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I both agree and disagree. First off, when I made this video... 5 years ago?! Jeesh I am old.... When I made this video I was obsessed with what makes a game good and what it takes to qualify as art. With the intervening years, I have realized that I yucked on some people's yum. Really what I was feeling was the age of the platforming mechanics. The game as a whole is fine, but not my cup of tea. Where I disagree is this: Art is about expressing a feeling and getting other people to experience that same feeling. Art is about sharing an experience to expand your understanding. When it comes down to it, I don't like Fez, but if it made you feel something, then it is art.

I just love that I still get comments on this so many years after posting it. I get that and I agree with you now. In 2017 when I posted this, I would probably have said, "The platforming mechanics are so bad that they get in the way of the puzzles." or something like that. Basically, thank you for your comment. I have learned a lot in the intervening years, and I really appreciate that people care enough about this video to engage with it. Maybe I should come back to this series...

Cool. I was describing why I bounced on the game 5 years ago. I still don't think it is great, but mostly because modern games just do all of the same stuff better. Have you played Tunic yet?

@@fozzythealbino i've heard about it and plan to play it

@@deemaske9143 It sounds like a spiritual successor in the ways that Fez succeeded, but with more modern mechanics, albeit in a drastically different genre. Either way, I appreciate your feedback. I don't really do this anymore, as I have a different career now, but it is awesome to see that something I made 5 years ago can still spark conversation.

@@fozzythealbino the only thing that i know about Tunic is that it has a knowledge based progression system, so i'm sure it will be very similar to fez on the puzzle aspect and i appreciate to talk about a game i like, and even if you had a bad point in your video, i must admit that it was great quality

​@@fozzythealbinoI've played TUNIC. It is AMAZING!

TBH, I was trained in literary criticism, and most of those lenses argue that the author is dead, or that what they were trying to do doesn't really matter. The work stands on its own. With that being said, I disagree with large parts of this analysis 4 years later

Ya. That pretty much sums it up.

Then what pray tell is art?

I did something very risky trying to define art in this video, and I think I did a poor job, but I stand by this: FEZ has too high a barrier to fun.

Ya, we played this game when it was super early in development. It is called Away, and it is freaking dope.

Thanks!

Your wish is my command. I will be doing a new vlog/gameplay reveal later today.

Far less than I should have for the video title. Really this video should have been "Why I bounced off Fez" but I have learned a lot in the 2.5 years since I put it out.

That is completely fair. As I have said in other comments, I think this video was more of a reaction to me "bouncing" off this game. I should not have tried to justify it as a deep analysis. Maybe I will revisit it in the future.

games can't be art by definition

Awesome insight. I think that Fez was just a little "old" by the time that I got to it. It has incredible depth (I am told) but I couldn't get over the platforming mechanics.

Ya man. Really what I am describing here is a "bounce." The deaths frustrated me, partially because I had played Ori and the Blind Forest immediately before it, and Ori is death perfection, and partially because it takes hours of floaty weird platforming before you get to the real game (according to other commenters.) Really, it didn't jive with me. It is unfair, as I have addressed in other comments, to say that it is a bad game (and I don't think I ever said that). Rather, I should say that this game didn't work for me. There were just too many layers between me and "fun."

@@fozzythealbino Sounds like your idea of fun is specific to your liking. Which is fine since we are all brought up with different stuff, for example I've given shooters many tries, & I just don't like them. I think the platforming is def lack luster in the control of the character but I was able to adapt & get used to his gravity/acceleration. I understand how some don't enjoy his jumps & how bs they sometimes might feel. Aside from tht, the plyer has not much else to look for fun if its endless puzzles of similar repetitive pattern which offers low reward "brain high" stimulation over time. Unless ur really into puzzles, adore the charm (I wuz brought up with Nintendo, so I instantly wuz hooked with the inspiration coming from the game) or enjoy the controls which most prob wudnt, since they werent done so intuitive I wud say, it makes sense why some like you would not fully enjoy this game. This is my new conclusion. Thx for ur perspective & video friend! You've let me learn and expand my point of view!

