@@harrymindgameTV Nooooo I’ve had 3 Mpc OG X’s and the new SE and they all had some kind of malfunction! Your not the only one! Must owners just dont talk about it! 😮💨
Folks seem to believe that the new units cannot do what the older units could, but in fact, if you look at tear downs of the original units, you'd see there is nothing incredibly fascinating in the amplifier circuit. It is however voiced, theirs a slight roll off at 50 cycles, its decimated due to the devices bitdepth and theirs a limiter on the amplifier circuit (probably to stop the unit from saturating the converters) with a compensated 3db of gain reduction... Akais current gen MPCs are transparent, in fact Akai is using boutique AKM converters in these units. Not only are they best in class, but due to the AKM factory burning down a bit ago, these units have no choice but to be limited runs. The MPC X SE and the One MK II thats about to release, they must be in a warehouse somewhere, because the converters in them aren't made anymore, and it may be a long time before their made again (if ever). I imagine Akai decided for transparency because they want the machine to accurately rip the sounds off of other hardware. Having built in voicing in the amplifiers means coloring anything you put through it, for those who want to capture the sound of their hardware faithfully, thats a potential show stopper. so I see why Akai did it the way they did. Akai's mistake is not putting more research and development into their vintage emulations plugins, the ones built into their machines. If those faithfully recreated the original devices, no one would be complaining. My preliminary look into the situation have proven that a simple effects chain preset over the top of the main output is enough to get withing spitting distance of the older MPC units.. Akais vintage plugins do not do the classic units the justice they deserve.
Really appreciate the detailed breakdown of the reasons behind the potential differences and options in the sound. I totally agree with the fact that you could yourself choose your own signal chain to colour or modify the resulting sound in your own way. Looks like that will be the only option unless Akai Pro spring something special upon us.
The sound difference between new MPCs and Old is that new MPCs use digital save formats of 16 to 24 bit audio and thats it, no complexity in explanation needed it really is as simple as that. New MPCs use modern computers and they will never be able to be All Analog again, the idea is stupid because most people edit and master there MPC projects inside a DAW which only saves at 16 or 24bit audio so anything you recorded Analog from that old MPC is now going to be exactly the same fedelity as everything digital 16 to 24 bit.
@@HOLLASOUNDS There's more to it than decimation and the old MPCS use microcontrollers, they are computers too... Also, you wrote "anything you recorded Analog from that old MPC is now going to be exactly the same fidelity as everything digital 16 to 24 bit" No, thats simply not how this works, Youd record a truncated signal. If you record 16 bit into a 24 bit device, you will have 16 bit audio in a 24 bit format, the dynamics available in 24 bit audio will not be available. 24 bit audio has more dynamics by virtue of being able to read 24 bits at a time, which adds more steps between maximum and low volume. so 24 bit audio has more peaks and valleys, allowing for more dynamics, while 16 bit audio does not. There is voicing on the original units.. likely to compensate for the tech available those days, clipping into a dac made back when would amount to nothing nice.. unlike todays dacs that use methods of making the clipping less mangled and usable.
@@davidcache The audio while being played from the software is not restricted and its only when the file is digitally saved that it is restricted to 16 or 24 bit audio that is why in Reason DAW for example the audio dont clip, while audio is playing directly from the DAW before being saved. In order to get audio out of the old MPCs you would play the sound of each stem individually and then save each into a mixer or recording medium like tape, so the sound was not restricted to 16 or 24 bit. Now I could actually send the audio out of Reason and record that and capture that uncapped high fedelity and dynamic range by bypassing the digital save function in the DAW. This would be pointless to do with a modern MPC because they are sample bassed and all the Akai sample packs where saved digital at 16 to 24 bit on a computer. You will never get the sound of the old MPCs while also keeping the functionality of the software and all the Akai sample packs recorded at 16 or 24 bit.
@@HOLLASOUNDS You can't add the range that wasn't there before, you can dither, and add noise derived from the harmonics to represent the missing bit depth, but recording a 16bit signal into a 24bit file will result in a truncated signal. The decimation on the classics is a result of clocking, jitter, how audio is handled by the DMA, and obviously, bit depth. The discussion though is that the current gen MPC's don't hit as hard as the classics, which is undeniably true. On top of the noted decimation in signal, due to the available technology of the day, there was voicing added to the circuitry. I assume the voicing was added to avoid clipping the converters, to compensate for the limitations of its time.
Wow. Up to you in terms of choices out there. If it's plugins then I tend to go for the CLA-2A, or I sample the X into my ISLA S2400. Depends on time or what I want to achieve.
