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Specifically from the pistol, or in general?

@@WideZoneWarriors Specifically from pistol

@ I haven’t, but I believe I’ve seen it done. I’m sure it’s possible. Probably not as impactful as being in the gun though because the back isn’t going to be on the perimeter as quickly

I like the angles for it if the QB will get depth, but sidecar is definitely the path of least resistance. I’m not huge on sprint out though, so that’s why it didn’t make the video. Thanks for adding it in!

I like them for a few reasons. 1. Locking the box for RPOs 2. Changing defense’s run fits post-snap 3. Ensures that a back-side DE can’t be a QB player early in the down and track down a cutback later in the down

@@WideZoneWarriors Totally switching gears, we ran pistol for the most time last season but the play action element is just not as good compared to under center; comparing with shotgun this was only marginally better. in shotgun however what has been given up imo is the outside side running back is not aligned with center, of which the RB cannot read through the C-gap even with the PST stuffed the 5 into the PSG who ends up being bookended; may just better off to just ride the handoff all the way and cut it back to the BS C-gap (with a split flow probably)

Thanks! Planning on doing one of these for the gun and under center too so there’s a sort of compare and contrast between all 3 of them.

How so?

@@FlexileTheWolf I think the NFL can get away with it a bit because they can present route concepts and expect them to be covered relatively well/consistently such that they can still know the route to be thrown on the RPO, and they’re also world-class information processors, but especially in high school, I like one route and others (if multiple WRs) blocking for it.

I appreciate the compliment, especially getting put behind Peyton (huge Tennessee fan), and I have Palms on my list for this off-season!

In most Pro Style offenses, not every eligible receiver is included in the base progression. For example, take the Stick concept. From what I understand about the Air Raid, generally it’s read with the Go being the first read then eyes on the OLB to dictate throwing the Stick or Flat. In a Pro Style offense, the Go would be an Alert, meaning that if it’s not alerted, the QB isn’t going to read it. You can alert routes for any number of reasons. Most often, it’s based on the coverage, but sometimes it can be based off of a personnel matchup too. For that Go example, maybe I like my WR on a Go against a specific CB and not against the other. If he’s lined up on the weaker CB, I can Alert my QB to that route. He doesn’t have to throw it (though some coaches would say throw it to him no matter what if they’re telling him to peek it), but I just want him to add it to his progression. So back to your example of a Gift route, it could be a version of an Alert. For me, I would tell my QB to throw it based on what I’m seeing or situationally. Lots of college offenses give QBs the freedom to make reads like that based on leverage, so that would be more of a Read than an Alert in that scenario.

@@WideZoneWarriors Great explanation coach! Thank you!

Thank you!

I appreciate that! I’m very passionate about them being different plays.

​@Coach_DDavidson I agree I think the easiest difference for me to notice is when you called out lineman stepping in unison the same direction at the snap vs duo where not everyone moves same direction at snap.

I put a large emphasis on making first contact. Bill Callahan did a study a few years ago that found that the lineman that gets the first touch in the exchange wins the rep 80% of the time. Getting hands on him before that DL can get enough steam to drive the OL back is key. Schematically, I would also consider implementing a Crack Toss/Pin-Pull tag to crack that DE and run around him if you think you can get around him with how fast he is penetrating.

It’s a great one for sure. Hard to time up correctly, but when it hits, it is phenomenal.

You coach, now that I think about I was going to use this type of motion back in 2021 if I was going to coach that year. I coached youth ball for 21 years

In their playbooks, that is true. Personally, I treat that Thru the same as a Hi Cross and actually have it paired with the Basic in my own version of this offense. Just my opinion, but I wouldn’t go with a Dover for Dagger in high school, and I wouldn’t go with my version of a Thru/HC for the #2 either. I would just run it with a Basic and a Go. If you’re treating the Thru like a Hi Cross, it would be easier for the back-side safety to pick up the Thru, then the play-side safety can nail down on the Basic. Back-side safety can’t cover a Go by the #2 opposite unless he’s an absolute dude.

