Dumb and Dumber the storywriters kinda forgot about the fact that Bronn is the worst candidate for the job. Or they kinda forgot that Tyrion is a genius and would have never ever chosen this man to become Master of Coin.
To be honest they had to give him something so Bronn doesn’t kill them and the reach was probably the best they could give a prosperous land that will make anyone rich so maybe he learns how to do business or maybe just cutthroat business and does something
I beg to differ because Tyrions description is all that’s needed to manage money in truth. And Bronn seems like the last person to give money away. So in fact he might actually be a good choice
@@Mandalorianof501st How the fuck is he a good choice? He is already the richest (and the most powerful) lord and by making him master of coin he can abuse his power for even more money.
@@HolyknightVader999 He simply shifted the money he took as dept to the crown instead of his own dept and since no one was as smart as him, they never bothered to check the finances.
Well, it wasn't a ponzi sheme per se but yes, book Littlefinger is the stereotype of a crooked Wall Street financier. He spent years defrauding the crown.
Very early in the books it's shown that everybody of the small country knew the crown was bankrupt but Robert doesn't care. Littlefinger openly tells he's been borrowing money from everybody.
Dumb and Dumber the storywriters kinda forgot about the fact that Bronn is the worst candidate for the job. Or they kinda forgot that Tyrion is a genius and would have never ever chosen this man to become Master of Coin.
@@Zargulio Dont get me wrong, it was stupid. But, there is some logic to it. Remember, Mace was on the council, and in the show he is a bumbling idiot. And now, Bronn is the most powerful lord in the seven... six... lets be realistic and say four kingdoms. Either way, giving bronn the seat (and the power) makes sense in that it would encourage him to open his coffers more. He is already as powerful as he is ever gonna be, so giving him the title allows everyone to keep an eye on him. Of course, i think it would be giving the dim witted duo too much credit to say that was their reasoning behind it.
@@forever_golfer1981 The current master of coin is not the son of Tywin Lannister. Its Ser Bronn "Whats borrowing" of the blackwater. Or, well, suppose its Lord of high garden now, but you get the point.
You don’t understand,even in modern day politicians often appoint their family members/friends in position of power so that they can gain monopoly over people, aside from managing of the actual position which is done by technocrats who work under politicians
Ah yes, the Iron Bank. Another great big influencer of the world worthy and plot relevant enough to be a part of the finale, but firmly pushed to the side. If the series was more multi-arc-oriented the Bank would've absolutely gotten one.
they even lampshaded it when the Bank sent thier army..but didn't bring the much-vaunted war elephants. not that it would have helped. but one thinks they would have at least remembered to send some ort of envoy from the small empire Dany conquored when they were discussing what to do after she died. I mean, Dorne and everyone else showed up....
The kingdom was supposed to inherit a good deal of debts from Queen Cersei who borrowed heavily from the Iron Bank to pay for the Golden Company and a fleet of ships. Bronn who knew nothing about high finance and loans, became the Master of Coin and presumably had to deal with the Iron Bank which always had its due. The writings just made no sense.
Honestly, the Bank collapsing because Dany cooked the Golden Company would have had huge impacts on the setting and would have made the Dragon Queen deeply unpopular in many places
To be fair, I'm surprised he didn't make some comment along the lines of "Besides, he'd never give up the leverage on the crown, there's always the unlikely case that Joffery could grow a spine or gods forbid, if our king were to have an unfortunate accident."
@@markgresch9944 Tyrion didn't need to say it everyone knows why Tywin funded Robert because as you pointed out that gives Tywin plenty of leverage and power because the Crown owes him millions
"A Lannister always pay their debts" More like "Dynasties blossom and decay, Empires rise and fall, Dragons burn the land and be slain and the bank will always win."
I never realized how smart of a move this was by little finger. A little bit of debt by the iron bank is gonna be difficult to pay back. But for how long he's been master of coin, the crown may be looking at paying the iron bank ten times what kings landing is worth
And if his goal is to make chaos to increase his own power, having the iron bank fund people looking to destabilize westerosi politics makes a perfect opening for him to exploit
I love these little details in the early seasons... Bronn is obviously bored out of his mind, but notice how he's always picking up and looking at stuff when he's with Tyrion. Obviously, he's doing this to annoy Tyrion, but it also shows that he's curious. His experience isn't only due to how much he's travelled or how many people he's killed but also to his curiosity and how he pays attention. And this doesn't have any major bearing on the plot in either books or show, he's just a curious man looking out for himself and trying to climb the social ladder. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty but he also "likes to keep his hands clean" → hence his ambition to own a castle and enjoy the fruits of his work.
I think the decision to making Bronn master of coin could have been a brilliant decision had the writers put more effort into exploring the idea. Bronn is a mercenary who managed to navigate the cutthroat politics of Kings Landing and has served under one of the smartest individuals in Westeros. It would have been great if we see Bronn apply some of the knowledge he gained by showing us how he managed to acquire the title of a lord or maybe figure out a way to pay the debts owed to the Iron Bank before they come in to seize what's left of the ruined kingdom.
@@patrickmcginty3234the crown's debts were already settled when Bronn became master of coin Cersei paid the Iron Bank back with gold she took from the Tyrells so she made Bronn's job easier because that debt is sorted, the crown's debt to him is sorted since he had Highgarden. I think Bronn took it all in when Tyrion was master of coin and Bronn came from nothing to now being a wealthy lord I think he'll learn to keep his finances in check lol
@@wickedwitchoftheeast88the debt to the Faith was settled when the faith militant were reformed, apart from smaller creditors the only major debt holder left is House Lannister.
@@SpottedHares and they're flat broke their mines ran dry years ago although I'm sure the crowns debt to the Lannisters is probably 3 times the size of a third world debt so that being paid would sort them out lol
@@atomic_wait Ohh you mean the seat of one of the probably 10 most powerful houses and ruling seat of the Reach that somehow fell in a day. And with an Army that somehow marched across the reach past plenty of castles that are vassals of HighGarden, And still managed to have the element of surprise. The Rock also fell in like a day. I swear for castles that are almost impossible to take, they do it quite easily. And its not like they have the cheat code of Dragon like Aegon did. I think the show just had no time for like 90% of what they tried to do in the final season. Night King or Cersi should have been one season and vice versa. Would it have saved the show. No but it would have made some improvements.
