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LifeAfterLandmark
Добавлен 3 янв 2024
Have you participated in Landmark Education's "Education"?. Let's talk about the good times, the bad times and all the times in between, what's Life AFTER Landmark like for you, that period of time where "graduates" live the life they/we love and live it powerfully. I'm particularly interested in speaking with people who were involved in the leadership bodies.
Anne Peterson's life after Landmark, what's been happening?
After a few weeks of silence we thought we'd simply press record and explore what happens with this one question. We went into different tangents as we do, free flowing in one direction then the other.
In a way this is a light hearted conversation about pivotal questions for humans, or, the human potential movement.
In a way this is a light hearted conversation about pivotal questions for humans, or, the human potential movement.
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Видео
It's already time to talk about Landmark's Life After Landmark!!
Просмотров 668Месяц назад
Anne Peterson, author of "Is This a Cult?" joins me again with an update on Landmark's state of affairs since she published her book 7 March this year - they've filed for bankruptcy and made a huge cut back in staff. We talk about how this could have happened, was it the pandemic or were they already destined for closure pre-Covid?
Ann Betz shares (some of) her Life After Landmark
Просмотров 262Месяц назад
Now that we have covered some of the background it seems the perfect time to ask Ann what has happened in her life since she left Landmark's Education.. and what was the pivotal moment that had her choose to remove herself? This conversation completes our intention to close the loop we opened. Next week, Ann will be podcasting with Brian Nord, and other interesting channels are opening up for h...
Forking Landmark with Ann Betz
Просмотров 268Месяц назад
in our previous conversation we touched briefly on other companies that use Landmark's "ways" to develop what has now become an industry, in computer language it's called "forking". Ann's been involved in two such companies and shares some of her experience, knowledge and quirky way of explaining some of the differences between them and Landmark. Yet again we haven't covered all we intended, wh...
Exploring that very fine line between transformation and exploitation.
Просмотров 389Месяц назад
Anne and I dive into agreements, what each of us "make them mean" (as we would say in Landmark). We navigate our way through coercion vs giving people the freedom to participate voluntarily.. and all the murky stuff in between. We touch on giving people room to negotiate the terms and conditions.. and prepare ourselves for future conversations that enable people to TRULY choose.
To agree or not to agree... that is the hook.
Просмотров 279Месяц назад
agreements begin in the very early days and build over time as more response-ability is given to the people assisting - and growing the enterprise known as Landmark Education. Riley explains the steps to what Landmark call "leadership"
Ann Betz and Fruit of the Poisonous Tree
Просмотров 2972 месяца назад
An applied neuroscientist with a sub-speciality in trauma, Ann connected to share some of her perspective on life after landmark. The topics she's raising are well worth opening the channel to explore at a deeper level. Today, the beginning we touch on a few of those topics to give you a sense of how conversations with Ann could develop. What I'm particularly interested in are the forks that ha...
Riley rips the Introduction Leaders program apart
Просмотров 4872 месяца назад
As promised we... well, we start to and then we go off track a little... we take the leadership program apart, and some of what Riley shares has me horrified. Has me wonder what do people from the early days think about the state of Landmark now??
Continuing conversations with Anne Peterson, where is the exit?
Просмотров 3802 месяца назад
what I'm finding with the theme of this channel is that with the (so far) few people willing to speak about their lives AFTER participating in Landmark's Education, there is a sense of freedom in the room. I know for myself, once Chris Shelton gave me the space to talk, I couldn't stop.. and it's a bit like this with these conversations. There is a LOT to talk about, and by the same token there...
Meet Riley Wilson, he was an introduction leader with Landmark Education
Просмотров 4802 месяца назад
... and... he has lived through 3 iterations of the Introduction Leaders program, which now no longer exists. I was curious to learn about what Landmark's like now compared to back then, if anything's rrreeeeallly changed at all. What do you think?
conversations with Anne Peterson part 3
Просмотров 3212 месяца назад
Today we talked about the differences between the Wisdom Course and Landmark's what they call "Education".... and put forth some ideas about trauma within the Rosenberg family. Given that there's a whole lot more to discuss, Anne and I have organised ourselves to upload one of these video's every two weeks, and I'm planning on the next one going live. If you're online at 7.30amAEDT please put t...
The conversation continues "Is This A Cult" author Anne Peterson shares more of her history
Просмотров 4783 месяца назад
I know, the title is Life AFTER Landmark... however there's a lot of background to uncover first, to truly grasp the intensity of having been involved with Landmark in the first place. We touch on why it could be that people are afraid to talk, well, that's what we intended and the dynamics of the conversation took us in a round about way of uncovering the reason. Anne has a private Facebook gr...
