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A 400 GPD membrane will remove about 4 gallons of permeate per hour at ~40F and 100psi. The Coronwater TYP-8900 pump operates at about 40 gph at 100 psi. So it will be removing 10% of the water. This is recovery rate (permeate out / flow in) ==> 4 /40 = 10%. You want to keep recovery rate for each membrane LOW to reduce fouling. So, 5 in series will give you a SYSTEM recovery rate of 50%, but the last membrane will have the highest individual recovery rate (4/(40-4*4)=16.7%) which is still very low. Bottom line, pump performance (flowrate at operating pressure), and membrane characteristics (size, rating, operating pressure, sap temp, optimum recovery rate range) all need to be accounted for when designing an RO. Lots more detail in my other RO videos and blog: ruclips.net/p/PL6CwcmcTEWYxhYPQCMAWETg9gHWL7_RXw&si=abrLev2d8syh2UYd www.roseummaple.com/2020/01/diy-2-stage-portable-hobby-ro.html

About 15 gph

@@RoseumMapleSyrup That’s impressive. I am thinking of getting one.

Amazon a.co/d/g7grdG9

I have never had a problem. Used this pump for 3 years in an RO and then repurposed it for a tubing vacuum system for the next 4. Make sure you are buying a larger wattage transformer that can handle the peak amperage of the pump.

It's probably due for a soap wash (NaOH).

@@RoseumMapleSyrup Great call thank you didn’t think of that. I’m new to the RO thing. I’ll try that tomorrow. The sap should be OK to boil into syrup? Thanks

I have one line that is over 1200 feet long and has 28 taps on it. Plenty of space to probably double the length. Exceeding that length is probably not ideal for reasons other than the spool.

I clean my tubing and take it down each year. Each line is numbered and gets wound up on its own spool. It gets reinstalled on the exact same trees each year. I marked each tree it goes around (maple and non-maple) with a small line of green spray paint at the height where the tubing has appropriate pitch/fall. I have videos on (1) cleaning: ruclips.net/video/FUrzZQOcyb4/видео.htmlsi=fiMZrwHQuWADTIIc (2) spooling up tubing: ruclips.net/video/I9ZoGFDqLqE/видео.htmlsi=MSvVEHY0CSu6Vung ruclips.net/video/bmco0vR-Cck/видео.htmlsi=EYMTsPl8dFbfpBW9 (3) reinstalling ruclips.net/video/jYkZl7bb8jY/видео.htmlsi=l0drNbWd9QC7zCpf

@@RoseumMapleSyrup Thank you for those links! I can see I have my work cut out for me. 😃

@@StrangerInAStrange no problem! It's not bad - the spool and carrying yoke make it VERY easy to take down and put up. I can do 8 lines, 112 taps, over 5000 feet of tubing in a single day.

Pressure is more important and you also don't want to drive your recovery rate too high (increases membrane fouling). Recovery rate at each membrane is permeate outflow / inlet flow. Also remember the pump flow rate drops significantly as pressure builds over 100-110 psi. Thatcwill increase recovery rate too (not good). I have another video that gets into details of this: ruclips.net/video/gd6cJ3QdiKk/видео.htmlsi=QlsrQK8aoSDp1-Bd

It has been years since I built that unit, and I tore it apart and rebuilt it with more membranes and a different pump and removed that pressure switch. It had a small Allen key screw in it that let you adjust shut off pressure to a higher level pressure. In the end, I do not think this is a necessary part. ruclips.net/video/JIbeiX3a16I/видео.htmlsi=jWTdxgqrA6vNM9fx ruclips.net/video/9_Eq_sq6Tp0/видео.htmlsi=8ETG40me5Qfwezlz

@@RoseumMapleSyrupThanks for the reply! I've actually watched most of your videos, I chose to make that one as it is the most cost effective version I've found. I'll just eliminate the pressure switch and keep an eye on the system when running. Thank you for the informative videos and for replying to every comment, that's super rare!

@@johnods1 You are very welcome. Best wishes on your build!

Generally, this depends on how well you have cared for them. If you keep recovery rate low, flush well, wash appropriately, store them well, and never let them freeze or expose them to chlorinated water, they should last a very long time. Things to look for are slime/fermentation of sap on top of membranes, sugar in your permeate, TDS levels getting higher in permeate (should be in single digits), and o-ring degradation on the bottom stem of the membrane.

@@RoseumMapleSyrup thank you! Very helpful information!