It’s not like the iron bank can send the golden company after them. Bronn’s technically right in his thinking though. You have to think, this isn’t modern society where police show up if you don’t pay your taxes, this is a medieval society, where the most that the iron bank could do would be send assassins or mercenaries. If the iron bank hires out sellswords then they have to pay them, costing them more money, and then this sellswords have to actually attack westeros, which isn’t going to end well for them since bran will know they’re every move
@@glowhoo9226 Uhh... no. Bronn would be a total dumbass if he did that. First, sending an assassin after him would cost money sure, but the idea is to send a message to OTHER people who owe them money not to fuck with them on their debts and that alone would make it well worth the cost. Second, Bronn is an up-jumped sellsword made lord of the most prestigious castle in the Reach that's highly contested by a number of houses with better blood claims for it... all the Iron Bank has to do to get him is back any lord who would agree to repay his debts (the bank's usual modus operandi). Third, on the issue of the Golden Company and Bran, the Iron Bank doesn't even need to go to actual war to screw Westeros over. All they need to do is call in every single loan owed by every lord and merchant in Westeros, cease lending to Westeros completely while they're trying to rebuild from a decade of a very devastating war, and threaten to do the same to any merchant in Essos who tries to trade with Westeros. There's a reason why even the likes of Tywin Lannister feared the Iron Bank.
I was thinking the same thing. The IB may start funding the enemies of its debtor, but what if the enemy also decides not to pay it back? My point is, it doesn't really seem to have any real means of enforcing the repayment. The whole thing hinges on people honouring their promises. Well... sometimes they just don't. Anyway the only theory I can come up with is that they have close connections with the Faceless Men. I can't imagine where assasins would put all the money they get for the commissions anyway. I can very well imagine that while worshipping the God of Death they hand over the money they receive to the bank. In return the bank might sometimes commission them.
@@Alastor999 you could also add that the Iron Bank probably has it's own enforcers (Someone has to defend the vaults). It's debt collectors are also probably escorted by guards. It might not even need to hire mercenaries. To also add another point towards mercenaries. For all we know, some of the biggest mercenary companies might have been financed by the Bank at some point, and they likely still have debts that they are willing to get rid of. The Bank wouldn't even need to pay these groups, just offer to either reduce or remove the debts.
Just the way how Tyrions speaks here as opposed to season 5 and onward speaks values to the huge differences in writing. I miss the days when Game of Thrones was awesome.
Carl Scruggs "And a temple is comprised of stones. One stone crumbles and another takes it's place and the temple holds its form for a thousand years or more. That's what Game of Thrones is: a temple-like-show. We all live in it's pop-cultural shadow and almost none of us know it. You can't run from its addictive episodes, you can't cheat them with illegal downloads, you can't sway them with book changing excuses. If you owe HBO money to watch its magnificence and don't want to crumble in spoilers yourself, you pay your subscription back." Lol.
For reference in the books in calculated that the crown would need to be spending over 33,000 gold every month to reach the debt. The tourney for Hand of the king was around 100,000 gold and was the biggest event since Harrne Hall( an event so massive it pit the Lannister to shame). None of this factors in how much money the cows had before or taxes coming in, the debt is so massive it suspicious on how that much money could even be spent. Spending that much money is just not realistic, hence the idea that Little Finger was borrowing money and embezzling what money the crown did have at the same time. Getting the crown into debt while also securing money should help ever have need of it.
Apparently not. And Bronn... Master of Coin despite not knowing about the Iron Bank of Braavos or how borrowing works. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
It is brilliant! The iron bank will ask for payment, and bron will just respond with "what if I don't?" Then the bank will say "wow never thought of that, guess you can keep it, have a nice day sir Bron of the blackwater and Master of Coin"
@@LisaAnn777 No no, the bank will send an eunuch enforcer. When the enforcer arrives at King's Landing and demands all of the debt to be payed, Bronn will say "yOu HaVE nO cOcK" and then everybody laughs. Being embarassed, the enforcer will reply "I dun wonit" and leave. Back at Braavos he will then tell his banker friends that he couldn't do it and that in order to get the money "We need allies (with cocks)".
In the context of the TV show, if Tywin were to ever forgive the debt owed to him by the Crown, wouldn't that put House Lannister into an immediate and severe financial crisis, since their last working mine ran dry some time ago?
Sounds like the crown, and Tywin are in debt to the Iron Bank. He doesn't so much forgive the debt, but it being his grandson just means they are all in the hole.
Tywin would also never forgive it, because that would be a sign of weakness to many. Effectivly, if you owe money to the Lannisters, befreidn the king, and convince him to forgive it. By standing firm, and not forgiving the debt, this allows him to make people fearful to tread on him. He has ended families, destroyed defectors, and broken armies. If he is not scarred of his grandson, the king, that makes him even more dangerous. Plus, he can hold the threat of demanding payment over time if the families become too distant. As well, when the kingdom starts to recover, and the coffers become more full, Tywin can have money transfered to Lannister debt, ensuring the family is compensated in the end.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had friends in the bank who want greater influence on Westeros, and they got him to borrow from them so that the future kings of Westeros would have to heed what the Iron Bank is saying.
No, the most ironic part is how much Tyrion actually instills the Lannister words in his heart. They still have debts to pay and no way to get it from the people because so many have died in their wars.
Cercei as soon as she hears of their debts to the iron bank when she has become queen regent: "I have the most brilliant idea, fuck them, we ain't paying!"
In the books, Cerseu tells the Iron Bank to go fuck themselves, so the bank makes a deal with Stannis to reinforce him with 20,000 mercenaries from Braavos. In the show, however, Cersei gets the wealth of House Tyrell to pay the debt with the bank on one installment, winning their trust.
HolyknightVader999 Not to mention that she didn't listen to Jaime's warnings either. Every reasonable man and relative of hers was sure that she's gonna bring trouble to the delicate balance her father had built up. Even Jon Snow, the man who knows nothing asked 'Can the Lannisters really be that stupid?' when an agent of the Iron Bank arrived on the wall to parlay with Stannis
Bronn become the new Master of Coin even though he doesn't even know how borrowing money works. And what was his first priority after becoming the Master of Coin? Rebuild the brothels.
Brothels bring in money, more money for the crown means less money needed to borrow from the bank. Bronn is an unintentional genius. Besides, the iron bank can’t really hire anyone too special to take on westeros now that the biggest mercenary company in essos just got crippled by a dragon. And bran would also know if the bank sent assassins.
