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My first prototypes had the ability to screw down a moving jaw to convert the vise to a single station. The compromise that turned out to be too big was the locating pins were not as robust as I wanted. The problem with doing it now is the 4 dowel pins are permanently fixed in the vise body to better do their job of fixing the fixed jaw. I have had enough people ask for what you are advising so I will make single station versions in the future. I will put the dowel pins on the end so a moving jaw can be screwed in place and use a fully threaded leadscrew with the head at the fixed end pulling the moving jaw to the fixed jaw so the screw doesn't extend out the end when closed. I will have to shorten the jaw carriers so the jaws can fully close so I will have to modify a few of the existing parts. I will also make some 2" and 3" vise bodies to conform to the SMW fixture plates. I have a bunch of ideas of different vise bodies all using the same jaws and jaw carriers to make during the next run and I have a 4" version that I will add once I have the 2" and 3" vises going smoothly, and selling well enough to justify it.

@@cgpmachining Its good to know that your going to make a single station version Ill have to get myself a set to replace my Mod vises when you release them.

@@joshuahuman1 Where is the best forum or such to talk with people using hobby cncs? I would like to learn more about what problems and issues they deal with on workholding.

It is possible but I am right handed, the door opens to the left and you want it fairly closed when hosing off the fixtures, and the rotaries are on the left.

To raise my Kurt vises high enough that I can reach them. Minimum spindle gage line to table is 9.8" on this machine.

You can rotate the 4th in the loading position with an optional switch, how much the 4th rotates with the button push is set in user data. You can call a pallet with a M code in the program, which is handy so you don't run the wrong program on the wrong pallet, which is very easy to do.

I don't think they would be needed if I used a production quality vise, this is a second. I only torqued the lead screw to 37% of max and I am sure it had backed off some because my spacer tube was crushed by the load. I normally don't intentionally create so much cutter forces when machining parts like I did for this test. If I was setting this up to make parts my machining strategy would be a lot different. To be honest, I thought the vise wouldn't be as stable as it was due to how I mounted it.

Thanks, I was wondering after posting this if it just looks like the last few I made. How well these vises worked without a tailstock is what is getting me all excited.

I will do a video on the vises and all of the options for holding them in a few weeks, until then you can get a better look at the vise body in the last video. I have been doing small parts 4th axis work like this for over 25 years and have a system down that hasn't changed in that length of time, it is what I tried after finding out dowel pins suck if you are swapping the fixtures between cycles. I will be offering them for sale soon and what is in this video will be around $450 with a set of jaws, with the end plates being extra. I will have some end plate fixturing but what you want really depends on your rotary and how you want to use them.

Yeah, no Haas for me, my other machine is a Kitamura. The Brother is nice but it is certainly optimized for production with zero compromises. That is great if it is what you want, but there are things about it that you won't like if you do more job shop type work. My phase converter says it is using around 4 amps during this video and very little air so they are certainly energy efficient.

These parts are made from 12L14, WOC is .031", and DOC is .875" on the ends, .5" for the first 4 passes on the sides, then .312" after that. I am using a 6 flute 3/8" end mill to rough with after going through 2 corn cob mills and tool wear was minimal after 125 parts so I will increase everything next time. I finish the sides with a 5/16" 5 flute mill and the surface finish is excellent when sidemilling and the floors are smooth with swirls after 30 parts or so. I will show the parts when I do a video on the vises.

I don't think Yamazen would like me quoting numbers and I doubt they would mean much since it has been 2 years since I bought it so I will refrain. I love the rotating table a lot more than I ever imagined I would, and will never have another production mill without one, unless I have a robot to go with it.

Get a quote from your yamazen dealer. They vaty alot dependigt on what spindle and magazine you choose

It is basic but here it is cgsw.us/ I only have knife sharpening stuff on it right now but will be adding a page for the vises soon-ish. Anything I make for guided sharpening will be on Edge Pros web site. I have the bodies of the first run done, am working on the jaw carriers now, and then have to make the jaws. The problem is once I get the vises done I have a job I am behind on that I need the vises to do. The next video will probably be making the jaw carriers using the new 2" 8 station vises

You apply sandpaper tape on them to sharpen knives in a guided sharpener.

