Видео

Well... these are just the walls of the hall we train in to be honest. we sometimes hang Messers in the slots between the planks by the nail, but it only really works if you have a ring or nail and it is not the most secure way to put things as soon as you are not calmly sitting next to it. The white wall in the other videos is what I use to organize my personal swords. That is a system normally used in shops that is very versatile and sturdy, but also unfortunately pricey. I got mine used, which made is affordable. What I have also experimented with in the past is wall magnets, like these here: www.amazon.com/TOP-MAGNETS-Magnets-Neodymium-Countersunk/dp/B0CXXW6XKH If you use two even my heavier swords showed no sign of sliding anywhere. As for the swords, our old Gottfrieds look older than what was sold in the last years because they are from 2016. We got them right when LE was starting to appear on the scene :) - Peter

I actually have that too. I wanted to make a comparison between the two versions but never quite got to it. Unless they have changed it, it is quite a different beast from the steel version. Overall much lighter and nimble feeling and it does not have the nails protruding from the guard. Still a fun sword though of course :) - Peter

Personally, I like both for what they are. As the pommel area can catch a surprising amount of cuts on a Messer, having a pommel can be a nice thing sometimes, but then again you have more rust to worry about. ;) The grip length only gets shortened with solid pommels, and only on Gottfried and Günther models. From talking to the guys, that is partly to keep the balance as intended, and partly for aesthetic reasons. The hollow pommel will always retain the original grip length. Regarding the techniques, I would say it can make things harder, but that is not because short grips are bad. Rather I would frame it so that the very long grips we tend to have in training Messers for HEMA are a bit like training wheels. You can absolutely make it work with shorter grips, and even if the technique does not work perfectly, it will sufficiently disrupt your opponents structure. overly bulky gloves, like clam-shells, are actually a much bigger problem here. - Peter

Many thanks for your insights 🙏

It is a good showcase for a thick edge training sword that is not just a "blunt" of beefed up thin edge trainer. The tree blades have different purposes and thus different designs. They are not interchangeable.

As an addition, for those outside of Europe, particularly in the USA, the EZsheath could be an interesting alternative to larger universal sheaths. While I was developing my sheath, I came across this project, and the creator has many brilliant ideas in this and other products :). It's definitely worth checking out if you are located closer to the US!

QED, yes.

As long as it is "just" a strap at the back of the head, it should work just fine. It will feel different, because you have the protector against your head and not the strap, but it should fit just fine. - Peter

Yes, the standard handle is a really comfortable shape now. - Peter

Hey, thank you for the kind words. It was a privilege having you in our hall and a pleasure fencing you. I am already looking forward to the next time getting humbled by you in longsword. - Peter

It is one of my favorites :) - Peter

Hey, glad you like yours. After handling both the most recent thick and thin versions I would agree that unless you want a near-sharp experience, with everything that brings with it, the thick blunt is the best way to go. It just is more forgiving when it comes to edge maintenance but still handles great. Regarding the grip, did you get a short grip version by chance? I know that that is an option. - Peter

@@die.freifechter I don’t know…. Is there an easy way to send you a picture?

Easiest way to do so would probably be via FB or Insta, referencing this conversation :) - Peter

Stop being a bigot.

For everyone who wonders where we got the flag: camarell.de/product/historical-arts-modern-views-pride-flag/

Glad we could help. That is exactly why we make these videos :) - Peter

Huh, I did not actually think about a drill being a solution here. Not a bad idea :) I do not have any experience with the Cobra overlay, but I have seen people use them that seemed very happy with them. They are a bit hard to get here, so I have not had a go myself. I would imagine the heat retention being a problem there too, but maybe less so because it sits completely on top of your mask? Hard to say without trying it. The MacArmour Joachim Meyer rapier definitely is a very nice looking trainer. I have looked at that one more than once myself :) But just like you, I do not really do Meyer enough to do it justice. So far the only Meyer in my life is my old Albion. - Peter