@@brianhackett7163 Stick. It’s a play-side to back-side read as far as how I coach it: Flat, Stick, Over, Hook, Flat

@@WideZoneWarriors thank you

Never know where life goes! I didn’t ever plan on coaching football. I actually started coaching through strength and conditioning, but that naturally got me around football. I’m young enough as a Rams fan to not remember the Greatest Show on Turf but old enough to remember all the crap that we endured between then and McVay. Since I was just learning the ins and outs of football when they went to the Super Bowl in 18, I had to know the juice behind the offense. I started studying it then, haven’t stopped since, and now I’m coordinating my own version of it!

Thanks so much!

I coach mine at 5 yards

Glad I could help!

I appreciate that thorough response! I love play-side options. Good defenses try to keep their back-side players out of conflict to prevent that original “zone lock” RPO you mentioned. I like same-side runs to read defenders that think they’re on the back-side based on RB alignment, but they’re actually on the play-side and in conflict that way.

@@WideZoneWarriors Interesting. There's a simple base concept to all of this. And I tie it all together in even a more macro concept as simply Pro and/or PS styles.. but the coolest thing that's happening now is all the little nuance and fun with these schemes off the base ideas. As always the NFL is really getting detailed, while college is still experimenting - though to a lesser degree now - with how far a scheme can push the variety on Space and Time in the game.

I sat in a clinic this last offseason with the San Jose state run game coordinator who was the Miami dolphins quality control coach this last season, his entire talk was about this rail play and how they could run it many ways out of many formations! With this being said it is 100% a rpo. He talked about how the line has to stay from going down field since they only have a one yard cushion before it becomes illegal man down field. The next thing he talked about it how Tua would just pull the ball and throw most the time and they let it happen regardless of what the de does because of the success they had throwing it.

@@merrick7497 yes. RPO all the way and really popularized by Briles. There are always others but I think of him first because his schemes were brilliant in their simplicity, variety and ahead of its time flexibility. Not surprising the Pro Ideal can use all this PS stuff and tweak it in a 1000 different ways. Now the pro style is showing its first real flexibility in concepts of scheme, technique and teaching. Btw. RPO really isn’t the full package. People say this with little understanding. RPOs are just one of many style of schemes within the Power Spread concept. And then of course as you said above. The RPO concept can be broken down into many schemes. Such as “rail” which can be broken down into a ton of different types of plays. People say “it’s all been done” but that’s a misnomer. There’s so many combos of concept scheme and play yet to come. Far from complete. I love how an nfl team was riding with what Tua was comfortable with. Instead of sticking on him to read the play. Guys like McDaniel are changing the mindset of the league.

@@merrick7497love the insight! Thank you. I’m nowhere near brave enough to even think about giving my QB a throw option with an unblocked defender at the first level by design, but I’m pretty conservative as far as RPOs go in general (one read - one route to streamline QB’s decision making). I also don’t have Tua as my QB though, and while I think he is a pretty limited QB, I think probably his greatest strength is his processing ability, evidenced by his ability to run this play at such a high level.

I actually think a Shanahan vs McVay breakdown would be a great idea for a video. Might have to flesh that out some more. I am interested in what you consider the “power spread” concepts and a “pure West Coast Offense” to be. I would definitely consider the Power, Counter, and Dart reads I broke down here as part of a power spread, but that’s not part of their base offense. I also think that the West Coast offense has pretty well become synonymous with being a Pro Style offense in modern football. To my knowledge, the west coast was unique in the 90s because of the prevalence of passing in it, but that’s not unique anymore. Systems like Shanahan’s and McVay’s also have so much total volume that they can pretty easily morph into almost anything based on what they think will maximize their personnel. West Coast, in my opinion, primarily has unique connotations in regard to the pass game specifically, primarily with shorter, horizontally-stretching concepts.

@@WideZoneWarriors Thank you for the reply and your knowledgable comments! I have a powerspread website (net) for over a decade. Because of the professional work I was doing for sports and other things, I could never keep up consistently or organize it the way I wanted. Still there's a ton of artlicles and ideas thrown around and collected + powerspread podcast and youtube where I breakdown film as well. Not the high level of production you are doing. At this point my associates and friends are trying to steer me away from internet content and towards a book as I have a ton of research on the schematic history of the game - even before Walter Camp! That's my baby. As always - Time. Enough about me - let me get to your question, which btw, in over a decade - you are the first person to actually ask what i actually mean by these terms. Over 10 yrs!! Incredible, but a serious inditement on the age we are currently in - fast - knowing shit - but really dont know shit. A glossary of my terminology is something I wanted to put together for yrs! For ex RTO - amazing know one uses that - that is exactly whats happening when the QB has the option to give - keep - or pass...

