Complicated nonsense for sure. Most Strads loose out to other violins of good make and composition when entered into hearing quality sound by blind sound tests.
Stradivarius used timbers that were over 250 years old most of the 250 year old trees have long gone. Only in the Balkans and Carpathian Mountains trees that are left so commanding high prices . Sadly due to pressure trees are harvested at 60 to 80 years but never have the same qualities as when Stradivarius used .
Thank you for sharing this interesting work! I'm just wondering - shouldn't it read "in ligno veritas" (truth lies in the wood), as "in lignum" means "against the wood" or "into the wood/forest"?
It would be interesting to find out if the dataset could reveal / predict the overall size of the spruce trees used in making these violins by analyzing the rings on the instruments; and further predict which specific sections of the trees the wood would have come from that was used for making the specific parts of the instruments. I would love to know...
Hi Clara, based on thousands of tests, it appears that most of the trees used in the first half of the 18th century were actually quite small (probably many less than 30 cms in diameter). The latest rings are therefore relatively close to the bark or outside of the tree and the oldest near the centre of the tree. The round billets would be split in a "cake-like" fashion, into wedges, just big enough to make half of the soundboard. 2 wedges, more often than not, from the same tree would then be jointed together to make these 2 piece fronts. Processing the wood in that manner, there was very little wastage. There are a few exceptions, but it seems that this was the procedure adopted by most makers in Italy at the time. Very few violin fronts were made from larger trees big enough to produce one-piece fronts. These would need to have been over 45-50 cms in diameter). Before 1700, this was far more common than after ( in Italy). Kind regards, Peter
Thank you SO much for such detailed explanations of your statistical analysis. God created the entire universe and especially humanity on His rule of complimentary opposites. To take such divine inspirations and apply them masterfully to their work is mind-blowing. To use the youngest part of the tree with the most obtuse ring structure onto the part of the violin with the most acute curves, and then to do the opposite with the oldest part of the tree with the most acute ring structure onto the most obtuse curves of the violin... explains so much about how and why Stradivari would use God's rule of complimentary opposites in building the acoustical value of his instruments! It's the use of tension and resistance to perfection and who could think of that but a master craftsman. WOW! And it doesn't even end there... I am thoroughly blown away by this video! Thank you Mr. Ratcliff!!
What use of the violins which won't sing but were confined into the glass cabinets in museums by being totally dumb!🤔 There are wonderful violinists who are dreaming of a stradivarious or a guanarious, throughout the world. !
This is aamazing...having built 60 violins, violas and celli...the mixing of two differnt trees to accommodate the bass side...and the trebel side ia brilliant and intuitive to a spiritual degree in Stradivarius's Catholic world...thankyou...a retired award winning master luthier...informative...I have held a number of Strads..including one of his 2 guitars...in Oberlin SD before they were put into enclosures in 1988?...so fortunate....I created an authentic baroque strad copy..to spec...a lovely beast.
I can replicate Wilhelmj 1724 treble vs Grissino Meyer's Messiah chronology, and the t value is 8.1 instead of 11.2. This also happens to me with other results, always 3 points less. What could be the reason? Thank you Peter for your valuable contribution
Franco, Have you got accurate measurements of the Wilhelmj, the t-value will be affected if you don't. And also, the ring pattern of the Messiah varies somewhat according to where on the front you test as there is quite a bot of inner tree variations in that wood.
@@peterratcliff1020 So is it possible that measurements from images with tailpieces may give slight differences in numbers? the Whilelmj image is hd from Tarisio (I have a subscription) I follow the measurement rules: I don't use TSAP but CDendro, could it be a difference between software? Sorry but I don't want to be at your level, just curiosity. thanks
@@MrFranscoz CDendro use the same algorithm TVBP (Baillie & Pilcher) as TSAP so if that's what you are set on ( as there are other T-value formulas in CDendro and TSAP) you will get the same whether on CDendro or TSAP. As I said, it will be the measurements. I have 6 different sets of Measurements for the Messiah, and the ones available online are not the ones giving the best results. As mentioned, there are variations of ring measurements on the wood of the Messiah, which can lower the correlation levels. Re-do your measurements and create a mean of several sets, and you may(?) find that the t-value is boosted.
