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@@SteveBrown-fv9hf that's great man. Put the video up and send a link I'd like to hear it. I wanna say the cam worked out great for me with 1.52 rockers but with 1.6 at .480 lift it was pushing what I could do with the 193 swirlports. The difference feom 1.52 to 1.6 just on the intake was pretty dramatic. I'm actually considering still runnimg the 8800 cam after I put the new AFR 195 heads on it with 1.6 rockers both in./ex. I think with way better heads and full 3" exhaust installed @ .480 lift and a short duration it will make for a really torquey engine off at lowend and midrange.

@@nathanb5224 I have at least a half dozen or more videos of the car with the cam in it with 1.52 rocker and also after switching to 1.6 on the intake. With full mellow flowmaster 80 exhaust and with open headers only and no cat. With a full exhaust once settled in and timed correctly it has a pretty mellow almost stock sound as there's more lift than duration and pretty wide lobe separation. It's a good little torque cam that won't give you a crap load of horsepower but also doesn't lose any torque down low. Sounds healthy and if it'll work with your heads and you have the proper clearance for it, with 1.6 rockers @ .480 lift it does have just enough lope that it almost sounds like a mini truck norris cam, but for sbc. It worked well for me. The car is sitting because I'm going a different route. Bought AFR 195 heads for up to .600 lift cam, trans rebuild kit, full single 3" exhaust and Doug's ceramic shorty headers. May actually keep the same cam for now as it will probably make a lot more power with the full cylinder head and exhaust swap. Right now limited by time and money.

@@nathanb5224 here is one of the first videos once I got the car tuned well and the original tuned port cpu working with the cam and the holley stealth ram. ruclips.net/video/td_k85jeqFs/видео.htmlfeature=shared

@@nathanb5224 This is a before after clip switching from 1.52 roller tip rockers to 1.6 roller rockers with original exhaust manifolds and cat and flowmaster 80 catback exhaust. I think once I got to .480 lift with 1.6 rockers I realized my restrictive 193 swirlport heads and restrictive exhaust and old cat weren't going to cut it causing driveabilty issues and I was going to have to upgrade. I think a set of Vortec heads and slightly better exhaust would be a good pair with the cam. I hope this helps you a little bit. ruclips.net/video/bNLtCPszeNk/видео.htmlfeature=shared

@@SteveBrown-fv9hf no I have not done anything. I realized for a bigger cam I'm going to want stronger rockers and better hydraulic lifters to go with the .600 springs in the heads and gaskets and some other parts on my list. It all comes down to money and I kind of want to rebuild the trans at the same time I'm freshening up the top end of the motor and doing the exhaust. It's been a struggle this year hard to stare at like $2,500 worth of shiny parts amd realize you can't do anything at the moment. I may just keep the 8800 in there, nothing wrong with that cam, just that I bought the heads set up for about .560 lift with 1.6 rockers and why not stick with that. However I could just switch the springs out and call it a day idk. I feel like the heads and exhaust is going to make the most difference anyway. Could be a sleeper with that cam.

@@stephengamble9388 It will hit small dime to quarter sized targets fairly consistantly out to 60yds if there's no wind. Still figuring out which pellets it likes best. So far it's a toss up between H&N Field Trophy Target in 5.54mm or 5.55mm @ 14.63 grains and JSB Exact 5.5mm @ 15.89 grains. I wanna say the JSB's have an edge after about 40 or 50yds. Gets tricky on a breezy day but I've had 5 pellets in one clean hole at 25yds.

Tuning a hw97 is a waste of money. The Hw97 is good out to 75 yards..22 or .177

Would probably have to check the valve retainer to valve guide seal clearance. I used stiffer springs and +.050 thousands valve retainers. Which is just a quick fix. Now going a different route with some AFR heads set up for .600 lift.

I will say tho before I switched to 1.6 rockers I was running the springs that came in the car completely untouched with some comp 1.52 roller tips so .456 lift on 193 swirlport heads with no issues. Have to do some research on the Vortecs but I wanna say they should be good with decent springs.

