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No harm in getting the manual machine first and getting used to it. Good news is that you are ready for automation if and when you want to add it. Once you go automated it is hard to ever go back...

From what I've seen out of Q, the developers of the 8.6 BLK cartridge, an 8" barrel is best for subs only as all of the powder has burned by the time the bullet is exiting the 8" barrel. A 12" barrel is best if you are shooting subs and supers as all of the powder for your supers will be consumed out of a 12" barrel and you are not much longer than 8" for the subs. When you go to a 16" barrel you are double a 8" barrel so that is probably why you are needing more powder to burn to achieve similar velocities. On my Q Fix I've changed out my barrel to an 8" version as I only plan to shoot Subs out of that gun. My AR based 8.6 build has a 12" barrel as I plan to use it primarily for supers. I've even gone so far as to sight in each rifle using the rounds that I anticipate shooting out of them so I'm not having to compensate based on the round I'm shooting. As far as my test target range I always test groupings at 50 yards to minimize wind and my lack of ability. Once I have a load that I like I sight my gun in at 100 yards.

The Genesis looks intriguing but apparently there is not much information on when to expect it. The priming system on the Genesis looks to be way better so that is a plus for it. Also the shell plate having its own servo is nice because you don't need to adjust the pawl set screw to line it up. I have found that if I back off the resistance on the shell plate from the shell plate nut that I'm not having to adjust the set screw near as much. I think what they show in their video for the proper resistance on the shell plate is a bit too high or at least my understanding of what they say was too aggressive. Unless they have improved the "Decap Detection" I wouldn't be too excited that it is included with the Genesis. Swage Detection and Bullet Detection are both required in my opinion and in fact the swage detection acts as my Decap detection sensor. The Apex 10 shows to be $1000 cheaper but once you add the Swage Sense and Bullet Sense I think you are only at around $500 cheaper. If you go with the Apex 10 I would buy a Dillon RF 100 Auto Primer Filler which will set you back another $500 so basically as I would configure the machines they are the same price. The advantage of the RF 100 is if you have other machines you can use it for those as well. So basically it comes down to whether you are willing to wait for what looks like a very interesting press that we don't really know anything about or if you need a machine now that will do a great job for you.

Good plan if you're running a bullet feeder. Most of what I load now on my 1050 or 1100's are smaller batches of calibers where a bullet feeder doesn't work well. This allows me to run a powder check and separate seat and crimp dies. Both a combo seat/crimp and separate seat/crimp work great it just comes down to personal preference. When I'm running volume and a Mr. Bullet Feeder I use the Apex 10 which allows powder check and separate seat and crimp.

@@devinbates6529 I also run a Mr. bullet feeder.

That would be nice but that would require a software update so I’m not sure how likely it is. You actually get good at just maneuvering to the sensor page and starting them as the first round is going around and also turning them off as well when finishing.

@@devinbates6529 Yeah. I suppose if I had one I’d do exactly as you demonstrated, proving each sensor works as designed as part of starting every session.

I agree that the Dillon primer system is not the best. If you have a problem it is difficult to get it cleared and going again. I like the fact that the primer system on the Apex 10 is not under the shell plate so if there is a problem you can fix it without unloading your shell plate and starting over. It is not perfect but I've never detonated a primer on the Apex 10, can't say the same for the Dillion...wakes you up for sure...;-)

In this video I was using the manual powder measure. When I filmed this one I did not have the electronic powder measure yet.

Thanks for the kind words.

It is "OK" unless you are working on precision loads. I've gone to the electronic powder measure and I find it to be more accurate for some reason. I typically achieve SD's in the 15 range with the electronic PM. If you need single digit SD's hand loading or a Dillion manual press with you measuring out powder is the way to go. The Dillion powder measure seems to provide similar results for me as the Apex 10.

Sounds good, my xl750 drops powder without any measurable deviation. I want the Apex 10, but I heard horror stories of people getting +- 0.4gr with standard pistol powders.

​@@StewieStew820 I'm not setup for pistol currently but when I am I'll run some rounds and give powder drop amounts. I'm not seeing .4gr deviations but I will run the test and let you know what I'm seeing. I have a very accurate scale so it often looks worse than it is with that second digit...

