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James Morse
Добавлен 27 июн 2020
SPITFIRE SPEAKS: Spitfire Longitudinal Stability
Welcome to Spitfire Speaks!
In this video I discuss the stability characteristics of the Supermarine Spitfire and delve into the topic of Longitudinal Stability.
I welcome any feedback or questions! Please Like this video if you found it interesting and informative and please feel free to comment below.
Subscribe to my channel for future history & Spitfire related videos.
Thanks, James
In this video I discuss the stability characteristics of the Supermarine Spitfire and delve into the topic of Longitudinal Stability.
I welcome any feedback or questions! Please Like this video if you found it interesting and informative and please feel free to comment below.
Subscribe to my channel for future history & Spitfire related videos.
Thanks, James
Просмотров: 3 084
Видео
SPITFIRE SPEAKS: Spitfire Elliptical Wing Design
Просмотров 11 тыс.4 года назад
Welcome to Spitfire Speaks. In this video I explain the history of the Supermarine Spitfire and specifically its iconic elliptical wing design. I welcome any feedback or questions! Please Like this video if you found it interesting and informative and please feel free to comment below. Subscribe to my channel for future history and Spitfire related videos. Thanks, James.
Great video!
Thank you James - an excellent explanation of a very complex and interesting subject which I feel I almost now understand. I had no idea that the Spitfire benefited from early German and US work on aerofoil design. You say that they considered a slight sweep back of the wings and I wondered why this was dismissed for the 90deg spar to centre line angle.
The prototype Spitfire was supposed to be around 50 mph faster than a service Hurricane but this did not happen. The reason being due to the wing construction which consisted of 7 layers of horizontal plating, from the leading edge back. Gaps between each layer disturbing the airflow which added immensely to the induced drag. The problem was solved by turning the plates 90* and making each plate wider, thus needing less rivets to fix to the internal ribbing. However, this change resulted in a need to reconfigure the internal wing structure. Which along with the fitting of additional guns took nearly 18 months to complete. The importance of a smooth wing surface is best demonstrated by the P51 Mustang which used almost the same engine as the MkIX Spitfire but was much faster.
More! More!
Excellent video, but why have continuous music in the background ?
Interesting story but I had to stop halfway because the background music covered the voice; poorly designed and frustrating.
The story I've heard was that the 109 could in fact out turn the Spitfire (early war especially). However in practice a Spitfire pilot could dare to take his machine nearer the stall in a turn compared to a 109 pilot because the Spitfire pilot would feel the approach of a stall far more clearly than the 109 pilot. Stalling during a circling tail chase with an enemy plane could be fatal so the average 109 pilot may have been over cautious.
The reason for the background music is the man making this video doesn't want you to perform be able to hear what he is saying.
I learned about 'wash out' building RC model aircraft 20 years ago...I never knew the Spit had 'wash out' until now...I visited Mitchells grave in Southampton a few years ago...
Hello, really loved the video! I was wondering what are the positive aspects and why did the designers opt for a double ellipse planform instead of a fully elliptical design?
So now i completely understand, why i hate Spit in War Thunder game. And it looks like FM in this game is correct😕. This plane in game fly like light moto-glider with too large wings with inadequate power in additional engine. It wasn't my image of this plane when i readed many books about heros who piloted it🤨.
Thank you James, another home run. I would like to sugest a video on the Mk. VI/VII. I know with all the high altitude tech on that aircraft , it might be a very daunting task. I really love those pointy wing tips and the pressurized cockpit. Once again, well done. Hoping more are on the way.
NACA: National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics... Sorry, I'm from across the pond. Although Council sounds just as well. An awesome deep dive into the gorgeous structure known as the Spitfire wing. Hope there are more videos in the queue. See I speak the Kings english.
The background music is so annoying, sometimes is hard to hear what you are saying
As I understand it, the 1/4 chord is called Aerodynamic Centre and it's the point about which the moment generated by the lift force doesn't change with angle of attack. This is very useful to calculate longitudinal static stability.
Learned so much I was unaware of. A much loved subject. Thank You Sir!
Thanks James. The brand new technology of surf foil......inspired this brand model Spitfire..........ruclips.net/video/SsYSRtDp3iw/видео.html. Just amazing.