"Is This a Cult" author Anne Peterson shares some of her Life After Landmark
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.3 месяца назад
Well, it's a beginning, there was so much to discuss... we did touch a little on Life After Landmark, and how many people struggle with their Landmark "skills". Anne also gave an overview of the grand structure of Joan, Harry and Werner's Enterprise. Or is it only Werner's enterprise? We ask the questions to get some answers... maybe if you're listening and you have some information to share......
First interview with an ex-staff person, meet "X"
Просмотров 4575 месяцев назад
X prefers to keep the black screen up during this interview and she gives the reason for that, it's probably not what you're thinking! here she goes into detail about her life after Landmark and why she was drawn to the organisation - like a moth to a flame. Now that the first one is done, I sense it's the first of many more, she has a lot to say.
I loved that statement: The answer to a question is nearly as valuable as the journey that the question opens up
Great coversation! Too many things to comment on. Thanks Dale and Anne.
Anne, I appreciate your anecdotal assessment of w/ and w/o Landmark as this relates to personal development. Growing up in the CA, the belly of Human Potential Movement beast, I've noticed the same thing for donkey's years....and, certainly, in the so-called coaching field. I've just never understood the perceived need to transform oneself, or other people. For me, it, transformation, is akin to what we now call "luxury beliefs," and luxury in the sense that most humans don't have the financial or time resources to concern themselves with introspection and self-improvement. Maybe, this is a blessing?
Shit
Dale… please improve your sound quality in the future. Thank you
Not sure what is all this talk about "the work" and the company and how its going to go forward etc. It is a money making machine, based on free work and selling conecepts and experiences that you bring about. Everything that is not build on a pillar of integrity will collaps eventually, so will Landmark. Focus should be on recovery not about being worried about company that failed, brainwashed and used its customers.
I participated for many years 26+ at Landmark- when it came to source- yes got trained to source myself in the work- but ultimately I was left with "I" was the source of my results and life not Landmark - interesting- we all have our own experiences.
Chapter 7 bankruptcy is designed for businesses (or individuals) that want to liquidate their assets to pay off creditors and then cease operations. Under Chapter 7, a trustee is appointed to oversee the liquidation of the company's assets, and the business is usually dissolved after the process is complete. For restructuring purposes, a business would more likely use Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 allows a business to continue operating while it reorganizes its debts and other obligations under a court-approved plan. This type of bankruptcy provides the business with the opportunity to negotiate with creditors and potentially emerge stronger and more financially stable. It is my understanding that Landmark Worldwide filed for Chapter 7.
Yes and my understanding is it's just one shell company
@@kristenpereira4113 Well, NXIVM had over 80 shell companies, none of which we ever hear about.
I am currently researching Erhard's "prison projects". I believe these were conducted under the umbrella of "Prison Possibilities" and were executed by Erhard and 'volunteers'. I am particularly interested in something called "The Lompoc Project"....whereby, the efficacy of est was measured among a prison population w/ control group. I believe these experiments were carried out a Lompoc State Prison (CA), San Quentin Prison (CA) and at other venues. The time frame would be 1972-1975. The only published research results I am aware of are dated 1975. I would be interested in speaking to any former est/Landmark member who has information about this work in prisons.
interesting I'm curious to hear more about these experiments too. I'm always wary of data being biased, if this were an independent study the results could have been very different.
@@LifeAfterLandmark The study at Lompoc Prison was paid for by the Werner Erhard Foundation.
Common to virtually all LGAT organizations that I am aware of is the use of large cadres of volunteers. I wonder if the reliance on volunteer labor prevents these entities from professionalizing. It seems to me that absent a labor agreement, such workers operate w/o a range of legal protections.
yes, THIS Leslie... they are operating inside their own laws which is a form of anarchy... far from professional. I doubt it would be possible for Landmark (and other LGAT's) to compete in the market if they paid staff award rates. It's an unrealistic, unsustainable, and illegal business model.
@@LifeAfterLandmark I saw the same business model in the ICF (International Coach/ing Federation), 40 employees, 400 volunteers. The rationale is that because the organization is 'international', they need helpers in each country. Imagine that you introduce program materials in English and you need 40+ translations; this is where the helpers step in; and they manage events, and spend hours each week proselytizing the organization.
"Using standard business practices" is literally standard business practice. It's a for-profit company, people!
standard business practices means paying people award rates... with overtime, sick leave, etc. And that, they refuse to do.