Maybe, just maybe, everything would be more credible if Mr. Ratcliff and other self acclaimed dendrochronologist would open up their own databases to the public. Like reseachers do. It is an insolent thing to say, that master chronologies are an dendrochronologist's "backbone of their analyses" and follow with, but their are "inadequate".
Hello Certelis, Yes, the Master chronologies are useful, but very incomplete, as they only cover certain areas at certain elevations, and since as tree-ring growth response can vary quite significant according to its altitude, many regions/valleys are far from being catered for in the information supplied by Master chronologies. Thanks also for putting words into my mouth, as I have never said "my references are better, but you have to pay for them and will never get to see them, You have to believe me.'". Had you contacted me or had any dealings with me, you would know that I am always delighted to share any data with colleagues. As any of my "violin advisors" whoever they may be. Since as this is my JOB, and that I, too, have to occasionally pay rent, and also eat, yes , I do charge for me services. I hope that's all right with you. What's your job? and who pays YOU? Do YOU published ALL your data ( if that's what you're into) that actually pays your rent, for all competitors to see? When I get time, I will published some of the data (as I have already done in the past, by the way). Interestingly, since the video, several more same-tree-connections have been identified, with contemporary instruments, but not by Stradivari, including one by a member of the Rugeri family. Who are you? anyway?
@@peterratcliff1020 Dear Mr. Ratcliff, i am slightly astounded by the emotional response (All-Caps?), since it does not adress the issue at hand. I am not criticising the fact that you make a living with what you are doing. I am concerned about how science is used to mask personal expertise, since the samples of reference (instruments measured by you, I guess) you are citing here and in your publications very strongly are not access- and verifiable by the public or at least by researchers. Do not get me wrong, this is nothing personal. To your credit, you provided at least some examples of your data via NCEI. So this is more about the whole field of self acclaimed dendrochronologist in the stringed-instrument market and what will come crumbling down in the next few years. Who am I, should not really matter, since that is the problem with all of the expertise on violins. It is not about a scientific consensus, it is more about who has a certain reputation, which no one seems to question. Once again, this is not about you personally and as a peace-offer, I will take down the words I seem to have put in your mouth, which was not my intention. With the critic on the private databases, when claiming scientific methods, I have to stand by. And yes, my findings as a researcher are out in the public, some of them as contributions to Master Chronologies, the depiction of bowed instruments on the Luthiers Library and papers at several institutions about historical instruments. An yes I pay rent and yes I am making a living without hiding my findings from 'competitors'. Since I have your attention: how do you compensate tree-ring inclination on bigger instruments? Since even on the most radial cut bellies, there is deviation. With best regards, Josef Jakob Certelis
Honest and informative. Of course these tests can never tell us if Vuillaume bought unassembled components or raw wood from Tarisio's stash and cobbled it into the Messiah.
@@peterratcliff1020 Nope, all conjecture. But what I've always wondered is did Stradivari keep an inventory of violins in his shop window or did he only build to order. If the latter, then how did this violin remain unsold in Stradivari's lifetime?
From the dendrochronology, are you able to determine the general location of the trees that Stradivari used? Is it high altitude Italian Dolomites near Trento (slopes of the Fiemme Valley perhaps), or the mid-altitude foothills near Cremona, or somewhere else entirely?
I am able to reproduce the chronology of the Messiah treble side from a fairly low res digital image with correlation .985 to the dataset in the ITRDB. However, I am apparently unable to reproduce the chronology of the ex-Wilhelmj treble side derived from an image of much higher resolution. That chronology looks much different in my case from what you show here and consequently the results for Messiah vs. ex-Wilhelmj do not replicate in my analyses. Given the high accuracy with which the Messiah chronology can be reproduced from a digital image, I consider unlikely that I derived the ex-Wilhelmj chronology incorrectly.