Interesting. Rather immobile, relaxed presentation. The music is major distraction for me...I stopped watching at 10 minutes due to the annoying music. It's a shame because the subject is so interesting and important.
exelent vid but the muzak I do feel spoils alot for us non english ....
I do like the background music. Very fitting.
Not bad James. Let me counter with a few facts. I wouldn't give so much credit to the alleged german influence on the Spitfire wing. The benefits of the elliptical wing were originally defined by english aerodynamicist Frederick Lanchester in 1906-7. Yes, Prantle continued the math, but the results were published as the Lanchester-Prandtl wing theory in 1918. Also, the He70 is often given erroneous credit for influencing Mitchell as RJ had used the elliptical wing on numerous occasions including the racing plane, the S4. As for the flush riveting, Mitchell had used that on his S5 racing plane. The real issue was whether flush riveting was value added in mass production. Yes, Mitchell wasn't too concerned about the wing shape, but the Ministry continually changed the specs. So when they dictated 8 guns vs 4 guns, the Supermarine team really had no choice but to use the broad chord elliptical shape. The thin wing concept was definitely a proven concept by Mitchell's racing planes, not by the He70 (much thicker t/c ratio than the fighters). The He70 also had a very low wing loading, unlike a fighter. Washout was also not a new concept, but kudos for honourable mention of Shenstone, the truffle hound. Yes he returned to England with the NACA 2200 series solution, but also the large wingroot fairing first used by the Northrop Alpha and Gamma aircraft (for reducing interference drag - which was missing on the He70) developed in the US wind tunnel at GALCIT. Overall a B+, but I'd recommend toning down the German and He70 influence.
... additionally, it would be nice to give credit to the british who were experimenting with boundary layer reduction research on aircraft in the 30's, research which NACA's Jacobs used to further the so called "laminar flow" wing of the Mustang. While we're at it, Meredith should be recognized for the Meredith effect radiator ducting configuration used somewhat on the Spit, and moreso on the Mustang.
Mitchell did not use an elliptical wing on any of his seaplane racers. They were constant chord until the wingtips which were very similar to many designs of that era.
The Heinkel He-70 was a very big influence on the designers at Supermarine while developing the Spitfire. The Gunther brothers worked for Heinkel and had used elliptical wings on several designs for sport aircraft prior to the design of the He 70. The one thing that Mitchell’s group arrived at was combining two different ellipses to place the spar in the right place. The earlier work at Heinkel used a single ellipse, and thus needed two spars. While the initial flights of the He 70 prototype did not use a fillet, that was soon added. The wing was very smooth, due it being constructed of plywood skins, while the fuselage was built from many conical section of metal. The sight imperfections of the fuselage were filled in and sanded smooth which added weight. One interesting fact was that Rolls Royce obtained a single He-70 to use while developing the Merlin engine. Since it was capable of nearly twice the power of the BMW normally used, it made the He 70 much faster than most military fighters at that time.
@@bobdible8608 you've been influenced by quasi-documentaries. The He70 wing was engineered entirely for a different purpose and structure. Planform is only one aspect of a wing. Mitchell used the elliptical wings on the S-4 and othe aircraft, but metal technology had to wait a decade before he could make it strong enough for that t/c ratio on the spitfire.
and so to bed
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Perhaps some other airplanes that may have availed themselves of these ideas? The P-47 Thunderbolt? Or, in a more "retro" mode, the De havilland Dragon Rapide, with extremely thin, narrow semi-elliptical wings, of course, in a biplane configuration because it made the structure much stronger, considering the wing shape and the fact that this aircraft was made largely out of wood. It, of course, was much slower than a fighter aircraft !
Incredible information. Thank you so much !!!! I consider this video the bible for the Spitfire wing history.
Fascinating James - thankyou.
I spent hrs on my phone trying to find out what an eliptical wing actually IS. After watching this I still haven't got a clue.
Induced drag is not dependent on the wing thickness. Induced drag is drag produced due to the creation of lift. Aspect ratio definitely has an effect on induced drag, thickness not really.
To be pedantic: a wing doesn't stall at a certain velocity, it stalls at a certain angle.
Isn’t velocity not only speed, that the concept of velocity takes into account the direction of the speeding object, this vector takes into account the angle of attack. Am I right?
If we assume steady and level flight then you could equate a certain velocity to stalling.
