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i always thought this take was bullshit because paul is ACTUALLY a prophet / messiah in that he can see the future and is legitimately extremely powerful; a false prophet has no vision and no real power they just exploit faith for their own selfish gain

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Not the hero of the Dune novel??? Hogwash. Paul IS the hero of the Dune novel. But he is a deeply flawed hero. Filled with doubt, remorse, sadness, brutality, controlled fear, self doubt, and a longing for a peace he knows he will never live to see. In short? Paul is the epitome of what it means to be a true warrior. The only difference with Paul, and real-world warriors, is that he can forsee with accuracy what his actions will do on a bigger scale. See how they will not just shape HIS destiny. But that of mankind as a whole far into the future. Which is something that most warriors never can see. For example. A soldier fighting in the bloody trenches of WW2 never got to see beyond what his immediate orders were and never how they would affect far distant future events. Paul didn't have that problem. One can go on about how Paul supposedly used the Fremen's own traditions, myths, religion, etc. In order to rule them and use them as a weapon? But to do so is very, very, small minded. Paul didn't "use" the Fremen. He had simply become one of them. Embracing their culture, weaponry, tactics, and religion not to use them as mere pawns. But to LEAD them into a future that HE knew was inevitably coming. In short? Paul was the supreme leader that the Fremen NEEDED.

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TIE LE BOSS ENFT LE COUZ MA BOI

The true Hero is Duncan Idaho

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Paul realizes that everything he does will be considered a sign by a fighting force who wants to believe, so that they can become free. Just before the fight with Feyd he realizes that the Fremen will unleash war regardless of the outcome of the duel: if he wins, they have the legend fulfilled, so they go to conquer everything. If he loses, he becomes a martyr and they go on to avenge him by killing everyone.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." Paul may be the villain of the individual narrative, but it is inevitable that Paul or someone like him will come along eventually and succeed. This is only made possible by the fact that like all narratives, villains abound hidden just beyond every corner and their villainy knows no bounds. They won't stop at jihad, unlike Paul, who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into becoming a demagogue.

well just like how Johnny is the hero in Karate Kid

Perhaps, but the galaxy was already run by a blood thirsty tyrant and corrupt nobles. So, it's not like a system any more Just was toppled. More like one Dictator toppling the previous one.

Paul is like Jesus Christ destroyer of the old gold, bringer of war,revolutionary.

glad they made chani different from the book

Not really a villain It's more anytime fable and fairytale come are the key ingredients to power a And freedom is a gateway drug to giving your life for something or someone This cautionary tale is ancient W King Arthur And baldur the golden

Why does the new Narrative want to make villains out of people THE PEOPLE put forward to be leaders? You can’t escape basic Humanity.

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there are no good guys in wars... just winners and losers. The real question is which side would you rather be on?

Paul gleefully compares his kills to Hitler, and says “those were pretty good numbers, in their time.”

The real "villan" of the Dune saga is a tragically unintentional one, Pardot Kynes. His fanatical drive as a scientist to "save" Arrakis by turning it into a green, water rich paradise almost caused the downfall of Humanity, the domino effect of the death of the sandworms meaning no more spice, meaning suddenly no more foldspace travel, plunging the Empire into a massive Dark Age. Of course no one knew of this outcome until Paul (and later his children) saw it in their prescient future visions. Ironically it was the 2000 Sci-Fi miniseries that best showed the action Maud'dib SHOULD be condemned for... Paul was unable to accept the responsibility of the burden required by the Golden Path, the only way out of the trap the greening of Arrakis had created. Paul's visions showed how he (or someone of his lineage) would have to become a sandworm in order to reseed Arrakis with new worms in the distant future, (God Emperor of Dune takes place over 3000 years after the events of Children of Dune) when Dune could be brought back to super arid, desert conditions. What terrified Paul so much he shrank from the duty was the fact that, when the time came to become a sandworm and give your life to create thousands of new sandtrout, your mind would remain trapped within each new worm... forever. The jihad carried out by the Fremen in the Atredies name was a mere growing pain compared to the possibility of humanity essentially ending up isolated without space travel, TRILLIONS dying from spice withdrawal once the worms all died and spice vanished

Dune is a complex story that both celebrates and condemns the hero myth reading Paul as either a villain or hero undermines the complexities of the story

Here are four definitions of Hero - they all fit. 1. a person distinguished by exceptional courage, nobility, fortitude, etc 2. a person who is idealized for possessing superior qualities in any field 3. classical mythology a being of extraordinary strength and courage, often the offspring of a mortal and a god, who is celebrated for his exploits 4. the principal male character in a novel, play, etc therefore its save to say that he is in fact the Hero of the Story. BUT - he is also more, because Dune is complex and its characters are as well.

Pick your poison Paul’s dictatorship or the Emperor’s

Dune is a Tragedy. Don’t call Paul the villain when the Benegeserit Sisterhood manipulated this whole situation having it blow up in their faces. Paul is a tragic “hero” at best and the fan base pulls for him out of empathy for him being stripped of his childhood or a true choice by manipulative witches.

Paul, Dr Manhattan, and Eren. Mfkin puppets that can see the strings.

The turtle doesn't get on the park bench by itself.

whats the point if its still asking phone number. what waist of time...

Interesting that you say that people should "think deeply" when reading the books, but take such a shallow viewpoint on Paul's situation. He is as much a victim as any other in the story. Bred by Bene Gesserit, exiled on a strange planet, burdened with the curse of foreseeing the future, and forced to accept the mantle of Muad'Dib, he is constantly robbed of choices. The only choices he really gets to make are his relationship with Chani and his refusal to take the Golden Path, and both of those bring their own kind of pain.

I always find it strange when people say movies carried such and such message. How about no message? How about it's just a movie lol

All heil Paul Atreides, Duke of Arakis, True Emperor of the Galaxy

Dune doesn’t have clear heroes or villains. Just people who do both bad and good things, and they’re all just hoping the good ultimately outweighs the bad. Exactly like real life.

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The Art Music, feel, everything about them new movies i think are brill. Its like a adults Starwars ( not saying that's just for kids I'm a big fan just that Dune maybe isn't for kids) gotta love space opera

Just finished the first book, I don't see a hero or a villain in Paul. I see a victim of circumstance who did what it took to survive, was turned into a deity by a primitive people after having been set up by the Emperor, betrayed by the Dr and almost had his entire house wiped out by a fat greedy evil barron.

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This narrator sounds like a younger version of the narrator from Dune part 1 lol

Still a hero.

Lmao he actually minimizes Hitler. He's like meh "Hitler's a li'l shit compared to me."

Nope, he actually is the messiah, they just couldn't control him, because they lost him in the desert. Messiah isnt always good for one half.

Can we have bdubs or someone to give an artistic critique?

Paul isnt the hero, Leto 2 is.

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