Excellent source of tax revenue, that. And a good place to reestablish for the sake of an incoming Master of Whispers. So many secrets pass between a grunting man and straddled maid.
The bank, all the way in Braavos, is going to cross the sea, and claim someone’s property? And put it up as collateral? Threatening someone only works if that person is afraid of them. Try telling Bronn you’re going to break his legs
@@glowhoo9226 Bruh... I can see you must have liked DnD's writing. You obviously have no clue about the world GRRM built, but you are interested in simping for the badass Bronn like a misguided teenager. Go watch some dark superhero movies like Equalizer 3. Bronn isn't untouchable just because you'd like him to be, he's not your badass, supercool dude who kicks ass and never loses. That's why I hate DnD. They turned GOT into a generic shitshow for casual viewers such as yourself, whom neither care about realism within the context of the world nor about elaborate, intertwined plots which will encourage the viewer to wonder and guess. It's very similar to how Capcom ruined the Monster Hunter franchise by making it appeal to casuals. I'm very disappointed that the majority of people like to be spoon-fed everything while also desiring to feel badass instead of feeling humbled. It's a lazy and infantile way of entertainment. "Bronn is so cool, he would kick the Iron Bank's ass" Sure.
@@glowhoo9226 The bank of Braavos doesn't give out loans to nobodies like Bronn, but even if they did, they have enough influence to compel the King of Westeros to send his army to enforce their whims.
The idea, Ser Bronn, is that the Crown's standing with the truly great Houses of Westeros is dependent on the Lannisters and Tyrells knowing they receive return on their enormous investment.
Yep. Master of Coin is a royal official in the government of the Seven Kingdoms. The holder is a member of the monarch's small council, the inner cabinet of the realm. The Master of Coin is in charge of the royal treasury, advises the monarch on financial matters, and is responsible for raising money to meet the Crown's needs.
SilentAssassin927 Yes, that very well might have kept him alive. had Rob had the money to buy sellswords for example to bolster his army the Boltons and Frays probably wouldn't of betrayed him. Robb probably could of promises the Iron Bank they could have westeros, all he cares about is The North/Riverlands
Robb didn't fancy sellswords, especially when his enemies can pay whatever he could as well. The North does not produxe much wealth to begin with, amassing coin from his lands' profit would be unlikely.
I'm convinced this is why Bron is an amazing fighter. He's borrowed money from lots of powerful people and never paid it back and they often send people after him.
@@archangel3591Borrowed and stole can offten mena the same thing lol. Joke aside, I find it unlikely. man was a sellsword from youth. All money has has has been earned.
So if they pay the enemies how do they get it back? Do they expect the enemies to pay them both the money from the previous loan plus the amount they owe? If that’s the case Cersei did Dany a favor. When Cersei looses and Dies Dany will have Westeros and be debt free because who needs Iron Bank funds when you have three full grown Dragons.
From what I remember, it comes down to the terms of the loan. The bank takes a huge risk if they loan to both sides during a war, because either way they’re going to lose some money, the only question is how much
Yes that's usually apart of the stipulation. The challengers to the Crown get substantial loans (probably with long term repayment terms) and if they win, they agree to pay back the previous debt plus the new debt. If they lose the Bank loses essentially both debts. It's why the Iron Bank is now so careful about lending out money.
"So if they pay the enemies how do they get it back?" Because "the crown" owes the money, and you're the bearer of the crown. When a prince succeeds his father as king, that doesn't wipe all the debts of the kingdom.
That is indeed the risk banks took in medieval times. Many Italian and French ones went bankrupt cause the nations they lent money to never gave them back
Ladies and gentlemen, our new Master of Coin and owner of the house that makes a majority of the food and has one of the largest armies. Great writing D&D.
I never understood the concept of iron bank, if someone doesn’t pay them back they fund their enemies… and? Will these enemies pay both their debts and the previous ones debts? That doesn’t make any sense
I think by funding the enemy of the indebted, the assumption is that those in debt will lose, and the bank takes the spoils of their loan with interest - as well as having the winners pay back their new loan with interest too. What confuses me is what if that enemy doesn't want to take out a loan. What incentive does the bank offer then? And what if the kingdoms just outright refused to pay back their loans. Bank couldn't do shit, and the loan would have just been a grant. TLDR, banks confuse me
@@Joker-yw9hl People fighting a war will take support from anything a not give a second thought to money landing on their lap with a bit fineprint on it. It might be a mistake but winning is all that matters
I don’t know why people think making Bronn master of coin is a bad idea. He doesn’t borrow money. That’s a good thing. If the only way you can get money is by borrowing, then you are crap with money and will financially ruin the realm
Yes but Littlefinger did that on purpose to weaken the crown. He wasn't shit with money he was shit person. Every country needs to borrow money now and then, Bronn not even knowing the concept is indeed worrying if he's Master of Coin.
That's a very stupid take, sorry but not sorry. If you have no money but need to invest, you take a loan. That's how economies work. Then you either succeed and pay it back with interests or you fail and suffer the consequences.
For a country to have credit it has to establish a debt. I think its been this way for a 1,000 years. So if you have a war and cant afford it you need to borrow to survive.
the Iron bank funds the enemies of those that default in exchange for taking over the previous debt… but what happens if no one is interested in fighting their default debt owner?
To everyone saying Bronn is unqualified to be Master of Coin A) he had five years or so between season three and season eight to learn how it works before he became Master of Coin (and the fact that he's learned how it works is kinda demonstrated in that scene) and B) you know politicians in the real world give unqualified but loyal people positions of power all the time right? Bronn could be the most unqualified person in the world it still doesn't matter. Tyrion owed Bronn a great many favors and a seat on the Small Council was a means of repaying that debt
This scene is years before Season 8, and I think Bronn had practice when he became a lord. The problem is D&D never showed Bronn becoming good at finance. I mean, it is weird to think of how Rollo became a king in the Vikings show, but the showrunners, directors, and writers did well in showing Rollo actually learning the material. A brief scene of Bronn doing financing while talking with Jaime before heading to Dorne would have been sufficient.