Even if you put a Analog out into the X it wont make any difference because the audio which Akai modern MPCs samples at is 16 or 24 bit digital audio all there sample packs and any sample you save and export out of the MPC software will be digital and aways 16 or 24 bit. Long story short the new MPCs can never sound like the Analog hardware of the past, unless it saves audio externally out of the device bypassing the MPC software, a device like that would cost at minimum £6000 to £8000. Also it should be noted that any audio from Analog will be converted to 16 or 24 bit audio in a PC or Mac DAW. Its actually almost impossible to save true high fedelity audio and get that to the customer who probably dont care anyway.
How can the MPC be the one to do the job when it doesnt work?Why would I spend $2200 for the MPC X and have error codes that I have to pay more to have fixed?Huh???? Akai should fix their flaws for free. I have 5 samplers, No Akais, and NONE of them have had any issues, except for my Ensoniq ASR10, which did not work when i got it home. Ensoniq replaced it with a brand new unit, case, and another sound library for FREE...I would just get the Akai S6000, S612, MPC 5000/3500,or the new MPC keys..
From what I understand from others, there was a batch of MPC's that had errors. I (and others) may have been caught up in that (most haven't had an issue with their's). I did mention also that you should probably start with one of the smaller ones (17:24) rather than dive into spending 2K. I have also mentioned, either here or in the past that this is the only MPC that i've ever had issues on and I've had many many Akai's. There is a world of choices out there for everyone to explore and see what suits.
@@harrymindgameTV Well I think the smallest I would go is my Polyend Tracker, and that's because it is so versatile..I already have the ASR10 and Roland MV8800,so I might deal with the MPC Keys, depending on how well it works with a PC. I will not tolerate spending $400 much less $2000 on defective gear.
Arrow thru the heart you not knowing the date of your mpc 3000 and having to look at your moog model d to say model D. You are punished to moog and mpc hell for 3 weeks 😂
Would you buy an Akai MPC X SE or LE (with analogue converters and a MPC 3000 or MPC 4000 sound) if the price point was $3500.00?
Analog converters wont change the sound because the audio is saved with the MPC software which is digital.
Yes
@@HOLLASOUNDS I should look into what Isla Instruments have done because even when In 16bit mode that thing bangs!
Stay blessed my brother
This is one of the best takes on this entire MPC discussion. Thanks for sharing. I’m Showing love all the way from NYC! Salute King!
Thanks. Appreciated the feedback👊🏾👊🏾
Im glad you mentioned that the X errors! And it does error and freeze 🥶 a-lot.
Thought I was the only one that had this!
@@harrymindgameTV Nooooo I’ve had 3 Mpc OG X’s and the new SE and they all had some kind of malfunction! Your not the only one! Must owners just dont talk about it! 😮💨
Focus on making good art with what ever you have. Its the man behind the machines overall.
So true indeed.
Love the honesty and the chat, man thanks for opening up your room!
No prob at all. Great to talk about the music tech, past and present.
It would be nice to have more outputs in this case to more easily record all tracks out with that analog sound.
It is an interesting situation. I am very new to making beats. My MPC X SE arrives tomorrow and I am looking forward to it.
Let us know how you get on with the X SE
I’d be happy to buy at that price if it had the audio enhancements.
Totally agree!
Folks seem to believe that the new units cannot do what the older units could, but in fact, if you look at tear downs of the original units, you'd see there is nothing incredibly fascinating in the amplifier circuit. It is however voiced, theirs a slight roll off at 50 cycles, its decimated due to the devices bitdepth and theirs a limiter on the amplifier circuit (probably to stop the unit from saturating the converters) with a compensated 3db of gain reduction...
Akais current gen MPCs are transparent, in fact Akai is using boutique AKM converters in these units. Not only are they best in class, but due to the AKM factory burning down a bit ago, these units have no choice but to be limited runs. The MPC X SE and the One MK II thats about to release, they must be in a warehouse somewhere, because the converters in them aren't made anymore, and it may be a long time before their made again (if ever).
I imagine Akai decided for transparency because they want the machine to accurately rip the sounds off of other hardware. Having built in voicing in the amplifiers means coloring anything you put through it, for those who want to capture the sound of their hardware faithfully, thats a potential show stopper. so I see why Akai did it the way they did.
Akai's mistake is not putting more research and development into their vintage emulations plugins, the ones built into their machines. If those faithfully recreated the original devices, no one would be complaining. My preliminary look into the situation have proven that a simple effects chain preset over the top of the main output is enough to get withing spitting distance of the older MPC units..
Akais vintage plugins do not do the classic units the justice they deserve.
Really appreciate the detailed breakdown of the reasons behind the potential differences and options in the sound. I totally agree with the fact that you could yourself choose your own signal chain to colour or modify the resulting sound in your own way. Looks like that will be the only option unless Akai Pro spring something special upon us.
