Black Widow's 3rd Act Entirely Re-Worked | David Harbour Confirms MCU Reworks Constantly!
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2023
- David Harbour appeared on Josh Horowitz's podcast, "Happy, Sad, Confused" to talk Gran Turismo. During the interview Harbour revealed some pretty BIG stuff about Black Widow and the Marvel Studios creative process.
WATCH THE FULL INTERVIEW HERE: • David Harbour talks GR...
The Thunderbolts and Black Widow talk starts around 35 minutes
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AI DESCRIPTION
In a bombshell interview released just last week, David Harbour spills the beans on what many of us have long suspected about Marvel's behind-the-scenes movie production. The actor confirms the whispers and rumors surrounding Marvel's constant reworking of films both during production and in post-production. Get ready to dive into the intricate world of Marvel's creative process as we dissect Harbour's revelations in this thought-provoking video.
Join us as we break down a pivotal moment in the recent interview where David Harbour discusses the inner workings of Marvel, shedding light on their penchant for script changes, last-minute tweaks, and the pursuit of creative freedom. With his candid and honest insights, Harbour offers a unique perspective on how Marvel's storytelling process functions, and the challenges it presents for both filmmakers and fans.
Josh Horowitz's podcast, "Happy, Sad, Confused," was the platform for this eye-opening conversation. We explore how Harbour's new film "Granturismo" took a back seat as he delved into the intriguing dynamics of Thunderbolts and its place in the Marvel universe. Harbour navigates the discussion with a careful balance, acknowledging Marvel's creative vision while raising concerns about the extensive revisions that have become commonplace.
In this video, we dissect the key points made by Harbour, including his explanation of Marvel's approach to reworking scripts and scenes, drawing parallels with well-known films like "Black Widow." The interview underlines the struggles faced by actors and directors when dealing with constant changes during filming and post-production. We also delve into the broader implications of this approach on the overall quality and direction of Marvel's cinematic universe.
So buckle up as we analyze Harbour's candid commentary, discuss the merits and drawbacks of Marvel's ever-evolving process, and consider how this approach might be affecting the storytelling magic that fans have come to expect. Join the conversation and share your thoughts on whether Marvel's commitment to creative freedom is a boon or a bane for the future of their cinematic universe.
If you're a Marvel fan or simply curious about the inner workings of Hollywood's biggest franchise, this video is a must-watch. Subscribe and hit the notification bell to stay up-to-date with all things entertainment, as we continue to explore the captivating world of movies, TV shows, and pop culture.
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VIDEO SUMMARY This video contains Sean Chandler Talks About's
"David Harbour Reveals Marvel's Movie-Making Secrets: Constant Reworking Unveiled"
"Inside Scoop: David Harbour Exposes Marvel's Dynamic Production Process"
"Unmasking Marvel: David Harbour's Interview on Creative Freedom and Revisions"
"The Marvel Machine: David Harbour Talks About Constant Changes in Movie Production"
"Breaking Down the Marvel Movie Process: Insights from David Harbour"
"From Script to Screen: How Marvel's Movies Evolve According to David Harbour"
"Creative Chaos: David Harbour Sheds Light on Marvel's Ever-Changing Scripts"
"The Evolution of Marvel Movies: David Harbour Discusses In-Production Changes"
"Behind the Scenes with David Harbour: The Marvel Movie Transformation"
"Adapting on the Fly: David Harbour Dives into Marvel's Flexibility in Filmmaking"
"David Harbour's Shocking Revelation: Black Widow's 3rd Act Overhauled!"
"Unveiling Marvel's Secret: Black Widow's Major 3rd Act Rewrite Exposed!"
"Redefining Marvel's Process: David Harbour's Insight into Black Widow's Changes"
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Makes me worried given the amount of backlash their recent projects have received and they still havent been able to course correct
Assuming they even want to change the process (which I kinda doubt, since that's how Marvel Studios has always operated), you wouldn't see any changes until like maybe next year, probably 2025.
