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To put it simply, I don’t care. Like you said, God is the judge. My point with this video is to show why this is a concern to me. If they don’t think Christian’s exist outside of their church then that’s a crazy error to me. There are just endless examples of heroic Christian’s throughout time that were not orthodox and to say none of them were truly Christian is wild. That’s why this is my biggest concern with orthodoxy and why I’m seeking clarification on the topic.

@ not a believable response when you recorded, edited, uploaded, made a thumbnail and everything else that goes into creating this video to whine about “oh the Orthodox might not think I’m saved” all that effort is not a non chalant I don’t care what they say.

Never heard of him.

@ really, he is the number one eastern orthodox apologist online check him out

Whether there’s two groups of Christian’s as was after the great schism or 30,000 (an exaggerated number), the question remains the same. Do those outside the Orthodox Church who hold to what the Bible says and follow Christ with all their heart and affirm fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, go to heaven? It’s not a question of who has every doctrine correct. Honestly probably no one does. It’s a question of, is faith in Christ enough along side works that follow in keeping with that faith?

@ no human being can answer that question and you know it. It’s a fallacious notion to even ask. The Church saves souls. Everyone will stand in judgment before God.

That’s where we disagree. The Bible states very clearly what saves a man from his sin. It also says we can have assurance in the man Jesus Christ. It’s not a fallacious question to ask in any way. Either the Orthodox Church can acknowledge that saving faith can exist outside its walls or it can’t.

@ Christ saves and the Holy Spirit is sovereign blowing where He will. But nonchurch is nonchurch. It was not ordained by Christ as the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church was.

Even now in the comments here it doesn’t feel consistent.

​@freeindeed08 i think that, especially when it comes to online sources, this is an easy thing to do, that is, to say that there is no consistency in x position, because dissenting opinions exist and aren't policed online For example, if I am to make a video that says "What do protestants/catholics think of x", then i will get many answers, as you might have here in asking things about the Orthodox We do have to consider that just because many different answers are given by people, that doesn't mean they all are equally in tune with what that group actually subscribes to I would say, as far as Apostolic Churches go (Catholics/Copts/Orthodox) the best witness to their doctrines or opinions is the *overwhelming witness* (note that this is different from taking one Saint and assuming that it represents the entirety of that Church, but rather taking from what in Greek is refered to as the Phronema, or the collective "mind" of the Church expressed in the Saints) their Saints and any particularly defined doctrine in a Church Council or in the cass of Catholics a Papal Enciclical Laity tend to have views influenced by their relative freedoms to the clergy, the clergy have this heavy weight of representing the Faith as teachers, so the things they say are careful, whereas the laity can speak in a more laid-back manner, as they don't have the teaching authority of a Bishop, or the pressure of representing that authority in the case of a priest or deacon Be mindful of these things when talking to any Apostolic group, I think this is an issue protestants have because there is a real difference in how we view the levels of authority in the Church, and so this confusion happens of protestants (and protestant converts to Orthodoxy, as I fell into this a bit) thinking individuals in the laity in the online sphere can properly represent Orthodoxy, instead of looking to those that hold the teaching office (these are the bishops, who are represented by the priests, and the priests by the deacons) in cooperation with those that have been verifiably (in the Church’s opinion) transformed by God to have wisdom beyond our understanding (these are the Saints) I hope this helps, Orthodoxy is complicated, but that does not mean it isn't sound, or inconsistent, people are inconsistent, but God is not

@@randomguy1453 that's an understandable situation between laity and ministers. The Ecclesial Churches (True Church) tend to deem anathema and damnation for holding hedrodox ideas, Filioque differences as the main example. I've looked into it a little and it seems like even the clergy have different answers depending on if they're rigorousts or not in terms of salvation outside the visible Church.