Then maybe you are measuring the other (1725) ex-Wilhelmj? It is the treble side (only) of the 1724 ex-Wilhelmj that cross-matches the treble side of the Messiah particularly well. My data-series of the treble side of the Wilhelmj actually look extremely similar (as it should) to data independently collected by another specialist in the field on the same violin, so I suspect you have a mistake somewhere.
@@peterratcliff1020 Unfortunately, I cannot find a good enough image of that violin in the public domain. I'm going to try others. Thanks for the clarification.
@@peterratcliff1020 Thank you, Peter. I managed to obtain an image. I am working on a study that mainly uses simulations and bootstrap analyses of European forests. Some of the results are relevant to your work or may be of related interest. I am happy to share a copy once the write-up is in good shape.
It’s not impossible that annular ring patterns within the same log would vary greatly, as southern exposure may influence one side as well as harsh cold might slow growth on the opposing side. That’s just my cheap coffee table hunch at this point; subject to change.
Ring patterns within one log can indeed vary, especially so when trees are growing on a slope. Essentially, in these cases, the trees try to grow vertically. This creates significant tension within the log, which produces wider rings on one side and narrower ones on the other. This would be called compression wood (or tension wood in hardwoods). The pith or the oldest parts of the rings, normally situated at the symmetrical centre of the log can be seriously displaced towards one side in "reaction" wood. Although your idea sounds interesting about exposure, I do not believe this has much effect on the circumferential variations of a single tree's inner growth.
Very interesting, but a little to difficult for me. I am not a mathematician or a physicist or a biologian, and I am also not a violin maker. The referent stucks really very deeply in his matter. That is good, naturally, but sometimes a little too difficult for people like me who haven`t learned or studied any of the subjects I have mentioned here.
Why this violin carries the name "Messiah"? Has it something to do with the oratory by Handel? It sounds so maniac or blasphemic for me. Anyhow, it is odd or strange. I think that, unfortunately my understanding of oral English in speeches is not so good. I am German. Therefore, excuse me because of my stupid questions.
It’s called Messiah because someone in the 19th century said that it was “like the Messiah” because a trader/merchant always talked about owning it, but it never appeared. Then after that merchant’s death it appeared in the hands of JB Vuillaume. Because JB Vuillaume was both a savvy trader and great violin maker and copyist, the question is: did he really acquire the Messiah with the merchant’s estate or did he just make the violin himself and pass it off as a Stradivarius?
fake accent too, have to admit he sounds knowledgeable and respectful of the scientific principles, but that fake image he gives off is very off putting
@@kanatsizkanatli Sorry my accent doesn't suit you. I was born in Switzerland and came to the UK age 18, my accent is what it became after spending all this time here.
Yes good day my name is MANUEL LEONOR from the Philipines i inherited the 1716 stradivarius violin from my father which was a birthday gift of my grand grand mother for my father. How can you help me to dispose this instrument? Im planning to show it to you the authencicity and eager to visit your place after this pandemic. Kindly communicate with regarding this matter if your interested and really appreciate it. Thank you so much .
Very interesting research. But it doesn’t account for the genius of Stradivari. As a contemporary violin maker I don’t find this useful to me as a maker. I can not at age 73 get twenty pieces of spruce from the same tree in Italy or Austria. Great research but not really useful for a maker in 2020. Thank you. But we don’t know how the messiah sounds. I saw the original. It’s sunk in on one dude - the bass bar side and the instrument has a darker red varnish on top and more orange red on the back. It is the model I follow for aesthetic reasons Thanks fir this research .
No, we don't know the felling date, but we can estimate it, based on the various instruments made from that tree. Currently, the very latest ring available for that tree, actually present on a violin is from 1701 (If I remember correctly) and the earliest instrument made from that tree is dated 1710. This span of 9 years is not at all unusual when it comes to Italian instruments. I actually do not believe that makers "seasoned" their wood, as we understand today. The reason is almost certainly, that fresh wood was split into small wedges. These would become dimensionally stable within months, and therefore usable.