No problem as long as you slow the blade speed down, even sawing them laying down in the vise. I no longer use it's highest speed even cutting aluminum as it just doesn't have the power. Once I got it to run full bars fine, after fixing the loose fixed jaw clamp mount, I no longer care how long it takes to cut so have been running it at it's slowest speed after cutting some steel. It isn't much slower and the motor doesn't heat up as much. It still cuts up parts far faster than I can run them on my Brother R650. Load up enough bars to fill a 5 gallon bucket, push the green button, come back when I know it is done, and repeat. There is a lot of room for improvement on this saw but it does work fine. I have no regrets buying this saw, I just wish Tormach would do a little more to make it a lot better.

What type of content?

@@cgpmachining I am very curious what is the workflow when setting up a new part on this machine from fusion360 to the first correct part, how is the navigation of the control, PC communication with the machine control. I am curious about your experience working with this machine from the very beginning, what progress you have made. If you can, of course, reveal what your plans are for the new tooling, etc. I think I found your posts on the Practical Machinist forum where you presented your version of the Uniforce clamp, I'd love to hear a little more information from you on this subject What accessories do you have on your model and what would you like to add? You can find a ton of content on Hass machines but not much on Brother CNC

Thanks, a lot of that I didn't think of but the Brother is a lot different than Fanuc/ Yasnac that I am used to. I will get to it but the next video will be of some production 2" and 3" vises I am making. I first wanted them close to 25 years ago and first prototyped them 7 years ago so they are a long time in the works. For me the most interesting ones are the 8 station "tombstones" for the 4th axis. They work great, are designed to be as cheap as possible, and I will only sell them on my website so no extra markups!!! @@piotrkarcz6853

This is years of experience, having my own shop so I can take the time to "do it right" even when is doesn't necessarily pencil out in an effort to learn, and many Kaizen events. Since this video was shot I learned how to speed this machine up even more by only using feed moves when in the cut, all others are rapid moves. The machines I have ran previously were faster using feeds for short moves but this one is a little different. Nothing like underbiding a job to drive you to go faster.

@@cgpmachining I may not know much about cnc work, at my age it would seem like a fun hobby more than a career But still would love to learn how to operate this kind of stuff, draw pictures and print

It really is something that takes a long time to get good at, and you never stop learning. I got into the trade because I wanted to make my own things for sailboarding. While doing production is what makes the money the fun is designing and making the tooling.@@toolwithintention

@@cgpmachining I do oil field corrosion work, much different than machining. However, making in house parts to play more with cars would be a dream. I couldn’t find much on schooling classes for cnc.

I learned on the job so never did any formal schooling on machining. I have met people who took clases at a trade school and based on that I would say the best way to learn is to get a machine and go at it. If you have a modern machine with a tool setter and especially a spindle probe it takes so much of the old school skills out of the equation it's silly. Now it is model it in CAD and post the toolpaths to the machine, probe the part, and go.@@toolwithintention

The job that enabled me to start a side business was to make a plastic injection mold. I did it with a manual mill and lathe. The only surface grinder work was to cut the ejector pins, which I did at work. All alumium with 2 slides and I made the base. When all done I figured I made under $5 an hour. At least I still have the same customer 30 years later so I have had time to make up some of it, and they are still using that mold. None the less it beats the hell out of being an employee.

I know I need some pecks for the second drill, it is .099" diameter going .45" deep with .12" pecks. I know 416 is free machining but it seems somewhat abrasive. I DO NOT want the drill to have problems as it would take out 3 tools and the saw arbor. I am seeing some wear on all of the drills so I don't think I can push them much harder. As I do more parts I will see what adjustments I can make. The biggest adjustment possible is I think I can drive the 3/8" corncob rougher a lot harder, which may save a lot of time. I am taking .13" radial cuts and the wear doesn't look too bad so far so I think I may be able to increase the speeds and feeds quite a bit.