Especially when Multiverse of Madness made more than Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3.
@@BatAmericaTrue but Vol.3 had WAY better legs and staying power.
More people are gonna talk about Vol.3 in a positive way for years than Multiverse of Madness
@@calebcold3plus I don’t really care that it made more. It’s the last of the trilogy. So unlike dr strange, we actually got a finished story
The ending to Ant-Man 3 was definitely changed like hell. There was a leak on the Marvel Studios Spoilers Reddit page, which summarised the entire movie in accurate detail, until the end.
Instead of opening a portal, the "Ant-Fam" (another abandoned concept) had Quantum Watches which Tony invented in Endgame. They all teleport to Earth, but Scott is left behind and Kang proceeds to beat the shit out of him "ala Thanos to Tony in Infinity War".
Hope goes back for Scott, but this was what Kang wanted. He steals her watch and escapes, leaving Scott and Hope stranded.
Kang in Quantumania was going to be the main villain of the Multiverse Saga. He was going to be in Avengers: The Kang Dynasty.
With nobody remembering Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Doctor Strange in the Dark Dimension, Thor off on his own with Love and now Scott and Hope trapped in the Quantum Realm, everyone was out of action for the impending threat.
Sounds like a much better ending than wut actually happened
Hopefully they resolve this issue long before Secret Wars.
I recently watched a show called Heels staring Stephen Amel and found it was written by Michael Waldron, recognising the name somewhere I looked it up and found he was the guy who wrote Multiverse of Madness. Couldn’t believe it, and he wrote a great well written show in Heels and Dr Strange 2 was so all over it was hard to believe it’s the same guy.
But this makes so much sense why there is a massive consistency quality between the two projects
Well one is a TV show with time to write episodes for, and another is a big budget movie with a studio that constantly changes things on the dot, any decent writer wouldn't be able salvage that
That’s what happens when you give a writer more time to write a compelling narrative. Knowing what he went through behind the scenes of MoM I don’t think it’s his fault. You can tell a lot of these phase 4 projects were rushed, Marvel needs to slow down. Secret Wars is years away, I hope learns their lesson and give these writers more time write a cohesive story.
I mean he also wrote Loki which was praised by the fans and then completely ruined Doctor Strange 2. Something's not right
@@Smile-hk7vd Loki is trash, it's definitely Marvel
@@Smile-hk7vd: I wouldn’t put Waldron as the cause of Dr Strange’s inconsistencies. The actress who played America Chavez even said the story was re-written multiple times after his original
Secret Invasions did not get good reviews, don't know if it was better before or after the changes. However, the biggest mistake was not including any Avengers in the story, they should added at least 2 lower tier Avengers which would have helped the story. Also, absolutely no reason to kill off Maria Hill, she would have helped in the show to continue on.
Definitely agree, adding Falcon or someone like that could've helped.
This should've been an avengers movie or a duology at least
Actor didn’t wanna be in marvel anymore
Ngl I can’t agree here. People couldn’t handle a character with almost 0 development like rhodey being a skrull, having an avenger reveal would’ve pissed people off.
I’m currently working on my own pitch for how to fix Secret Invasion, hopefully soon🙏🏻
Regarding quantumania script, just hear the commentary with the director and the writer. Yes, it was totally him.
Also watch the assembled making of episode. Bull Murray totally spills the beans. "This is the writer. He is writing as he goes along".
Also, it's his first movie script ever. .
I mean this has always been how most of the MCU movies have been produced. And it's probably because they did it with Iron Man and a few times after that and it worked out great. So why change a running system. And at some point, it's hard to change that.
And let's not forget, that a movie like Thor 4 had not much studio interference.
Both methods have produced great and not so great movies.
Im glad David Harbour isn't getting mad at the studio that literally made a movie he was in unlike Rachel Zegler 😂
As a huge animation fan, what she said was utterly disrespectful.
The movie is 100 years old. Of course there are going to be changes in values over that span of time. Why does she not have the right to criticize a piece of media made so long ago black people were still regularly getting lynched in America??