@@Hydrometer66.9 you are very welcome!

After wash and flush, I took out the membranes and though not feeling slimy on top, they have a yellow color to them. Replace?

​@mariloudailey5982 hard to say, perhaps do another wash/flush. Slight discoloration is probably fine .

Not sure - have had great luck with the aquatec 8852 on my original build and the coronwater TYP-8900K on subsequent builds.

Anytime, best of luck!

That sounds like you have a vacuum leak at (or just above) the 2nd tree. Anytime you see sap flow in a lower part of the line, and not the upper part, it's a sign of a vacuum leak. Check carefully to see if you can see where air is being pulled in. Could be at the tap, the tee or somewhere along the line (small cut/gash in line).

So I probably wasn’t very clear on that. The two first two trees are going into the mainline anything from those trees all the way to my pump. The tap lines are full, but are not going into the main line. The main line is 3/16 the tap lines are 5/16. Sorry about not being clear I’m new to this. So basically, the only two trees that are going into the main line of the first two that I tap at the top. Nothing after that is going into the main line. And it appears I have plenty of vacuum at the top two trees.

I am using 3/16 tubing and used these barbed stem fittings from fresh water systems: www.freshwatersystems.com/products/dmfit-stem-barb-straight-connector-1-4-od-stem-x-1-4-id-barb These push right into the push to connect fittings for easy assembly/disassembly. All the valves and tees etc can be found easily on Amazon including the 1/4 to 3/8 tees a.co/d/911EmQs I have page here with more details: www.roseummaple.com/2021/02/316-tubing-vacuum-system.html

I am using a 12v 15 amp power supply I had on hand and put it inside the electrical enclosure. However I would recommend this transformer given its specs and IP67 waterproof rating. a.co/d/82m0HTp

Good to know! I am tapping primarily forest based red maples and most the time my sugar content is only around 1.2% as well. RO is a MUST.

Be sure to check out part 2, where I built a yoke to hold the spool. ruclips.net/video/bmco0vR-Cck/видео.html Or how it's used to install tubing ruclips.net/video/jYkZl7bb8jY/видео.htmlsi=4qgLnFSLsiyZQg2T

You are very welcome!

Never tried this approach. I have done a flush, wash, flush (leaving water in the system) and then left the membranes in the system for an entire off-season without preservative. Results were pretty good, but I did have one year where a couple of the membranes in a 5 membrane system didn't stay nearly as clean. After replacing those I decided to go this route.

Either should be fine. For spring water, I'd probably filter and boil it.

Very welcome

When you flush the system, it has to be at low pressure (near zero) and high flow to scrub the sugar particles off the surface of the membrane and out through the concentrate line. Only at high pressure are you forcing water through the membrane.

Same direction but with needle valve wide open.

Thank you

You're welcome!

You're welcome!

There are at home well water test kits that check for bacteria. I've never used one so I cannot make any recommendations on them. Carbon block filter is really only needed for city/treated water that may have low levels of chlorine (to remove chlorine).

Carbon block filter is really only needed for city/treated water that may have low levels of chlorine (to remove chlorine).

Deionized/demineralized water should be fine as long as it doesn't have high bacteria counts or other contaminants that wouldn't be removed by that process.

Each membrane housing design might be different. For this specific 3012 model from Membrane Solutions, the permeate is the lower port (almost in middle) and concentrate is higher and to the right. www.amazon.com/stores/page/F52DD3B0-BCA3-4BE4-A8B2-02EFC4C75251?maas=maas_adg_93A7FFB30C41A20B0D3842E955AA8A5B_afap_abs&ref_=aa_maas&tag=maas

They are basic 1/4 push fit needle valves with a white knob epoxied to the small metal knob. a.co/d/jk4rMUA a.co/d/g3nzmQZ

This is the Dauntless drop flue pan set from SmokyLake and is 20 x 40 inches. The pack feed pan is another 20 x 8 inches. This is on a custom natural gas arch I built with a small low-speed blower to assist the exhaust gas draft. I average about 15 gph on this setup.

