the divine than any other, I concluded that it was more likely than not God didn't exist. Some sort of deistic or pantheistic God might exist, but not the sort of God that intervenes in our lives or cares what we do.
I started my career as a Christian in the Air Force. I learned real fast how much hate each of the groups have for each other. It should have been enough to leave the religion at that time, but it took ten years of nonsense to garner the strength and leave.
As I understand it, the Original Church, if such a thing exists, is the Coptic Orthodox Church, in Egypt. If I recall correctly, it was established in 80 AD and was supposedly founded by one of the apostles. When you compare that with Catholicism, I would think that the Catholics would need to admit defeat and to stop pretending that their Church is the original anything...
Great video. Thois whole denomination thing to me is a massive blow to Chritianity and especially the scripture "god is not the author of confusion". You sure god? One small thing i want to say in response to you bringing up "libertarian". In my experience MANY people who self descibe as some sort of libertarian has NOTHING to do with the Libertarian party. Me included. It is strange how so many have that as their go to. Not sure if you do Matt as you know many left libertarians so you probably get it.
Not an atheist, however I can definitely agree about the non denominational stuff being marketing. Changing language and labels doesn’t change your practices or beliefs. Cults like the ICOC love to say they are non denominational.
11:27 yeah, and they are ALL bible only versions. And it was the CATHOLIC church that gave the world the canonised Bible...it was Catholic Bishops at The Council of Carthage in 397 AD. It was a synodal decision that finalized the New Testament books and reaffirmed the Old Testament as the LXX. The Council also decreed that only the 27 New Testament books should be read in churches. Protestants had to protest what came before. Thank Martin Luther circa 1517 and the printing press circa 1430's.
Just a reminder that your channel might be shadow banned or being heavily obscured. I tried to search you by name and only after 30 or so videos did one of your videos show up. no mention of your channel name in sight.
I think the "non-denominational" label means they don't care what you believe, they just want your donations. But what bothers me is preachers I've heard of who change denominations for a job. It's almost like what they believe doesn't matter.
Thanks for this interesting video. It touches on one thing needed to convince me of the existence of any god(s). I think I would need to see a growing consensus among experts (theologians) on the nature of divinity and god(s), and a reduction in the number of, and differences between, denominations and religions. Of course I would need to be able to understand (as a layperson) and accept the methodology and basis (evidence) of that growing consensus. I don't see any such consensus, methodology, or evidence.
Non-denominational churches are another step towards secular society in my opinion as well. They focus much less on the doctrinal interpretations that divide and more on community.
I've actually thought about this a lot. Here's an idea: it is impossible to 1. found an idea and communicate it correctly, 100%, to others, and 2. have others understand and follow it 100%, and 3. maintain this over years, decades, centuries. Just look at the US constitution. Times have changed and so necessarily, our interpretation and execution of these ideas have changed. In religious beliefs it's much worse because there's no one correct interpretation. It consists entirely of interpretations, opinions and ideas about something written down incompletely, translated incorrectly, and remembered incorrectly.
*The Bible : **_Gods Big Book Of Multiple Choice Answers_** ;* As evidenced by thousands of versions/denominations of Christianity, that disagree on the interpretation, of almost everything in the Bible.
And let us not forget those who say they don't believe in organized religion. Yet they believe in god. Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell. Hey... righteous man. With the recording of a song they in fact started their own religion!
My old dad said, if you want to make a buck, sell religion. There is a sucker born every minute. He always wanted to sell pieces of the "true cross". The reason he didn't was, in his heart, he couldn't take advantage of the gullible. But there isn't a priest or pastor who would let a sucker pass by.
I've long believed that if you took all the "pieces of the 'true cross'" that have been promoted, and actually assembled them, you'd end up with a cross as tall as the Empire State Building and as wide as several city blocks.
@SansDeity People in 17th century did not know about iPhone and never talked about it because it didn’t exist. If god does not exist, how could you know him and talk about him?
