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Definitely. Instead of a reverend girl we have a talkative reverend fetus. Paul kills the Baron (?), there is no Kwisatz Haderach, no supernatural ways nor weapons (??), a rather unpleasant Jessica (???), a reluctant Paul regarding his leadership (????). Dune part 2 was a great disappointment for me. Episodic, underdeveloped… the only one I liked was Chani.

I'd say it's the other way around. Alia was basically just along for the ride in the book, while the movie has her playing a direct part in forcing Paul on the path to galactic genocide

Bene Geseret can access their male memories but refuse it because it gives them great fear. In the books Paul says to Jessica to look but she tells him she can't, its too fearful. Alia was born without that fear, without an ego formed, she didn't have those walls. Thus abomination. She also had the Atreides wild genes and had limited presciences, although not nearly to the extent of Paul or Leto II.

Also the Baron while twisted is one most evolved humans. He is himself as much Atredies as he is Harkonnens. Only Leto the Second is metal stronger.

@@MrMackievelli thanks for refreshing my recollection

@@MrMackievelli I'm not sure... in the first book it also says, that it would kill them to look in the male past. Or am I mistaken? Maybe the Baron itendifies as a woman... this would solve the problem :-) But at least this dystopia Frank Herbert has not foreseen.

Read the books first. It will get you over the hump.

Only second to LoTRs in scope.

sci-fi*

@@Emucratic I don't want to offend anyone and therefore change the comment, but reading various discussions in various forums I saw that everything that includes magic or powers that go beyond even future science is considered fantasy. To be fair, a small majority of people define Dune as sci-fi. Thanks for the idea!

Give Ursula K Le Guin’s Hainish Cycle a shot! The Left Hand of Darkness is a masterpiece.

Their vanity and ego was their ultimate downfall to being in control of the empire. They thought by raising the kwisatz haderach in their control, that he would be subservient to the bene gesserit sisterhood and their agenda. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, Jessica went against the bene gesserit order and had Paul. She was supposed to only have daughters. She raises paul away from direct control of the sisterhood, but still training him in the ways of the bene gesserit.

@@buggalujuju The Kwisatz Haderach is someone who can see the future and the past and be in many places at once. It doesn't make any sense that they were planning to control him. How exactly would they do that when he would become far more powerful and intelligent that they were?

@@GizmoMaltese because their ego, vanity and arrogance allowed them to believe if they raised the kwisatz haderach under their control he would be easily controlled by them. The bene gesserit sisterhood didn't have presience so they could not see beyond their own arrogance. The bene gesserit sisterhood started out with good intentions, but of course the power they gained led to their corruption. Which is part of the point of the story. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

@@buggalujuju The only way for this to make sense is to avoid the word "control." There is no way they would be able to "control" a super being. What they believed is that their way was the right way and the super being would be on their side. Another theory I've heard is that they underestimated just how powerful the Kwisatz Haderach would be and in later books they don't want another Kwisatz because of that. What I don't like is how the Guild is left out of all this. Aren't they the most powerful group. Without them everyone is stuck on isolated planets whtout trade and spice.

@GizmoMaltese yes I know there is no logical way to control a super being. I'm not saying that the bene gesserit could have controlled him even if he was under their strict influence. Obviously, they wouldn't be able to do such a thing. What I'm saying is that due to their arrogance, the sisterhood believed they could manipulate anyone, including a super being. You said you were confused by why the sisterhood wanted to create a super being if they couldn't control him. I was offering you an answer to this according to the books. It's all because of ego, power, and arrogance that they were blinded to what actually would and did happen when breeding a kwisatz haderach. Although the Bene Gesserit did not gain control over the empire through the kwisatz haderach, they did accomplish the other goal of their agenda. Which was to breed a super human that would eventually lead to the golden path and the preservation of the human species. Even though Paul could not follow the golden path, his son did.

Definitely got way to confident in their abilities.

The Bene gesserit Mohiam (old woman) didn't know that Lady Jessica's father is Baron Vladimir the Duke of house Harkonnen. The original plan was Jessica is supposed to have a daughter, to marry off to the Harkonnens and that daughter will bore a son, the supposed to be Lisan Al-Gaib.

Very common thing amongst Royal Houses, even in actual history. The practice has happened for centuries in attempt to keep the bloodlines pure... Which was the opposite of what they were doing but they didn't know that lol

He's the Kwistaz Haderach. Maybe a KH as planned would have been even more mentally powerful, we will never know. (Spoiler: In the books, Leto II's prescient powers surpass Paul's). But the planned KH would have been under BG control - the BG having some unknown deep plan to obtain and raise the Atreides-Harkonnen child themselves and place it on the throne. The Emperor only has daughters, surely part of this plan. The Lisan-al Gaib is an artificial implanted legend, seeded on worlds across the galaxy so that BG operatives in trouble can use it to obtain sanctuary and support for themselves and any children they may have with them. Paul and Jessica find this legend on Arrakis. Jessica seizes the opportunity to exploit it, Paul is more reluctant. So at one level, there is no Lisan-al Gaib - its just a cynical myth. But the BG have their own messianic plan, and Paul is the KH. So he, uniquely, can fulfil the implanted prophecies. So the result of the BG's tinkering is a out of control KH with a fanatical army at his disposal. Even worse, he is on Arrakis, and so controls the Spice and thus all space travel and commerce. No human has ever had such mental, spiritual, economic, military and political power all at once - will even a KH be able to control it?