Another beautiful boat. I really enjoyed the time you spent on the tour. I look forward to seeing your boat build. Thanks again for taking me along again! 😊
Thank you Phil, Eli, & John for taking the time to showcase the new Balance. Viewers, please open & read the Description, much more than a desc., it's more of a newsletter. I appreciate your efforts in helping others as well. Fair winds!
Don't know how we missed this episode but glad it was in our feed today. What's there to dislike about this amazing boat...probably the 5 year wait time is all. Thanks so much for showing. Cheers docs
Thanks for a superb interview with Phil. He gave a REALLY good briefing. The Balance build quality is stunningly good on video. Does it look as good in person? The woodwork is phenomenal, and the plastic composite finishes look great. These boats also sail very well. A 526 recently won the Cape to Rio race against an Outremer. All while having more comfort.
Thanks for the info, Loanwood and yes, the finish in real life is as good as it looks on film - perhaps even better. And yes, the benefit of the extra space is what would make folk get this one and each person has to decide what their priorities are.... Good that the 526 beat the Outremer.
Our pleasure and glad you are watching our video! We think that Phil was only going to release that news later but was so excited he couldn't contain himself!!!
These are all fantastic boats, but no one has a cut like your new boat. I hope so much it will perform like planed! Can’t wait to see you two sailing with your new boat
Hi barefoot Doctors, absolutely love this catamaran love the bamboo panels look so wonderful I was going to buy one that’s what I would get my personal choice. Thank you once again for sharing your wonderful videos Cliff from Australia.
This is a very nice and very well built boat and very expensive for its size. Their integral alternators and parallel hybrid systems is the best in the business only problem is price. If you got lots of money this boat will not disappoint.
Thanks guys. Yes, even without the hybrid engines, now you can get DC generators that produce 5-10KW per hour so eliminates the need for extra generator.
I still say have 20 gallons less water and 14 gallons less fuel on each side and then add 32kw LFP on each side. That gives you 3 more hours electric motoring at around 5-6 knots or 6 hours at electric motor with sails (using 1 electric). there will hardly be times where there is truly no wind. Having an electric motor that can handle running 6 hours is needed. Then turn on diesels for 2.5 hours and repeat. That truly cuts the diesel usage in half during passages with no wind and that is rare to have no wind. Even switching to a carbon fiber tender/dingy can save you couple hundred pounds of weight which again means you can add solar above your dingy/tender or more LFP batteries. Also new tech on LFP has hit 420 watts/kilo now and new solid state cells have hit 720 watts per kilo. I see so many hybrid boats and pure electric doing crosses with no diesel usage. Timing/planning is the key. I like your layout better for the hulls than HH44 but because of the hybrid parallel engine options that can run till batteries are low on electric better. maybe water cool yours so it can run longer.
Thanks for all that up to date info about the LFP that are improving with time. It always comes down to priorities and cost and each boat owner has to be make a decision as to how far down the track of green they want to go...
I don't mean to be critical, But, aluminum hull and deck and an electric hybrid drive. In my opinion not a good idea. Electrolysis could be the worry of your life, causing unseen pitting in submerged corners of your boat that could be impossible to control. Just 40 years of experience as a hobby builder and liveaboard cruiser. Be careful in your choices. Love your video's
HI Patrick, thanks for the support and information. Can you explain what makes the hybrid engine different from the diesel engine in relation to electrolysis? The diesel engine and stainless shaft needs to be fully isolated from teh aluminium anyway and presumably the same will apply to any hybrid addition - please let us knowhow it would be different.
i like the balance boats but the sail drive is a deal breaker for me...i can't pull the boat every year for maintenance. i rather have a shaft drive or just not have a sailboat at all.