I will try to provide a more detailed list, but the key parts are: (1) Shurflo 12 Volt RV Water Pump 3.0 GPM - 4008-101-A65 / E65 & strainer (2) a 12V DC power supply (I used 15 amps) (3) 2 of the W1209 temperature controllers (4) a heat source (I used watlow 100w strip heater I had) (5) Coleman 16 qt cooler (6) LMioEtool Enclosure with Clear Cover 8.7 x 6.7 x 4.3inch a.co/d/6sjASI8 (7) vacuum Guage (8) 3/8 & 1/4 poly tubing, tees, valves etc. I used 3/8 for manifold and 3/8 x 1/4 tees with 1/4 valve for each lateral sap line

Very limited options for this low of flow rate (LZM-15 is best option) and didn't think it's worth the $25 each. It's very easy to see if the flowrates are comparable. I use an internal low pressure recirculation loop to increase concentration and be able to have a lower concentrate to permeate ratio than 1:4. It's more like 1:3 or 4. Yes that is degrees Fahrenheit. I vote for building, but you have to use the right components. I've built 4 units (scaling up and improving each time) and loved the results. If you buy, I'd recommend one of the RO Bucket models. Believe it is a lot more tried and true and hear Carl provides great support. I think the UV filter in the Vermont evap sugar cube is attractive in theory but much research on UV filters by the UVM have shown they aren't maybe as effective as one would hope. Can't say for sure as I've never used them.

Thank you, Tom! Yes, it works amazing and saves tons of time and frustration! I have lines that are ~1200 ft with ~30 taps that I can easily put up or take down very quickly using this thing. No problems with CVs. I replace yearly and like the extended drop line life (for sanitation purposes) and ability to tap below lateral with them to increase tapping band. Overall very happy with them. The line in the video is an odd one. It's a small group of trees towards the top of a hill on the side of my property and all that zig zagging is necessary to get them tapped. Seperate lines wouldn't make sense as there aren't enough trees. I have over 50ft of elevation drop after the last tap and a shurflo pump and consistently pull 25+ inHG on it.

Thank you!

Thank you!

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thank you!

I'm referring back to the video to clean my pan today. One last time before winter sets in. Thanks again.

I also grew up going to the Geauga County Maple Festival in Chardon, OH and have loved maple stirs since that same age! Nearly 40 years later, it's still a family tradition to go, taking my children now and meeting up with my parents there!

Yes, I make syrup in very small batches compared to commercial / large-scale operations, averaging a little over 1 gallon per boil. We are very small (100 taps) and I do everything myself, including build a lot of my equipment. Have a great day.

Thank you! Please be sure to check out our other videos!

Yes it is. I understand that this pan configuration has been discontinued and they now make a single hybrid pan with drop flues. I custom built this arch all out of 304 stainless angle for the frame and 26 Guage 304 stainless for the sidewalls. I built the custom natural gas manifold and stainless burners as well and lined the entire thing with 2300F 1-inch insulation. I also raised the back head tank up above the flue pan unlike their arch. It picks up heat from the exhaust going to the stack behind it and can be fully drained to feed flue pan. When down on same level as flue pan you have 7 gallons of sap that could not be fed to the pans. Also added sanitary fittings and valves everywhere to make it very easy to reverse flow by moving float box to opposite side and swapping pan coupling pipe and drawoff. ruclips.net/video/6FyWa9l-kw0/видео.html

No. There are pros/cons of recirculation in a diaphram vacuum setup. Once sap begins flowing, recirc doesn't help, it actually reduces effectiveness.

You can leave it or disconnect the membrane(s) and seal them off by putting a closed ball valve on the inlet tube and then open and rinse out the filter housing and store that dry.

Sodium Hydroxide (NAOH) for "soap wash", then flush liberally with water, then use Sodium metabisulfite for perservative. leaderevaporator.com/membrane-preservative/ leaderevaporator.com/leader-ro-soap/

@@RoseumMapleSyrup Thanks for the information. Can you tell me what the ratio of sodium metabisulfite to permeate I should use?

Thank you! It * might * work. Elevation alone will eat up nearly 45 psi. Friction losses may very well eat up the rest of the 55 psi the pump can operate at. You could always give it a try, and if it won't work with the lines installed, you could coil some of the line from the top down to a lower elevation that will work. 4 gallons will FILL over 8000 feet of tubing total but you also need to account for fluid flowing out of each tap. Last year I used approximately 8 gallons of solution for 5000 ft of lines with 100 taps.

Thank you very much. I didn't have a practical sense for the outflow volumes or the pressures. This gives me a much better place to start from! Hope the rest of your season goes well!

Thank you! I am glad you are enjoying our videos, which are geared toward small scale & hobby producers. Please be sure to checkout the rest of them on our channel @roseummaplesyrup. Also, feel free to provide suggestions for future video topics!

Thank you!

Thank you, Dave!

Thank you!