@@ruvimperna5532 Thank you for your comments. I think there are a lot of "gatekeepers" in video games, and trying to make someone else enjoy games the way that we want to contributes to the toxicity in games. Unfortunately, by trying to say "this is what makes this game good/bad," I have contributed to this quite a bit. I wish I had the time to re-do this video and try it again.

Absolutely, and were I to do this video again, that would be my take. For me, the core gameplay loop was drudgery. The platforming itself was very rudimentary. It was simply too much for me to enjoy. I understand that there is a world of wonder there, but it was too hard for me to get to.

Also, thank you so much for your well-thought-out comment. You rock, and there need to be more of you in this world.

@@fozzythealbino Yeah, I can agree that the platforming could have been improved. It definitely takes some getting used to to know the limits of what Gomez can reach by jumping or by falling, and even when you do get used to it, it doesn't always feel good. I wonder if maybe the reason it turned out this way was so that the perspective shifting wouldn't be trivialized without having to make each area more spacious, but I can't be sure. It still feels like the controls could be better. I ended up finding this video because it was just announced that FEZ is releasing on Nintendo Switch today, and I'm glad I did find it.

@@TheUnknownsShow Wow. Thanks for telling me how you found it too. That is solid feedback for me.

This is exactly what I was thinking when listening to the video as a whole. The game is constructed at the 32 cube level to be a relatively simple puzzle platformer for those who do not wish to go through the more ARG like elements of the game. They can pick it up, have a short, fun experience, and leave without feeling like they were bogged down and unable to progress like many PnC Adventures or masochist platformers. This is probably also why deaths were not punished as heavily; I could see a casual player getting bogged down and being unwilling to experiment and explore if death was harshly implemented. Even during the first 32 cubes, I was constantly cognizant of the world around me subtly (and sometimes not subtly) calling out for me to look closer. I feel like DES perhaps sets too lofty a standard for great games/art if they must meet all the criteria mentioned. Many pieces of art and many games would be instantly disqualified if held to this standard, or would be hypocritically defended by their fans despite the criteria laid out. The subjective nature of art critique alone means that measuring something like a piece being "timeless" is a losing proposition. Having this checklist outlook will often mean a game that does 2 or 3 things extremely well will be seen as somehow a lesser experience. Games also run into a unique pitfall compared to other mediums: gameplay must come first. If the game is not "good enough", no one will continue to play it to engage with the themes, artwork, story, etc. Great non-gameplay elements can carry a rough game experience (ie Blood Omen for me), but there needs to be enough game to facilitate the extras. As for my own issues with Fez, I do think the post 32 cube experience is an odd one. I got into ARGs and code breaking media about 3 years ago, so the experience was cool for me. Given the right group of people and time, I could see this being a real captivating experience. A third to maybe half of the remaining collectibles are hidden behind a couple of "Aha!" moments. Once that moment has passed and you have solved a couple puzzles, it becomes busywork of decoding. If I had to levy any heavy criticism against Fez, it would be that this decrypting takes too much of the back end of gameplay. The jump mechanics are rough, but only became a real issue in 2-3 rooms due to the checkpoint system.

Thanks VerdantScape!

Thank you!

Actually, this was inspired by a bunch of really cool art on Pintrest. Check out my board: pin.it/4P8AjeP P.S. There maybe a spoiler or two for future projects there ;)

I would love to man. If I get back into this, I totally will.

You are literally the only person I have had agree with me. I did two videos of this quality level, they took about a week of work, and got absolutely massacred. Fortunately I got a good job in my field, and haven't really been back to the channel. Thank you for your kind words.

This video was supposed to be phrased as a "Why I bounced off FEZ." Kind of video, but I definetly lost focus on that as I made it. These videos take a very long time to make, and I will probably not make any more while I have my current job. (I work 50-60 hours a week right now.) But if I do come back, I will make sure to clearly state what the video hopes to say. Thank you for your feedback and your kind words.

