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That's a very concise and well-put description of the two styles. Thanks for commenting.

@@nonward Thank you, kind sir. High quality stuff from you as well. LLAP 🖖

That's a really good point about Fall Out Boy's role, as a lot of neon pop punk artists were on his label (Hey Monday, Cobra Starship, The Academy Is...), and I agree that this helped to provide a bridge between the two and associate the two together. Thanks for the very thoughtful and insightful comment.

@@nonward Likewise thanks for the deep analysis of the music! I thought it was interesting how you said Pop-Punk increasingly moved from the Punk end to the Pop end of the genre's spectrum, culminating with Neon-Pop. It's also interesting how after that it went back underground with more mature and some introspective lyrics with the Sadboy Pop-Punk era of the 2010s. But you can definitely hear traces of Neon-Pop with the bright colours and synth parts of the overlapping Easycore era, as well!

Thank you; that's very true and interesting, that the two subgenres do have those similarities I was not aware of, and I'm not very knowledgeable about a lot of the sadboi subgenre beyond the Wonder Years and select songs from others, but yeah, going straight to that from neon pop punk (and the musically and lyrically fun/upbeat and similarly bright aesthetics of easycore) is a very significant and interesting shift that is a bit surprising to me.

Yeah I think there’s a few factors there. The biggest would be like you said Neon-Pop would be the last significant time there was a style of Pop-Punk in the mainstream. After that fell off, kids who grew up listening to Pop-Punk grew up so they were writing relatively more mature songs (like the Wonder Years and the Story So Far writing about college) also because Pop-Punk and more broadly Rock were not in the mainstream Top 40 radio anymore the style went underground again. Overall I really like those moves and it kept it alive for me with Title Fight and Forever Came Calling being my favourite bands of the Sadboy Pop-Punk era. Also Title Fight went on to really create the Soft Grunge style which was closely associated with the 4th Wave Emo Revival, but drew more from Grunge, Shoegaze, and Dream Pop over Midwest Emo. The last point I would say about the subculture shift would be correlated to the culture shift in the West after the 2007/08 Financial Crisis. It had a cultural latency effect where the negative feelings from that didn’t permeate Pop Culture until a few years later. But you can see by 2013 it wasn’t just Sadboy Pop-Punk, TV and movies had also become a lot more cynical and ironic. Neon-Pop and Easycore were like the last breath of the more heart-on-your-sleeve sunny 2000s. I think that’s why many people who have grew up since draw happiness from these styles of music written when the Pop Culture was more optimistic. I like all these styles of Pop-Punk but they definitely suit different moods or feelings you want to experience around the era they embody.

Yeah, that makes sense about them maturing, and like you said, the Wonder Years' significant thematic/lyrical transition from Get Stoked on It! to the Upsides is certainly a good example of that. And that's an interesting point connecting these trends in pop punk to the Great Recession and the broader culture going on. I had never thought about it that way.

@@brandonrohan4768 Thank you so much for the very kind words; I really appreciate it.

Nice. I don't know a lot of these; I'll have to check them out. Thanks for sharing.

Sorry about that; they definitely should have been mentioned as they are certainly one of the most important/successful bands of that wave of screamo, and both They're Only Chasing Safety and Define the Great Line are both, of course, very significant albums in the genre. It totally slipped my mind somehow. Thank you for commenting and for mentioning them.

Thank you so much. Nice, while I personally prefer more melodic/softer emo, I do like some songs by Saetia/Indian Summer, and I think the genre has an interesting and dynamic sound, and it seems like it was important and influential on some more accessible/mainstream bands like Thursday/Silverstein. Thank you for commenting.

@@nonward Great bands! I especially love Indian Summer.

I'm not familiar with these bands but just based off of a few songs, they both sound like screamo/skramz to me.

Thank u good sir.

I'm sorry; I'm not entirely sure what you mean, and I may be misunderstanding, so please feel free to clarify/elaborate, but if you're saying it's, like, other people's responsibility to define the genre (or any genre) and not necessarily a single individual who ultimately defines it, I certainly am partial to that view and think I would agree. Thank you for the comment.

Haha. Yeah, this is basically me as well; I definitely can relate to this a lot, except for me it was all the scene artists being called emo, haha, but I realized my own definition of emo was not so consistent. Thanks for the thoughtful/insightful comment.

Haha, I can totally relate and do prefer that sound (which imo is a bit darker and more dramatic, which I like) and have had a hard time getting into many of the emo revival bands. Thank you for commenting.

@@nonward i luv the dramatic edge to it, it's like it's like it's not even self-aware or thrives in being cringe. plus, it was everywhere back in my day and while i was already an insufferable music snob, the bangers were undeniable, who doesn't love a good pop ditty? revival on the other hand is unlistenable

Im sorry

Haha. It's the only thing we can be absolutely sure of in this life.