@@WideZoneWarriors I don't have room here to answer all of this. Power Spread came to me back in 2008-9. What they were calling "spread" has been around since 1920s with Rusty Russell in TX. Option Football (1940s) evolved and smacked together with Spread football (Rusty>DMeyer>Tiger>Flexbone.RRod/MMatsakis) creating Power Spread. Since that time I have developed a Cultural Identity to PS that covers the history of the game and where it's heading. Simply put - PS in terms of Space/Time. Use of Timing and Playclock. Use of all the Space. Sid Gillman (FSchmidt who coached with DMeyer - its all connected) really expanded football minds. There are 3 shoots of the Tiger R&S - the Neumeir line had some of the pro style elements and combined with Gillman proteges became the Pro Spread that eventually combined with another Gillman protege Bill Walsh to become this WCO of the Modern Pro Game. In the meantime pure PS concepts exploded into three styles UMeyer/GMalzahn/ABriles - really from Talent Based (athletes in space) to Timing to Space. Briles a mastermind like no one before Gillman in the use of Space. Or at least the extremes of it. So thanks to the Shanahans (Mora before that), then Harbaugh, Shula - these guys opened up to the new mobile QB (the most obvious sign of PS) in the NFL. Andy Reid cemented the two systems - Pro PS... and it's taken off from there. Pro = more condensed sets(spread after snap as opposed to pre-snap) - under center - no option but based more on Timing Execution. Option is execution and Timing as well but all about reads. I could go on - but I you know all this so more efficient to ask questions I'd think. Pro & PS is now everywhere, which I predicted back when I started - and in 2019 as I called for the Age of Flexibility to begin (20s) - before that it was just Aggressive Variety without the middle Flex. Now it's all about the Base - Pro or PS - thus PS Pro or Pro PS.. I have other ways to describe as well as experimentation and evolution is happening rapidly. Multiple - Full --- What McDaniels and Slowik are doing is fantastic! I have some recent vids on all of that. Everything in your reply is spot on. Space - how you attack it - Time/Timing - how you manage it. How you combine the two. Again - Pro and PS. This leads to overall Culture of Team and Organization - who other ball of wax. Talent Technique Scheme (or Space Time Team) So all ways match personnel. Take the best attitudes+talent (college talent huge obviously) and the PS system morphs but never goes away. You opened a can of worms my friend, but thank you for the questions...🙂

I appreciate it!

Thanks!

It leaked sometime around late May/early June. I’m still getting it all sorted out by concepts instead of how it was sent to me, which is grouped by install day. When I get that finished, I plan on putting it in my free folder!

@@WideZoneWarriors let’s goo!!! So excited to see their terminology and match the film to the playbook.

@@WideZoneWarriors when do u think you’ll be done sorting it?

Thanks!

Yes sir! Need to add a gap into the box, whether it’s a fullback that can isolate the play-side LB or a tight end to allow the tackle to be uncovered, shuffling deep, and keying that LB.

@@morgonholden9398 I’ve watched McVay pretty closely. I think he just uses regular paper, although a much bigger sheet than 8.5x11 (normal paper). It’s folded so many times that it gets a little thicker. I think the rest of the tree might use cardstock, just based on how it’s held.

This is the Freeform app on my iPad. I use it plus an Apple Pencil for drawing stuff up, and I love it!

Thank you!

I appreciate it! I don't have anything specifically on the I formation, but in my CoachTube course, I draw about every run play from some form of under center to start with. I generally prefer the Offset I to the regular I, though.

