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I think Dark Claw has a tremendous amount of upside potential. Good point about tying his art to his wealth. It probably helps further the illusion of him being amongst the financial elite of his world. Ah, ok. that tracks. I was reading about Dr. Strange Fate and I was wondering why I kept getting different interpretations (some said Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate, others said Dr. Strange and Professor X.) That makes more sense now.

I like that concept. Just passing the wealth on to himself and faking his own death to further draw the scent off who Dark Claw is. It would also be cool to the see the history in Wayne manor being history he actually lived

Two-Face was supposed to take the place of Max Shreck in earlier drafts. Catwoman killing Shreck would have been how Harvey turned into Two-Face at the end of Batman Returns

There are more than 4 timlines that build off of tim burtons films, out of all of them, the shomacher films and the batman 89 comics are absolutely not proper continuations of buryons movies, they share a past but are not the same universe.

@@sheriffhuntley6836 well, tbh there really is no same universe as those films there are multiple continuations to Batman Returns one being the Schumacher films another being the 89 comic and another being The Flash movie and there are plenty more

That’s interesting. What did you hate about X-men and love about No Way Home?

C'mon elaborate.

I SAID ELABORATE

@@SameBatChannel "because at least it didn't killed my childhood!"

@@gib2689 dammit

Thanks man. I appreciate it.

Thank you

This isn't in the same universe as Spectacular Spider-Man

@@Meyu-Sys I'm not talking about that

​@@cursedrax5439 Then what are you talking about

​@@leodemon8888 He's talking about the Spider-Man cartoon of the 90s! It's in the same greater story.

Thank you

The algorithm is a picky thing

Retcons aren’t planned.

Not exactly. Certain lines from the Schumacher films directly reference the Burton films such as: "Robin: Your family wasn't killed by a maniac. Batman: Yes, they were." (This confirms that Joker is still the killer of Batman's parents) "You make the kill but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you run out into the night to find another face and another and another until one terrible morning, you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life and you won't know why." (This is Batman's way of confessing how he killed Joker and Penguin. At the same time, he couldn't save Catwoman from blowing up herself and Max Schreck) "Chase Meridian: You like strong women??? I've done my homework or do I need a skin tight vinyl and a whip? Batman: I haven't had much luck with women." (This references Batman's failed relationships with both Catwoman and Vicki Vale.)

@loudboy317 ​​⁠Man, solid callbacks. I made this argument before about the Schumacher movies being canon to the Burton films but I never thought of those instances as points to support that argument. Great work.

@@SameBatChannel Only the fact that they share the same Alfred and Gordon (and other minor characters) should be enough in my opinion.

@@tipoc Plus, the Wayne murders flashback in Batman Forever is identical to the 1989 version.

I’ve watched that movie more times than I can count for decades and I just recently spotted it

​@SameBatChannel it means you like watch it over and over again😂

Nope. In the video, I said I’ve only seen films he’s directed based off comic book properties.

I see your point but I can’t see any version of Batman seeing human beings as “mere obstacles.” I think he values human life too much but if that is the case, why let the Joker live?

@@SameBatChannel But that's exactly the point; there's no version of Batman whose fear has been pushed way beyond his morals could withstand because he's never been to a scenario where that's viable on the movies. Affleck's Batman has been retired for more than a decade. So whatever happened between the Joker and him was long before. What brought him to such madness was the kryptonian invasion. Such power, desctruction and the very possibility of world extinction... he's never been exposed to that. That's why he went for murder against Superman but not for his vilains.

@@cair037 I still don’t follow you. There was a kryptonian invasion so he decided to just ruthlessly kill human henchmen? Killing those people isn’t fear. He’s going out of his way to do it. He wasn’t backed into a corner.

​@@SameBatChannel You're focusing on the kills rather than why they happened. They were consequences he didn't care because of a fear 'that turns good men cruel'. The objective was to kill Superman because he was an inhuman threat backed by humans. Lex met with politicians so as to create a kryptonite weapon using alien technology but the government didn't allow it. Humans defending its extinction bringer. That's exactly the point: he IS a Batman out of his way. It's Superman's humanity and sacrifice that brings him back on track. Take in account he was in Metropolis during Man Of Steel's event. He saw thousands die in front of his eyes. He could've been killed himself! He IS backed into a corner. If you think that's not enough to drive anyone nuts, I don't know what is.

Yeah, a little too heavy on the religious stuff for my taste

That's a great point

Agreed. I find the psychology behind him not killing far more interesting that him just offing nameless henchmen. Feels lazy imo.