A 4.5mm will shoot a little flatter trajectory and a 5.5mm will be a little slower but hit a little harder at further a distance because the pellets weigh about 50% more. If you are looking at using it for pesting or hunting a 4.5mm would be fine for birds, squirrels or rabbits at closer distances. I've killed several groundhogs within 25yds with my .22 cal (5.5mm) version and accuracy is key. I will not shoot anything other than H&N or JSB pellets in 14gr-18gn weights. JSB Exact 15.9gr and H&N Field Trophy Target, 14.6gr in larger head sizes shoot the most accurately for me in my 5.5mm HW97K.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 thank you!

I do in some of my other videos.

ruclips.net/video/td_k85jeqFs/видео.htmlfeature=shared Like this one.

ruclips.net/user/shortsv6O-LtcTVlY?feature=shared Or this one here

Cam specs say operating range is from idle to 5,800rpm's as opposed to longer duration cams which are from 1,500 or 2,000 up to 6,500 or more. So it does pull pretty good down low even with the Stealth Ram which has a much shorter intake runner length than the original tpi setup. If I go with a bigger cam I'm going to go for more lift without much more duration. I'm really sold on the newer trend towards cam grinds with more lift and less duration. They keep the torque coming on down low where you need it most of the time. Might go up to an 8801 maybe and 8802 but no bigger. Possibly a Lingenfelter 219 cam. I want to keep some really healthy torque down low when I get the new AFR 195's, full 3" exhaust and Doug's ceramic coated shorties installed. Hoping for a pretty decent gain there. Looking at basically .525 lift with 1.5 rockers on all three of those cams and .560 lift with 1.6's. Unfortunately, I'll have to upgrade to LS7 lifters, stronger pushrods and rockers rated for more spring pressure to handle the spings on my new heads which are rated to .600 lift, but power should be way up.

Thanks for the comment. I like the way it fires just fine. I got the 16ft/lb model specifically so I could target shoot and hunt also. I've got pesky groundhogs encroaching on my property and I need all the spring I can get. I absolutely love the HW97K and how well crafted it is and how accurate it shoots. I'm currently going through my last 8 or so tins of JSB and H&N pellets to decide which weight and/or brand it prefers best. Seems to like pellets on the larger diameter side about 5.53 to 5.55mm.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 it is indeed legendary! Good luck on the groundhogs, should be no problem when they pop out seeing you’re nailing those spinners easily👌🏻 all the best:)

I wanna say as far as I've read vortecs are good to at least .450 and as much as .470 or more with the right springs. Just do a little research amd make sure you got enought valve guide to valve retainer clearance. As long as it's a block that takes an oem stepped nose hydraulic roller cam you should be fine. That was specifically why I got the cam. I didn't wamt to push the envelope on clearances.

It will work, i have one and am thinking about installing and running it. I am leaning towards dumping some money and going bigger, cam, studs, springs. Hate having car not running...

Wouldn't it be hard to have both hands on the wheel when one of them is holding the camera, eh hombre 🤔 ?

No, not yet. I got it because that was as high as i could go safely with my heads. It's a pretty mild cam but it worked out nice for my first build. This video is with no exhaust. Sounds pretty mellow in my other videos with flowmaster 80 series catback. I have some AFR 195 heads now that are good for .600 lift so I may be stepping up to the Summit Pro SBC 8802 cam or Lingenfelter 219 cam with 1.6 rockers for about .550 lift.

1.6 rockers add lift so it goes from being acceptable to engine damage, especially in vortecs with their low valve stem seal clearance. Valve spring specs become a major concern as lift rises also, keep lift low or get better springs. It might run at lower rpms but when you try to rev it out you will be risking vavle float...

I was pleased with that cam as a stand alone upgrade in a 91 305.

I'm sure you could too buddy 👍

You do realize the speedo goes to 145mph, and it's got 193 swirlport truck heads with the stock exhaust manifolds on it. So that may be your answer.

Hard to say, read about 1,000 but my gauge is off by up to 1,500rpms up high so it could be reading as much as 25 percent higher than actual so maybe 750rpms.