@@LifeAfterLandmark I get that. Your critique is a little muddled though - it veers between a critique of capitalism and standard business practices when Landmark adheres to them, and a critique of Landmark when they do not. I think the strongest argument would be against deviation from standard or legally-required business practice where it exists, as you point out in your comment.
@@sitapati please give examples of what you hear me saying as critique and muddled.
Here is a challenge for you: what is the distinction "Transformation"?
I can distinguish many distinctions, but this I hear being said all the time ("transformation") - but what is it as a distinction?
@@sitapati rigorously, it's a shift in the locus of identity One goes from being their Identity to having their Identity Integrity is the foundational distinction The moral hazard is that Integrity gets used as a cudgel (morality) to influence people into doing what isn't in their best interest
@@user-gf4wf3mx1q thank you, that is clear.
Bottom line, if you put the work, the work works. Else it is loat in a few days. Regarding the business model. It is like a bank: you have money you keep in the bank to get interest. In landmark you keep participating in programs to keep hetting the value and meeting the people you love. Perfect
it depends. Are you talking about being a paying participant or a non paid assistant. There's a huge difference between two forms of agreeing/contracting with this company.
They could have fixed their business by not using the distinction enrollment to turn people into sales bots. That began eroding me right away.
agreed, it's the one practice that if they changed many would return.
They call him “source?” wow, I guess the total Scientology rip off is actually a thing.
Im so conflicted. Still an IL but ive been feeling concerns for a year.
well, good on you for at least acknowledging your concerns. That's a GREAT start. Keep tuning in to all of the discussions that are starting, you're not alone and you could hear the common ground we all went through before getting out and (finally) talking.
@LifeAfterLandmark yea its so confronting. I've been around this work for 30 years and we turn ourselves inside out to be 'coachable' and evolve into people we didn't think we could be. I owe sooooo much to this work. Legitimately the quality of my relationships business and everyday life really IS much better because of it. Landmark was always a good relationship that I occasionally have an argument with. But what I struggle with is the lack of transparency. And then the whole, if not this, then what? Because what I am clear on is I do have a group of peers that keep me empowered. I'm kinda scared to cast all that aside and be on my own. There's many many different emotions and angles to it all working through this.
@DaleDickins thanks I appreciate that. It's a little heartbreaking as I'm sure many feel. Being candidated was a very proud moment for me. And was looking toward seminar leader. But yyen it kinda started to feel like seminar leader was 80% learning how to sell programs and 20% leading seminars. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows
@@personalwatching9312 I feel for you, sounds like Landmark is a huge part of your life still, after all these years. The struggle is real when you cannot be heard with valid concerns within that organisation. I appreciate the difference being there has made for you, it IS incredible work that gets done within those closed walls, and yet, while parts of me thrived, other parts shrivelled up and died. Being there became the same as living with my mother all over again, being in a closed space with somebody in complete denial as to what was happening as it happened. I thought I was going crazy. People unwilling to be transparent and acknowledge certain truths make an already complex life much more complicated.
and, for what it's worth, living without these support networks is REALLY where their Education lives. You will have to apply everything you've learned.. as they say, it's where the rubber hits the road. From how you're communicating thru these brief comments, I can hear you've got what it takes. Support networks are being formed outside of that tight circle now,. There are many people willing to support you through the process... or, when you're ready, you can be part of a network supporting others as the company collapses.
For every party who had the resources and backbone to sue Landmark for damages, there are probably a thousand injured parties.
IF ONLY we had the true numbers... of a company driven by statistics. I wonder if they keep them... number of suicides, lawsuits, and yeah, people affected in a negative way from their transformational courses. I wonder.
@@LifeAfterLandmark I believe they have these numbers and they could be surfaced through a litigation-based discovery process, or a congressional review (what is really needed.)
@@leslietaylor1396 I'm not so sure they'd have accurate figures, if they'd be documenting the people who left with physical, mental issues. Given that (they claim) their education is for life - there's no follow up to measure the success of their product/services.
I remember making my "declaration" at the Forum. I had to think up something fast, because there was a lot of pressure to "being" something and creating that possibility. I made something up and felt stupid doing it, because it was facile. I did get a few good things from the Forum/Advanced Course, but that faded over a few days and I was back to just being me with the same problems and hopes and my own "possibilities" (that I made for myself). And if Landmark really, truly wanted to test its effectiveness, they have to have an independent study done over years to track a lot of graduates and see what happened to them over time. You two always have such great discussions! Thanks, Dale and Anne.