@devinbates6529 thanks!

Well I was interested to see the difference between the Apex 10 powder measure and the Dillion so I did a test. I measured the powder weight using an A&D EJ-303 scale which I have found to be very accurate. I was measuring to two decimal points so there was no rounding. I tested 15 powder drops twice for each measure. Both setups were in the 4.65 grain range so that should be consistent. What I found was virtually no difference in the two powder measures. The Apex 10 had the same average for both sets of measurements and the Dillion varied by .02 between the measurements. One of the measurements on the Apex 10 had a delta of .1 grains but the second Apex 10 group and both Dillion groups had a delta of .08 grains. Finally one of the Apex 10 groups had a Standard Deviation of .03 and the rest of the measurements for both had a SD of .02. I will try and upload a spreadsheet showing this data. One thing that I have noticed on the Apex 10 powder measure is that you need to make sure the locknut is very tight so your measure does not drift over a loading session. You should always measure your powder charge every so often in a loading session on any machine to make sure you don't have drift. Thanks for the question, this was interesting. I think it shows that both powder measures do a nice job of consistency.

Agreed. They make great stuff that is near indestructible. In fact Lyman/Mark 7 include som FW arms dies in some of their sets.

I really don't have any experience beyond these presses in the video, but I know that Mark 7 has some commercial machines. The Revolution looks interesting and the Titan, not yet released, looks like a beast. I have no experience with either of these machines just with Mark 7. I have found their products to be reliable and their support is top notch. If anyone else has insights please share. Good luck.

@@devinbates6529 thank you for responding and great breakdown of the machines you use.very informative and helpful

Are you referring to a priming system on an Apex 10 for 9mm or another Press? The only issues I've ever had on the Apex 10 is when I tried to use their Primer Xpress product. It did not work well for me so I replaced it with the original primer tube system that the press came with. I use a Dillion RF100 printer filler to load the primers in a tube that I then drop into the Apex 10's primer tube. This works great for me and I rarely have an issue. Maybe one or two upside down primers per 1000 rounds loaded and that is most likely due to the RF100. I use a FW Arms hold down die in the priming station to ensure consistent seating depths and it works great.

I guess we've had very different experiences with the Apex 10. I'm not sure if you were using the Primer Xpress or not. I did not have good luck with it but when I switched back to the primer tube assembly I've not experienced the issues that you mention. I've loaded 10's of thousands of rounds without having to remove the priming shuttle disc. Also, I agree that there are a bunch of different hex head sizes but I don't recall any being metric. You definitely want a good set of hex wrenches for sure. I like the additional stations and I especially like being able to install a hold down die at the priming station to give me very consistent primer depths. Not sure if you received a lemon or not. Thanks for the feedback.

They just released a gen 2 primer unit. Works perfectly now!

@@Transmissions They sent a notice about that a month ago. Will have to order one. Thanks for the info.

@@rodgerbooth1064 np, I wish they would have offered these for free as a replacement, but I decided to cough up the money. Well worth it. Good luck!

@@Transmissions I hear ya, it has been a real Heart ache!! I have taken mine apart over a hundred times to clear the primer system! I was going to buy the new automated press and then thought about what I went through with the Apex 10 and put the brakes on! Doubt that I will ever buy another product of theirs! I think I am going back to Dillon. I never had these problems with the Super 1050!

Sounds good, I think you will be happy. After I made this video I have changed my mind on the "Primer Orientation Sensor." It can be finicky to adjust and will provide some false positives. Since I case gauge all the ammo that I load I have stopped using this sensor as I will find the occasional upside down primer or one that is crushed. Either way you will be good but I just wanted to give you a heads up.