About 300-400ft. above sea level. I decided to go another route and and bought some new AFR heads and full exhaust and am getting ready to rebuild the transmission. It was fun to drive but I think the swirlport heads are holding the car back. Currently porting my new headers to port match the new cylinder heads. When done the only original flow restrictions in the engine will be the maf housing and the 48mm throttle body. Hoping the Stealth Ram, heads and full exhaust will make a substancial difference in power.

What did you times seven seconds at ? I timed it at seven, just for 60 to 100 mph?

Aah- seven seconds 0 to 60? My time said about 21 seconds 0 to 120

@@malcolmwhite6588 7 0-60

That's cool man 👍 congratulations. I don't know what you expect it's an 87 Camaro with cylinder heads from a pickup truck and restrictive stock iron log style manifold. Didn't hit the gas until after 10 seconds and lifted 3 times till letting out altogether at the 21 second mark going probably actually about 125mph. Not bad for an 80's or 90's car if you ask me. I'm glad ur car is faster 👏👏

Just noticed huh? We just noticed your BS.

I never said it was a 12 second car. The car had lots of issues when I got it. Most of these cars ran 15 sec. quarter miles stock so if my clapped out pos Camaro with 37 year old parts and dry rotted vacuum lines only runs a 14 whatever at 90 something mph. with a stock exhaust and unported GM swirlports that don't eveen belong on it wtf do you care. Go work on or drive whatever it is that is that you like and piss off. I have a car that is fixed up that didnt even run, has a tiny short duration cam in it, and an intake and stock exhaust and runs pretty damn good for all that actual crap I had to go through to get it there.

It needs fixed. It's common problem with the old IROC's that can be fixed.

River ? Beer ? 🤷‍♂️

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 power plant

Yeah, didn't used to do that that it actually jumps to about 140mph for a split second but when 3rd is wound out and I let off it goes into 4th settlea back down about 120mph or so. Car needs a lot of work everywhere.

Speedo said nope 😆

At one point in the video all gauges are maxed out except the fuel and the battery if you pause at just the right second 😆🤣🤣 0:31

​@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854if you would have honked the horn right when they were all pegged it's been Said you can travel time...

@@blindabinda1234 damn, I forgot to reconnect the horn that day.

More soon. That's with a Holley Stealth Ram feeding air to a set of stock GM swirlport 193 heads.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854that’s a good head below 4k rpm above that they aren’t very efficient

@@PHILLY214 the stealth ram intake and cam says you will be efficient at 5k and you will like it or else 😆

Yeah for now, trans is coming out soon to get rebuilt though so might step up to a 2600. Got a set of afr heads and doug's shorties going in with full 3" exhaust so i may go up to the Summit 8801 or 8802 or lingenfelter 219 cam. Trying to keep the intake duration below 220 to keep the torque peak down lower in the rpms also avoid having to use a really high stall speed. I want the car to be very streetable but fast.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 sounds awesome, did it have any driveability issues?

@@Snakeman1985 I did have some issues after I switched to the 1.6 rockers on the intake for a total lift of .480 lift and decided to pull the catalytic converter out and was running it open headers. I don't think the computer liked that much of a change and I believe I exceeded the potential of the 193 swirlport heads and valve springs at that point. Probably getting into to much cylinder pressure amd brink of detonation. I was having some intermittent stuttering at part throttle low and midrange and then she would just go like slingshot. Put the 1.52 rockers back in and that went away. So I decided maybe I should just get a good set of heads. So I order the Summit Presision finished heads they are basically an AFR 195 aluminum head a with 65cc chamber set up for up to .600 lift. Gonna possibly look at going about .550 with fairly short duration.

@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 did the torque converter cause any issues? BTW I subscribed I love these old gms

@@Snakeman1985 no problem with the stock converter with this cam. I have other videos with the full exhaust and cat still on with regular 1.52 rockers which is .456 lift and it's pretty mellow once the computer learns and the tune settles in. Plenty of torque down low. I got a couple burnouts on video around here somewhere.