The Wukusi definitely looks nice, but personally I would probably opt for the Mac-Armour solution, because of the flexibility you mentioned. Sooner or later every mask gets to a point where you will want to switch it out, and with the modular Mac-Armour approach, that is not a problem. That being said... the Wukusi sure looks very cool :) - Peter

i do a little bit. have had mine since november 2023. I'd like to have a slightly heavier pommel but I don't know where to get it

Hm, I checked back with Ulrik and Jacqueline and neither of us feels it is particularly front heavy. I would not call it a light sword necessarily, but that mostly has to do with is not exactly being a small sword. The POB is 6cm from the cup. - Peter

@@danielnunez7424 I saw one at Castile armory, but it was expensive.

@@TimRHillard thank you, i’ll check it out

Frankly, every Messer I had that has a long handle has suffered. I know the pain :) My Gottfried also had its grip replaced, simply because one of the pins got loose after a while. I am thinking about doing the same on my Kleinkriegsmesser. It is a very big target. On the other hand it can also protect you sometimes. Messer tournaments in Germany would sure be nice. I know several people are musing a German Messer event at the moment, a tournament could be part of that. But it takes a lot of time to organize all that. - Peter

@@die.freifechter Dann wird gespannt gewartet! Thanks for making so many interesting videos and reviews.

Hier auch :D Thank you for watching! - Peter

For trying different things and also just for starting out of course. The guard is... some kind of metal. That is about as knowledgeable as I am on that topic. :) A full review will come out in time, but for a first impression, we are really quite pleased with them for the price. The blade in particular has a far more complex geometry to it (Thicker base, more taper) than I would have thought it would. - Peter

Hey there, Peter summoned me to answer this. :) So, regarding your questions, a well-made knucklebow wouldn't really affect your ability to switch grip that much (depending on the glove you're wearing). However, I'm not a big fan of knucklebows at Messers per se, because they suggest the illusion of a protected hand, while in fact the actual protection is not *that* much bigger. Yes, it helps against a rogue handsnipe, but it doesn't really protect against thrusts to your hand - so even when using a knucklebow you should be able to keep your hands out of harms way without and not rely too much on it. I have a pretty long hollow brass-pommel on of of my older Messers by LE (proto-Gottfried) and it has gotten quite a beating over time - it is a bit deformed, but there hasn't been any significant damage to it - so far. The Karl in your specification is an excellent choice - you'd like to keep in mind it is a bit stiffer in the thrust, though, compared to a Gottfried. That being said, all of the three more prominent blade styles LE has in offer have their own characteristics and upsides, in the end it all comes down to personal preference. I own one of each, and I like to fence with all of them. Cheers, Ulrik

Quick addition - my brain somehow skipped the sharp part right in the beginning: a knucklebow shouldn't affect handling a sharp too much, also for cutting I have the most experience with the Gottfried blade-shape, and it performs well. :) Cheers, Ulrik again

@@die.freifechter Thank you Ulrik, and a big thanks to Peter for summoning you. :) Your well-formed advice is really helpful. At this point, I'm thinking of two options... A sharp Gunther with a walnut grip, CC2 pommel and a knucklebow (the knucklebow will be there for the aesthetics of it; as it will be the Landsknecht knotwork and simple totentanz pattern on a scabbard). So this is the go hard or go home option for a test-cutter, that's why I want all these aesthetic elements. And I am thinking of a Karl with a walnut grip and a hollow CC1 pommel as a trainer (no knucklebow as not to inconvenience the use of gloves; the full length grip retained by the hollow CC1 pommel will also help). So this is the bling-ed up version of a trainer. And the idea behind this option is for me to like looking at it, so I would just pick it up and do basic drills with it (while still working during sparing with the occasional training partner). And in winter months, when it's too ugly and cold to take my Bolognese side-swords to the garden, it can work as an indoor training option (funny how short weapons designed to be used indoors also make for good indoor training options 😏). [there's the hidden third option of going for both, but I shouldn't talk about it 🤫, my wallet is giving me a judgemental look 😑]

@@die.freifechter No problem... I think I want now for the Karl to have a blunt blade (I'll need to see how the new sharp blade looks; I understood there has been a revision). Getting another LE scary sharp blade is fine, but I should start learning some messer techniques as well. 🤔

Well, one the one hand I am glad it is not just me, on the other hand it is a bit of a shame it is not just me. Still, as you say, otherwise it is a good sword, especially for the beginners, as it is on the lighter side, maneuverable and can be found for a good price usually. - Peter

that is a great video!