Yes, for example, Superman exists! It just exists in our imagination as an idea rather than physically because type of existence differs from smth to other. So, existence doesn’t have to be physical. Is Superman the creator of the universe? No, because it didn’t exist previously and we made it exist 👍🏻 @@FoursWithin
@@CS_Just_a_nickname There are clear distinguishing traits for things that exist only in the imagination vs things that exist objectively in the outside world. It isn't "God" that exists in the imagination, but instead 100s of millions of different versions of Gods that exist in the imagination of 100s millions of different people. When the word/concept "exists" is used the typical notion is that it manifests in the objective outside world. The other version of existing in the imagination (besides small children perhaps) is maybe used by a select few such writers, psychologists, inventors... to describe ideas which they fully understand do not manifest outside of the imagination. Your use description is very rare . So while your point may be technically true its not relevant to the actuality of how this word is socially perceived and used. Making it a moot point of irrelevance. And I think you know that.
I am not saying the creator exists in our imagination neither in the physical world. I am just demonstrating that your counter example to my argument supports it rather than falsifies it. The fact that the creator doesn’t exist in the physical world doesn’t mean the creator doesn’t have a nonphysical existence because existence is not limited to the physical world as there are other types of existence that are nonphysical such as existence in our imagination. Unless you have no more counter examples to the nonphysical existence of the creator I proved by my argument, we shouldn’t start a new point of discussion such as why are other creators fake ( e.g. exist only in imagination ) and my nonphysical creator is real although all of them exist? Do you have any other counter example that disproves my argument of the nonphysical existence of the creator? @@FoursWithin
@CS_Just_a_nickname The existence in an imagination still relies on the physical world though. Imagination exists because brains exist. Without the physical world there are no people to have imagination. So being entirely dependent on the physical world as it's source it's not actually a different type of existence as much as it's a different semantic use of the word existence. Out of time and outside space equals no time and no space. Which is the same as not happening and nowhere.
You would think that if people truly did have these supernatural experiences and personal relationships with the divine things wouldn't be this split up. Gets ya thinking.
"God is not the author of confusion." This is one of the few statements in the Abrahamic texts. That which does not exist cannot author anything. Gods, religions and confusion are all manmade.
It is a funny thing. I believe that there are people who imagine that they are christians but hard to find 1 single common thing... Yet they want Atheist to have some commonality they can judge us about. Any critiques of christians is just wasted time... even there are multiple """kind""" of bibles...
Matt, my inner testimony is telling me that I’m trans and I have the Holy Spirit inside of me. How do I go about determining which one of those inner testimonies is correct?
@user-u9g8m Hmmmm, okay. What is the cultural context of the mustard seed? Could they have used any small object in the parable or is there something specific about the mustard seed?
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
It was beautiful. I saw him, our lord and savior jesus christ. His hair was flowing like a river and his eyes were like the sun. He had wings with gems inlaid upon them, and a flaming cloak. At length he spoke to me, and whispered "Ape, I don't think that was a micro dose"
🤣
😵💫 Amen 🙏🏻
There is a theory that the Book of Revelation was written by someone suffering from ergot poisoning!
Brilliant 🤣❤️
😮 😂 🥰
Sometimes a church will use the term "non-denominational" to mean that they cast a wide net to attract new members. It is in no way a designation of not belonging to a "kind" of christianity. They are all *some* kind of denomination. Non-Denominational is just a marketing meme like Fat Free, Low Calorie or Plant Based.
I was going to post this. A better word for it might be a "Mixed denomination" church, or an "unrestricted doctrinal" church.
If you are a new in town methodist and your options are Mary Street Catholic church, St John's Baptist or New Life Church (a non denominational) you are likely to think that the New Lifers will be more welcoming of your own not quite aligned beliefs.
I’m not sure your marketing buzzword comparison works when comparing it to food products marketed as “fat free”, “low calorie”, or “plant based”. In those examples the product actually is fat free, plant based, or a low calorie option. As for non-denominational, as Matt pointed out, they often times are NOT what they market themselves as.
@@jakobmorningstar I think some are genuine non denominational ones thou. They just preach Jesus and don’t touch the conflicted subjects.
@whygodisscience is Jesus himself not a conflicted subject? I’m sure some do try to go middle of the road Jesus, but as Matt pointed out, a fair amount have connections to other denominations that they simply attempt to hide from the public in an attempt to gain favor with a public who might feel “turned off” by affiliation with any specific denomination.