@@christianjalexanderbecause there are ways to discuss changes in social norms without acting like a jackass talking down to people. Also, there’s nothing about what you’re talking about in Snow White, that’s a false equivalency.
"I mean it's no longer 1964. Stan Lee literally named her Black Widow and then made her white. Weird? Weird!"
@NinthShinigami No what she said was right. It was stupid that she was in love with him. Just because people love the movie does not mean you can't point out issues with it.
I really wish we could see the original vision Scott Derickson had for Multiverse of madness. Don't forget that he left the movie because of creative differences, meaning he probably had a really cool idea for the movie and what to do with the multiverse. Instead we got pizza in a bowl and cheap forgettable cameos. Mcu really needs to trust directors more.
What Raimi gave us is infinitely better than anything Derrickson could have given us. Both have to deal with Marvel’s guidelines, but if anyone should be trusted with their own vision free of interference it should be Raimi.
THIS
I would have preferred to have seen Raimi’s full vision of the film though…
The film is clearly 50% Raimi and the other 50% is committee!
Although I do get what you’re saying and agree to some extent, we have seen examples when Marvel trusts their directors such as Taika Waititi and look how that went…
@@lukerota1547I completely agree
How far has MCU fallen🙃
Further than Gamora and BW
What you don’t know is that marvel always did this. Even with the first Iron man they were improvising on set and changing the script around, it just turned out better cause John Favreau did a lot of Indie films and was use to it
@@dragon9slayer250I guess with the quantity increasing and the limited time, it's just impossible to keep up everything
@@dragon9slayer250i know that it has happened since iron man but then this thing has had much more negative consequences since phase 4
@@spawncampe yeah 😞 at least Disney learned that they need to slow down and can’t push out 8 projects a year
If Novelizations Were Still A Thing, We Could See How They Could Have Ended Without Studio Interference.
I always feel bad for the director for this kind of situation. They must be very excited to work with Marvel when they were hired.
And then their vision of the movie completely ruined by "them" and then the director will be blamed anyway by the critics and fans for the failure to deliver a great storyline for that movie. Marvel need to give their directors some freedom
Foreign & anime studios are using their budget more wisely it seems. Shows like The glory, Revenant, Alice in Borderland, Oshi no Ko, Zom 100 & Jujutsu Kaisen have alot more life than the majority of current Mcu.
I'm pretty sure most people working in Anime are underpaid and overworked to hell.
Agreed bro 👍 tbh I’ve been enjoying anime and manga over a vast majority of Hollywood films and shows for almost a decade now. It’s been the most prevalent since around 2018 for me
This was always a thing. I remember reading an article during the phase 3 times that Kevin Feige said one of the keys to his success was reshoots.
Yep. It’s always how it’s been because the MCU is an overall story not just movie by movie basis. New fans don’t understand this
I agree David
From what I hear the same thing happened with the third act of Shang-Chi, which like Black Widow was easily it’s worst part.
Shang chi’s third act was pretty good
@@Emu1776 But it was still the worst part of the film, especially the Dweller in Darkness and the fight with him that didn't need to be there. I could be more in-depth with this but there is a video that briefly covered this (even though it wasn't the subject of the video): ruclips.net/video/FfVHyL_0tQQ/видео.html
Years ago I said the Mcu was going to crumble and everybody laughed. They are not laughing anymore......
It’s such a double edged sword tho, they were working the whole third act of No Way Home during production and no one complained about that. This is one thing that when you love the movie they were smart to rework it, when you hate it they shouldn’t have reworked it. Marvel has a method, you just don’t like the results at times.
And, so, Generally Speaking and for Simplicity's Sake, and in essence and in other news, The Sky Is Blue, The Grass Is Green, Water Is Wet, Fire Is Hot and A Knife Is Sharp.
