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A lot of climbers use 5-7mm

@suf-py4ix Tree surgeon and rock climber here. 8mm-10mm is more appropriate in commercial applications and is thick enough that you don't need a back up (the rolling clove hitch). 8mm also lasts longer on double rope technique. The other thing is, that there needs to be a difference in the diameter of the prussik and the rope. So an 8mm prussik on an 8mm climbing rope won't work very well. Whereas an 8mm prussik on a 13mm arb rope will work.

Generally it just bites a bit stronger, so if you are on wet skinny rope will need less twists. It is also multidirectional, not that it matters here.

No, that wouldnt be a recommended replacement for a sling... ...i'm sure you could figure something out but it'd be pretty 'non standard'. Good luck!

The free foot is for steady the swaying and to distance yourself from the cliff as you ascend. Otherwise as you push vertically upwards, your whole body slams horizontally into the cliff as the rope sways.

Yeah the other foot is for control

It’s way faster and safe enough

It’s the most unconventional anchor I have ever seen

thanks for watching @michaeldemasi1984 - it's certainly not the easiest system to escape from you're right. But, of course, there are ways it can be done.

@@sam_farns_climbing it also wouldn’t work on a multi-pitch climb if the leader is planning to also lead the next pitch

@michaeldemasi1984 yep - that's right again. It's not the easiest belay option for that particular scenario. Horses for courses!

You learn tool kits to escape the system… might take about three or four minutes to do so.. also, it’s easy to block lead, ghe follower just cloves in the same way but underneath

Haha yep! Most people here in the UK as well would call this toproping. But... its just a way to help differentiate between where the belayer is positioned. If the belayer is sitting at the top holding the rope for someone climbing up.from below we'd call that toproping. And the setup in this video bottom roping. 👌 it's all semantics! As long as we're having fun climbing that's the main thing right?!

It is indeed a little spot close to Lion Rock with a similar feel. I've never actually used 7mm cordlette so I should experiment with that. I'd be interested to see if it works ok on skinny ropes? What have you found? Yeah I also have a beal Jammy and love that reassuring 22kn tag! Thanks again for the comment. Appreciate ya!

@@sam_farns_climbing with 2 strands pulled out it wraps in a tight radius, works well with double 8mm half ropes as well as 10mm static rope. I have heard of people pulling a single strand from 6mm cord, that's where it came from but to keep both the strength and the bigger diameter (=bigger surface area contact) I opted for 7mm. I absolutely hate using normal 6mm which is a fight to rig and is all or nothing in use. Needs to be cut cold then sealed afterwards. 👍

Thanks Richard. Appreciate that. Sam

ah, thanks. But watching it back myself there are a few things id do differently next time. thanks,

Crocs for the win!

Not enough sole protection for me. But I gather there is a barista no slip version that at least has tremendous traction.

@Sam Farnsworth yeah I'd either do a long sling belay to a single 'out of reach' point or do each with the rope; needs a lot of spare though if they're not close and obviously out of reach single pieces need to be done separately from the harness and back. If using a sling it's often too short to make a 'W' to a masterpoint so I'd isolate a loop with an overhand for the first piece, then the overhand knot becomes the stop for the second. The other leg is to the 3rd piece and creates a V, that's what I meant by in-line. You can even do 3 in line with a 120 but there's not a lot of directional stability. It is often possible to use a 60 (alpine draw) to get 2 in line then use that as a single point rather like you did. The method shown is a bit of a combination, efficient with rope and gear. Your way is basically a 2 piece sling belay and clipped into the shelf rather than the masterpoint, one I'd never even considered. So many ways to do things, every day is a school day! All these things are easy to show but tough to describe. I did a 3 piece at Union Rock then had to run 60ft of rope out to get back to the edge! Would have used up all of my rope doing each piece separately.

Thanks for the visit

A lot of the same principles apply yes, but it's unusual to belay in 'guide mode' from an indirect belay like this. Guide mode would more commonly be used in a belay that comes to a central high point, separate from the belayers harness.

Alpine butterflies would work fine. For me they take a tiny bit longer to tie and I just find it quicker to fire in an overhand knot. Boom done.