Forty years ago I had a friend who wanted to write a book about the varieties of protestant religions. Sadly he never wrote it, because we had a blockbuster title picked out.
The Joy of Sects
6 likes , weak crowd
I'm familiar with that title!!
If I recall correctly, it appears as a book title, in the book directory of Booty Island, in one of the Monkey Island games.
Of course, I might be mis-remembering and it might be from a different game, or from a different medium altogether. Hells, it could be the name of a side-quest in the 2nd Baldurs Gate game...
I grew up in a Mennonite church, and right around the time I was turning 18 and leaving that church, they changed the name of it to a generic name. The direct, stated reason for the change was that the “Mennonite” label was scaring off potential members who might think they were Amish-adjacent old-fashioned stuffy types instead of the hip, cool, fun Christians they wanted to portray themselves as. It’s exactly what you’re saying, Matt. Marketing.
The change was controversial, but the only people against it were the older members, many of whom ended up leaving. But even for years before that there wasn’t much that was identifiably Mennonite about the church, except for some of the older women wearing heads coverings, as well as a general huffiness about things like dancing, using words like “heck” and “darn,” etc.
I’ve felt for a long time that the number of denominations is a very underrated argument against the notion of God and the Bible. Thank you for this video.
I think that "denomination count" is primarily a proxy argument against inerrancy / inspiration. So many varying interpretations cast doubt on the perfection of the source material.
@@perilousrange It's a quick (if not strong) counter for the argument from popularity at least.
@@tach5884 I'd think that "popularity" would be a weak argument... Whereas, "denomination count / inerrancy" would be a pretty good argument, based on source material. Just to poke at it a bit, you could go further down "denomination count / inerrancy" into 1 Corinthians 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion".
If there is to be a catholic (little c, universal) church; the source material would make that ... a little easier.
I spent far too much time deep diving dead languages in search of answers.
@@perilousrange So what is your interpretation? On slavery for instance? You are just advocating for yet one other interpretation.
@@landsgevaer Personally, I'm past the desire for interpretation or defense. While I'm glad to discuss slavery with you, it would be in a non-Biblical context. I'm no longer interested in what the Bible has to say on topics of morality, as it is so often deficient in those regards.
I have personal experience with a denominational split that seems unnecessary now. When I was a teenager, I followed a girl whose family was instrumental in founding a Presbyterian-split church, a spinoff from a large "downtown" church. I don't know what doctrines were in dispute, but it was enough to create another church of the same denomination about 5 miles away, with all the financial headaches and substantial legal costs associated with it. I don't know what happened, but in the 60 years since, it no longer exists.
Matt landed in the end on the answer I always assumed: they think it sounds cool. A *lot* of language the religious use comes down to that, in my opinion.
I'd bet it's about money. Probably if a church joins a denomination, it has to send a good chunk of its income up the chain of command.
Yup.
Religion is always about money, and how to scam it our of the idiots.
As religious belief dies out, the denominations are going to have to reconcile their differences and reunite, or not be able to keep the grift going.
It's already happening very publicly in the UK.
This is a good discussion. I know a person who doesn't know what "non denominational" means and thinks it's a specific type of church with certain beliefs... literally no sense of what a denomination even is. You get straight to the point with it and describe the origins and relations between "non-"denominations.
I attended a bricks and mortar church in the 1990s and was actually ordained by that church in 2002. It's called Pebble Hill Interfaith Church. When i was in classes for ordination, I would sometimes mention that I was going to be a non-denominational minister and was often caught off by that term indicating to the listener that I was still a 'christian' minister... but no... Pebble Hill is truly interfaith as a community (I am not promoting it, just describing) with people from every faith that are open to the concepts of any faith belief. The schooling for ordination was 2 years part-time with year one covering world religions and year two covering topics for ministers. In year one we had a reconstructionist rabbi teach us about Judaism, an ex-catholic priest about Christianity, an atheist regarding Humanism, a professor on West African religions, we attended an Ashram to discuss Hinduism as well as Buddhism, etc... It was my time in that 2 year program that resolved my atheism for me, so in fact I have been an atheist now for 22 years this December.