@@peterratcliff1020 Thank you very much for these information. I think that violin makers of our days who make new instruments still split their wood stems to store and to work on them. It is simply practical.
I should suggest you redo this presentation using over laid photos of the growth rings of the instruments on your data base the old saying a picture speaks a thousand words Your speech is not close mic ed dis guard the back ground music the subject is to important for this poor presentation
As tree growth is NEVER perfectly concentric, overlaying pictures would not show what you want to see, which is why graphs are shown. I am sorry you find it a poor presentation, several eminent dendrochronologists beg to differ. I take your point about the music, which others have also made. This was a totally solo effort and should I make another video, these points will be considered.
Your patience with the criticisms is remarkable. I know it's held to be essential these days that anyone should be able to criticise anything, but thank you whole-heartedly for the video.
Thanks for your comment, @@dionlindsay2 , I don't mind criticisms, especially intelligent thoughts and suggestions. The res speaks for itself. All the best, P
Imagine if Stradivari could see how thoroughly his violins are being examined today. I think he would be amazed and confused at why there is so much controversy.
He would probably look at them, and say in Italian, it's just good maple, very good spruce, and these old crinkly hands. Of course you want to know the chemical process. I won't tell you. My knowledge is mine. I can see that you know enough. You have the secret. Believe in what you know. Love what you know. And by all means, play these violins, that's why I made them. There my opinion of his thoughts.
@@patriciajrs46 È solo un buon acero, un ottimo abete e queste vecchie mani rugose. Ovviamente vuoi conoscere il processo chimico. non te lo dico. La mia conoscenza è mia. Vedo che ne sai abbastanza. Hai il segreto. Credi in ciò che sai. Ama ciò che sai. E con tutti i mezzi, suona questi violini, ecco perché li ho fatti.
a great presentation and very convincing!. my only kind request as a musician:i kept going back mid argument... please lose the music because I kept finding myself losing your train of thought as i have been trained to concentrate on the musical sounds rather than speech...
I have no doubt that the Messie does exist. Long story. However,I suspect that the violin seen in the Ashmolean museum is a very very good copy. The real thing is under lock and key
@@simonscott5427 Hi Simon, All the tests are based on the tree ring measurements taken from the violin in the Ashmolean violin, so I am not quite sure what you base your comments on?
MUST we listen to this music? seriously, it is in the way!
Complicated nonsense for sure. Most Strads loose out to other violins of good make and composition when entered into hearing quality sound by blind sound tests.
Stradivarius used timbers that were over 250 years old most of the 250 year old trees have long gone. Only in the Balkans and Carpathian Mountains trees that are left so commanding high prices . Sadly due to pressure trees are harvested at 60 to 80 years but never have the same qualities as when Stradivarius used .
Could have told us more about the violin!
Great detective work! Thanks for the presentation.
hi Peter this is a very interesting and great report I really enjoyed it very much
Thank you for sharing this interesting work! I'm just wondering - shouldn't it read "in ligno veritas" (truth lies in the wood), as "in lignum" means "against the wood" or "into the wood/forest"?
Well. I can put the tone wood debt in the guitar community to bed. Turns out,........it matters.
It would be interesting to find out if the dataset could reveal / predict the overall size of the spruce trees used in making these violins by analyzing the rings on the instruments; and further predict which specific sections of the trees the wood would have come from that was used for making the specific parts of the instruments. I would love to know...