Idk about that, might be more like 5 and some change, but, I'm gettin ready to rebuild the trans, full 3" exhaust with shorty headers and possibly some Trickflow heads so might be a solid 4 after that.

I've heard if you do a light port job with port match on the swirlports they make some really great low emd and midrange torque. I just slapped a Holley Stealth Ram on there with a small cam install, didn't touch a thing.

😆😆🤣

I used the Comp Magnum Roller Tip self aligning rockers 1.6 and 1.52. I have no headwork done and they are basically what some people would call junk 193 / tbi swirlport heads. Transmission needs rebuilt so I may be going over the engine and possibly some new heads or a port job. Retainers were Summit 7° +.050 to give me more retainer to valve guide clearance. I also had to carefully grind the self aligning spurs down a smidge so they would have clearance simce there is less valve tip sticking up due to the +.050 retainers.

Thinkin about it after getting the new heads on it

I have the 8802 in my 355 with AFR enforcer heads. I'm pleased with it. Runs 12.95 at 106. Still has nice manners in 88 Formula with 3.73 gears. I just today ordered the 8800 for a good running 305 with 081 TPI heads and 9.4 compression. It has similar specs as the sum 1200 which also ran awesome but started marking a few lifters.

@@SteveBrown-fv9hf that is exactly what I needed to hear today. I switched out my tpi for a holley stealth ram and the only reason I didnt get a bigger cam was because of the oddball 193 swirlport heads on it. Since I'm rebuilding the trans I figured I'd go full ceramic shorty headers into full 3" collector and 3" exhaust all the way back and some AFR enforcers. I think the 8802 is still about as big as I'd want to go I wanna keep the duration kinda short. Hearing that your similar setup runs about 13 sec. Makes me want to go for the 8802. Sounds about where I wanna be, not too rowdy and still plenty of torque down low. Kind of want to avoid getting a higher stall converter.

I'm not sure actually but it's ok, I have no problems with power brakes or anything.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 my idle sounds alot more stock than yours does

@@ethanol-fb 1.6 rockers and open headers in a 355c.i. motor. I ha e a couple other videos before i switched the rockers amd removed the cat, and it sounded almost stock then.

Yeah it's do-able. It was either this or one of the comp extreme 4x4 cams. I think I could have gotten away with the X4260hr with 1.52 rockers and +.050 valve retainers with stiffer springs, which is .474 lift, about .480 with 1.52 rockers, would be about max lift without having to machine or really mess with the heads. Duration on those is a bit more. 210/214.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 that comp cam is so much I’d rather save couple hundred get the 8800 I just got long tubes for wish I put a cam in the motor when I had it torn down and out of my truck

@@kronic9892 yeah that's exactly why I got the Summit Cam. And the 8801 and 8802 are about the same or one step up from an lt4 hot cam so if you ever decide to get a nice set of heads that can take more lift that's a decent option.

on vortec heads(dunno if its the same for older center bolt heads), drive your valve seals on all the way(factory didnt, and you lose lift clearance), grab some z28 springs, remove the inner damper spring, and youre good to like .500 lift. the valve springs are like 50-80 bucks. part number for the springs i like is howards: HRC98214

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 i dont like comp cams rollers, because they use cast cores, whereas the sum-8800 series is billet cores(made by crane most likely)

I didn't but my engine was pretty fresh and already had a similar roller cam

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 i have a vortec engine and i am swapping out the stock cam for an 8800, which isnt much more aggressive than the stock cam, i believe the stock cam is 194/204. I am hoping to not have to changed anything out other than the cam, already has beehive springs and retainers. was there a difference going to 1.6 rockers?

@@iDrive4fun93 I definately noticed a difference going to 1.6 rockers you just have to make sure with whatever heads you have that you have clearance. With my 193 tbi heads .450 is about the limit where valve retainer to valve guide clearance is about the safe limit, so they say. So I got stiffer springs and +.050 valve retainers, also .060 spring washers for under the valve springs to compensate for the retainers being higher on the valve stem. This also requires the spring to sit higher, hence the spring washers. I only wemt 1.6 on intake so far, total lift is .480 with 1.6 rockers regardless of whatever the Summit website says. The cam info was changed at some point and it is wrong. .450 with 1.6 is .480 lift.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 Hey did you use stock valve springs with the 1.6 upgrade?

