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If you meditate or practice any part of a pagan religion, you open yourself to demons attachment that translates in the science realm to psychosis episodes. The path to healing and peace is in Abrahamic religions, and the more monotheistic and ideologically cohesive the religion is, the better the results in peace and security mentally, emotionally and physically. I recommend Islam, but hey, research for yourself. Practising true monotheism “not three in one kind of deal” doesn’t prevent suffering in life, but your roots will be much more solid. It will mitigate any ordeal because you choose the right way to connect with your true one and only creator aided by a discerning belief system, surrounded by a congregation that is empathetic to your needs and alive with common big, well-defined aspirations for this life and after. Unlike the Pagan religion, which has scattered infinite gods, amorphous visions, and inspirations, it theoretically works well for the secular world as it does not demand a lot of conformity. You can “pick and choose” if you want to practice some of it and leave others, but it is detrimental to human nature. Human nature is wired for conformity, like the Ants empire, especially in the spiritual realm, more than in the practical civilian realm. Pagan religions and philosophies like Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism might spread a message that you can pick and choose any parts and leave as you wish. But in reality, once these demons attach to you, you only have two options: severe mental illness or diving deep into practising and exploring Paganism and Shamanism while still suffering from mental illness, a lack of emotional and spiritual security and a lack of solid societal support. As a result, you will be forced to conform, but you will conform to the confused and unsettled way of life due to confused indefinite visions that will multiply the effect of any downfall you will face. Even if millions believe in the same indefinite visions as you do, you will have a weak societal connection. It is like having a common language with indefinite letters, and everyone unlocks words and sounds every day; there will be no common language and ground. And believe me, having unlimited letters and sounds in a language is much less detrimental to the individual psyche than unlimited gods, visions, and aspirations.

If you meditate or practice any part of a pagan religion, you open yourself to demons attachment that translates in the science realm to psychosis episodes. The path to healing and peace is in Abrahamic religions, and the more monotheistic and ideologically cohesive the religion is, the better the results in peace and security mentally, emotionally and physically. I recommend Islam, but hey, research for yourself. Practising true monotheism doesn’t prevent suffering in life, but your roots will be much more solid. It will mitigate any ordeal because you choose the right way to connect with your true one and only creator aided by a discerning belief system, surrounded by a congregation that is empathetic to your needs and alive with common big, well-defined aspirations for this life and after. Unlike the Pagan religion, which has scattered infinite gods, amorphous visions, and inspirations, it theoretically works well for the secular world as it does not demand a lot of conformity. You can “pick and choose” if you want to practice some of it and leave others, but it is detrimental to human nature. Human nature is wired for conformity, like the Ants empire, especially in the spiritual realm, more than in the practical civilian realm. Pagan religions and philosophies like Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism might spread a message that you can pick and choose any parts and leave as you wish. But in reality, once these demons attach to you, you only have two options: severe mental illness or diving deep into practising and exploring Paganism and Shamanism while still suffering from mental illness, a lack of emotional and spiritual security and a lack of solid societal support. As a result, you will be forced to conform, but you will conform to the confused and unsettled way of life due to confused indefinite visions that will multiply the effect of any downfall you will face. Even if millions believe in the same indefinite visions as you do, you will have a weak societal connection. It is like having a common language with indefinite letters, and everyone unlocks words and sounds every day; there will be no common language and ground. And believe me, having unlimited letters and sounds in a language is much less detrimental to the individual psyche than unlimited gods, visions, and aspirations.

This is precious! Should be shown at the beginning of every meditation teaching or retreat. Thank you so much. 99% of Western teachers have no clue about this, it's scary!

If someone was injected with a chemical and became a wolf person they would say it was the chemical injected that made that happen. The person who becomes the wolf person might have thought they were participating to feel ‘wolfness’ temporarily but not realised they would be chemically altered. Meditation is chemical altering and its function is to change your biology. In a healthy context this biology remains altered and grows in balance with you. There is no conflict. But expectation to want to be altered and to seek alteration and maybe even be aware of what others experience can set up the conditions of an intensity that is sort of like being injected. Group meditation can do this if you do not know your own practice first. But meditation is not something you acquire like doing it a lot makes you better and better because it is not your decisions that are involved it’s your body wants you to chemically change and it’s your body that makes the decisions. For the West this is not a programme easily followed because to learn is created as intention by systems. Systems are designed by the mind. Your body will teach you meditation safely but the West does not offer the environment for the body to speak to the mind. Offices, schools, roads, town planning are not made to support the body but to create function that the body has to fit into. People instinctively feel out of balance and seek meditation as a method for peace. But it is a method to change you chemically and biologically and permanently. How you see how you think how you feel how you are programmed if not in tune with your body could become like a takeover. That tension between what you thought was going to happen and what you get can be like an overdose because to change without the body leading means all the dosages are unbalanced. I think the best way is to just feel how your body feels get to know your body. Just by yourself with no one to distract or guide you become your own guide not matter how long that takes. If it takes all your life then it does 1 life time in what is really timeless existence is no time at all.