They are something I have always wanted. About 6 years ago I made two 2" and two 3" versions but haven't had many parts to use them on. I have since made many little changes and have a bunch of stock cut up to make both single and quad versions of 2" and 3" vises. I keep making little changes and made the fixturing a few months ago, again, I just need a 10 day window to get them ready to Type III anodize before finishing them. The 2" vise I am using here is 1-3/8" thick and mounted off center so add 3 more sides to it by rotating the jaws around and that is what the quad version will look like. They are another product I wish to make so don't want to explain too many details until I have them ready to sell. Once I get the 2" and 3" versions in production then 4" will be next. With a pneumatic tailstock I can swap them with 20 seconds average spindle off time, but with the rotating table I no longer need do this. The single side versions will have a pneumatic clamping option to make life easier when swapping parts and are doweld so you can easily mount them to pallets.

Many things led to me underbidding this part so here goes. I don't cut much steel and have never cut 416SS. It's machinability rating is 120% of 1212 so I thought I could go faster. The stock is 3/4" sq x 2" and the part is 1/8" thick at the bottom, so there is a lot of material removed. The parts is pretty detailed with some tighter tolerances and must be cosmetically very nice. I will increase feeds as I see how the tools wear, especially the roughing end mill, but I will never get the part to 70 seconds which is what I quoted. I have already told my customer that I underbid the part and raising the price accordingly is fine. The design considerations of this part limit any changes so it is what it is, and the finished parts are really nice. Once it get's released then I will do another video of the faster program and include some shots of the part.

These are what I like the most and are what I am using in my videos www.aimco-global.com/subcat2?subcatky2=693553 but I get them used on Ebay. The only problems I have had are sometimes they don't have the standard springs in them. For this type of work go with 800-1100 rpm.

That's what it looks like. It takes quite a few turns to make a difference. I would think it is a standard accessory for air cylinders. Probably a needle valve for the incomming air would be fine, no need to control both directions independantly.

There is a "quick" nut that loosely fits the wildly undersized acme screw that you adjust to the length you want your parts to be. There is a scale on the side so you can see what the length will be. Pull the moving vise shuttle to the length you want, move the nut to the shuttle and pull the shuttle tight against the nut to confirm the length is correct. Make sure the shuttle is tight against the nut/stop before starting a cycle or else your first part is going to be short. This all works really well except that the nut will move. I bought another nut so I could tigthen them together so the nut stays put. The problem here is the cheap, garbage, junk Chinese acme screw. If this doesn't answer your question let me know.

​@@cgpmachining thanks that was a great explanation. I received mine today hopefully I start cutting parts tomorrow.

@@kainenoropeza8538 Keep in mind mine was loosely assembled and virtually nothing was properly aligned or adjusted. How the proximity switches and the air volume valves on the shuttle feed cylinder are adjusted will affect part length consistency.

It's the 200L, which was standard at the time I got it.

It would be a waste of time and effort.

I am sorry but I don't know what you mean by "front button view"? I think of this as the green button on the machine just outside of where I swap the parts.

What do you mean "working on Brother in time perspective"? It is currently set up with my first 4th axis job and I have 4 days of work left to do. It's just for stock, the order has been delivered, so I am taking some time off while the weather is good to get some projects done before winter. I will get some videos made before I finish and get them posted. I'm finally running the machine at 100% with the current part since it is the first one where I can swap parts faster than I can get the machine to run them. Some tools are running 500ipm so it will be a far better video to show how fast the machine is. Funny thing is I had one path running at 620ipm but the cycle time was longer than when run at 500, go figure. While I love the machine and am glad I got it, it has made me respect my Kitamura a lot more.

@@cgpmachining I apologize for the inaccuracies. I meant your thoughts on working with this machine on a daily basis, pros and cons, a little information on the configuration. So I look forward to your new videos. You mentioned pneumatic clamping, could you write something more about it? With what accuracy does the machine position pallets?

@@piotrkarcz6853 No reason to appologize, I just seemed like a translation issue. When I get a chance I will do a video showing all the hidden details of this machine and a bit of a review. It is a rather unique build and one I find quite interesting. The way the 3 axis assembly and rotating table assembly is mounted on the base to allow the chips to get flushed out. The pneumatic clamping will have to wait, better to show it in a video once I get it made. I REALLY want to convert driving screws in and out to pushing or pulling a plunger, it makes life sooo much easier when swapping parts. I haven't checked the table location accuracy yet but think it must be within .0001" based on the tooling work I have done so far. I have been told by others with this machine that they bored a hole, indicated it in, rotated the table around, and when indicating the hole the tenths indicator did not move.