Dude he killed for like 10 issues in the like 40s everything after that he's had a no kill rule.

Exactly. Be wants Batman to "break his one rule" and Batman refuses to do it. It's this game of cat and mouse.

I agree. I like how in Red Hood, he admits he WANTS to kill but he has to resist that urge on a daily basis.

True. WB lets directors have a lot of creative freedom but that can be good and bad.

Haha bingo

No, that's honest writing. Of course people who dishonestly calling themselves "fans" while outright denying 88% of all Batman versions thus far Including version by actual people that created the character, of course you wouldn't understand anything about honest writing and instead will call it lazy or bad.

@@FirstnameLastname-my7bz Since, when bad writing is equal to "honest writing" (and what exactly that even means) and no version of Batman, kills except a few "Elseworlds" versions that are not even Bruce Wayne such as Flashpoint Batman.

@@maxnetirtimon4121 *every* version of mainstream comics Batman killed except 1941-1969 period and new52 ones, and since "everything is canon" current motto at DC he also did in modern comics, doesn't matter if particular writer or "fans" want to pretend these moments never happened. Of course you wouldn't know what honest writing means, again, not unexpected considering how many hoops of mental gymnastics you willing to go through just to gatekeep 88% of character's history from the rest 22% while pretending to be fan of the whole character. Granted if you even aware of these instances in the first place.

​@@FirstnameLastname-my7bz Besides the point that NONE of the mainstream version of Batman killed (I mean if you read comics like Snyder does it doesn't surprise me that you think that way he literally thought in Frank milers Dark Night Returns he headshot the mutant holding the baby hostage) and besides that all superheroes were very different than to their present self and usually for the worst take Superman, for example, he was a bully who let Jimmy forcefully be married to a Gurilla and made Loise Lane fat so he could fat shame her just so he can teach her a "lesson" in humility and... which means till the 60s he was far from the Boy Scout We know and love him for it AND because everything is canon now this doesn't means we WANT to see an a$$hole superman TODAY and don't even let me start on how WonderWoman USED to be. you don't have a point here body. and still you didn't answer my question about honest writing.

In fact in *lethal* Batman comics by Gardner Fox (ie guy that actually gave him his first gadgets including batarang) he used sleep gas bombs (when he could) for a reason, If he wanted to take person non lеthally. Simply because it was time before multiple generations of people were pozzed with notion that violence can ever be perfectly safe. Especially violence administered by human without x ray vision and faster than speeding bullet reflexes to have any real control of force administered in a critical moment. There's a reason why in 1941 Ellsworth didn't just bаnned kills and kills with guns, but also extensive bеatings and kidnаps and torturе. It's funny when Zack is criticized by "fans" of comics that don't care about no kill code in Avengers movies (they have one too in comics since beginning and even in Superior Spider-Man it was important issue), while Zack (maybe Nolan and Reeves too) is The only director not pretending that violence or killing is a light concept that isn't worthy of any sort of attention. In MCU they literally quip after that (which Batman and Superman, and Robin DID in original pre 1941 comics, but DC Comics characters =\= Marvel characters, there's no post Avengers Captain America comics with Steve cracking lighthearted one after throwing brainwashed good guy from helicarrier, *even Ultimate Steve * didn't do that) And only one director to ever make truly non lethal superhero by All of her fights was Patty Jenkins in Wonder Woman 84 (but not in 2017). Which is also actually true to the very concept of the character by her actual creators, unlike this notion that Superman or Batman never nixed anyone or never Attempted to or that they both would rather place Their own feelings over safety of the people or safety of their own, which was never true for either creator's vision, maybe only for Finger in particular after Actually 100% non lethal 1941-1969 period in comics. Killings resumed in Bronze Age and Wonder Woman killed anyone for the first time only in Bronze Age either, nowhere earlier.

Also it's not only realistically he kills in video games, even Within video games he (or rest of his Robins) sometimes does Exactly same kind of punches or choking as Red Hood. With only difference when you looking at them Afterwards RH's detective vision will show 0 pulse while for Batfam they all just unconscious. And majority of Batgadgets in games inspired by Frank Miller (cape stunt is based on Dark Knight Strikes Again! ) and Burton films and Nolan ones.

Damn. This is a really good point I wish I would have added to the video

Right like with batfleck. You mean to tell me he will kill goons who kidnap Superman’s mom but not joker who killed robin

@@SameBatChannel Aw bless.. Maybe in a future video!