That’s very interesting. Sounds like a nice place that truly welcomes all.
I wonder how they reconcile inconceivable differences between their faiths. Was it just a shoulder shrug “that’s nice”?
Isn't that called 'ecomenical'?
Being exposed to numerous religions when I was a child didn't make me an atheist at the time, but it did make it harder for the indoctrination of Christianity to stick as powerfully as it could have.
I just kept remembering but there is other gods and other believers how could it just be this one particular story ???
That thought was a good friend to me .
As an atheist I have no more interest in denominations than I have in people who dispute the colour of fairies' wings. The issue begins and ends with supernatural belief.
The difference between fairies and God is pretty clear. I haven’t seen any atheist making countless videos discussing what type of wings fairies have or their color.
Yes indeed.
_"Magical thinking",_ opens the door to all kinds of fantastic beliefs,
where the implausible, somehow becomes the _most likely._
@@Lil-Famin I think maybe you missed my point. The nature of a delusion is not as important as the simple fact of the delusion.
@@donepearceI understand your point about the nature of delusion. However, the distinction between fairies and God is significant because of the impact these beliefs have on society. While fairies are generally seen as harmless myths, belief in God often influences laws, ethics, and personal decisions. That’s why the nature of the delusion matters-because its consequences are far-reaching.
@@Lil-Famin Haven't seen anyone try to take away peoples' rights based on a belief in fairies.
It has a label, it is a denomination. The non-denominational denomination.
A Presup named Light Before The Tunnel stunned me when I used the denomination argument against God’s existence. When I argued there are so many denominations, he replied by saying "there are 1000s of different particular non-theistic worldviews that different atheists believe. Does this entail they're all false? It would, if you're going to remain consistent with your argument about denominations"
I honestly didn't know how to reply to that. But I did accuse him of stuff to derail and change the topic which was effective. That's always a good thing to do in scenarios like that because if they DO defend themselves from the accusation, then the derailment is complete. The topic has been changed and everyone forgets what was just in contention.
If they do NOT take the bait and defend themselves, I then convince the audience that the lack of a defense is justification that the accusation is true. And I equate that with victory in the debate.
Either way they respond, it's a win-win situation in the eyes of the audience. I recommend it.
@@Simoneswansong theism and atheism are equivalent... one has a burden of proof that hasn't been met, one is the default.
Additional consistent beliefs are irrelevant.
@SansDeity Well we weren't talking about "theism" and "atheism," we were talking about worldviews (something everyone has, whether it's theistic or non-theistic)
@SansDeity Are you saying that all the thousands of different non-theistic worldviews don't have a burden of proof? So basically they're all the default position?
@@SansDeity idk, tbh I think the accusation response is better. Because we will never run out of accusations to use! Haha and it always succeeds
Matt, these are so great! Thankyou! I am trying to catch up enough to actually support you! Unfortunately, damn months are way bigger than my checks.😢 I do let ads play, hope that helps a bit. 👍🏼🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌
I hate when there’s month left at the end of the Munnies
Thank you Matt!
I affirm that my particular non-theistic worldview is true. What's my rational justification for this? I don't have one, entailing that I'm an irrational person by definition. But let's be real here, this isn't really about being rational. We don't know that the way everything works is entirely logical.
Secular Humanism, in particular, is a favorite position of mine because it allows for reframing literally anything as "true." This comes in handy when people give rational arguments showing why what I'm saying is contradictory / false. I simply reinterpet it through my particular non-theistic worldview and Secular Humanism allows me to frame whatever I subjectively like as if it's actually true.
This really does come in handy and provides a lot of freedom. Thanks Matt, keep it up!
Nice video Matt. If you could make videos on examining the claims of the catholic church, I'd be the first to watch. Thanks.
In John 17:20-21, Jesus (who is also God) prayed to God (who is also Jesus) that all his followers would hold the same belief and that would serve as proof of the overall truth of Jesus/God.
That must have been an AWKWARD reunion in Heaven: "Hey me, why didn't I answer my prayer to myself?!?"
