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i own a pair, they go pretty flat until about 17hz for me

Or Genelec 8351B.

Type 20 BLOW AWAY EVERYTHING WHAT I HEARD I SHOW ROOM. Love them

Also tested the Hedd type 20 mk2 in a showroom in comparison with: - Neumann k150 (+ sub) - Neumann 310 - Barefoot FP-02 And the Hedd type 20 mk2 were the clear winner: relatively punchy bass, very detailed low mid but not overwhelming, very detailed crispy highs and wide stereo image. For extra bass extension I would add a Hedd sub.

What’s the integrated controller? Do you listen them tor personal music or only producing?

I was going to mention the KiiThrees since they are similar tech to the D&D and are comparable in price. I would have recommended them as a final audition test against the D&Ds. Thank you for bringing them up. Many people seem to choose them over the D&Ds. They are perhaps less opulent but have a clarity and objectivity that is second to none.

Unless you have heard truly high-end setups (which the Dutch & Dutch are) you wouldn't be saying that. But yeah, indeed there is some measure of subjectivity to all of this. Some might even argue that hearing absolutely everything is not at all optimal for most mixing cases. Personally I'd happily mix with any type of sealed box speaker (aka the notorious Yamaha NS-10) + good pair of headphones as high-end fine tune and reference. And I have access to and have worked with high-end audio for many years now (decades actually), yet my current go-to setup and where I've got my best results is a simple pair of Slate VSX headphones (albeit with carefully tweaked custom EQ settings) + good headphone amp + good DAC (Prism Audio). This simple low-cost (if you disregard the headphone amp and dac) setup yields better and quicker results than I could get with 20k€ + 100k€ studio room. Yeah, we live in strange times.

@@niklassilen4313 I am saying what I say, And I have also owned and heard many many sound setups , in studios and in hi-end audio since the mid 90's , I love this stuff. I think its fair to say that different people work and respond differently to different equipment. Some folk like transmission line and back loaded horns with tube amplifier to listen to jazz or orchestral music, others like RnB in car speakers. Personally amongst all the hi-fi speakers that have crossed my path, I very much like Tannoy's coaxial speakers, Their soundstage and musicality are night and day compared to the Neumanns and other accurate studio monitors. In a studio setting where accuracy is the subject, the Neumanns do however, to my ear give me the information that I need to hear , just the way I need. I have not heard the Dutch and Dutch , I am sure they are amazing, Along with so many other great pieces of equipment. I did also once have a system that I thought was to revealing, as an analogy, it was like a photo where every aspect was in perfect focus, so amazingly clear and crisp, yet our eyes dont see that way , I'd imagine to some degree the same is true for our hearing, perhaps the way we perceive different types of distortion is one of them. I have also noticed myself leaning away from DSP and digital power amplified monitors, I dont know why, but I absolutely love the sound of Tripath amplifiers, more than multiple Class A and other expensive amplifiers I have had. I am glad to hear you have found your 'go to setup!" truly can be a long journey. When I build my next studio I am aiming to go with DSD, so Prism Audio is on the menu! I have a hybrid system ATM ,to much to list here, but I will note that I am mixing ITB and OTB, and many respectable digital convertors I am hearing in recent years via a console are bringing me back sonically to when I first started my recording journey with a Neve + 24 Track Reel to reel. I suppose my main point here is, technically better or even perfect may not mean it is going to apply that way to everyone (or all the time) and most importantly here, I really appreciate this video comparison you have made thankyou..!

Genelec is 3-WAY - 218 mm Bass, 130 mm Midrange and 25 mm Treble. What are you talking about?

@@theshoemaker1 he doesn't know what he's talking bout..

No one considers barefoot the best. I actually recently found out they were part owned by vintage king which is why they were in so many studios, seemed like a big marketing push. Also Neumann are extremely underrated speakers. No one actually hypes up Neumann even the people that have em lol.

What are you talking about? Genelec "The Ones" are all three way 🤦🏻‍♂

I have a single 7350A paired with 8331As. Bass management is seamless from 20 Hz, but the main speakers are adjusted about -3,5 dB. My listening distance is about 1,2 to 1,4m, I don't see why you would need a larger model like 8341/8351 in near field conditions.

@@syntheee Primarily the higher rated power output allows for much lower volume level listening while still retaining all the detail. 8351B 250w + 150w + 150w … 8331A is 72w + 36w + 36w. Don’t get me wrong, I think the 8331A are great monitors and cover the spectrum but they just don’t have the same kind of energy response of the 8351B.

The generation before you said the same about your music, so stop being such a boomer.

Listen, that's Gen X to you. That music is crap for such good monitors.

@@donnowak4304 I don’t care what generation you are, you‘re behaving like a boomer.

All the speakers discussed in the video and comments are point source, the Geithains are coaxial - like the Genelec in this video.

@@CollectiveIntelligenceMusic Well not quite. Neumann's are clearly arranged in a traditional way with the drivers not all emanating from one point. Geithains are coaxial yes but that's a separate, additional, feature. Point source meaning drivers are arranged to physically all fire from the same place. But anyway whatever. This is maybe an aside. The main thing is I don't think Neumann speakers would be a bottleneck. Rest is just preferences I guess.