I know they are very conservative about E power but I can see them falling behind with declining the options but Epower really does allow multiple solutions where you don't have to cut such large holes in the hull and then seal with a single layer gasket. They already have at there disposal some excellent high efficiency modular motors but if they use rare earth's or copper, sticking them next to a ICE motor isn't ideal as both heat and vibrations lead to degradation. The speed and power argument doesn't hold up from other cases I've read about. If you need more speed /power by all means deploy more powerful motors.. you can always run them slower if you want to reduce drain on the buffering battery. But that's how Edison's logging truck works. The generator ice then doesn't have to fire up for a few hours to run the motors or the recharge the house pack. With modern efficient deisels they are run and in the case of Yanmar s they are electronically controlled and data linked. No off warranty measures. The Ultra high output alternators were originally developed by an English PhD and electronics wizard Nigel Calder who also heads several US and international standards groups. I thought some time ago whether it would be cheaper and more flexible to build a DIY generator just using a smaller ICE driving an array of these alternators? 🤔 but new generators are also getting more efficient. Disconnecting them from the drive function allows them to be made simpler lighter and more fuel efficient and flexible .. as they only have to run at their optimum and load with an easily swapped Preset fuel type. Hydrogen on smaller boats and Yatchs needs storage and higher pressures... and getting gas off boats is why a lot of people have converted to electric. I added to the last post the name of a Chanel Aqua Electric that does nothing but examine the technology and that a group of trade bodies and articles since 2018 have established what can be done and how. But the latest e motor vessels are increasingly reaching higher speeds and longer ranges. You now have stern drive units matched to motors physically smaller than even the Windelo units and lighter that are producing over 800hp ... and massive torq. See Aqua Electric a couple of three releases ago. You can mount a motor vertically or at any angle you can even use a steerable leg or immersable motor pod .. they can even be totally retractable within the hull . If Ten knots cruising sounds fine take a look at the NZ built Earthling E40 electric hybrid power cat . In particular the massive size, type and speed it runs it's prop at. It's Solar and generator powered. So uses 30% or less fuel underway the hull is a sailing cat form...but if you burn the fuel you can go faster just the the saving drops to 25-20% Oxygen cats are another company that's learned the light fast cat with hybrid electric drives work... having tested it on a 50ft one owner sold it in a year and requested a O2 60' When RRoyce built it's electric speed record aircraft they used Cork as an isolator it's also been used by NASA. There's also a fascinating insight into the way that other company is able to turn out virtually perfect mould finished hulls in a fortnight due to the mould Finnish observed by a customer. So no fairing filling painting and minimal remediation I was surprised but so we're Sailing second Star. It's their boat.
Every engineering decision has tradeoffs. Shaft drives have seal and bearing problems and require lasers to correctly align after removing the engine. Shaft drives require significant maintenance. Shaft drives also take up a lot more space in the boat, including needing to put the engine much further forward in the boat (for relatively small boats). Sail drive seals don't fail as often as they used to, and leaks are now contained to a lower chamber.
@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 A smart way to do a (serial hybrid) generator is to connect a conventional Diesel to a modern electric motor and controller operated as a generator. That's functionally what most of the parallel hybrids do, including Beta and Integrel. Generators based on this concept are also available commercially. This is much better than a regular genset in terms of size, weight, maintenance, etc., for a given power.
Start getting in the habit of saying LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate. Lithium batteries are the ones catching fire and you want to stay clear of that unless you are not using LFP.
Lithium Ion is very safe as long as you design them with lots of safety measures. It has almost twice the energy densities of LifePo4. My lithium ion designs are based off Tesla tech and have 4 safety measures Even at 1500 amp draw at 50 volts each cell only draws 1.5 amps which requires no cooling unlike Tesla designed battery packs. LifePo4 ONLY has the bms to protect the battery pack. A 252 KW lithium ion battery pack weighs in at exactly 1 metric ton.
HI DC, yes in all the boat visits we did we had to specify whether it was Lithium iron PO4 or not - and all were PO4 when we asked... Good point for us and all folk to be stating up front what kind of Lithium is being used.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 LifePo4 is one of the safest lithium chemistry's there is however it comes with a weight penalty. Its alot more heavier than lithium ion. The lithium ion chemistry I only use is NCA which is the safest of the lithium ion family. Its the same chemistry that Tesla uses however you must design extra safety measures in your design.
The NCA stands for Nickel Cobalt Aluminum it's the aluminum that makes it safe...ish and light. Where LifePo4 has iron in it that makes it heavy but very safe it also has 5 year less shelf life than NCA.
Thanks Shelley for watching and the comments. It’s always a trade off and all depends what your priorities are. The Balance has a lot more space and the HH is ahead with their hybrids so far… We never judge as it always comes down to personal preference and priories. When you are looking to purchase, make sure to get on board your top choices AND go for a sail / charter to made sure they feel nice to you underway.
The HH 44 looks like it was hit in the back by a truck. The hulls are too short to look proportional. The balance helm is light years ahead of HH also. The HH helm has huge blind spots and no real helm seat. I would take a Balance over HH any day.
