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@@Newbegiinign hello

From someone that has been following my videos for a long time, this means a lot. Thank you! Table tennis is hard, and require a lot of training -- every small word of encouragement counts! 😘

@@z0uLess no problem at all, you really deserve it and in the space of a year you have improved even if you may not have realised it yourself. You will always improve when playing but it might be small improvements over time that make the difference

The guy in green tshirt

This is a random drill to improve my ability to do shorter strokes with forehand (forehand drive) and react to my opponents racket movements in time with my footwork. The first thing I focused on learning was to do a full stroke forehand topspin, mostly with a robot sending the underspin ball to the same place, and in the club we did a lot of drilling on turning underspin balls (long pushes) to topspin, but I soon learned that I was very rarely able to utilize my full stroke forehand in match situations. I could play a type of play that would look quite good vs defensive players, but totally fell apart vs basement smash players with equipment that has less grip on the rubbers. Its really difficult, this evaluation of what distance you should strive to have to the table. The modern game require you to stick to the table, but there are advantages to backing off a bit as well, especially if you want to increase the spin. Som good players say that I get stuck too close to the table. Its also a question of what level you are training for, or what level you aspire to reach ... and what style this suits best for.

@@z0uLess I see! That's great. I would say a good topspin stroke can still be compact. In the future perhaps it would be good to learn a topspin stroke that you can use in matches. Best of luck!

@@perthpongtt Thanks for your feedback and attention. If you like, you can have a look at match play from a month ago on my channel where I play vs. a player with a compact and fast forehand stroke. In this match, my strategy vs. him was to try and use slow spinny balls (alltho I know my quality can be lots improved) ... and here I hit some, albeit wonky, loops as well. The videos are named 13 04 24 set 1 13 04 24 set 2 13 04 24 set 3 13 04 24 set 4 Thanks ;-)

Yep, I have picked up on that and I do appreciate your insighful observations. My theory is that my history with running has made me quite stiff (stable) in the core and that I pick up most of my movements from the calf muscles by habit. My main though after looking at this is that I dont have enough rotation from the waist, which is something that woyld give me more flexibility in hitting the ball at different lengths from the table without doing so much of the adjustments with the arm and with position of feet. I have started incorporaring more stretching from this morning to try and make myself more flexible in core (and also aleviate some of the stessors through the knee joint) ... however, I do have a short torso and long limbs, so I can only work with what I have to an extent ... and I would like to study more players with body compositions like this as well. I feel that Liam Pitchfords style reminds me most of someone with long limbs that plays low to the ground with a lot of contortion of the body, but his slim physique might enhance that impression.

@@z0uLess That's good your putting in the steps to help you become a little more flexible. Getting the wrist action is harder because some can do it easier and others struggle, I'd suggest bouncing a ball on a table high enough so your not reaching for it and just flick the bat over it with little swing just to develop the feeling needed to maximize your forehand shots

@@Honeydew0567 yea, ... or I could make that tool where you can spin a ball by bending a coat hanger

@@z0uLessabsolutely, that’s also the other thing you can use to help get that feeling needed, with that you will be practicing more of an 80% to full swing but you can still try to flick the bat over it with a little swing to get use to it

Yea, closing the blade during the stroke is one of the problems ... locking the elbow into the body is another. Doing a "seatbelt shot" is not wrong in and of itself, but there are more efficient ways to put quality into the ball.

@@z0uLess pretty much, definitely nothing wrong with it, it can also be seen as a slap shot which do work well in no spin to low spin rallies but like you said there are better ways to make it more efficient and better quality shot

@@Honeydew0567 I suppose the focus should be to not move my elbow position during the stroke too much (rotation in the shoulder joint). I think this bad habit of closing the racket onto the ball is a compensation for not being able to predict the ball all that well ... and this prediction ability just requires a lot of playing

@@z0uLess it can definitely be put down to that. I was also similar to you where I was more afraid of missing the ball when someone would hit it hard at me, I was told to watch the ball all the way to the bat so I would have a higher chance of being able to return it but also hit it, it's hard at first but definitely give it a try

I dont use instagram. What did you want to discuss?

Yasaka Rakza Z (red forehand), Yasaka Mark V (black backhand), Avalox P500 (Stiga Offensive Classic on the right side)

Yea, I havent been practicing well enough for really the last year. Thanks for the feedback. As a testament to how we are in agreement, I wrote down one big bulletpoint yesterday on my notes: "practice more powerloops!" ... this one point can really be the main focus for a year or more, since progress is going pretty slow right now and it encapsulates and fulfills a lot of my playing style -- it will make me more confident in moving away from the table and it will give me the ability to end a point early when it does not need to go on and accumulate risk. One positive note I have from yesterday was how I was able to have fun anf have a clear head to both adjust my game to the opponent and to learn from the loss. My backhand has also started to look better and safer, unless I have to step out far to my left in an awkward position.