@@imverygerby Yeah it kind of just makes batmans and jokers dynamic feel like tom and jerry. They are secretly pals. Maybe i'm here for that

@@sunday1409 I agree with you. I always imagine them reminiscing in their own sick way as old men about their battles. I don't think either of them can truly let the thrill of the chase go. Robins & Batgirls will go on to have families, Harley will eventually grow a spine and leave her abuser but Batman and Joker are addicted to the each other.

Bale intentionally offed a truck driver in the thrid film because he had no other alternatives. The nuke was on the truck and he had to stop the druck quickly. It also offed thalia Afleck drove into mercs with his car and blew up mercs with his plane with full intention. There were other options in both alfecks scanrios but these were his choices. He could have also done the same to joker but i guess not

Zack doesn't know Batman or Superman from a hole in the ground! Just listen to the guy talk he really sounds like teenager that never grew up and his movies show it....look no further than the monstrosity Rebel Moon 🙄

And that is your opinion but if so it’s still hard for him to do such a thing and it’s at the very end of his Batman persona he is old. But I still hate this. It ignores the basics of the character.

And this is where you’re wrong. By adding false context to scene just so you can justify bad adaptation of Batman years later.

@@toatakanuva4846 I didn’t add false context; it’s called recognizing the underlying meaning.

Couldn't you make the argument that this was just an artistic choice to further draw parallels between Batman and the Joker? I think its an interesting theory and it works well, I just always interpreted it to further prove Joker's point that they aren't so different. I honestly go back and forth on this theory myself because on one hand, I think the story works better if he doesn't kill the Joker, but on the other hand it's really compelling. That being said, it's a far cry and (if true) a far more interesting story beat than anything Snyder did for Batman. I think in a universe where batman is openly committing murders, Joker wouldn't still be alive, and this is the case in the DCEU.

@@Ejerman it’s bad but okay let’s turn Batman into the punisher which already exists and as long as we allow Batman to kill whenever he wants the joker messing with Batman becomes so uninteresting.

It's a slippery slope.

He’s referring to how superheroes are culturally the modern day mythic gods like the Greek gods were in ancient times. Batman obviously isn’t a god in terms of powers.

@@SteveKilgore27 and he shouldn’t ever be viewed that way.

@@right8630 I don’t think you understand what is being said.

​​@@right8630Nope , he's right on point , that's the level Batman holds compared to other fictional heroes among lot of people , including me . Should or shouldn't be isn't the point here , it's how it is.

Zack doesn't know what the hell he's talking about...he sounds like a teenager that never grew up and his movies show it. Look no further than the monstrosity Rebel Moon 🙄

The Flash movie rebuilt the continuity by bringing in George Clooney.

So the idea is there are two timelines after Batman returns one leads to the Schumacher films and one leads to that comic

The rules for what’s canon and not canon are a little bit looser than that. I think of that more as an alternate timeline since Sam Hamm, who was the screenwriter for the original Burton Batman movies, wrote it but Burton had nothing to do with it. It was all Sam. Burton did produce the first Schumacher movie though. It would be like saying, Gotham Knight is a part of the Nolan universe. Warner Brothers marketed it as part of the Nolan universe and the writer of Batman Begins, wrote one of the shorts, but Christopher Nolan had nothing to do with it.

@@SameBatChannel That's true, but WB has recently officially said the Schumacher films aren't canon to the Burton ones (and, honestly, I'm happy they did that. The Schumacher films suck). Also, Burton's an in-name-only producer credit. He had nothing to do with the movie, but WB credited him to get butts in seats. Burton was much more involved with the story for Returns than he was the original. The story for Returns was written by Daniel Waters (with Wesley Strick doing uncredited punch-ups and edits here and there) with Burton contributing ideas. Sam Hamm did write an early script for the movie, but Burton rejected it. Hamm got credit because the Penguin and Catwoman were in his original draft.

Do you have a link with Warner Bros. stating this? I would be interested to read it. Fair point. I’m actually reading Batman in 1989 now. I know Burton was only a producer on Batman forever after he was fired in part because of McDonald’s lol.

@@KingdomHeartsBrawleroriginally they were established to be in the same universe

The new comic book series may actually introduce him u never know but I doubt it

Right? They sold out mighty quick the second time around

Thank you. Same. I missed a lot of this controversy too as I was too young. Keaton as always been Batman to me. I didn't know about his comedic chops till much later.