Thanks Michael... and the pressure... what if I choose the wrong one??? Independent Study, I agree, and how interesting would that feedback be... I have my hand up :)
@@LifeAfterLandmark I choose chococlate. And I choose never to be involved with that place again. As for a study/evaluation. I think LM would hate that being done, even when good business practice says it should be done.
The movie is called "Goodbye Lenin", Dale
Thanks Roxanne. I lived in Germany for 3 years, in November 1989, when the wall came down. This movie struck a chord with me, a tsunami of people from the East Bloc arrived.. really cautiously. Very easy to spot, they looked like they'd stepped out of a 1940's movie, driving cars that sounded like lawn mowers in one of three shades of beige. The clothing, and behaviour was so different... hundreds of people in the village I lived, walking around suspiciously, very wary and at the same time, curious... questioning... was the West really like what they'd been told??
One of my favorite Wernerisms was all about how we have to continue to water the tree (of transformation) and not just pick the fruit. In other words, do the next course!
Too funny... Wernerisms!!!
Dale, the Forum Leaders “killer shares” were so verbatim that people in the back of the room would sometimes mouth along with them!! 😳
I really did enjoy Randy McNamara's poop in the fishbowl bit.
@@roxanne533 and the helicopter accident that left a wicked scar down his face.
yep.... I remember being confused, saying to the course supervisor "he shared that last time though"... the CS... "yeah, it's his killer share.... you'll learn in the ILP"
@LifeAfterLandmark I don't remember that one but I was only there as an IL for evening sessions
@@roxanne533 oh, actually Roxanne, it could have been that he shared that in staff meetings. Ohhh.. the memories of Randy come flooding back.
Staff are being told there's a waiting list to participate in the in person Landmark Forums. Is that true?
55:00 I'd love to know what podcast Anne was referring to, was it a presentation by David Emerald?
12:00 Being coachable - put aside your own thinking - doing as instructed, 14:00 being ordinary vs being extraordinary 16:00 being in integrity, 19:00 your thinking vs their thinking - being a possibility, 20:00 complete vs incomplete, clean slate theory - reinvention, 32:00 agreements - being our word, 37:00 effects of participating - hyperarousal dopamin theory (John Hunter, PhD), 45:00 facts vs stories, 1:00:00 gossiping
Love the paradox conversion: “It’s great to keep your word and life is complicated.” I could have so used that during my 25 years of participation.
If you're making an assumption, that means you're creating a story. That means you're making up a story when you assume an agreement. How does Landmark reconcile that with their teaching that we shouldn't make up stories about things?
They got your feedback ssns are altering what didn't work i don't work there
They got your feedback and are altering what didn't work
Another great conversation! I tend to lean toward the Budhhist saying "Before [Landmark] enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water." Thanks, Dale and Ann!
Very interesting discussion. I have a good friend who was raised in the Church of Scientology until age 16 by OT-VII parents. Her parents didn't leave because they stopped believing, they were in the huge wave of long-time members who left in the few years after LRH died because they didn't agree with the changes David Miscavaige was making. They became part of the independent Scientologist movement and still held the beliefs without belonging to the organization. After she graduated from college she got very into Landmark for a few years, even volunteering for them. When I asked her about it, she told me she felt "comfortable" in Landmark because it was like the good parts of Scientology without the crazy science fiction.
woah, how interesting. I call it #ScientologyLite.. and then I wonder... is that more dangerous than being outright crazy? Landmark's subtleties are really difficult to pinpoint as warning signs for danger.
Me too! The best thing I got out of Landmark was hearing the stories of others. I became far more compassionate and patient overall. It's truly amazing to see how well we get along as a whole knowing we are all going through our stuff currently or have gone through something big in the past
Thanks Jennifer, agreed, it was really comforting to be with people from such a huge variety of backgrounds in a room talking about the same things. I remember being fascinated seeing people I thought had "made it" in life in a room sharing about parts of their life they were stuck. I was not alone.
Thank you Ann and Dale!
my pleasure contecrusoe :)
This is great work! Thank you for speaking out!
Again with the responsibility collapse? Response - ability. You cannot control what happens to you, you can control how you respond. That is the sum total of the responsibility distinction. It's Victor Frankl. It's not "it's your fault", not "there are no criminals". It is your response is 100% in your control.
Well said... what I learned back then (the Landmark way) is that it's my relationship to what happened that I can shift. I am unable to shift what happened, then the least I can do is manage how I relate to it. At the time I thought this teaching/learning was Landmark specific, that 'they' had created this concept... now I know different.