@@z0uLess That's great you have an idea on what you want to focus on to improve your game. I'm at a point myself where I'm just trying to become more consistent with my shots and be more patient as it's losing me way too many games currently especially against better players than me, but it's good to have slow progress because you beginning to see that you need to step up to a higher level again to continue to improve. adapting is the most important part of table tennis, you will a lot of the pro's doing this a lot, examples are Felix Lebrun, Timo Boll and many of the Chinese players. playing backhand shots away from the table or out far and reaching is very hard to get any sort of effectiveness, I'd suggest just focus on those shots to just get it back on the table, nothing fancy needs to be done.

@@Honeydew0567 I had one fancy backhand flick in this game though :D ... I am testing Nittaku Fastarc C-1 on backhand to see if this is goin to be an upgrade to my current Mark V rubber

@@z0uLess It's always nice to get that one fancy shot in during a game. interesting choice, from a quick google because I haven't heard of it before, people recommend using it for forehand side but can be used for backhand with the proper technique. Good luck trying it out, it may work really well for you or it maybe harder than expected, every now and then just use it as your forehand side during practice to see if it feels better, something I like to do just to gain an understanding on what feels the best for me

Too old :D

@@z0uLess I could teach u

@@Resistor-u7e Its not easy to change your technique when you started playing at 38 and are turning 40 soon. I am an old long distance runner, so I suppose my way of generating power from the legs and through a stiff core comes from that. I have gotten good coaching, but some times you just have to build on your strengths instead of trying to reinvent yourself, I think. I will be trying to incorporate some more whip motion through the wrist though, soon enough. Others have pointed out my stiffness, so you are absolutely right. I think I will gain the most ground by focusing on playing games and getting better at predicting the ball and reading the spin.

@@z0uLess not really that

Not trying to sound rude but you are not really generating power from your legs. Generating power from legs is great, but you aren't going that much because of your stiffness and etc. You can still change it with a good coach, does not mean you have to change it. Starting at 38 you will never be pro anyway so it is up to you if you value improvement enough to pay for a goodcoach regularly. But yeah tldr, you are not generating a lot from the legs because of your stiffness.​@@z0uLess

Yea, the closed angle stroke is something I find difficult, or the adjustment of the angle of the bat without collapsing my elbow inward to where the stoke completely breaks down. Keep in mind that I am playing with tacky forehand rubber which I think promotes a open racket stroke. Maybe this is why I find it hard to hit with topspin on balls that are slightly high and middle over the table, or maybe I should just think of doing forehands the way Vladimir Samsonov used to do it, since his body composition is similar to mine, and that I should mainly focus on having a blocking-control game because of my reach (long arms and long legs relative to my torso).

@@z0uLess It's a real challenge to learn and get use to the micro adjustments needed but just need to do a bit of practice just seeing what goes low or into the net and adjust from there. I can't suggest on how you want to play, I can only help you to see small errors or give you some advice upon how to reach that next level of your shots.

There are two very different rubbers glued to the blade. One has hard sponge and a tacky topsheet, and the other has a very soft sponge and also a soft-ish topsheet that is manufactured with tension when it is combined with the sponge so that the ball will be catapulted after it has been absorbed into the sponge. The tacky type of rubbers grabs on to the ball because the surface sticks to the ball and therefore it needs a hard sponge to create sufficient speed when you apply force to the ball. Its two different approaches to the mechanics of how to apply spin to the ball by grabbing on to it.

@@z0uLess Thank you for the detailed answer, I'm starting to understand! :) Can it be said that one or the other rubber is more commonly used by offensive or defensive players? Maybe the tacky one is rather for defensive players? Thanks :)

@@donvincente No, both are offensive rubbers. The main difference is the cultures in coaching and what players prefer playing with, and the tacky rubbers are mostly used by chinese players. You have to use more force and the body is more involved (mainly upwards movement from the legs) in the stroke, so if you play with chinese rubbers, you are sorta stuck to playing chinese rubbers when you play at a high level, or vice versa. A good example to check out is if you search the players Dimitrij Ovtcharov which has this "chicken wing" stroke and Ma Long which is commonly referred to as the best forehand in the chinese style. Defensive players often use an offensive rubber on one side and another rubber where the topsheet has been flipped so that the pimples are out ... and some play with only the topsheet and no sponge under. There are short and long pimples, of which the short variation is more common in top level play. Long pimples only return the spin that your opponent gives. Over a certain level, people get to understand how to play vs long pimples. Short pimples are preferred for players that like to hit hard flat balls. The last type is a rubber made to create as little friction as possible called antispin.