And, Well, Objectively Speaking and Impartial-Wise, this has usually if not always been the case when anyone and everyone talkatively discuss about Film Universes such as The Marvel Cinematic Universe itself and since the original inception of The Marvel Cinematic Universe itselfas well, as not only did corporations such as Disney and Marvel constantly executively interfere and manhandle their way into every single facet of said Film Universe and its projects on a frequently daily basis in such an moronically idiotic way and in such an dangerously reckless manner (EX. Iron Man 2, Thor: The Dark World (AKA. Thor 2, Ant-Man 1and so on and so forth.).), but they also systemically (re)hired everyday individuals such as John Watts, Sam Raimi, Chloe Zhao and The Russo Brothers so that they could do things such as that they could influentially control their own projects to be what they personally want them to do and what they wholeheartedly wanted these projects to truly be in such an obnoxiously unhelpful fashion. - (E.G. John Watts and Co.'s MCU's Spider-Man Trilogy-Series, The Russo Brothers' and Co.'s Avengers: EndGame(?), Chloe Zhao and Co.'s MCU's Eternals, Sam Raimi and Co.'s MCU's Doctor Strange and The MultiVerse Of Madness and so on and so forth.).
And, so, I don't partially get how and why people (And that especially includes you yourself.) can be so shockingly surprised that these very things and matters happen if not happened beforehand (Both Formerly and/or Presently.), when corporations such as Disney and Marvel do all these very things all the time. (And this is even when they have no legitimately valid reasons and factually truthful statements for doing any of this at all.). - And, if The Marvel Cinematic Universe itself wasn't foundationally predicated on things and matters such as General Popularity, Rose-Tinted Nostalgia, Fan (Cult.) Worship and Brand Recognition, this very Film Universe would be generally all-around treated no different than how Film Universes such as HasBro's and Co.'s Transformers Universe (AKA. Michael Bay's Transformers Universe.) itself was for being mediocrely average garbage at its best overall, and this very Film Universe would be generally all-around seen no different than how Warner Brothers and Co.'s DC Extended Universe itself has been for several several years at this point at its worst altogether as well too.
Black Widow 2: Yelena & the Thunderbolts.
So well said
Unless it’s James Gunn, he sticks to his plan, his vision and no one has ever made him do anything.
They really did peak with Endgame. I don’t envy the writers that work their tails off creating probably great scripts then all of a sudden it comes down from the top scrap it… aahhh that sucks
While I agree that its a bad idea to rewrite the scripts halfway through and change the final act mid shoot... Doesnt getting the script finalized and to where the studio wants it before shooting kind of fix that? Sounds like thats what this is.
Directors never had full control of their MCU project since Avengers at the VERY latest, but id guess since Iron Man 2. This isnt new. And its what got us some of our favorite MCU movies. Now, theres an argument to be made about the story group being not good, but rewriting the Thunderbolts script pre-shooting is not the issue here.
The reports and comments from actors post-phase 3 are dramatically more alarming than what we were hearing during the first 3 phases.
You don’t have reports of 33 re-writes on Winter Soldier. You didn’t have nearly as many with reports of DRAMATIC not routine re-shoots.
It’s tough to give them the benefit of the doubt as to what’s going on in light of all the data points.
Harbour says the script is tight and the director likes the script…THEY want freedom.
If it wasn’t for actors claiming a movie last year for 33 re-writes and then they dramatically re-worked and reshot that film, I would trust them more.
If it wasn’t for Ant-Man 3 having the ending re-shot a month before release…
If I trusted the story group it’s a good thing for them to get the script right. I DO NOT trust the current story group.
@@SeanChandlerPlus I totally get where you're coming from. Like I said I agree that this is not the ideal, and should be addressed as an issue with the story group. I hope they do and I hope they are.
But this also isn't really news, nor is it an inherently bad thing. Genuinely, correct me if I'm wrong on this: hasn't Iger recently said a number of times that they are trying to rework how these things are produced? Focus on quality not quantity? Who's to say that's not what this is? Maybe they already are refocusing the story group, and this is a reflection of that. I guess I'm just being optimistic haha!