You don’t put a family member in charge of an entity that owes you money to forgive the debt. On the contrary you do so to make sure that they prioritize paying you back even over other things that may be more pressing for that entity.
sooooooo, aparently the one waggon that Jaime Lannister sent back to Kings Landing after they looted Highgarden contained tens of millions of gold? Not only is Highgarden not that rich, but im pretty sure they would need a hell of a lot of wagons to transport that amount of gold
"But what if I don't?" "Then you become known as a bad debtor, and nobody else will lend to you, or take your word for things. When Winter comes, nobody will sell you food. People who wish to curry favor with your creditor will steal or seize things you own. Your lord will not give you honors, you will find it hard to make a marriage."
Borrowing is worse than stealing. You're basically taking their money, except there's an IOU on the scene of the crime with your name and address on it.
It would've been funny if Dany conquered Braavos or persuaded them to join her growing Essosi empire. Then she can just walk up to Cersei, demand a payment for what's owed, and then tell her that she can sell the throne to the bank and that will be enough payment for all debts.
And they couldnt I dont know give Bronn the shakedown artist who kbows and understands how to get people to pay for things they need of him a keep or land that entitles him to a payment say something like The Twins a place where people in the North Vale and Riverlands would come into contact with in order to travel by land by way of their bridge.
It's crazy to me how this was posted 10 years ago....and then it's almost like the United States went "We need our own Iron Bank of Braavos." Because in the time it's been since this episode, we've done exactly the same thing. Now what happens when those other countries demand to cash in ?
Part of me wants to go to a Ferrari dealers and act like Bronn here….casually walking around and then when it comes time to sign….”but what if I DONT make the payments on time?” 🤣. (To be clear doubt I will ever afford a Ferrari…I’d buy a house before that
Tyrion kinda forgot that Bronn knows nothing about loans when he made Bronn Master of Coin
Dumb and Dumber the storywriters kinda forgot about the fact that Bronn is the worst candidate for the job. Or they kinda forgot that Tyrion is a genius and would have never ever chosen this man to become Master of Coin.
To be honest they had to give him something so Bronn doesn’t kill them and the reach was probably the best they could give a prosperous land that will make anyone rich so maybe he learns how to do business or maybe just cutthroat business and does something
I think Bronn is a lot more intelligent than he wants people to think he is.
I beg to differ because Tyrions description is all that’s needed to manage money in truth. And Bronn seems like the last person to give money away. So in fact he might actually be a good choice
@@Mandalorianof501st How the fuck is he a good choice? He is already the richest (and the most powerful) lord and by making him master of coin he can abuse his power for even more money.
In the show, Littlefinger borrowed heavily from the Iron bank in order to get funds. In the books, he ran a massive medieval ponzi scheme instead.
In the books, he purposefully got the crown in debt while making himself richer.
@@HolyknightVader999 He simply shifted the money he took as dept to the crown instead of his own dept and since no one was as smart as him, they never bothered to check the finances.
@@vladtheimpaler9577 I Haven't read the books, how did he simply did that?
Well, it wasn't a ponzi sheme per se but yes, book Littlefinger is the stereotype of a crooked Wall Street financier. He spent years defrauding the crown.
Very early in the books it's shown that everybody of the small country knew the crown was bankrupt but Robert doesn't care. Littlefinger openly tells he's been borrowing money from everybody.
Our new Master of Coin everyone. Someone who's never borrowed money before and who isn't clear on the rules.
well apparently when tyrion said
"i thought that i was wise but i wasn't,
i though that i knew what was right but i didn't"
he was actually right
Dumb and Dumber the storywriters kinda forgot about the fact that Bronn
is the worst candidate for the job. Or they kinda forgot that Tyrion is a
genius and would have never ever chosen this man to become Master of
Coin.
@@Zargulio Dont get me wrong, it was stupid. But, there is some logic to it. Remember, Mace was on the council, and in the show he is a bumbling idiot. And now, Bronn is the most powerful lord in the seven... six... lets be realistic and say four kingdoms. Either way, giving bronn the seat (and the power) makes sense in that it would encourage him to open his coffers more. He is already as powerful as he is ever gonna be, so giving him the title allows everyone to keep an eye on him. Of course, i think it would be giving the dim witted duo too much credit to say that was their reasoning behind it.
Chris Doe Well being the son of Tywin Lannister, the richest man in Westeros, would be an excellent qualifier to become Master of Coin.
@@forever_golfer1981 The current master of coin is not the son of Tywin Lannister. Its Ser Bronn "Whats borrowing" of the blackwater. Or, well, suppose its Lord of high garden now, but you get the point.
0:37 ladies and gentlemen, your new master of coin!
Was looking for this comment
Beat me to it.
You don’t understand,even in modern day politicians often appoint their family members/friends in position of power so that they can gain monopoly over people, aside from managing of the actual position which is done by technocrats who work under politicians
Ah yes, the Iron Bank. Another great big influencer of the world worthy and plot relevant enough to be a part of the finale, but firmly pushed to the side. If the series was more multi-arc-oriented the Bank would've absolutely gotten one.
they even lampshaded it when the Bank sent thier army..but didn't bring the much-vaunted war elephants. not that it would have helped. but one thinks they would have at least remembered to send some ort of envoy from the small empire Dany conquored when they were discussing what to do after she died. I mean, Dorne and everyone else showed up....
For how much we meme about GRRM and Aragorn tax policy,ASOIAF is very lacking in the economic side and very unrealistic too.
@@lordanonimmo7699how?
The kingdom was supposed to inherit a good deal of debts from Queen Cersei who borrowed heavily from the Iron Bank to pay for the Golden Company and a fleet of ships. Bronn who knew nothing about high finance and loans, became the Master of Coin and presumably had to deal with the Iron Bank which always had its due. The writings just made no sense.
Honestly, the Bank collapsing because Dany cooked the Golden Company would have had huge impacts on the setting and would have made the Dragon Queen deeply unpopular in many places
Good thing he is not the master of coin. Am I right? Hahahahhaha. Imagine Bronn as the master of coin.
Haha that would be ridiculous, right?
😂😂😂
Good idea. Last thing the realm needs is more debt
@@chef-la-da4199 Or more enemies...which brings"What is I don't give their gold back!" Seems not to be a good sign...
Yeah, fuck this show
I like it how Tyrion says "Forgive a debt? My father?" with such mirth as how merely considering the idea is amusing.
Still easier for him to imagine than his father saying "I love you, son."