adjusting the bat angle is a pretty new thing I've started doing in order to be able to topspin balls that are over the table. previously, I would practice a lot vs backspin balls and this stroke would bleed into all the other balls I'd play (open racket), only I would swing harder upwards vs topspin. maybe I have developed a bad habit of adjusting the grip after focusing on adjusting the bat angle vs topspin balls? either way, its hard to not adjust anything other than your feet -- everyone leans a little or do other kinds of adjustments to compromise in order to be able to even do the drill in the first place. the last few months, my mindset has been to not be overly focused on technique in order to be able to play matches where I dont lose point because I am thinking too much about technique, which was my problem in my first year of playing. I think this is smart, and maybe go back to focusing on technique again in the offseason.

It might be. Either way, the rythm of my arm movements are completely unnatural given the context of this being a robot sending the ball to the same place, but me still having to predict the movement of the ball after it has been launched. I dont see how I am supposed to start a swing before I predict where the ball is going. I do hit it at the top of the bounce here though, dont I? The ball dips down since the setting is max topspin ... maybe thats what makes it seem like I am not hitting at the top of the bounce? My ready position is when my arm is up, so I have to move it down after I predict where it is going.

⁠@@z0uLessso how I was told is that you should have your arm down ready and waiting when they hit the ball back to you then you start your swing according to the speed of the ball

@@Honeydew0567 Ok, maybe there are differences in the way coaches approach this. I remember watching one of Kou Lei's matches where he shifted his feet synchronously with his arm movement when the ball hit the net solidly which changed the tradjectory of the ball more than when it will just lightly touch the net. He is trained in China and maybe things are different there? My point is that your feet would have to move independently of your arm swing if you are supposed to ready the shot by lowering your arm before you know which direction into the forehand side the ball is going to travel. My best topspins happen when I get to use the springiness of the whole body by loading it up with kinetic energy from the leg, which means I step into the shot instead of lowering my arm and then move into position. I think this is somewhat of a technicality because some balls you cant predict that they are going to the forehand before the opponent has hit them since some players have the ability to wait a long time during their swing before they decide where to place the ball on the table.

@@z0uLessthere are definitely different ways of teaching this to everyone because will be different and have small variations in how they will achieve this. Your still using your legs, body and just making sure when your getting into position your returning the arm to a ready position

@@z0uLess Jag skulle nog inte säg att du behöver starta armrörelsen tidigare. Du ser ut att vara i position med fötterna och armen i startläge när bollen studsar i bordet. Däremot tar du bollen en bit efter högsta punkten, vilket blir svårare för dig eftersom du jobbar lite för lite med ben och bålrotation i din loop. Jag skulle säga att givet bollbanan, skruven och var bollen landar på bordet skulle du kliva in cirka en halvmeter mot bordet samt starta rörelse med racketen högre, mer i midjehöjd och dra mer framåt i loopen. Testa dig fram hur mycket du vill stänga racketen över bollen. Med mer stängd racket är lättare att få en lägre bollbana och träffa bollen tunt men marginalerna är mindre, man får lätt mycket "kix". Lite mer öppen racket ger mer träffyta att jobba med men det bli lättare att man träffar bollen "tjockt".

I suppose its an effect of me not having a sufficient control of my touch on the ball and having to wait to see where it is going to go before I can prepare my next ready position, but this training tool is very good to get to know your own contact on the ball. The footage is from my second time trying it and I suspect it will help because the input is only from me and so you get direct feedback on what type of spin/power you put into the ball. I want to get to a point where I can do 100 or more repetitions. I put more force into the ball in this session and not so much spin as I did the first time I tried it. I think it was because I was really tired and annoyed that I couldnt do it properly, so I kinda overpowered it to get a lot of repetitions in, hehehe. edit: after watching a second time, I see what you are pointing to and I should just focus on getting my arm down as fast as possible after hitting the ball

@@z0uLess if your getting tired or frustrated from training with little results I would recommend just walking away and ending it for the day because you won't be focusing anymore on what you're trying to practice. Yes, so basically you finish your follow trough and immediately return your bat back to a ready position usually as you moving to get ready for the return shot, once I was told this I found that I was far more consistent with keeping it on the table

yea, as a beginner, my coach has adviced me to not start using my wrist until my level improves. also, my backhand rubber is Yasaka Mark V, so its not so responsive and bouncy modern style that probably favors wrist movements more.