Either way, I don't know that Harbour thinking the script was solid is evidence that it was genuinely great. I also don't know that it wasn't. I have no idea what his taste in film or script is. I love his work, and he seems like a really humble dude. Which means he probably wouldn't badmouth anyone's work, just like he isn't badmouthing Disney for reworking the Black Widow 3rd act.
Some may think that its normal that reshoots and rewrites its normal in Marvel Studios, Infinity War had those, it had cut content, but in the production of these projects that we are receiving right now were in development during Bob Chapeks administration in Disney, we maybe seing that change of administration in 2024, but if we take Thunderbolts development, it was going to be a totally different movie, it was going to be more like a "Black Widow 2" but now that he is no longer responsible of the script and it entered new writers, obviously there is gonna needed some rewrites but that could still affect how the movie is going to be like.
Learning that marvel projects had a bunch of reshoots and rewrites isn't surprising at all these days cos you can see it and feel the reworking when watching the films/shows, with a couple of exceptions like guardians 3. And that's something you can't feel at all in the infinity saga. In the multiverse saga you can totally see and feel things have been altered and changed
For better or for worse Marvel needs to stop doing this
I don’t think the story group is as strong and there’s too many projects. And so what worked before is crumbling
I’ve said it b4 and I’ll say it again, Marvel is turning into the old DC regime that ruined Justice League and BvS
I don’t wanna hear anyone bitch about WB “messing with DC” when Snyder was there ever again! It’s not the amount of studio interference, it’s the quality of the filmmaker and their abilities. Snyder was the one who failed DC
2:20 Weirdly enough, I loved Dr Strange 2. Re writes aren't always a bad thing. 🤷♂
The problem is that the directors don’t have a clear picture of what they want for their movies or tv shows look at the best of MCU phase 4 they all had a clear structure and idea. That’s probably what’s also wrong with the tv shows.
Wait, how was he promoting Gran Turismo? I thought actors weren't allowed to do that.
The interview was recorded before the actor strike. The interview starts off making this clear
Honestly had the normal endings happened, the recent Marvel films could have better received and maybe the upcoming Marvel movies could have come much sooner maybe even some of them now had the original ending happened unless the pandemic and strike affected them
I totally agree HOWEVER marvel has always been this way, no? How is this any different from phases 1-3? Their approach of “committee made” films lead to the most successful run of films of all time. I think the main problem now is that the brand is being diluted by too many projects and ideas
The problem with "them" is that "they" themselves are not sure what they want. So if they're not confident enough in their own ideas to stick with them, how can the audience be? Say what you will about Nolan or Tarantino, or any other story creator of that ilk. Like them or not, they always back their ideas, and that's why they massed a fanbase over the years. You never hear someone like them change their mind mid-production and rewrite a whole section of their movie. The Marvel story group just seems to be incompetent in even providing a story direction they're comfortable with before filming begins. And once again, if you're not confident in your own creation, you can't ask other people to be. If your writer and director are just worker-bees who change whatever whenever "they" get cold feet, what's the point of even hiring them, it only devalues those particular jobs. If your goal is to make great movies, which it definitely should be if you're in this business, a quick glance at the history of pretty much all of the greatest movies of all time shows that this kinda thing didn't happen
I’ve always loved marvel and Star Wars and still watch the stuff. But once you start watching anime and more eastern story telling. It’s so hard to go back. After seeing the storytelling, passion, and production quality. It’s just so hard. I haven’t finished secret invasion because I’d rather watch something that’s actually incredible start to finish line jujutsu kaisen right now. These western companies need to get back on track focusing on telling good stories and not just appealing to the largest audiences possible
K you have my attention. Anything else you recommend? Also I’ve seen IP Man does that count?😂
This does sadly confirm my worries and concerns about “modern” Disney…
They are quickly becoming like Warner Bros and how they treated their DC Universe!
Considering the amount of backlash they have received from fans, I’m surprised Disney and Kevin Feige etc haven’t even tried to course correct? That’s not a good sign!