Hi Clara, based on thousands of tests, it appears that most of the trees used in the first half of the 18th century were actually quite small (probably many less than 30 cms in diameter). The latest rings are therefore relatively close to the bark or outside of the tree and the oldest near the centre of the tree. The round billets would be split in a "cake-like" fashion, into wedges, just big enough to make half of the soundboard. 2 wedges, more often than not, from the same tree would then be jointed together to make these 2 piece fronts. Processing the wood in that manner, there was very little wastage. There are a few exceptions, but it seems that this was the procedure adopted by most makers in Italy at the time. Very few violin fronts were made from larger trees big enough to produce one-piece fronts. These would need to have been over 45-50 cms in diameter). Before 1700, this was far more common than after ( in Italy). Kind regards, Peter
Thank you SO much for such detailed explanations of your statistical analysis. God created the entire universe and especially humanity on His rule of complimentary opposites. To take such divine inspirations and apply them masterfully to their work is mind-blowing. To use the youngest part of the tree with the most obtuse ring structure onto the part of the violin with the most acute curves, and then to do the opposite with the oldest part of the tree with the most acute ring structure onto the most obtuse curves of the violin... explains so much about how and why Stradivari would use God's rule of complimentary opposites in building the acoustical value of his instruments! It's the use of tension and resistance to perfection and who could think of that but a master craftsman. WOW! And it doesn't even end there... I am thoroughly blown away by this video! Thank you Mr. Ratcliff!!
What use of the violins which won't sing but were confined into the glass cabinets in museums by being totally dumb!🤔 There are wonderful violinists who are dreaming of a stradivarious or a guanarious, throughout the world. !
This is aamazing...having built 60 violins, violas and celli...the mixing of two differnt trees to accommodate the bass side...and the trebel side ia brilliant and intuitive to a spiritual degree in Stradivarius's Catholic world...thankyou...a retired award winning master luthier...informative...I have held a number of Strads..including one of his 2 guitars...in Oberlin SD before they were put into enclosures in 1988?...so fortunate....I created an authentic baroque strad copy..to spec...a lovely beast.
I can replicate Wilhelmj 1724 treble vs Grissino Meyer's Messiah chronology, and the t value is 8.1 instead of 11.2. This also happens to me with other results, always 3 points less. What could be the reason? Thank you Peter for your valuable contribution
Franco, Have you got accurate measurements of the Wilhelmj, the t-value will be affected if you don't. And also, the ring pattern of the Messiah varies somewhat according to where on the front you test as there is quite a bot of inner tree variations in that wood.
@@peterratcliff1020 So is it possible that measurements from images with tailpieces may give slight differences in numbers? the Whilelmj image is hd from Tarisio (I have a subscription) I follow the measurement rules: I don't use TSAP but CDendro, could it be a difference between software? Sorry but I don't want to be at your level, just curiosity. thanks
@@MrFranscoz CDendro use the same algorithm TVBP (Baillie & Pilcher) as TSAP so if that's what you are set on ( as there are other T-value formulas in CDendro and TSAP) you will get the same whether on CDendro or TSAP. As I said, it will be the measurements. I have 6 different sets of Measurements for the Messiah, and the ones available online are not the ones giving the best results. As mentioned, there are variations of ring measurements on the wood of the Messiah, which can lower the correlation levels. Re-do your measurements and create a mean of several sets, and you may(?) find that the t-value is boosted.
@@peterratcliff1020 thanks Peter.
I would say redo this video and turn the music down, or as some people have suggested, eliminate it all together.
Do you actually take a scraping from the instrument? Doesn't that mess up the violin?
come contattare peter Ratclif
Ciao Giovanni, scrivimi tramite sito violin-dendrochronology.com/contact
@@peterratcliff1020 ok! Peter BUONA DOMEN8CA
Viva el Maestro A. Stradivarius !
Maybe, just maybe, everything would be more credible if Mr. Ratcliff and other self acclaimed dendrochronologist would open up their own databases to the public. Like reseachers do. It is an insolent thing to say, that master chronologies are an dendrochronologist's "backbone of their analyses" and follow with, but their are "inadequate".