The joys of DID. 🤦♀️
And it seems the presupposed jebus hero fantasy man didn't even heard about ad populum logical fallacy. Definitely wasn't the sharpest guy in his herd. If existed, at all. 😂
Matt, I want to thank you for helping me shed my belief in God through your appearances on AXP/The Line. It’s been a long process over the last three years, but I believe I’ve reached the end of my journey with your show. You often treat people with disrespect whenever they disagree with your beliefs, you have anger management issues and I think you should retire. 20 years of hearing the same bullshit can take its toll. Thanks again man!
Could be so many non-denominational, so they don't have to share loot with a church hierarchy.
A person says, "You can follow Matt into hell". Atheist America (2015) - Atheist vs Christian Scene (8/8) | Movieclips
Thanks Matt.
2:00 So far as I can tell, there are about 2.4 billion denominations. Every believer has their own particular beliefs (taking religious censuses at face value).
There’s a YT channel called Ready to Harvest. They do tons of videos on the history, and the tenets of various Christian denominations, often comparing two groups. It’s pretty useful, although they never provide any commentary on the details.
As a child I was forced to repeat the Nicene (Apostles) Creed everyday for fifteen years. When I finally began to examine my beliefs many years later I discovered I did not believe a word of it.
A 76 year old atheist.
The SBC was explicitly formed to be a Baptist denomination opposed to civil rights though they ultimately dropped this doctrine. My old preacher used to rail against how “liberalism” had taken over the SBC and I finally learned what he really meant.
Yep, that's what I'd say.
Denominations are all about you are going to hate. The key to having the same denominations is to hate the same people.
Why are all these Methodist churches splitting off? Because United Methodist decreed that it's ok to have gay people. That's a step too far, so this church is going to split.
As far as I can tell, most of the splits are based on not hating the right people.
The original split between Northern Baptist and Southern Baptist was over slavery.
@@brynpookc1127 I'm reading this for the second time today and after a little cursory research looks like you're right. I stand corrected.
I went to a non-denominational church as a kid, but quit after a couple years. Later, when studying comparative religion and Christian denominations, I discovered everything taught and practiced in my old church was indistinguishable from the SBC.
I speculated ND churches do this in opposition to answering to any denominational oversight, but that’s what the IFB is already for.
I still think it’d be funny to see the fallout from every denominational word removed from a community’s churches and temples.
That said, religion is just politics by another name and ceremony. As such, it is safe to assume those who peddle it are sincere and/or lying.
I grew up the son of an Assemblies of God pastor... in the 1990's **something** happened and a bunch of Assemblies of God chuches (including ours) started just saying they were Non-Denominational -- not sure what happened, but I guess it AoG was starting to get a bad reputation... but as far as I could tell, no theological differences emerged. So i just always assume that when i see a non-denom church, it's just an evangelical Pentecostal church that is too afraid to say so.
Actually there is such thing as a non-denominational Christianity that exists and its this, ``I`m not convinced of any of this stuff until someone can find a way to demonstrate the truth of one over the other`` Hah, great job explaining all this Matt!
Austin Stone Church!! You should have tracked down “Mark” for a guest appearance for this one. lol. 🤪😝
I'm of the tentative opinion that there are literally as many versions of Christianity as there are people who claim to be Christian. Which is why no matter how small the in group is reduced to, someone will still be left out, until there is only one person in the group.
Atheists do have their own separate denominations. Just ask Dillahunty about Silverman.
It would be appreciated if all the Christians could agree between themselves before they tell me how to behave.
It's only one "book", how hard can it be?
Thanks ❤
Exactly the same with martial arts clubs. We believe broadly in karate or MMA or jujitsu or judo, but there can be a few important tactical differences. Ultimately, a lot of it is ego.
I'm told by a Christian family member that they are not even in a religion, but rather they are in a way of lifestyle
I've noticed this in my small town in Florida. Most of the "Non-denominational" churches, at least where I'm from, tend to lean towards evangelical pentecostal. Most of them ,that I know of, were formed from people leaving some of the AOG churches around here.
Shoutout Useful Charts for amazing videos on denominations and religious history.
Ready to Harvest here on RUclips explored non-denominational churches too for another set of examples.