I like David Harbour but he’s obviously just trying to protect himself and his career…
I think it’ll change by the time Avengers 5 and 6 comes out because we have so much time in between.
The final act was my least favorite part of the film. It got too over the top compared to the relatively grounded moments that were throughout the first two acts and things got stupid with the Taskmaster reveal and the scent that wouldn't allow Black Widow to harm the villain.
😬😬😬 I think they shouldn’t be doing this but I hope the thunderbolts is good because I super excited for it one of my anticipated movies of next year but I still have love marvel no matter what if they do this which I don’t think they should be doing this
Kevin Feige is quoted as saying he was hands off with Sam Raimi for Doctor Strange 2.
Comparing with DC movies, they have been through troubles that the reset was pressed when James Gunn is in charged an is aware they have rushed in to catch up. Marvel is probably having a crisis on a cinematic narrative over a decade that from the past few years it was too much. And what makes us bad that generally DC was expected to be try hard as Marvel is expected to to surpass each installment like if their life depends on it but ends having ups with having decent tales and downs when the internet is currently milking the anger because Marvel is one of the bigger fish Disney holds which Iger had to rearrange the schedule.
Imagine if in every film and show we get a Stan Lee cameo but of Kang. Maybe someone walks into him by accident. Maybe he could have been who’s shoulder Moon Knight was sleeping on, maybe someone Ms Marvel walked into, maybe sitting at the back of the bus in Shang-Chi in one scene but then had disappeared the next.
They could have also possibly added Kang imagery in all the projects, maybe a couple of times we see a clash of purple and green or something that resembles his chair or his blue platforms.
It would certainly help to keep everything connected and make us feel like the time travelling Kang is actually powerful
Its so disappointing too because the best films from the MCU have all happened when the creators were actually given the freedom to complete thier vision for them....
Marvel needs to take a break
Why is this a big deal? The MCU has always done reworkings on their projects.
It's only now, people have a problem with it, because "it's bad" or "it concerns me".
If this energy from the public/critics wasn't there during the Infinity Saga, why is it here now just suddenly? Makes no sense to me.
Hope to get The Raimi Cut Of MOM.
Black widow is the worst most disrespectful movie I’ve ever seen and it made me anti-marvel
I'd rather have a movie be bad because the actual writers/directors messed up. Not cause the story group decided to mess with stuff...
They need to stop that BS, Black Widow should've been better, I think the first 45 minutes/maybe an hour are pretty strong but it loses it way and the 3rd act really knocked it down for me. Still decent, maybe a 6/10 but we all wanted more from a great character. I'm a big Sam Rami fan but not surprised by all those changes and I hated that movie. It's just CGI nonsense with a really weak story.
And then They wonder why people are starting to hate their work….
God forbid the people who plan out the MCU and make sure everything is on track want to change things. It’s almost like mcu movies aren’t standalone movies. There’s an over arching story they have to keep track of that some (a lot) of directors don’t respect
Marvel Phases 1, 2, and 3 - wonderful. The rest ... meh
Agreed. Cept for Shang Chi, No Way Home, and Guardians 3. Just me tho 😂
Maybe Melina chloroforming Natasha and Yelena would have made a better 3rd act.
This is disappointing ever after endgame Some are great spider man 3 GOTGVOL3, the start of Disney+ Wanda but everything is all meh, ok, NO, bad sour taste, Good start whoops it flopped at the end it’s making lose faith. Like the old days it’s time to close up this franchise and/or a reboot. I never thought I’d be watching marvel content in my late 30s I’m 27 so it’s gonna be long ride!
Sam reami is just not a good director in my opnion,mans made two great films like spiderman 2 and evil dead and the rest are average at best which is why Mom sucked also kevin gave him full creative control on that film
Bp2 is mid too
33rd times the charm eh
Black widow is the worst most disrespectful movie I’ve ever seen and it made me anti-marvel
Black widow is the worst most disrespectful movie I’ve ever seen and it made me anti-marvel