@@LifeAfterLandmark The movie "Transformation: The Life and Legacy of Werner Erhard" shows that the misinterpretation of "he/they are saying that it is your fault!" (morality/blame) has been there all along - both for critics and even for graduates. "Who were you being that you got hit by a bus?" is a misapplication. The powerful application is: "OK, that happened. Now what to do? How to respond to it?" and "if you look at it, what could you have done different and hence will do differently in the same or similar circumstances in the future?" This moves you from being a victim of the past to being the master of the future; and gives you an access to elevated performance in the future.
It feels like Landmark is fading fast.
agreed Rick. They simply can not control people outside of a control room
SCARF status certainty autonomy relatedness fairness - I got it from a book called Your brain at work.
Those are all things that if threatened will trigger people.
L Ron Hubbard was definitely a narcissicist and it's suggested that he might have had frontal lobe epilepsy. This was another great discussion! Thanks, Dale and Ann. Even for us lowly graduates, there's a lot about Landmark that messed us up - and it sticks.
THANK YOU for listening and taking the time to add your thoughts Michael, much appreciated :)
@@LifeAfterLandmark I never miss an episode!
Temporal lobe epilepsy is what we are supposing Hubbard suffered from, not frontal lobe epilepsy. Just to clarify that rather important difference.
@@ChrisSheltonMsc Thanks for clarifying, Chris, I get things mixed up - blame my advancing years, lol
wonderful, thank you,..I really learned from this and resonated with so much of it!
Thanks Ellie :)
The ICF compliance system ONLY 'regulates' infringement of the use of its brand, or fee disputes. It has zero capability to discipline coaches for boundaries breaches such as sexual and emotional abuse (common in my experience). Prior to the ascendancy of this organization, corporate coaches were required to carry professional liability insurance. I think this practice has fallen by the wayside owing to the illusory idea that the ICF is regulating the field. Were I seeking a coach for organizational work (or life coaching for that matter) I would look for someone who had academic credentials in fields relevant to people and organization development and, ideally, some experience in leadership roles in actual businesses. An ICF-certified coach could be a former waiter, English teacher, DJ, or long term Landmark participant. I have seen all of this.
ICF also has an ethical review board and can remove a credential. They DO review ethical complaints. Most professional coaches I know DO carry liability insurance, especially if they are working in the organizational space, because many companies require it.
@@annbetz1 The ability to arbitrate ethical issues may be new. I applaud this development if it is so. I filed complaints against two ICF coaches and was not satisfied with the response. In the first case, an ICF mentor coach defrauded me and other participants in a training exercise. In the second case, a local coach was misrepresenting himself as a 'regional' representative of an ICF accredited coach training program. No actions were taken by the ICF. As far as I am concerned, a compliance function must be performed by neutral third parties and not people who have conflicts of interest, e.g., are receiving coaching referrals from the network. Good to hear on the liability insurance.
Coaching in organizations 'emerged' in the 1930's and was the purview of consulting psychologists. There are over 100 research studies dating back to that period. The male partner of the Kimsey House's was delivering 'est' programs in Japan w/ Werner Erhard dating back to 1975. James Flaherty who founded New Ventures West was an 'est' facilitator. Newfield Network, as you said, was founded by parties who had extensive engagement with Erhard. I know many parties who participated in Newfield Network coach training and who described a program VERY similar to 'est'. Participants, some of whom were sent to the program by their organizations, were required to publicly 'confess' their darkest secrets. I have heard descriptions of meltdowns and seizures occuring in these programs.
Hi Leslie, what's your source on Henry Kimsey-House leading with Werner in Japan? Not saying you're wrong, that is just something I had NOT heard and I spent a lot of time with both the Kimsey-House's (I co-authored a book with Karen) where I learned a lot about their history. Newfield was funded by Julio Olalla, who was one of Werner's advisors. I did not know about New Ventures West (another coaching school), so that's interesting too! LMK if you want to connect offline, you have a lot of interesting info. The International Coach Federation was founded in 1995 and most folks in the industry hold that coaching as we know now it predated the ICF by maybe about 10 years at most. What was happening in organizations before that I am sure bore some resemblance, but I don't think it was the same as what is taught now.
@@annbetz1 The CTI website is where I read this. It may no longer be on the site.