To be fair, I'm surprised he didn't make some comment along the lines of "Besides, he'd never give up the leverage on the crown, there's always the unlikely case that Joffery could grow a spine or gods forbid, if our king were to have an unfortunate accident."
@@markgresch9944 Tyrion didn't need to say it everyone knows why Tywin funded Robert because as you pointed out that gives Tywin plenty of leverage and power because the Crown owes him millions
"A Lannister always pay their debts" More like "Dynasties blossom and decay, Empires rise and fall, Dragons burn the land and be slain and the bank will always win."
Unless Dragonriders and Dothraki pillage the bank after cleaving through the bank's hired goons.
@@HolyknightVader999 that would only be the bank losing money
"The house always wins."
@@HolyknightVader999 But the Bank will just hire more mercenaries and if that fails, they’ll pay their attackers off.
@@billcipherproductions1789 Not if thei attackers decide to take the bank itself.
I never realized how smart of a move this was by little finger. A little bit of debt by the iron bank is gonna be difficult to pay back. But for how long he's been master of coin, the crown may be looking at paying the iron bank ten times what kings landing is worth
but his plan was to be king of westeros. so eventually he would have been faced with his own debt, and collapsed. he doomed himself. hes an idiot.
Proceeds to sell kings landing and gives the money to congress-i mean the small council.
“This man became king today.”
And if his goal is to make chaos to increase his own power, having the iron bank fund people looking to destabilize westerosi politics makes a perfect opening for him to exploit
You owe the Iron Bank of Bravos a million, the Iron bank of Bravos owns you. You owe them tens of millions, you own the Iron bank of Bravos.
You mean like the US having $34 trillion in debt?
I love these little details in the early seasons...
Bronn is obviously bored out of his mind, but notice how he's always picking up and looking at stuff when he's with Tyrion. Obviously, he's doing this to annoy Tyrion, but it also shows that he's curious. His experience isn't only due to how much he's travelled or how many people he's killed but also to his curiosity and how he pays attention.
And this doesn't have any major bearing on the plot in either books or show, he's just a curious man looking out for himself and trying to climb the social ladder. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty but he also "likes to keep his hands clean" → hence his ambition to own a castle and enjoy the fruits of his work.
I think the decision to making Bronn master of coin could have been a brilliant decision had the writers put more effort into exploring the idea. Bronn is a mercenary who managed to navigate the cutthroat politics of Kings Landing and has served under one of the smartest individuals in Westeros.
It would have been great if we see Bronn apply some of the knowledge he gained by showing us how he managed to acquire the title of a lord or maybe figure out a way to pay the debts owed to the Iron Bank before they come in to seize what's left of the ruined kingdom.
Very astute observation 🧐
@@patrickmcginty3234the crown's debts were already settled when Bronn became master of coin Cersei paid the Iron Bank back with gold she took from the Tyrells so she made Bronn's job easier because that debt is sorted, the crown's debt to him is sorted since he had Highgarden. I think Bronn took it all in when Tyrion was master of coin and Bronn came from nothing to now being a wealthy lord I think he'll learn to keep his finances in check lol
@@wickedwitchoftheeast88the debt to the Faith was settled when the faith militant were reformed, apart from smaller creditors the only major debt holder left is House Lannister.
@@SpottedHares and they're flat broke their mines ran dry years ago although I'm sure the crowns debt to the Lannisters is probably 3 times the size of a third world debt so that being paid would sort them out lol
D&D: LeTs mAKe BrONn tHe MaSTer oF CoiN
He's lord of the Reach, though! You know, the Reach that had literally all of its gold stolen by... the... Lannisters...
@@atomic_wait Ohh you mean the seat of one of the probably 10 most powerful houses and ruling seat of the Reach that somehow fell in a day. And with an Army that somehow marched across the reach past plenty of castles that are vassals of HighGarden, And still managed to have the element of surprise.
The Rock also fell in like a day. I swear for castles that are almost impossible to take, they do it quite easily. And its not like they have the cheat code of Dragon like Aegon did. I think the show just had no time for like 90% of what they tried to do in the final season. Night King or Cersi should have been one season and vice versa. Would it have saved the show. No but it would have made some improvements.
my back hurts
Having a master of coin that doesn’t borrow money is genius
True. But, at the same time, for an ecomony to properly grow, you need some form of debt. Granted, this is modern economies.
Congratulations Westeros, this is you new master of coins.
Iron Bank: "Ok, time to repay your loans."
Bronn: "But what if I don't?"
Iron Bank: "..."
Yeah the 7 kingdoms are screwed.
It’s not like the iron bank can send the golden company after them. Bronn’s technically right in his thinking though.
You have to think, this isn’t modern society where police show up if you don’t pay your taxes, this is a medieval society, where the most that the iron bank could do would be send assassins or mercenaries. If the iron bank hires out sellswords then they have to pay them, costing them more money, and then this sellswords have to actually attack westeros, which isn’t going to end well for them since bran will know they’re every move
@@glowhoo9226 Uhh... no. Bronn would be a total dumbass if he did that. First, sending an assassin after him would cost money sure, but the idea is to send a message to OTHER people who owe them money not to fuck with them on their debts and that alone would make it well worth the cost.
Second, Bronn is an up-jumped sellsword made lord of the most prestigious castle in the Reach that's highly contested by a number of houses with better blood claims for it... all the Iron Bank has to do to get him is back any lord who would agree to repay his debts (the bank's usual modus operandi).
Third, on the issue of the Golden Company and Bran, the Iron Bank doesn't even need to go to actual war to screw Westeros over. All they need to do is call in every single loan owed by every lord and merchant in Westeros, cease lending to Westeros completely while they're trying to rebuild from a decade of a very devastating war, and threaten to do the same to any merchant in Essos who tries to trade with Westeros. There's a reason why even the likes of Tywin Lannister feared the Iron Bank.
So fucked,they are even worse than when Robert Died
I was thinking the same thing. The IB may start funding the enemies of its debtor, but what if the enemy also decides not to pay it back? My point is, it doesn't really seem to have any real means of enforcing the repayment. The whole thing hinges on people honouring their promises. Well... sometimes they just don't. Anyway the only theory I can come up with is that they have close connections with the Faceless Men. I can't imagine where assasins would put all the money they get for the commissions anyway. I can very well imagine that while worshipping the God of Death they hand over the money they receive to the bank. In return the bank might sometimes commission them.