​@@Screaming-Trees That's not what point source means - point source is a term used to define a speaker that radiates sound from a single source, all of those speakers do that because when speaker drivers are positioned in the way they are on the Dutch and Dutch and Neumann they acoustically couple to one single source - making it point source. They don't need to be co-axially aligned to become a single/point source.

​@@Screaming-Trees Let me start again, ALL of those speakers are point source - drivers should be within 1/4 wavelength of each other to act as a single source, which they are in these examples & as a result they act as a single point and emanate sound in a cylindrical pattern from the loudspeaker - the Geithains are point source, but the drivers are coaxially aligned which can help with time alignment and combing/phasing around the crossover points.

@@CollectiveIntelligenceMusic Okay let's split some hairs then. All speakers are point source but some are more point source than others is what you're saying. I am being facetious of course. Yeah the drivers are aligned not because this "can help" but because it does help and is clearly better than 1/4 length proximity when it comes to phase. Genelec have done it for precisely this reason. Even with all their dsp trickery you can't beat that kind of driver positioning. But this isn't going to matter. And that was my point. I think the Neumanns are fine. I would only ever upgrade from those if I wanted big, big, big speakers. Emphasis on big. Once you get past the Neumanns you are spending enourmous amounts for 1, 2, 3, 10% whatever. Whether or not this makes sense is on a case-by-case. You would know your own situation and whether this is worth it. I don't mix and I didn't buy the Geithains for perfect phase. I bought them because I wanted big mains. The other feature I was interested in was the cardiod bass response as that is actually something tangible that can help. Because I only write and produce I wanted something to keep myself inspired through the day. But if you don't need that the Neumann system might potentially be a great solution for you. It's not going to be a bottleneck. Berghain system goes down to 30hz. If you're writing tracks for those kinds of clubs you just need to worry about that. The rest of is case-by-case and preference. You would know better than I what your use-case needs.

Dennis was using GLM 4 ... GLM 5 and 8351 firmware updates along with crossover and multiple profiles will make the mids sound wonderful. Unfortunately Genelecs do need minimum 3 listening profiles. What I really enjoy with the Genelec is that no matter the volume level, they always sound accurate ... I tend to listen at lower volume.

Not even close. Get an education. 👍

While I not agree that they might be "better than" or "worse than", I do agree that you can make the 150's (or any other same/upwards price range monitor) work wonders and never need anything else ever again. It's all on your skills and experience at that point.

@@hithere4289 the thing is, neither of these monitors are particularly good. 310’s have directivity issues because of the compromised baffle design, the Genelec have their usual harsh treble, and the 8C is a LF distortion nightmare. The 150 is just a better design than all of them.

how do they sound tho

In case somebody else wants to know prices: It's roughly 2500€ for Neumann pair, around 6000€ for Genelec pair and 15 000€ for D&D 8C pair.

@@niklassilen4313damn you get Neumanns cheap where you’re at. They’re about 6k CAD and the 420s are around 15k

​Neumann 310s are actually around 3600€ for a pair. ​@@niklassilen4313

@@niklassilen4313 lol the genelecs are 8k.

They are also designed to work with GLM ecosystem. Genelec make dummy models that are setup differently for plug and play, but the smart ones are not designed like that.

Which real studios are your reference ?

Can you provide a source for the distortion issues you mention?

​@@l.s.1709 There are various measurement on a few sites if you google it.. KH310 ($5k) have very low distortion, while the Dutch 8C ($15k) have relatively high distortion that is audible in different situations at normal listening levels. I have not heard the Genelecs ($8500) A more reasonable comparison would have been with Neumann KH420 ($10k) possibly with subs, Ex Machina, ATC, and others in that higher price range.

@@l.s.1709 Guess my first comment was deleted... Dutch & Dutch have pretty high distortion, audible in normal listening levels and it's been measured. You'll find it on various sites with a search.

are you competitors of Kii audio?

@@ProfessorJohnSmith I'm just a dev and don't really know much about our market segment or competition.

@@ProfessorJohnSmith Kii Audio system 3 (with their sub implementation called BXT) is 9 000€ more expensive than a pair of D&D 8C, so, yeah, well, I wouldn't say they are competitors but they get compared a lot.

@@MatthijsvanDuinCan you steal me a pair of 8Cs?

D& D needs a way better, logical and clear App, it is so messy, and if you do not use it often you go back to the App and you get lost, the app does not match at all with the quality of the speaker, is the least intuitive app I've ever seen..,,,please jsut to have an easy and logical menu with clear names is not hard to do ....it is easier to understand the menu of a new DAW than the ascend app

Shut up

Yes, it works with Eqs and reverbs, too.

What do you mean?

@@dennidorf I’m asking if you use a 10 gigabit Ethernet switch for your network between the Mac and the PC or just a standard 2.5 gigabit or whatever it maybe?

@@newtension I was hoping it might be possible to connect the server directly with a cat6 cable but I know this is not the standard.