@@sam_farns_climbing can’t say fairer than that! Thanks for replying

You sure could! But when rappeling id rather keep my lanyard free to clip in to the next anchor and set up a separate extension for the rappel device. The length on this lanyard wouldn't be long enough as well I think. And if you did make it long enough it would then be annoying in 90% of the situations you want it for!

I set it up with an overhand on a bite onto my harness and enough length out the other side of the knot to have a short lanyard with an eight on a bite for an extended rappel. Works well as a dual purpose lanyard and rappel extension loop

Not totally sure I understand the question. But you could climb up the rope if it was already fixed above you yeah. ruclips.net/video/6_lyZteCqgc/видео.html this video show an improvised way of doin gthis. Faster more efficient methods recommended if you know this is going to be part of your day.

Glad it was helpful and thanks for the note! Happy climbing.

ha yeah - Douglas I cant get enough of those sweet sweet cams! Good points, all possibilities. Just keeping things nice and simple for the video I guess. And a locker might have been a good example on the last leg. The non-locker is actually suspended in space - not touching the rock and the others we're all touching rock. I think that's why we just just the nonlocker on that piece. Make sense?

@@sam_farns_climbing makes sense. Personally, I tie cloves for the last leg on lockers considering you won't be able to monitor the system once down but it being suspended does make me feel better. Thanks bruv! 🤙

@@douglasw2662 Perfect. Cheers for watching and commenting. Appreciate it.

yeah that would work a treat. Nice one!

Forgive my ignorance as I'm new to rappelling, but why is it not safe? Nearly all of the information I've seen so far suggest this is the commonly taught placement for a backup. Strength wise it seems like it should be fine, though not as strong as the tie in/belay loop it should easily support your weight even though it only needs to supply braking force and not take your full weight. Can you share your take on it?

Hey I agree that the method of abseiling that we suggest switching to is not the absolute best abseiling/rappeling method. However, it is totally workable and most importantly in this case it is the simplest to switch over to when passing a knot. If you skip to this point ruclips.net/video/Ds3XGybZc28/видео.html in the video here you'll see our recommended standard set up. Happy climbing. Sam

I think the disadvantage that could be suggested of the rappeling methos we switch over to after passing the knot is that.... there isnt so much distance between the prusik and the abseil device. Its conceivable that the prusik would be released if it comes into contact with the abseil device as it rises up the rope as it begins to act as a break. Hope that makes some sense?!

prusik in leg loop is not totally safe if you don't have extension on rappel device, if you pass out for any reason your leg may lift up and prussik may fail by getting contact with the rappel device. Extension may give hard time to move out the first prusik, harder but safer in my opinion. I will try this for sure in my backyard and see...

This “rule” can be broken under certain circumstances. There’s a lot of dogma in climbing to keep jerry’s from getting killed but by the time you are doing real alpine or complex routes almost every “rule” you have been taught will be broken under the right context in order to increase security or deal with certain situations

thanks for the comment. Good luck, safe climbing!

Hi there Jamar - thanks for watching and commenting. Appreciate it. Yep, your correct. If we managed to generate a really massive force the overhand knot might 'undress' and another carabiner might help in that scenario. Certainly no problem with having one there, in the masterpoint. If the masterpoint loop is really tight that would be more likely, I've never seen or heard of this happening in real life application though. Have you? I'd be interested to hear about it. Thanks. Sam

Perhaps there is no need to make the differentiation between where the belayer is located (either at the top - or at the bottom) with the term used -'Bottom roping' or 'top roping'. Either way I hope the video explains this example clearly to folks looking for a reminder on their climbing systems.

There should always be some form of hardware to lower/rap off of at the top of a single pitch. If there's nothing at the top to lower off of (Just raw hangers for example), then you will have to leave one or two carabiners behind to lower off of. Then you should probably make local route developers aware of the issue by contacting them directly or posting on mountainproject.

Yeah thanks for the feedback. This video thing is tricky ay!

Hey Derek - just noticed this comment. Thanks for watching, we appreciate it! It would be interesting to know the difference in proportion of people carrying specialist rope grabbing devices, and the differences between say the US, UK, and Europe. I dont see many people carrying them here... yet!

I don't think that's true. I virtually never carry a shunt but almost always have a couple of prussiks on my harness if I'm on a multi-pitch or sea cliff.