Wonderful video. I had prior watched a video on the Heinkel 70 and on seeing its elliptical wing thought, that cannot be a coincidence. Very informative, thank you.
this man has the biggest willy in the south east , Porky
this man has an extremely big willy,,, outrageous ,,MR Porky
Well done sir, fantastic information ,very enjoyable and informative. Thank you
Fantastic video. Loved the explanation of the neutral point and C.G. A little confusing around the N.P. and the aerodynamic centre. Second point: is there any information anywhere as to moving the engine forward an inch or two to help bring the C.G. range forward? Having flown both a 3/4 scale Spit and a 1:1 Spit I can say : it is in the wing!!!! The nicest wing I have EVER flown.
Class video, should make more, many could learn from you
Great video
Awesome video, and the music is excellent, it really gives life to the history and passion that obviously went into the design of such a cool design like the spitfire 😎
Great video , but no music please
Would be very interested in any more of these
Wonderful video, lots of great information. Could you do one on the Sea Fury wing?
I find the design of the control stick of the Spitfire with the loop a bit strange unlike other fighters like the Bf109 or P51 Mustang. Please make a video on the cockpits and control sticks of fighter aircraft of WW2.
Habibah Sarip: The design of the Spitfire control stick is a stroke of genius, pivoting as it does near the top of the column rather at the cockpit floor as others do, gives far more room to move it, if you have a chance look at one in real life, you will quickly see the advantage of this design.
In my opinion the reason for the spade grip is that if you are pulling out of a dive or wrapped up in a hard turn it’s easy to use your other hand to grab on and add some pulling leverage. And try sitting in a chair and imagine being in a cockpit, now put you right hand out to grasp the grip and see where your hand naturally grips, for me it’s would be the top right hand side of the grip with my hand at a 45 deg angle. Not straight up and down.
Spade grip allows two handed operation to leverage the ailerons at high speed because of the lack of leverage due to the short pivot arm for lateral motion. The stick was jointed as it were because the cockpit was so narrow a floor pivot laterally would contact the pilots legs and prevent full aileron deflection. When the pivot is moved up it clears the legs but now has far less leverage, taking two hands above aprox. 250mph.
An excellent explanation of a a much loved aircraft. Your detailed yet beautifully explanation of how and why the wing shape and construction came about. Ironically, some its German origins, was completely new to me. This give a grater understanding why so many pilots loved the plane and its superiority over the Me 109. I would be very interested to hear more regarding why the Me 109 wasn't as good, and how it to was constructed.
The Germans did not contribute really to the Spit wing. That's a lot of nonsense. Mitchell and his team were responsible for the elliptical wing. He'd used it many times before including his S4 racing plane in 1925. The benefits of the elliptical concept was first published by Englishman Fredrick Lanchester in 1907. Prandtl did the math & published his work as the Lanchester-Prandtl wing theory in 1918.
I’m glad I just stumbled onto your channel. Well presented. Thank you.
Great info, but the volume is set so low it's barely audible.
I am by no means an engineer myself but I find in my one hundred year old dictionary a formula for aerodynamic properties of any body in which frontal section is one of the factors. To my layman’s mind it then would always make sense to thrive for thinner wings! How would Hawker’s chief engineer not have been aware of that?
That mistery is beyond me... Sidney Camm was no fool... how could he believe that thick wings would not effect drag... carrying on to the Typhoon and only correct it with the Tempest. Allmost can't believe it... but hey... there's history for you!
Wing design is a compromise - if the wing is 'too thin' then it may not be strong enough for dogfighting, plus you need sufficient space for the undercarriage, guns, fuel, and aileron hinges.
@@johndean4998 I can certainly agree to that!
See NACA Technical Report TR-460, 1933. The characteristics of 78 related airfoil sections from tests in the variable-density wind tunnel. Airfoil selection isn't about minimum drag. Its about maximum lift/drag ratio for *most designers. But for Shenstone it was about Maximum lift to minimum drag ratio, or speed-range index. Including trim drag and wing torsion reduction thru reduced pitching moment found in the forward camber sections.
Very much enjoyed your video thanks
Excellent video, it expands on fragments I've read but not fully understood and beautifully brings it all together
Brilliant video.
Great information packed video. There are lots of aspects of the Spitfire I would like you to cover. One being the development and impact of propeller designs during the WW2 period. Another being engine development. Allied vs Axis. Best regards Per E.
Well I could have listened all day! Very good.