I absolutely am missing the point. I have had that feedback a lot, and I kinda wish I had the time to do a follow up video on this. My only point that I was trying to make, ultimately, was that I couldn't convince myself to keep playing it, and that that bugged me. I definitely should have shifted the tone of this video from more of a technical breakdown to more of a "This is why I couldn't get into the game." Like I said. I think it is a good game, but something kept me from feeling like it was a great game, and maybe that all comes down more to taste and patience. Both of which I have little of ;)

@@fozzythealbino I have the same thing with the comic Sandman. Everyone raves abt it, and I do love Neil Gaimans work, but could never finish any Sandman stories :-D

@@thormodsen Ya man. Just don't make a full video about it, then post it on the Sandman subreddit, without clarifying that first. ;)

You are absolutely right. And that is the problem that I had with this game. I got about 10 hours in, and never felt the pull of the game. That is what I was trying to say, but it really did not come through well. Thank you for your comment!

@@fozzythealbino please at least try to continue at least until you'll got to the first ending

@@lucatoccaceli6205 I may. This game just sucked the joy out of playing. I made this video to try to explain why, but TBH I missed the mark trying to say whether it was a "good" game.

@@fozzythealbino ok sorry

@@lucatoccaceli6205 Hey, no reason to be sorry. I want to get better at this. I titled the video wrong and took the wrong angle on it. Next time I will do it better. Thank you for your feedback.

You know, in the months since I made this video, I have talked more with people who have finished the game, and that is kind of the consensus, that this game does a really deep style of exploration. In my opinion, a game, in this era, cannot expect players to dig for 10+ hours before they get to the good part. And I think that if I were to redo this video I would frame the whole thing around that. I think that it was an incredible game in its time, but that has not held up. Clearly there are a lot of people that disagree with me, but I think that it is that accessibility that separates this game from immortal classics like Super Mario Bros. 3, Shadow of the Colossus, or even Pac-Man. It is really that "several months" later part that I take issue to. So, I definitely did not do this game complete justice, but I still stand completely by my assessment, that it is undoubtedly a good game, but not a great game. Thanks for your comment. It makes me feel good that people are still finding this content.

Thanks a ton man!

THANKS!

I have no idea what you are talking about.;)

Drop Everything Games. When i firat watched it the video was extended with like 15 minutes of nothing. For some reason its fine now. Forget what i said. lol.

;) Thanks for catching that for me, I fixed it.

Thanks so much Zaydee!

Ok your truth. What is the most meaningful game you've played. Your dare. Play You Left Me until you get the true ending. (its hard to understand at first but very meaningful in the end. You have to try everything to figure it out.)

Also the audio balance is really good.

Thanks man!

In general I think I am in favor, but I haven't played dear Ester Specifically. On of the next games that I am going to play on this channel is "What Remains of Edith Finch" which is a walking simulatoresqe game, but it does a lot of additional things with the gameplay that makes it more immersive. I would say that even in a walking simulator, there is player interactivity, and as long as the games uses that interaction to build the narrative, it will lend its self to being artistic. One game that nails this concept of interaction perfectly is Night in the Woods, and in that game all of the systems build out the feeling of the narrative, and help us connect with the characters... But, I am getting ahead of myself. That is next weeks video ;)

I find walking simulators a seriously degrading label. Popular action shooters / RPG's are just as much walking simulators as exploration/puzzle games. In the former you kill along the way, in the latter you solve puzzles while walking. And none of them are about walking.

Thanks man!

The devs said that they didn't get a ton of levels in it, But I think that they could really make something out of it with some work.

Oh, ya, and they did make all of the assets. Which is pretty awesome.

That's awesome, they are really good looking assets

Lol thanks

ya, I got three of them total in this run. but the run was spread over like 3 years... so... ya.

Worst Ever! We don't deserve that in April.