@@MobBossPenguin As for anathemas, there's a difficulty here that causes confusion, anathemas, in the Orthodox Church at least, have primarily been applied to those who have left the visible Church in order to call them and their followers to rescind their heresy, how this applies to protestants is a very sticky question, as they arent part of the visible Church whatsoever, and im not going to pretend to be an expert or authority on the subject of how that works exactly, it's an issue which, to my knowledge, hasn't been formally discussed, and so it is granted that there may be a difference of opinion on this until that occurs, which frankly seems to be growing ever more pertinent as more protestants find themselves converting and having these questions being asked As for the issue of salvation outside the Church, and remember I'm a layperson so take what I say with a grain of salt, but from what I've seen of the lives of the Saints (particularly those stories we hold of those who died outside the Church being miraculously united to the Church through the prayers of Saints), there is a sense in which we can harmonize the seemingly discordant opinions To those who say "there is no salvation outside the Church" this is correct, as without being a member of the Body of Christ, one cannot be saved. To those who say "One may be saved despite passing on without having been united to the Church in life", this is correct, but not because they arent united to the Church, but rather that they are united posthumously by miraculous means, as God saves whom He wills and may unite a man to the Church outside the normal means Thus both views can be held in harmony, this is what I've found in my own discussions with clergy and study of the lives of the Saints, for whatever that is worth. We also must consider that the concept of an invisible and visible Church is treated somewhat differently in Orthodoxy than in protestantism, as in protestantism there is a clear divide in the two ideas, but in Orthodoxy there's a sort of harmony to them, with the spiritual Church "informing" the visible institution of the Church or acting through it, and there is yet another overlap between the spiritual Church and the Church triumphant (that is, the Church in heaven), that the Church triumphant seems to be a key actor in linking the visible Church together in cooperation with the more conceptual idea of a spiritual Church Again, this is a very complicated subject, as Orthodoxy does not have as many sharp divides and either/or situations as protestants or even catholics, one can pin this lack of strict definition to the lack of extreme theological innovation in the Orthodox Church, as there has been relative peace on the theological front for millenia now, with exception to the odd blip of an old heresy resurfacing or some other event. If there is one thing ive learned in my time as an Orthodox Christian, Orthodoxy requires a much different type of thinking than the sharpened western expressions of christianity, and prefers a more nuanced view of theology, and cautions highly against sharp and strict borders on certain things, allowing the Church to come to a united front over time, or through crisis, as has happened many times before, rather than only extensive debate between men resulting in many complicated and strict terms for single ideas. I would ask you to try to view Orthodoxy through this lens, it is not an easy lens to get used to, but I think it will assist your dialog with us greatly, and may God forgive me if ive said anything wrong here, as again, I'm not in a position to be a right representative, there's no way for you to verify if I am in fact Orthodox for 100% certainty, keep this in mind as well when listening to others, as always, the best ways to find out about a Church is to "come and see", and you will "know them by their fruits", which in Orthodoxy's case, are exemplified in our holy Saints, who lived great Christian lives.

@@randomguy1453 we certainly are in agreement, we shall know them by their fruit. It's fascinating from a Protestant perspective as the concept of the Church of God bound into one single visible institution alone is a foreign concept. Protestants focus is on the unsaved, I don't see any big motivation to convert my Orthodox or Catholic brothers to my tradition as Protestants view them as true Churches. It's good to have these theological discussions but I feel the Protestants view point leans us to focus on those who don't know God and Jesus as so much of the world still doesn't know. I'm open to the truth and where the Holy Spirit guides me as God's wisdom is greater than mine. What is the most convincing aspect about Eastern Orthodoxy that makes you believe it's the True Church?

Planning on it soon. I have a small Orthodox Church in my area.

That’s pretty much my point in asking this question. It seems to me that faith is the saving ingredient and not being part of a specific church. Faith grows through experiencing God (see my Kierkegaard videos).

@freeindeed08 Unfortunately, faith, church, believer, etc, are a moving target for most Protestants. Sometimes, church can be physical, but more times than not, it is invisible that the building is irrelevant. Regarding faith outlined in the New Testament, is defined according to the orthodox perspective. As you know, the epistles were written to orthodox churches, i.e., ephesians, galatians, and so on. Faith was never I make a prayer repentance and I am good now. A believer in the context of the New Testament is also from an Orthodox viewpoint. Ultimately, it was the orthodox church who received the authority on Pentecost through the Holy Spirit/apostles for the faith. The holy Spirit was not waiting for Luther or Calvin for doctrinal innovation. I love my protestant brethren as I, too, was once in your camp. Humbly, I accepted the wholeness of the truth once it was revealed to me. Many can keep arguing and knit picking on Holy Orthodoxy instead of praying for unity of the faith. This means one Christian faith, one church, and one tribune. God, this clearly can not be protestantism.