Hello Certelis, Yes, the Master chronologies are useful, but very incomplete, as they only cover certain areas at certain elevations, and since as tree-ring growth response can vary quite significant according to its altitude, many regions/valleys are far from being catered for in the information supplied by Master chronologies. Thanks also for putting words into my mouth, as I have never said "my references are better, but you have to pay for them and will never get to see them, You have to believe me.'". Had you contacted me or had any dealings with me, you would know that I am always delighted to share any data with colleagues. As any of my "violin advisors" whoever they may be. Since as this is my JOB, and that I, too, have to occasionally pay rent, and also eat, yes , I do charge for me services. I hope that's all right with you. What's your job? and who pays YOU? Do YOU published ALL your data ( if that's what you're into) that actually pays your rent, for all competitors to see? When I get time, I will published some of the data (as I have already done in the past, by the way). Interestingly, since the video, several more same-tree-connections have been identified, with contemporary instruments, but not by Stradivari, including one by a member of the Rugeri family. Who are you? anyway?
@@peterratcliff1020 Dear Mr. Ratcliff, i am slightly astounded by the emotional response (All-Caps?), since it does not adress the issue at hand. I am not criticising the fact that you make a living with what you are doing. I am concerned about how science is used to mask personal expertise, since the samples of reference (instruments measured by you, I guess) you are citing here and in your publications very strongly are not access- and verifiable by the public or at least by researchers. Do not get me wrong, this is nothing personal. To your credit, you provided at least some examples of your data via NCEI. So this is more about the whole field of self acclaimed dendrochronologist in the stringed-instrument market and what will come crumbling down in the next few years. Who am I, should not really matter, since that is the problem with all of the expertise on violins. It is not about a scientific consensus, it is more about who has a certain reputation, which no one seems to question. Once again, this is not about you personally and as a peace-offer, I will take down the words I seem to have put in your mouth, which was not my intention. With the critic on the private databases, when claiming scientific methods, I have to stand by. And yes, my findings as a researcher are out in the public, some of them as contributions to Master Chronologies, the depiction of bowed instruments on the Luthiers Library and papers at several institutions about historical instruments. An yes I pay rent and yes I am making a living without hiding my findings from 'competitors'. Since I have your attention: how do you compensate tree-ring inclination on bigger instruments? Since even on the most radial cut bellies, there is deviation. With best regards, Josef Jakob Certelis
Tenho um modelo 1716 pensa num som reprica fabricado a mao 2010
Tenho um 2010
Am1 din1737 sale
Honest and informative. Of course these tests can never tell us if Vuillaume bought unassembled components or raw wood from Tarisio's stash and cobbled it into the Messiah.
Did Tarisio have a stash of raw wood from Stradivari's shop? I don't think there is any evidence to that effect.
@@peterratcliff1020 Nope, all conjecture. But what I've always wondered is did Stradivari keep an inventory of violins in his shop window or did he only build to order. If the latter, then how did this violin remain unsold in Stradivari's lifetime?
Why do you say Vuillaume, when Stradvari made this violin?
I noticed that the notches in the F holes line up with the intonation points for the bridge. Is that on purpose?
Yes, I believe it is. I watched a geometric video on his violins and they said it was not random, but geometry, science.
W.O.W.
From the dendrochronology, are you able to determine the general location of the trees that Stradivari used? Is it high altitude Italian Dolomites near Trento (slopes of the Fiemme Valley perhaps), or the mid-altitude foothills near Cremona, or somewhere else entirely?
Very good question. Also how long was the wood dried before he used it? Some makers say 5 years or more, some say 10 or more.
I believe that I read an article that said it was in the Fiemme Valley.
I am able to reproduce the chronology of the Messiah treble side from a fairly low res digital image with correlation .985 to the dataset in the ITRDB. However, I am apparently unable to reproduce the chronology of the ex-Wilhelmj treble side derived from an image of much higher resolution. That chronology looks much different in my case from what you show here and consequently the results for Messiah vs. ex-Wilhelmj do not replicate in my analyses. Given the high accuracy with which the Messiah chronology can be reproduced from a digital image, I consider unlikely that I derived the ex-Wilhelmj chronology incorrectly.