@@cgpmachining If I understand correctly, pneumatic clamping will be your own design or will you use some zero point solution from the market? Like you, my work space is limited, I built it myself, and also own an older 3-axis machining center. I am slowly looking around for something compact and fast at the same time, Brother speedio or older versions of it might be a game changer for me. At some point, I found that for the moment I need to optimize machining times differently, so I decided on a zero point system from Schunk but lately I've had so much work that I couldn't install it and redo the vices. Do you have an Instagram account maybe?

@@cgpmachining I referred to change the entire fixture plate. Your comment I believe is about the clamps themselves. Which would be a very interesting solution. I have seen somewhere fixture a plates with hydralic release clamps.

They are my version of Uniforce clamps. I always wanted to make changes to them and I finally started making my own about 7 years ago. The Op1 shells are steel with teeth so they really hold the parts well. I only hold onto .03" of the part for Op1 and couldn't do it with standard Uniforce clamps. I later found out that Stan's patent on them had pseudo teeth in the artwork so he was thinking of it too.

Yeah, it is but I now make 2.5 times more parts a day than I did with my single table mill and pallets so that helps me feel better about it. Once I switch over to pneumatic clamping I will be able to run the machine at it's limits, I have it throttled back quite a bit since I can't swap parts any faster.

@@cgpmachining Great video. Thanks for sharing. What pneumatic clamping system are you looking at? I run pallets full of parts and need something more efficient like pneumatic clamping as well.

@@ad20an89 For these parts I am going to put a rectangular piston under them to pull the wedges down vs driving the screws. I did this back when I only machined the ends and face so 1 op and done. The cycle was so fast that pallets didn't pencil out. I torque these screws to 10 in-lbs and my shells are not hardened so the teeth are not very sharp. With hardened shells and sharp teeth I can drop the torque around 25% and the parts still don't move.

@@cgpmachining Where are you going to source the rectangular pistons/actuators? I've been doing a deep dive into this lol. thanks.

@@ad20an89 I make most of my fixtures and related parts from scratch so I can design them exactly how I want. Are you on Practical Machinist or machinistboard.com?

I generally run my vises around 40 psi for what I cut and haven't had anything move so far. To adjust the speed of the air cylinders turn the metal knob with the locknuts on the fittings that the hoses press into. Not too fast and not too slow, it has to be juuuust right. I haven't been using the fastest blade speed but the second fastest. It seems to cut better with the extra torque. The motor just doesn't have the power to really use the fastest setting.

I work from home in a shop I built in 2004. It is 14'x20' inside dimensions and I have my new R650, a 2001 Kitamura 1Xi which is also a 30 taper, computer workstation, and some conter space. Yes, space is limited. I have since built a 8'x12' building for more storage, the saw, and I put my lathe out there to make room for the Brother. The Kitamura is pretty fast but the Brother is definitly on another level and the rotating table takes it up one more level. I had about 800 spindle hours on the Kitamura in 2020 and I figured the rotating table alone would save me around 78 hours just in fixture swaps. Keep in mind it takes me 15-25 seconds of spindle off time to swap pallets in my Kitamura so it isn't slow. On top of this having my fixtures stay on the table allows me to use pneumatic clamping so I can just push or pull a button to activate the clamps, NO MORE SCREWS!!!!!!! So after I get new fixtures made I think I can save several times that 78 hours a year, on 800 hours of spindle time. The Brother is a great production machine, it is specifically made for production, but because of this it will have a lot of downsides for anything other than production. It certainly lacks the balls or guts of my Kitamura. I am desperatly trying to get my work switched over to the Brother right now but once I get caught up I am going to do an in depth review of the Brother. It is certainly a different machine than a C frame and has a lot of interesting features.

