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I think the strength of this show is the development of the characters through their experiences so that they become what we know them as by the end. Regarding Gandalf, he is learning that every time he uses his power, he hurts something, so the default choice is to want to control it, which is the path the Dark Wizard chose, but I think he will learn that his role isn’t to use his innate power, but rather to support the strength of others, to support his friends instead of just doing it for them with his power, which would be why he rarely chooses to use his magic over time. Seizing power and using it is the illustration of evil in this story, and is the path for every villain’s downfall, while supporting others through friendship and love is the light that pushes back the darkness. Establishing the hobbits and how they became what they are, with their quiet strength, humility and resistance to the desire for power because all they really want is a home to live and be happy with their loved ones in, is (I think) one of the most important storylines to develop because it becomes the foundation for how Sauron collapses. Seeing Sauron’s development as this overwhelmingly unstoppable force alongside the quiet almost completely hidden light inside the hobbits is what I love about the show.

Do you not think that Tom's false dichotomy is an intentionally false dichotomy? Like, realizing that it's the false dichotomy IS the test. I haven't rewatched yet, but I think Tom is pretty deliberately not explicitly telling Gandalf that he needs to seek the staff in the trees, etc - he's just leaving that as the assumption that would be made by someone who has not learned the lesson. Almost like Aes Sedai rules. I'm also curious whether it's possible to rectify this mentor Tom with later Tom by just thinking of Tom as changing over time - or even maybe Tom as unchanging, but reacting to different situations. That is, what if Fellowship Tom does very little to intervene, precisely because he has already guided at least one Istar onto the right path? He's like, "Hey dol derry dol, Old Tom's retired / I taught Gandalf the lessons he needs, in your affairs I'm no longer mired?" (To be sung to the tune of Rufus Wainwright's gorgeous soundtrack contribution.) And I also wonder if we're overselling the differences anyway. Is show-Tom really actually intervening all that much? And in Fellowship, can't the encounter with ancient unbothered goodness be read as transformative in itself, in a way that isn't too far off from explicit advice and mentorship?

Well, I was going to go to sleep but then I saw this.....

Don't believe the propaganda! The more Professor Fireballs convinces you that I am Sauron, the more obvious it is that HE is Sauron, the Father of Lies!

Release the Kraken!

Nice thumbnail AP (😁)

I still don't understand Tavores connection to the Talons. Is she an actual Talon operative or what? In HoC it goes into it a bit, someone mentions that the Talons found support in the nobility. I'm on my first reread so maybe it will be more clear this time.

I totally agree with the reviewers in just about everything they say :-) But Bombadil being characterised as a fat English middle aged farmer with a fake Somerset accent is utterly ridiculous. Here is Tolkein’ mythos character, almost more spirit than even the elves; apart from any other living being, and you make him a fake human caricature of a farmer? I was so disappointed when Jackson left him out of the films but I understood why: what I don’t get, with all the power of cgi these day, that all they could come up with is this ridiculous nonsensical portrayal.

Always enjoy the two of you

The image of Celebrimbor tied to a pole and shot with arrows is reminiscent of how the Danes of the Great Heathen army murdered the king of East Anglia

Logical, level-headed critique and analysis and discussion that's focused on the technical merits of the show instead of the political drama? How refreshing! Keep up the awesome content, good sirs 👏👏👏

I wish you'd pushed further past your initial reaction against the LOTR references and gotten into what thematic work they were doing. Rings and Realms also disliked some of this at first, but when they sat with it for a while they found some interesting interpretive ideas. For instance, the long shot on Bombadil's face isn't just a "see what we did there, recognize this guy?" - it's intentionally an uncomfortable pause that reflects how the encounter with a being that pre-exists and floats above worldly evil is itself a kind of pause in the action of the plot, a pause that is itself necessary in order to reflect and reevaluate and find your way. And likewise, they found value in how this adaptation of Tom with the predatory tree was much more a matter of respectfully calming down someone grumpy (like a touchy horse who's been approached clumsily), rather than disciplining a corrupted presence as their original reading of LOTR had felt; indeed, they ultimately appreciated it as a reframing of that book scene, showing them an angle on it that they'd never noticed before. Anyway, I'm only expressing this here because I am usually so appreciative of your insights and perspectives on these kinds of adaptations (I particularly enjoyed your WoT S2 analysis), and I'm sure we've missed out on some cool ideas you could've had if you'd pushed past the your initial feeling of cheap pandering (which, again, is legit! I felt that way a bit too, at first!). Glad to hear that you liked 205 more, and I hope you're enjoying 206 and looking forward to sharing your thoughts about it with us!

Thank AP and Philip for this discussion. I don't like the adaptation, I only enjoy some visuals. And I enjoy watching you two talk about it.

Yeah, while the “Barrow Wraiths” in this episode clearly is referring to the Barrow Wraiths in “The Fellowship” and Professor Chase is quite right that those were remnants of the Divided Succesor Nations of Arnor in the Third Age affected by the Witch King, there were also tombs and barrows of those Men & Elves who perished traveling from the East to the West in the First Age. Also, some mentioned to me that the Elvish name of area the map literally means “Borrows of the Dead”, so Elrond & Galadriel’s team should have suspected it!😅

The way i took the Ent's question was about cutting down sentient trees, but maybe I'm trying to draw distinctions where none was intended to exist.