The sound difference between new MPCs and Old is that new MPCs use digital save formats of 16 to 24 bit audio and thats it, no complexity in explanation needed it really is as simple as that. New MPCs use modern computers and they will never be able to be All Analog again, the idea is stupid because most people edit and master there MPC projects inside a DAW which only saves at 16 or 24bit audio so anything you recorded Analog from that old MPC is now going to be exactly the same fedelity as everything digital 16 to 24 bit.
@@HOLLASOUNDS There's more to it than decimation and the old MPCS use microcontrollers, they are computers too...
Also, you wrote "anything you recorded Analog from that old MPC is now going to be exactly the same fidelity as everything digital 16 to 24 bit"
No, thats simply not how this works, Youd record a truncated signal. If you record 16 bit into a 24 bit device, you will have 16 bit audio in a 24 bit format, the dynamics available in 24 bit audio will not be available. 24 bit audio has more dynamics by virtue of being able to read 24 bits at a time, which adds more steps between maximum and low volume.
so 24 bit audio has more peaks and valleys, allowing for more dynamics, while 16 bit audio does not.
There is voicing on the original units.. likely to compensate for the tech available those days, clipping into a dac made back when would amount to nothing nice.. unlike todays dacs that use methods of making the clipping less mangled and usable.
@@davidcache The audio while being played from the software is not restricted and its only when the file is digitally saved that it is restricted to 16 or 24 bit audio that is why in Reason DAW for example the audio dont clip, while audio is playing directly from the DAW before being saved. In order to get audio out of the old MPCs you would play the sound of each stem individually and then save each into a mixer or recording medium like tape, so the sound was not restricted to 16 or 24 bit. Now I could actually send the audio out of Reason and record that and capture that uncapped high fedelity and dynamic range by bypassing the digital save function in the DAW. This would be pointless to do with a modern MPC because they are sample bassed and all the Akai sample packs where saved digital at 16 to 24 bit on a computer. You will never get the sound of the old MPCs while also keeping the functionality of the software and all the Akai sample packs recorded at 16 or 24 bit.
@@HOLLASOUNDS You can't add the range that wasn't there before, you can dither, and add noise derived from the harmonics to represent the missing bit depth, but recording a 16bit signal into a 24bit file will result in a truncated signal. The decimation on the classics is a result of clocking, jitter, how audio is handled by the DMA, and obviously, bit depth.
The discussion though is that the current gen MPC's don't hit as hard as the classics, which is undeniably true. On top of the noted decimation in signal, due to the available technology of the day, there was voicing added to the circuitry. I assume the voicing was added to avoid clipping the converters, to compensate for the limitations of its time.
What can you run the mpcx through to intensify the bass sound?
Wow. Up to you in terms of choices out there. If it's plugins then I tend to go for the CLA-2A, or I sample the X into my ISLA S2400. Depends on time or what I want to achieve.
Even if you put a Analog out into the X it wont make any difference because the audio which Akai modern MPCs samples at is 16 or 24 bit digital audio all there sample packs and any sample you save and export out of the MPC software will be digital and aways 16 or 24 bit. Long story short the new MPCs can never sound like the Analog hardware of the past, unless it saves audio externally out of the device bypassing the MPC software, a device like that would cost at minimum £6000 to £8000. Also it should be noted that any audio from Analog will be converted to 16 or 24 bit audio in a PC or Mac DAW. Its actually almost impossible to save true high fedelity audio and get that to the customer who probably dont care anyway.
How can the MPC be the one to do the job when it doesnt work?Why would I spend $2200 for the MPC X and have error codes that I have to pay more to have fixed?Huh???? Akai should fix their flaws for free. I have 5 samplers, No Akais, and NONE of them have had any issues, except for my Ensoniq ASR10, which did not work when i got it home. Ensoniq replaced it with a brand new unit, case, and another sound library for FREE...I would just get the Akai S6000, S612, MPC 5000/3500,or the new MPC keys..
From what I understand from others, there was a batch of MPC's that had errors. I (and others) may have been caught up in that (most haven't had an issue with their's). I did mention also that you should probably start with one of the smaller ones (17:24) rather than dive into spending 2K. I have also mentioned, either here or in the past that this is the only MPC that i've ever had issues on and I've had many many Akai's. There is a world of choices out there for everyone to explore and see what suits.
@@harrymindgameTV Well I think the smallest I would go is my Polyend Tracker, and that's because it is so versatile..I already have the ASR10 and Roland MV8800,so I might deal with the MPC Keys, depending on how well it works with a PC. I will not tolerate spending $400 much less $2000 on defective gear.
Nonsense
Arrow thru the heart you not knowing the date of your mpc 3000 and having to look at your moog model d to say model D.
You are punished to moog and mpc hell for 3 weeks 😂
🤣🤣🤣. I know. Was tempted to edit it but nah. Big slap on the wrist. I had a moment!