For your first question, I would try increasing the "Pause at Bottom" setting a bit and see if that improves the cut on the case. Also make sure that your vacuum is clearing out the brass that you are removing. If that gets clogged up I've found the trimming will suffer. I also wash my brass after processing so you can add some stainless steel pins to help cleanup the ends if you have some burrs. As far as length I opened a bucket of brass that I processed awhile back and checked lengths. I checked two random groups of 10 and I found that my average length was 1.74945 and 1.74875 with a standard deviation of .0025 on the first group and .0048 on the second. Of all 20 the minimum length I had was 1.742 and the max length was 1.7555. When you look the trim length for 223 is 1.75. The max and min for the cases is 1.76 and 1.73 or 1.74 depending on source. While there is variation in my case lengths I'm well within spec. I expect the short cases that I had were not even trimmed and were short to begin with. For your second question you will see that the spring is held by some very small Allen screws on the left and right of the case feeder mechanism. The holder on the right is not adjustable and just holds onto the end of the spring. The holder on the left has a through hole that allows you to pull the spring through so you can loosen that screw and change how tight the spring is. I would just loosen that screw on the left and push the spring in a bit until it is loose and doesn't cause the cases to tip inward and then tighten it back up once adjusted. Hope this helps and if anyone else has suggestions please share.

@@devinbates6529 Thanks Devin for the help. Maybe I can find a Allen wrench that will fit those small screws. Thanks! God Bless

What a good idea. You are more creative that me. Great input, Thanks.

Great plan on the RL1100. While I prefer to have two separate dies for seating and crimping one works for sure as well. I buy most of my brass an it is already roll sized but I have a roll sizer for any brass that is not already taken care of. I believe that it is critical to roll size the brass with as many Glock or similar handguns out there that create the bulge. Goes to show there is more than one way to skin the cat. Thanks for the input.

For what it’s worth, I don’t rollsize my 9mm brass and some of it must have been reloaded 5 times or so. Various headstamps, all mixed. I shoot it from Glocks, Sigs, HKs and B&T without any problem. They are loaded with Dillon carbide dies on an XL650 and do have that coke bottle shape, but they all feed. So why is roll sizing 9mm critical, if the ammo works? Bulge or no bulge. A friend roll sizes his 9mm because they don’t fit his chambers after resizing with the Lyman carbide die on his 750. so yeah, if you have to, go for it. But it doesn’t seem necessary to me. I would have bought a dillon die instead of a 1k rollsizer and extra steps if I were him😅 Anyway, thanks for the video. I might be getting a RL1100😃😃

While I'm no expert on roll sizing my guess on why you are not having issues is because you are shooting a Glock. I don't have issues with all of my guns if I don't roll size but I do in others. If all is going good for you don't change a thing. It is simply insurance for me.

Good eye. I love it. It is great for prototyping things as well as just making handy things around the shop. It is very easy to use and there is a bunch of things already out there to print or you can use a 3D Cad solution to design whatever you want. If you don't need CAM for a CNC machine I recommend Onshape. It is free for hobby use and is easy to learn. I need a few more hobbies...;-)

I used it initially and it works great for straight wall pistol cases. When I started loading 5.56 bottle neck cases the hold down dies from FW Arms worked better because they help hold the case vertical. Also the rod that holds the case down is spring loaded so it works better with range brass because there is variation on the dimensions of the various cases.

@@devinbates6529 Thanks! I’m trying to pick out the extra dies I need. This makes a lot of sense.

I like the Lyman Pro Micrometer dies for case flare, seating, and crimp. They work well for loading a bunch of rounds. FW Arms for decap and hold down. I use a FW Arms hold down die in the priming station as well to keep the primer seating depth more consistent as it helps keep the case down when seating the primer. Good luck and enjoy.