Not just one god, but one book. and not a fiction book, where people are encouraged to have different interpretations. The Bible is presented to the believer as a recipe book: follow the instructions in this book and you will receive the end result promised. I was going to elaborate on the end result promised, but many denominations don't even agree on that. Atonement? Heaven? A good life here? as with so many religious things, it depends on who you ask. And it seems a recipe which can be interpreted in a thousand wildly different ways with a thousand wildly different results is about as useful as no recipe at all.
so people added another lie to the bunch of lies they already told, and expect to be believed?!
you got us in the first half😂
Everybody's talk'n bout the new faith, baby, but it's still Christianity to me.
Speaking of Assembly of God churches: my tiny hometown had a prominent AoG church. They had a church bus. It was the First Assembly of God.
I always laughed when I would see their abbreviation on the front of the bus: FA of G.
Whoops.
So how is one saved? How to become able to enter heaven? If anyone tells you that there is a simple defined way to know, this video shows that it is as clear as mud.
If a loving God truly wanted to be sure you know with certainty, the path you must take, he should have fired the Holy Spirit and hired a good technical writer.
Thanks Matt. ❤
The people from Nepal I used to work with were VERY much like this, "nondenominational" but really Pentecostals. They tried telling me atoms were an atheist lie.
Atoms make up everything therefore atoms are made up therefore god checkmate atheists
Denying that atoms are real is a new one for me. What’s the reasoning behind it?
@@littleredpony6868 sorry it's been almost a decade and I don't think I got a satisfying answer at the time
Does anyone have that joke from Carlin about the two Christian that met on the street?
I'm sure you mean Emo Philips' "Die, heretic!" joke.
I remember the long-ago caller from the Austin Stone Church, who turned out to be a phony.
Non denominational christians dont know what irony is. Just like if i form a group of people and i call our group "we are not a group" it is undeniably still a group, calling your denomination "non denominational" is still a denomination, so why choose a label that contradicts itself?
Mark from Stone church thanks you for remembering him
Matt, will you cosplay Santa on Christmas?
@@diegobrando6996 no
Ah yes, Austin Stone. Brings me back to the OG TAE and caller Mark.
This is a historical question matt like the Protestant reformation and great schism
baptists are a diverse lot. one of my favorite books, 'when religion becomes evil', is written by a baptist minister.
The number of different religions and different denominations of Christianity was a substantial part of what led me to atheism. I reasoned that if one church really was in contact with the divine, and all others were not, which one is the correct one should be completely obvious. Since it's not at all clear that any one of them is closer to the divine than any other, I concluded that it was more likely than not God didn't exist. Some sort of deistic or pantheistic God might exist, but not the sort of God that intervenes in our lives or cares what we do.
I started my career as a Christian in the Air Force. I learned real fast how much hate each of the groups have for each other. It should have been enough to leave the religion at that time, but it took ten years of nonsense to garner the strength and leave.
As I understand it, the Original Church, if such a thing exists, is the Coptic Orthodox Church, in Egypt. If I recall correctly, it was established in 80 AD and was supposedly founded by one of the apostles.
When you compare that with Catholicism, I would think that the Catholics would need to admit defeat and to stop pretending that their Church is the original anything...
Great video. Thois whole denomination thing to me is a massive blow to Chritianity and especially the scripture "god is not the author of confusion". You sure god? One small thing i want to say in response to you bringing up "libertarian". In my experience MANY people who self descibe as some sort of libertarian has NOTHING to do with the Libertarian party. Me included. It is strange how so many have that as their go to. Not sure if you do Matt as you know many left libertarians so you probably get it.
Not an atheist, however I can definitely agree about the non denominational stuff being marketing. Changing language and labels doesn’t change your practices or beliefs. Cults like the ICOC love to say they are non denominational.
11:27 yeah, and they are ALL bible only versions. And it was the CATHOLIC church that gave the world the canonised Bible...it was Catholic Bishops at The Council of Carthage in 397 AD. It was a synodal decision that finalized the New Testament books and reaffirmed the Old Testament as the LXX. The Council also decreed that only the 27 New Testament books should be read in churches. Protestants had to protest what came before. Thank Martin Luther circa 1517 and the printing press circa 1430's.