Take Off Your Pants and Jacket is really good too, and I agree that it's close; personally Enema of the State through Neighborhoods are all pretty close for me, with One More Time... not far off. It seems like plenty of fans do consider TOYPAJ to be their best, and I could see it being viewed as like a more refined Enema of the State and sort of like them perfecting their pure pop punk sound, and I do think it's one of their most consistent albums, though for me, I've tended to prefer their darker/more experimental stuff personally. Just curious, if you don't mind sharing, why is it your favorite personally? And thank you for commenting.

Thank you so much. And while I personally am generally a fan of genres and think they can be useful/helpful, you certainly make a very good and important point, and I do agree to an extent; they can easily become excessive, be confusing/distracting, limit creativity, and pigeonhole artists, and it's also true that many of these "emo" bands preferred to just call themselves "punk" or "rock," just like you said. Thank you for the thoughtful comment and for the very kind words.

Thanks so much; I appreciate it

@@cherah1 Thank you so much

Those are very good and interesting points I hadn't really considered, and it's true that the music has changed a lot and many newer "rock" styles are pretty far removed from the original roots of rock music, and it makes sense that it would have a different appeal, like being more energetic than rebellious, like you said. And nice songs; they definitely have a really cool, unique sound. Thank you for the thoughtful comment.

I agree; both of those are great albums, and I can relate about American Idiot, as it's why I first started making music and is still my all-time favorite album. Thank you for commenting and sharing your thoughts.

Thank you so much; I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much

Yeah, I agree. That's a very good way of putting it. And I would also argue that it almost feels like with bands like Green Day and the Offspring and their poppier take on punk rock (which ultimately is still much closer to pure punk rock than blink-182, of course) that they had almost a competing take on the definition/primary sound of pure pop punk, but it was bands like blink-182, I think, who ultimately defined the genre as primarily being more accessible/less traditionally punk-sounding than bands like Green Day/The Offspring, maybe because its accessibility gave it broader appeal. Thanks for commenting.

Yes, I agree; that's very true and a really good point. Those albums, especially Saviors, certainly seemed to be viewed by fans as a return to form for Green Day after the trilogy and especially after Father of All... And while American Idiot, I think, was their most successful comeback, especially commercially, these were also successful and probably should/could have been at least mentioned (along with So Much (for) Stardust by Fall Out Boy); I guess, for some reason, I had it in my head that I could only talk about one successful comeback per band, though not really sure why, ha. Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

@@punkdoggo211 Thanks so much. I appreciate it

Thanks so much

Thank you; I appreciate it. I guess the album/that era of All Time Low isn't often quite talked about in that way, it seems, but I do think there's an argument to be made that it fits.

@@Roozzzzwe Thank you so much

Thank you

Very good point. Personally, I think it's close and think that their influence on blink-182 and significant influence on multiple waves of bands is certainly a strong argument in favor of Green Day over blink-182. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

That's a very good point, and I feel like you could make a case for either (the Offspring as punk rock AND pop punk vs. just punk rock). They certainly are one of the most influential (and commercially successful) bands in the genre and there's also a strong case for them being the most influential given they influenced a number of big bands, like Blink-182, as you said. Thanks so much for commenting

That's a perfectly valid and good argument, and I do think Green Day are probably more influential overall, like outside of pop punk. And it's certainly true Green Day influenced blink-182, although I also think that blink-182 developed their own sound which was separately influential, but again, your argument certainly is a very good one, and the extent to which blink-182 developed a separate sound, as well as its influence on bands compared to Green Day, is debatable. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I agree Wishing Well is a very good song, and I totally get that, and I like most of the songs from One More Time and One More Time - Part 2, though I still prefer Neighborhoods, I'll admit I'm biased and prefer their darker/less upbeat stuff, though maybe my opinion will change, as I often am bad at guessing how I will feel about stuff later when it's new. Thank you for commenting

@@nonward I agree with the darker tone preference, which is why I like the song One Night Stand, it’s dark, childish like old blink, but has the more melodic and upbeat tone in the music quality

Oh, yeah, I totally agree. One Night Stand is one of my favorites from Part 2.

Yeah I agree, and interesting/nice way of putting it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

@@nonward yeah, I just don’t like Green Day either, they’re too liberal for me

Oh, sorry, I might have misunderstood what you meant before about Green Day, as I am a fan of theirs, but I do agree that, even though it seems like it's been a part of their image/identity since American Idiot, I'm not personally really a fan of that aspect of them and they can get a bit too political at times, in my view.

@@nonwardBeing political isn’t a problem for a punk band but I don’t think GD adds anything interesting to the table when talking about politics and honestly AI is hardly an album about politics outside of the obvious examples

That's a good point; punk rock is definitely one of the genres that is more thematically interested in politics (similarly to some types of hip hop and folk), and it is true most of the songs on American Idiot aren't overtly political, though it seems like politics was still a significant part of the overall theme/statement/message of the album, and I agree that their takes on politics haven't been super interesting, in my opinion, which is probably a better way to put what I was trying to say about how I feel about them being political. Thank you for your thoughtful, knowledgeable, and insightful comments.

Haha, thank you. That's a nice name. And personally, I kind of agree about Green Day, assuming you're referring to their newer music; I know a lot of fans think Saviors is a return to form for them, but I just haven't really been able to get into much of their stuff after American Idiot, and I much preferred One More Time to Saviors. Thank you for your comment.