Here is a comment from @WeTrudgeOn on the previous video: @WeTrudgeOn • 1 day ago I have an apex 10, just fyi for anyone who doesn't know, Lyman owns the Mark7 line of machines now. I've loaded around 100K 45acps on the machine so far, I also dumped the decap sensor, just a total PITA. I also had problems with the case feedfer getting bound up, so I took a lot of time just observing the feeder and ended up modifying it so it works flawlessly now. If they would have just taken a little time to get it right, they wouldn't have needed the reverse button on the feeder. I also bought the primer express and after a short time gave up on it, upsidedown primers, stuck primers, not worth the money. A freind has the $2000 dollar motorized primer system and that works really good but I just went back to the stock system also. I agree the shellplate pawl kinds sucks, the little 5/32 allen adjustment screw is hard toi get to and hard to keep in adjustment, I have put some blue locktite on it now and it seems to be staying put so far. I had issues wiht the bullet feeder too so I ended up getting rid of the spacer and moving the feeder clockwise around the case feeder and just drilling a new hole and bolting the bullet feeder on so the drop tube and spring are not in line with the powder hopper anymore. My new project is setting it up for .308 Win and I'll say this, the machine DOES NOT LIKE sizing .308s, they are pushing the outside limit of what it is capable of. Even with the premium Lyman carbide dies it still really doesn't like sizing them. To Lymans credit like Dillon they have excellent customer service, I have spent up to one hour of time on the phone with a tech sorting out problems. My nit pickiest thing with the machine is the rats nest of sensor cables you end up with with the factory cables, I spent a couple of days sorting cables out and cutting them down so they are not such a rats nest, I'm kinda anal about cable management anywhere on anything. I recently updated my pwoder sensor to one a guy called Rockcanyon munitions is making, it's a laser that senses the height or the powder so nothing goes inside the case so you never have any grains of powder sticking to the probe and dropping on the shell plate. This Rockcanyon guy is a pretty high volume commercial loader so he knows how to do sensors. Last I heard he is comming out with a whole new suite of sensors for the Mark 7 machines.

I no longer use the Primer Xpress attachment as I always struggled to get it to work properly. I tried a few primers, a bunch of primers and everything in between with no luck. I fiddled with the feed adjustment, which changes how fast it moves side to side, with no luck. I finally gave up and sold it on Ebay. Now I use a Dillion RF100 that I already had to fill primer tubes and I add them the old fashioned way and it really is faster than I was able to go with the PX because of all of the issues. The extra benefit is that I can use the RF100 for other presses that I have and it is cheaper than the PX.

Awesome, thank you!

I'm not sure what bushings you are referring to. Please provide more info and I can hopefully answer your question.

I use the Dillion Precision Case Lube. I have a couple of sheet pans with edges on them. I load a pan with cases. that have already been cleaned once and spray a few sprays over the pan. Shake the pan, and then let them sit for around 15 minutes and then dump them in a bucket ready to process and then repeat the process. Anytime I'm in the shop I'll lube brass even if I'm not loading. After I process the brass, covered in another video, I wet tumble the brass and dry it and then I'm ready to load it.

I guess it could be. Mark VII makes some machines that are more in the commercial space but depending on how much time you want to spend you could make quite a bit of ammo.

Welcome aboard. Excited for you getting a new machine in 24. You will love it.

Glad it’s been helpful. Great idea to come together as a group.

Thanks for the kind words. I think you'll love it.

Since all of the cases have lube on them I wet tumble them after processing. I have stainless steel pins in the tumbler and these take off any burrs that might be left. The trimmer does a nice job of cleanly trimming the case so there is not much to remove anyway.

@@devinbates6529do you have the size of the Allen wrench to loosen the screws on the spring. Is it metric or standard. Thanks God Bless

The size is .050 and it is standard. I'm adding a link to an Amazon set that I have that is both metric and standard that includes this tiny Allen wrench. These are ball end wrenches which I prefer but there are other sets out there with straight ends. Hope this helps. www.amazon.com/Eklind-Ball-Hex-wrench-Combo-22-piece/dp/B000189RGO/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2XI5CF6APW94J&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lRt1JEXoEBhZ6iwa7WhWYPTJEvmt2v5iPM0-egvdUGnSX9z_2UtRFRpZJ4cGp5bo4yzPoYhaDdbJXSUuBOOzsz0eshu9lyL-rSCike85gqMYY7tTjAZtgx2eKWWszHPm9E1dwgmPup0Ul4iLhMza0GwW-HlHOJaqDPcoIx3P13S1RhETgcG2e7buQlkYagqEk-_kTskFlHW4SCL4XmB3xUH4CDqRYi76sAYTlPa9hZU6DgSY5akRgD9q2j15qeOua44wGWLXZX4fyWXr4Dt6iVJnlzs_fdbZRhHTgUhw9is.5R30xjNCzbHy11PO0eo75mrV3nxYhao3P_CS2ombZBQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=eklind+allen+wrench+set&qid=1710860611&sprefix=eklin%2Caps%2C228&sr=8-5

@@devinbates6529 Thanks for the help. God Bless

You will love the quick loader. It makes it so much faster filling the case gauge. I wasn't sure how it would work when I bought it but it works great and is so much faster.