I feel like the obvious answer is Nicene Christianity. If someone could affirm that and they’ve placed their faith in Christ, they’re a Christian. Obviously all those groups would not be considered Christian because they contradict core Christianity. Like I said in a few other comments, this matters because if an orthodox Christian is going to say “all outside of the Orthodox Church are not true Christians” then that means that every Christian that’s died for their faith in China is in hell. Great Christian thinkers throughout time are in hell. That’s an absurd position to hold and from what I’m hearing in the comments from orthodox Christian’s is that they don’t believe that. So that’s why this is so important. I’m not saying they need to open their communion to Protestants. I am saying it’s important for them to affirm that Christians can exist outside their church even if they think they’re lacking some part of true faith and doctrine.

@freeindeed08 the parallel of the first part of what you said and the last part gets to my point about the troublesome looseness of the labels we use. You must draw a line somewhere, and the Orthodox have a clear distinction for who is and is not in the Church that is simply different than yours. The Church is the normative means of salvation, but that does not mean no one outside of her boundaries may be saved. Certainly Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not in their day but the Church recognizes their sainthood.

I just believe very strongly that there is a difference between denying the trinity or even Christ Himself with some of those examples and someone who affirms every core doctrine of the faith while missing out on some orthodox theology.

The obvious answer is the object of their worship. The reason Mormons are not Christians is because the object of their worship is a material finite being and another separate material finite being that was once a regular human being named Jesus. JWs are not Christians because similar to Mormons, they are polytheists and worship a separate finite being called christ. Protestants, Catholics, and the Orthodox have the same object of worship. The disagreements are primarily soteriology and ecclesiology.

@@freeindeed08 That might be the obvious answer to you, but that's just your subjective opinion. The obvious answer to me is Orthodox Christianity.

My knowledge of orthodoxy is very limited. I know a few doctrines but I’ve never met an orthodox priest or anyone who actually knows much. I do know of one church near by I plan on visiting tho. I understand the not folding on core doctrines for the sake of being ecumenical (as I said in the video) but the acknowledgment that people can be faithful followers of Christ (even if it’s not up to the full standard of the Orthodox Church) is an important point to me personally as I find many faithful Christian’s outside the Orthodox Church.

@ yes, my point exactly. Being ignorant doesn’t mean you are not saved, even people who weren’t Christian who didn’t know about it (like native Americans before 1492) have a chance of being saved. However, choosing to reject orthodoxy willfully is when we believe you can not be saved. But also, we are all under one judge. Only God can judgs

I actually don’t think Protestants are on the same level as orthodox. I have many criticisms of Protestants as that is a very wide umbrella term that include groups I disagree strongly with. I have more respect for the orthodox than I do for many Protestant denominations. With that said, my concern is primarily with the acknowledgment that those outside of the Orthodox Church can be Christian. I don’t want the orthodox to change any of their long held beliefs but like I said in the video, from the sources I see, it seems like Catholics and orthodox like throwing anathemas around and saying all outside are not true Christian’s. This idea is not coherent to me when I look around the world and see genuine believers in Christ who are outside the Orthodox Church dying for their faith everyday.

@@freeindeed08 "my concern is primarily with the acknowledgment that those outside of the Orthodox Church can be Christian." Again, this is asking for an equivalency that simply cannot be without compromising the long held beliefs you so highly respect.

This is helpful for forming a perspective on this. I am hoping to speak to an orthodox priest in the near future to hear some perspective on it. I definitely understand not wanting to say things that can be taken out of context.

I should have phrased things a little differently. I do think it’s important to ask this question of whether orthodox consider other denominations as Christian because if they don’t then I would think they’re horribly mistaken. For example, if the orthodox would say guys like C.S. Lewis or Tolkien aren’t true Christian’s and they aren’t going to heaven then I don’t know who would go to heaven. The shear amount of Christian’s all over the world that have never interacted with orthodoxy would all be damned to hell even though they’ve died for their faith in Christ. That’s the absurdity to me. If salvation is found in anything other than faith in the living God then that’s an incorrect view. If I have the go to an Orthodox Church to be saved that’s the absurdity. God bless you as well. I hope this clarifies my concern.

My primary concern is not that they decide if I’m going or not. I did not articulate why I want them to think I’m a Christian well enough. It’s primarily because I want unity in the body as much as possible. If I am in dwelt by the Holy Spirit and they are as well then I want to love them because God is in them. This should work both ways. Protestants have historically been ready to say other groups of Christian’s are saved just as well as they are but orthodox and Catholics have not. This leads to the inability for the two groups to work together with one common goal of spreading God’s kingdom on earth despite theological differences.