I was not aware of this video, or if I was at one point, I forgot :). I like it, it is a very nice technical demonstration of techniques. It is idealized of course, thinks looks different in free play when your partner tries to constantly foil your plans, at least for me, but that is not what they try to. And even under ideal circumstances, making things look this smooth is no easy feat. I know I need more takes than I would like to admit for my part of the Glasgow videos at times. Regarding the names... they can be helpful to identify certain types of Messers, or swords in general, but I try not to be too strict. More often than not swords in their time were just called "sword". The names were not used as strictly as we would sometimes like today, so I try to use them broadly, like very rough categories. I think if you want to try and strictly categorize Messers, it is probably best to use things like the Elmslie typology, because that is what typologies are made for. - Peter

@@die.freifechter On the video... I'm so happy to have (re)introduced it to you then. It's the back and forward that I like. Blond guy wins by doing that, then blond guy does the same bit and is parried and countered by bearded guy who now is the winner, same chain of events but the blond guy parries the counter and wins, and so on. I like the theatrics, but it's also quite instructive as an approach. And since I can see for a change (some free plays are too fast, especially when you don't grasp the technique 😅), I love the aggressivity of the defence (i.e. when you parry, you do so in a way to place the point in the direction of your opponent, preferably his face; now this is obvious, but it's still nice to see it). This video ruined all sword fighting in movies for me (except Aragon in LOTR and The Princess Bride, cuz come on) since now I know we can have it better. If you haven't already, check part two (30 seconds in and 3m30s, in particular) for treatises approved, messer shenanigans. 😄 On names... it's more that I'm comfortable with the names of swords in general, and their classification on how they are used rather than shape (which typologies concentrate on). But when it comes to messers, I just called them messers, without thinking that they had their own particular place in the grand scheme of things (e.g. the pointy Rugger favouring the jab).

There definitely was a place for an impressively big knife in many cultures. A Khanjal/Qama is definitely we want to get as well. So many beautiful examples of them. _ Peter

As a rule of thumb, I would indeed say that a training weapon should be as close as possible to the real thing. But, and that is a big “but” here, this “realness” needs to be balanced against safety. Staying with the Rugger from the video, simply rounding the tip a little and leaving it blunt would not have made for a very good training weapon because of the restraint it would require while using it in training. Like blunting an axe and calling that safe. That is why the fencing version looks the way it does. It is easier with other weapons where the trainers can pretty much feel 1:1 with originals and still be safe. Later light infantry sabres being an easy example. And I agree that finding the right trainer for you can be quite the journey (either rewarding of frustrating, depending on the path you take). Again, it is easier with later military swords, because then you often had regulations that give you an indication how the sword should be, and then you can adapt to that. We generally tell our newcomers that, as hard as it may be, a sword should be the last thing you buy. Safety gear is more important and if you wait with buying a sword until you have that, you have probably borrowed a good number of swords from your peers or teachers, and thus have a much better idea of what you actually want, minimizing the risk of having to buy twice. - Peter

@@die.freifechter I like the last advice. Since I went from collecting antiques and sharps to wanting to study HEMA, I guess this does not apply to me. Still like it as a general advice, though.