@@z0uLess I would totally agree in context of backhand drive strokes. But when it comes to backhand topspin on backspin without wrist action it might be difficult. Best regards

@@Gitarrero2b Thanks for your feedback. Since I started using Mark V, it has become less of a problem. I did get some tips to not lower my bat as much in my backhand strokes the other day, but I suppose this is a habit I have gotten from playing this chinese style setup (flexible and hard blade with tacky rubber forehand) with a weak backhand rubber, so I hit all my backhand strokes with an open racket and really use a lot of action with my lower arm -- I simply have no experience with playing modern catapult rubbers. It seems a lot of players develop their backhand topspin as a spring starting with the wrist and going horizontally out from the belly button, kinda ... but everyone has a different backhand stroke. Look at how Truls Moregardh either punches the ball or lifts it with the shoulder, right? Seems to me that there is no wrong or right.

Thanks. I let myself get annoyed by circumstances around the match that I could not do anything about and I got into my own head too much. I really appreciate the time you used to check out my match and give me feedback. Very few do.

@@z0uLessit's very easy to be caught up with the circumstances of the match and I've definitely done it before, I've become very good at control my emotions and using my anger/frustration to help me win some points, not worth getting that way to begin with because it's only a game. no worries, I think it's good to see how far you've come and how much more you need to improve but also it allows me to gauge if your training is working or not

I dont know what Fung Fu Funk is, hehe. We live in a strange vortex singularity of hyperconnected interaction

@@z0uLess he is a mentally challenged guy who thinks he is a martial arts pro. Check him out, its hilarous

muchas gracias por el comentario

​​@@z0uLessPerdona, pero he visto más vídeos tuyos y tienes un nivel más alto del que yo pensaba. Para mejorar lo mejor son los cruzados, entrena con jugadores buenos, y mejorarás más. Para las mejores 10 gomas Forehand, y las mejores 10 gomas Backhand, mira en internet; hay un famoso entrenador pero no recuerdo el nombre. Hay mucho material basura, elige buen material. La cuchilla demasiado rápida no es bueno, es frustrante porque la bola cae fuera, compra la cuchilla adecuada para que las bolas no se vallan de la mesa, a medida que progreses compra una cuchilla más rápida. Yo uso Viscaria pero es demasiado rápida, recomiendo más lentas como Stiga Clipper , con la que jugué durante décadas, te entrarán todas las bolas. Si no te gusta Stiga elige otra marca, es de las más imitada ... Butterfly SK7, DHS Power G7, etc

@@davidsomo1651 I use Avalox P500 with Yasaka Rakza Z 2.0 on forehand and Yasaka Mark V 2.0 on backhand.

@@z0uLess la Avalox P500 es una madera formidable, más arco, más control y menos velocidad que Viscaria. La goma Rakza Z es una goma increíble, más tacki, mejor control y menos velocidad que D-09c. Pero Mark V es una goma desfasada para el tenis de mesa desde la prohibición de la ittf del pegamento rápido. Mejor opción para backhand es Rakza 7, Rakza Z, Xiom Vega Pro ( 32€ en oferta en Vsport ), Fastarc G1, etc..Debes encontrar una goma moderna acorde a tu juego en BH. Normalmente y a cualquier nivel se debe utilizar siempre la esponja en su grueso máx, por muchos motivos. Una esponja más fina pierde el control en impactos más fuertes, aparte de que nunca utilizará el verdadero potencial de esa goma que está fabricada y diseñada para trabajar en esponja máx. La velocidad siempre debe ser controlada desde el tipo de madera o el tipo y marca de goma.

😅 I am definitely trying to add topspin to the ball here, but I've been away from table tennis for two months now because of knee issues, so I am quite rusty!

@@z0uLess That's all good, hopefully the knees issues won't cause to much pain or problems when playing table tennis. Just a reminder, you can stand a little closer to the table allowing you to hit the ball at the top of the bounce and try to be more direct with your forehand top spins shots, will give you more consistency of getting it on the table and more power. It's still a good start to be getting back into table tennis, just don't expect your shots to be going on like they use too, give yourself plenty of time

@@Honeydew0567 Ah, good observation -- I didnt realize that I was doing it!

@@z0uLess It's why so many people always recommend recording yourself so you can watch it back and see where you can improve upon

@@Honeydew0567 yea, watching myself play after the break was tough 😭

Honestly, I enjoyed training with him because table tennis basics can get boring sometimes. I feel the same about playing doubles ... I suppose I need to switch things up to remind myself to maintain the joy of playing.