@@laurapitre5797 Thanks Laura for your input - yes we have learned that everyone puts different value levels on the different attributes and some like one boat and others like different ones. We try to show all the features of the boats to let each person make up their own mind. We have always loved the Balance boats with their increased volume and liveability but they don;t have other features that we were looking for (like ability to beach...)
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Most boats over a given size, or with high performance (high aspect ratio) rudders or keels won't be able to beach. That's usually one of the tradeoffs of getting better sailing performance and/or a consequence of size. And yes, there are some ways to do exceptions, such as kick up rudders and swing keels. Most boats are not built that way.
They don’t power everything through their batteries, because it would kill them in no time. They use an inverter which can handle any voltage and frequency nowadays. Moreover, they probably use the same Victron everyone else uses. Nothing special here, just sales talk.
Hi and thanks for the comment. I think he was looking at it more broadly saying that the power fro the shore goes to the batteries that then creates the the 240V in the boat from the inverter so the external power is not directly supplying your devices in the boat.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Yeah, what I believe he meant here is that they use an "Isolation Transformer" (Victron makes those, too), which shields the boat's electric circuit from the external power. Continuous and simulataneous charging and discharging of the batteries would inevitably drastically reduce their lifespan.
Thank you Eli & John for visiting us and sharing such a thorough look-around the 442. We appreciate the love. Fair winds to you both.
Thank you too, Phil and Dean!
Another beautiful boat. I really enjoyed the time you spent on the tour. I look forward to seeing your boat build.
Thanks again for taking me along again! 😊
More boat builds and our cruising blogs next week, Warren!
Thank you Phil, Eli, & John for taking the time to showcase the new Balance. Viewers, please open & read the Description, much more than a desc., it's more of a newsletter. I appreciate your efforts in helping others as well. Fair winds!
Thanks for the support Gdiup!
Don't know how we missed this episode but glad it was in our feed today.
What's there to dislike about this amazing boat...probably the 5 year wait time is all. Thanks so much for showing. Cheers docs
Absolutely! Glad you liked it!!!
Love this company's product! 😇
Us too, JT!
Balance are really nice boats.. thanks for sharing!
Glad you like them, Justin!
Thanks for a superb interview with Phil. He gave a REALLY good briefing.
The Balance build quality is stunningly good on video. Does it look as good in person? The woodwork is phenomenal, and the plastic composite finishes look great.
These boats also sail very well. A 526 recently won the Cape to Rio race against an Outremer. All while having more comfort.
Thanks for the info, Loanwood and yes, the finish in real life is as good as it looks on film - perhaps even better. And yes, the benefit of the extra space is what would make folk get this one and each person has to decide what their priorities are.... Good that the 526 beat the Outremer.
Thanks for including Integrel in this video - great to hear you and Phil discussing both Integrel E-Power and Integrel E-Drive!
Our pleasure and glad you are watching our video! We think that Phil was only going to release that news later but was so excited he couldn't contain himself!!!
These are all fantastic boats, but no one has a cut like your new boat. I hope so much it will perform like planed! Can’t wait to see you two sailing with your new boat
Thanks Juergen! We can’t wait to see it performing too and it will be exciting to see the numbers!!!!
Hi barefoot Doctors, absolutely love this catamaran love the bamboo panels look so wonderful I was going to buy one that’s what I would get my personal choice. Thank you once again for sharing your wonderful videos Cliff from Australia.
Thanks very much Cliff! Glad you enjoyed it and liked us continuing the boat reviews…
Another great walkthrough. I fell in love with Balance from Trevor and Kerry on the Balance 601, Amazing Catamarans.
Thanks Amanda - yes we love the features of the Balances with so many clever features.
This is a very nice and very well built boat and very expensive for its size. Their integral alternators and parallel hybrid systems is the best in the business only problem is price. If you got lots of money this boat will not disappoint.
Thanks Carlos.
Great review !
Thanks again Jero!
Love it how we can watch the bottom of his bare feet wiggling his toes for 2 minutes straight at 15m48 , great camera work 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
:))
The parallel hybrid creating no need for a separate generator is an interesting plan.
Donate for a Dream
Thanks guys. Yes, even without the hybrid engines, now you can get DC generators that produce 5-10KW per hour so eliminates the need for extra generator.
👍👍👍
:)
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Thanks John and Eli.