I am currently a practicing Buddhist nun and I have experienced many of the negative side effects that Willoughby talks about that lasted for years..they were triggered both by tai chi and meditation practices, including various altered states of awareness, impaired functioning, involuntary movements that lasted hours a day, panic attacks, physical side effects, pain etc.. I didnt have any support or anyone who could give me satisfactory answers until i came across my current teacher, a Burmese monk, who i have now ordained under. When i first asked him about my problems, he told me i had wrong understanding. He did not tell me what right understanding was at that time. From other questions i asked, i felt that he was very present in answering me, not answering from intellectual knowledge but from a place of deep understanding, So i went to stay in his meditation center to learn more. And indeed his presence and his teachings helped to to understand my experiences in the right way, and they went away. My panic attack disappeared completely, and since then has never been a problem for me. The feelings, emotions, and physical sensations might still arise every now and again for a few seconds, but it doesn't last. If one understands them in the right way, they do not feed on themselves, and therefore have nothing to latch onto, they disappear. So basically I very much agree with the Dalai Lamas response that right understanding and context is actually the thing that helps to deal with these problems, so that they arise much less, and if they do arise, it is actually the key helping the problem go away. Also living with a strong grounding in morality is super important, and having a sangha. Yes I understand there were experienced meditation teachers having trouble, but just because they have been meditating for a long time, it doesnt necessarily mean they have right understanding in a broader context of Buddhism. Why we meditate and our expectations are also very important. In the west we have definitely taken something that is very powerful out of context, and tried to use it for our own gain, which is the opposite of what meditation is about. When goenka came to learn vipassana to get rid of his migraines, the teacher refused to teach him, he said no, go away. If you want to learn vipassana, your goal should be for enlightenment. So yes, Willoughby's work is very valuable. To make people aware of possible negative side effects, but we do need to research a lot more into the causes and solutions to these problems from a Buddhist perspective, from great masters. The dalai lama doesnt have the time to go into it in detail, so he gives the answer that he can give, and encourages us to continue the work of research. If we want to take on these Buddhist practices, the responsibility is on us to do it responsibly with proper research and right intentions, and a proper foundation.. Not just come crying when its gone wrong. That being said, a lot of people are already experiencing challenges, and of course we need to make sure we are learning how to deal with this, and have enough supportive systems in place. I dont think the answer is just don't meditate, or do retreats.. People will do them, because many people do get benefit. And also yes, what is termed negative or positive can change according to context. Social context, family context, work etc.. And even in our own interpretation. Even we can change how we experience certain effects.. They might be good for a while, but then after some time we might want it to go away. Or they might not last long and we crave for them to come back.

Based on my experience, For Western meditation teacher, If someone is beginner , never let them start a meditation with closed eyes and instead teach them to do meditation with 45 degree open eyes and focus on breathing. For initial few months, 2 to 3 mins meditation in morning and evening is enough for a beginner. Then slowly, then they increase the time session after months of practice. The foundation of meditation should be made on open eyes meditation on breathing because with close eyes, as a human we tend to see lots of illusion or visual. Now, a people will medical condition directly starting with closed eyes meditation will tend to throw them more into illusion. These are the very similar symptoms, the lady researcher is discussing with Dalai Lama.

I think a big problem is this practise of self-inquiry, where practitioners are encourage to look at whatever is arising in their field of consciousness and ask 'is that me'? To which the answer is supposed to be 'no' as how can you be the thing that is being observed, right? This is problematic I think, it disconnects people with the things that makes them human - body sensations, sense data, thoughts, memories etc. I feel like this is a teaching that is particularly dangerous, as it encourages disconnection and apathy - rather than the sense of interconnectedness and equanimity that should be arising from spiritual practise. There's a world of difference between feeling like you and the world don't exist, and feeling like you and the world are the same single entity.