@@cgpmachining As I looked into the 650X2, I came to the same conclusion, that a dual table would be more of a hassle for testing tool paths, doing short runs, etc. So for now I'm thinking a Haas VF3SS might be good compromise between production throughput and easy access for prototyping. (Have you ever used a Haas? If so how does the Brother controller compare?) Looks like you ship a lot of product. Are you selling your own end-product or are you manufacturing components for someone else? I manufacture and sell a handgun accessory I patented.

@@grappler185 I have never used a Haas and am sure the Brother control isn't as user friendly. I personally like my Yasnac J300 better than the Brother control. It is much more to the point than the Brother but doesn't have nearly as much capability. As far as a bigger Haas vs an R650, in my opinion it would be an R650 all the way. It would make 3-5 times as many parts at the end of the day if the Haas doesn't have an auto pallet changer, and not much difference if it does. It would also use less shop space, air, and much less electricity. The R650 uses 2 amps doing it's warmup program and not much more when making parts, my phase converter has an amp meter. Yeah, I am making some assumptions on your parts but I doubt I am very far off. I have my Kitamura for any short runs or tooling jobs, and you have your VF1. When running your Haas think about the spindle starting to cut metal on the next op 4 seconds after it stops, while you are opening the door to start swapping parts or fixtures. The R650 has about a 4 second chip to chip table swap, and you don't have to be at the machine when it stops to get it running on the next op. You just need to get the parts swapped for the next op before the machine is done makeing the current ops parts. This makes a huge difference in the number of parts you make at the end of the day. Right now pretty much what I make are all my own designs which I sell to one customer who then markets and sells them. Now that I have the Brother I will have time to get some of the workholding items I have developed for my own needs into production to try and diversify. Things like wedge clamps, as seen in the video, double acting vises including 4 sided to be used on the 4ths, vaccum systems, etc. All low cost by design and probably only sold direct through my website so no markups.

@@cgpmachining I own both Brother R650xd1 as well as a bunch of Haas machines. I wouldn't recommend a new Haas as they have so many issues with lubrication. Ask any of us that own them and had to do conversion kits that cost a bunch of money and down time as well as countless lubrication system empty errors that seem to be never ending. All that a side if Haas ever figures it out the machines are still stupid slow in comparison.

Yeah, what I got was not a surprise but it is the right size for what I need, anything bigger wouldn't fit. Your description of a pre-assembled kit that needs to be fully inspected and adjusted is dead on. I had been designing a smaller version of this saw in my head for several years before it came out so I was expecting to modify it anyway. All in all I am quite happy with what I got for the price paid, but if they would just do a little better job in a few spots it would make it a far better saw. I can't imagine having one of their mills. For the same price you can get an older high quality used VMC that's still in great shape. Do call the MTB up to find out how much support they will offer and how much it will cost. With Enshu it is $750 and excellent support. With Kitamura it is free and excellent. This isn't the case with everyone.

I would say over half of my parts are +/-.003" when set up well. It is sensitive to shuttle speed, not too slow or fast. I am sure it can do better but I still need to check the vises and do a bit of work to the fixed one to solve some issues with it.

I have it set to run 80-150 to reduce cycling when running my Kitamura. It uses a LOT of air so typically my compressor runs for 4 minutes and is off for 7. Both of my mills are Japanese so they want 60psi air. This is the only thing in my shop that wants higher air pressure.

That is what I was thinking but I would put it right above the rear roller, with a cantilevered weight to hold it down. There are nice mounting locations and holes right in front of that roller on both sides. But, after the last run of stock I am thinking that the vises are much of the problem and I should try to fix them first to see how much that helps. 1) The moving vise jaw on the saw lifts a lot, .075", so I am going to add a lock on it's stop so I can clamp it tight to the bed vs just using the lead screw to hold it in place. Similar to the lock on the shuttle vise. There are a few "issues" with the lead screw and crank wheel assembly so it should not be used to hold the jaw stop in place. Watching the jaw clamp the stock with the slop I can see the jaw lift quite a lot, lifting the stock in the process. 2) The flat head screws that hold the moving jaw to the air cylinder body on the shuttle are proud about .02" so I need to fix that and check all jaws to be sure they are perpendicular to the shuttle and saw beds, or tilted a tad to help push the stock down. While I like the saw there are a few of those cheap Chinese sloppy hacks that need fixing.