I still say have 20 gallons less water and 14 gallons less fuel on each side and then add 32kw LFP on each side. That gives you 3 more hours electric motoring at around 5-6 knots or 6 hours at electric motor with sails (using 1 electric). there will hardly be times where there is truly no wind. Having an electric motor that can handle running 6 hours is needed. Then turn on diesels for 2.5 hours and repeat. That truly cuts the diesel usage in half during passages with no wind and that is rare to have no wind. Even switching to a carbon fiber tender/dingy can save you couple hundred pounds of weight which again means you can add solar above your dingy/tender or more LFP batteries. Also new tech on LFP has hit 420 watts/kilo now and new solid state cells have hit 720 watts per kilo. I see so many hybrid boats and pure electric doing crosses with no diesel usage. Timing/planning is the key. I like your layout better for the hulls than HH44 but because of the hybrid parallel engine options that can run till batteries are low on electric better. maybe water cool yours so it can run longer.
Thanks for all that up to date info about the LFP that are improving with time. It always comes down to priorities and cost and each boat owner has to be make a decision as to how far down the track of green they want to go...
One problem with solid state lithium is that its crazy expensive. However its watt hours per kilogram is amazing.
I am sure that things will get progressively better over the years too!
No regen? Didn’t think of everything needed.
Balance are going to be adding regen onto future boats though.... Through the saildrive.
I don't mean to be critical, But, aluminum hull and deck and an electric hybrid drive. In my opinion not a good idea. Electrolysis could be the worry of your life, causing unseen pitting in submerged corners of your boat that could be impossible to control. Just 40 years of experience as a hobby builder and liveaboard cruiser. Be careful in your choices. Love your video's
HI Patrick, thanks for the support and information. Can you explain what makes the hybrid engine different from the diesel engine in relation to electrolysis? The diesel engine and stainless shaft needs to be fully isolated from teh aluminium anyway and presumably the same will apply to any hybrid addition - please let us knowhow it would be different.
i like the balance boats but the sail drive is a deal breaker for me...i can't pull the boat every year for maintenance. i rather have a shaft drive or just not have a sailboat at all.
I know they are very conservative about E power but I can see them falling behind with declining the options but Epower really does allow multiple solutions where you don't have to cut such large holes in the hull and then seal with a single layer gasket.
They already have at there disposal some excellent high efficiency modular motors but if they use rare earth's or copper, sticking them next to a ICE motor isn't ideal as both heat and vibrations lead to degradation.
The speed and power argument doesn't hold up from other cases I've read about. If you need more speed /power by all means deploy more powerful motors.. you can always run them slower if you want to reduce drain on the buffering battery. But that's how Edison's logging truck works. The generator ice then doesn't have to fire up for a few hours to run the motors or the recharge the house pack.
With modern efficient deisels they are run and in the case of Yanmar s they are electronically controlled and data linked. No off warranty measures.
The Ultra high output alternators were originally developed by an English PhD and electronics wizard Nigel Calder who also heads several US and international standards groups.
I thought some time ago whether it would be cheaper
and more flexible to build a DIY generator just using a smaller ICE driving an array of these alternators? 🤔 but new generators are also getting more efficient.
Disconnecting them from the drive function allows them to be made simpler lighter and more fuel efficient and flexible .. as they only have to run at their optimum and load with an easily swapped
Preset fuel type.
Hydrogen on smaller boats and Yatchs needs storage and higher pressures... and getting gas off boats is why a lot of people have converted to electric.
I added to the last post the name of a Chanel Aqua Electric that does nothing but examine the technology and that a group of trade bodies and articles since 2018 have established what can be done and how. But the latest e motor vessels are increasingly reaching higher speeds and longer ranges. You now have stern drive units matched to motors physically smaller than even the Windelo units and lighter that are producing over 800hp ... and massive torq. See Aqua Electric a couple of three releases ago.
You can mount a motor vertically or at any angle you can even use a steerable leg or immersable motor pod .. they can even be totally retractable within the hull .
If Ten knots cruising sounds fine take a look at the NZ built Earthling E40 electric hybrid power cat .
In particular the massive size, type and speed it runs it's prop at. It's Solar and generator powered. So uses 30% or less fuel underway the hull is a sailing cat form...but if you burn the fuel you can go faster just the the saving drops to 25-20%
Oxygen cats are another company that's learned the light fast cat with hybrid electric drives work... having tested it on a 50ft one owner sold it in a year and requested a O2 60'
When RRoyce built it's electric speed record aircraft they used Cork as an isolator it's also been used by NASA.