DL seemed to not be familiar with the negative potential outcomes. I think the giggling and such was a coping mechanism like the tics he started to engage in (rocking back and forth). In the end he said that Dr Willoughy's work was important and everyone starting out in meditation should be informed of the potential negative outcomes before they start. That is my takeaway.

😉👍🏾

I started doing a meditation called self inquiry and the last couple of days I been doing it more with a fixed gaze or closed eyes and this morning my anxiety and blood pressure went off the roof and started to shake badly and I felt like I was freaking out. Is it the mediation for sure? I had to do the knee and shoulder tapping in order to calm down some right now.

It sounds like science can't accurately measure what is going on in meditation. It also sound like these meditators are having a very productive mediation experiences but possibly not useful to western work values. It sounds meditation isn't for medical intervention or medical solutions in the west but should be focused more spiritual evolution.

Meditation ruined my life. I’m Indian and always told meditation will fix all my issues and it absolutely destroyed my mental health

I’m about to get into a somewhat heavy meditation practice, but I don’t want to reach some enlightened state or whatever mystical experiences or consciousness people want to achieve. Personally I want to get as close to the edge of that without actually going over it. I guess you could call that the middle way. I’m conscious that the current world and location I live in doesn’t suit the effects of someone going all in. I’ve never seen these videos about the dangers of meditation but now Im gonna be cautious and tip toe my way to my desired state of being with meditation.

The dalai lama gave sound advice and encourages objective research. Dr Britton is doing good work in bringing this understanding of meditation and its different aspects to westerners.

Pedophiles

My reacton to the Lama leader is revealing, similar to others here. The west has so much more liberty to choose what we want to try, w/o hardly any safe guards, warnings shown in the public eye. From his response, ancient eastern culture is far better, it shows - the west is irresponsible: education is lacking , some level of personal mental stability is needed, also a goal. Meditation becomes a way of life [like a religion]. Westerners are not taught about these requirements so as to have a better experience. It's no wonder Dr. Willoughby, a caring lady, [breaking through a world dominated by men] is very concerned about the truth, and she is sounding the alarm. Enlightened Women are rising up!!! ❤❤❤🙏💥

I was deeply involved with the Dzogchen, Nyingma,, Mahayana school of Tibetan Buddhism for many years. Even teaching. Victim blaming is only the half of it. Worse is when adverse events are reframed as positive spiritual advancement. And the many schools, including HHDL, touting dysfunction as progress. The Dalai Lama behaves very disappointingly in this video, and he seems oblivious that he is confirming for all that meditation schools do not take adverse events seriously. My personal experience was that the teachings and the meditation was wonderful... until it wasn't. Dissociative experiences that last a decade are not something to laugh about and say "study harder". I'm glad Cheetah House has posted this video for future generations to see for themselves.

It’s all about balance, I am lazy at meditation , yet in 2009 my connection to consciousness heightened , I loved it , but I was still lazy and felt guilty that I still didn’t do the ‘spiritual work’ despite the gifts spirit gave me, now days I am learning to accept this is who I am and if spirit needs to contact me fine, I am here🤪 I still get guidance , just much more subtle now , but wow 2009 was awesome 👍🛸

From my reading, and practice, the experiences that she is reporting are typical. Many great practicioners of the past had similar experiences. What did these meditation teachers expect? However, it's always, "After enlightenment, time to do the dishes."

I was taught that whatever coming out of your mouth are just thoughts so you should stop, note the thinking and move on. This lead to an endless cycle of noting and resulting in the inability to form long contiguous thoughts. The act of day dreaming or thinking in long periods became non-existent and life became dark, almost futile. Becoming ocd about thinking about thinking. I'm still struggling but have stopped meditation all together but still struggle with this question. Headspace is the app I used that started working in concepts of self and all of this bullshit. I'm honestly fucking pissed at that because all I was trying to do was become a better person. I thought meditation would allow me to become a better more efficient version of myself, not this confused person worrying about free-will and thoughts.

wow. I've never heard of so many of these. So validating and revelatory! I've been experiencing so many of these chronically for the last few years since meditation experience. I feel this way all the time though, so it doesn't feel temporary. Is that still considered temporary with potential to heal even though it's been so many years? Is this normal?