@@Alastor999 you could also add that the Iron Bank probably has it's own enforcers (Someone has to defend the vaults). It's debt collectors are also probably escorted by guards. It might not even need to hire mercenaries.
To also add another point towards mercenaries. For all we know, some of the biggest mercenary companies might have been financed by the Bank at some point, and they likely still have debts that they are willing to get rid of. The Bank wouldn't even need to pay these groups, just offer to either reduce or remove the debts.
Just the way how Tyrions speaks here as opposed to season 5 and onward speaks values to the huge differences in writing.
I miss the days when Game of Thrones was awesome.
The Iron Bank will have its due
Carl Scruggs "And a temple is comprised of stones. One stone crumbles and another takes it's place and the temple holds its form for a thousand years or more. That's what Game of Thrones is: a temple-like-show. We all live in it's pop-cultural shadow and almost none of us know it. You can't run from its addictive episodes, you can't cheat them with illegal downloads, you can't sway them with book changing excuses. If you owe HBO money to watch its magnificence and don't want to crumble in spoilers yourself, you pay your subscription back."
Lol.
+Lich Coin haha this is very well done!
lol
lol
I did have a debt to my bank once, I would like to thank this scene for helping me get off my arse to pay it
yup, always best to check all your finances and see where the money is going, or a small debt can grow to a large one
For reference in the books in calculated that the crown would need to be spending over 33,000 gold every month to reach the debt. The tourney for Hand of the king was around 100,000 gold and was the biggest event since Harrne Hall( an event so massive it pit the Lannister to shame). None of this factors in how much money the cows had before or taxes coming in, the debt is so massive it suspicious on how that much money could even be spent.
Spending that much money is just not realistic, hence the idea that Little Finger was borrowing money and embezzling what money the crown did have at the same time. Getting the crown into debt while also securing money should help ever have need of it.
Apparently not. And Bronn... Master of Coin despite not knowing about the Iron Bank of Braavos or how borrowing works. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
To be fair, what exactly is the bank going to do? Send some mercenaries? Guess what, bran already knows they’re coming and has prepared for them.
It is brilliant!
The iron bank will ask for payment, and bron will just respond with "what if I don't?"
Then the bank will say "wow never thought of that, guess you can keep it, have a nice day sir Bron of the blackwater and Master of Coin"
@@LisaAnn777 No no, the bank will send an eunuch enforcer. When the enforcer arrives at King's Landing and demands all of the debt to be payed, Bronn will say "yOu HaVE nO cOcK" and then everybody laughs. Being embarassed, the enforcer will reply "I dun wonit" and leave. Back at Braavos he will then tell his banker friends that he couldn't do it and that in order to get the money "We need allies (with cocks)".
Supposedly Littlefinger might have done it on purpose; bankrupting the realm
Ironic that now Bronn is in a situation where he's not getting paid and he can't do anything about it.
And now he is master of coin
"and what if I dont? 😁😁😁"
His pure innocence lolz
In the context of the TV show, if Tywin were to ever forgive the debt owed to him by the Crown, wouldn't that put House Lannister into an immediate and severe financial crisis, since their last working mine ran dry some time ago?
Sounds like the crown, and Tywin are in debt to the Iron Bank. He doesn't so much forgive the debt, but it being his grandson just means they are all in the hole.
Tywin would also never forgive it, because that would be a sign of weakness to many. Effectivly, if you owe money to the Lannisters, befreidn the king, and convince him to forgive it. By standing firm, and not forgiving the debt, this allows him to make people fearful to tread on him. He has ended families, destroyed defectors, and broken armies. If he is not scarred of his grandson, the king, that makes him even more dangerous. Plus, he can hold the threat of demanding payment over time if the families become too distant. As well, when the kingdom starts to recover, and the coffers become more full, Tywin can have money transfered to Lannister debt, ensuring the family is compensated in the end.
"But what if I don't?"
-the future Master of Coin
Given what we know of Littlefinger's heritage from the books, a debt to the Iron Bank of Braavos is ... intriguing...
I wouldn't be surprised if he had friends in the bank who want greater influence on Westeros, and they got him to borrow from them so that the future kings of Westeros would have to heed what the Iron Bank is saying.
@@HolyknightVader999 the iron bank conspiracy
@@stevenirizarry1304 The Braavosi conspiracy.
Most ironic part about this scene: all talk about the Iron Bank is flushed down the drain when Podrick returns
TChops 2019
Well he got laid for free in a brothel, wouldn't you want to learn why exactly
No, the most ironic part is how much Tyrion actually instills the Lannister words in his heart. They still have debts to pay and no way to get it from the people because so many have died in their wars.
This is how you do exposition. You learn about the world while learning about the characters.
"We owe someone named Clay Davis a lot of money".
I'll take any motherfucker money if they give it.
Shiieeeeettt
“He described your expertise on financial matters unparalleled.”
Cercei as soon as she hears of their debts to the iron bank when she has become queen regent: "I have the most brilliant idea, fuck them, we ain't paying!"
Zajin13 huh. This is how people used to see Cersei.
She didn't care about the debts in the books
In the books, Cerseu tells the Iron Bank to go fuck themselves, so the bank makes a deal with Stannis to reinforce him with 20,000 mercenaries from Braavos. In the show, however, Cersei gets the wealth of House Tyrell to pay the debt with the bank on one installment, winning their trust.
HolyknightVader999 Not to mention that she didn't listen to Jaime's warnings either.
Every reasonable man and relative of hers was sure that she's gonna bring trouble to the delicate balance her father had built up.
Even Jon Snow, the man who knows nothing asked 'Can the Lannisters really be that stupid?' when an agent of the Iron Bank arrived on the wall to parlay with Stannis
She gets the church to forgive the 1 million the Crown owes it in exchange for rearming the Faith Militant. And she thought this was a genius move.
I lend you money, you return it....
how such a simple concept can escape so many people in our world......
because that's not how it works in the real world. at least not since 1913
1) People are lazy.
2) People can be forgetful.
3) People can be assholes who refuse to pay loans back.
I give you money, you don't pay back the principal, and via interest, your income becomes my income.
well, it's why lending money for interest is a sin in some religions
What if I be a big boy and not borrow money so I don’t have to piss away my money in repayments
Bronn become the new Master of Coin even though he doesn't even know how borrowing money works. And what was his first priority after becoming the Master of Coin? Rebuild the brothels.