Test-cutting is definitely on the menu. There are one or two things I want to try with this one before it gets sharpened, Glasgow play 11 for one, but seeing how it will cut compared to other sharps Messers I have will be interesting to see. - Peter

We do actually have a colour coding in place at my club, but it does not extend to weapons. When we standardized our gear back in the day we decided that we would only wear black socks and pants, while shirts and jackets would have to be blue. Masks should have a black cover and no painting on the grill. We later softened that a bit to allow for some blue or black highlights and generally try to be reasonable. If you already have gear when joining our club you can keep using it, and if there is an offer that does fit your budget but not really our colour-scheme, we can usually work things out. SO I would not HAVE to get my shoes or gloves with blue on them, but it fits the rest. Same goes for grips or sheaths etc :). That being, I am limited by my abilities somewhat but mostly I do not really have a proper workspace in my flat to do an actual re-wrap or make a proper new grip. So to make the Kvetun grip thicker I just used a grip band I knew worked well enough, and that happened to be black. Now that you mention it I could have put in a little extra effort to make it blue too :D. Well as soon as the current is worn out I guess. - Peter

@@die.freifechter I'm happy to hear about clubs building their own traditions and "esprit de corps". 👍

If by "a page on Tessak of Norway" you mean the blogpost by Keith Cotter-Reilly of the Atlanta Historical Fencing Academy (fencingatl.com/blog/2018/8/9/the-tessak-of-norway), then that is the page I used and referenced for this video and linked to in the description. (It is a really nice article) I also go through which type the Dorothea is and where it stands in the average taken from measurements of complete examples. From talking to LE, they made the Dorothea a type G because that they like the type, and it is what they wanted to make. Taste is subjective of course, theirs usually aligns pretty well with mine, so I am biased, but I do not see a problem with that approach. I like the type G, because it is pretty versatile. It can fit a number of contexts just fine. As for why the Dussack was so popular in Norway, as far as I am aware it pretty much boils down to "They were available". To just quote Keith Cotter-Reilly: "In 1604 King Christian IV enacted the “Den norske Landslov”. This was an update of the Norwegian laws and was partially based on the earlier laws put in place by Magnus VI Lagebøte's. A part of this law was the requirement of all farmers to own weapons in accordance with the size of their properties. Starting in the late 1580s King Christian IV had already been importing swords from Germany to supply at cost to his Norwegian subjects and with this law the importation was widely expanded. The most popular weapon was the Tessak (also known as Dussack, Dussage, etc)." - Peter

@@die.freifechter I remembered seeing you with the Dorothea a while back, so I skipped to final thoughts since I wanted to find out if there were any problems after using it for so long (but not expecting any). I still need to see (and I will) parts of this video. But when I heard you saying that you like it, I immediately felt like bashing a little LE. 😅Not because I don't like them (I love my sharp Gottfried messer with a walnut grip and a CC1 pommel option; your video from years back was partly responsible with going for that model), but because I think they make excellent stuff and I want them to make what I like. You and LE are too selfish talking and making things you like, you should be more generous, like me, and look at the things I like. 😄 In all honesty, years back, when I saw the Dorothea, I thought it was a fantasy design. I wasn't looking at dussacks, so I never thought twice about it. When I found out, only last week, that it's actually historical, my jaw dropped. And yes, indeed, I do mean that blog. I think I saw it before, but only last week I started looking for dussacks, re-found the blog and the digital museum, and things came as a revelation to me (which is also why I got back here). I saw Björn Rüther on one of his videos use a type F trainer, I believe. So I do wonder why LE is not making a sharp version of that (and a trainer combo). I think it would be very popular (well, it's not like their messer production is standing still). But in all seriousness, slight preferences amplified for comedic effect aside, it's nothing wrong with type G. I do think that a type H would be better for gloves (one without a knuckle bow and with just a shell guard on the side; why I mentioned I associate it with the Italians, it has that aesthetic to it), but that's more a HEMA consideration true for all closed guards around the hand. P.S. Don't think for a second that I don't like your content because I didn't see this video in full. I usually come back to it when I want to search for an opinion on a particular product (e.g. I don't care about cavalry trousers now, but when I need to buy a new pair, I'll sure see the video for info what Spes is doing as a company, if not the model per se). Keep up the good work! 👍

@@die.freifechter I don't know how the algorithm counts consecutive comments, but here I go... I've finished watching your video and cannot believe that all my comments were already addressed in your video. 😅 Including the fact that I would prefer the Antonia because its blade and grip combination are such a good design. 👍