Thank you ❤

Thank you Willoughby! You are the first person I've heard speak about this. ❤

❤ Willoughby for sharing these videos & starting Cheetah house

The conversation sounded as if its usefulness was hampered by a lack of mutual comprehension, or perhaps lack of sufficient common ground. The negative side effects of meditation sound an awful lot like neurological issues for the most part, tho' "psychological" or "psychiatric" might be terms applied to some of the symptoms - but it all sounded like processes going on in the neurons which the meditator accidentally triggered. To say it was their fault just sounds like incomprehension: how could expectations trigger involuntary movements? How could lack of understanding the foundations of a meditative practice cause one to forget the meaning of red traffic lights? I've meditated for 15 years and experience three or four effects that obviously are not intended zazen, and my understanding and background, my expectations have nothing to do with them. My vision fills with washes of intense color that, if they didn't disperse at the end of a sitting, would disable my vision, my body fills with sensations of electrical tingling and sometimes of floating, and my cognition slows to a trickle. I've no idea what restores me to normal at the end - it certainly isn't my understanding of zazen that does it! If those effects persisted, I would be disabled. If some people experience any of what I do for years after a sitting, it's worthy of scientific inquiry! I doubt any suttas or sutras have anything useful to say to help one so disabled. Oh, and I can hear my blood flowing and feel the pulse of my heart throughout my body, sometimes for hours or day but it doesn't bother me - I learned to ignore it. It's neurology, not metaphysics.

Terrific research you are revealing.

Psychiatric drugs are extremely dangerous. if one gets schizophrenic, from a form of meditation, they should avoid the pseudo medical psychiatry which can create a medication-induced disability for life. Those drugs prolong psychosis from something transient in most cases to something reoccurring. Along with milder mental distress like depression.

This is a wise lady and an ignorant Dalai lama.

TY LOGICAL SOUND ADVICE....GREAT JOB!!

Dr. Willoughby Britton is being very truthful here. Very surprising how accurate she is about the experiences. (I've experienced the adverse effects she is describing. It was accidental.) Much love for Willoughby!

This is the ignorance and materialistic outcome based culture of western lifestyle. Transactional expectation from an age-old practice that was never meant to provide such quick answers. If we play with the cultural conditionings and try to unravel the so-called Mind, we are bound to find the hodge-podge of repressed emotions, and feelings resurfacing with all kinds of experiences people have described. These side-effects have always been known in the eastern society. I have read that there have been cases where people have gone mad as well! The problem here is though western society is trying to quickly mimic and digest something which they have NOT fully understood. Thats what Dalai Lama is also trying to convey... This is supposedly the hardest way of living and the idealistic viewpoint is with a final goal (if we can say any) of transcending the human body mind complex and anything associated with it. Not to gain better relationships, happy feelings, more cognitive powers to be successful, famous in life whatever that means in the current way of the world (and now both eastern and western societies are consumeristic and capitalistic)! In addition no one knows that such states can be ever-lasting (goes against the concept of Impermanence!!) As someone said, there is no similar social structure supporting these people in the west. Eastern side we have had age-old ashramas or centers where people can live a monastic life (not that it is greater or better life). After all, what will we do with ALL the Enlightened people? Live life of a Warrior in a sense, understanding there is NO permanence, or perfection. Associate with the world for a normal functioning of survival of the body and certain activities, but NEVER get possessive. Go through the vicissitudes of life with truly an open mind and heart. Whatever has to blossom will do, rest is Maya.

Dalai Lama doesn't know what he's talking about. He has a cognitive understanding of the path only. Trauma likes to hide more than anything else. Derealization and dissociative states can be understood and managed and worked through.

I'm 54 and I've experienced emotional blunting, sporadic movements and lack of thoughts since meditating (mindfulness). Can these issues be rectified?

Thanks for posting. I did meditation with an official Tibetan Buddhist group when I was 20. There was none of the study and grounding his holiness is talking about here, it was straight to complex meditations, partitioning your mind into various stances concurrently. It contributed to a period of mental ill health and I've never fully recovered from messing around with my mind in that way. Good to see a discussion about it, disappointing to hear him say it's the victims' fault.

Just stick with the Buddhists, they know this stuff.

IIn Tibet, meditators were able to find masters who had been trained for many years and were very experienced in meditation, with whom they could discuss any problems that arose with their meditation practice. Today in the West this one-to-one support is often completely missing and there are often no experienced meditation masters who could be asked. Fortunately, Buddhism has grown very quickly in the West and that has led to this phenomenon. Of course, something that has a strong effect can also have side effects. It's a shame that these old gentlemen are taking this very urgent problem so lightly and the students haven't read and informed themselves enough. This macho group affected me with their lack of empathy for those seriously affected.