There's also a fascinating insight into the way that other company is able to turn out virtually perfect mould finished hulls in a fortnight due to the mould Finnish observed by a customer. So no fairing filling painting and minimal remediation I was surprised but so we're Sailing second Star. It's their boat.
Every engineering decision has tradeoffs. Shaft drives have seal and bearing problems and require lasers to correctly align after removing the engine. Shaft drives require significant maintenance.
Shaft drives also take up a lot more space in the boat, including needing to put the engine much further forward in the boat (for relatively small boats).
Sail drive seals don't fail as often as they used to, and leaks are now contained to a lower chamber.
@@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 A smart way to do a (serial hybrid) generator is to connect a conventional Diesel to a modern electric motor and controller operated as a generator. That's functionally what most of the parallel hybrids do, including Beta and Integrel. Generators based on this concept are also available commercially.
This is much better than a regular genset in terms of size, weight, maintenance, etc., for a given power.
HI Randall, Most builders use sail drives as they are much easier to install and save hull space. For me too, I prefer shafts for many reasons....
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Sail drives are good for boat builders not full time live aboard.
Start getting in the habit of saying LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate. Lithium batteries are the ones catching fire and you want to stay clear of that unless you are not using LFP.
LFP is so superior, especially on boats, that almost no one is using other Lithium chemistries on boats.
Lithium Ion is very safe as long as you design them with lots of safety measures. It has almost twice the energy densities of LifePo4. My lithium ion designs are based off Tesla tech and have 4 safety measures Even at 1500 amp draw at 50 volts each cell only draws 1.5 amps which requires no cooling unlike Tesla designed battery packs. LifePo4 ONLY has the bms to protect the battery pack. A 252 KW lithium ion battery pack weighs in at exactly 1 metric ton.
HI DC, yes in all the boat visits we did we had to specify whether it was Lithium iron PO4 or not - and all were PO4 when we asked... Good point for us and all folk to be stating up front what kind of Lithium is being used.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 LifePo4 is one of the safest lithium chemistry's there is however it comes with a weight penalty. Its alot more heavier than lithium ion. The lithium ion chemistry I only use is NCA which is the safest of the lithium ion family. Its the same chemistry that Tesla uses however you must design extra safety measures in your design.
The NCA stands for Nickel Cobalt Aluminum it's the aluminum that makes it safe...ish and light. Where LifePo4 has iron in it that makes it heavy but very safe it also has 5 year less shelf life than NCA.
I'd take the HH44 over this boat any day of the week! Thanks for reviewing both but the HH seems light years ahead of this one...
Thanks Shelley for watching and the comments. It’s always a trade off and all depends what your priorities are. The Balance has a lot more space and the HH is ahead with their hybrids so far… We never judge as it always comes down to personal preference and priories. When you are looking to purchase, make sure to get on board your top choices AND go for a sail / charter to made sure they feel nice to you underway.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 They're both good boats and a bit different.
The HH 44 looks like it was hit in the back by a truck. The hulls are too short to look proportional. The balance helm is light years ahead of HH also. The HH helm has huge blind spots and no real helm seat. I would take a Balance over HH any day.
@@laurapitre5797 Thanks Laura for your input - yes we have learned that everyone puts different value levels on the different attributes and some like one boat and others like different ones. We try to show all the features of the boats to let each person make up their own mind. We have always loved the Balance boats with their increased volume and liveability but they don;t have other features that we were looking for (like ability to beach...)
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Most boats over a given size, or with high performance (high aspect ratio) rudders or keels won't be able to beach. That's usually one of the tradeoffs of getting better sailing performance and/or a consequence of size.
And yes, there are some ways to do exceptions, such as kick up rudders and swing keels. Most boats are not built that way.
They don’t power everything through their batteries, because it would kill them in no time. They use an inverter which can handle any voltage and frequency nowadays. Moreover, they probably use the same Victron everyone else uses. Nothing special here, just sales talk.
Hi and thanks for the comment. I think he was looking at it more broadly saying that the power fro the shore goes to the batteries that then creates the the 240V in the boat from the inverter so the external power is not directly supplying your devices in the boat.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Yeah, what I believe he meant here is that they use an "Isolation Transformer" (Victron makes those, too), which shields the boat's electric circuit from the external power. Continuous and simulataneous charging and discharging of the batteries would inevitably drastically reduce their lifespan.
@@wrobelda Thanks for clarifying - I only know the general principles so that info is great!