@@masonite1973No I upgeaded to Summit Springs rated to .490 lift

doing the same

It is the biggest cam you can run safely with zero other mods. Never put in a vortec so can't be sure of power difference, but was very noticeable in an old 91 305...

Yes, it's the Pro Sbc 8800 with 1.6 rockers on the intake and 1.52 on the exhaust side for .480int. /.456exh. total lift cranking air into a set of 193 casting "tbi" heads with Summit valve springs rated for .490 lift and +.050 valve retainers for valve guide to retainer clearance. Heads are stock and fed by a Holley Stealth Ram fuel intected intake all running off a stock '87 tuned port ecu with a burned piggyback eprom chip. Running open stock manifolds, no exhaust from where the cat was until I find a 3" replacement pipe that fits to make a full 3" oit the back. Next step is porting another set of 193 heads amd then hopefully soon a fully rebuilt 700r4 transmission.

Timing is a little off and probably need a retune now, the 1.6 rockers made more of a difference than i thought. Should see the thing go in 1st gear from a slow roll it's silly. I should have recorded a little more. Just don't want to get arrested. 😆🤣🤣

Yeah it's coming along nicely. I'm waiting on a back ordered timing chain from summit. Ordering a oil pump next week. Should have mine together end of the month. Let you know how it runs.

@@mikef7968 I ordered a double roller timing chain from Summit amd forgot to put it in. Still got it lol.

You're building the Grand Prix right? You should definately post up some videos, I'd give you a sub. I wanna know how those vortecs work out with this cam. Send me a link if you post up a vid.

Thanks, will do!

Your welcome, I decided to just do top end because it was a fresh jasper in the car bored .030 over to 355c.i. amd it sat in a barn since 2007. I didn't see the need to tear the engine apart more than the valve train and I figured that would keep the build cheaper. I don't have a whole lot of extra cash to work with so it's coming along slowly.

I lost 3rd and 4th gear. So until I get enough cash to get the trans sorted out I've been doin small affordable projects. Going to replace the cat with some tubing. Cat was creating too much back pressure for the cam. She revs real quick now.

Engine actually has tbi 193 swirlport heads. Since they flow really well on the exhaust side I put 1.6 on the intake only. So i started with straight pattern cam with a little more duration on the exhaust and 1.6 on intake gives it high lift low duration which should compliment the low rpm torque thes heads make. Want to see if I could break the crappy swirlport myth by balancing the intake / exhaust flow using two rocker ratios, 1.52 and 1.6 not to make a point, but just because that's what I got and heads are expensive and if I have to I'll lightly port and gasket port match them I will.

Idk, as long as you got clearance with your heads. I have swirlports (193) castings, and I had to use plus .050 valve retainers and springs rated to .490 lift and .060 spring shims, as long as you jave clearance I think its a great low emd torque setup.

I think the 270 is a pretty big cam with more duration. If you want hp up high in the rpms the 270 will probably give you more top end with more lope at the cost of low end torque. I kinda wanted to keep some low end torque so i went with less duration and am trying to compensate with lift which should keep the power band a little lower down in the rpm range.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 awesome think ima go with 8800 I have been told by many the 981 is just a drop in spring but we’ll see any idea on that that thing runs idk what I should expect I’m hoping something to brag about or at least a good stock replacement motor is .30 over with flat tops 650 carb hei I do have a few pounds on you lol

@@Donsautomotivechannel I looked up the springs, they're spec'd at the same maximum lift as mine but rated at about 16lbs more spring pressure than mine. I bought the Summit set rated at .490 lift and I think 357lbs. Spring pressure. Says the 981-16 comps are good for 373lbs pressure. I added .060 spring shim to compensate for plus .050 valve retainers. I hear good things about those comp springs. Total lift with the Pro SBC 8800 will be .480 with 1.6 rockers and duration probably about 206-207 intake and 216-217 exhaust at .050 lift. The 1.6 ratio lift info on Summit's website was updated at some point and is wrong. To fimd new lift, divide lift by the rocker ratio to fins the actual cam lobe height, (.450 ÷ 1.5 = .300 ). Now take the actual lobe height amd multiple by the new rocker ratio( .300 x 1.6 = 480) or ( .300 × 1.52 = .456) etc.