I actually don’t remember it’s been so long. I read this version somewhere online. Then I put shaded the penguin version to have a physical copy. If you search the comments on this video I may have already given the answer.

Thanks for the response. No shade taken. I by no means think that I have every doctrine figured out 100%. I definitely differ from many Protestants on many of my views and I find it difficult to place myself in any given denomination. I respect all who profess faith in Christ, live the way He lived, and profess the core of Christianity (Nicene creed). I may not have the fullness of truth but I am seeking it.

@@freeindeed08 The main problem is that even in the essentials any other "denomination" differ from Holy Orthodoxy. I suggest you to read the history on the Filioque heresy, and the criterion on valid baptism in the early church (How the heretics and the lapsi were accepted back into the Holy Catholic (Orthodox) Church and when baptism was necessary or accepted by chrismation only). Even though the liturgical and sacramental aspect is fundamentally important, the goal is to understand what the early church thought about how one is truly Christian. If you understand the early church (from 33 AD to 400 AD circa) you will know without any doubts which path to walk and the salvific spiritual weapons you could harness in it.

Does it really give you 100% assurance though? Many of the doctrines that are essential to “the fullness of faith” in orthodoxy cannot be found in the Bible! Take the office of bishop and priest, the practice of praying to saints, or the divine liturgy being essential, just to name a few. You really can’t be 100% sure about anything. We as Christians/ Protestants are simply saying our faith and practice is the closest to the apostles as far as it can be observed in the scriptures. We are very wary about having additional practices that cannot be show to be originated from the scriptures. Leading us to reject anything of that sort as an accretion and unnecessary as best, or at worst a straying from the original faith of the apostles leading to vain worship. This is why we are always seeking to reform the church and its practices, to uphold the original practices and intentions of the Christian faith!

@@nickhanley5407 Nothing about the Bible itself can be found in the Bible, so your argument refutes itself. If the Bible itself is the only standard, then I can't trust the Bible, because the Bible did not give us permission to assemble a book called the Bible, nor did it tell us which books should be included in the Bible. No, we do not have "Assurance of salvation" in Orthodoxy. Neither do you. You might think you do, but the fact is that your beliefs do not offer assurance, you just haven't examined them closely enough to realize it.

Arianism has 200% then ;)

In the description. All Muslim sources.

Thanks for the response. It does clarify some things. This is essentially what I hear from the Orthodox right now. That it is possible for those outside to be saved but since there is no assurance of salvation in Orthodoxy there’s no real way to know.

@@freeindeed08Well, I wouldn’t say no assurance. Here’s an analogy I got from a Catholic friend. Imagine you have a ticket for a movie, you make sure you keep that in a safe spot, and that you don’t lose it. We may not have 100% assurance we’ll watch the movie beforehand (perhaps we forget the ticket) but as long as we keep the ticket safe, we’ll be just fine. In the same way, we may not have 100% assurance we’ll be saved currently, but as long as we do the sacraments and keep the faith, when we finally die we will be saved.

That’s why I said I don’t want them to change any of their doctrines. I’m not asking them to conform to my beliefs. What I am asking is if they would even consider outsiders Christian or not.

@@freeindeed08 What I have heard is that outsiders are Christian *to the extent that* they are Orthodox.

@@freeindeed08 It would be better if they did of course. But doctrine is identity. And identity is often built in opposition to something else - as monotheism being opposition to previously general polytheism or rather polytheism in tribes being a sum of clan's patriarch ancestor god cults clan monotheism. Imagine it being about nationalism not religious affiliation. Many religions are fueled exactly by doctrinal differences. And so often it can go only as far as a respect towards a strong, firm enemy. Maybe it could work like the Greek city states with their supracultural unity. But it still was based on their uniqueness and acknowledging commonly that all other folks around as barbarians... Some things simply cant be generalized as generalization becomes their antithesis. Only working to a degree. The worst for them is keeping a dead doctrine. Because if it dies on lower level in favor of uniting as a bigger group, it automatically makes the higher level dead as well.

That’s true. I’ll check out the video later. Catholicism seems to have changed its mind on this topic overtime. That’s the difficulty for me on this whole subject. If in the past there was a near unanimous view and then it changes, doesn’t that indicate a small fracture with the “one true church” claim?

