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Somebody has to set this kind of things and scratch this topics with honesty. Great video, great advice from the future experience. 🙌🏼

Simon, do you believe this is an issue with all the PaaS/BaaS? Or is it just Vercel & Supabase? I’ve had my fair share of headaches with AWS as well - especially EKS. Running VMs or serverless - never had an issue. But EKS kept me awake at night multiple times. I’ve issues with CNI, SGs, Roles and everything you can think of that composes AWS ecosystem. Aurora serverless, multi-region replication of ECR, Amazon MQ. You name it. Anything I used that is Amazon specific, I’ve had issues. Plus, there are open source alternatives to Supabase, such as Parse.

Coolify....Just Coolify.

It doesn't matter the tool you use. You can have high bills in aws easily.

Aws doesn't protect you from ddos too.

I mean, I'm using Supabase, and it works well so far, but I'm definitely hosting my websites on Cloudflare. Tools like Vercel, Heroku, or Netify are made for simple projects, scripts that don't involve money IMO. Using those for SaaS projects, which are most likely to be complex, isn't a good decision

My thoughts entirely. I had a free account on Planetscale, and they suddenly changed their mind and removed the free tier. So, I removed the Planetscale link and replaced it with the AWS MySQL link. Now, I don't want to imagine what would happen if Vercel or SupaBase started crashing for no reason. As I always said, do not rely live apps on services like this. If they'll fail you'll faiI. Not like AWS or another cloud will not fail but it's really not that often. Also, you always have to have a fail-safe instance ready to go up and a disaster recovery plan in place. Just in case.

Hi Simon. I totally agree, i don't ever see myself using vercel or other similar services for when i build larger projects with many users. Do you have any resources of tutorials you would recommend for us to get started on learning how to use aws or other similar services?

How about Firebase. It’s basically Google Cloud simplified . Does it have these issues?

Finally, some said it, I was telling this to my clients, but no one listen.

Maybe Supabase just doesn't like you because you keep calling them Superbase

There is no excuse for not having a spending limit of any of the cloud platforms. Yes I understand it may be delayed, but $1-2k bill is not $100k bill.

Would you be up for part 2 and dive into your pulumi setup?

To be honset: you can and one time probably will make the same experience with AWS. Or bare bone or or or. Nothing will ever run smoothly. It's nonsense to generalise this.

You coule even use coolify on aws and have your self hosted vercel

Computes, cdns, etc are all really cheap from these cloud providers. The only reason why you’d go for something like vercel is that if you cant spend a day learning to deploy to aws, gcp, azure, etc. Database though is different. I find supabase to be very cost efficient if you’re just starting out

Anyone who has experience with Xano? They seem to be like a decent combination of Supabase and Buildship.

What about SiteGround? They use Google Cloud servers.

What about self hosting supabase ?

Simon this template is "private"?

I would even go so far and say you made just another mistake again by moving to AWS, in my opinion I would in your case just rent a VPS for a fixed 50$ per month and I bet it would be enaugh for you.

The JavaScript Ecosystem has still no Jesus figure like Matt Mullenweg who gives really away everyting for free and doesn't force anyone to use his paid services. JavaScript needs someone like him who is fine with a few millions dollars less but have everything really open to the community.

What do you mean by Not suitable for children 😅😅

Have you tried coolify

Just for clarification, you tell us to go towards EC2, ECS, RDS, or you would still use the serverless from AWS (Lambdas, Dynamo,..) ?

why not just use a $10 vps with sqlite in journaling mode. with 4 cores and eg 10ms for one req, you can handle up to 400 req/sec..

You attacked two cults in one video. Respect

tinykiwi is such a good brand name, how did you get it?, what's your though process?, i really love the name!

I tried learn these stuff, and went back to react vite, and for backend I am using python flask and postgre. no more bsing in this industry.

also i'm a big advocate for using your own backend. instead of using fullstack nextjs what is your thought on this simon? thanks for the video!!!

1:52 “All the infrastructure has been conveniently abstracted away from you so when something doesn’t work beyond the basic UI, there’s nothing you can do about it” The same thing could be said about No-Code solutions as well. If you want to trade convenience you’ll have to sacrifice control

What about Firebase? Or would that not count considering it is using google cloud under the hood?

I think for a first time founder and a single developer, these platforms are great. In aws you have to figure a lot of stuff out. If you are a single person building an mvp you will forever be stuck in making the app rather than launching it.

I will definitely check them out! Recently had a really bad experience with that hype "shadcn/ui" library. It turned out it's a BIG LIE! They say you can copy those components to your project and then customize the way you want, it's a bullshit. It's just a crappy wrapper on top of radix, you can't really customize it, the only thing you can do is to restyle it using tailwind, that's it, but why? radix itself has theming capabilities. And in general the components are extremely limited and dummy...

I had a similar issue with auth0 when they registered multiple thousands of users to our dashboard and then upgraded our plan themselves. When we switched to Clerk (which was not that easy) nothing like that happened, however we had same domain names and urls!

Supabase handles realtime subscriptions. How’d you handle it on your own? What kind of solution would you build?

So, how much did you spend for hiring those system admin, database admiin, network admin and technical team to maintain your infrastructure? Who's to call when the incident happens again?

Not that I support their billing vision/strategy, but the issue of Vercel's customer that got DDOS'd was properly acted on by Vercel, and in reasonable time I find. There are risks with any type of technology choice. It is up to you, as the engineer, to ensure you are tolerant to that amount of risk. When your application scales, you should invest in transitioning into providers/technologies that would offer better control for your liking. If you don't, and the "risk" ultimately materializes, then you would not be within your rights to blame and push other devs away from said services/technologies that are proven to be GREAT for smaller teams and smaller scale projects. Just my two cents. I love your other content regardless of my sentiment to this video. Cheers!

I tried to self host my Supabase recently. It's so buggy, and a lot of the features got removed. It Is not really open-sourced after all :-)

Hetzner+coolify?

Usually I like your videos, but this one is really bad. You omitted important facts like Vercel's new features, forgiven bills, Supabase being open source. I've been using Vercel since it was Zeit with product Now and the amount of things it gives me is insane. I can focus on more important things rather than trying to replicate preview branch with each pull request or having comments directly in that preview to catch bugs early - even designer or copywriter can do it.

how about coolify? the open source version of vercel?

Vercel released DDOS mitigation for all plans, in March, 3 months before you published this video, but you didn’t mention this feature when referencing the tweet at 4:00, which was published in February, before the feature was available. It seems unreasonable to criticise Vercel for not having a feature without also mentioning that the feature has now been available for 3 months. If you were specifically criticising Vercel for not having the feature earlier, then fair enough, but that’s not how you presented it.

glad I came across this as I'm starting out on my own startup journey and have been evaluating Vercel & Netlify.

An emotional stance. It's funny how AWS services also have their downsides. Can you imagine being charged for a status code of 4xx?

@supabase

I suggest you to host supabase containers in your server to control it instead of relying on their cloud services

I use Cooolify, ya'll are struggling fr

I disagree about disconsidering supabase like that... It's not just Saas, it's opensource, self hosting it on cost effective providers like contabo or webdock is still worth it as long as managing the server yourself is not a problem.

I would say this and keep saying this again: Taking your time to learn tiny bit how AWS, GCP etc work (even via thin layer of abstraction like Terraform) basically means you're paying your infra cost upfront. And everyone knows it's cheapest to pay things upfront. It's not rocket science guys, the "AWS is Hard" is, while partially true, are exagerrated. If you can understood complex CSS you can understood AWS