I think whatever torque I may have lost down low by switching from the tuned port intake to a Holley Stealth Ram, the cam made up for it and then some up top. I'm putting 1.6 comp magnum roller tips on the intake side this week with some stiffer valve springs to bring the lift up to .480 but still keep the power band nice and low.

@@jeremiahwasabullfrog8854 for a street car that you’re trying to build or you still run AC have you want low torque. I have a 350 L 31 from a 2000 van that is bone stock that swapped over to quadrajet in my 58 Chevy wagon. It runs great gets 20 to 22 mpg on the highway with a 700 R because it was a overdrive car. It had 370 gears in it so from stop like the stoplight it really moves. People are always surprised. I may do another one of these and put that summit cam in there put in a 55 Chevy.

The motor in the car was a fairly fresh jasper hydraulic full roller 355 block so i was able to use the stock pusrods and lifters. I put some comp 1.52 magnum roller tip rockers in it. I have a valve spring and seal kit and +.050 valve keepers so I can go with 1.6 rockers. It has 193 tbi heads so I need the +.050 valve retainers and some .060 valve seat shims to bring the spring up higher because retainer to valve guide clearance is getting close at my current total lift of .456 A 1.6 ratio wil bring it to .480 lift.

Thanks. Building something similar for a 87 Pontiac grand prix. Thanks for the reply . Looking forward to more videos.

@@mikef7968 yeah idk what motor you got but mine is a 638 casting with factory hydraulic roller setup with the 193 tbi heads which are not the 083 heads that iroc's came with. They're actually good flowing on the exhaust side. If you have an 87 it's likely a roller motor. If it's a 305 you probably got 187 casting heads and if it's a 350 you probably got 193 heads. Gotta watch the valve guide to valve retainer clearance on those. They're good to about .450 lift. Im getting away with .456 but I'm putting in stiffer valve springs soon and raising them by using +.050 valve retainer from Summit and .060 valve seat shims for under the springs. Raises the spring and gives you an extra 1/20th inch to play with. Can safely use a .450 lift cam and 1.6 rockers for .480 lift total on tbi heads. I'm only planning on going 1.6 on the intake because the exhaust flows better than a lot of stock heads. I think the tbi heads are better than people think, they have good torque down low and need a good higher lift short duration lobed cam shaft to keep that torque down low where you want it. Barely did shit to this car, stock exhaust, supposedly shitty heads, small cam and it's a tick faster than stock already.

I'm also building a 638 block. Bought a rotating assembly from local builder. Using the aluminum vortech china heads hooker exhaust manifolds duelplane intake 750 quadrajet. Engines 30. Over with flattop pistons. 2.1/4 duels with h pipe. 3:73 gear 8.8 mustang rear.Your build is similar to mine .I found your page when looking up builds with this cam. Let you know when I get it together. Thanks for the info.

@@mikef7968 nice. Let me know how those chinese vortecs work out. Vortecs are supposed to be good for like 35-40hp out of the box. If I ever get around to it I plan on putting a decent set of heads on mine with some good headers. My exhaust is 2.5" going to 3" from the cat back. I am trying to find a 3" mid pipe to go straight back from a set of headers to make a full 3" all the way back. I feel like my heads my manifolds and my Y pipe are whats hold the car back from making really good power. I thought I had 3.73 gears, turns out it's a factory gm 9 bolt 3.70 which is supposedly better than the 10 bolt and in Australia it's basically known as a Dana model. Took me a while to find that info.