@@freeindeed08 Yh I felt the same way too about this but Trent Horn does a really good job nuancing this on his interview on PWA. ruclips.net/video/JBXq4yTL6zc/видео.html&t (47 minute mark).

I am happy to see the rise of orthodoxy because it is in the right direction. I respect and love my orthodox brothers in Christ. I hope they see me as a brother as well. I agree that media is largely used by Satan in his schemes and we definitely need to push hard against it in anyway we can. I find it difficult to consume any show or movie that gets produced these days.

@@freeindeed08 Christians of all denominations should definitely try to work together to combat this force. Now, this doesn't mean being an ecumenist and saying all paths are as correct as each other, for there can only be one objectively true path, but it would do a lot of good. Side note: if you ever want to read a good critique of the mindset of the modern world, I highly suggest "Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age" by Father Seraphim Rose. It'd be pretty nice if you made a video on it, haha.

@@freeindeed08 Also, just to let you know. I lean towards Oriental Orthodox. If you ever want to learn about that sect, or the cultures of the people in that sect, I suggest The Lions Den with Daniel Kakish on RUclips.

Id be interested to check out the book. I have a cursory knowledge of seraphim rose and his life. He was a very interesting guy.

@@freeindeed08Yeah, him spending his college years studying Nietzsche, as well as learning different languages and being around teachers like Alan Watts to study Eastern Religions, eventually helped him to become one of the best critics of both things when he eventually found Christ.

God bless brother. I agree with you completely. The salvation of a soul is always a miracle to me. I hope Christian’s everywhere start speaking up and making a difference around them. I was cowardly for too long.

Agreed. I love a good conspiracy theory but ultimately they result in giving too much power and credit to Satan and 0 glory to God.

Haha I’m not saying don’t vote, but I am saying politicians definitely won’t fix any of the true problems.

Calling it a sin may have been too much of a loaded term. I meant sin in the sense that it misses the mark of what we should strive for not in the sense of "murder is a sin."

I have not heard about this. My conclusions are primarily based on the outcome tech has had on us.

@@freeindeed08 your judgement based on what fruit it brings is correct but there is also a deeper cause. It seems that electric circuits of some boards are deliberatly shaped as demon sigils to use as idols and put into electronic devices

What does this comment mean lol. Does he owe young men money for having given advice?

@i_am_kofit I’m confused as well

@@freeindeed08 You are happy to tell young men what to do, but you will not support them in doing it. You just lecture and tell them to take responsibility for things that they don't own and should NEVER shoulder the burden for. You want work done then pay for it, or shut up. See Luke 10 if you still do not understand. And to clear any confusion, I am not speaking about money, although that is part of it. There is not just compensation currently for men being men, so it is right and good that young men choose not to be what society demands of them. Give them the things that are rightly belonging to men, and they will do it of their own will. Right now all you offer is a miser's salary. Stop that.

@thealkymyst I’m still not following. The whole point I’m trying to make is that no one is going to fix this world other than men. If you want to actually see any difference in the world it’s going to take a lot of work by a lot of men. If no men do anything then it’ll continue to be terrible.

@@freeindeed08 Absolutely agree. So, how much are you gonna pay us to fix things?

The "modern hobbies" I criticized, watching porn and playing too many video games.

Unfortunately

That is definitely true in some parts of this country.

Hell can't be made attractive, so the devil makes attractive the road that leads there. - St. Basil the Great

This is part one that describes the problem. Future videos have actionable steps. I’m not claiming to be an alpha male or even that you should want to be one. This is how to become a man in a world that doesn’t want you to become one.

@@freeindeed08 everyone's heard it all before. Congratulations on adding more bla bla to the problem.

I’m glad you’ve heard it all before but what are you doing with what you’ve heard. You sound more like a scoffer from the book of proverbs than a man. What did you actually disagree with? Or did you just come here to scoff? If you thought I was promoting some kind of alpha male then you didn’t listen very well.

@@freeindeed08 lol of course you gotta talk to me about being muh man, as if you know. I bet you offer "life coaching" as well. Keep talking and keep making silly videos. I know you think your projects contribute something unique, but you all sound exactly the same.

Next video should be ready within the week

Will be praying for you for sure. I lived in Mindanao in the Philippines as a missionary for about a year and it was life changing for me.