I highly enjoyed the Entwife section, but remain indifferent to Tom Bombadil. I'm just ready for The Stranger to finally figure his stuff out. We're almost halfway through the season. As my grandma used to say, "Time's a-wastin."

Another interesting one, and I always earn something new from them. I loved AP's notion of not correcting people who only knew words from reading! My parents took me to a non English speaking country when I was young and I grew up reading avidly but having no one to discuss the things I read with. I think I was 19 when I found out the name 'Chloe' was not pronounced 'Shloe' and it was very embarrassing at the time.

A.P is there an equivalent in writing for a "Jump Cut?" A character rapidly covering time or events in a short span of Chapters. Or say move around the map and be at different places one chapter after another because the author does not transition the change?

I just finished this book tonight and I agree with your review. I found the story both beautiful and tragic. I was loving the growth in the brother’s relationship so when that was rendered by the curse, I truly felt the tragedy of it. I’m behind on the read along but plan to catch your discussions after each read. Thanks for your thoughts.

I've just started with the season and by midway through I discovered something that I only sensed in the first episode - because it was veiled by a beard. But did no one else notice that Círdan looks like none other than the Critical Dragon himself? Which is ironic because I only noticed it when he shaved which AP has not in a while.. ;-) Additionally I think the new season is a blast. They dare to tread their own paths. And the purists will always yowl. But I think they're staying truthful to Tolkien. They find solutions to shape a compelling narrative for a tight series from the vastness that is the Second Age. And apart from that it is a marvel to behold: The pictures are stunning. I wish more people were just more open to the sheer fun of it.

Great discussion. I really enjoyed it. I liked the episode much more than you Tom Bombadill above all, but I appreciate your analyses. About the messangers, I think the elves found only the horses with Lindon colors. They needed to find the cilinder to be sure who rided the horses. But I can be wrong, or misunderstood what you were saiyng. Thank you

Perhaps you or the Nemesis© can clarify something for me, the last time I read the books was before you were born, is the halfling/stranger storyline concurrent with the ring/numenor storyline or is it before as the other stories seem to be in the same timeframe but the stranger's story seems unconnected so far?

Are you hoping for Blue Wizards because they cast better fireballs? 😂

I'm enjoying these chats. I am the most peripheral "consumer" of ROP, so I won't comment on that. One thing I'd urge on AP is that criticism is of its nature subjective; you don't have to apologise for that. Criticism is part of the humanities, which by definition are about human experience and therefore subjective. There can however be agreed-on criteria, terminology, "ways to read" and so on, and good criticism will explain itself in such terms. (Gore Vidal, Clive James and Orwell are the gold standard for me). Sorry to be pompous. OK one niggle: the writers clearly don't know the Withywindle is a river (the same mistake is in the publicity). I'm also fairly sure they don't know what downs are; we see a barrow, but not downs.

Another great discussion. I like how you guys get into how and why certain storylines work and don’t work with the writing. I’m still enjoying the show. I’m definitely more forgiving when it comes to book to screen adaptation. As long as the show or movie itself is entertaining, they don’t have to be exactly like the book. Keep up the good work guys. Looking forward to the next one.

Overall I enjoy the show very much. I didn’t mind what they did with Bombadil, and was happy to see them try. Same with the Entwife, which I liked a lot. They are making choices and taking risks, and I can respect it. However, ep4 did feel disjointed. When I finished that episode, my first impression was that it felt like several things put together just to get it on-screen and it felt out of place from the rest of the season. Still a very good show for me though. Enjoying the discussion between you.

Its interesting her your perspectives. As someone who has only read The Hobbit and watched the films (and now this series) I didn't have the same complaints you both did about retreading old ground. I had heard so much about Tom over the years I loved the scenes with him in it, and the mysterious magical things happening around him. In fact, I loved a lot of the mysterious elements to this episode (magic mysterious that is). The Ents, the strange quicksand monster, the barrow wights. A lot of this season has been pretty quick so a little bit of a slower episode where we get to explore and experience a few more things was much appreciated for both myself and my partner. I do have lots of issues with the Harfoot story. I love Nori and Poppi and I think they are doing their best, but its so hard for them to not just feel like a distraction from the main story, now more than ever with them being away from The Stranger. I just can't see how they make sense within the wider story. Hobbits were important in Tolkeins stories because they grounded the story with a more relatable character, one more pure of heart and incorruptible. If they are meant to be here to prevent The Stranger from being corrupted, then why aren't we seeing more internal conflict with him when they are not around? Instead he is acting just about the same as always. And when The Stranger does meet up with the greater world, how will they still be useful for that cause?

Thank Eru Ilúvatar we enjoyed episode five more than this one! That discussion will be out this Thursday on my channel.

I think you perhaps need to rename this video AP...

I remwmber thinking that you were finally getting your blue wizards but that it probably wasn't going the way you hoped. Really hoping the dark wizard isn't Saruman, but he definitely has the look down.