Well, I do not know what YT thinks about them, but we sure appreciate them :) Thank you very much for the kind words, and thank you for taking my initial reply in good spirit. I fear I might have come of a little confrontational, but I was honestly just a little confused :D. I get the feeling of having your mind blown discovering the Norwegian Dussacks. I certainly felt like mine was. For the longest time (too long really in hindsight), I just thought of them as the leather or wooden things in Meyer. And I agree, it WOULD be nice to have more Dussack trainers out there, and I am sure LE could make another great one. The good news is that if you want them to make one, they are generally available for customs (Though admittedly I am not sure if at the moment, because of the whole mystery of steel they had to solve) and that COULD turn into a model of theirs. ...It worked for the Antonia (Which is like advising you to play the lottery because it worked for me, I know). - Peter

@@die.freifechter Don't worry about your reply, it was 100% OK. But now that you mention it, I cannot believe that I mentioned in my comment "unless you study Meyer, and for you dussacks are pieces of wood and leather" and you literarily addressed this point as well. 😅 So take my entire comment before watching the video as a clear sign that you are in perfect sync with your audience. 😇 I for one, am mainly studying Bolognese sidesword (I understood it's annoying to use a messer against it, because a sidesword with a simple side-port ring can be used as a longer messer). But I like messers, and I just started to look at dussacks. So I was/am gathering as much info on them. I think there's still some debate if in English we should call the sharp ones Tessaks and keep Dussacks for trainers, but I think that's a false debate. It's akin to debating between calling a curved sword a Sabre or a Szabla; same thing, different language. And at this point, the term Dussack is rooted in. But one does need to be aware of the term Tessaks, because that's what the Norwegian museums use as a precise designation (then again, the digital museum classifies the type as a "Thing"; what would I do without scientific rigour, I would have never found out that a Tessak is a thing 🤣). But hey, so many pictures! For now, LE still has the no custom jobs sign on their page. And I have 5 other sparring pieces on order with other makers, with 3 more to place (I'm going wild since I was a more antique and sharps collector, and now I am focusing more on learning fencing). After that, at least a year in the future (that's what you do when you have different hobbies that compete for your money), I think I'll plan 2 sharps and 2 trainers from LE. And I will try to convince them at that time to make me the dussack I want (either a type F or a simpler H; I will learn more until then). Looking at some custom LE pieces that others people on RUclips have, they should find a way to increase production and expand, because they are fantastic at bringing great designs to fruition. And you, keep interacting with them, and never say no to accepting a piece from them at no cost (blue handle or otherwise 😉). We need the reviews! 😇

As they say: "If it fits like a duck"... - Peter

Thank you :) Ulrik designed it. - Peter

Is there any chance to get it?

The T-Shirt I mean....😊

@@TRist-ec9mm Hey there, so far we only did a small order in our club, but if more people are interested, we might set up a redbubble or smth. :) - Cheers, Ulrik

@@die.freifechter Well, I definitely would be interested. I could ask my fellow-fencers at Fechtboden here in Munich, maybe someone else wants to join.

Part of the reason is that this was an experiment to see if the Messer techniques would work against a much longer and heavier sword. The goal was not to see if the montante has better reach it can use to its advantage, because that is quite obvious. Also you have to consider that Ulrik is actively closing the distance. He is actively trying to get much closer as quick as possible. - Peter

Don't make me want a sharp one! - Peter

@@die.freifechter I mean ... Let's just say I gave it to an expert in Iaido and he wanted one

*grumble* - Peter

Yes, we are eagerly awaiting the curved blades. Had them pre-ordered when he tried to release them the first time, but then Russia destroyed the factories. - Peter

​​@@die.freifechter Booooo!!! Dammit Russia!