@@z0uLess that's completely fair, I would assume everyone has something they go to when bored or just not feeling it to remember why they enjoy the game. I suggest finding a few player and play a game called deuce, you are playing from deuce, one person start the serve then whoever wins the point goes advantage, then the player who lost the point will leave the table and another player will then serve the next point, if they win then it goes back to deuce but if you win then you win a point then the game will start again with you on the table still and another new player to serve. it can go forever or until someone reaches a set number of points won. it's a fun little game that help improve your serving and decision making in curial moments.

@@Honeydew0567 Yea, we have been trying to invent little mini games here and there. The other day we added an attack to the backhand backhand warmup: if someone hit outside the backhand side or the net, it goes to open rally and you can attack on your next touch ... it keeps you on your toes and adds just that extra little spice ... we also counted points to get some competition to it. suddenly, my backhand warmup got some intensity and I would speed up my hits to try and make my opponent hit outside the backhand side or the net so I could start the first attack and win a point ;D

@@z0uLessthat’s a pretty good idea for a game and does make you think of a way to force an error by your opponent. Definitely need to do some thinking amongst some of the people I practice with to make up some more mini games to play

Just saw description, Hope you get well soon mate.

Thanks, but still a long way to go! Right now I am working on not punching the ball with the wrist in my backhands and rather have the wrist work only at the trajectory that creates spin, if at all. I also noticed in this video that my forehand stroke tend to be shortened sometimes, like deacceleration start to happen before I make contact with the ball. Also, being able to read one style does not mean you are able to read another style of play, which is why it is so important to play with different people. This is a realization that I've come to that I think is the next stage of how to play table tennis. Some table tennis players treat the game as someone is either good or bad, like on a scale from 1-10, but its essential to understand that its all about the matchup and the meeting of styles. When you gain more experience, you will have a larger toolset to deal with different styles.

@@z0uLess it's definitely a habit to get rid of to improve your backhand shots, I always find holding the bat the correct way for backhand is a great start as it gives you plenty of wrist action along with forward movement from your arm. give it time and you will be playing backhand more effectively. That's good you have noticed this with your forehand shots, I have definitely done this in the past and I forced myself to play a slower forehand shot but with the intention to follow through always even if it meant I wasn't able to return to a neutral position to play the following shot, you will be able to see what is your best follow through and how much power is really necessary with you forehand

It is likely that the angle exaggerates the impression of upwards movement compared to horizontal movement, but yea, I do have a problem with being too much spin-oriented at times ... I suppose some of it somes from learning table tennis with a flexible and thin blade, the stiga offensive classic, that really isnt that good at hitting stronger shots while also maintaining spin. While using this blade, I am in my comfort zone for opening loops. I am trying to adapt to a slightly stiffer blade now, the avalox P500, so I can pack a punch every now and then. The idea is that I can be more agressive with the backhand as well, and maybe develop this as part of my arsenal, but I dont know if its my stance that makes me this forehand dominant, or if its just that forehand is a bit easier to learn in the beginning :P ... Honestly, I think the main thing is just to play and become better at reading the movement and predicting the ball placement. This is the main thing I need to do. If I do drills with seasoned players, I need to have a stronger blade to even return the type of quality they put into the ball.

@@z0uLessit could be indeed the angle that exaggerates it but you still have the motion or at least a good foundation to developing the shot. the stiga offensive classic isn't great for absolute power and speed but it's great for control and spin because it's slower but from my research and understanding a lot of Asia really likes it along with the stiga clipper because they focus a lot more on developing the spin technique over just power and speed like the rest of the world. it's always hard to adjust to a new blade especially if it's a little harder but definitely give it a shot and see if you really like it or want something else. If you can develop your backhand smashes then you make it harder for your opponent to play around your game but forehand is definitely far easier to learn, you only need to learn the timing and shot selection when playing forehand and after awhile you can make small adjustments to make it faster, slower, more spin, side spin or no spin shots, it's easy to learn but hard to master. Yes absolutely, I think anyone will agree with you there, I myself still trying to learn and predict but sometimes it only comes after playing with them for awhile and you begin to understand where they normally like to hit it. Well I personally don't believe in needing better equipment to take on better players because if I don't learn how to play with good technique and shot selection with "lesser" equipment but can only beat them with "better" equipment then what are you learning in order to beat them, not a lot more so relying on this "better" equipment instead of your skill set you have developed.

Thanks :)

Thanks, I should record a new one since I believe I have made some progress in this exercise since I recorded the video. Hopefully I am not just dreaming about it ;P

thanks for the attention. I will try to improve ;D