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Software Engineering is never an art. It is what it always was, is and will be - ENGINEERING

Didn’t use VS/Windows for 7 years. Rider, Mac, Linux

"yeah ! programming is awesome ; just it sucks when you do it for a living" So true !

Software is not a art, its software. Yes, it can be like a art, but it was meant to run computers, not make you feel like the next Michelangelo.

not buying for a second that a guitar player could learn accordion faster than a master accordion could learn all those songs...

You should see some of the massive, profit generating, and quite scalable systems I have written using... BASH. No, it's not the only language I know by a long shot, but depending on the domain of the problem, it can be all the tool you need, when used properly. Tools are just that. Sometimes good old tie wire is better than a custom fabricated bracket or zip ties, also.

I keep agreeing! I often get asked for C++ projects as freelancers. And my first question always is: “what is it that they are developing?” Because my background is in medical, graphical and low-level systems/embedded. I don’t know about simulation of traffic and tunnel emergency systems. That was the last requests, and the head hunter (they should not exist absolutely useless middle man)) was like but C++ is C++… And I couldn’t make him see that C++ was just a tool. I can have a screw driver and be a luthier that doesn’t mean I know how to build for example houses. We are technically both carpenters and some knowledge translates but they are two very different domains of carpentry. We both use viles, saws and routers but we use them so differently.

Oh man web dev in 1995, that was when I started to hate the web. Perl cgi-bin, mSQL. Capturing the HTTP request to get the tokenized arguments ugghhh…. And using tcpdump to see what dynamic sql was generated and what web requests came in and out. React and C# Blazer improved it but it’s still not as flexible and robust as just desktop software. I still hope WASM will take off, where we can just developed desktop applications (that are blazingly fast) with whatever library and it would be smart enough to abstract that into wasm. But…. The problem is the fact that each OS has a different way of professing graphics and to cross compile say Qt (I love it) to then have some web graphic abstraction is really hard. We should have a unified Graphics api that works on everything and is really simple like we used in DOS, just a memory block you write your data into per pixel. Your graphics/ui libraries can actually compile to render that and wasm can then easily use that. We went too far with idiotic abstractions. Why is it so incredibly hard to just render a single pixel through hardware these days?! All the proprietary GPUs uggghh

I agree that there’s too many different technologies in IT and all of them are crap! I find myself reaching back to C (or Zig) and procedural development. Because the best software I wrote was raw C and assembly and they are still running in certain places (after almost 30 years). Web crap doesn’t even live for 5 years because they’ll rewrite in the “next best thing”. I hate Web development, it’s a disease! Just like browsers are terrible things for high performance software.

title: software is not art anymore me: I never thought it was art. I thought it just a engineering stuff

@13:50 words to live by

YOU GIVE REST A BAD NAME

Subbed , fun talk

SE is an art just like cooking. It just that some are chefs in their own restaurant and others work in mcdonalds.

Don’t agree with the analogy. Learning an instrument and then applying to different problems is far easier than the other way around. Becoming an expert musician/practitioner takes practice and time. My experience tells me that learning domains/knowledge is far easier than the other way around.

King Crimson - quality cultural technology!

appreciate the King Crimson reference

Turn the f'ing music off!

Software engineering was never, is never and will never be art. Stop diluting yourself into thinking this. Its just a means to someones endgame and yours if you want to eat, nothing more.

are react web devs the abstract artists that throw paint on a wall?

I used to think this untill i tried nextjs. Shit was stupid simple. It was like coding in roblox. It just got it done and I didn't really complain about it. Didnt even realize I was using it half the time.

I can so relate, every job always fix problems by adding more code, hire more people. Money rules 😊

Software is not art.

Software never was 'art'. It has always been an 'engineering' profession. It is only in recent years when UI 'artists' have been given permission and tools (React/Javascript/Node) that has enabled them to come down the entire tech stack and convert everything into 'art'. Of course, big business likes this because it is cheaper to use UX designers to build systems than it is to use properly qualified software engineers, but apparently, short-term cost savings are more important than quality and long term management/maintainability. The reason why we have so many poorly built back-end systems these days is because UI 'artists' have been allowed to cross into 'engineering' domains that they don't have experience of.

I've been using c++ for 30 years, so I have a C++ background. I use commercial software and none is microsoft based. And I do php

After a while i get into, "get it done and go home"

Great observations gents. You nail all of the issues I have with the industry.

Are you a dotnet dev or are you a C# dev? Nobody is a dotnet dev until the use dotnet in any other language other than VB and C#.

It's true that the learning curve gets kind of old after about a decade. I began doing less web software development and more embedded systems where I try to squeeze as many features as possible into a single 8-bit or 16-bit chip. IoT is becoming more of a thing anyway, and it's could be useful for automation on my homestead.

Listening Dylan is always fun and learning.

12:50 is a very good topic, I find myself leaning towards developing an expertise on specific domain in a particular industry rather than immediately adapting to latest fancy tooling, framework and languages. Nowadays more and more people can create or develop web or mobile app, we need to take another step of specialization, something that is more specific than being just a mobile or web dev which will make us more important in team and company.

Dylan has great talks, but this is just a rant, totally unrelated to the question.

Frontend became a joke. With all abstraction and meta frameworks, reminding me of PHP 5.6

beautifully put: "Flexibility that you are not using is a cost you have to service every day that you work on that code base"

Make Software Art Again

This is true with me. It takes me less time solving a problem from scratch instead of wating hours searching for a solution online.

Ruby isn't meant for what you described.

Nothing is art anymore.

Dotnet rules😂

I'm sure that Carpenters who used to handcrafted Furniture felt the same way about industrial processes to produce chairs

@dylanbeattie have some King Crimson on the accordion, just for mentioning it ruclips.net/p/PLCVtF5AwyLDd-gO297mC2cgTTykuQoH73

this was dope! dylan is cool

If you ask why we need frameworks. Think about a company that makes toys. Company doesn't give a shit how you do it but you need to make 100 a day, because all the other competitors produce them at that rate. The catch is you don't have an assembly line, and the other companies do. Good luck.

These reeks of "boomer yells at kids"

Co-Fucking-Rect. "Safety" is always the excuse, and people spend their time on the dumbest things. I already stopped honesty, the whole world around it is just filled with arbitrary and annoying stuff.

05:09 Hey, I built my own encryption system! The existing ones all have backdoors. I implemented ChaCha20 from RFC references and ECDH with M-511 from research papers.

In recent years i've come across a lot of abstractions over abstractions for the sake of abstractions, too many in fact. Its not even funny how laughably overcomplicated designs became to "make things easier", when in fact actually managing it, or simply fully grasping "it" became abysmally hard(not because the concepts are hard, but due to the sheer volume of abstractions and pulled codebase)

Interviewer was excellent. He turned Dylan loose and didn't get in the way. Subbed. Looking forward to more of this.

somewhat refreshing to hear .NET, fells like everywhere outside "The Bubble" people are crazy for Java or a flavor of javascript.

If software engineering was art, why would so many software engineers be rich!