Thank you for the kind words! It definitely takes reps and communication, hence why I don't think true Outside/Wide Zone can be an auxiliary run. If it's going to be run correctly, it has to be the base run play for the system. To be the devil's advocate, I think the way you described may be a little more difficult, personally. I like to give my players rules - if this, do that; if not that, do this. Your idea would force the OL to recognize each front and how they are going to block it. The way I coach mine, if they're covered on the play-side, they have a hook (unless the DE is too wide - then it's a match). If they are uncovered, they have the deep shuffle read on the LB. I actually practiced it half-line a few hours ago at practice. I took 3 linemen, put a DL outside the play-side OL, a DL between the middle and back-side OL, and a LB over the middle OL. For example, say it's an Outside Zone weak to the left, it would simulate running to a B gap bubble with a 5T outside the LT and a 1T in the A gap. LT and C both have hooks (covered on the play-side), LG has the deep shuffle read. I just pointed for the LB to either scrape, fill, or fall back, and the hook players know if the uncovered OL combos with them that they are then trying to pick up the LB, whether it's a combo to a scraping LB or rewinding to a fallback LB. Then I put in the RT/RG/C and ran it to the right. After that, I put in the LG/C/RG, and it simulated the interior of the OL when running to a 3T. It's a bit more work on the front end teaching how to sort combos mid-play, but the way I operate and practice, that's a more worthwhile investment for me than teaching different fronts. I get to fronts in-season, showing my guys how we expect the opponent to line up, then I have them try and tell me how it should be blocked up based on our rules. That could just be me, though. I appreciate your thoughts!

Rams House! I've been pumped with how they are shaking out the OL this year, keeping Dotson, adding Jackson, and moving Avila to Center. The strength of the interior OL is vital to the play because Duo is designed to reset the line of scrimmage via double teams at the point of attack. If the OL can drive the DL backwards 2 yards, then the RB should be able to gain at least 2 yards, probably 4-5 by the time he hits a hole and falls forward. If the OL can't move the DL backwards, then it's on the RB to gain every yard past the line of scrimmage, if that makes sense.

Thank you!

I appreciate it!

@@Christopher-t6d They do make a difference in relation to which way I may or may not want a play to be run. The way I account for that is just in the line on the call sheet with the slashes. For example: Strong RT/LT 18/19 Zorro Cat. If I want to run it left, I know I need to look to the left side of the slashes (or have my QB do it if wristbanding), and vice versa for right.

@@criticaloptimist7961 Gotta save the best for last! 😎😎

I have a CoachTube course out on that, which can be found here: coachtube.com/course/football/shanahan-mcvay-offense-part-5-quick-game-drop-back-passing-concepts/18304566 Philosophically, I like multi-purpose / "good vs any coverage" concepts as a base that keep a similar progression for the QB in terms of the spaces he is looking for his receivers. Right now, I have my drop back concepts such that each receiver has a specific route no matter what the formation is, and my quick game is based off of what number receiver they are, counting from the play-side to the back-side.

Some gun, some under center. Mostly drop back from gun and quick game from under center to keep a consistent 3 step drop for the QB. Could do both quicks and drop backs from under center or the gun, but I like that timing for the QB. Play actions would also be more from under center for better run fakes.

@@WideZoneWarriors I was thinking the same thing and taking in consideration of the qb. If you dont mind what, would be the base dropback concepts

@@michaelrobinson8382 Y Cross and Mesh. Two concepts that are good vs almost any coverage because I plan on doing more runs and play actions than true passing

I appreciate it! It’s about landmarks, timing, and route distribution. A High Corner from a condensed WR and a Runback from a normal split WR get the WR in the same place with the same timing, just from different alignments

Thank you!

I haven’t broken it down into hard data, but just based on my observations of pouring over those playbooks for years now (that one specifically), it seems to me like most of the protections in it are Scat, not Jet. Scat protection is a 5 man protection, so it’s not quite as important, in my opinion, for the slide to marry with the QB’s reads because it can be flipped at the line if there is pressure being shown one way or the other that might make the QB hot, and it has no impact on the RB’s route and timing like it would if he had a check release in Jet protection. That’s just my speculation, though.

@@WideZoneWarriors Right. And with the Jet protections in the 49ers playbook, it is almost 100% sliding to the initial read side with the blocking back behind the qb.

@@mjciavola I’m not sure then. Could be something as simple as Jimmy G felt more comfortable that way back then or that it’s just not as big of a concern for those guys as it is for me. Doesn’t make sense to me for that to be the routine way to do it, but maybe that’s why they’re in the NFL and I’m not 😂

One of mine too! Good vs anything if run correctly, and it can be dressed up a ton of different ways