Видео

I've just been really underwhelmed with frog. It creates a lot of non-linear patterns that can be very polarized, and I don't really enjoy that gameplay. For instance, your opponent casts a discharge on it with 2 energy floating, and you've got 6 cards in hand with no other threats. Are you pitching 4 cards to save it or letting it go? What if they're tapped out but haven't played a land yet? Are you playing around them following up with another removal spell and getting to 2 for 4 you?

It really has. I don't mind revisiting every now and then, but you can definitely see where the power creep has hit hard.

I would definitely agree with that. Comes from the shadow background.

I still love the newer builds, but there was definitely something special about gurmag being an unstoppable force in the format on turn 2.

Drown is really awful in to all of the murktide and eldrazi running around right now, so it got the ax.

Way closer imo

Depends on if you build with nethergoyf in mind. Nethergoyf is more proactive than gurmag, and murktide still follows the same play pattern of playing it out with counter backup, the "protect the queen" game plan.

That's a good question.

Definitely prefer the UB decks, bowmaster is a really nice piece to have access to and I think frog is better than Thundertrap Trainer.

On a side note. V Clique was my first major card purchase back in the day. Back when they were 20 a piece. Bought a playset back in the Morningtide standard days. UB faeries were just the best

Oh man I remember when I picked up Cliques. Then got in to extended and had to bite the bullet on watery graves. Not fun times for my wallet.

For the glory of the algo

Good catch, didn't even know about the "end the turn" line.

Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. I was also a delver player in OG modern, loved beating up on some splinter twin.

I definitely think the red splash for battle rage is fine, I don't actually believe you have to go much farther than that. And if you're playing tbr, I'd keep the bauble/nethergoyf package since it helps you find your threats more consistently. But splashing for just tbr and phoenix isn't something I've tried yet, might have to give it a shot.

you can grab anything, shadow, removal spell, protection spell or if needed a battle rage. usually you only want to draw tbr once in a game… i think its not a 4 of in a ds deck, maybe 2. and nethergoyf also fits well in the shell

this tierlist is specifically for the shadow archetype and not the soulflayer archetype

You'd hate to know how the pulls have been since.

Agree, bins phoenix, card advantage, and +1/+1 trample is huge.

I'm a huge drown fan, but recently there has just been so much eldrazi that it's been a liability. Definitely looks way better when you run in to matchups like goryo's though.

Agreed. Needs a shell with more etb abilities and value pieces.

I have, but they do get access to boseiju, so I'm not as high on the artifact/enchantment hate pieces like blood moon, alpine moon, damping sphere, etc. I usually prefer break the ice so you can just take out the sol lands early and proactively.

Oh man, benchsummer used to play Varolz in abzan shadow to put your counters on lingering souls tokens. Personally I think the card isn't worth it unless you have some way to give your threat evasion. Maybe it could function a bit better in a phoenix build, but not with a bunch of vanilla creatures on the ground.

@thecntrlfreak1347 I've been experimenting with inti seneschal of the sun, to give a creature trample on attack and card selection, as well as a copy of temur battle rage. I've been using Malevolent rumble for burst card selection, as well as a couple dragons rage channeler. Pretty much trying to burn through my deck with card selection in a way that bowmaster or sheoldred arnt pinging me, as well as filling my yard for delirium + shadow, attempting to set up for turn 4 wins. I've been having a blast experimenting with the idea of DS being a bigger threat in the yard than on board. I've struggled with what the second threat option should be, I've been using kroxa because low cmc 6/6 is nice, for varolz or inti reasons, but he doesn't stick to the board well. I feel like jund shadow is very much weaker than dimir, but it has legs, without getting stuck on the 8 of necro/tarmagoyf heavy beatdown lists most people seem to run, that I feel arnt really DS lists, but goyf decks that have DS.

@thecntrlfreak1347 I've been experimenting with 4x inti seneschal of the sun + 1x temur battlerage for "evasion". As well as Malevolent rumble + inti + dragons rage channeler for card selection that goes under bowmaster+sheoldred triggers. I've been using kroxa as a 2nd varolz target, 6/6 for 2 is nice, but I havnt like how he isn't a threat on the board 99% of the time. I feel like there is legs to jund shadow, utilizing the yard, without getting stuck on the 8x goyf decks that splash DS. I just don't get enough time to experiment properly, and I don't have mtgo, so I was bouncing the idea off you.

Truly a generational talent.

Thank you, someone finally agreeing haha

Tamiyo has been excellent for me, but I wouldn't say it's absolutely necessary. But the goyf/shadow versions can definitely stall out on the ground against go-wide decks.

What's your reasoning? Harvest is a bit more consistent if you have a shadow and need a fetch land without delirium, but that's about it. Traverse isn't meant to find "any random top deck non-land card", it's meant to find very specific cards in specific situations, so it's a bit of a different reason than harvest that just kind of wants to find you anything.

If there are 3 lands in my starting hand, I can find a spell without delirium. Traverse just finds basic lands and is a victim of graveyard-hate. My experience with Abundant harvest was fine, so i'll keep it in jund shadow. I would like to see you playing a league with that card. 😀

I think mtgo shifts the meta a lot faster than people thing. Sure, it can shake up a bit here and there, but most people being able to immediately start playing a new deck, along with the vast number of challenges that occur every week, means that results start to populate much faster. You get that rise to the top way sooner, even if it doesn't necessarily stay the exact same all season.

I think the UB murktide list is the best of the ones you mentioned. Plus I believe it just won a challenge.

Good question. The reason was mostly because if they find another big thing, they can just trinisphere anyway, and they have more copies of the big things than trinispheres. So the statistically more likely draw is for them to hit a 7+ mana spell than another sphere.

I've been really off of frog lately. Just not getting games over with.

Algo gang in the houseee

I did not, just ran a league with the exact list because people were asking to see some gameplay with it. Only 1 RCQ win haha