Then maybe you are measuring the other (1725) ex-Wilhelmj? It is the treble side (only) of the 1724 ex-Wilhelmj that cross-matches the treble side of the Messiah particularly well. My data-series of the treble side of the Wilhelmj actually look extremely similar (as it should) to data independently collected by another specialist in the field on the same violin, so I suspect you have a mistake somewhere.
@@peterratcliff1020 oy vey, that would be it. now i have to find the second.
@@peterratcliff1020 Unfortunately, I cannot find a good enough image of that violin in the public domain. I'm going to try others. Thanks for the clarification.
@@danielmalter3373 Good picture of it on Cozio, if you're a subscriber
@@peterratcliff1020 Thank you, Peter. I managed to obtain an image. I am working on a study that mainly uses simulations and bootstrap analyses of European forests. Some of the results are relevant to your work or may be of related interest. I am happy to share a copy once the write-up is in good shape.
Great video and thanks for the highly interesting lesson!
It’s not impossible that annular ring patterns within the same log would vary greatly, as southern exposure may influence one side as well as harsh cold might slow growth on the opposing side. That’s just my cheap coffee table hunch at this point; subject to change.
Ring patterns within one log can indeed vary, especially so when trees are growing on a slope. Essentially, in these cases, the trees try to grow vertically. This creates significant tension within the log, which produces wider rings on one side and narrower ones on the other. This would be called compression wood (or tension wood in hardwoods). The pith or the oldest parts of the rings, normally situated at the symmetrical centre of the log can be seriously displaced towards one side in "reaction" wood. Although your idea sounds interesting about exposure, I do not believe this has much effect on the circumferential variations of a single tree's inner growth.
@@peterratcliff1020 Very interesting. Thank you.
@@patriciajrs46 Thanks Patricia, I thought it was too! and there is a lot more since the video was done, maybe a book one day...
@@peterratcliff1020 Congrats. I hope you do write the book. Make sure to include photos. Good luck.
Very interesting, but a little to difficult for me. I am not a mathematician or a physicist or a biologian, and I am also not a violin maker. The referent stucks really very deeply in his matter. That is good, naturally, but sometimes a little too difficult for people like me who haven`t learned or studied any of the subjects I have mentioned here.
Why this violin carries the name "Messiah"? Has it something to do with the oratory by Handel? It sounds so maniac or blasphemic for me. Anyhow, it is odd or strange. I think that, unfortunately my understanding of oral English in speeches is not so good. I am German. Therefore, excuse me because of my stupid questions.
It’s called Messiah because someone in the 19th century said that it was “like the Messiah” because a trader/merchant always talked about owning it, but it never appeared. Then after that merchant’s death it appeared in the hands of JB Vuillaume. Because JB Vuillaume was both a savvy trader and great violin maker and copyist, the question is: did he really acquire the Messiah with the merchant’s estate or did he just make the violin himself and pass it off as a Stradivarius?
@@danielmalter3373 That is the question, now isn't it.
I wish I had a Date with that Violin!!;
whys this guy dressed like a chef
fake accent too, have to admit he sounds knowledgeable and respectful of the scientific principles, but that fake image he gives off is very off putting
@@kanatsizkanatli Sorry my accent doesn't suit you. I was born in Switzerland and came to the UK age 18, my accent is what it became after spending all this time here.
Yes good day my name is MANUEL LEONOR from the Philipines i inherited the 1716 stradivarius violin from my father which was a birthday gift of my grand grand mother for my father. How can you help me to dispose this instrument? Im planning to show it to you the authencicity and eager to visit your place after this pandemic. Kindly communicate with regarding this matter if your interested and really appreciate it. Thank you so much .
Is it made of acacia wood?
One side
Very interesting research. But it doesn’t account for the genius of Stradivari. As a contemporary violin maker I don’t find this useful to me as a maker. I can not at age 73 get twenty pieces of spruce from the same tree in Italy or Austria. Great research but not really useful for a maker in 2020. Thank you. But we don’t know how the messiah sounds. I saw the original. It’s sunk in on one dude - the bass bar side and the instrument has a darker red varnish on top and more orange red on the back. It is the model I follow for aesthetic reasons Thanks fir this research .