It really is, but I might be biased :) - Peter

Ok, don't laugh, but when I ordered my sharp Gottfried (such a good-looking blade) from Landsknecht Emporium, I was looking to buy a Karl. I asked them if I could have the wide fuller profile, like on the blunt. They mentioned no, the sharp has a flat blade. So the trainer has a more "real" looking blade than the sharp. 😅 I ended up getting the Gottfried and I have zero regrets! But for a trainer, a Karl makes more sense to me. 👍

Well... what feels real really is a rather subjective thing, no? I think, to a degree, exposure play into it. By now I have seen enough originals, online or in person, that, as long as it is a blade that fulfills its purpose, I would call it "real". (Though what makes a sword as a whole "real" can actually be a surprisingly philosophical question). We have surviving training swords, at least for longswords, rapiers and smallswords as far as I am aware, and these are real too. Their blades just were designed to fulfill a different purpose and thus looked different. You cannot really make a blade look like a sharp and have it survive the rigours of regular training. Sharp blades were not designed for that kind of abuse. You can make it close, but that generally means you have to compromise. That is how you get blunts that look "real" at a first glance, but handle like bricks. And even within a category, there are multiple ways to achieve a goal. Some trainers have a dumbbell design to then, some have no fullers at all and are rather square. Same goes for sharps. I have several sharp swords by Ádám (that I still need to make videos on), that all have very different designs. Some have fullers, some don't. tl;dr: It's complicated and often a very subjective thing :) - Peter

@@die.freifechter I think that's 100% subjective. Which is why we need to keep "real" in quotes. :) Two things more that I would like to add: 1. I noted that people in general seem to prefer blades that have some geometry to them, a fuller, a wide fuller that looks like a depression in the blade, or a ridge, a ricasso portion even on a blunt, just something to look at. Anything but flat, and if it's flat, it better to have some interesting etchings or gilding. 2. People seem to start liking even outliers (e.g. flat blades, or even asymmetrical sides with fuller only on one side and the like) once they understand their function. That translates into a deeper appreciation of that particular blade (e.g. in this case, thin flat blades are really great at cutting with little resistance; no surprise there, we don't shave with axes after all). And when it comes to trainers, I think that getting a functional trainer that feels good and looks good is where the art lies. Keep the weight and proportions like on a sharp, but get a 2mm safe edge while giving me a look for the blade I find appealing, that all is quite impressive in my book. People like LE and others are good at that, and we see the overall quality of makers getting better.

@@die.freifechter Please videos on sharps soon! 🤤 P.S. Without divulging anything you know via your personal private means, is the reason why LE has stopped doing custom jobs and even removed the custom's gallery a result of Ádám moving on to doing his own custom work? To my vague knowledge, Ádám still works with LE in some capacity. It's just that LE is focusing on keeping up with the production line, while Ádám is doing all the crazy projects he wants (bollocks on swords, seriously? 😅... btw, echoing a previous discussion, on the same FB post of his, we can see the glimpse of a dussack hilt being made in a style I like).

Well, I think there are several things coming together here. I do not want to speak for them of course, but simply put, Ádám is still with LE, and I am not aware of that changing. He just, somehow (?!?), manages to do his personal project on top of the sometimes frankly insane hours they pull at the shop. They are slowly but surely clawing their way out of a big backlog, caused by number of bad luck incidents. Most famously there was the "riddle of steel" they had to try and solve, where, according to the lab tests, everything about their formed, filed and hardened blades was fine, but they kept bending and not returning true. (I sometimes feel like bladesmiths, collectively, must have some of the worst lucks of any profession, with how often I seem to read about people having to deal with breaking equipment at the worst of times.) That lead to them deciding to put a stop on custom LE projects for now, so that they could focus on finishing the ones still in the making and getting that backlog down. (And yes, I know what guard you are talking about.) - Peter

Spear come in all shapes and sizes, there really is no "wrong" with them. Also it's about technique, not size - your mileage may vary.

There is always a risk in martial arts, no doubt, but we minimize them best we can. When Ulrik and I fence like this, we only do it with people we know are save, and we start much slower than what you can see in this video. We only fence like you can see in this video, because we have known and fenced each other for years and acknowledge the risk in it. - Peter