How very Erickson to drop you in the middle of something without knowing what's going on .

Late to the conversation, which is my trademark move for comments on RUclips. I write, and have books on sale, so as I writer I don't review books I didn't enjoy. My reviews therefore are about the books I enjoyed reading.

still waiting on the crippled god 😢

About the modern take on Gruntle's motivation because of Stonny, that happened to me in real life. Granted I graduated from college in 1990, so I would be part of the past era you speak of, but a female friend of the dorm, whom none of us dated, had that happen to her. There were about 20 of us combing the campus looking for this guy and it was very good in hindsight that the police found him first because it would not have turned out well for him and most likely us for what we probably would have done. I don't see how that would not be a motivation in this day and age. I didn't question that scene at all.

I am at chapter 5 and I feel very very lost

The Stranger is clearly going to be Gandalf :-) the scriptwriters have had the Stranger echo Gandalf’s phrase in the Mines of Moria that this is the way because the air smells a bit better in this direction. You can’t drop a heavier clue than have the Stranger quote Gandalf! Aside from that Saruman is an utterly different character to the Gandalf/Stranger character. On another subject; the treatment of angelic/spirit beings….so many people think that faced with them, people would re-act with awe and fear: it’s actually untrue. People who have seen ‘angels’ (to use a word) don’t re-act that way at all….I grant you that Tolkeins Catholic background might have influenced him; but in truth there is no awe, no fear, only a feeling of wonder and grace. From a literary point of view it obviously makes sense to create this fictitious scariness but in reality, it’s the opposite :-)

Great to have you back, Doc AP! I while I do share your concerns for the “Dark Wizard” identity on a canonically basis, I would also be lying if I did feel greatly amused when I recognized him as Ciarán Hinds (“Rome”’s Julius Ceasar, also was pleased to see “Posca”/Nicholas Woodeson’s cameo as the old man in the Episode 1 prologue!) doing his best Christopher Lee-impression! 🤩 That said, I am definitely on Team “Hope he is a Blue Wizard”! Very glad to see Sauron as Annatar, I was very afraid we would not get it with the pacing of season 1 and the forging of the three elven rings. In my mind it is a bit backwards, as Celebrimbor being tricked by his pride to aid Annatar in creating the rings to the Dwarfs/Men (ring-giving to allies/vassals being a prominent feature in many of Sagas & Myth Tolkien was inspired by) and then made the Elvish rings as a responsive defense once Sauron showed his true colours, as in novels, made more sense to me, but still glad to see it! The Dwarf Scenes continues to be my favorites, though I am genuinely interested in the exploration of Rhun! Cheers!

Will watch your videos after watching the actual episodes. I have to say after being embarrassed by some of the stuff surrounding RoP Season 1 and the fantasy fandom in general, I remember very little from the actual plot of Season 1 after a while. In hindsight it was beautifully made but kind of bland.

Thanks again for another great discussion. I'm really enjoying these deep dives into each episode. After the LOTR movies, I just wanted more. That's why I watched shows like Shannara Chronicles, Wheel Of Time, and other fantasy shows and movies that were along the same lines. Now I can enjoy more Middle Earth on TV. I already watched episode 3. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that episode. ⚔️ I'm currently reading The Fall of Numenor. I'd be interested on hearing your takes on that book and anything they may have used for the show.

As long as they don't cover the blue wizards, I won't watch it, but I guess (being a long time subscriber) I have a way of finding out if that is the case :P until it happens or not, at least I have some interesting discussions

This show spends a lot of time explaining things that are already explained, or else don't need to be. "Gandalf" is a perfectly logical name when given by men of the North, since they believe (erroneously) that the wizards are elves and "Gandalf" carries a staff or wand; "elf of the wand" being the meaning of the name in Voluspa. It's a detail, not a plot point. Lace with dialogue lifted out of context and thereby stripped of weight and significance: [STRANGER] From shadow you came. To shadow I bid you return! Nice mythology (not), shame about the story. Is there a conspiracy among fantasy writers to pass off such feeble stuff as good? And... can you imagine what Tolkien would have made of the Jesus imagery? Or (from Episode 4) Adar's "a star shines upon the hour of our meeting", a saying he himself was fond of and quoted in interviews? Truly, corruption is on display, perhaps not in the way intended.

I don't hate this season as much as S1, but that doesn't say much.

If I'm Sauron, that leaves a vacancy for the position of Morgoth. I hear Morgoth had massive fireballs!

2 minutes in and I'm realizing this spoilers beyond HoC. I have no idea what I just heard, or what it means but I gather i shouldn't know that yet and thus I'll be back to try this video again in a few months

Mallick Rel... A GREAT EMPEROR... CANT BE A GOOD MAN.

One of my favourite writers of fantasy.

Love this series of videos. Thank you both for doing them!

I just finished this book for the first time. I actually started crying when Duiker and the chain of dogs see the gates of Aren. You feel like you've been on this hopeless journey with them, and they finally see a sight they believed impossible.

Winston Churchill did something similar re. WWII. Funny, no mention of a Holocaust