Just posting here that the movie Heretic is superb and kind of an atheist's dream. HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!!!!!
would you be reachable for discussion? or email? I would love to discuss the utility of the universe with you
Just a reminder that your channel might be shadow banned or being heavily obscured. I tried to search you by name and only after 30 or so videos did one of your videos show up. no mention of your channel name in sight.
So many denominations, and yet each one of them is supposed to speak in the name of all Christians...
I’m sooooo confused…
I think the "non-denominational" label means they don't care what you believe, they just want your donations. But what bothers me is preachers I've heard of who change denominations for a job. It's almost like what they believe doesn't matter.
So the All Donations Accepted church of the divine grift.
Thanks for this interesting video. It touches on one thing needed to convince me of the existence of any god(s). I think I would need to see a growing consensus among experts (theologians) on the nature of divinity and god(s), and a reduction in the number of, and differences between, denominations and religions. Of course I would need to be able to understand (as a layperson) and accept the methodology and basis (evidence) of that growing consensus. I don't see any such consensus, methodology, or evidence.
@@johngriffiths2637 "argument from inconsistent revelation"
@@SansDeity thanks 😎
Non-denominational churches are another step towards secular society in my opinion as well. They focus much less on the doctrinal interpretations that divide and more on community.
I've actually thought about this a lot. Here's an idea: it is impossible to
1. found an idea and communicate it correctly, 100%, to others, and
2. have others understand and follow it 100%, and
3. maintain this over years, decades, centuries.
Just look at the US constitution. Times have changed and so necessarily, our interpretation and execution of these ideas have changed. In religious beliefs it's much worse because there's no one correct interpretation. It consists entirely of interpretations, opinions and ideas about something written down incompletely, translated incorrectly, and remembered incorrectly.
Denomination r largely come down to individual traditions
Nice shirt
I'm not like other moms. I'm the cool mom.
*The Bible : **_Gods Big Book Of Multiple Choice Answers_** ;*
As evidenced by thousands of versions/denominations of Christianity,
that disagree on the interpretation, of almost everything in the Bible.
Jeff Dee on Atheist Experience came up with that title. Always enjoyed that!
That’s not a problem if you’re Eastern Orthodox.
What happened to _End Boss_ ? I only ever saw one show...the first.
@@PamiShoodrani haven't been any viable applicants since then
And let us not forget those who say they don't believe in organized religion. Yet they believe in god. Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell. Hey... righteous man. With the recording of a song they in fact started their own religion!
Abrahamic faiths should just stop bothering humanity with their bullshit, period.
Humanity has definitely been bothered. To the point of mind infection overload.
I've been to St Charles Mo
My old dad said, if you want to make a buck, sell religion. There is a sucker born every minute. He always wanted to sell pieces of the "true cross". The reason he didn't was, in his heart, he couldn't take advantage of the gullible. But there isn't a priest or pastor who would let a sucker pass by.
I've long believed that if you took all the "pieces of the 'true cross'" that have been promoted, and actually assembled them, you'd end up with a cross as tall as the Empire State Building and as wide as several city blocks.
This list on it's own should be a huge red flag that it's absolute nonsense.
*_Gods Word_** ?*
As written, spoken & interpreted by the men that "claim" to speak for God.
_(God did not write the Bible)_
Love you Matt, you are awsome, but you need a long red hat, with a white dot on it =P
Kinds ... you know ... like a dog is a kind of wolf and human is a kind of great ape ... oh wait!
They keep wanting to be exclusive. God's real favourites.
Each denomination is the correct one and the other denominations are incorrect otherwise they would all be a single denomination.
Listen to jiddu Krishnamurthy give your opinion about it you might like
Xbox or PS
Swedenborgianism? "The Borg? Sounds Swedish."
I didn't realize the libertarians were advocating cannibalism.
Hey, if it's roadkill, it's not hurting anyone....
@SansDeity
People in 17th century did not know about iPhone and never talked about it because it didn’t exist. If god does not exist, how could you know him and talk about him?
How can we talk about leprechauns or Darth Vader or Neo or the Hobbit .
Oh man they must be real then ?
Yes, for example, Superman exists! It just exists in our imagination as an idea rather than physically because type of existence differs from smth to other. So, existence doesn’t have to be physical.