Thanks...Wife made it clear that I needed to stay out of her hair years ago so...

It is very handy and I like the final check on my ammo...saves issues in the field. Glad you found it.

How so? I don't think it's right to call someone out for being incorrect without explaining how/why you think they're incorrect.

You sound like my wife...;-). Here is my breakdown. Not sure about current prices and I have additional equipment for other calibers and trimming etc. Also I ended up moving to the electronic powder measure as well even though it was not on this video. Mark 7 Apex 10 Reloading Machine. $2994.95 Mark 7 Autodrive $2085.45 Swage Sense $242.45 Digital Powder Measure $695.00 Lyman Pro Die Pack $375.00 Heavy Duty Tool Head Jack Bolt $79.95 Powder Check Sensor $249.95 DecapSense (I wouldn't buy again) $199.99 Primer Orientation Sensor $324.95 BulletSense Sensor $349.95 Mr. BulletFeeder $519.95 FW Arms Dynamic Hold Down Die. $75 FW Arms Decapper $70 Total $8,262.59 Sometimes it is better not to add things up...;-). This is for one caliber. Caliber conversion kits are $214 and Powder measure conversion kit is $80 plus the dies that you like and if you are lazy like me an extra tool head is $250. You need to load a fair amount of ammo for this to make sense and even then it a luxury but much easier on your arm and shoulder. I wouldn't buy the decap sense again because if you are using range brass it gets dirty and you are spending all of your time cleaning it. Instead make sure that you get swage sense and it will let you know if the primer was not removed. I would still get all of the other sensors because as fast as this thing is going you can't keep up with everything without them. One other thing. I would not buy the Primer Xpress attachment again. I messed with this thing forever and I could never get it where it worked reliability. Instead buy a Dillion RF100 Auto Primer Filler and save a couple hundred bucks. It is much less hassle and I end up loading faster even with it stopping every 100 rounds.

@@devinbates6529 Thanks for sharing

You guys make great products that are very well built. Keep it up. I'm processing some 9mm brass right now and I'm at around 17,000 rounds and I'm still on the same decapping pin.

Thanks for the tip. I will give that a try. You guys make great products that are very well built. Keep it up. I'm processing some 9mm brass right now and I'm at around 17,000 rounds and I'm still on the same decapping pin.

​@@devinbates6529 that's because You don' t have any small primer hole, like the Sellier Bellot nontox. With those kind cases, you need a 0,05 inch pin to decapp

I am processing and reloading range brass that I acquired from a third party. There are all kinds of headstamps and even some cases with burdan primed cases or small primer holes. I try and keep the Digital clutch setting low so it will activate when it hits a case that will not deprime. It is a balancing act between resizing the case and not breaking pins. This is easier when you are processing 9MM brass because it does not take as much effort to resize. I have chosen to discard cases like the Sellier Bellot when the digital clutch kicks in so that my priming pins last longer. If you have a bunch of these cases you are right on the money about the thinner pin breaking more. Thanks for the feedback.

@@devinbates6529 there is a solution for that small primer hole. I already modified a Dillon sizing/deccaping die, and work great. All the best from Romania!

@@devinbates6529 wow that's impressive, I can barely make a decapping pin last 1000 rounds.

Thanks, and I hope that you are enjoying your new press. I'm working on some videos for 9mm as well.

The screws that I'm using came with my machine. I think that the tip on them is probably nylon but I believe that the screws themselves are metal. I put some Red & Tacky #2 grease under the shell plate nut which might help. Also you can get some Vibra-Tite thread locker and put that on the threads. It helps threads to hold and not vibrate out. I have to use this stuff anyway on the adjustment screw for the shell plate pawl. I'm not experiencing this problem so I'm not sure if this will help but it is a couple of ideas to try. Good Luck.

@@devinbates6529 Thanks so much i will give that a try.

Awesome thank you! Hope you enjoy the content. I'm currently working on a video on loading 9mm on the Apex 10.