Brothels bring in money, more money for the crown means less money needed to borrow from the bank.
Bronn is an unintentional genius.
Besides, the iron bank can’t really hire anyone too special to take on westeros now that the biggest mercenary company in essos just got crippled by a dragon.
And bran would also know if the bank sent assassins.
@@glowhoo9226 It's funny how often "genius" boils down to, "Now why didn't *I* think of that?"
Excellent source of tax revenue, that. And a good place to reestablish for the sake of an incoming Master of Whispers. So many secrets pass between a grunting man and straddled maid.
Well if you don’t pay it back:
1. The bank takes the property you put up as collateral
2. You get your legs broke.
In a nutshell
The bank, all the way in Braavos, is going to cross the sea, and claim someone’s property? And put it up as collateral?
Threatening someone only works if that person is afraid of them. Try telling Bronn you’re going to break his legs
@@glowhoo9226 this is why you don't lend Bronn money lol.
@@glowhoo9226 Bruh... I can see you must have liked DnD's writing. You obviously have no clue about the world GRRM built, but you are interested in simping for the badass Bronn like a misguided teenager. Go watch some dark superhero movies like Equalizer 3. Bronn isn't untouchable just because you'd like him to be, he's not your badass, supercool dude who kicks ass and never loses. That's why I hate DnD. They turned GOT into a generic shitshow for casual viewers such as yourself, whom neither care about realism within the context of the world nor about elaborate, intertwined plots which will encourage the viewer to wonder and guess. It's very similar to how Capcom ruined the Monster Hunter franchise by making it appeal to casuals. I'm very disappointed that the majority of people like to be spoon-fed everything while also desiring to feel badass instead of feeling humbled. It's a lazy and infantile way of entertainment.
"Bronn is so cool, he would kick the Iron Bank's ass"
Sure.
@@glowhoo9226 The bank of Braavos doesn't give out loans to nobodies like Bronn, but even if they did, they have enough influence to compel the King of Westeros to send his army to enforce their whims.
The idea, Ser Bronn, is that the Crown's standing with the truly great Houses of Westeros is dependent on the Lannisters and Tyrells knowing they receive return on their enormous investment.
From 3 million to tens of millions. That's a lot since the first season.
1. Wars are expensive and 2. LIttlefinger told Eddard how much the debt was. He was probably lying about the true number.
@@tbeller80 That and interest on loans are a bitch
In the first book it's revealed everybody in the small council knows about this.
Wow, Bronn doesn't know how debts work. He would perfect as the Master of Coin!
Is the master of coin an ancient version of an accountant?
Yep. Master of Coin is a royal official in the government of the Seven Kingdoms. The holder is a member of the monarch's small council, the inner cabinet of the realm. The Master of Coin is in charge of the royal treasury, advises the monarch on financial matters, and is responsible for raising money to meet the Crown's needs.
Chief accountant. Our version would be Chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Jake Tryon well not alike minister for finance
It is no wonder Lady Olenna called Tyrion a browbeaten bookkeeper.
treasurer essentially
Yup iron bank of bravvos. And the saying is they always get their due.
1:00 "This is why I make you master of coin!"
The merchant guilds power
This is why I don't lend you money
And this is the new master of coin
It's like the Joker with the IRS
A Lannister always repays, and the Iron Bank always gets paid.
Tyrion's explenations were so clear Bronn became Master of the Coin !
Very useful information for the real day to day life here in our world.
Robb Stark should've sent Wyman Manderly to Braavos to get the support of the Iron Bank.
SilentAssassin927 Yes, that very well might have kept him alive. had Rob had the money to buy sellswords for example to bolster his army the Boltons and Frays probably wouldn't of betrayed him. Robb probably could of promises the Iron Bank they could have westeros, all he cares about is The North/Riverlands
Robb didn't fancy sellswords, especially when his enemies can pay whatever he could as well.
The North does not produxe much wealth to begin with, amassing coin from his lands' profit would be unlikely.
M Bayrak But the Starks will pay that gold back.
Sellswords are not reliable, they will not hesitate to betray you if your enemies are willing to pay them much more than you paid them
I'm convinced this is why Bron is an amazing fighter. He's borrowed money from lots of powerful people and never paid it back and they often send people after him.
But he said that he never borrowed. :'D
@@archangel3591Borrowed and stole can offten mena the same thing lol.
Joke aside, I find it unlikely. man was a sellsword from youth. All money has has has been earned.
As a banker i can confirm, if you dont pay your credit card on time i WILL fund your enemies.
The new Master of Coin...what a fucking joke 🤣
Would I watch an 8 season show called "Adventures of Tyrion the Master of Coin"? Yes. Yes. I. Would.
What if I dont ?
Well then you need to shake hands with the Golden Company.
... understood.
Tens of millions? But Littlefinger said that the crown was only 6 million in debt in s1e3, 3 million of which was to Tywin.
Littlefinger lied. Tell me you’re not surprised.
So if they pay the enemies how do they get it back? Do they expect the enemies to pay them both the money from the previous loan plus the amount they owe? If that’s the case Cersei did Dany a favor. When Cersei looses and Dies Dany will have Westeros and be debt free because who needs Iron Bank funds when you have three full grown Dragons.
From what I remember, it comes down to the terms of the loan. The bank takes a huge risk if they loan to both sides during a war, because either way they’re going to lose some money, the only question is how much
Yes that's usually apart of the stipulation. The challengers to the Crown get substantial loans (probably with long term repayment terms) and if they win, they agree to pay back the previous debt plus the new debt. If they lose the Bank loses essentially both debts. It's why the Iron Bank is now so careful about lending out money.
"So if they pay the enemies how do they get it back?"
Because "the crown" owes the money, and you're the bearer of the crown. When a prince succeeds his father as king, that doesn't wipe all the debts of the kingdom.
That is indeed the risk banks took in medieval times. Many Italian and French ones went bankrupt cause the nations they lent money to never gave them back
"Hey, enemies of guys who owe us money, I'll give you all the interest free money you want if you pay their debt out of what you take from them"
what if I dont?
Ladies and gentlemen, our new Master of Coin and owner of the house that makes a majority of the food and has one of the largest armies. Great writing D&D.