Thank you Peter for the very detailed scientific and informative content.. Thanks a lot...
Do you know the date the trees were felled?...thus we will know how many years the wood dried. Thanks for the presentation
No, we don't know the felling date, but we can estimate it, based on the various instruments made from that tree. Currently, the very latest ring available for that tree, actually present on a violin is from 1701 (If I remember correctly) and the earliest instrument made from that tree is dated 1710. This span of 9 years is not at all unusual when it comes to Italian instruments. I actually do not believe that makers "seasoned" their wood, as we understand today. The reason is almost certainly, that fresh wood was split into small wedges. These would become dimensionally stable within months, and therefore usable.
@@peterratcliff1020 Thank you very much for these information. I think that violin makers of our days who make new instruments still split their wood stems to store and to work on them. It is simply practical.
French ?
It sounds great with my phone lying on its tummy . It curbs all music ..
I wish I had then neck must be at the cloverbar dump.
???? No sense at all.
This is fascinating-Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Did he say Messiah! I fell asleep half way through and awoken to 1717 discoveries, great voice for relaxation when chilling on the couch....Messiah!
How random is this
I should suggest you redo this presentation using over laid photos of the growth rings of the instruments on your data base the old saying a picture speaks a thousand words Your speech is not close mic ed dis guard the back ground music the subject is to important for this poor presentation
As tree growth is NEVER perfectly concentric, overlaying pictures would not show what you want to see, which is why graphs are shown. I am sorry you find it a poor presentation, several eminent dendrochronologists beg to differ. I take your point about the music, which others have also made. This was a totally solo effort and should I make another video, these points will be considered.
Your patience with the criticisms is remarkable. I know it's held to be essential these days that anyone should be able to criticise anything, but thank you whole-heartedly for the video.
Thanks for your comment, @@dionlindsay2 , I don't mind criticisms, especially intelligent thoughts and suggestions. The res speaks for itself. All the best, P
This video would be better without the background music. It's distracting. Or maybe I'm too easily distracted.
Les comparto algunos ejercicios de Arco para violinistas m.ruclips.net/video/J1W6DmgnDX8/видео.html
Imagine if Stradivari could see how thoroughly his violins are being examined today. I think he would be amazed and confused at why there is so much controversy.
Maybe He would regard it as a total waste of time....
@@101stuey He may very well work on new violins and wonder how much the price would be in an auction 🦉
He would probably look at them, and say in Italian, it's just good maple, very good spruce, and these old crinkly hands. Of course you want to know the chemical process. I won't tell you. My knowledge is mine. I can see that you know enough. You have the secret. Believe in what you know. Love what you know. And by all means, play these violins, that's why I made them. There my opinion of his thoughts.
@@patriciajrs46 È solo un buon acero, un ottimo abete e queste vecchie mani rugose. Ovviamente vuoi conoscere il processo chimico. non te lo dico. La mia conoscenza è mia. Vedo che ne sai abbastanza. Hai il segreto. Credi in ciò che sai. Ama ciò che sai. E con tutti i mezzi, suona questi violini, ecco perché li ho fatti.
@@bobadams179 My phone won't let me translate this one. Sorry. I wish you could tell me, in English.
a great presentation and very convincing!. my only kind request as a musician:i kept going back mid argument... please lose the music because I kept finding myself losing your train of thought as i have been trained to concentrate on the musical sounds rather than speech...
Please share video if you find it useful, informative or revealing !
I have no doubt that the Messie does exist. Long story. However,I suspect that the violin seen in the Ashmolean museum is a very very good copy. The real thing is under lock and key
@@simonscott5427 Hi Simon, All the tests are based on the tree ring measurements taken from the violin in the Ashmolean violin, so I am not quite sure what you base your comments on?