Is Superman the creator of the universe? No, because it didn’t exist previously and we made it exist 👍🏻
@@FoursWithin
@@CS_Just_a_nickname
There are clear distinguishing traits
for things that exist only in the
imagination vs things that exist
objectively in the outside world.
It isn't "God" that exists in the
imagination, but instead 100s of
millions of different versions of Gods
that exist in the imagination of 100s
millions of different people.
When the word/concept "exists" is used the typical notion is that it manifests in the objective outside world. The other version of existing in the imagination (besides small children perhaps) is maybe used by a select few such writers, psychologists, inventors... to describe ideas which they fully understand do not manifest outside of the imagination.
Your use description is very rare .
So while your point may be technically true its not relevant to the actuality of how this word is socially perceived and used. Making it a moot point of irrelevance.
And I think you know that.
I am not saying the creator exists in our imagination neither in the physical world. I am just demonstrating that your counter example to my argument supports it rather than falsifies it. The fact that the creator doesn’t exist in the physical world doesn’t mean the creator doesn’t have a nonphysical existence because existence is not limited to the physical world as there are other types of existence that are nonphysical such as existence in our imagination.
Unless you have no more counter examples to the nonphysical existence of the creator I proved by my argument, we shouldn’t start a new point of discussion such as why are other creators fake ( e.g. exist only in imagination ) and my nonphysical creator is real although all of them exist?
Do you have any other counter example that disproves my argument of the nonphysical existence of the creator?
@@FoursWithin
@CS_Just_a_nickname
The existence in an imagination still relies on the physical world though. Imagination exists because brains exist. Without the physical world there are no people to have imagination. So being entirely dependent on the physical world as it's source it's not actually a different type of existence as much as it's a different semantic use of the word existence.
Out of time and outside space equals no time and no space. Which is the same as not happening and nowhere.
If only there was just one religion.
You would think that if people truly did have these supernatural experiences and personal relationships with the divine things wouldn't be this split up. Gets ya thinking.
Still one too many.
Statler and waldorf from Muppet show
I intend that as a compliment by comparison
"God is not the author of confusion." This is one of the few statements in the Abrahamic texts. That which does not exist cannot author anything. Gods, religions and confusion are all manmade.
I'm not gonna accept anything matt says unless he can prove anything he says to me in my house himself.
@Spirasame
So Matt's at a Gods level for you, cool.
It is a funny thing. I believe that there are people who imagine that they are christians but hard to find 1 single common thing... Yet they want Atheist to have some commonality they can judge us about.
Any critiques of christians is just wasted time... even there are multiple """kind""" of bibles...
There are so many denominations of Christianity, it's possible that two or more denominations have arisen that share the exact same doctrine 😂
Protestants are the only ones that have denominations. They’re a 16th century heresy and therefore can’t hold claim to being a church.
Hrm, disappointed there wasn't a mention of Emo Philips' DIE, HERETIC! joke. ruclips.net/video/l3fAcxcxoZ8/видео.html for the unenlightened
How do you except jesus at the age 4 or 5? At that age you cant even accept “GO TO YOUR ROOM” or no “ICE CREAM” 😂🔍👀
Matt, my inner testimony is telling me that I’m trans and I have the Holy Spirit inside of me. How do I go about determining which one of those inner testimonies is correct?
@JGreez Then, of course, there are all of the voices from people around you telling you that you have an antisocial personality.
@@chris-io9zt That’s not very inclusive of you.
@@JGreez In what way is it not inclusive? Religious fascists can only be fools and/or sociopaths
@user-u9g8m Hmmmm, okay. Why did the writer use a mustard seed instead of a grain of sand?
@user-u9g8m Hmmmm, okay. What is the cultural context of the mustard seed? Could they have used any small object in the parable or is there something specific about the mustard seed?
Men.....all the way down. Yup. And It really was men, they excluded the women from writing
How many denominations are there in the LGBTQ2 IA*+%
As many as they want.
@@EnglishMike How many do Christians get?
One more for each and every whining theist complaining about it, to support their imaginary friends
@@Ikonicre_Moonshield What’s more imaginary? My friend or the idea that a man can become a woman?
@JGreez Are you accepting of same sex marriage?