I never understood the concept of iron bank, if someone doesn’t pay them back they fund their enemies… and? Will these enemies pay both their debts and the previous ones debts? That doesn’t make any sense
I think by funding the enemy of the indebted, the assumption is that those in debt will lose, and the bank takes the spoils of their loan with interest - as well as having the winners pay back their new loan with interest too.
What confuses me is what if that enemy doesn't want to take out a loan. What incentive does the bank offer then? And what if the kingdoms just outright refused to pay back their loans. Bank couldn't do shit, and the loan would have just been a grant.
TLDR, banks confuse me
@@Joker-yw9hl People fighting a war will take support from anything a not give a second thought to money landing on their lap with a bit fineprint on it. It might be a mistake but winning is all that matters
D&d saw this and thought let's make bronn the master of coins
The Lannisters: We're crazy enough to take on half of the continent, but the IRS nooo thank you.
I don’t know why people think making Bronn master of coin is a bad idea.
He doesn’t borrow money. That’s a good thing. If the only way you can get money is by borrowing, then you are crap with money and will financially ruin the realm
Yes but Littlefinger did that on purpose to weaken the crown. He wasn't shit with money he was shit person.
Every country needs to borrow money now and then, Bronn not even knowing the concept is indeed worrying if he's Master of Coin.
That's a very stupid take, sorry but not sorry. If you have no money but need to invest, you take a loan. That's how economies work. Then you either succeed and pay it back with interests or you fail and suffer the consequences.
For a country to have credit it has to establish a debt. I think its been this way for a 1,000 years. So if you have a war and cant afford it you need to borrow to survive.
Every single person, entity, corporation and state in the world needs to borrow money at some point. It's not avoidable
This whole conversation could be applied to credit cards and loans today.
Even Tyrion knew how dangerous it was taking out Loans from International Banks.
The idea of a Medieval society owing another Tens of MILLIONS is staggering
Never borrowed money, ends up being master of coin with a castle and bride. 😂
the Iron bank funds the enemies of those that default in exchange for taking over the previous debt… but what happens if no one is interested in fighting their default debt owner?
Then they just sit around and stare at each other, hands on hips, and ask one another, "wait a minute... are we stupid?".
To everyone saying Bronn is unqualified to be Master of Coin
A) he had five years or so between season three and season eight to learn how it works before he became Master of Coin (and the fact that he's learned how it works is kinda demonstrated in that scene) and
B) you know politicians in the real world give unqualified but loyal people positions of power all the time right? Bronn could be the most unqualified person in the world it still doesn't matter. Tyrion owed Bronn a great many favors and a seat on the Small Council was a means of repaying that debt
01:11 the iron bank is coming
This scene is years before Season 8, and I think Bronn had practice when he became a lord. The problem is D&D never showed Bronn becoming good at finance. I mean, it is weird to think of how Rollo became a king in the Vikings show, but the showrunners, directors, and writers did well in showing Rollo actually learning the material. A brief scene of Bronn doing financing while talking with Jaime before heading to Dorne would have been sufficient.
One sees parallels
You don’t put a family member in charge of an entity that owes you money to forgive the debt. On the contrary you do so to make sure that they prioritize paying you back even over other things that may be more pressing for that entity.
The iron bank has not heard of the fallacy of the sunken cost
sooooooo, aparently the one waggon that Jaime Lannister sent back to Kings Landing after they looted Highgarden contained tens of millions of gold? Not only is Highgarden not that rich, but im pretty sure they would need a hell of a lot of wagons to transport that amount of gold
Westeros has its own currency. its not literally tens of millions of pieces of gold. only what that gold is worth
US government officials should look at this clip before starting their day.
I pity Tycho Nestoris now.
0:55 Not with deferred interest😏
What do they mean they blew up the death star? Do you have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?
Ladies and Gentlemen
The Future master of coin
0:35 ah yes, future Master of Coin I suppose - another example of season 8 being insane junk.
Scenes like this that used to be interesting just make me mad now
"But what if I don't?"
"Then you become known as a bad debtor, and nobody else will lend to you, or take your word for things. When Winter comes, nobody will sell you food. People who wish to curry favor with your creditor will steal or seize things you own. Your lord will not give you honors, you will find it hard to make a marriage."
Thing is, most of the debt probably came from Littlefinger stealing a lot of the money from under Roberts nose.
Borrowing is worse than stealing. You're basically taking their money, except there's an IOU on the scene of the crime with your name and address on it.
Something tells me that with the iron bank backing cersei, daenerys/jon will not pay back the iron bank when they take it from cersei.
The iron bank: it’s time to pay up
Bronn: wasn’t us that borrowed from you, bye
See that person asking what borrowing is (has no clue about money at all) yeah he’s later the master of coin
It would've been funny if Dany conquered Braavos or persuaded them to join her growing Essosi empire. Then she can just walk up to Cersei, demand a payment for what's owed, and then tell her that she can sell the throne to the bank and that will be enough payment for all debts.
are the iron bank like the IRS of game of thrones ?🤔
"But what if i dont"
"Then I give money to someone else that will kill you and take all your shit and THEY will pay me back"
How does iron bank get money back by funding their army’s
There’s no way in hell Bronn dosent know how the Iron Bank works lol. He was totally just screwing with Tyrion.
What if lol finger is with the iron bank... would explain everything... just a theory
Nice one!!
What DOES happen if you don't pay the money back?
And they couldnt I dont know give Bronn the shakedown artist who kbows and understands how to get people to pay for things they need of him a keep or land that entitles him to a payment say something like The Twins a place where people in the North Vale and Riverlands would come into contact with in order to travel by land by way of their bridge.
Only I believe what is that thing Bronn finds at 0.40??🤣🤣
It's crazy to me how this was posted 10 years ago....and then it's almost like the United States went "We need our own Iron Bank of Braavos."
Because in the time it's been since this episode, we've done exactly the same thing. Now what happens when those other countries demand to cash in ?
Interesting how for a man who has traveled the world so much Bronn doesn't understand the concept of money or the Iron Bank.
fix the title dude
Is Bronn asking Lending money a nod about him being a Reyne?
Part of me wants to go to a Ferrari dealers and act like Bronn here….casually walking around and then when it comes time to sign….”but what if I DONT make the payments on time?” 🤣. (To be clear doubt I will ever afford a Ferrari…I’d buy a house before that
Iron Bank is basically AIPAC 😂