@@annbetz1 I would be happy to connect offline. I was trained by David B. Peterson, Ph.D, an IO Psychologist who did seminal research in the field and went on to head the Global Coaching program at Google. Peterson was attached to PDI (my employer at the time) and came out of the tradition of consulting psychology. The coaching practice I supported at PDI between 2006-2012 was research-based and HIGHLY evolved. I found what I was doing in this context to be vastly more sophisticated than what I encountered in the approximately 180 hours of ICF training I participated in. As for the est/Landmark and coaching-related timeline, I have spoken to early associates of Erhard who told me that est was placing 'coaches' in Silicon Valley firms dating back to the 70's. The other organization that was doing this was Scientology.
@@leslietaylor1396 I lost your message on FB! Can you email me at ann@beaboveleadership.com?
@@annbetz1 Sorry, I thought I had replied to this. I believe I saw that history on an early iteration of CTI's website.
I think you're right on Ann, at least in my case, young plus from a challenging family system equals more vulnerable to adopting an LGAT as their replacement family.
I think you're right on Ann, at least in my case, young plus from a challenging family system equals more vulnerable to adopting an LGAT as their replacement family.
YES! Landmark becomes a surrogate family.
Back in the day, there was a concept called "Power Source - Power Feeder". The power source's role was to make the Power Feeder, right - always, no matter what.
Thanks for your feedback Jenet, it's the first I've heard of power source/feeder... making management right was what we were TOLD was the way forward.
Such a rich conversation. I recognized myself here, especially since I started in the NY center at 17 years old in 1977, grew up in a chaotic family, and also assisted in logistics on the weekends while I attended college. I did the training, started assisting 2 days later, and didn't stop for about 17 years. It was in Anne Peterson's Wisdom course at 40, that I figured out I used est/Landmark as surrogate parents as I sorely lacked the training I needed to function in so many ways as an adult. I'm grateful for that training, yet it certainly came couched in the "ickies." I love the golden age of healing from cults and narcissists. I became a mental health therapist with that aim in mind, and these conversations lately are helping my own healing I forgot I needed to do as I face this cognitive dissonance. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
John Hanley was the founder
Of Lifespring I am assuming :)
@@annbetz1 haha yes 😊 great episode Anne, thank you!
The lifespring founder was leading Mind Dynamics and Leadership Dynamics with Werner, they both branched out at about the same time.
thank you.
You're right, I had it wrong that LifeSpring came from est. Est was early 1972 and LifeSpring was 1974 according to Outrageous Betrayal by Steven Pressman.
People can get habituated to the influx of adrenalin (and dopamine -- but let's not ascribe everything to dopamine, it's a player, but only one of many in terms of LGATs and the brain/human system). A really great example of this is the movie The Hurt Locker, about a man who defuses bombs in Iraq but can't deal with day to day life because he's so habituated to the excitement. There's a great scene where he's in the frozen food section of a grocery store in the US and he can't figure out what to do (so he reups to do another tour of service).
So true Ann … when I left staff it took years and lots of other work for me to handle being still.
Would Anne please provide a link to Chris's talk she mentioned near the end about "being cause"? I find looking at the distinctions in a "healthy" way, like Anne & Dale discussed agreements here, is extremely helpful in keeping the "good stuff" without the culty parts. Thx!
I've concluded that for most participants, there is no life after Landmark, only trying to 'fix' Landmark. The ICF (International Coaching Federation) mentioned at 1:14:00> is an iteration of est/Landmark. It was 'founded' by one of Erhard's generals and a fellow est graduate. Its competency model was, with one exception, created by a panel of est/Landmark members, who neglected to employ standard research methodology. "X" or "Y" coaching method is 'good; because we, 'successful coaches,' say it is. Maxims like the client/coachee is "happy, joyous and free" and possessed of the tools necessary to personal transformation are not based on any measurable reality. While the ICF postures itself as an organization that "teaches nothing," its coach mentors collect sizable fees for training the gullible in pseudoscience. Additionally, many/most? ICF accredited coach training programs utilize stressor techniques like long hours and public confessionals. As for ethical protections, the ICF has convinced people who should know better that the coaching field must self-regulate, which translates into "must be regulated by the ICF". The sphere of ICF compliance (performed by untrained individuals with major conflicts of interest) encompasses mis-use of the brand or fee disputes. Working with an ICF certified coach does not does not afford the coachee redress for many forms of professional misconduct Participating in an ICF-accredited coach training program confer no protection from the psychological damage a meaningful percentage of participants experience in est/Landmark programs.
From a South Park episode, seemed relevant: ruclips.net/video/ifHjG4JKIOk/видео.htmlsi=E4tHcBev9iqHaTPp