I don't know much of it, but have heard that there have been people who had "meditated wrongly" and had "adverse effects" i.e have "gone mad". So from learning about this, I realized I have to meditate carefully and moderately. especially with carefulness and caution and mindfulness. This knowing of there being a risk in extreme meditation or wrong meditation is not known fully in society, which seems to be the problem. There is also the fact that people are extremely different from one another, and some their minds could react in a other than normal way to a meditation practice.

it is not a widely discussed topic; This research is important to understand what can "go wrong" with meditation. but there has to be reasons, as not everyone suffers accidents from meditating and finds it a positive experience. So there is a need to know what went wrong, in behavior or in the latent psychology. pointing the finger wholly on meditation implies that meditation is dangerous and alienates new people from it. It is a known thing that buried emotions, traumas, memories may surface during meditation and cause a challenge to meditator (in those that research this topic). but importantly need to know what was the specific case, why did it happen, what was the person's psychology and memory like, and what did the person do to get that outcome.

Really appreciate ur work and professional direction dr britton. I've personally never had a debilitating reaction to different practices but the questions you're asking (and helping others to ask) are so important. Injecting the scientific method and unapologetic critical thought into these existential/theological ideas& practices is so uncommon it caught me by surprise that i hadn't really seen this level of scrutiny. In actuality it should be common. Unfortunately this will largely be seen as threatening to different people's worldviews so just wanted to leave a comment saying I'm glad i found ur work. Honestly i didn't even know there were people out there organizing assistance to help people through various phenomena that we largely don't understand. Take care, wish u peace and continued satisfaction & fulfillment

5:54 to 6:30 “There’s no me that’s moving the body.” Isn’t this true in the sense that we don’t create our thoughts; they’re simply products of our programming (biology + conditioning)? Impressions (value thoughts or judgments of good, bad, and indifferent) appear in consciousness based on our experience and moods.

Its interesting how similar the effects of meditation and psychedelics are.

This is exactly my experience with meditation! So incredibly well described!

Lack of empathy seems to be another harmful effect of meditation. Typical response of blaming the meditator. Stock answer, "you're doing it wrong". Maybe he needs a new translator because he doesn't seem to understand that she's talking about experienced meditation teachers, not beginners who are just doing it wrong.

Shifting my goal to creating stability and engagement in my life, rather than seeking "peace and enlightenment" (which was actually escapism and avoidance)..... I can finally work towards getting my life back on track after 5 years... I turned 30 years old recently, I feel both sad that I'm not where I thought I'd be, but also really grateful that this hasn't persisted even longer.

His Holy Pedophile !

Thanks for your effort. It's crucial to have clarity regarding the purpose of meditation, specifically the intended intermediary goals rather than fixed expectations. For me, meditation serves as a tool for comprehending the workings of the mind, including thoughts and feelings, as well as discerning judgment within those thoughts. Additionally, it aids in identifying desires and serves as a tool for embarking on a spiritual and philosophical journey, all while acknowledging that the prime feature of meditation is cultivating equanimity, without rigidly attaching to specific outcomes.

Wow, doctor, you were pretty respectful, kind and humble. This man don't see you as a humanidade, much less as a peer, and he is sorrounded by other men and interrupting and challeging you all the time. You brougt a legit concern andall he did was minimize you. You were só brave... And now, the image of the Dalai Lama is not more than of a pedofile, and you were there confronting him while everyone just could see saintute in him. Forgive my english, it is not my first language.

If it is mostly young people having problems - this would be because they have no clue in terms of what they are trying to do when they are told to meditate. People need to clearly learn/understand what exactly meditation is, and what one is trying to do in meditation before they ever begin to meditate. I think Jon Kabat-Zinn's (8-week) program does a good job of this.

Dr. Willoughy: <"People are experiencing insight into the arising and passing away of phenomena."> HHDL: <(Chuckling)> Dr. Willoughby: <"They are realizing that all phenomena is non-arising and not self."> HHDL: <(Smiling)> Dr. Willoughby: <"And these realizations are lasting beyond the meditation session! How can we fix this?"> HHDL: <"Listen, study, and contemplate so you understand the path and know what to expect. Follow the map, don't try without a map or you'll get lost in meditation.">

The take away is meditation can be a powerful practice with major effects and should not be practiced without proper guidance. Proper guidance is very difficult to find or to discern. In my experience it’s a tricky thing and only one in a thousand meditators possess the proper motivation and mindset to even attempt walking the path of liberation. As far as meditation for health benefit goes I would recommend not to do it at all. There is only one proper reason to meditate- to achieve spiritual liberation. One should not do this without an experienced guide and full practice including hearing and reading teachings for context.