Yeah, I agree with this, and that's an important point; personally, I think it's close, but I do lean toward Green Day for rock music (and music in general probably as well, imo) if only because of arguably greater awareness of the band overall and because they were commercially bigger than blink-182 and easily one of the biggest rock bands of the '90s and '00s. Thank you for commenting.

Thank you so much; I really appreciate it. And those are great points, and I felt the same way and I feel that really, an argument could be made for either band for different reasons. And I think I've heard of them but don't know anything by them and will have to check them out. Thank you for the thoughtful comment.

@@nonward check out the song May 16 by Lagwagon, they are a really melodic punk band and have great musicianship. Yes both bands hold so much value in Punk, i love them both. Great video 👍

Nice song and nice melodies/riffs/overall sound. I also liked the album, especially "Train" and "Love Story." Thanks for recommending them.

@@nonward So glad you enjoyed Train and Love Story! Really catchy stuff, they really encapsulate that 90s nostalgia. I also suggest "Violins". That is their other most popular single. Wishing you luck on youtube nice videos!

@@michaelkozma5929 I agree; yeah, "Violins" is also good, and they do, in my opinion, seem to have a fairly consistent sound that captures that very well. Thank you, and I appreciate the support.

Yeah, I feel like they're maybe a little overlooked at times, maybe because they kind of peaked commercially earlier than a lot of other bands in the conversation, but the Offspring were, of course, hugely influential for punk rock/pop punk in the '90s and Smash and Americana were two of the biggest punk rock/pop punk albums of all time

Yeah, I tend to agree, and at times I think the genre can maybe feel a bit stagnant, as many bands seem to be lacking somewhat in experimentation/individuality. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

This is a good and interesting point and not something I had really considered, and I agree that Green Day does have a very distinct sound (at least in the ways I tend to notice, like their riffs, melodies, and vocal style) that kind of come together in a way that may be difficult for other bands to copy, though I think at least a few aspects of blink-182's sound (particularly Tom's vocal style and also their contrasting dual vocals) may also be somewhat difficult to copy, though I could see Green Day having the edge here. Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

I dont agree. Many bands tried to copy blink but none has ever succeded as such. If blink was an easy band to copy, then this discussion would be pointless. In adittion, the “blink” sound everyone talks about its just the enema and take off blink era, which blink is more known for perhaps, but blink sounds its actually pretry unique on its own, specially from the untitled album and forward. Im a huge blink fan and with all of their cataloge up there I understand why people think of blink as a pop punk band, but they are actually pretty hard to classify if you listen to non 1999-2002 era.

That's a good point. I can see the argument that as they have evolved and experimented with their sound, they have further developed creatively and perhaps have a difficult-to-replicate unique combination of sounds and influences, and very few bands seem to have this sound, and while Green Day certainly has a unique sound, I can also see this view and may be a bit more partial to it actually, though I am a bit biased as I prefer the darker/experimental side of blink-182, and Untitled and Neighborhoods are two of my favorite albums.

I'm sorry but I have to hard disagree.

Yeah, I agree; that's a really good way of summing up the difference in their influence. Thanks for commenting

Blink perfected pop punk to the point that saying Green Day is pop punk is just wrong - that is, assuming we’re talking melodically. lyrically and by definition they ARE pop punk, but otherwise you cannot say that Green Day and Blink are the same genre

@taraniatheanicomguy7898 I agree; that's a very good/insightful point, I think, about blink-182's influence on the genre and how they changed/even redefined it.

Good point. Yeah, I agree. It does seem like more pop punk bands have emulated their sound, though both blink-182 and Green Day, I think, have inspired a lot of musicians/bands. Thanks for commenting

Haha, I really like this metaphor. It's very creative and accurate/illustrative imo. Thank you for commenting

Yeah, I agree. It definitely seems like overall that pop punk bands, especially around the early-to-mid-2000s, were more influenced by blink-182's sound than Green Day's. Thanks for commenting.

LOL that's because Green Day's signature sound is not easy band to copy, regardless of how simple their formula is. How many bands out there sound like them? Blink's signature sound, on the other hand, is very easy to copy, this is why there are lots of copycat bands around trying to copy them. This does not make their sound more influential, just easier to copy. Green Day's music is more unique.

There's definitely a strong argument for them being most influential, and I definitely should have included them in the video, as in many ways, pop punk can really be traced back to the Descendents, I think, but I still feel like blink-182 went on to develop their own sound that was closer to modern pop punk and more directly influenced the genre and more bands, where personally I give more weight to direct, rather than indirect, influence, though the argument that as the Descendents were such an important originator/precursor of pop punk that they are the most influential on the genre is perfectly valid as well.

Screeching Weasel, NOFX, Face to Face and Jawbreaker were way more influential to that early blink sound I feel like the Descendents definitely influenced them a bit especially with the lyrics and sense of humor but those bands I mentioned influenced their sound more

Absolutely. In my view, Enema of the State is probably the most influential pop punk album